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airtechy
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Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 1:02 am

I guess that Delta was the first US airline to do this. In addition to giving their own employees confidence in the vaccinated state of the people they have to work with, it will also attract customers that liked the empty middle seats also. In the article, it says Delta has vaccinated 60 percent (expecting 80 percent) of their employees at a center set up at the Delta Flight Museum. I suspect that once other countries require flight crews to have the shot it will drag some of the hesitant 20 percent across the line.

I will be interesting to see if other airlines follow this action.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/14/business/delta-vaccine-mandatory-new-employees/index.html
 
airtran737
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 1:12 am

It's a bold strategy seeing as the vaccines have not been approved and are being administered via an exemption. That being said, I am holding out as long as possible I hope to be pulled off as many trips as possible and be pay protected to do nothing.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
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stl07
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 2:05 am

airtran737 wrote:
It's a bold strategy seeing as the vaccines have not been approved and are being administered via an exemption. That being said, I am holding out as long as possible I hope to be pulled off as many trips as possible and be pay protected to do nothing.

Pfizer is on the verge of a full approval, which is probably what prompted this
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
airtran737
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 2:11 am

stl07 wrote:
airtran737 wrote:
It's a bold strategy seeing as the vaccines have not been approved and are being administered via an exemption. That being said, I am holding out as long as possible I hope to be pulled off as many trips as possible and be pay protected to do nothing.

Pfizer is on the verge of a full approval, which is probably what prompted this


Once there is a vaccine that has full approval I will consider getting it. Until then I absolutely refuse to do so. I have reservations regarding the vaccines that use fetal cell lines due to how those lines were created, but that's for the non-av forum.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Pi7472000
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 2:22 am

That is good! They should require all current employees to be vaccinated as well!
 
Flflyer83
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Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:40 pm

Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 2:23 am

airtran737 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
airtran737 wrote:
It's a bold strategy seeing as the vaccines have not been approved and are being administered via an exemption. That being said, I am holding out as long as possible I hope to be pulled off as many trips as possible and be pay protected to do nothing.

Pfizer is on the verge of a full approval, which is probably what prompted this


Once there is a vaccine that has full approval I will consider getting it. Until then I absolutely refuse to do so. I have reservations regarding the vaccines that use fetal cell lines due to how those lines were created, but that's for the non-av forum.


If HEK293 wasn’t in existence, we wouldn’t have the majority of the medical innovations that we’ve had since the 70s. The fetal cell lines were created utilizing two embryo’s from the 70’s/80’s.
 
nwadeicer
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 2:30 am

Pi7472000 wrote:
That is good! They should require all current employees to be vaccinated as well!


LOL, no chance in hell of that happening
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jfklganyc
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 2:34 am

Flflyer83 wrote:
airtran737 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Pfizer is on the verge of a full approval, which is probably what prompted this


Once there is a vaccine that has full approval I will consider getting it. Until then I absolutely refuse to do so. I have reservations regarding the vaccines that use fetal cell lines due to how those lines were created, but that's for the non-av forum.


If HEK293 wasn’t in existence, we wouldn’t have the majority of the medical innovations that we’ve had since the 70s. The fetal cell lines were created utilizing two embryo’s from the 70’s/80’s.



Everyone has a lot to say in America. Til they experience something bad that opens their eyes...then they dont pontificate as much. It is the American way.

Good for Delta! I hope they require all employees to get it shortly. Those that chose not to get it...can stay home...without pay or get a medical exemption.
 
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stl07
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 2:45 am

airtran737 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
airtran737 wrote:
It's a bold strategy seeing as the vaccines have not been approved and are being administered via an exemption. That being said, I am holding out as long as possible I hope to be pulled off as many trips as possible and be pay protected to do nothing.

Pfizer is on the verge of a full approval, which is probably what prompted this


Once there is a vaccine that has full approval I will consider getting it. Until then I absolutely refuse to do so. I have reservations regarding the vaccines that use fetal cell lines due to how those lines were created, but that's for the non-av forum.

I think that's only the J and J vaccine, which I would recommend against anyways, plus they are nowhere near full approval
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
jmc1975
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 3:12 am

Pi7472000 wrote:
That is good! They should require all current employees to be vaccinated as well!

Or what?
.......
 
nwadeicer
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:17 am

Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 3:12 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
airtran737 wrote:

Once there is a vaccine that has full approval I will consider getting it. Until then I absolutely refuse to do so. I have reservations regarding the vaccines that use fetal cell lines due to how those lines were created, but that's for the non-av forum.


If HEK293 wasn’t in existence, we wouldn’t have the majority of the medical innovations that we’ve had since the 70s. The fetal cell lines were created utilizing two embryo’s from the 70’s/80’s.



Everyone has a lot to say in America. Til they experience something bad that opens their eyes...then they dont pontificate as much. It is the American way.

Good for Delta! I hope they require all employees to get it shortly. Those that chose not to get it...can stay home...without pay or get a medical exemption.


Again, N-e-v-e-r going to happen. Yeah, we want you to have something, that's only been developed in the past 6ish months, to be injected into your body. This whole new, employee vaccinated push, is strictly theater to appease the flying public, much like their middle seat open schtick. It's almost like Delta lately is pushing to have their employees sign up to qualify for a union vote?
I miss the Red Tail
 
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BA744PHX
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 3:15 am

jmc1975 wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
That is good! They should require all current employees to be vaccinated as well!

Or what?

Get another job! This is not a personal benefit, for any customer facing employee this should be mandatory!
 
nwadeicer
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 3:22 am

BA744PHX wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
That is good! They should require all current employees to be vaccinated as well!

Or what?

Get another job! This is not a personal benefit, for any customer facing employee this should be mandatory!


Yeah jmc1975, get another job! :rotfl: Man, this place is a hotbed of comical goodness!
I miss the Red Tail
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 3:24 am

BA744PHX wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
That is good! They should require all current employees to be vaccinated as well!

Or what?

Get another job! This is not a personal benefit, for any customer facing employee this should be mandatory!

All those customers they face who want to be protected against covid can get their own vaccine and wear a mask or two if they want additional protection. Medical/health decisions made by others is none of their business. Their body, their choice, their business.
 
airzona11
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 3:24 am

This is going to be interesting how this all plays out and with the unions moving forward.

BA744PHX wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
That is good! They should require all current employees to be vaccinated as well!

Or what?

Get another job! This is not a personal benefit, for any customer facing employee this should be mandatory!


What?
 
filipinoavgeek
Posts: 662
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 3:51 am

It seems anytime we get a vaccination thread that involves the US, fireworks start to happen and the thread goes off-topic very quickly. Perhaps it would be for the best if the thread gets locked lest this devolves into yet another pro-vax vs. vaccine hesitant posters fight.
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Spacepope
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 4:14 am

filipinoavgeek wrote:
It seems anytime we get a vaccination thread that involves the US, fireworks start to happen and the thread goes off-topic very quickly. Perhaps it would be for the best if the thread gets locked lest this devolves into yet another pro-vax vs. vaccine hesitant posters fight.


Vaccine hesitant? You misspelled plague rat.
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B777LRF
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 4:28 am

I think it's only fair that anti-vaxers should have the final say in whether they wish to get the jab or not. Just as I think it's fair for a company to decide whether to keep such people on the payroll or not.

I do wonder what the correlation is between people saying "my body, my choice, my business" and their stance on abortion ...
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seat1a
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 4:30 am

airtran737 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
airtran737 wrote:
It's a bold strategy seeing as the vaccines have not been approved and are being administered via an exemption. That being said, I am holding out as long as possible I hope to be pulled off as many trips as possible and be pay protected to do nothing.

Pfizer is on the verge of a full approval, which is probably what prompted this


Once there is a vaccine that has full approval I will consider getting it. Until then I absolutely refuse to do so. I have reservations regarding the vaccines that use fetal cell lines due to how those lines were created, but that's for the non-av forum.


This doesn't make sense. Once there is full approval (soon) you will consider it. Yet, you have reservations about fetal cell lines (and mRNA technology that's been around a decade), and the ethics behind medical technology. You've prejudged but leaving the door open? That's good, but you're one of those folks that's not prepared to be convinced.

Stem cell and fetal tissue research saves lives.
 
SESGDL
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 4:38 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
jmc1975 wrote:
Or what?

Get another job! This is not a personal benefit, for any customer facing employee this should be mandatory!

All those customers they face who want to be protected against covid can get their own vaccine and wear a mask or two if they want additional protection. Medical/health decisions made by others is none of their business. Their body, their choice, their business.


Tell that to someone who shows up high or drunk at work. Does your employer allow you to do that? Your body, your choice, right?

Jeremy
 
NYCDM
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 4:39 am

jfklganyc wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:
airtran737 wrote:

Once there is a vaccine that has full approval I will consider getting it. Until then I absolutely refuse to do so. I have reservations regarding the vaccines that use fetal cell lines due to how those lines were created, but that's for the non-av forum.


If HEK293 wasn’t in existence, we wouldn’t have the majority of the medical innovations that we’ve had since the 70s. The fetal cell lines were created utilizing two embryo’s from the 70’s/80’s.



Everyone has a lot to say in America. Til they experience something bad that opens their eyes...then they dont pontificate as much. It is the American way.

Good for Delta! I hope they require all employees to get it shortly. Those that chose not to get it...can stay home...without pay or get a medical exemption.


Exactly #2. Nobody gets to willingly choose to harm others when working in a role like this. Don’t want the vaccine? Fine, decline your trip.
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 4:51 am

B777LRF wrote:
I think it's only fair that anti-vaxers should have the final say in whether they wish to get the jab or not. Just as I think it's fair for a company to decide whether to keep such people on the payroll or not.

I do wonder what the correlation is between people saying "my body, my choice, my business" and their stance on abortion ...

Wait, so everyone who doesn’t want to get a vaccine for a virus that has a 99.98 survivability rate (depending on age/health/etc), and that doesn’t have much long term efficacy data (ie when does the covid protection wear off), and many of whom already have immunity from said virus from prior exposure, are anti-vaxxers? No. Everyone I know who doesn’t want to get this vaccine has all their other normal vaccines. I’d hardly call people who don’t want one particular vaccine anti-vaxxers. Do you see what the media and politicians are doing here, dividing and shaming people? Here you are advocating for people to lose their job because they don’t want to get a shot? If people are concerned about getting covid, those people should get the vaccine. But whether or not someone else gets the vaccine is none of anyone’s business, as is the case for all other medical data. Call me old school, but I value privacy.
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 4:55 am

SESGDL wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
BA744PHX wrote:
Get another job! This is not a personal benefit, for any customer facing employee this should be mandatory!

All those customers they face who want to be protected against covid can get their own vaccine and wear a mask or two if they want additional protection. Medical/health decisions made by others is none of their business. Their body, their choice, their business.


Tell that to someone who shows up high or drunk at work. Does your employer allow you to do that? Your body, your choice, right?

Jeremy


Lol you are comparing a required level of sobriety at work to a medical choice? My work also doesn’t allow me to work sick, but I’m not required to give a doctor’s diagnosis of what I have…because…privacy. They also require me to have a medical examination. But they don’t get to know anything about my health, only that I am deemed fit by a medical doctor.
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 4:58 am

NYCDM wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Flflyer83 wrote:

If HEK293 wasn’t in existence, we wouldn’t have the majority of the medical innovations that we’ve had since the 70s. The fetal cell lines were created utilizing two embryo’s from the 70’s/80’s.



Everyone has a lot to say in America. Til they experience something bad that opens their eyes...then they dont pontificate as much. It is the American way.

Good for Delta! I hope they require all employees to get it shortly. Those that chose not to get it...can stay home...without pay or get a medical exemption.


Exactly #2. Nobody gets to willingly choose to harm others when working in a role like this. Don’t want the vaccine? Fine, decline your trip.


Wait, not getting a vaccine is willingly choosing to harm others? Really? So if I’m not sick, I am still “choosing to harm others” simply by virtue of not having the vaccine? Even if those “others” can choose to get the vaccine themselves (or not)? Riiight.
 
flyinghippo
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 5:08 am

@Airtrain737 - mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) do not use stem cells or fetal tissues. They're synthetically produced. Also, mRNA has been studied for over a decade.

Respect your opinion on waiting to see more data. However, once it's approved, Delta does have the right to mandate all their employees be vaccinated against COVID or they will be limited on the routes they fly.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 5:28 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
All those customers they face who want to be protected against covid can get their own vaccine and wear a mask or two if they want additional protection. Medical/health decisions made by others is none of their business. Their body, their choice, their business.


Tell that to someone who shows up high or drunk at work. Does your employer allow you to do that? Your body, your choice, right?

Jeremy


Lol you are comparing a required level of sobriety at work to a medical choice? My work also doesn’t allow me to work sick, but I’m not required to give a doctor’s diagnosis of what I have…because…privacy. They also require me to have a medical examination. But they don’t get to know anything about my health, only that I am deemed fit by a medical doctor.


Except that this is a public health, not private health matter. And companies are given a wide latitude by US law to make and enforce health-centered policies. Don't like it? Become self employed.
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Aaron747
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 5:33 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
NYCDM wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


Everyone has a lot to say in America. Til they experience something bad that opens their eyes...then they dont pontificate as much. It is the American way.

Good for Delta! I hope they require all employees to get it shortly. Those that chose not to get it...can stay home...without pay or get a medical exemption.


Exactly #2. Nobody gets to willingly choose to harm others when working in a role like this. Don’t want the vaccine? Fine, decline your trip.


Wait, not getting a vaccine is willingly choosing to harm others? Really? So if I’m not sick, I am still “choosing to harm others” simply by virtue of not having the vaccine? Even if those “others” can choose to get the vaccine themselves (or not)? Riiight.


Technically, yes. You can still pass the disease to others who are unvaccinated, even if you're not sick. This is, like, 6th grade knowledge.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 5:44 am

Aaron747 wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
NYCDM wrote:

Exactly #2. Nobody gets to willingly choose to harm others when working in a role like this. Don’t want the vaccine? Fine, decline your trip.


Wait, not getting a vaccine is willingly choosing to harm others? Really? So if I’m not sick, I am still “choosing to harm others” simply by virtue of not having the vaccine? Even if those “others” can choose to get the vaccine themselves (or not)? Riiight.


Technically, yes. You can still pass the disease to others who are unvaccinated, even if you're not sick. This is, like, 6th grade knowledge.

If I test negative for covid and am not sick, I am not passing covid to anyone lol. But, back to the point, those who want to can get vaccinated.
And poof, now they are protected and safe. That is their choice. If they are vaccinated, it doesn’t matter what my or anybody else’s choice is. See how that works? You don’t want covid? Get a vaccine. Then let other people figure out what they want to do. If you’re vaccinated, their choices don’t affect you. It is quite simple.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 5:51 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:

Wait, not getting a vaccine is willingly choosing to harm others? Really? So if I’m not sick, I am still “choosing to harm others” simply by virtue of not having the vaccine? Even if those “others” can choose to get the vaccine themselves (or not)? Riiight.


Technically, yes. You can still pass the disease to others who are unvaccinated, even if you're not sick. This is, like, 6th grade knowledge.

If I test negative for covid and am not sick, I am not passing covid to anyone lol. But, back to the point, those who want to can get vaccinated.
And poof, now they are protected and safe. That is their choice. If they are vaccinated, it doesn’t matter what my or anybody else’s choice is. See how that works? You don’t want covid? Get a vaccine. Then let other people figure out what they want to do. If you’re vaccinated, their choices don’t affect you. It is quite simple.


That works fine for individuals, but companies have customers, employees, and liability to think about. As I said, don't like corporate health policies? The solution is to become self-employed.

As for the first sentence, technically that's only correct to a point. If you aren't being tested every few days, and are conversing with folks indoors, then you most certainly could be passing it to someone unknowingly.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 5:59 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
NYCDM wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


Everyone has a lot to say in America. Til they experience something bad that opens their eyes...then they dont pontificate as much. It is the American way.

Good for Delta! I hope they require all employees to get it shortly. Those that chose not to get it...can stay home...without pay or get a medical exemption.


Exactly #2. Nobody gets to willingly choose to harm others when working in a role like this. Don’t want the vaccine? Fine, decline your trip.


Wait, not getting a vaccine is willingly choosing to harm others? Really? So if I’m not sick, I am still “choosing to harm others” simply by virtue of not having the vaccine? Even if those “others” can choose to get the vaccine themselves (or not)? Riiight.


How do you guarantee that you will remain 'not sick', especially in the midst of a very contagious and globally prevalent pandemic, and especially since you could be asymptomatic?
By not getting vaccinated, you are still a threat to everyone as first of all, some people cannot get vaccinated and even those who are vaccinated can get infected and sick from it, even if the probability is much lower.
The more people refuse to get vaccinated, the more the virus will circulate and be able to mutate around the current vaccines, eventually putting even vaccinated people at risk.

You can choose to ignore the real World figures on your health risk when getting infected vs your health risk when getting vaccinated but no matter how you try to spin it, not getting vaccinated increases the risk not just for yourself, but for everyone else as well, and that's just that.
It may not be 'choosing to harm others', but it certainly is 'choosing to be an increased risk to others (and oneself)'. Either way, this is not a behavior that is deserving of much sympathy.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
airtechy
Topic Author
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 6:27 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
NYCDM wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


Everyone has a lot to say in America. Til they experience something bad that opens their eyes...then they dont pontificate as much. It is the American way.

Good for Delta! I hope they require all employees to get it shortly. Those that chose not to get it...can stay home...without pay or get a medical exemption.


Exactly #2. Nobody gets to willingly choose to harm others when working in a role like this. Don’t want the vaccine? Fine, decline your trip.


Wait, not getting a vaccine is willingly choosing to harm others? Really? So if I’m not sick, I am still “choosing to harm others” simply by virtue of not having the vaccine? Even if those “others” can choose to get the vaccine themselves (or not)? Riiight.


I would just say that covid is rather a unique disease in that you can be sick and not know it but be shedding virus like a mangy dog sheds fleas. I guess the expression "ignorance is bless" applies especially if you don't care about the ones you come in contact with. So yes, I would say that not getting a vaccine .. and possibly harming others .. is either (1) not haven't thought about the transmission aspect or (2) not caring. Whether others have been vaccinated or not shouldn't enter into the equation.

I'll admit that the main reason I got the vaccine was first to protect myself, but along with that benefit came protection for others that I come in contact with .. some that I know and some that I don't. I consider covid to be a communicable disease. Unfortunately, it can sometimes show no symptoms in the one that transmits the disease to others and therefore gives the "transmitter" a degree of "deny ability".

I think Delta made the right decision here. If they do reach 80 percent vaccinated, I would not like to be in the 20 percent because despite the "privacy laws" everyone will know who they are especially if they get covid. Not a good place to be in with your co-workers as to them it will show poor judgement despite the "excuses".
 
B777LRF
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 7:14 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
I think it's only fair that anti-vaxers should have the final say in whether they wish to get the jab or not. Just as I think it's fair for a company to decide whether to keep such people on the payroll or not.

I do wonder what the correlation is between people saying "my body, my choice, my business" and their stance on abortion ...

Wait, so everyone who doesn’t want to get a vaccine for a virus that has a 99.98 survivability rate (depending on age/health/etc), and that doesn’t have much long term efficacy data (ie when does the covid protection wear off), and many of whom already have immunity from said virus from prior exposure, are anti-vaxxers? No. Everyone I know who doesn’t want to get this vaccine has all their other normal vaccines. I’d hardly call people who don’t want one particular vaccine anti-vaxxers. Do you see what the media and politicians are doing here, dividing and shaming people? Here you are advocating for people to lose their job because they don’t want to get a shot? If people are concerned about getting covid, those people should get the vaccine. But whether or not someone else gets the vaccine is none of anyone’s business, as is the case for all other medical data. Call me old school, but I value privacy.


No reason for waiting, get the jab as soon as you can. It's certainly your choice not to, but with every choice comes consequences. And the consequence in this instance should be that the company you're working for is free to terminate your employment.

And, yes, if you chose not to get vaccinated for Covid-19 then you're an anti-vaxxer. Just as you would be if you refused any other vaccination. The choice is yours, just as the consequences are yours to live with as well.
Signature. You just read one.
 
chimborazo
Posts: 406
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 7:32 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
NYCDM wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


Everyone has a lot to say in America. Til they experience something bad that opens their eyes...then they dont pontificate as much. It is the American way.

Good for Delta! I hope they require all employees to get it shortly. Those that chose not to get it...can stay home...without pay or get a medical exemption.


Exactly #2. Nobody gets to willingly choose to harm others when working in a role like this. Don’t want the vaccine? Fine, decline your trip.


Wait, not getting a vaccine is willingly choosing to harm others? Really? So if I’m not sick, I am still “choosing to harm others” simply by virtue of not having the vaccine? Even if those “others” can choose to get the vaccine themselves (or not)? Riiight.


Yes it is. Because what you and a lot of other folk cannot seem to understand is that unless this virus is reduced to a tiny amount of carriers in the population (it will never ever be gone completely now it’s here) it has more and more avenues to mutate. The mutations may then render the vaccines less effective. So you choosing not to be vaccinated is precisely the point about causing harm to others. You are a vector for transmission and mutation.

That’s what is happening in the UK hotspots. Certain sections of the population are not taking up the vaccine and the India variant is exploding in these areas.

Note the world variant... there’s a variant spreading because the vaccine rollout worldwide is in its infancy....
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14414
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 7:41 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
I think it's only fair that anti-vaxers should have the final say in whether they wish to get the jab or not. Just as I think it's fair for a company to decide whether to keep such people on the payroll or not.

I do wonder what the correlation is between people saying "my body, my choice, my business" and their stance on abortion ...

Wait, so everyone who doesn’t want to get a vaccine for a virus that has a 99.98 survivability rate (depending on age/health/etc), and that doesn’t have much long term efficacy data (ie when does the covid protection wear off), and many of whom already have immunity from said virus from prior exposure, are anti-vaxxers? No. Everyone I know who doesn’t want to get this vaccine has all their other normal vaccines. I’d hardly call people who don’t want one particular vaccine anti-vaxxers. Do you see what the media and politicians are doing here, dividing and shaming people? Here you are advocating for people to lose their job because they don’t want to get a shot? If people are concerned about getting covid, those people should get the vaccine. But whether or not someone else gets the vaccine is none of anyone’s business, as is the case for all other medical data. Call me old school, but I value privacy.


These people have their "normal vaccines". Yet these "normal vaccines" are for illnesses that have never affected the world like COVID has. COVID stopped the world. Doesn't that seem like a good candidate for getting vaccinated ?

The absolute first industry that has been affected by COVID, and will continue to be for years, is aviation, let's not forget.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Virtual737
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 8:06 am

jmc1975 wrote:
Pi7472000 wrote:
That is good! They should require all current employees to be vaccinated as well!

Or what?


It's America, so guns are always an option surely?

My personal choice would be to remove health benefits and at the first sign of any COVID type symptoms to be put on leave without pay. The US is always shouting about the rights of the individual, but not so much about that individual owning the overall impact of exercising their rights.
 
2eng2efficient
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:30 pm

Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 9:46 am

This matter will ultimately need to be litigated, and will probably reach the Supreme Court eventually.
 
M564038
Posts: 626
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 10:00 am

This is about herd immunity. That is the only way out of the pandemic cripling the world economy and killing millions.

If you do not get vaccinated, you stand in the way of herd immunity.

It is not about your rights, it is about the herd.

Those who do not understand something so simple is not fit to fly or operate any other machinery more complicated than a toaster anyway, so yes, fire them!
 
luckyone
Posts: 3971
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 10:15 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
I think it's only fair that anti-vaxers should have the final say in whether they wish to get the jab or not. Just as I think it's fair for a company to decide whether to keep such people on the payroll or not.

I do wonder what the correlation is between people saying "my body, my choice, my business" and their stance on abortion ...

Wait, so everyone who doesn’t want to get a vaccine for a virus that has a 99.98 survivability rate (depending on age/health/etc).

Everyone I know who doesn’t want to get this vaccine has all their other normal vaccines.


To the best of your knowledge, how does that COVID-19 mortality/survival percentage compare to illness like the measles? Those with “normal” vaccines? Hint, I’m baiting you.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 11:19 am

2eng2efficient wrote:
This matter will ultimately need to be litigated, and will probably reach the Supreme Court eventually.


Mmmmm nah, the law is pretty clear. Under ADA stipulations, employers can set policies for workplace health and/or define conditions by which employees cannot put others at risk. Religious and other accommodations would have to be dealt with 1-on-1. As long as the policy is written, it would generally be valid. Of course unions need to be informed of any policy changes and such changes need to be agreed upon if they affect employment status, but other than that, lots of latitude for employers here.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
luckyone
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 11:20 am

Aaron747 wrote:
2eng2efficient wrote:
This matter will ultimately need to be litigated, and will probably reach the Supreme Court eventually.


Mmmmm nah, the law is pretty clear. Under ADA stipulations, employers can set policies for workplace health and/or define conditions by which employees cannot put others at risk. Religious and other accommodations would have to be dealt with 1-on-1. As long as the policy is written, it would generally be valid. Of course unions need to be informed of any policy changes and such changes need to be agreed upon if they affect employment status, but other than that, lots of latitude for employers here.

Ahh but only Delta pilots and dispatchers are unionized....
 
airtechy
Topic Author
Posts: 820
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 11:37 am

2eng2efficient wrote:
This matter will ultimately need to be litigated, and will probably reach the Supreme Court eventually.


That's an interesting point. Maybe virus spreading to the public .. while easily preventable by a vaccine .. can be compared to smoking .. easily preventable by not smoking in public. Smoking used to be widespread .. most annoyingly on airplanes. The public finally got tired of it and businesses realized that it was bad for business. Now, it is hard to find a viable business that allows smoking. The government also finally realized smoking was a severe health risk and started to pass laws to curtail it. Businesses like Delta may just be starting down that path.

I doubt if the Supreme Court would rule against a private business deciding how they handle the vaccine issue. Deciding whether or not to get the vaccine is a personal choice that you have control over not like the color of your skin or where you were born which you have no control over and would be discriminatory and not allowed.
 
2eng2efficient
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:30 pm

Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 11:41 am

Aaron747 wrote:
2eng2efficient wrote:
This matter will ultimately need to be litigated, and will probably reach the Supreme Court eventually.


Mmmmm nah, the law is pretty clear. Under ADA stipulations, employers can set policies for workplace health and/or define conditions by which employees cannot put others at risk. Religious and other accommodations would have to be dealt with 1-on-1. As long as the policy is written, it would generally be valid. Of course unions need to be informed of any policy changes and such changes need to be agreed upon if they affect employment status, but other than that, lots of latitude for employers here.


Don’t get me wrong, I personally am supportive of this move and believe DL should extend the policy to current employees under threat of termination.

But I don’t believe this is as clear cut as you think. Notwithstanding the obvious ADA and religious accommodations, the EEOC’s present position that proof of vaccination doesn’t constitute a medical examination, as well as the scope and rigor of “direct threat” assessment, are both going to be challenged in court. I personal believe the federal judiciary will find in favor of employers, but I have been wrong before.
 
airtechy
Topic Author
Posts: 820
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 11:51 am

Is there any history at Delta, or any other airline for that matter, that says an individual crewmember cannot fly to a certain country because of a situation unique to that individual? I'm thinking of not having taken the covid vaccine obviously. They would require an interesting crew travel management setup.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 11:59 am

M564038 wrote:
This is about herd immunity. That is the only way out of the pandemic cripling the world economy and killing millions.

If you do not get vaccinated, you stand in the way of herd immunity.

It is not about your rights, it is about the herd.

Those who do not understand something so simple is not fit to fly or operate any other machinery more complicated than a toaster anyway, so yes, fire them!



Amen!

This isnt about you as an individual. This is beyond you as an individual.

I went out and got my vaccine as soon as I could, and I don’t want to sit next to you in the cockpit choosing not to get vaccinated. You are unnecessarily putting me at risk in the workplace environment...And I am a dues paying union member just like you.

You can choose not to get vaccinated, The company can choose not to have you as an employee.
 
CaptHadley
Posts: 159
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 12:56 pm

Just out of curiosity, does Delta Air Lines require new hires to receive the flu shot?
 
CaptHadley
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:36 pm

Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 1:16 pm

Now just wait a minute here. So you get the vaccine yet you can still possibly catch "The Vid"? So you want all new hires, as well as all employees, to get a vaccine that is not 100% effective?
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/h ... cases.html
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 1:17 pm

I personally would skew my business to a known vaccinated company. Pfizer has been shown to be effective to refuce asymptomatic transmission 94%.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-n ... y-n1260542

Everything I've read is that the mRNA and adrenovirus (J&J, AstraZenica) remarkably reduce transmission.

The inactivated virus vaccines (SinoVac, Sinopharm, Bharat Biotech) do not seem to provide significant benefit there.

Until vaccines have full FDA approval, I do not believe in mandates. Once fully approved, it is a public health matter and, in my opinion, they could and should be mandated as the FDA approved vaccines (yes, currently emergency) refuce transmission.

I'm considering *not* flying this summer as my youngest child cannot get vaccinated (too young) and has been hospitalized for pneumonia. I don't know how much that increases her risk, but it is more than I want in a world of UnVacs. My eldest has 1st jab.

2eng2efficient wrote:
This matter will ultimately need to be litigated, and will probably reach the Supreme Court eventually.

Mandatory vaccinations have been ruled on multiple times by the Supreme court.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... pox-covid/

Late edit:
As lack of vaccination will impact demand, this is a business decision. However, I agree DL cannot force this due to pushback. I do believe the USA will require all entering the USA to be vaccinated soon; this the only crew that could work those flights must be vaccinated.

Lightsaber

ps later edit:
CaptHadley wrote:
Now just wait a minute here. So you get the vaccine yet you can still possibly catch "The Vid"? So you want all new hires, as well as all employees, to get a vaccine that is not 100% effective?
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/h ... cases.html

No Vaccine is 100% effective.

Ro=R_wild*(1-refuction transmission)*(1-chance_infected) or
if we assume Ro=4
Ro=4*(1-.94*%vaccinated)*(1-.95*% vaccinated).

There is little risk in vaccinated associating with vaccinated. Unvacvinated are a very elevated risk.

There will be boosters to increase immunity.

I have long haul symptoms. Supposedly a majority of people who get Covid19 get them. I cannot taste fat. e.g., at work today there are donuts. Why bother. When you cannot taste fat they are disgusting. Same with french fries, most deserts, and bacon. I also acquired from Covid19 mild tinnitus. Thankfully vaccines help some fraction heal by helping reset the immune system.

At this point, anyone refusing to get vaccinated is agreeing to all the consequences. Plus they risk others. As a parent if a child too young to be vaccinated, can you understand the frustration people feel that the willingly unvaccinated are adding risk to their family?

You also realize that immnio compromised rely on herd immunity. e.g., one of my friends is very angry that unvaccinated adults are putting his child with cancer at far greater risk. At this point the unvaccinated adults are willingly unvaccinated and have chosen to be a greater risk.

I would hope more DL employees are vaccinated.

Lightsaber
8 months without TV. The best decision of my life.
 
luckyone
Posts: 3971
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 1:34 pm

CaptHadley wrote:
Now just wait a minute here. So you get the vaccine yet you can still possibly catch "The Vid"? So you want all new hires, as well as all employees, to get a vaccine that is not 100% effective?
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/h ... cases.html

There is no such thing as a 100% effective vaccine. ie. the MMR that you got at age 6 and then again at 12 is 93% effective with the first dose, and 97% effective with the second. 3% risk spread over a population... you do the math cap'n.
All 50 states require vaccinations for public schools, and there can still be a few breakthrough cases in spite of near universal vaccinations.

Same with the flu shot. My employer requires me to get the flu shot. My last four or five jobs I've had to demonstrate immunity to measles, mumps, rubella, hepatitis, and not have TB before they'll let me in the door.
Last edited by luckyone on Sat May 15, 2021 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 19949
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 1:42 pm

CaptHadley wrote:
Now just wait a minute here. So you get the vaccine yet you can still possibly catch "The Vid"? So you want all new hires, as well as all employees, to get a vaccine that is not 100% effective?
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/h ... cases.html


No vaccine is 100% effective.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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BA744PHX
Posts: 546
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Re: Delta to require new employees be vaccinated..

Sat May 15, 2021 2:00 pm

JoseSalazar wrote:
SESGDL wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
All those customers they face who want to be protected against covid can get their own vaccine and wear a mask or two if they want additional protection. Medical/health decisions made by others is none of their business. Their body, their choice, their business.


Tell that to someone who shows up high or drunk at work. Does your employer allow you to do that? Your body, your choice, right?

Jeremy


Lol you are comparing a required level of sobriety at work to a medical choice? My work also doesn’t allow me to work sick, but I’m not required to give a doctor’s diagnosis of what I have…because…privacy. They also require me to have a medical examination. But they don’t get to know anything about my health, only that I am deemed fit by a medical doctor.

One can argue if not vaccinated you are not fit work, you become too high risk for yourself getting sick or infecting customers/flyers you come in contact with.

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