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aerolimani
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Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 15, 2021 1:15 am

Developer Of Aluminum-Ion Battery Claims It Charges 60 Times Faster Than Lithium-Ion, Offering EV Range Breakthrough

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltay ... ithium-ion

That's the headline, but the first thing my brain went to was aviation. This tech has the potential to revolutionize the aviation industry. I think the potential is so great, I considered posting this in the CivAv forum.

Highlights:
- super fast charging (60x faster than li-ion)
- no overheating issues
- appears to work equally well in cold and hot environments
- has an energy density much higher than li-ion batteries

Some quick googling/calculating indicates that the energy density could be up to 26 times that of current li-ion batteries. Wow!!!
 
YokoTsuno
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 15, 2021 1:37 am

aerolimani wrote:
Developer Of Aluminum-Ion Battery Claims It Charges 60 Times Faster Than Lithium-Ion, Offering EV Range Breakthrough
- super fast charging (60x faster)
Even if this would be possible, how are you going to charge the battery in such a short time? Depending on the country, a typical domestic electrical system has rating of 20-80 amps, single, split or three phase. Try installing a 1000 amps power supply in every home, let alone build the infrastructure to supply enough energy for all cars to be charged at that rate at the same time. Simply science fiction.
 
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 15, 2021 2:53 am

YokoTsuno wrote:
aerolimani wrote:
Developer Of Aluminum-Ion Battery Claims It Charges 60 Times Faster Than Lithium-Ion, Offering EV Range Breakthrough
- super fast charging (60x faster)
Even if this would be possible, how are you going to charge the battery in such a short time? Depending on the country, a typical domestic electrical system has rating of 20-80 amps, single, split or three phase. Try installing a 1000 amps power supply in every home, let alone build the infrastructure to supply enough energy for all cars to be charged at that rate at the same time. Simply science fiction.

Thanks for that wet blanket.

I understand there's a difference between theoretical speeds and practical speeds. It's pretty easy to make a charging system that adjusts itself relative to the available power. Who says it needs to be used at its maximum charging speed 100% of the time?

I still am intrigued by the possibilities for aviation. Yes, it would require a lot of new infrastructure, but as with all things, it can start small, and slowly build up. Power generation technology is also evolving at a rapid pace. Power storage system are also evolving, making wind and solar systems much more practical. This new battery development is potentially a VERY significant step.
 
YokoTsuno
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 15, 2021 4:09 am

aerolimani wrote:
Developer Of Aluminum-Ion Battery Claims It Charges 60 Times Faster Than Lithium-Ion, Offering EV Range Breakthrough
I understand there's a difference between theoretical speeds and practical speeds. It's pretty easy to make a charging system that adjusts itself relative to the available power. Who says it needs to be used at its maximum charging speed 100% of the time?
Pretty easy?

To allow long distance travel you would at least need charging capacity comparable to volumes of cars handled by current petrol stations.

1) To convert current petrol stations to high speed EV charging stations, these need to be connected to high voltage power lines, difficult and very costly in urban environments, but still doable.

2) How are you going to connect your car? Low voltages (100 - 1000V) require wiring gauges which can no longer be handled in any reasonable way by human beings Using high voltages is way too dangerous, requires specialised connectors and training.

3) The equivalent amount of energy currently distributed as fossil fuels has to be generated by power plants. How? With fossil fuels? That is obviously ridiculous. Renewable energy? Is this even possible? Nuclear power plants? Do we still want that after Fukushima and Chernobyl.
 
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aerolimani
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 15, 2021 4:34 am

YokoTsuno wrote:
aerolimani wrote:
Developer Of Aluminum-Ion Battery Claims It Charges 60 Times Faster Than Lithium-Ion, Offering EV Range Breakthrough
I understand there's a difference between theoretical speeds and practical speeds. It's pretty easy to make a charging system that adjusts itself relative to the available power. Who says it needs to be used at its maximum charging speed 100% of the time?
Pretty easy?

To allow long distance travel you would at least need charging capacity comparable to volumes of cars handled by current petrol stations.

1) To convert current petrol stations to high speed EV charging stations, these need to be connected to high voltage power lines, difficult and very costly in urban environments, but still doable.

2) How are you going to connect your car? Low voltages (100 - 1000V) require wiring gauges which can no longer be handled in any reasonable way by human beings Using high voltages is way too dangerous, requires specialised connectors and training.

3) The equivalent amount of energy currently distributed as fossil fuels has to be generated by power plants. How? With fossil fuels? That is obviously ridiculous. Renewable energy? Is this even possible? Nuclear power plants? Do we still want that after Fukushima and Chernobyl.

You missed the part where I said I was talking about aviation. :roll:

aerolimani wrote:
I still am intrigued by the possibilities for aviation. Yes, it would require a lot of new infrastructure, but as with all things, it can start small, and slowly build up. Power generation technology is also evolving at a rapid pace. Power storage system are also evolving, making wind and solar systems much more practical. This new battery development is potentially a VERY significant step.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 15, 2021 4:50 am

YokoTsuno wrote:
aerolimani wrote:
Developer Of Aluminum-Ion Battery Claims It Charges 60 Times Faster Than Lithium-Ion, Offering EV Range Breakthrough
- super fast charging (60x faster)
Even if this would be possible, how are you going to charge the battery in such a short time? Depending on the country, a typical domestic electrical system has rating of 20-80 amps, single, split or three phase. Try installing a 1000 amps power supply in every home, let alone build the infrastructure to supply enough energy for all cars to be charged at that rate at the same time. Simply science fiction.


Trickle charging of EVs at home is fine for current battery capacities and relatively short commutes, but first of all it's not necessarily great for the batteries, it only allows a limited amount of charging unless you spend on an upgraded electrical installation but mostly, as EVs become more popular, the share of EV owners who do have access to a charger at night will decrease.
In most Asian nations for instance, where city densities mean that most people don't have a garage, that's simply not practical.

With a battery that charges as fast as this technology promises, you can easily revert to the current 'gas station' model, where you just stop by a suitably equipped station that can pump enough kW into your battery to charge it in a matter of minutes.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 15, 2021 5:37 am

YokoTsuno wrote:
Do we still want that after Fukushima and Chernobyl.


Hell yes we do. Chernobyl was caused by a flawed design, and Fukushima was a man-made accident, triggered by natural hazards, that could and should have been avoided.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 15, 2021 5:44 am

YokoTsuno wrote:
aerolimani wrote:
Developer Of Aluminum-Ion Battery Claims It Charges 60 Times Faster Than Lithium-Ion, Offering EV Range Breakthrough
I understand there's a difference between theoretical speeds and practical speeds. It's pretty easy to make a charging system that adjusts itself relative to the available power. Who says it needs to be used at its maximum charging speed 100% of the time?
Pretty easy?

To allow long distance travel you would at least need charging capacity comparable to volumes of cars handled by current petrol stations.

1) To convert current petrol stations to high speed EV charging stations, these need to be connected to high voltage power lines, difficult and very costly in urban environments, but still doable.

2) How are you going to connect your car? Low voltages (100 - 1000V) require wiring gauges which can no longer be handled in any reasonable way by human beings Using high voltages is way too dangerous, requires specialised connectors and training.

3) The equivalent amount of energy currently distributed as fossil fuels has to be generated by power plants. How? With fossil fuels? That is obviously ridiculous. Renewable energy? Is this even possible? Nuclear power plants? Do we still want that after Fukushima and Chernobyl.


Echoing EA CO AS here. Practical minds and governments absolutely still want nuclear power. The key is to have it run by people who give a damn - then it works fine.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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aerolimani
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 15, 2021 5:51 am

Aaron747 wrote:
YokoTsuno wrote:
aerolimani wrote:
Developer Of Aluminum-Ion Battery Claims It Charges 60 Times Faster Than Lithium-Ion, Offering EV Range Breakthrough
I understand there's a difference between theoretical speeds and practical speeds. It's pretty easy to make a charging system that adjusts itself relative to the available power. Who says it needs to be used at its maximum charging speed 100% of the time?
Pretty easy?

To allow long distance travel you would at least need charging capacity comparable to volumes of cars handled by current petrol stations.

1) To convert current petrol stations to high speed EV charging stations, these need to be connected to high voltage power lines, difficult and very costly in urban environments, but still doable.

2) How are you going to connect your car? Low voltages (100 - 1000V) require wiring gauges which can no longer be handled in any reasonable way by human beings Using high voltages is way too dangerous, requires specialised connectors and training.

3) The equivalent amount of energy currently distributed as fossil fuels has to be generated by power plants. How? With fossil fuels? That is obviously ridiculous. Renewable energy? Is this even possible? Nuclear power plants? Do we still want that after Fukushima and Chernobyl.


Echoing EA CO AS here. Practical minds and governments absolutely still want nuclear power. The key is to have it run by people who give a damn - then it works fine.

Agreed.

For crying out loud, we have ships and submarines cruising around the world on nuclear power. It's doable, and manageable. The only question is how to keep the process clean; how to keep corrupt self-interests out of the equation. But, I believe it is more than possible.

Secretly, I hope for fusion to become a reality, but to make the same dark joke as many scientists, "nuclear fusion is only 30 years away, and next year it will still be 30 years away."
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 15, 2021 5:53 am

aerolimani wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
YokoTsuno wrote:
Pretty easy?

To allow long distance travel you would at least need charging capacity comparable to volumes of cars handled by current petrol stations.

1) To convert current petrol stations to high speed EV charging stations, these need to be connected to high voltage power lines, difficult and very costly in urban environments, but still doable.

2) How are you going to connect your car? Low voltages (100 - 1000V) require wiring gauges which can no longer be handled in any reasonable way by human beings Using high voltages is way too dangerous, requires specialised connectors and training.

3) The equivalent amount of energy currently distributed as fossil fuels has to be generated by power plants. How? With fossil fuels? That is obviously ridiculous. Renewable energy? Is this even possible? Nuclear power plants? Do we still want that after Fukushima and Chernobyl.


Echoing EA CO AS here. Practical minds and governments absolutely still want nuclear power. The key is to have it run by people who give a damn - then it works fine.

Agreed.

For crying out loud, we have ships and submarines cruising around the world on nuclear power. It's doable, and manageable. The only question is how to keep the process clean; how to keep corrupt self-interests out of the equation. But, I believe it is more than possible.

Secretly, I hope for fusion to become a reality, but to make the same dark joke as many scientists, "nuclear fusion is only 30 years away, and next year it will still be 30 years away."


Haha....we're actually closer now to successful fusion than we've ever been before. We just don't know how close *that* is. ;)
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 15, 2021 6:22 am

EA CO AS wrote:
YokoTsuno wrote:
Do we still want that after Fukushima and Chernobyl.


Hell yes we do. Chernobyl was caused by a flawed design, and Fukushima was a man-made accident, triggered by natural hazards, that could and should have been avoided.


To be honest, Fukushima was also in part the result of a flawed design.
The way the critical emergency systems were designed and placed, for a coastline plant located in an active seismic area prone to tsunamis is nothing short of criminally negligent.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 15, 2021 6:41 am

The tech is interesting and we'll see where it goes. We don't really need 60 times faster than today, 5-10 times is enough. As for charging at home, slow charging is fine, and that also means there is no need for as many charging stations as there are pumps. If you can't have a garage/dedicated parking spot in town maybe "car as a service" is better than to own a car ? When I lived in Paris I left my car at my parents' home in the suburbs, the car would get destroyed if parked in the street, and I didn't need it anyway.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 15, 2021 1:34 pm

Battery technology is leapfrogging ahead, and there are all sorts of specific technologies and materials being advanced. For the next 5(?) years it is going to be lithium (with ever decreasing amounts of cobalt) and well as some interesting uses of iron. Most people are charging at home with a level 2 charger. I lend/trade my condo parking spot to a neighbor whose nearest in unit 110 duplex is within reach of that parking spot. Condo is investigating charging stations.

Once real life use gets upwards 300 miles per charge, range anxiety begins to fade even for long road trips, but for now that is only in metro areas and major interstate freeways. The level 3 charging network is still somewhat of a dream or nightmare right now, I am thinking that another 3-5 years may fix that. WAY more important than a better car battery.
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BaconButty
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 15, 2021 6:44 pm

Is the speed of charging the issue? Many concepts I've seen have swappable battery packs. Usually sliding in from the rear (no smirking at the back) beneath the passenger deck or even beneath fairings on the fuselage. Can't find photos atm but the Airbus e-taxi has a similar concept.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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aerolimani
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 15, 2021 8:21 pm

BaconButty wrote:
Is the speed of charging the issue? Many concepts I've seen have swappable battery packs. Usually sliding in from the rear (no smirking at the back) beneath the passenger deck or even beneath fairings on the fuselage. Can't find photos atm but the Airbus e-taxi has a similar concept.

I'd have though energy density improvements are the key.

Indeed, I think the density aspect is the most exciting. People have talked about how batteries aren’t feasible for aviation because they weigh too much. Now, for the same amount of power, we’re looking at something that is potentially 4% the size of current Li-ion batteries. Or, for the same weight, 26 times the power. Not to mention, potentially without the need for the additional weight of cooling systems and intense fire protection systems. If this technology delivers as predicted, the potential is enormous for aviation.

Even in a plane like the 787, this type of battery system has the potential to reduce weight enormously, and also be safer. Or, one could install something about the same weight as the current system, but with the ability to charge while parked. It could be possible to make entire flights on the charge of the battery powering the plane’s electrical systems, without any need to rely on the engines. That could definitely provide some fuel savings.
 
M564038
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 15, 2021 9:53 pm

We already have a working level 3 network, I drive above the average amount but a regular 5kW charger at home is fine for me 90% of the time even on the car with the small battery (28kWh). On the 70kWh Tesla there is simply no such thing as range anxiety for a normal user, and on the 28kWh it is only very slight.
You are all overcomplicating the grid aspect, a complete electrification of every car is only a 1,5% increase on the grid.

Switch a couple of your old lightbulbs to LEDs, and your footprint will be back to what it was.

Reading these EV threads is like reading articles about women wanting to have the same jobs as men from the 50’s. There is no end to what strange and marginal argumebts can be made to try and resist unevitable change.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sun May 16, 2021 1:35 am

I believe the energy density claims even less than the charging speed ones. Such leap has never happened and is never going to happen. It's clearly theoretical looking at the raw materials, not what is actually possible in a real life battery.

But yes for aircraft density is more important than charging speed, however with swappable batteries you add two problems : impossible to use the batteries as part of the structure, so more weight; and the need to create a network of stored fully charged batteries at airports, so an added cost.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Mon May 17, 2021 5:30 am

aerolimani wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
YokoTsuno wrote:
Pretty easy?

To allow long distance travel you would at least need charging capacity comparable to volumes of cars handled by current petrol stations.

1) To convert current petrol stations to high speed EV charging stations, these need to be connected to high voltage power lines, difficult and very costly in urban environments, but still doable.

2) How are you going to connect your car? Low voltages (100 - 1000V) require wiring gauges which can no longer be handled in any reasonable way by human beings Using high voltages is way too dangerous, requires specialised connectors and training.

3) The equivalent amount of energy currently distributed as fossil fuels has to be generated by power plants. How? With fossil fuels? That is obviously ridiculous. Renewable energy? Is this even possible? Nuclear power plants? Do we still want that after Fukushima and Chernobyl.


Echoing EA CO AS here. Practical minds and governments absolutely still want nuclear power. The key is to have it run by people who give a damn - then it works fine.

Agreed.

For crying out loud, we have ships and submarines cruising around the world on nuclear power. It's doable, and manageable. The only question is how to keep the process clean; how to keep corrupt self-interests out of the equation. But, I believe it is more than possible.

Secretly, I hope for fusion to become a reality, but to make the same dark joke as many scientists, "nuclear fusion is only 30 years away, and next year it will still be 30 years away."


Fission still makes sense even if we get Fusion going. There are reactor designs like the dual liquid lead reactor that can use our current nuclear waste as fuel, and their waste for the most part has manageable storage times of ~300 years. Seems to solve more problems then just producing energy.

M564038 wrote:
We already have a working level 3 network, I drive above the average amount but a regular 5kW charger at home is fine for me 90% of the time even on the car with the small battery (28kWh). On the 70kWh Tesla there is simply no such thing as range anxiety for a normal user, and on the 28kWh it is only very slight.


Depends on where you are driving..... this total EV fan would disagree for one of his regular trips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6bbWNiVeeM

You are all overcomplicating the grid aspect, a complete electrification of every car is only a 1,5% increase on the grid.


If you are extemely wastefull with electricity it may be 1.5% for cars alone, but for most western countries it is closer to 20% for road traffic including trucks.
Now, even 20% aren´t a huge problem if they are neatly distributed around the clock, but people coming home after a holiday weekend might... after all even the US has only slightly more then 3 KW installed generation capacity per citizen. Even half of US households charging at 5 KW would already eat up 1/3 of all installed capacity, and that is not just sitting around waiting for EV to dominate the market.

YokoTsuno wrote:
2) How are you going to connect your car? Low voltages (100 - 1000V) require wiring gauges which can no longer be handled in any reasonable way by human beings Using high voltages is way too dangerous, requires specialised connectors and training.


:checkmark: :checkmark:
Even today's fast chargers already use liquid cooling for the cables to keep them at manageable weight for everyone. There won´t be MW chargers unless we get a stable cable sitting in the sun all day super conductor material.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
M564038
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Mon May 17, 2021 7:54 am

I am sorry tommy, but what was I supposed to get from watching that video of someone that has less insight into the subject than myself?

Of course EVs are still coming down in price, because of less taxation compared to fossils, EVs has been the economical thing to buy here for several years already, but they should be moving into this territory for everyone else right about now.
If you want to watch some actual practical and informative videos about EVs, then this channel is the one to watch:

https://youtube.com/user/bjornnyland

As for grid load, since my city is now 40% EVs, has a sizeable share of the city busses being EVs, and s lot of trucks and work vehicles also being ran only on electricity, we actually have the real world numbers on this. This is absolutely zero problem for the grid, but there is quite a lot of upgrades taking place at the end users, however, most countries tend to have larger electrical inputs to the end user than what we traditionally have (230V/25A(+10A), so this is actually even less of an issue most other places in the western world.



tommy1808 wrote:
aerolimani wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Echoing EA CO AS here. Practical minds and governments absolutely still want nuclear power. The key is to have it run by people who give a damn - then it works fine.

Agreed.

For crying out loud, we have ships and submarines cruising around the world on nuclear power. It's doable, and manageable. The only question is how to keep the process clean; how to keep corrupt self-interests out of the equation. But, I believe it is more than possible.

Secretly, I hope for fusion to become a reality, but to make the same dark joke as many scientists, "nuclear fusion is only 30 years away, and next year it will still be 30 years away."


Fission still makes sense even if we get Fusion going. There are reactor designs like the dual liquid lead reactor that can use our current nuclear waste as fuel, and their waste for the most part has manageable storage times of ~300 years. Seems to solve more problems then just producing energy.

M564038 wrote:
We already have a working level 3 network, I drive above the average amount but a regular 5kW charger at home is fine for me 90% of the time even on the car with the small battery (28kWh). On the 70kWh Tesla there is simply no such thing as range anxiety for a normal user, and on the 28kWh it is only very slight.


Depends on where you are driving..... this total EV fan would disagree for one of his regular trips: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6bbWNiVeeM

You are all overcomplicating the grid aspect, a complete electrification of every car is only a 1,5% increase on the grid.


If you are extemely wastefull with electricity it may be 1.5% for cars alone, but for most western countries it is closer to 20% for road traffic including trucks.
Now, even 20% aren´t a huge problem if they are neatly distributed around the clock, but people coming home after a holiday weekend might... after all even the US has only slightly more then 3 KW installed generation capacity per citizen. Even half of US households charging at 5 KW would already eat up 1/3 of all installed capacity, and that is not just sitting around waiting for EV to dominate the market.

YokoTsuno wrote:
2) How are you going to connect your car? Low voltages (100 - 1000V) require wiring gauges which can no longer be handled in any reasonable way by human beings Using high voltages is way too dangerous, requires specialised connectors and training.


:checkmark: :checkmark:
Even today's fast chargers already use liquid cooling for the cables to keep them at manageable weight for everyone. There won´t be MW chargers unless we get a stable cable sitting in the sun all day super conductor material.

best regards
Thomas
 
tommy1808
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Mon May 17, 2021 8:34 am

M564038 wrote:
I am sorry tommy, but what was I supposed to get from watching that video of someone that has less insight into the subject than myself?


That even a 310 miles rated EV driver can experience range anxiety depending on where they go.

Of course EVs are still coming down in price, because of less taxation compared to fossils, EVs has been the economical thing to buy here for several years already, but they should be moving into this territory for everyone else right about now.


Oh, don´t get me wrong, EV is the way to go, and for most applications BEV will be the right choice. I am just saying that the whole "pfft..no problem for grid and power production" is nonsense.

This is absolutely zero problem for the grid, but there is quite a lot of upgrades taking place at the end users,


Grid and power production are separate issues. Addressing those will cost a hell lot of money down the road. That is absolutely fine and there are little in the way of alternatives, but the no issue thinking is pure nonsense. I don´t mind that at all since about 1/3 of my employers revenue comes from Smart Grid and Substation automation, and hence much of my pay, but that also gives me a good insight in how much has to be done to make that work, and it is going to be a very significant investment.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
M564038
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Mon May 17, 2021 9:54 am

Of course there will be massive investments! There already is! It is the biggest revolution in transport in a century or more! But the challenges are in general presented overly dramatic, and we know here, since we are already well into it.

tommy1808 wrote:
M564038 wrote:
I am sorry tommy, but what was I supposed to get from watching that video of someone that has less insight into the subject than myself?


That even a 310 miles rated EV driver can experience range anxiety depending on where they go.

Of course EVs are still coming down in price, because of less taxation compared to fossils, EVs has been the economical thing to buy here for several years already, but they should be moving into this territory for everyone else right about now.


Oh, don´t get me wrong, EV is the way to go, and for most applications BEV will be the right choice. I am just saying that the whole "pfft..no problem for grid and power production" is nonsense.

This is absolutely zero problem for the grid, but there is quite a lot of upgrades taking place at the end users,


Grid and power production are separate issues. Addressing those will cost a hell lot of money down the road. That is absolutely fine and there are little in the way of alternatives, but the no issue thinking is pure nonsense. I don´t mind that at all since about 1/3 of my employers revenue comes from Smart Grid and Substation automation, and hence much of my pay, but that also gives me a good insight in how much has to be done to make that work, and it is going to be a very significant investment.

best regards
Thomas
 
pune
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Tue May 18, 2021 8:49 pm

I don't understand how people in other countries which are supposed to be much more wealthier than China aren't able to replicate or do in charging network what China is able to do -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P7fTPLSMeI
 
pune
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Tue May 18, 2021 8:53 pm

I can understand nudge economics and nudge policies where you make policy so that EV vehicles are cheaper and fossil fuel cars become more expensive. That should be the policy. Even Germany, which was at one time a fossil fuel car lover nation, because they made the most cars and was part of its export, when it is and can change its policies so that EV becomes part of Germany by 2030, then why can't other countries -

https://energypost.eu/e-mobility-in-ger ... ff-target/
 
pune
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Tue May 18, 2021 8:58 pm

Also this idea that charging stations would need high-power lines is simply old-world thinking. What is needed is something on the lines of Gridserve, pull electricity from air and put it in cars, the lesser the distance, the lesser the loss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoN4WCpuxHY
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Tue May 18, 2021 9:10 pm

pune wrote:
I can understand nudge economics and nudge policies where you make policy so that EV vehicles are cheaper and fossil fuel cars become more expensive. That should be the policy. Even Germany, which was at one time a fossil fuel car lover nation, because they made the most cars and was part of its export, when it is and can change its policies so that EV becomes part of Germany by 2030, then why can't other countries -

https://energypost.eu/e-mobility-in-ger ... ff-target/


Which is exactly why I’ve bought my last Mercedes after owning six—I’ll restore an old one before operating an electric Mercedes. I’m still extremely unhappy that sixes and eights have gone away.
 
M564038
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Tue May 18, 2021 9:41 pm

You will, as everyone else that has made the switch, absolutely love EVs. The driving is so much more fun than the old fossil junk. If you end up clutching to old tech just because of stubborness, I hope you are taxed hard for it.
Climate change and local pollution is real, and getting rid of that fossil car makes a real difference.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
pune wrote:
I can understand nudge economics and nudge policies where you make policy so that EV vehicles are cheaper and fossil fuel cars become more expensive. That should be the policy. Even Germany, which was at one time a fossil fuel car lover nation, because they made the most cars and was part of its export, when it is and can change its policies so that EV becomes part of Germany by 2030, then why can't other countries -

https://energypost.eu/e-mobility-in-ger ... ff-target/


Which is exactly why I’ve bought my last Mercedes after owning six—I’ll restore an old one before operating an electric Mercedes. I’m still extremely unhappy that sixes and eights have gone away.
 
pune
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Wed May 19, 2021 12:16 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
pune wrote:
I can understand nudge economics and nudge policies where you make policy so that EV vehicles are cheaper and fossil fuel cars become more expensive. That should be the policy. Even Germany, which was at one time a fossil fuel car lover nation, because they made the most cars and was part of its export, when it is and can change its policies so that EV becomes part of Germany by 2030, then why can't other countries -

https://energypost.eu/e-mobility-in-ger ... ff-target/


Which is exactly why I’ve bought my last Mercedes after owning six—I’ll restore an old one before operating an electric Mercedes. I’m still extremely unhappy that sixes and eights have gone away.


The problem what that means is that you don't believe in climate change. And that is the precise reason why even Shell's Greenhouse effect which is in public domain from Year 2000 doesn't have the desired effect.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... -Document3

And that document made by shell scientists for shell people to show how their products were harmful to the environment. going all the way upto 2020 predicting how the oceans will rise and to what level and Shell rising their oil platforms by that much so they wouldn't be submerged.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Wed May 19, 2021 3:09 am

pune wrote:
I don't understand how people in other countries which are supposed to be much more wealthier than China aren't able to replicate or do in charging network what China is able to do -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P7fTPLSMeI


Because there's a massive difference between building an infrastructure from scratch and replacing an existing one.
There are also massive systemic differences between how China and other nations operate.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Which is exactly why I’ve bought my last Mercedes after owning six—I’ll restore an old one before operating an electric Mercedes. I’m still extremely unhappy that sixes and eights have gone away.


Man, you never miss an opportunity to tick every possible boomer syereotype there is, do you?
:wink2:
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
pune
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Wed May 19, 2021 8:22 am

Francoflier wrote:
pune wrote:
I don't understand how people in other countries which are supposed to be much more wealthier than China aren't able to replicate or do in charging network what China is able to do -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P7fTPLSMeI


Because there's a massive difference between building an infrastructure from scratch and replacing an existing one.
There are also massive systemic differences between how China and other nations operate.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Which is exactly why I’ve bought my last Mercedes after owning six—I’ll restore an old one before operating an electric Mercedes. I’m still extremely unhappy that sixes and eights have gone away.


Man, you never miss an opportunity to tick every possible boomer syereotype there is, do you?
:wink2:



Franco, if that was the case, how come so many countries in Europe are able to do the change, UK itself weaned away and is more and more into wind and solar energy. And they are building all this new infrastructure from ground up.

Even Norway, France and many other countries are all going gung-ho about it. UK is into carbon-negative housing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovytcaA82bA
 
pune
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Wed May 19, 2021 8:25 am

There is also a channel called Now You Know in Youtube where basically the anchors ask about random battery charger stations from around the world and people give their rating of the stations -

https://www.youtube.com/c/NowYouKnowChannel/videos
 
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Aesma
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Wed May 19, 2021 9:00 am

I don't believe in hydrogen cars precisely because it would need an entirely new infrastructure, and the benefits aren't worth it compared to battery electric cars. With that said building enough charging stations along major highways, I'm sure will require some new high voltage lines.

Here in France during summer every week-end is called a "chassé-croisé" (a dancing term, meaning something like crossover), millions of cars cross the country in all directions, the worst being the week-end between July and August. You can expect to be spending many hours in traffic. Rest areas are overcrowded. There are lines at the pumps. Clearly to cover for all these cars being electric is a massive challenge.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
tommy1808
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Wed May 19, 2021 11:53 am

Aesma wrote:
I don't believe in hydrogen cars precisely because it would need an entirely new infrastructure, and the benefits aren't worth it compared to battery electric cars.


Hydrogen can be stored very efficiently even for long times with minimal losses, electricity can not. Storing months worth of hydrogen is the, relatively speaking, cheap undertaking of adopting methane storage facilities, doing the same for batteries is a whole different ball game. Old gas storage can even handle that without any change since goal gas was about 50% H2 anyways. unless power production is relatively even over the year there is no way doing 100% renewable without significant storage. And once you have hydrogen it is more efficient to fill that into vehicles than using it to make electricity and fill that into batteries.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Thu May 20, 2021 2:44 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Which is exactly why I’ve bought my last Mercedes after owning six—I’ll restore an old one before operating an electric Mercedes. I’m still extremely unhappy that sixes and eights have gone away.



Sooner or later, you just will not have a choice. Without regard to that...

Why the anxiety over the six & eights? IINM, you can still get those from Benz, just at a higher price point, as they are largely for the AMG models and the wagons. In any case, this is just technological progress.

Consider... I recently traded a 4cyl vehicle in to go full EV. My 'old' car was a modest 2.2L displacement that ran acceptable, bordering on higher performance numbers. I had bought that one for efficiency, but the interesting thing is that by performance metrics, there was not a lot of daylight between this and the 1995 Z28 I once drove, which was a 5.7L V8. This is the efficiency, and lately, increased reliability of turbos for you.

You will not do this, but I would invite you to consider actually operating an EV Benz or entry level Tesla for a day or two. You miss the noise, but nothing performance wise. There is no substitute for the instant, full power E delivers.
Well, you know what they say. Whatever doesn't kill you...
... Must not be an MD-11.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Thu May 20, 2021 5:08 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Which is exactly why I’ve bought my last Mercedes after owning six—I’ll restore an old one before operating an electric Mercedes. I’m still extremely unhappy that sixes and eights have gone away.



Sooner or later, you just will not have a choice. Without regard to that...


not really.... a well maintained car can pretty much run forever. And i don´t think those would, or should, be made illegal.

best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
M564038
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Thu May 20, 2021 3:42 pm

Why not?
It is the actual usage of the car that pollutes, not the manufacture.

The most environmentally friendly thing is to scrap the old fossils and go EV as soon as possible.

tommy1808 wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Which is exactly why I’ve bought my last Mercedes after owning six—I’ll restore an old one before operating an electric Mercedes. I’m still extremely unhappy that sixes and eights have gone away.



Sooner or later, you just will not have a choice. Without regard to that...


not really.... a well maintained car can pretty much run forever. And i don´t think those would, or should, be made illegal.

best regards
Thomas
 
pune
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Thu May 20, 2021 11:50 pm

On the power generation and storage front, lot of gravity-assist technologies are coming up, something like -

https://gravitricity.com/#about
 
YokoTsuno
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Fri May 21, 2021 4:38 am

M564038 wrote:
Why not?
It is the actual usage of the car that pollutes, not the manufacture.

The most environmentally friendly thing is to scrap the old fossils and go EV as soon as possible.
The most environmentally friendly solution is a massive change in human attitude.

- Most electric energy is still produced by fossil fuels, and there is no simple alternative for that unless you start building nuclear power plants.
- Transportation is only part of the problem, heating, cooling and production are just as important and most people still heat their houses with fossil fuels. And there is no easy fix for that problem either.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Fri May 21, 2021 4:46 am

YokoTsuno wrote:
M564038 wrote:
Why not?
It is the actual usage of the car that pollutes, not the manufacture.

The most environmentally friendly thing is to scrap the old fossils and go EV as soon as possible.
The most environmentally friendly solution is a massive change in human attitude.

- Most electric energy is still produced by fossil fuels, and there is no simple alternative for that unless you start building nuclear power plants.
- Transportation is only part of the problem, heating, cooling and production are just as important and most people still heat their houses with fossil fuels. And there is no easy fix for that problem either.


Attitudes will only change for x number of people. That's why we need technical mitigation as well.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
YokoTsuno
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Fri May 21, 2021 5:16 am

I agree. But there seem to be a number of people who seem to believe that EV will miraculously resolve the problem. Sort of “I drive a EV, no longer my problem, my conscience is clean now” while in reality a switch to EV is only going to expose the real problem, the amounts of energy and resources we collectively use. This is not just a transportation thing, but also homes and manufacturing. There is simply no simple fix for that.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Fri May 21, 2021 5:38 am

YokoTsuno wrote:
I agree. But there seem to be a number of people who seem to believe that EV will miraculously resolve the problem. Sort of “I drive a EV, no longer my problem, my conscience is clean now” while in reality a switch to EV is only going to expose the real problem, the amounts of energy and resources we collectively use. This is not just a transportation thing, but also homes and manufacturing. There is simply no simple fix for that.


How people move and where they live are the hardest aspects to change. The biggest environmental impact can be had from changing how agriculture is done - and it affects the fewest people overall. Since these things are step by step, I'd advocate making citizens aware of the benefits to them from reforming agriculture, to help generate the political will to get such changes through. If recent experience in developed countries is anything, farmers are usually not very willing to make any significant changes unless they have a $$ benefit.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
M564038
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Fri May 21, 2021 5:56 am

Good points.
We not only need to electrify transportation, we need to clean up how we get our energy as well.
I happen to live a place that is, and has always been 100% renewables, and even though there is a long way to go, there are clean options. Nuclear being the obvious one for 100% grid compatible, stable energy.

That being said, EVs isolated speaking, does add a few percent improvement, and also does wonders for local air quality in the cities.
YokoTsuno wrote:
I agree. But there seem to be a number of people who seem to believe that EV will miraculously resolve the problem. Sort of “I drive a EV, no longer my problem, my conscience is clean now” while in reality a switch to EV is only going to expose the real problem, the amounts of energy and resources we collectively use. This is not just a transportation thing, but also homes and manufacturing. There is simply no simple fix for that.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Fri May 21, 2021 6:07 am

In France there are laws tackling all of these (and incentives too). Nothing perfect but it will have an impact. For example in a couple of years it will be illegal to rent an inefficient house/flat. New houses/buildings can't be heated using fossil fuels. From 2022 new oil furnaces can't be installed even to replace old ones.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Fri May 21, 2021 6:30 am

Aesma wrote:
In France there are laws tackling all of these (and incentives too). Nothing perfect but it will have an impact. For example in a couple of years it will be illegal to rent an inefficient house/flat. New houses/buildings can't be heated using fossil fuels. From 2022 new oil furnaces can't be installed even to replace old ones.


Obviously such laws will never pass muster in the US, especially at the national level.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
M564038
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Fri May 21, 2021 6:58 am

Here we actually outlawed oil heating a couple of years ago, and there are stricter and stricter regulations on fireplaces too.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sat May 22, 2021 6:16 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
YokoTsuno wrote:
Do we still want that after Fukushima and Chernobyl.


Hell yes we do. Chernobyl was caused by a flawed design, and Fukushima was a man-made accident, triggered by natural hazards, that could and should have been avoided.


I agree we should have more nuclear, but saying Fukushima was "a man-made accident triggered by natural hazards that could and should have been avoided" does not inspire confidence at all. In fact, they articulate the main problem with nuclear power. And it isn't that the technology is unsafe (at least not the new stuff).

The US and EU currently have political factors that can administer nuclear power well. But I am not optimistic that other countries are up to the challenge. They will continue to build in the wrong places, using the wrong methods, and/or operate incorrectly. I no longer have faith in the political stability necessary for things like nuclear power "forever," even in the US or EU. There is a potential for violent revolutions in many different countries. Violent revolutions are normal throughout history and can happen again, even in the EU or perhaps the US. Just a random thought on it.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sun May 23, 2021 7:10 am

That's why development of "foolproof" nuclear would be great. Not just more tolerance to failure, giving more time before something catastrophic happens, but a plant that could be hit by a zombie apocalypse and just shut down gracefully.

Aaron747 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
In France there are laws tackling all of these (and incentives too). Nothing perfect but it will have an impact. For example in a couple of years it will be illegal to rent an inefficient house/flat. New houses/buildings can't be heated using fossil fuels. From 2022 new oil furnaces can't be installed even to replace old ones.


Obviously such laws will never pass muster in the US, especially at the national level.


If they pass in a few major states it can have a significant impact already. Do car manufacturers make cars that can't pass California's emission rules ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
M564038
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Re: Aluminum Ion battery tech could change the world

Sun May 23, 2021 9:04 am

In the mean time, more people die from fossil fuel emissions EVERY DAY than has died from all use of nuclear power combined since it started in the 50’s.

LCDFlight wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
YokoTsuno wrote:
Do we still want that after Fukushima and Chernobyl.


Hell yes we do. Chernobyl was caused by a flawed design, and Fukushima was a man-made accident, triggered by natural hazards, that could and should have been avoided.


I agree we should have more nuclear, but saying Fukushima was "a man-made accident triggered by natural hazards that could and should have been avoided" does not inspire confidence at all. In fact, they articulate the main problem with nuclear power. And it isn't that the technology is unsafe (at least not the new stuff).

The US and EU currently have political factors that can administer nuclear power well. But I am not optimistic that other countries are up to the challenge. They will continue to build in the wrong places, using the wrong methods, and/or operate incorrectly. I no longer have faith in the political stability necessary for things like nuclear power "forever," even in the US or EU. There is a potential for violent revolutions in many different countries. Violent revolutions are normal throughout history and can happen again, even in the EU or perhaps the US. Just a random thought on it.

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