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dtw2hyd
Posts: 9100
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Herd Immunity Losing Out To Vaccine Hesitation and Virus Mutation

Fri May 14, 2021 2:04 pm

par13del wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
I sincerely hope you are correct, but historically CDC's decisions were always shortsighted during this pandemic.

Flip side of it is inviting reinfections and next wave. At that point pundits will be rehashing the decision.

There is no science supporting no-mask indoor decision. These decisions are slowly venturing into pure Pharma PR and Vaccine makers' PP(production planning)

So we are now satisfied that the science behind mask wearing is sound, we are also past the type of mask as well?


Question is who asked CDC to come up with these untimely and unsolicited recommendations. How many vaccinated people demanded CDC to remove mask recommendation.
---------------
Initial no-mask - Based on shortage of PPE supply for HCWs, against science. Double down with the argument only trained pros know how to use a mask. Many cannot wash hands properly, didn't stop from telling people to wash hands.
----------------
3-ft In seat instruction- Based on two flawed assumptions: Wild Type only(against facts) and Droplets(against science)
https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-ar ... 30/6167856

MIT Research rebukes CDC recommendation.
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/i ... -says.html
-----------
Outdoors no-mask - Again based on same two flawed assumptions.
-----------
WHO changed droplets to aerosols - So did CDC. One year too late
----------------
Instead of going back revisiting earlier bad decisions, CDC doubling down with Indoors no-mask -
----------------------------------
To draw an aviation analogy, certification process though not perfect worked for decades, but too many flawed assumptions caused MAX issues.
 
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mke717spotter
Posts: 2241
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:32 am

Re: Herd Immunity Losing Out To Vaccine Hesitation and Virus Mutation

Sat May 15, 2021 9:01 pm

Yesterday while at work I was documenting the medical history of a woman that was being discharged from the hospital. I asked her if she had gotten her COVID vaccine yet and she no because the hospital only offered her the J&J and "that one will kill ya."
 
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flyingclrs727
Posts: 2817
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:44 am

Re: Herd Immunity Losing Out To Vaccine Hesitation and Virus Mutation

Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:12 am

DocLightning wrote:
AABusDrvr wrote:
This is the first large scale use of mRNA vaccine technology on humans, show me a few years worth of data, and I'll reconsider.


This is a common misconception.

By no means is this the first large-scale use of mRNA vaccines on humans. In fact, the first mRNA vaccine was introduced by Edward Jenner in the 1790s with the smallpox vaccine.

You see, every attenuated viral vaccine works by generating viral mRNAs in the cells that take up the viral genetic material. That includes smallpox, oral polio, MMR, Varicella, rotavirus, yellow fever, and nasal flu. More recently, viral vectored vaccines such as ERVEBO against ebola and the J&J Ad26-vectored Ebola and COVID products generate mRNA against their respective antigens using genetically engineered viruses.

I'm not being disingenuous.

In the smallpox and varicella vaccines, as well as the Adenovirus-vectored vaccines, DNA-->mRNA-->Protein

In the measles, mumps, and nasal flu vaccines, and ERVEBO Ebola vaccine, viral gRNA-->mRNA-->Protein

For rubella, rotavirus, and yellow fever vaccines, they directly introduce viral genomic RNA which also serves as mRNA, so viral g/mRNA-->Protein.

This newer technology skips some steps and just does the mRNA-->Protein step. It allows for a much cleaner and easily-programmed process that doesn't have a lot of the pitfalls of multi-passage attenuation.

But all of these vaccines do generate mRNA and they all share the mRNA-->Protein step. mRNA vaccines are a lot older than you think.


This is fascinating! Do you have any links to primary sources?
 
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seb146
Posts: 23964
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Herd Immunity Losing Out To Vaccine Hesitation and Virus Mutation

Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:25 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
AABusDrvr wrote:
This is the first large scale use of mRNA vaccine technology on humans, show me a few years worth of data, and I'll reconsider.


This is a common misconception.

By no means is this the first large-scale use of mRNA vaccines on humans. In fact, the first mRNA vaccine was introduced by Edward Jenner in the 1790s with the smallpox vaccine.

You see, every attenuated viral vaccine works by generating viral mRNAs in the cells that take up the viral genetic material. That includes smallpox, oral polio, MMR, Varicella, rotavirus, yellow fever, and nasal flu. More recently, viral vectored vaccines such as ERVEBO against ebola and the J&J Ad26-vectored Ebola and COVID products generate mRNA against their respective antigens using genetically engineered viruses.

I'm not being disingenuous.

In the smallpox and varicella vaccines, as well as the Adenovirus-vectored vaccines, DNA-->mRNA-->Protein

In the measles, mumps, and nasal flu vaccines, and ERVEBO Ebola vaccine, viral gRNA-->mRNA-->Protein

For rubella, rotavirus, and yellow fever vaccines, they directly introduce viral genomic RNA which also serves as mRNA, so viral g/mRNA-->Protein.

This newer technology skips some steps and just does the mRNA-->Protein step. It allows for a much cleaner and easily-programmed process that doesn't have a lot of the pitfalls of multi-passage attenuation.

But all of these vaccines do generate mRNA and they all share the mRNA-->Protein step. mRNA vaccines are a lot older than you think.


This is fascinating! Do you have any links to primary sources?


So, I defer to Doc since he is an actual physician and has studied medicine and has access to more peer reviewed sources than I do but I found this which says scientists have been studying mRNA since the 1960s

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w
 
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DocLightning
Posts: 22258
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:51 am

Re: Herd Immunity Losing Out To Vaccine Hesitation and Virus Mutation

Sat Sep 18, 2021 7:56 pm

flyingclrs727 wrote:
This is fascinating! Do you have any links to primary sources?


Any AP Biology textbook or higher will have this information.
 
Kent350787
Posts: 2039
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Herd Immunity Losing Out To Vaccine Hesitation and Virus Mutation

Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:06 am

Are there any recent assessments, of vaccine hesitancy in other countries?

In Australia, the supply appears to gave been the issue rather than hesitancy, although AZ was extremely poorly messaged (125 TTS cases out of over 10.2 million doses, 8 deaths, only one of those in the last month). In my own state of over 8 million, over 95% of 70+yo have had at least one dose, and 76% two doses. For 16+yo the figures are 82% and 52%, with access for under 40yo only really in the last month or so. Most of the nation is seeing similar, although states without current outbreaks are a little lower

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