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Aaron747
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Sat May 15, 2021 7:21 am

Pellegrine wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Why the hell is the US involved in this conflict


Some nonsense about Israel being the only democracy in the "Middle East", and why that is important.


Abject nonsense considering our relations with Jordan, UAE, and the House of Saud. Not to mention the latter are busy with ethnic cleansing of a neighbor too.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Sat May 15, 2021 9:11 am

Pellegrine wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Why the hell is the US involved in this conflict


Some nonsense about Israel being the only democracy in the "Middle East", and why that is important.


Personally I think it's America's way of atoning for its sins during World War 2. Remember, the then American government denied Jewish refugees from Europe from landing in America.

https://www.history.com/news/wwii-jewis ... louis-1939
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sierrakilo44
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Sat May 15, 2021 12:59 pm

sbworcs wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

It's not Israel that is the problem - they are not a permanent member of the UNSC. A resolution would be needed, and it is unlikely the US would vote yes. Even if there is a majority of votes on the UNSC, a 'no' from any permanent member tanks the resolution. This is a fundamental problem with the UNSC - the P5 are often at the center of these issues.


Totally agree - the UNSC is hampered in doing anything in many situations because one of the "big" 5 permanent members will veto in line with domestic and / or international policies. It is long overdue a change in both membership and how it operates.

The issue was discussed by the UN back in 2018 https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/ga12091.doc.htm but did not seem to get anywhere - any change to the status quo on the UNSC is likley to need to the backing of the current 5 permanent members - and they are not likley to vote to remove the unbalanced amount of power they hold - it would be like turkey's voting for christmas.



Remember UNSC Resolution 2334 in 2016 that Obama decided to abstain on, the only time in history, condemning Israel for building settlements but imposing no punitive actions?

Israeli didn’t take it well, recalling ambassadors, telling Jews to move out of countries that voted for it, stopped paying dues to the UN, withdrew from UN poverty programs and cancelled visas for UN staff.

Of course the US House of Reps strongly condemned Obama’s move and it won’t happen again.
 
art
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Sat May 15, 2021 1:09 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
It has been an eventful month in Jerusalem, with continued police actions against uprising by Palestinians who are being forcibly evicted from East Jerusalem. This culminated in rocket attacks from Hamas in Gaza, and airstrikes from the IDF in response.


I have not heard anyone suggest the simplest of solutions: Israel reverses its policy of evicting the inhabitants of east Jerusalem from their homes.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Sat May 15, 2021 1:44 pm

art wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
It has been an eventful month in Jerusalem, with continued police actions against uprising by Palestinians who are being forcibly evicted from East Jerusalem. This culminated in rocket attacks from Hamas in Gaza, and airstrikes from the IDF in response.


I have not heard anyone suggest the simplest of solutions: Israel reverses its policy of evicting the inhabitants of east Jerusalem from their homes.


I said as much and then some in reply 60.

In other news, several Jewish members of Congress have written the WH urging recognition that Israel's occupation activities are worsening.

https://twitter.com/dylanotes/status/13 ... 93187?s=20
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zkojq
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Sat May 15, 2021 2:17 pm

So Israel now bombed and completely flattened the Associated Press and Al Jazeera's headquarters in Gaza. Don't want the media to be able to report on war crimes! I guess for a country who bombs refugee camps, UN hospitals and humanitarian ships we shouldn't be too surprised.

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — An Israeli airstrike destroyed a high-rise building in Gaza City that housed offices of The Associated Press and other media outlets hours after another Israeli air raid on a densely populated refugee camp killed at least 10 Palestinians from an extended family, mostly children, on Saturday.

The strike on the high-rise came nearly an hour after the military ordered people to evacuate the 12-story building, which also housed Al-Jazeera, other offices and residential apartments. The strike brought down the entire structure, which collapsed in a gigantic cloud of dust. There was no immediate explanation for why it was attacked.

The earlier Israeli airstrike on the Gaza City refugee camp was the deadliest single strike of the current conflict between Israel and the militant group Hamas. Both sides are pressing for an advantage as cease-fire efforts gather strength.


I look forwards to the IDF claiming that the building was yet another of Hamas' headquarters and for much of the international media to believe them.

https://twitter.com/StefanieDekker/stat ... 86445?s=19

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/1 ... -live-news

https://apnews.com/article/israel-west- ... 2f8c7d8a79
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casinterest
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sat May 15, 2021 3:41 pm

art wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Hamas are terrorists. That is why they are acting out now. They are not diplomats. They are not caring about families, or futures, or how to make the situation better. They are not making a plan to win the "struggle". They are looking to hurt others. So don't complain about Israel's Responsibilities to legal issues of displacing families and land grabs , when they have to protect everyone from missiles raining down indiscriminately from terrorists in Gaza.


'Terrorist' is often misused to label armed opponents to regimes with a pejorative term.

Your words of criticism 'They are not diplomats. They are not caring about families, or futures, or how to make the situation better.' could apply equally to both warring factions here.

Now, let's suppose that one faction decided to confiscate the land in east Jerusalem for its own use. Would any sane person expect those living in east Jerusalem not to resort to violence to try to stop that happening?

Now, let's suppose that one faction decided to confiscate the land in west Jerusalem for its own use. Would any sane person expect those living in west Jerusalem not to resort to violence to try to stop that happening?



Gaza is not in Jerusalem. Random Missiles are not negotiating items. The Israeli court system did not fire weapons to evict the settlers. There were still appeals left to be exhausted, and pressure from inside Israel was already on the court systems.

What Gaza and Hamas have done, is created a state of war, and encouraged the religious factions inside Israel to keep on going, and make it worse, because if it is War they want, then it is war they are going to get.

Hamas is worse than the Israeli court system by a long shot. They don't care where those rockets go, as long as they get more money to build more rockets and avoid building workable infrastructure in Gaza.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
JJJ
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sat May 15, 2021 4:46 pm

casinterest wrote:
What Gaza and Hamas have done, is created a state of war, and encouraged the religious factions inside Israel to keep on going, and make it worse, because if it is War they want, then it is war they are going to get.


A cursory look at the timelines will tell you it's the other way around.

It was Israel who put Hamas on the map, and it's Israel's actions that's keeping them up there, to the glee of extremists on both sides of the divide.

Israel holds the ultimate defuse button to the situation: settlements and right of return.
 
apodino
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Sat May 15, 2021 4:50 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Of course the US House of Reps strongly condemned Obama’s move and it won’t happen again.


Biden has no interest in allowing it to happen again, but that being said, the political situation in the House is different now than it was back then. For starters, the GOP controlled congress back then, and any chance that they had to hurt Obama politically they took advantage of, this situation being one of them. Secondly, many of the Democrats who have come to Congress since then are much more Hawkish on the middle east situation, and this is actually creating some tensions inside the Democratic Caucus. A lot of thinking on the left these days is that Israel themselves are not blameless, and while Hamas is bad, that does not give Israel the right to basically hold Gaza Strip as a "prison Colony" for lack of a better term, nor to keep killing innocent Palestinian civilians. It also appears to me that Israel keeps trying to take land that was ceded to the Palestinians, and by constantly showing strong Military force, it actually empowers Hamas more than than it hurts them, which does not help the situation. Every progressive talk show this week has been very critical of the Biden administration for their silence on this issue, and for them taking Israel's side on this. Still, even if Biden were to listen to progressives, there is enough support on the Democratic side for Israel (Despite pro-israel establishment dems like Eliot Engel getting primaried) coupled with what would certainly be near unanimous GOP support for Israel that the same thing would happen. One other interesting factor is one of the leaders of the pro-Palestinian camp is Ilhan Omar. There is a sizeable Jewish population in Omar's district, and I am very good friends with a Jewish family in her district. The risk for her is that the Jewish Vote could turn on her if she is seen as too anti-israel, and she could fall victim to a primary challenger depending on how the Minnesota Congressional Districts are redrawn. However, her views were already known last election and she handily defeated a primary challenger, so this risk is minimal.


The other factor at play here is that Israel does not have a functioning Government at the moment either because Bibi has failed to do so even after four elections. This, mired with the Corruption scandal that he is facing has put him in a difficult place Politically, and this may be a way for him to capture some of that back. The country appears likely to head to a fifth election. Honestly, I think Bibi just needs to step down and allow someone else to try to form a Government. I don't think Bibi is in a position to lead Israel right now, and it seems right now that he cares more about hanging on to power, than doing what is best for Israel.


One other thing that was not a good look was a CNN interview with a Palestinian resident of the West Bank. One day after the the CNN interview, he was evicted from his apartment and arrested without cause. it is no wonder that the Palestinian people are afraid, and why many people feel that Israel is committing Genocide. As I said before, Israel is not blameless, and one thing that I think could be done is for the US to reduce military aid to Israel. I don't see that happening though because too many US defense contractors benefit from this situation.
 
bennett123
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Sat May 15, 2021 4:51 pm

Not defending Hamas, but what other options do Palestinians have?.
 
art
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sat May 15, 2021 5:12 pm

casinterest wrote:
art wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Hamas are terrorists. That is why they are acting out now. They are not diplomats. They are not caring about families, or futures, or how to make the situation better. They are not making a plan to win the "struggle". They are looking to hurt others. So don't complain about Israel's Responsibilities to legal issues of displacing families and land grabs , when they have to protect everyone from missiles raining down indiscriminately from terrorists in Gaza.


'Terrorist' is often misused to label armed opponents to regimes with a pejorative term.

Your words of criticism 'They are not diplomats. They are not caring about families, or futures, or how to make the situation better.' could apply equally to both warring factions here.

Now, let's suppose that one faction decided to confiscate the land in east Jerusalem for its own use. Would any sane person expect those living in east Jerusalem not to resort to violence to try to stop that happening?

Now, let's suppose that one faction decided to confiscate the land in west Jerusalem for its own use. Would any sane person expect those living in west Jerusalem not to resort to violence to try to stop that happening?



Gaza is not in Jerusalem. Random Missiles are not negotiating items. The Israeli court system did not fire weapons to evict the settlers. There were still appeals left to be exhausted, and pressure from inside Israel was already on the court systems.

What Gaza and Hamas have done, is created a state of war, and encouraged the religious factions inside Israel to keep on going, and make it worse, because if it is War they want, then it is war they are going to get.

Hamas is worse than the Israeli court system by a long shot. They don't care where those rockets go, as long as they get more money to build more rockets and avoid building workable infrastructure in Gaza.


Can I put my cards on the table? I look at the conduct of religious states, for example Israel, Iran, Northern Ireland et al and have developed a true loathing for them - the suppression of human beings of differing beliefs, the sanctioning of injustice in a religious cause, the bigotry and hatred they engender and prolong. Here we are talking about a state called Israel which illegally under international law continues a military occupation of land east of the River Jordan, installs religious zealots in areas of occupied land at the cost of the locals, stifles the economy of surrounding territories as it wishes etc and now is in the process of doing to the residents of East Jerusalem what the Nazis in the 1930's did to the Jews of Germany (stripping them of their property). In the Nazi system the Jews were the Untermenschen and the Germans the Ubermenschen. The tables have turned: for Israel the Arabs are the Untermenschen and the Jews the Ubermenschen.

I don't follow what you are saying about the Israeli court system above but not to worry because I am not interested in the adjudications of Israeli courts regarding any unjust religiously motivated laws passed by the Israeli government.

You appear to condone the imposition of absurd injustice (summary confiscation of property because the government of Israel says so) yet are aggrieved that the injured parties should react violently. Sure, the injured parties will probably not receive justice in a state intent on advancing the Jewish expansionist cause but do you seriously think that human beings will quietly accede to being stripped of their possessions because some idiotic religious faction would like them gone?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Sat May 15, 2021 10:57 pm

This short documentary encapsulates the power gap in this situation.

https://youtu.be/aJYS6Gf3hgY

The Palestinian guy featured is a successful immigrant in Germany, who earned German citizenship. Yet when he attempts to visit his family in Gaza, he learns Israeli authorities refuse to recognize his German passport (WTF) and if he enters Gaza, he will be considered a returnee, not a visitor. They will not give any timeline or guarantee of when he’ll be allowed to leave once entered. It’s stunning to see.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Sat May 15, 2021 11:44 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Remember UNSC Resolution 2334 in 2016 that Obama decided to abstain on, the only time in history, condemning Israel for building settlements but imposing no punitive actions?

Israeli didn’t take it well, recalling ambassadors, telling Jews to move out of countries that voted for it, stopped paying dues to the UN, withdrew from UN poverty programs and cancelled visas for UN staff.

Of course the US House of Reps strongly condemned Obama’s move and it won’t happen again.


Didn't Obama abstain because by then he was already a lame duck president?
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casinterest
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 3:19 pm

art wrote:
casinterest wrote:
art wrote:

'Terrorist' is often misused to label armed opponents to regimes with a pejorative term.

Your words of criticism 'They are not diplomats. They are not caring about families, or futures, or how to make the situation better.' could apply equally to both warring factions here.

Now, let's suppose that one faction decided to confiscate the land in east Jerusalem for its own use. Would any sane person expect those living in east Jerusalem not to resort to violence to try to stop that happening?

Now, let's suppose that one faction decided to confiscate the land in west Jerusalem for its own use. Would any sane person expect those living in west Jerusalem not to resort to violence to try to stop that happening?



Gaza is not in Jerusalem. Random Missiles are not negotiating items. The Israeli court system did not fire weapons to evict the settlers. There were still appeals left to be exhausted, and pressure from inside Israel was already on the court systems.

What Gaza and Hamas have done, is created a state of war, and encouraged the religious factions inside Israel to keep on going, and make it worse, because if it is War they want, then it is war they are going to get.

Hamas is worse than the Israeli court system by a long shot. They don't care where those rockets go, as long as they get more money to build more rockets and avoid building workable infrastructure in Gaza.


Can I put my cards on the table? I look at the conduct of religious states, for example Israel, Iran, Northern Ireland et al and have developed a true loathing for them - the suppression of human beings of differing beliefs, the sanctioning of injustice in a religious cause, the bigotry and hatred they engender and prolong. Here we are talking about a state called Israel which illegally under international law continues a military occupation of land east of the River Jordan, installs religious zealots in areas of occupied land at the cost of the locals, stifles the economy of surrounding territories as it wishes etc and now is in the process of doing to the residents of East Jerusalem what the Nazis in the 1930's did to the Jews of Germany (stripping them of their property). In the Nazi system the Jews were the Untermenschen and the Germans the Ubermenschen. The tables have turned: for Israel the Arabs are the Untermenschen and the Jews the Ubermenschen.

I don't follow what you are saying about the Israeli court system above but not to worry because I am not interested in the adjudications of Israeli courts regarding any unjust religiously motivated laws passed by the Israeli government.

You appear to condone the imposition of absurd injustice (summary confiscation of property because the government of Israel says so) yet are aggrieved that the injured parties should react violently. Sure, the injured parties will probably not receive justice in a state intent on advancing the Jewish expansionist cause but do you seriously think that human beings will quietly accede to being stripped of their possessions because some idiotic religious faction would like them gone?


You are ignoring some interesting issues when making the above arguments.

1. Israel is a democracy. A flawed one, but one that can be changed from within. There are movements in Israel that are tired of the very issue of the settlements. Those issues will work themselves out within a few decades. Ultimately it will all be about capitalistic land transactions instead of religious claims to land.
2, I have no issues with protests over the land grabs.
3. I have big issues with indescriminate terroristic attacks from Gaza, Hamas, and Hezbollah.
4. The Palestinians for as messed up a situation as they are in keep making it worse by allowing Hama to run the government. Hamas is a terrorist organization that has a charter and purpose to wipe out Israel.

https://www.newsweek.com/hamas-gaza-lea ... arm-689585

Hamas's leader in the Gaza Strip has said the Islamist group is focused on wiping out the state of Israel and has no intention of disarming.


So whether you feel sorry for people threatened by losing their home, which is a sympathetic issue, it does not help when the other side plans annihilation.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
WIederling
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 3:36 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Why the hell is the US involved in this conflict


Some nonsense about Israel being the only democracy in the "Middle East", and why that is important.


Say the wrong words and jewish interests will be all over you worse than the GunFans.
Career Termination.

This is getting traction as a sharp knife to suppress all negative commentary on Israeli politics:
https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Issues/ ... Annex1.pdf

Israel has successfully sabotaged any and all progress towards a a more or less civil coexistence.
( all cloaked in perfumed words to hide the bad smell.)

Look at Israels border as set up by the UN grant.
Look at their borders today and
count the Jews settling in the _designated Palestinian territory_ WestBank.
They appear to hold 100% control over vital resources ( Water, .. )

Counter to the BE in India there is no limit on Schrecklichkeit dished out due to their perception of being the underdog.
anything goes.
Murphy is an optimist
 
art
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 3:52 pm

casinterest wrote:
So whether you feel sorry for people threatened by losing their home, which is a sympathetic issue, it does not help when the other side plans annihilation.


Thanks for your thoughtful response.

I would say this: I think I know the difference between right and wrong. What I see as right or wrong is not altered by whether it is to my advantage or furthers my cause.

If I should have the power to dispossess my neighbour, I am 100% aware that if I should do that, my action would be wrong. I would be aware that my misdeed might very well provoke a violent reaction. I would not endeavour to punish my neighbour for resorting to violence in that situation. Not so those wielding power in the state of Israel.

Israeli policy is to pursue the indefensible. Israel seems to be a sociopathic state.

Hamas' actions are loathsome to me. Israel's actions are loathsome to me.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 4:02 pm

art wrote:
casinterest wrote:
So whether you feel sorry for people threatened by losing their home, which is a sympathetic issue, it does not help when the other side plans annihilation.


Thanks for your thoughtful response.

I would say this: I think I know the difference between right and wrong. What I see as right or wrong is not altered by whether it is to my advantage or furthers my cause.

If I should have the power to dispossess my neighbour, I am 100% aware that if I should do that, my action would be wrong. I would be aware that my misdeed might very well provoke a violent reaction. I would not endeavour to punish my neighbour for resorting to violence in that situation. Not so those wielding power in the state of Israel.

Israeli policy is to pursue the indefensible. Israel seems to be a sociopathic state.

Hamas' actions are loathsome to me. Israel's actions are loathsome to me.


Can’t really encapsulate things more succinctly than that.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 4:13 pm

art wrote:
casinterest wrote:
So whether you feel sorry for people threatened by losing their home, which is a sympathetic issue, it does not help when the other side plans annihilation.


Thanks for your thoughtful response.

I would say this: I think I know the difference between right and wrong. What I see as right or wrong is not altered by whether it is to my advantage or furthers my cause.

If I should have the power to dispossess my neighbour, I am 100% aware that if I should do that, my action would be wrong. I would be aware that my misdeed might very well provoke a violent reaction. I would not endeavour to punish my neighbour for resorting to violence in that situation. Not so those wielding power in the state of Israel.

Israeli policy is to pursue the indefensible. Israel seems to be a sociopathic state.

Hamas' actions are loathsome to me. Israel's actions are loathsome to me.


When it is all loathsome, we have to stand back and watch. It does not get better when the violence is instigated. It gets worse. And this tit for tat is nothing new. it happens all the time. And Hamas is usually the agitator out of Gaza.

As for the land issue in Jerusalem, it still has not been settled in the courts.

https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/how-evicti ... n-violence\

The Israeli Supreme Court was scheduled to take up the question of evictions in Sheikh Jarrah on May 10 but decided to postpone the ruling until early June because it coincided with Jerusalem Day, a holiday in Israel to celebrate the reunification of the city after the Six-Day War. It typically features a parade of flag-waving Israelis through the city, including its Arab neighborhoods. This year, the march took place as scheduled despite the escalation of violence.


If this was normal real estate the issue would be of rent. it hasn't been paid in 50 years.

Because Israel’s courts have found that evictions are consistent with Israeli law, the government asserts that the Jewish residents are within their rights to displace the Palestinians who have not paid rent and thus have lost their status as “protected tenants.” Yet, most countries do not recognize Israel’s sovereignty in East Jerusalem; they and the Palestinians claim that the evictions violate international law


In fact the claim on the land comes from before Jordan took over the land (1875 Jewish land title that was lost in an occupation by Jordan)



https://www.jns.org/sheikh-jarrah-a-legal-background/.

What is the chronology?

Sheikh Jarrah is an Arab neighborhood that developed outside the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem in the 19th century.

According to Israel’s Supreme Court, the land in question was purchased by the local Ashkenazi and Sephardi communities from its Arab owners in 1875, primarily because of the area’s religious significance in housing the tomb of “Simeon the Just.” The property was registered in the Ottoman land registry as a trust under the name of rabbis Avraham Ashkenazi and Meir Auerbach.

A small Jewish community lived there peacefully in co-existence with the local Arab community until 1948, when the War of Independence broke out.

The Jewish owners had tried to register ownership of the property with the authorities of the British Mandate in 1946.

When the War of Independence broke out in 1948, the Old City of Jerusalem and its surrounding area, including Sheikh Jarrah, was captured by Transjordan (now Jordan) and the Jewish families were forcibly evicted. Custodianship of the property was transferred to the Jordanian Custodian of Enemy Properties. In 1956, the Jordanian government leased the property to 28 families of Palestinian “refugees,” while maintaining ownership of the property.

After the Six-Day War in 1967, when Israel regained control of Jerusalem, it passed a law allowing Jews whose families were evicted by Jordanian or British authorities in the city prior to 1967 to reclaim their property, provided they could demonstrate proof of ownership and the existing residents were unable to provide such proof of purchase or legal transfer of title.

In 1973, ownership of the property was registered by Sephardic Community Committee and the Knesset Israel Committee with Israeli authorities pursuant to the above law.

Subsequently, in 2003, the owners sold the property to “Nahalat Shimon,” an Israeli NGO that seeks to reclaim property for Jews evicted or forced to flee as a result of the 1948 War of Independence.



So the land issue in Jerusalem is highly complicated.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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Pellegrine
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 4:13 pm

WIederling wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Why the hell is the US involved in this conflict


Some nonsense about Israel being the only democracy in the "Middle East", and why that is important.


Say the wrong words and jewish interests will be all over you worse than the GunFans.
Career Termination.

This is getting traction as a sharp knife to suppress all negative commentary on Israeli politics:
https://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Issues/ ... Annex1.pdf

Israel has successfully sabotaged any and all progress towards a a more or less civil coexistence.
( all cloaked in perfumed words to hide the bad smell.)

Look at Israels border as set up by the UN grant.
Look at their borders today and
count the Jews settling in the _designated Palestinian territory_ WestBank.
They appear to hold 100% control over vital resources ( Water, .. )

Counter to the BE in India there is no limit on Schrecklichkeit dished out due to their perception of being the underdog.
anything goes.


I don't worry about some old tired crunchy men mouthing off from their hospital bed, they've been saying the same mess since I was a teenager. Bibi should worry about his corruption case. Now due to social media their tower of lies is crumbling. If they weren't so greedy, they could have solved this issue unilaterally years ago. Old, tired, musty, smelly, goofy m*********** in my DMs.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys. Citizenship/Residence::: Washington DC, US; Vaud, CH; Providenciales, TCI (hence my avi)
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 4:27 pm

And for what? Some 2000 year old supernatural scribblings. Those who can make you believe absurdities can also make you commit atrocities. The Abrahamic religions reduce men to immature boys who love to play war.
 
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par13del
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 4:34 pm

Aesma wrote:
Well that right there is my main problem with Israel. Israel is a country made by Europeans in the Middle East.

Hence the reason why using history as far back as one would like to go will not help the current situation or resolve it, the question is, were there Jews living in the Middle East before the creation of your European colony?

We know this debate will go around in circles, we also know how the current crisis will go on and end, so what has changed from the last time, as I said earlier, wash, rinse and repeat. Only major difference I see now is the higher amount of resources the Palestinians in the Gaza strip have devoted to their military industrial complex, launching thousands of rockets in a few days is an impressive display of inventory, especially when we are told basic humanitarian items cannot be sourced.
Perhaps those in Gaza should have waited until things had further settled down in Syria, then they may have been able to count on 3 fronts being done at once, Gaza, civil war between Jews and Arabs in Israel and Hez joining in southern Lebanon.
 
JJJ
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 5:05 pm

casinterest wrote:
A small Jewish community lived there peacefully in co-existence with the local Arab community until 1948, when the War of Independence broke out.

(...)

So the land issue in Jerusalem is highly complicated.


Not complicated at all. If Israeli courts can award property rights based on pre-48 purchases I'm sure they'll have no problem doing the same to Arab owners expelled from their neighborhoods at around the same time.

Deal?
 
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 5:25 pm

JJJ wrote:
If Israeli courts can award property rights based on pre-48 purchase

If Israeli courts make such decisions, then by default that means Israel accepts a single state solution. Otherwise Israeli courts could not judge over Palestinian territories.
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casinterest
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 5:57 pm

JJJ wrote:
casinterest wrote:
A small Jewish community lived there peacefully in co-existence with the local Arab community until 1948, when the War of Independence broke out.

(...)

So the land issue in Jerusalem is highly complicated.


Not complicated at all. If Israeli courts can award property rights based on pre-48 purchases I'm sure they'll have no problem doing the same to Arab owners expelled from their neighborhoods at around the same time.

Deal?

False equivalency. Jordon made it's claim on East Jerusalem as Israel formed a country.
Do they pay rent on it currently, and are citizens of Israel?

https://www.meforum.org/370/can-arabs-b ... -in-israel

While often repeated, these assertions are based on misconception, error and outright invention. In fact, most of the land in Israel is government-owned, and it is equally available to all Israelis, whether Jewish or Arab
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
JJJ
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 6:07 pm

casinterest wrote:
JJJ wrote:
casinterest wrote:
A small Jewish community lived there peacefully in co-existence with the local Arab community until 1948, when the War of Independence broke out.

(...)

So the land issue in Jerusalem is highly complicated.


Not complicated at all. If Israeli courts can award property rights based on pre-48 purchases I'm sure they'll have no problem doing the same to Arab owners expelled from their neighborhoods at around the same time.

Deal?

False equivalency. Jordon made it's claim on East Jerusalem as Israel formed a country.
Do they pay rent on it currently, and are citizens of Israel?

https://www.meforum.org/370/can-arabs-b ... -in-israel

While often repeated, these assertions are based on misconception, error and outright invention. In fact, most of the land in Israel is government-owned, and it is equally available to all Israelis, whether Jewish or Arab


Palestinians use the shekel, pay Israeli taxes and their ID cards are issued by the PA but vetted by Israel.

They don't have representation in the Knesset or equal access to justice.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 6:10 pm

JJJ wrote:
casinterest wrote:
JJJ wrote:

Not complicated at all. If Israeli courts can award property rights based on pre-48 purchases I'm sure they'll have no problem doing the same to Arab owners expelled from their neighborhoods at around the same time.

Deal?

False equivalency. Jordon made it's claim on East Jerusalem as Israel formed a country.
Do they pay rent on it currently, and are citizens of Israel?

https://www.meforum.org/370/can-arabs-b ... -in-israel

While often repeated, these assertions are based on misconception, error and outright invention. In fact, most of the land in Israel is government-owned, and it is equally available to all Israelis, whether Jewish or Arab


Palestinians use the shekel, pay Israeli taxes and their ID cards are issued by the PA but vetted by Israel.

They don't have representation in the Knesset or equal access to justice.



They chose Hamas in order to delay any eventual negotiation on state hood.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
JJJ
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 6:27 pm

casinterest wrote:
JJJ wrote:
casinterest wrote:
False equivalency. Jordon made it's claim on East Jerusalem as Israel formed a country.
Do they pay rent on it currently, and are citizens of Israel?

https://www.meforum.org/370/can-arabs-b ... -in-israel



Palestinians use the shekel, pay Israeli taxes and their ID cards are issued by the PA but vetted by Israel.

They don't have representation in the Knesset or equal access to justice.



They chose Hamas in order to delay any eventual negotiation on state hood.


There was no PA for decades (nor were Palestinians allowed to vote in Israeli elections).

For 15 years the power was in the hands of Fatah, while Israel propped Hamas to undermine their support (Arafat famously talked about Hamas as the creation of Israel), and Fatah rule in the West Bank is still ongoing 30 years after the creation of the PA.
 
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 10:49 pm

JJJ wrote:
casinterest wrote:
JJJ wrote:

Palestinians use the shekel, pay Israeli taxes and their ID cards are issued by the PA but vetted by Israel.

They don't have representation in the Knesset or equal access to justice.



They chose Hamas in order to delay any eventual negotiation on state hood.


There was no PA for decades (nor were Palestinians allowed to vote in Israeli elections).

For 15 years the power was in the hands of Fatah, while Israel propped Hamas to undermine their support (Arafat famously talked about Hamas as the creation of Israel), and Fatah rule in the West Bank is still ongoing 30 years after the creation of the PA.


Hamas came about through the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. Affiliations They were against the PLO which eventually recognized Israel's existence. The PLO exists now as a shell of a memory. See the pattern? .
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 11:04 pm

casinterest wrote:
art wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Hamas are terrorists. That is why they are acting out now. They are not diplomats. They are not caring about families, or futures, or how to make the situation better. They are not making a plan to win the "struggle". They are looking to hurt others. So don't complain about Israel's Responsibilities to legal issues of displacing families and land grabs , when they have to protect everyone from missiles raining down indiscriminately from terrorists in Gaza.


'Terrorist' is often misused to label armed opponents to regimes with a pejorative term.

Your words of criticism 'They are not diplomats. They are not caring about families, or futures, or how to make the situation better.' could apply equally to both warring factions here.

Now, let's suppose that one faction decided to confiscate the land in east Jerusalem for its own use. Would any sane person expect those living in east Jerusalem not to resort to violence to try to stop that happening?

Now, let's suppose that one faction decided to confiscate the land in west Jerusalem for its own use. Would any sane person expect those living in west Jerusalem not to resort to violence to try to stop that happening?



Gaza is not in Jerusalem. Random Missiles are not negotiating items. The Israeli court system did not fire weapons to evict the settlers. There were still appeals left to be exhausted, and pressure from inside Israel was already on the court systems.

What Gaza and Hamas have done, is created a state of war, and encouraged the religious factions inside Israel to keep on going, and make it worse, because if it is War they want, then it is war they are going to get.

Hamas is worse than the Israeli court system by a long shot. They don't care where those rockets go, as long as they get more money to build more rockets and avoid building workable infrastructure in Gaza.


When I started reading about Israel's formation, I couldn't help but to read about Irgun or Lehi (aka Stern Gang). Both were Zionist terrorist organizations that conducted indiscriminate bombings of civilians and even massacres like the Deir Yassin massacres. And thanks to their actions, the Zionists got what they wanted - Israel.

So what's so different about Hamas's fight for Palestinian sovereignty? (Besides the point that the Israelis don't capitulate easily like the bloody British did).

In any case I find it hard that Israel, being the advanced military power that it is, is unable to conduct surgical strikes against Hamas that ensures reduced civilian casualties.
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casinterest
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 11:20 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
casinterest wrote:
art wrote:

'Terrorist' is often misused to label armed opponents to regimes with a pejorative term.

Your words of criticism 'They are not diplomats. They are not caring about families, or futures, or how to make the situation better.' could apply equally to both warring factions here.

Now, let's suppose that one faction decided to confiscate the land in east Jerusalem for its own use. Would any sane person expect those living in east Jerusalem not to resort to violence to try to stop that happening?

Now, let's suppose that one faction decided to confiscate the land in west Jerusalem for its own use. Would any sane person expect those living in west Jerusalem not to resort to violence to try to stop that happening?



Gaza is not in Jerusalem. Random Missiles are not negotiating items. The Israeli court system did not fire weapons to evict the settlers. There were still appeals left to be exhausted, and pressure from inside Israel was already on the court systems.

What Gaza and Hamas have done, is created a state of war, and encouraged the religious factions inside Israel to keep on going, and make it worse, because if it is War they want, then it is war they are going to get.

Hamas is worse than the Israeli court system by a long shot. They don't care where those rockets go, as long as they get more money to build more rockets and avoid building workable infrastructure in Gaza.


When I started reading about Israel's formation, I couldn't help but to read about Irgun or Lehi (aka Stern Gang). Both were Zionist terrorist organizations that conducted indiscriminate bombings of civilians and even massacres like the Deir Yassin massacres. And thanks to their actions, the Zionists got what they wanted - Israel.

So what's so different about Hamas's fight for Palestinian sovereignty? (Besides the point that the Israelis don't capitulate easily like the bloody British did).

In any case I find it hard that Israel, being the advanced military power that it is, is unable to conduct surgical strikes against Hamas that ensures reduced civilian casualties.


Israel is a democracy, and as such they are fighting defensively against Hamas. How accurate they are, we will have to learn through propoganda reports from both sides, but one thing no one talks about lately, and has been true in past battles is that about 10-20% of Hamas Rockets crash prior to leaving Gaza. So is all the devastation in Gaza the IDF's fault? We won't know, and we know that Hamas will attribute all the damage to Israel.

In the below article they mention that several rockets fall short, while also showing how difficult it is for Israel to go after the vast network of Tunnels Hamas has built to manufacture these weapons and funnel them in.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-bombs-hamas-gaza-chiefs-home-fighting-enters-seventh-day-2021-05-15/



Usually when Hamas decides to stop launching rockets, the IDF does as well, so once Hamas decides to stop launching rockets into Israel, then I expect things will clear up rather quickly in terms of death counts. ,

On the other side, as Hamas is a terrorist organization, is the UN ready to go in and act unilaterally as they did in Afghanistan and Iraq with Al Queda, and the Taliban?
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 11:41 pm

casinterest wrote:
Israel is a democracy, and as such they are fighting defensively against Hamas. How accurate they are, we will have to learn through propoganda reports from both sides, but one thing no one talks about lately, and has been true in past battles is that about 10-20% of Hamas Rockets crash prior to leaving Gaza. So is all the devastation in Gaza the IDF's fault? We won't know, and we know that Hamas will attribute all the damage to Israel.


How can you stand there and say Israel is fighting defensively against Hamas, when Israel started the conflict by trying to steal Palestinian lands in Sheikh Jarrah? How can you stand there and say Israel is fighting defensively against Hamas when Israeli forces stormed the Al-Aqsa mosque when Palestinian civilians were in the midst of praying there?

Israel was on the offensive, all because Bibi Netanyahu is about to lose power because he is unable to form a government. By right, it's Hamas and the Palestinians that are defending themselves.

casinterest wrote:
On the other side, as Hamas is a terrorist organization, is the UN ready to go in and act unilaterally as they did in Afghanistan and Iraq with Al Queda, and the Taliban?


Why should they? In truth the UN should act against Israel for constantly disrespecting resolutions after resolutions regarding illegal occupation of Palestinian lands, but because Israel has America's pecker in their pocket, nothing ever happens.
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casinterest
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 11:45 pm

[quote="TheFlyingDisk"']
How can you stand there and say Israel is fighting defensively against Hamas, when Israel started the conflict by trying to steal Palestinian lands in Sheikh.
[/quote]

Go back about 6 or seven posts. The real estate issue is still much in the air, and is not a cut and dried issue.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 11:47 pm

casinterest wrote:
[quote="TheFlyingDisk"']
How can you stand there and say Israel is fighting defensively against Hamas, when Israel started the conflict by trying to steal Palestinian lands in Sheikh.
[.quote]

Go back about 6 or seven posts. The real estate issue is still much in the air, and is not a cut and dried issue.[/quote]


It doesn't change a thing.

Israel is on the offensive. Period.
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casinterest
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 11:48 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
casinterest wrote:
[quote="TheFlyingDisk"']
How can you stand there and say Israel is fighting defensively against Hamas, when Israel started the conflict by trying to steal Palestinian lands in Sheikh.
[.quote]

Go back about 6 or seven posts. The real estate issue is still much in the air, and is not a cut and dried issue.[/quote][/quote]

It doesn't change a thing.

Israel is on the offensive. Period.[/quote]


Where? In Gaza? where all the terrorist rockets are launched from? Or in the propaganda machine?
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 11:52 pm

casinterest wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
casinterest wrote:
[quote="TheFlyingDisk"']
How can you stand there and say Israel is fighting defensively against Hamas, when Israel started the conflict by trying to steal Palestinian lands in Sheikh.
[.quote]

Go back about 6 or seven posts. The real estate issue is still much in the air, and is not a cut and dried issue.[/quote][/quote]

It doesn't change a thing.

Israel is on the offensive. Period.[/quote][/quote][/quote]

Where? In Gaza? where all the terrorist rockets are launched from? Or in the propaganda machine?[/quote]


You mean the rockets that were launched in response to Israel attacking Palestinian Muslims praying in the Al Aqsa mosque in the holy month of Ramadan? The rockets that were launched in response to Israel stealing Palestinian lands?
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casinterest
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 11:54 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
casinterest wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:


You mean the rockets that were launched in response to Israel attacking Palestinian Muslims praying in the Al Aqsa mosque in the holy month of Ramadan? The rockets that were launched in response to Israel stealing Palestinian lands?


So that makes terrorism OK with you?
Image
https://www.businessinsider.com/iron-do ... oto-2021-5
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Sun May 16, 2021 11:57 pm

casinterest wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
casinterest wrote:


You mean the rockets that were launched in response to Israel attacking Palestinian Muslims praying in the Al Aqsa mosque in the holy month of Ramadan? The rockets that were launched in response to Israel stealing Palestinian lands?


So that makes terrorism OK with you?
Image
https://www.businessinsider.com/iron-do ... oto-2021-5


Why is it terrorism when it's clear it was done in response to Israeli provocation? So the Palestinians have no right to defend themselves?

Because it looks to me like the US State Department doesn't believe that the Palestinians have a right to self defense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utKFxfmTIW8

You're being dishonest by ignoring acts of Israeli aggression prior to the rocket attacks.
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Re: Another Powderkeg in Israel

Mon May 17, 2021 4:33 am

casinterest wrote:
JJJ wrote:
casinterest wrote:


They chose Hamas in order to delay any eventual negotiation on state hood.


There was no PA for decades (nor were Palestinians allowed to vote in Israeli elections).

For 15 years the power was in the hands of Fatah, while Israel propped Hamas to undermine their support (Arafat famously talked about Hamas as the creation of Israel), and Fatah rule in the West Bank is still ongoing 30 years after the creation of the PA.


Hamas came about through the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. Affiliations They were against the PLO which eventually recognized Israel's existence. The PLO exists now as a shell of a memory. See the pattern? .


Hamas were one among the dozen irrelevant mini factions until Israel propped them up.

They funded them (and in return Hamas was non confrontational to Israel) because they opposed the secular PLO.
 
AirbusCheerlead
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Mon May 17, 2021 7:36 am

I have a heavy pro Palestinian bias in this ever during conflict.

To me, the blame game seams a futile exercise that will change nothing. And I can see only three possible solutions to end this conflict:
1) No Palestinian left there.
2) No Israeli left there.
3) 2 States solution.

Since solution 1 and 2 are absolutely inacceptable we are left with only the last solution.

While trying to come up with an other solution than the 2 states, is a nice intellectual exercice, I believe the very nature of the Israeli state makes those attempts futile.

As long as we don't have a border mutually agreed between Israeli and Palestinian, this conflict will last.

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entdoc
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Mon May 17, 2021 7:46 am

casinterest wrote:
Things are going poorly on the diplomatic front, and a barrage of rocket fire is causing damage all over.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 021-05-11/

We are now carrying out our promise," Hamas's armed wing said in a statement. "The Qassam Brigades are launching their biggest rocket strike against Tel Aviv and its suburbs, with 130 rockets, in response to the enemy’s targeting of residential towers."

Hours earlier, Israel had sent 80 jets to bomb Gaza and massed tanks on the border as rocket barrages hit Israeli towns for a second day, deepening a conflict in which at least 28 people in the Palestinian enclave and two in Israel have been killed.

Residents of the block and people living nearby had been warned to evacuate the area around an hour before the air strike, according to witnesses, and there were no reports of casualties two hours after it collapsed.


This will either get worse or not, depending on how the current court proceeding go in Jerusalem. It could be a long summer as that court case schedules the current eviction for Aug 1.

The court proceedings you speak of are an excuse. They involve a Jewish family with a property deed from the 1800s (!!) and the Arab tenants who acknowledge the deed but refuse to pay rent or reach any accommodation. In any other country this would be handled in a civil court and never reach the news. Hamas used this as an excuse to try and fulfill their charter of erasing the Jewish state from existence. Which in spite of al kinds of so called agreements has never changed.
How would the USA react if Mexico changed its constitution to include the erasure of the US and continually sit missiles at El Paso or San Diego???


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entdoc
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Mon May 17, 2021 7:59 am

Let’s get it down to a few facts
1- the world is divided into two groups. Those who rabidly hate Jews and those who hate Jews but tolerate them until the first opportunity to join the first group.
2- for the vast majority of the world for them to like a Jew ha has to be dead or on his way to the ovens.
3- if Arabs (hamas) would put down their weapons there would be peace even if imperfect (ref: Abraham accords)
If Israel would put down it’s weapons there would be no Israel. Plain and simple.


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JJJ
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Mon May 17, 2021 8:19 am

entdoc wrote:
How would the USA react if Mexico changed its constitution to include the erasure of the US and continually sit missiles at El Paso or San Diego???


How would Texas react to being subject to military occupation by the Federal Government, denied voting and property rights, restricted individual ability to reside, take employment, education and even work your own fields?
 
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Mon May 17, 2021 8:20 am

And for those who talk about Israeli apartheid or genocide:
In Israel there are Arab (who consider themselves Palestinians) doctors nurses midwives pharmacists bank managers judge’s Supreme Court justices Knesset members and even army officers.
Please show any Arab country where a Jew can serve in those capacities.
And where are the concentration camps where Israelis are committing this genocide??
To this day Israel treats Arab patients from all over including Gaza with the exact same level of care any Israeli gets. Yet if a Jew were to enter Gaza he would be dead before his first breath. And no medical personnel would come to help because they would be dead too. This even happens in Arab villages within Israel where the residents are full citizens. The people chop the limb off the very tree they sit on because of their hatred of the trunk/roots.
In what Arab country would they be better off? In what Arab country could a Jew even be a citizen??
In a two state solution Arabs continue to live in Israel. Yet Palestine is declared from the getgo to be judenrein.


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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Mon May 17, 2021 8:21 am

Yes a deed from 1800 is an excuse to take property from Palestinians, bud deeds from 1948 are no reason to give anything back to Palestinians, right ? Are you islamophobic by any chance (using the same rhetoric as you) ?

Do people think BDS will take hold ? Does Israel export a lot to the US to begin with ? Here in France we get some fruits from Israel, I never buy them. If I know something comes from there (from "occupied territory" or otherwise since Israel doesn't want the distinction being made) I don't buy it. I have done that for about 15 years, not really following a campaign to do so.
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Mon May 17, 2021 8:42 am

entdoc wrote:
Please show any Arab country where a Jew can serve in those capacities.


Many Arab Jews have left for Israel on their own accord, so Jews in Arab countries fell to insignificant numbers. In fact an Arab country with the most Arab Jews is Morocco where a Jew, Andre Azoulay, is a close advisor to the King of Morocco.

entdoc wrote:
And where are the concentration camps where Israelis are committing this genocide??


Sabra & Shatila, 1982. Israel knew about the planned massacre by the Lebanese Phalanges and did absolutely nothing to stop it. The man in charge, Ariel Sharon, later became PM.
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Mon May 17, 2021 8:44 am

entdoc wrote:
Let’s get it down to a few facts
1- the world is divided into two groups. Those who rabidly hate Jews and those who hate Jews but tolerate them until the first opportunity to join the first group.


Blimey! According to what you say, I don't exist! I did not realise it was a fact that I was not a fact. :smile:

You put people into two boxes, the hate the Jews rabidly now box and the hate the Jews rabidly ASAP box. There are more boxes in this world than the two you can see.
 
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Mon May 17, 2021 8:45 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
entdoc wrote:
Please show any Arab country where a Jew can serve in those capacities.


Many Arab Jews have left for Israel on their own accord, so Jews in Arab countries fell to insignificant numbers. In fact an Arab country with the most Arab Jews is Morocco where a Jew, Andre Azoulay, is a close advisor to the King of Morocco.

entdoc wrote:
And where are the concentration camps where Israelis are committing this genocide??


Sabra & Shatila, 1982. Israel knew about the planned massacre by the Lebanese Phalanges and did absolutely nothing to stop it. The man in charge, Ariel Sharon, later became PM.

All the German polish etc concentration camps. The world knew. People begged the us administration to bomb the train tracks to auschwitz. Nothing was done. The rest is known.


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entdoc
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Mon May 17, 2021 8:46 am

Aesma wrote:
Yes a deed from 1800 is an excuse to take property from Palestinians, bud deeds from 1948 are no reason to give anything back to Palestinians, right ? Are you islamophobic by any chance (using the same rhetoric as you) ?

Do people think BDS will take hold ? Does Israel export a lot to the US to begin with ? Here in France we get some fruits from Israel, I never buy them. If I know something comes from there (from "occupied territory" or otherwise since Israel doesn't want the distinction being made) I don't buy it. I have done that for about 15 years, not really following a campaign to do so.

Actually I work closely and in excellent harmony with many Arabs Druze etc.


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JJJ
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Mon May 17, 2021 8:52 am

entdoc wrote:
And for those who talk about Israeli apartheid or genocide:
In Israel there are Arab (who consider themselves Palestinians) doctors nurses midwives pharmacists bank managers judge’s Supreme Court justices Knesset members and even army officers.


That's not the question.

The question is why the largest part of Arab subjects of Israel can't access to any of those posts despite paying Israeli taxes, having their borders controlled by Israeli officers, their water controlled by Israeli agencies and so on.
 
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Re: Rocket attacks in Israel

Mon May 17, 2021 9:20 am

entdoc wrote:
All the German polish etc concentration camps. The world knew. People begged the us administration to bomb the train tracks to auschwitz. Nothing was done. The rest is known.


Stop trying to play the Holocaust card to cover up Israel's crimes.
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Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos