Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Topic Author
Posts: 7908
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Mon May 10, 2021 4:21 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57050690

Independent oil market analyst Gaurav Sharma told the BBC a lot of fuel was now stranded at refineries in Texas.
"Unless they sort it out by Tuesday, they're in big trouble," said Mr Sharma. "The first areas to be hit would be Atlanta and Tennessee, then the domino effect goes up to New York."

Such a vital supply can be crippled with ease it seems. Forget your big bombs and aircraft, cyber attacks are the new world order of the day.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 12366
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Mon May 10, 2021 4:28 pm

Hopefully, things will be sorted out soon. Will be interesting which party is responsible for this cyber-attack: state hackers? Iran, Russia, China, North Korea? Individuals? What was their primary motivation?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
pune
Posts: 538
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Mon May 10, 2021 4:34 pm

@Dutchy, probably China. They had done cyber-attacks of similar nature on India before.

A sort of thorough explainer of what happened in India -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCFXi-_xQ5Y

And the possibilities may be on similar that of India, to gauge both the effectiveness of the attack as well as how does U.S. react. What would be the proportional response of U.S. if any. There have been papers written about China's assertiveness in not only cyberspace but 10 new odd frontiers and disciplines. U.S. knows the concerns, now the question is. how much they acknowledge and identify the state/non-state actors and what sort of reactionary response it gives.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13367
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Mon May 10, 2021 4:48 pm

I filled up yesterday. Will have to see how all this plays out.
At the end of the day, Colonial needs to get new PC's loaded and in control, or pay the ransom.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
User avatar
T18
Posts: 786
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:28 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Mon May 10, 2021 4:51 pm

Well they already have us tankering flights to at least one station in the southeast due to this. Think I'll put a tank of 87 octane in my car today.
“Racing's important to men who do it well. When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting.” ― Steve McQueen (Le Mans) 1971
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 19805
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Mon May 10, 2021 9:30 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Hopefully, things will be sorted out soon. Will be interesting which party is responsible for this cyber-attack: state hackers? Iran, Russia, China, North Korea? Individuals? What was their primary motivation?


The primary motivation is money. It seems the FBI has identified DarkSide as the culprits, not a state actor.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57050690
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
User avatar
cjg225
Posts: 2149
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:59 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Mon May 10, 2021 11:29 pm

Being in PA, I wish I would've tanked up after I got home from my grandmother's yesterday, but I can probably make it another 2-3 weeks on 3/4 of a tank with how little I drive since the pandemic started.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
Tiredofhumanity
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:27 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Tue May 11, 2021 3:09 am

Oh look, the usual Manhattan-dwelling vultures have already started salivating over this mess:

https://www.barrons.com/articles/cybera ... 1620668129

Who wants to bet they'll singing these tunes when it costs $300 to fill their Beamers and Benz's :mischievous:
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 7594
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Tue May 11, 2021 2:32 pm

scbriml wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Hopefully, things will be sorted out soon. Will be interesting which party is responsible for this cyber-attack: state hackers? Iran, Russia, China, North Korea? Individuals? What was their primary motivation?


The primary motivation is money. It seems the FBI has identified DarkSide as the culprits, not a state actor.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57050690


If it is DarkSide and operating out of Russia, it’s been allowed, approved and/or supported by Putin. It wouldn’t happen otherwise, so the pressure to control this goes to him. War by other means.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 14576
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Tue May 11, 2021 2:53 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Hopefully, things will be sorted out soon. Will be interesting which party is responsible for this cyber-attack: state hackers? Iran, Russia, China, North Korea? Individuals? What was their primary motivation?


The primary motivation is money. It seems the FBI has identified DarkSide as the culprits, not a state actor.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57050690


If it is DarkSide and operating out of Russia, it’s been allowed, approved and/or supported by Putin. It wouldn’t happen otherwise, so the pressure to control this goes to him. War by other means.


Precisely. There is very little of strategic import happening in Russia that Putin is not aware of, if not approving.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13367
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Tue May 11, 2021 3:25 pm

At least the line is operating under manual control. Not optimal but it is running.
https://www.wxii12.com/article/gov-coop ... /36387610#

I did see some panic lines during rush hour today, but normal and most sites and I have yet to see a station out.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
johns624
Posts: 3680
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Tue May 11, 2021 5:00 pm

These cyber attacks need to be taken a lot more seriously. Just because it's not a physical attack doesn't make it any better. In some ways, it's worse.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13367
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Tue May 11, 2021 5:15 pm

johns624 wrote:
These cyber attacks need to be taken a lot more seriously. Just because it's not a physical attack doesn't make it any better. In some ways, it's worse.



They are taken seriously in many organizations ,but some organizations just sit there and leave things open. In many cases it is due to employees falling for Phishing scams( emails, or links) that can run and work over open ports in the network, which allow criminals to take control. A wide open network with little security is easy fodder for these items.

There will be a lot more CTO and CFO's paying attention in the oil and gas industry after this ,but there will be many open targets for years to come.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
johns624
Posts: 3680
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Tue May 11, 2021 5:21 pm

casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
These cyber attacks need to be taken a lot more seriously. Just because it's not a physical attack doesn't make it any better. In some ways, it's worse.



They are taken seriously in many organizations ,but some organizations just sit there and leave things open. In many cases it is due to employees falling for Phishing scams( emails, or links) that can run and work over open ports in the network, which allow criminals to take control. A wide open network with little security is easy fodder for these items.

There will be a lot more CTO and CFO's paying attention in the oil and gas industry after this ,but there will be many open targets for years to come.
That's part of it but I was also referring if it was done by, or with the consent of, a foreign government.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13367
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Tue May 11, 2021 6:27 pm

johns624 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
These cyber attacks need to be taken a lot more seriously. Just because it's not a physical attack doesn't make it any better. In some ways, it's worse.



They are taken seriously in many organizations ,but some organizations just sit there and leave things open. In many cases it is due to employees falling for Phishing scams( emails, or links) that can run and work over open ports in the network, which allow criminals to take control. A wide open network with little security is easy fodder for these items.

There will be a lot more CTO and CFO's paying attention in the oil and gas industry after this ,but there will be many open targets for years to come.
That's part of it but I was also referring if it was done by, or with the consent of, a foreign government.


That would be paid espionage, and could also be classified as an act of war. However at this point, no one is claiming this is state funded. What is known is that the group that exploited the hacks will probably be getting tracked down in short order with cooperation across multiple governments and private companies servers. The amount of heat that the hackers have brought on themselves is intense.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22085
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Tue May 11, 2021 10:34 pm

casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


They are taken seriously in many organizations ,but some organizations just sit there and leave things open. In many cases it is due to employees falling for Phishing scams( emails, or links) that can run and work over open ports in the network, which allow criminals to take control. A wide open network with little security is easy fodder for these items.

There will be a lot more CTO and CFO's paying attention in the oil and gas industry after this ,but there will be many open targets for years to come.
That's part of it but I was also referring if it was done by, or with the consent of, a foreign government.


That would be paid espionage, and could also be classified as an act of war. However at this point, no one is claiming this is state funded. What is known is that the group that exploited the hacks will probably be getting tracked down in short order with cooperation across multiple governments and private companies servers. The amount of heat that the hackers have brought on themselves is intense.

If in Russia, it still can be an act of war if done by civilians; it is where it came from, not necessarily consent. Now, I don't think anything will come over it.

Boy is gasoline pricey, even in Cali.
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
johns624
Posts: 3680
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Wed May 12, 2021 12:52 am

Gas is always expensive in Cali. I just filled up here in MI for $2.99.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14275
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Wed May 12, 2021 1:05 am

Did Tesla see a surge in orders ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Okie
Posts: 4240
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Wed May 12, 2021 1:11 am

Aesma wrote:
Did Tesla see a surge in orders ?


No the electrical grid is more vulnerable than the pipeline.

Okie
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 14576
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Wed May 12, 2021 1:23 am

casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
These cyber attacks need to be taken a lot more seriously. Just because it's not a physical attack doesn't make it any better. In some ways, it's worse.



They are taken seriously in many organizations ,but some organizations just sit there and leave things open. In many cases it is due to employees falling for Phishing scams( emails, or links) that can run and work over open ports in the network, which allow criminals to take control. A wide open network with little security is easy fodder for these items.

There will be a lot more CTO and CFO's paying attention in the oil and gas industry after this ,but there will be many open targets for years to come.


They’ve had years to get caught up but spent most of 2011-12 lobbying the GOP to get Senator Lieberman’s cybersecurity bill nixed. World’s smallest violin.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14275
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Wed May 12, 2021 1:31 am

Okie wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Did Tesla see a surge in orders ?


No the electrical grid is more vulnerable than the pipeline.

Okie


But you can make your own electricity. Gas, not really.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13367
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Wed May 12, 2021 12:22 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
These cyber attacks need to be taken a lot more seriously. Just because it's not a physical attack doesn't make it any better. In some ways, it's worse.



They are taken seriously in many organizations ,but some organizations just sit there and leave things open. In many cases it is due to employees falling for Phishing scams( emails, or links) that can run and work over open ports in the network, which allow criminals to take control. A wide open network with little security is easy fodder for these items.

There will be a lot more CTO and CFO's paying attention in the oil and gas industry after this ,but there will be many open targets for years to come.


They’ve had years to get caught up but spent most of 2011-12 lobbying the GOP to get Senator Lieberman’s cybersecurity bill nixed. World’s smallest violin.


It's the world's biggest headache. Usually these issues happen because a non-discerning person clicks on the wrong link, and let's in a small file that helps take down everything. Cybersecurity bill or not, the issue is the folks on the inside that open the front door.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
User avatar
northstardc4m
Posts: 3451
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2000 11:23 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Wed May 12, 2021 2:07 pm

casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
These cyber attacks need to be taken a lot more seriously. Just because it's not a physical attack doesn't make it any better. In some ways, it's worse.



They are taken seriously in many organizations ,but some organizations just sit there and leave things open. In many cases it is due to employees falling for Phishing scams( emails, or links) that can run and work over open ports in the network, which allow criminals to take control. A wide open network with little security is easy fodder for these items.

There will be a lot more CTO and CFO's paying attention in the oil and gas industry after this ,but there will be many open targets for years to come.
If they weren't already paying attention they should be fired on the spot.

Ransomware is a fact of life now in IT. It's almost guaranteed you will have run ins with it in any organization now. Its a big part of what i do now, sadly far too often... Of 500 ish clients we have 2 or 3 are getting hit every week, most are minor affecting one or more work stations, cash registers or a print server, but occasionally maybe once or twice a month, something much bigger.

Critical infrastructure needs to be isolated as much as possible and backed up often... But even that may not be enough to prevent significant downtime. The infiltration is getting harder and harder to prevent... One common one now is to clone a vendor address and spoof mail a PDF with imbedded malware in it as an invoice or catalog or some such. The malware takes a look at the network, sees what's open, reports back and the ransomware is inserted via the above info if they feel it worthwhile, or they use it as a new origin and around it goes again. The really smart ones will copy and use a real PDF from the origin vendor that they modify but it will not even flag for the people opening it.

Worse even if the company does pay up a good portion of the time they never get the keys to unencrypt their data.

As long as it makes them any money these criminal enterprises will keep going on these invasive scams.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14275
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Wed May 12, 2021 2:35 pm

casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
They are taken seriously in many organizations ,but some organizations just sit there and leave things open. In many cases it is due to employees falling for Phishing scams( emails, or links) that can run and work over open ports in the network, which allow criminals to take control. A wide open network with little security is easy fodder for these items.

There will be a lot more CTO and CFO's paying attention in the oil and gas industry after this ,but there will be many open targets for years to come.


They’ve had years to get caught up but spent most of 2011-12 lobbying the GOP to get Senator Lieberman’s cybersecurity bill nixed. World’s smallest violin.


It's the world's biggest headache. Usually these issues happen because a non-discerning person clicks on the wrong link, and let's in a small file that helps take down everything. Cybersecurity bill or not, the issue is the folks on the inside that open the front door.


My (very large) company was hit by a ransomware attack. Plenty of security failures were involved. Now, the infrastructure is much more secure, for example there are no admin accounts able to do all kinds of thing on all kinds of servers. Instead there are myriad accounts, each with limited rights. Same for the network, each application is vetted, only the needed ports/protocols allowed, segregation left and right, etc. Makes my life (in IT) much more difficult, but dealing with that cyberattack was a nightmare, and I was nowhere near the heart of it (nowhere near having any responsibility for it either, in fact my servers run Linux and weren't affected).
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4806
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Wed May 12, 2021 3:04 pm

This is the 21st version of piracy. A combination of state violence against the perpetrators and bribes for better behavior has been the partial solution over the centuries. Were the US, EU, China, Russia and close allies to decide to put a stop to this it would greatly reduce the risk.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13367
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Wed May 12, 2021 3:18 pm

Aesma wrote:
My (very large) company was hit by a ransomware attack. Plenty of security failures were involved. Now, the infrastructure is much more secure, for example there are no admin accounts able to do all kinds of thing on all kinds of servers. Instead there are myriad accounts, each with limited rights. Same for the network, each application is vetted, only the needed ports/protocols allowed, segregation left and right, etc. Makes my life (in IT) much more difficult, but dealing with that cyberattack was a nightmare, and I was nowhere near the heart of it (nowhere near having any responsibility for it either, in fact my servers run Linux and weren't affected).


The windows security shell has always been rather nonexistent. This was always an advantage of the Unix/Linux kernel. My days of playing with Minux taught me that.
Windows is easy to use, but the rather simple method of automatic software upgrades and executable access by click and run is disheartening. Also the default file structures are not as fine due to the lack of the security shell for admins, users and programs.

northstardc4m wrote:
casinterest wrote:
johns624 wrote:
These cyber attacks need to be taken a lot more seriously. Just because it's not a physical attack doesn't make it any better. In some ways, it's worse.



They are taken seriously in many organizations ,but some organizations just sit there and leave things open. In many cases it is due to employees falling for Phishing scams( emails, or links) that can run and work over open ports in the network, which allow criminals to take control. A wide open network with little security is easy fodder for these items.

There will be a lot more CTO and CFO's paying attention in the oil and gas industry after this ,but there will be many open targets for years to come.
If they weren't already paying attention they should be fired on the spot.

Ransomware is a fact of life now in IT. It's almost guaranteed you will have run ins with it in any organization now. Its a big part of what i do now, sadly far too often... Of 500 ish clients we have 2 or 3 are getting hit every week, most are minor affecting one or more work stations, cash registers or a print server, but occasionally maybe once or twice a month, something much bigger.

Critical infrastructure needs to be isolated as much as possible and backed up often... But even that may not be enough to prevent significant downtime. The infiltration is getting harder and harder to prevent... One common one now is to clone a vendor address and spoof mail a PDF with imbedded malware in it as an invoice or catalog or some such. The malware takes a look at the network, sees what's open, reports back and the ransomware is inserted via the above info if they feel it worthwhile, or they use it as a new origin and around it goes again. The really smart ones will copy and use a real PDF from the origin vendor that they modify but it will not even flag for the people opening it.

Worse even if the company does pay up a good portion of the time they never get the keys to unencrypt their data.

As long as it makes them any money these criminal enterprises will keep going on these invasive scams.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk



Firing on the spot isn't easy when corporate decisions override necessary training and infrastructural spending on security. I deal with a lot of IT myself, and it is amazing the amount of exploits I see in just the telecom sector. The malware has gotten smarter but it is mostly because the network and infrastructure we all use allows it to get smarter due to the large area of default playground settings.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
Tiredofhumanity
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:27 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Wed May 12, 2021 10:47 pm

 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13367
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Thu May 13, 2021 1:23 am

Tiredofhumanity wrote:
https://mobile.twitter.com/SecGranholm/status/1392588496880033792?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1392588496880033792%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnbc.com%2F2021%2F05%2F12%2Fcolonial-pipeline-restarts-after-hack-but-supply-chain-wont-return-to-normal-for-a-few-days.html

Looks like they've re-started.



Excellent. You should see the lines at the 1 in 10 gas stations around here that actually have fuel.
I can make it through Sunday, so I will be ok waiting for the pipeline to get going again.

https://www.wral.com/colonial-pipeline- ... /19674930/

“There will be lag time between Colonial Pipeline reopening and increases in fuel availability for general public,” the assessment warned. It noted that the fuel “travels through the pipeline at 5 mph” and would take “approximately two weeks to travel from the Gulf Coast to New York.”


I would expect based on this assessment that there is still plenty of fuel in the pipeline that will help alleviate the situation once the pressure builds up.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
WIederling
Posts: 10033
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Thu May 13, 2021 6:59 am

Aesma wrote:
Okie wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Did Tesla see a surge in orders ?


No the electrical grid is more vulnerable than the pipeline.

Okie


But you can make your own electricity. Gas, not really.


There is wood gas(isfier) around:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas# ... ion_engine

Lots of use to the end of WWII here.
Murphy is an optimist
 
WIederling
Posts: 10033
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Thu May 13, 2021 7:03 am

casinterest wrote:
I would expect based on this assessment that there is still plenty of fuel in the pipeline that will help alleviate the situation once the pressure builds up.


How do you want to "empty" a pipeline?

They all work by "push something in on one end and stuff will come out the other end".

( product changes are by inserting a divider thingy that gets pushed forward in the pipeline.
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14275
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Thu May 13, 2021 2:19 pm

WIederling wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Okie wrote:

No the electrical grid is more vulnerable than the pipeline.

Okie


But you can make your own electricity. Gas, not really.


There is wood gas(isfier) around:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_gas# ... ion_engine

Lots of use to the end of WWII here.


I'm not sure it would be easy to make one for a modern car though.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13367
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Thu May 13, 2021 2:52 pm

WIederling wrote:
casinterest wrote:
I would expect based on this assessment that there is still plenty of fuel in the pipeline that will help alleviate the situation once the pressure builds up.


How do you want to "empty" a pipeline?

They all work by "push something in on one end and stuff will come out the other end".

( product changes are by inserting a divider thingy that gets pushed forward in the pipeline.


It's a 5500 mile network of pipeline. It takes 18 days to pump fuel from Houston up to NYC on the main line.
They have only stopped pumping for 5 days. It was not totally empty.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8998
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Thu May 13, 2021 5:11 pm

Aesma wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

They’ve had years to get caught up but spent most of 2011-12 lobbying the GOP to get Senator Lieberman’s cybersecurity bill nixed. World’s smallest violin.


It's the world's biggest headache. Usually these issues happen because a non-discerning person clicks on the wrong link, and let's in a small file that helps take down everything. Cybersecurity bill or not, the issue is the folks on the inside that open the front door.


My (very large) company was hit by a ransomware attack. Plenty of security failures were involved. Now, the infrastructure is much more secure, for example there are no admin accounts able to do all kinds of thing on all kinds of servers. Instead there are myriad accounts, each with limited rights. Same for the network, each application is vetted, only the needed ports/protocols allowed, segregation left and right, etc. Makes my life (in IT) much more difficult, but dealing with that cyberattack was a nightmare, and I was nowhere near the heart of it (nowhere near having any responsibility for it either, in fact my servers run Linux and weren't affected).


Business contingency planning is another theater, at least in the USA. Billions are spent on it with detailed paper plans based on hypothesis and only tabletop exercises, with no real testing. No verified manual recovery procedures and no experienced manpower. It is just a gamble assuming never happens.

You can never offer 100% safe IT solution, when it comes to utilities, isolating critical systems and manual recovery is key. But that is not going to happen because most of the experts want to touch a SCADA screen and expect magic to happen.
All posts are just opinions.
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Topic Author
Posts: 7908
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Fri May 14, 2021 12:08 pm

CNN, the New York Times, Bloomberg and the Wall Street Journal all reported a $5m ransom was paid, citing sources.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57112371

Would the FBI have had to authorise this?
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4806
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Fri May 14, 2021 12:33 pm

I think generally US authorities recommend against paying ransom, but do not (in fact cannot) forbid it.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
WIederling
Posts: 10033
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Fri May 14, 2021 1:10 pm

casinterest wrote:
WIederling wrote:
casinterest wrote:
I would expect based on this assessment that there is still plenty of fuel in the pipeline that will help alleviate the situation once the pressure builds up.


How do you want to "empty" a pipeline?

They all work by "push something in on one end and stuff will come out the other end".

( product changes are by inserting a divider thingy that gets pushed forward in the pipeline.


It's a 5500 mile network of pipeline. It takes 18 days to pump fuel from Houston up to NYC on the main line.
They have only stopped pumping for 5 days. It was not totally empty.


your concept of how a pipeline for liquids works is faulty?

It is not a train of buckets.
If you do not pump anything into one end nothing comes out the other end.
What is in the pipeline stays there until ... you start pumping again.

You can run a gas ( natural gas not petrol ) pipeline "dry" i.e down to zero pressure
and reclaim most of the "stored in pipe" gas.
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13367
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Fri May 14, 2021 1:49 pm

WIederling wrote:
casinterest wrote:
WIederling wrote:

How do you want to "empty" a pipeline?

They all work by "push something in on one end and stuff will come out the other end".

( product changes are by inserting a divider thingy that gets pushed forward in the pipeline.


It's a 5500 mile network of pipeline. It takes 18 days to pump fuel from Houston up to NYC on the main line.
They have only stopped pumping for 5 days. It was not totally empty.


your concept of how a pipeline for liquids works is faulty?

It is not a train of buckets.
If you do not pump anything into one end nothing comes out the other end.
What is in the pipeline stays there until ... you start pumping again.

You can run a gas ( natural gas not petrol ) pipeline "dry" i.e down to zero pressure
and reclaim most of the "stored in pipe" gas.



This pipeline in the US has many "storage stations" along the way. It is enough for 10-20 days of operation in the tanks. The gas is still coming out of the pipeline, but they had to manually operate valves for 5 days, instead of using the computer controls.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22085
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Mon May 17, 2021 4:40 am

Do the gas stations have gasoline? Are planes still tankering a lot, or is operations back to normal?
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 14576
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Mon May 17, 2021 4:52 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Aesma wrote:
casinterest wrote:

It's the world's biggest headache. Usually these issues happen because a non-discerning person clicks on the wrong link, and let's in a small file that helps take down everything. Cybersecurity bill or not, the issue is the folks on the inside that open the front door.


My (very large) company was hit by a ransomware attack. Plenty of security failures were involved. Now, the infrastructure is much more secure, for example there are no admin accounts able to do all kinds of thing on all kinds of servers. Instead there are myriad accounts, each with limited rights. Same for the network, each application is vetted, only the needed ports/protocols allowed, segregation left and right, etc. Makes my life (in IT) much more difficult, but dealing with that cyberattack was a nightmare, and I was nowhere near the heart of it (nowhere near having any responsibility for it either, in fact my servers run Linux and weren't affected).


Business contingency planning is another theater, at least in the USA. Billions are spent on it with detailed paper plans based on hypothesis and only tabletop exercises, with no real testing. No verified manual recovery procedures and no experienced manpower. It is just a gamble assuming never happens.

You can never offer 100% safe IT solution, when it comes to utilities, isolating critical systems and manual recovery is key. But that is not going to happen because most of the experts want to touch a SCADA screen and expect magic to happen.


So true :lol: Snowing over clients with one-touch 'security' is a whole industry unto itself.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 5446
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Mon May 17, 2021 4:53 am

Wake up call on the need of strengthening infrastructure cybersecurity
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
A placeholder line
You are now at your youngest moment in your remaining life.
 
WIederling
Posts: 10033
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Mon May 17, 2021 6:37 am

c933103 wrote:
Wake up call on the need of strengthening infrastructure cybersecurity


"Do unto others ... "

has come home to roost.
Murphy is an optimist
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 5446
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: US fuel pipeline cyber-attack, fuel shortages maybe

Mon May 17, 2021 8:46 am

WIederling wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Wake up call on the need of strengthening infrastructure cybersecurity


"Do unto others ... "

has come home to roost.

The good news for America is this is just a hacker group looking for profit instead of someone really try to hurt the US, if the later is the case, with the status of American infrastructure cybersecurity nowadays, the damage will be much more severe
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
A placeholder line
You are now at your youngest moment in your remaining life.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], BHMNONREV, descl, mbmbos, tommy1808 and 106 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos