And here we have Tucker Carlson helping to spread more misinformation to help Fox news create more Vaccine Hesitation.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-ca ... -the-truth

“Between late December of 2020 and last month, a total of 3,362 people apparently died after getting the COVID vaccine in the United States,” Carlson exclaimed. “That is an average of roughly 30 people every day. So, what does that add up to? By the way, that reporting period ended on April 23, and we don’t have numbers past that.”

After repeatedly suggesting that the vaccines are responsible for thousands of deaths by pointing to the VAERS system, Carlson then brought on Harvard Medical School professor Martin Kulldorf to discuss the database and the accuracy of the numbers.

Can anyone explain why Fox news would allow such dishonorable and misleading lead ins?

Should Fox news be considered a public health threat?

dtw2hyd wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

We KNOW that there is little risk to being outdoors and catching the virus. The only exception (as Ive said repeatedly here) is being in large crowds. So yes, wearing a mask outdoors when youre not in a crowd is not based on science, but emotion. If you want to do it, fine. You just cant claim its for a factual reason.

"When you're outside, fresh air is constantly moving, dispersing these droplets. So you're less likely to breathe in enough of the respiratory droplets containing the virus that causes COVID-19 to become infected. And if you’re fully vaccinated, you can be outside without wearing a mask unless you’re somewhere that has a high risk of COVID-19 transmission, such as at a crowded event."

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... t-20489385

That if you go by CDC's just droplet theory, ignoring aerosols. Public health is not a legal proceeding to selectively admit evidence.

There was a case in Canada two families of 6 spent two hours in the backyard, All 6 +ve one ICU.
Entire Indian second wave carnage started from outdoor events.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

...
And yes of course the group that refuses to get vaccinated is a much bigger problem.

What are you going to do? Complain on social media but gamble your own health. If a driver in opposite traffic jumps the median, your immediate reaction is to avoid, not to hold steering firm, even if it is not your fault.

I dont do social media so that isnt it.

There is nothing you can do. This isnt a case of people who can simply steer out of the way to avoid a collision because in that scenario you have the power to do something. In this scenario we do not have the power to force people to get vaccines. You can talk to a hesitant friend to try to convince them but thats the extent of it.

As for the CDC, theyve been yelling the sky is falling for the last several months. They are over-reactionary much more so than anything else. Look at Texas. We were told we were on the verge of something catastrophic by everyone. We reopened and cases fell. A big reason for that is probably because now we do spend more time outdoors instead of at home.

As for being outdoors, yeah the Indian wave started from CROWDED outdoor events. Thats the catch. If youre in a crowd outdoors, its still good to wear a mask. But if youre simply outdoors and there is a few people scattered here and there, the statistics show youre at low risk.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

You can talk to a hesitant friend to try to convince them but thats the extent of it.

It doesn't work that way with anti-vaxxers. The more you explain, the deep they dig their heels. Every minute and dollar spent on convincing them is wasted.

The current media blitz is actually scaring those are on the fence.

Better to spend this effort on efficient way to deliver vaccines.

LAXdude1023 wrote:

As for the CDC

I personally don't trust CDC guidance.

Initial don't wear mask guidance was based lack of supply for healthcare workers. Not based on science.
3-ft for in-seat students has no scientific reasoning. Study was based on only wild-type, only droplets. MIT study disproves the study CDC used.
CDC followed TX,FL mask mandate lift.
The day after Tucker Carlson told his followers to call CPS on kids with mask, CDC lifted the mask mandate.

Did Tucker Carlson join CDC board??

On CNN in the last hour there was an interview with the leader of a new moms forum in FL - completely ridiculous. She was saying they had to impose rules for their discussions because anti-vaxxers were spreading disinformation and starting charged arguments with other women who reported getting vaccinated. Among the disinformation were wild claims that receiving the vaccine causes infertility and harms fetuses in the womb. Just crazy - people believe whatever pundits and quacks say, and don’t ask their own doctors.

It's insane. A family member is in hospital in Romania, with COVID-19 with fairly serious complications (diabetes). This individual refused to take the vaccine. Social media is to blame for these insane "Anti-Vaxxers". Social Media will be the downfall of modern societies. It gave every idiot a voice.

Aaron747 wrote:

On CNN in the last hour there was an interview with the leader of a new moms forum in FL - completely ridiculous. She was saying they had to impose rules for their discussions because anti-vaxxers were spreading disinformation and starting charged arguments with other women who reported getting vaccinated. Among the disinformation were wild claims that receiving the vaccine causes infertility and harms fetuses in the womb. Just crazy - people believe whatever pundits and quacks say, and don’t ask their own doctors.

Speaking of Florida, here's a case of a private school in Miami telling its teachers to "stay away" from students if they received the COVID vaccine.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/26/us/f ... ccine.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/02/us/m ... ccine.html

kalvado wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

LAXdude1023 wrote:

You can talk to a hesitant friend to try to convince them but thats the extent of it.

It doesn't work that way with anti-vaxxers. The more you explain, the deep they dig their heels. Every minute and dollar spent on convincing them is wasted.

Problem of this approach is that you assume there is only one way to look at things, and that is your way.
Which is often not very true, people tend to make mistakes.

I respect your opinion.

While chasing the anti-vaxxers, we are losing focus on several things.
1) Find better easier and cheaper ways to deliver vaccine. Nasal, Jet Injector..
2) Variants for new dominant strains..With limited production capacity, there will be a time to switch over production.
3) Combo vaccines
4) Next year vaccines.

If we want get ahead of the curve, stock estimated vaccines, move on to future proof. If still anti-vaxxers doesn't show, donate to other countries.

I'm not a religious person at all, I've had all my vaccines, right up to this point. Having said that, no way I'm getting the "jab" with an EUA vaccine. This is the first large scale use of mRNA vaccine technology on humans, show me a few years worth of data, and I'll reconsider. And absolutely no way I'll give it to my kids. We will pull them out of school, and home school if our district decides to require the vaccine.

AABusDrvr wrote:

I'm not a religious person at all, I've had all my vaccines, right up to this point. Having said that, no way I'm getting the "jab" with an EUA vaccine. This is the first large scale use of mRNA vaccine technology on humans, show me a few years worth of data, and I'll reconsider. And absolutely no way I'll give it to my kids. We will pull them out of school, and home school if our district decides to require the vaccine.

mRNA is a very short-lived and fragile molecule, that's part of the reason the vaccines have to be stored cold. Its job is normally just to go from the DNA to the ribosomes, code a protein, then get broken down again. It'd be very weird for it to cause long-term side effects.

AABusDrvr wrote:

I'm not a religious person at all, I've had all my vaccines, right up to this point. Having said that, no way I'm getting the "jab" with an EUA vaccine. This is the first large scale use of mRNA vaccine technology on humans, show me a few years worth of data, and I'll reconsider. And absolutely no way I'll give it to my kids. We will pull them out of school, and home school if our district decides to require the vaccine.

Not all Covid vaccines are mRNA. If that's what's holding you from doing it, you can seek one based on a more traditional technology, like all the ones you've had so far.

By the way, no scientist knows of any mechanism with mRNA that could potentially affect the human body years after being injected. It just isn't how it works.
You put stuff into your body on a daily basis that has not had a fraction of the scrutiny those vaccines have had so far, even just under the EUA.

The potential long term effects of contracting Covid, on the other hand, are becoming clearer and more sobering by the day...

AABusDrvr wrote:

I'm not a religious person at all, I've had all my vaccines, right up to this point. Having said that, no way I'm getting the "jab" with an EUA vaccine. This is the first large scale use of mRNA vaccine technology on humans, show me a few years worth of data, and I'll reconsider. And absolutely no way I'll give it to my kids. We will pull them out of school, and home school if our district decides to require the vaccine.

Except it's not 'new' technology - mRNA is a vital component of all cellular protein coding processes. The 'technology' is just a man-made way of tricking nature into doing its thing without having the actual virus in the body. That's all it is, nothing more. mRNA has no affect, short or long term, on your genetic makeup, whatsoever. Nearly all vaccine and genetic experts say the most significant risk from this type of vaccine is an acute inflammatory response. Even that will be short-lived, as our natural physiological processes break down the mRNA material that has been introduced to the body.

Have a look at this point in the summary here:

The use of mRNA has several beneficial features over subunit, killed and live attenuated virus, as well as DNA-based vaccines. First, safety: as mRNA is a non-infectious, non-integrating platform, there is no potential risk of infection or insertional mutagenesis. Additionally, mRNA is degraded by normal cellular processes, and its in vivo half-life can be regulated through the use of various modifications and delivery methods

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

Do you drink bottled water or eat processed food? I'd be much more wary of *that*, if you're truly concerned for your family's safety.

That adds one more to priority list for FDA, move these vaccines out of EUA limbo.

Well with the amount of people who got the Pfizer at least, it's more tested than most drugs that have been out decades.

stratosphere wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

luckyone wrote:

I, personally, have a problem with this some of this line of thought, particularly when it comes from conservatives. "Some people are going to die," and though certainly not universal but there were a few folks saying "old folks should be willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good." Ten or so years ago, during the big Obamacare debate, the cacophony coming from conservatives was "THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO FORM A DEATH SQUAD AND DECIDE THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DIE!"

??? It is everyone's choice now. The availability of vaccine totally changes the moral calculus. The vaccine works. There is no longer a reason to shut things down in the US.

Places like NY are opening pretty much immediately. It's over.

This is where they lost people too. The Democrats it's obvious want to drag out this crisis they are getting things they never would have gotten otherwise. A lot of conservative people see this and how the goalposts keep changing and gives conservatives more reason to distrust what is being said and mandated and encouraged vaccines being only one of them. Now the Democrats have figured out that by keeping these draconian measures in place with people who are fully vaccinated has backfired big time. You can't get people on board with getting this vaccine if they don't see any light at the end of the tunnel. What is the point of getting a vaccine if you're gonna make me wear a mask and keep away from others anyway.

Conservatives always distrust experts. This isn’t anything new. Studies have shown that conspiratorial thinking is much more prevalent among conservatives and this shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone considering the amount of crazy coming from the right. The funny thing is that they believe the government is this impenetrable pillar of evil and secrecy, yet some jobless nobody living in their moms basement has it ALL figured out. This lack of critical thinking is a major problem and has contributed a great deal to this mess.

Conservatives can distrust anyone they want I suppose. The problem is who they choose to believer over the highly qualified experts.

CitizenJustin wrote:

stratosphere wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

??? It is everyone's choice now. The availability of vaccine totally changes the moral calculus. The vaccine works. There is no longer a reason to shut things down in the US.

Places like NY are opening pretty much immediately. It's over.

This is where they lost people too. The Democrats it's obvious want to drag out this crisis they are getting things they never would have gotten otherwise. A lot of conservative people see this and how the goalposts keep changing and gives conservatives more reason to distrust what is being said and mandated and encouraged vaccines being only one of them. Now the Democrats have figured out that by keeping these draconian measures in place with people who are fully vaccinated has backfired big time. You can't get people on board with getting this vaccine if they don't see any light at the end of the tunnel. What is the point of getting a vaccine if you're gonna make me wear a mask and keep away from others anyway.

Conservatives always distrust experts. This isn’t anything new. Studies have shown that conspiratorial thinking is much more prevalent among conservatives and this shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone considering the amount of crazy coming from the right. The funny thing is that they believe the government is this impenetrable pillar of evil and secrecy, yet some jobless nobody living in their moms basement has it ALL figured out. This lack of critical thinking is a major problem and has contributed a great deal to this mess.

Conservatives can distrust anyone they want I suppose. The problem is who they choose to believer over the highly qualified experts.

Highly qualified people who say incorrect things or who steal large amounts of money are just further indicted by their qualifications. Exclusive degrees do not counteract misdeeds or false statements by people. This is a very corrupt time.

Does it really take a conspiracy theory to suggest that handing out $3-5 trillion will involve a feeding frenzy by wealthy and powerful interests? It's not really a theory; more like a definition. Experts have a self-serving way of arranging the world's affairs, if given the power.

LCDFlight wrote:

CitizenJustin wrote:

stratosphere wrote:

This is where they lost people too. The Democrats it's obvious want to drag out this crisis they are getting things they never would have gotten otherwise. A lot of conservative people see this and how the goalposts keep changing and gives conservatives more reason to distrust what is being said and mandated and encouraged vaccines being only one of them. Now the Democrats have figured out that by keeping these draconian measures in place with people who are fully vaccinated has backfired big time. You can't get people on board with getting this vaccine if they don't see any light at the end of the tunnel. What is the point of getting a vaccine if you're gonna make me wear a mask and keep away from others anyway.

Conservatives always distrust experts. This isn’t anything new. Studies have shown that conspiratorial thinking is much more prevalent among conservatives and this shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone considering the amount of crazy coming from the right. The funny thing is that they believe the government is this impenetrable pillar of evil and secrecy, yet some jobless nobody living in their moms basement has it ALL figured out. This lack of critical thinking is a major problem and has contributed a great deal to this mess.

Conservatives can distrust anyone they want I suppose. The problem is who they choose to believer over the highly qualified experts.

Highly qualified people who say incorrect things or who steal large amounts of money are just further indicted by their qualifications. Exclusive degrees do not counteract misdeeds or false statements by people. This is a very corrupt time.

Does it really take a conspiracy theory to suggest that handing out $3-5 trillion will involve a feeding frenzy by wealthy and powerful interests? It's not really a theory; more like a definition. Experts have a self-serving way of arranging the world's affairs, if given the power.

In the vein of such a worldview, I'd be awfully disappointed if one is not self employed.

LCDFlight wrote:

CitizenJustin wrote:

stratosphere wrote:

This is where they lost people too. The Democrats it's obvious want to drag out this crisis they are getting things they never would have gotten otherwise. A lot of conservative people see this and how the goalposts keep changing and gives conservatives more reason to distrust what is being said and mandated and encouraged vaccines being only one of them. Now the Democrats have figured out that by keeping these draconian measures in place with people who are fully vaccinated has backfired big time. You can't get people on board with getting this vaccine if they don't see any light at the end of the tunnel. What is the point of getting a vaccine if you're gonna make me wear a mask and keep away from others anyway.

Conservatives always distrust experts. This isn’t anything new. Studies have shown that conspiratorial thinking is much more prevalent among conservatives and this shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone considering the amount of crazy coming from the right. The funny thing is that they believe the government is this impenetrable pillar of evil and secrecy, yet some jobless nobody living in their moms basement has it ALL figured out. This lack of critical thinking is a major problem and has contributed a great deal to this mess.

Conservatives can distrust anyone they want I suppose. The problem is who they choose to believer over the highly qualified experts.

Highly qualified people who say incorrect things or who steal large amounts of money are just further indicted by their qualifications. Exclusive degrees do not counteract misdeeds or false statements by people. This is a very corrupt time.

Does it really take a conspiracy theory to suggest that handing out $3-5 trillion will involve a feeding frenzy by wealthy and powerful interests? It's not really a theory; more like a definition. Experts have a self-serving way of arranging the world's affairs, if given the power.

They should be chearing on Biden wanting to increase taxes on the rich to recoup the investment, then.

StarAC17 wrote:

Here is an example of liberals making it political. Keeping mask mandates when the CDC says fully vaccinated people don't have to wear masks under when around other vaccinated people.

If I told you I'm vaccinated, how would you know I'm telling the truth? In fact, what if I tested positive for Covid but, because I don't have symptoms, I'm out and about? How would you know and how would you protect yourself or others?

Outside? Don't think it matters since we can socially distance.
With family? So long as we all live in the same household or we know for a fact that each one is vaccinated, no worries.
Workplace? If the employer demands evidence of vaccine before returning to the office, then I'm comfortable.
With strangers? Nope.

StarAC17 wrote:

Here is an example of liberals making it political. Keeping mask mandates when the CDC says fully vaccinated people don't have to wear masks under when around other vaccinated people.

Which is precisely why a vaccine passport would be useful

Oh wait

stl07 wrote:

StarAC17 wrote:

Here is an example of liberals making it political. Keeping mask mandates when the CDC says fully vaccinated people don't have to wear masks under when around other vaccinated people.

Which is precisely why a vaccine passport would be useful

Oh wait

Right? We can't have useful things because they make too much sense.

stl07 wrote:

StarAC17 wrote:

Here is an example of liberals making it political. Keeping mask mandates when the CDC says fully vaccinated people don't have to wear masks under when around other vaccinated people.

Which is precisely why a vaccine passport would be useful

Oh wait

Are you planning to walk around a party saying, Show-me-your-papers?

Even for international travel it is not clear how the vaccine passports going to work. AZ is an approved vaccine in UK, not in the USA. Should US allow AZ vaccinated people.

dtw2hyd wrote:

stl07 wrote:

StarAC17 wrote:

Here is an example of liberals making it political. Keeping mask mandates when the CDC says fully vaccinated people don't have to wear masks under when around other vaccinated people.

Which is precisely why a vaccine passport would be useful

Oh wait

Are you planning to walk around a party saying, Show-me-your-papers?

Even for international travel it is not clear how the vaccine passports going to work. AZ is an approved vaccine in UK, not in the USA. Should US allow AZ vaccinated people.

Just do what Israel is doing. If you are vaccinated, you can go to high-exposure zones, if not, you can keep living how you do right now with no mass concerts

AABusDrvr wrote:

This is the first large scale use of mRNA vaccine technology on humans, show me a few years worth of data, and I'll reconsider.

This is a common misconception.

By no means is this the first large-scale use of mRNA vaccines on humans. In fact, the first mRNA vaccine was introduced by Edward Jenner in the 1790s with the smallpox vaccine.

You see, every attenuated viral vaccine works by generating viral mRNAs in the cells that take up the viral genetic material. That includes smallpox, oral polio, MMR, Varicella, rotavirus, yellow fever, and nasal flu. More recently, viral vectored vaccines such as ERVEBO against ebola and the J&J Ad26-vectored Ebola and COVID products generate mRNA against their respective antigens using genetically engineered viruses.

I'm not being disingenuous.

In the smallpox and varicella vaccines, as well as the Adenovirus-vectored vaccines, DNA-->mRNA-->Protein

In the measles, mumps, and nasal flu vaccines, and ERVEBO Ebola vaccine, viral gRNA-->mRNA-->Protein

For rubella, rotavirus, and yellow fever vaccines, they directly introduce viral genomic RNA which also serves as mRNA, so viral g/mRNA-->Protein.

This newer technology skips some steps and just does the mRNA-->Protein step. It allows for a much cleaner and easily-programmed process that doesn't have a lot of the pitfalls of multi-passage attenuation.

But all of these vaccines do generate mRNA and they all share the mRNA-->Protein step. mRNA vaccines are a lot older than you think.

DocLightning wrote:

AABusDrvr wrote:

This is the first large scale use of mRNA vaccine technology on humans, show me a few years worth of data, and I'll reconsider.

This is a common misconception.
By no means is this the first large-scale use of mRNA vaccines on humans. In fact, the first mRNA vaccine was introduced by Edward Jenner in the 1790s with the smallpox vaccine.
You see, every attenuated viral vaccine works by generating viral mRNAs in the cells that take up the viral genetic material. That includes smallpox, oral polio, MMR, Varicella, rotavirus, yellow fever, and nasal flu. More recently, viral vectored vaccines such as ERVEBO against ebola and the J&J Ad26-vectored Ebola and COVID products generate mRNA against their respective antigens using genetically engineered viruses.
I'm not being disingenuous.
In the smallpox and varicella vaccines, as well as the Adenovirus-vectored vaccines, DNA-->mRNA-->Protein
In the measles, mumps, and nasal flu vaccines, and ERVEBO Ebola vaccine, viral gRNA-->mRNA-->Protein
For rubella, rotavirus, and yellow fever vaccines, they directly introduce viral genomic RNA which also serves as mRNA, so viral g/mRNA-->Protein.
This newer technology skips some steps and just does the mRNA-->Protein step. It allows for a much cleaner and easily-programmed process that doesn't have a lot of the pitfalls of multi-passage attenuation.
But all of these vaccines do generate mRNA and they all share the mRNA-->Protein step. mRNA vaccines are a lot older than you think.

"But... but... who should I believe? A good doctor like you... or some demagogue on Fox News?"

alfa164 wrote:

DocLightning wrote:

AABusDrvr wrote:

This is the first large scale use of mRNA vaccine technology on humans, show me a few years worth of data, and I'll reconsider.

This is a common misconception.
By no means is this the first large-scale use of mRNA vaccines on humans. In fact, the first mRNA vaccine was introduced by Edward Jenner in the 1790s with the smallpox vaccine.
You see, every attenuated viral vaccine works by generating viral mRNAs in the cells that take up the viral genetic material. That includes smallpox, oral polio, MMR, Varicella, rotavirus, yellow fever, and nasal flu. More recently, viral vectored vaccines such as ERVEBO against ebola and the J&J Ad26-vectored Ebola and COVID products generate mRNA against their respective antigens using genetically engineered viruses.
I'm not being disingenuous.
In the smallpox and varicella vaccines, as well as the Adenovirus-vectored vaccines, DNA-->mRNA-->Protein
In the measles, mumps, and nasal flu vaccines, and ERVEBO Ebola vaccine, viral gRNA-->mRNA-->Protein
For rubella, rotavirus, and yellow fever vaccines, they directly introduce viral genomic RNA which also serves as mRNA, so viral g/mRNA-->Protein.
This newer technology skips some steps and just does the mRNA-->Protein step. It allows for a much cleaner and easily-programmed process that doesn't have a lot of the pitfalls of multi-passage attenuation.
But all of these vaccines do generate mRNA and they all share the mRNA-->Protein step. mRNA vaccines are a lot older than you think.

"But... but... who should I believe? A good doctor like you... or some demagogue on Fox News?"

They just use big words from lib'rul univershatees to mask real intention so they can plot elitist evil against us all.

Pi7472000 wrote:

Very sad to think the anti science crowd will stop us from returning to normal. They are taking the freedoms away of people who listen to science and experts.

We returned to normal in Florida over 6 months ago. We had our freedoms restored by common sense governance.

windy95 wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

Very sad to think the anti science crowd will stop us from returning to normal. They are taking the freedoms away of people who listen to science and experts.

We returned to normal in Florida over 6 months ago. We had our freedoms restored by common sense governance.

Really how? Most smart people in Florida are still wearing masks. They are the ones with Common sense. Not the cowards and disgraces that ignore science , such as the state GOP.

casinterest wrote:

windy95 wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

Very sad to think the anti science crowd will stop us from returning to normal. They are taking the freedoms away of people who listen to science and experts.

We returned to normal in Florida over 6 months ago. We had our freedoms restored by common sense governance.

Really how? Most smart people in Florida are still wearing masks. They are the ones with Common sense. Not the cowards and disgraces that ignore science , such as the state GOP.

You mean most of the scared people who have been brainwashed by the mainstream media are wearing masks in Florida. We even have science deniers outside double masked when distanced from others.

windy95 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

windy95 wrote:

We returned to normal in Florida over 6 months ago. We had our freedoms restored by common sense governance.

Really how? Most smart people in Florida are still wearing masks. They are the ones with Common sense. Not the cowards and disgraces that ignore science , such as the state GOP.

You mean most of the scared people who have been brainwashed by the mainstream media are wearing masks in Florida. We even have science deniers outside double masked when distanced from others.

Really? Guess they aren't covering India, or the fact that Florida had high death rates in the winter on your cult network. It is good to see that smart Floridians still wear their masks to help protect the spread from their uneducated folks that don't understand virus transmission or death rates.

casinterest wrote:

windy95 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Really how? Most smart people in Florida are still wearing masks. They are the ones with Common sense. Not the cowards and disgraces that ignore science , such as the state GOP.

You mean most of the scared people who have been brainwashed by the mainstream media are wearing masks in Florida. We even have science deniers outside double masked when distanced from others.

Really? Guess they aren't covering India, or the fact that Florida had high death rates in the winter on your cult network. It is good to see that smart Floridians still wear their masks to help protect the spread from their uneducated folks that don't understand virus transmission or death rates.

When I've been in Florida, they had the smartest mask wearing I've seen.

1. If an elderly person is wearing a mask, everyone approaching 10 feet puts on a mask to protect them.
2. Outside, people only wear masks in concentrations.
3. Condo complexes require masks in the elevator.
4. Very vulnerable double mask
5. But if you are far from people, why wear a mask? If with family, why?
6. When everyone vaccinated why?


It is out of state people I've had to tell don't approach.

I had my Uncle Tom sent home to die last winter, in Florida, because he needed a Hospital bed for 7+ weeks and had a low chance to survive. My cousin (his niece) nursed him through (Hospital supplied everything, including some rate meds.) So I take this seriously.

UK did the early research and masks work!
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-07-08-ox ... k-act-now/

I personally cannot stand wearing a mask, but when appropriate I do wear a mask and I am fully vaccinated. e.g., my 80+ year old aunt with several co-mobidities, we take extra caution as she is on meds dangerous if she caught Covid19. She double masks always as her catching it would be horrid.

Because so few are vaccinated, I fly double masked to protect my elderly relatives.

I have long haul Covid19 symptoms. Trivial symptoms, but annoying: minor tinnitus, liss of some smell, and I cannot taste fat. I miss bacon (it tastes poor when you cannot taste the fat), cakes, ice cream, and truly enjoying ribs or a marbled steak. And french fries. When you cannot taste the fat, they taste like bleached potatoes (yuck).

India is a disaster and a half. We need more vaccinated. Yea my 12 year old can get a shot, boo that myturn ca.gov didn't program in the age range! Grrrr....

But around fully vaccinated people, I keep a little distance, but I don't wear a mask.


Lightsaber

windy95 wrote:

We returned to normal in Florida over 6 months ago. We had our freedoms restored by common sense governance.

Which one of your Constitutional rights do you feel was infringed upon over the last 12-14 months? Please be specific.

windy95 wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

Very sad to think the anti science crowd will stop us from returning to normal. They are taking the freedoms away of people who listen to science and experts.

We returned to normal in Florida over 6 months ago. We had our freedoms restored by common sense governance.

Seems you don’t understand freedom in this context.

dtw2hyd wrote:

That adds one more to priority list for FDA, move these vaccines out of EUA limbo.

I'm a few days behind in my forum-reading due to work obligations. Is there any plan to approve the Covid-19 vaccines under the 'normal' FDA process? I've heard no mention of it.

windy95 wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

Very sad to think the anti science crowd will stop us from returning to normal. They are taking the freedoms away of people who listen to science and experts.

We returned to normal in Florida over 6 months ago. We had our freedoms restored by common sense governance.

Congratulations, don't open the champagne bottle yet, COVID-19 doesn't play nice to "Mission Accomplished" countries, states and cities.

TangoandCash wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

That adds one more to priority list for FDA, move these vaccines out of EUA limbo.

I'm a few days behind in my forum-reading due to work obligations. Is there any plan to approve the Covid-19 vaccines under the 'normal' FDA process? I've heard no mention of it.

Pfizer is asking for full approval.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-n ... e-n1266569

Aaron747 wrote:

windy95 wrote:

Pi7472000 wrote:

Very sad to think the anti science crowd will stop us from returning to normal. They are taking the freedoms away of people who listen to science and experts.

We returned to normal in Florida over 6 months ago. We had our freedoms restored by common sense governance.

Seems you don’t understand freedom in this context.

I fully understand what it means. Anyone who claims to have the "science" and "experts" on their side is usually looking to take away someone else's freedom and rights.

windy95 wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

windy95 wrote:

We returned to normal in Florida over 6 months ago. We had our freedoms restored by common sense governance.

Seems you don’t understand freedom in this context.

I fully understand what it means. Anyone who claims to have the "science" and "experts" on their side is usually looking to take away someone else's freedom and rights.

Science and experts are used to save lives. Freedom and rights are arguments usually used by those that want to do dangerous, Fraudulent, and deadly things without accountability.

casinterest wrote:

windy95 wrote:

Aaron747 wrote:

Seems you don’t understand freedom in this context.

I fully understand what it means. Anyone who claims to have the "science" and "experts" on their side is usually looking to take away someone else's freedom and rights.

Science and experts are used to save lives. Freedom and rights are arguments usually used by those that want to do dangerous, Fraudulent, and deadly things without accountability.

You mean science and experts have never caused lives? all Scientists and experts are always right? Or just scientist and experts who regurgitate what you want to hear? Freedom and rights are used by people who do not want government involved in their lives from cradle to grave. Nothing I do is dangerous or fraudulent and I am fully accountable for my actions. What a preposterous comment.

windy95 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

windy95 wrote:

I fully understand what it means. Anyone who claims to have the "science" and "experts" on their side is usually looking to take away someone else's freedom and rights.

Science and experts are used to save lives. Freedom and rights are arguments usually used by those that want to do dangerous, Fraudulent, and deadly things without accountability.

You mean science and experts have never caused lives? all Scientists and experts are always right? Or just scientist and experts who regurgitate what you want to hear? Freedom and rights are used by people who do not want government involved in their lives from cradle to grave. Nothing I do is dangerous or fraudulent and I am fully accountable for my actions. What a preposterous comment.

No more preposterous than saying your freedoms have been abridged by a public health crisis. It's called living amongst other people. Waiting for your answer to the Constitutional rights question.

windy95 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

windy95 wrote:

I fully understand what it means. Anyone who claims to have the "science" and "experts" on their side is usually looking to take away someone else's freedom and rights.

Science and experts are used to save lives. Freedom and rights are arguments usually used by those that want to do dangerous, Fraudulent, and deadly things without accountability.

You mean science and experts have never caused lives? all Scientists and experts are always right? Or just scientist and experts who regurgitate what you want to hear? Freedom and rights are used by people who do not want government involved in their lives from cradle to grave. Nothing I do is dangerous or fraudulent and I am fully accountable for my actions. What a preposterous comment.

You are the one arguing about flouting rules that help prevent people from death due to a proven disease. Preposterous is that you claim freedom and rights to expose other people to diseases and death based on willful ignorance of science and facts. Government is involved in everyone's lives cradle to grave. Denial of this ignores the reality of laws , regulations, and citizenship.

casinterest wrote:

windy95 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Science and experts are used to save lives. Freedom and rights are arguments usually used by those that want to do dangerous, Fraudulent, and deadly things without accountability.

You mean science and experts have never caused lives? all Scientists and experts are always right? Or just scientist and experts who regurgitate what you want to hear? Freedom and rights are used by people who do not want government involved in their lives from cradle to grave. Nothing I do is dangerous or fraudulent and I am fully accountable for my actions. What a preposterous comment.

You are the one arguing about flouting rules that help prevent people from death due to a proven disease. Preposterous is that you claim freedom and rights to expose other people to diseases and death based on willful ignorance of science and facts. Government is involved in everyone's lives cradle to grave. Denial of this ignores the reality of laws , regulations, and citizenship.

I understand avoiding the vaccine while experimental. However, my 12 year old gets vaccinated today. I wish I could also vaccinate my 10 year old.

The issue with going unvaccinated is that precautions will be abandoned.

My social circle already is down to only the vaccinated. If the adults are not vaccinated, no invite to playdates. That is rapidly going to mean everyone 12+ must . I visit too many 80+ relatives to want to increase the risk to them.

Perhaps this is because I am on this blog because I love aviation. e.g., I will fly over memorial day weekend (round trip). Those unvaccinated really shouldn't fly... I won't stop them, but the risk UnVacs will transmit is multiples higher and they are on their own if they get Covid19.

I do care about kids. A local child has long haul symptoms.

I am big on probability. If you are unvaccinated, you will eventually get Covid19 and about 30% chance you get long haul symptoms. Mine are minor, but dang do I miss tasting bacon.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... r-BB1e7zKf

Lightsaber

lightsaber wrote:

casinterest wrote:

windy95 wrote:

You mean science and experts have never caused lives? all Scientists and experts are always right? Or just scientist and experts who regurgitate what you want to hear? Freedom and rights are used by people who do not want government involved in their lives from cradle to grave. Nothing I do is dangerous or fraudulent and I am fully accountable for my actions. What a preposterous comment.

You are the one arguing about flouting rules that help prevent people from death due to a proven disease. Preposterous is that you claim freedom and rights to expose other people to diseases and death based on willful ignorance of science and facts. Government is involved in everyone's lives cradle to grave. Denial of this ignores the reality of laws , regulations, and citizenship.

I understand avoiding the vaccine while experimental. However, my 12 year old gets vaccinated today. I wish I could also vaccinate my 10 year old.

The issue with going unvaccinated is that precautions will be abandoned.

My social circle already is down to only the vaccinated. If the adults are not vaccinated, no invite to playdates. That is rapidly going to mean everyone 12+ must . I visit too many 80+ relatives to want to increase the risk to them.

Perhaps this is because I am on this blog because I love aviation. e.g., I will fly over memorial day weekend (round trip). Those unvaccinated really shouldn't fly... I won't stop them, but the risk UnVacs will transmit is multiples higher and they are on their own if they get Covid19.

I do care about kids. A local child has long haul symptoms.

I am big on probability. If you are unvaccinated, you will eventually get Covid19 and about 30% chance you get long haul symptoms. Mine are minor, but dang do I miss tasting bacon.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... r-BB1e7zKf

Lightsaber

I heard for some that the vaccinations helped long haul symptoms over a few months. So hopefully you will get Bacon back.

I still can't vaccinate my kids, and I want to. Not because I don't think they can handle it, but because I want to prevent the ones that cannot get vaccinated from getting it. Having too many that won't get vaccinated makes it harder for those with weakened immune systems.

dtw2hyd wrote:

TangoandCash wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

That adds one more to priority list for FDA, move these vaccines out of EUA limbo.

I'm a few days behind in my forum-reading due to work obligations. Is there any plan to approve the Covid-19 vaccines under the 'normal' FDA process? I've heard no mention of it.

Pfizer is asking for full approval.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-n ... e-n1266569

I think full FDA approval will come pretty soon for both Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, likely before the fall. Definitely, school and university vaccine mandates will carry more water with full FDA approval. Now as vaccine supply is exceeding demand in the U.S., access is not as much of an issue as before, although I do still worry about service industry workers who will have to take time off from work for their appointments and likely need to call out sick in case of side effects.

casinterest wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

casinterest wrote:

You are the one arguing about flouting rules that help prevent people from death due to a proven disease. Preposterous is that you claim freedom and rights to expose other people to diseases and death based on willful ignorance of science and facts. Government is involved in everyone's lives cradle to grave. Denial of this ignores the reality of laws , regulations, and citizenship.

I understand avoiding the vaccine while experimental. However, my 12 year old gets vaccinated today. I wish I could also vaccinate my 10 year old.

The issue with going unvaccinated is that precautions will be abandoned.

My social circle already is down to only the vaccinated. If the adults are not vaccinated, no invite to playdates. That is rapidly going to mean everyone 12+ must . I visit too many 80+ relatives to want to increase the risk to them.

Perhaps this is because I am on this blog because I love aviation. e.g., I will fly over memorial day weekend (round trip). Those unvaccinated really shouldn't fly... I won't stop them, but the risk UnVacs will transmit is multiples higher and they are on their own if they get Covid19.

I do care about kids. A local child has long haul symptoms.

I am big on probability. If you are unvaccinated, you will eventually get Covid19 and about 30% chance you get long haul symptoms. Mine are minor, but dang do I miss tasting bacon.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... r-BB1e7zKf

Lightsaber

I heard for some that the vaccinations helped long haul symptoms over a few months. So hopefully you will get Bacon back.

I still can't vaccinate my kids, and I want to. Not because I don't think they can handle it, but because I want to prevent the ones that cannot get vaccinated from getting it. Having too many that won't get vaccinated makes it harder for those with weakened immune systems.

The vaccines helped regain a part of my taste. Now I cannot taste fat, minor tinnitus (was worse, far worse pre-vaccine), and most of my smell is still gone. All nerve damage. My doctor said 40% to 60% if people recover after a vaccine, but it is slow and not guaranteed by any means. I have it easy compared to most with longhaul symptoms.

Yes, not stopping this virus by having so many unvacs does put those with weakened immune systems at risk. Since I visit some of those, I must limit my exposure to the unvaccinated.

Lightsaber

CDC says fully vaccinated people don't need to wear face masks indoors or outdoors in most settings says:

Fully vaccinated people no longer need to wear a face mask or stay 6 feet away from others in most settings, whether outdoors or indoors, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in updated public health guidance released Thursday.

There are a handful of instances where people will still need to wear masks — in a health-care setting or at a business that requires them — even if they've had their final vaccine dose two or more weeks ago, CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky told reporters at a press briefing. Fully vaccinated people will also still need to wear masks on airplanes, buses, trains and other public transportation, she said.

Makes sense.

He added it will be "nearly impossible" to enforce with those who aren't vaccinated and said some businesses that lift restrictions may need to impose an honor system.

Which is nonsense, so many unvaxxed people will just say they are vaxxed whenever it benefits them to say so.

An honor system assumes people have honor, bad assumption in today's day and age.

As the thread starter article suggests, this is about where things will end up, a large swath of the population will gleefully stay unvaxxed.

IMO, eventually enough of them will take each other out of circulation, sadly not without collateral damage.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Revelation wrote:

CDC says fully vaccinated people don't need to wear face masks indoors or outdoors in most settings says:

Fully vaccinated people no longer need to wear a face mask or stay 6 feet away from others in most settings, whether outdoors or indoors, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in updated public health guidance released Thursday.

There are a handful of instances where people will still need to wear masks — in a health-care setting or at a business that requires them — even if they've had their final vaccine dose two or more weeks ago, CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky told reporters at a press briefing. Fully vaccinated people will also still need to wear masks on airplanes, buses, trains and other public transportation, she said.

Makes sense.

He added it will be "nearly impossible" to enforce with those who aren't vaccinated and said some businesses that lift restrictions may need to impose an honor system.

Which is nonsense, so many unvaxxed people will just say they are vaxxed whenever it benefits them to say so.

An honor system assumes people have honor, bad assumption in today's day and age.

As the thread starter article suggests, this is about where things will end up, a large swath of the population will gleefully stay unvaxxed.

IMO, eventually enough of them will take each other out of circulation, sadly not without collateral damage.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Although such folks will eventually take each other out, it’s an administrative nightmare for any business trying to operate cleanly and normally. A government-issue vaccine passport is the only practical solution.

Revelation wrote:

CDC says fully vaccinated people don't need to wear face masks indoors or outdoors in most settings says:

Fully vaccinated people no longer need to wear a face mask or stay 6 feet away from others in most settings, whether outdoors or indoors, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said in updated public health guidance released Thursday.

There are a handful of instances where people will still need to wear masks — in a health-care setting or at a business that requires them — even if they've had their final vaccine dose two or more weeks ago, CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky told reporters at a press briefing. Fully vaccinated people will also still need to wear masks on airplanes, buses, trains and other public transportation, she said.

Makes sense.

He added it will be "nearly impossible" to enforce with those who aren't vaccinated and said some businesses that lift restrictions may need to impose an honor system.

Which is nonsense, so many unvaxxed people will just say they are vaxxed whenever it benefits them to say so.

An honor system assumes people have honor, bad assumption in today's day and age.

As the thread starter article suggests, this is about where things will end up, a large swath of the population will gleefully stay unvaxxed.

IMO, eventually enough of them will take each other out of circulation, sadly not without collateral damage.

Stupid is as stupid does.

It's over. I think the CDC's point was that there aren't facts that demonstrate COVID vaccinated people are in any danger, or pose any danger to anyone, from the COVID virus.

Immune-Compromised people face dangers everywhere, as always. They would remain masked, if recommended by their doctor, or may have to be in isolation. It does not behoove the entire human race to isolate or distance just to make the immune-compromised feel more equal. One of my loved ones is in that group, but it doesn't mean my life stops.

LCDFlight wrote:

...
It's over. I think the CDC's point was that there aren't facts that demonstrate COVID vaccinated people are in any danger, or pose any danger to anyone, from the COVID virus.

Immune-Compromised people face dangers everywhere, as always. They would remain masked, if recommended by their doctor, or may have to be in isolation. It does not behoove the entire human race to isolate or distance just to make the immune-compromised feel more equal. One of my loved ones is in that group, but it doesn't mean my life stops.

I sincerely hope you are correct, but historically CDC's decisions were always shortsighted during this pandemic.

Flip side of it is inviting reinfections and next wave. At that point pundits will be rehashing the decision.

There is no science supporting no-mask indoor decision. These decisions are slowly venturing into pure Pharma PR and Vaccine makers' PP(production planning)

dtw2hyd wrote:

I sincerely hope you are correct, but historically CDC's decisions were always shortsighted during this pandemic.

Flip side of it is inviting reinfections and next wave. At that point pundits will be rehashing the decision.

There is no science supporting no-mask indoor decision. These decisions are slowly venturing into pure Pharma PR and Vaccine makers' PP(production planning)

So we are now satisfied that the science behind mask wearing is sound, we are also past the type of mask as well?