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ArchGuy1
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Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 19, 2021 12:42 am

The De Soto Bridge, which carries Interstate 40 across the Mississippi River between Memphis, Tennessee and West Memphis, Arkansas had been shut down for about a week after a Crack was found during an inspection. Barge traffic on the Mississippi River under the bridge has also been shut down and this combined with the shut down of truck traffic across the bridge could have a major impact on the US economy. A bridge inspector was also fired for failing to note a Crack about two years ago. Will be interesting to see the fallout from this.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 19, 2021 12:44 am

That infrastructure jobs program can’t come soon enough. Get with the program GOP. Developed countries should not have infrastructure falling apart.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
CaptHadley
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 19, 2021 12:46 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
The De Soto Bridge, which carries Interstate 40 across the Mississippi River between Memphis, Tennessee and West Memphis, Arkansas had been shut down for about a week after a Crack was found during an inspection. Barge traffic on the Mississippi River under the bridge has also been shut down and this combined with the shut down of truck traffic across the bridge could have a major impact on the US economy. A bridge inspector was also fired for failing to note a Crack about two years ago. Will be interesting to see the fallout from this.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html



Have you ever driven across that bridge? What do you think that would feel like knowing that bridge had a giant crack in it.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 19, 2021 12:49 am

CaptHadley wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The De Soto Bridge, which carries Interstate 40 across the Mississippi River between Memphis, Tennessee and West Memphis, Arkansas had been shut down for about a week after a Crack was found during an inspection. Barge traffic on the Mississippi River under the bridge has also been shut down and this combined with the shut down of truck traffic across the bridge could have a major impact on the US economy. A bridge inspector was also fired for failing to note a Crack about two years ago. Will be interesting to see the fallout from this.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html



Have you ever driven across that bridge? What do you think that would feel like knowing that bridge had a giant crack in it.


That’s some pure gold there :rotfl:
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ArchGuy1
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 19, 2021 12:52 am

Aaron747 wrote:
That infrastructure jobs program can’t come soon enough. Get with the program GOP. Developed countries should not have infrastructure falling apart.

Deferred maintenance and design flaws on infrastructure is nothing new in America. In 1983, a section of the Mianus River Bridge on Interstate 95 in Connecticut collapsed due to corrosion in the pin and hanger assembly that was caused by deferred maintenance. In 1967, a crack in an eyeball on the Silver Bridge between Ohio and West Virginia caused that Bridge to collapse. So, it was a good thing the bridge inspector on the DeSoto Bridge was fired.
http://blog.tstc.org/2008/06/27/remembe ... s-lessons/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/timeline.c ... 5404c4dffa
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 19, 2021 1:05 am

Aaron747 wrote:
That infrastructure jobs program can’t come soon enough. Get with the program GOP. Developed countries should not have infrastructure falling apart.


:checkmark: At least Biden is trying to instill preventative maintenance.

ArchGuy1 wrote:
The De Soto Bridge, which carries Interstate 40 across the Mississippi River between Memphis, Tennessee and West Memphis, Arkansas had been shut down for about a week after a Crack was found during an inspection. Barge traffic on the Mississippi River under the bridge has also been shut down and this combined with the shut down of truck traffic across the bridge could have a major impact on the US economy. A bridge inspector was also fired for failing to note a Crack about two years ago. Will be interesting to see the fallout from this.


How's I-55 handling it? Just a temporary setback at best. We don't need another I-35 Minneapolis collapse.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 19, 2021 1:06 am

CaptHadley wrote:

Have you ever driven across that bridge? What do you think that would feel like knowing that bridge had a giant crack in it.


Many times. I think truth be known the inspections on these bridges is woefully inaccurate.
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Aesma
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 19, 2021 9:13 am

To put things in perspective, I've driven across a particular bridge many times, the last time about 1 week before this happened :

Image
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cledaybuck
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 19, 2021 12:39 pm

That's not a crack. That looks fractured.
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par13del
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 19, 2021 1:01 pm

ArchGuy1 wrote:
The De Soto Bridge, which carries Interstate 40 across the Mississippi River between Memphis, Tennessee and West Memphis, Arkansas had been shut down for about a week after a Crack was found during an inspection. Barge traffic on the Mississippi River under the bridge has also been shut down and this combined with the shut down of truck traffic across the bridge could have a major impact on the US economy. A bridge inspector was also fired for failing to note a Crack about two years ago. Will be interesting to see the fallout from this.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html

Why was this not a part of the "shovel ready" projects that was implemented by the Federal Government a few years ago, or was it overlooked during that project?
I ask because items like infrastructure are not repaired for a 2 or 3 year period but for the long haul, even if that means replacement.
I am still surprised at the fact that we still have so much infrastructure work to be done in the USA even after that being a central focus of a past administration, it reflect poorly on the public servants who are supposed to implement the mandates of the political leaders. The politicians come and go, the public servant actually run things.
 
petertenthije
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 19, 2021 1:27 pm

par13del wrote:
I am still surprised at the fact that we still have so much infrastructure work to be done in the USA even after that being a central focus of a past administration, it reflect poorly on the public servants who are supposed to implement the mandates of the political leaders. The politicians come and go, the public servant actually run things.
If the politicians make a lot of promises, but fails to allocate money or resources to follow up on their promises, then there is really not much the public servants can do.
The first thing to remember is always treat your kite like you treat your woman.
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par13del
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 19, 2021 3:20 pm

petertenthije wrote:
par13del wrote:
I am still surprised at the fact that we still have so much infrastructure work to be done in the USA even after that being a central focus of a past administration, it reflect poorly on the public servants who are supposed to implement the mandates of the political leaders. The politicians come and go, the public servant actually run things.
If the politicians make a lot of promises, but fails to allocate money or resources to follow up on their promises, then there is really not much the public servants can do.

As far as I know, under the Obama administration the funds were allocated at the Federal level, if I recall correctly, the Governor of Florida decided against using the funds for the state rail / highway updates, but I think he was an outlier....have to refresh my memory...
 
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seb146
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 19, 2021 4:09 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:

Have you ever driven across that bridge? What do you think that would feel like knowing that bridge had a giant crack in it.


Many times. I think truth be known the inspections on these bridges is woefully inaccurate.


So how do we, as a nation, make sure the inspectors know they are doing their job and they are doing their job correctly? Before the Oakland Bay Bridge opened the new span between Oakland and Treasure Island, inspectors found some of the bolts used were failing.

https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/ ... 428913.php
https://www.mercurynews.com/2013/07/08/ ... perts-say/
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ltbewr
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 19, 2021 4:24 pm

Like with an airplane crash, there are investigations underway to determine what happened here. An inspector involved with a previous inspection has been fired per a link in an above post. There is also issues with the design of this bridge also noted in a link in an above post. This bridge was initially built in around 1973 and likely wasn't designed with earthquake protections (yes, there is a major fault in the region) as not dealt with then. It may have been built and designed more to accommodate barges under it as well to hold down costs. Insufficient frequency of inspections, weak methods of them, deferred maintenance could be factors too. One has to wonder if corruption by the initial contractors using the wrong steel or methods in preparing this piece to make more profits occurred.
There has been far too much deferred maintenance, possible insufficient frequency or poor inspection procedures and methods with too much of infrastructure in the USA. Sometimes though, stuff happens no matter how much care is taken. Many bridges have been build in the past are past usable lives, had massively deferred maintenance, carrying far more traffic and weight originally designed for, insufficient inspections and design flaws. Fortunately the major crack was found before it killed people but this may happen more often as our infrastructure faces long term issues.
 
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seb146
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 19, 2021 5:07 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Like with an airplane crash, there are investigations underway to determine what happened here. An inspector involved with a previous inspection has been fired per a link in an above post. There is also issues with the design of this bridge also noted in a link in an above post. This bridge was initially built in around 1973 and likely wasn't designed with earthquake protections (yes, there is a major fault in the region) as not dealt with then. It may have been built and designed more to accommodate barges under it as well to hold down costs. Insufficient frequency of inspections, weak methods of them, deferred maintenance could be factors too. One has to wonder if corruption by the initial contractors using the wrong steel or methods in preparing this piece to make more profits occurred.
There has been far too much deferred maintenance, possible insufficient frequency or poor inspection procedures and methods with too much of infrastructure in the USA. Sometimes though, stuff happens no matter how much care is taken. Many bridges have been build in the past are past usable lives, had massively deferred maintenance, carrying far more traffic and weight originally designed for, insufficient inspections and design flaws. Fortunately the major crack was found before it killed people but this may happen more often as our infrastructure faces long term issues.


You bring up another good point: contractors often are given incentives to finish projects on time or early. Corners are cut because all the contractors see is $$$$ and not public safety.
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cjg225
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Thu May 20, 2021 12:31 am

Aaron747 wrote:
That infrastructure jobs program can’t come soon enough. Get with the program GOP. Developed countries should not have infrastructure falling apart.

This happens no matter who is in power.

Infrastructure isn't sexy and no one wants to pay for it. Both sides give infrastructure lip service and then blame the other side for it not working out.

Rinse, repeat.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
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seb146
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Thu May 20, 2021 1:32 am

cjg225 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
That infrastructure jobs program can’t come soon enough. Get with the program GOP. Developed countries should not have infrastructure falling apart.

This happens no matter who is in power.

Infrastructure isn't sexy and no one wants to pay for it. Both sides give infrastructure lip service and then blame the other side for it not working out.

Rinse, repeat.


Yeah, except Democrats do not block infrastructure plans. Republicans block those plans as pork and we just need to pass a stripped down budget with billions going to defense because that's not pork. So, no, both sides do not do it.
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Aaron747
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Thu May 20, 2021 2:16 am

seb146 wrote:
cjg225 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
That infrastructure jobs program can’t come soon enough. Get with the program GOP. Developed countries should not have infrastructure falling apart.

This happens no matter who is in power.

Infrastructure isn't sexy and no one wants to pay for it. Both sides give infrastructure lip service and then blame the other side for it not working out.

Rinse, repeat.


Yeah, except Democrats do not block infrastructure plans. Republicans block those plans as pork and we just need to pass a stripped down budget with billions going to defense because that's not pork. So, no, both sides do not do it.


They don't? The Bay Bridge east span was deemed seismically unsafe after the 1989 earthquake and wasn't fully replaced until 2013. Not a single GOP county rep in the Bay Area - that sounds like Dems blocking infrastructure to me.
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cjg225
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Thu May 20, 2021 12:05 pm

seb146 wrote:
Yeah, except Democrats do not block infrastructure plans. Republicans block those plans as pork and we just need to pass a stripped down budget with billions going to defense because that's not pork. So, no, both sides do not do it.

If you believe that, boy, do I have the deal of the century for you on some beachfront property in Wyoming.
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
johns624
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Thu May 20, 2021 12:50 pm

[threeid][/threeid]
cjg225 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Yeah, except Democrats do not block infrastructure plans. Republicans block those plans as pork and we just need to pass a stripped down budget with billions going to defense because that's not pork. So, no, both sides do not do it.

If you believe that, boy, do I have the deal of the century for you on some beachfront property in Wyoming.
+1 Any rep who wants to remain in office votes for stuff for their own district. It's just convincing others that it's worthwhile. Or, the old "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" deal.
 
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seb146
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Thu May 20, 2021 4:07 pm

johns624 wrote:
[threeid][/threeid]
cjg225 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Yeah, except Democrats do not block infrastructure plans. Republicans block those plans as pork and we just need to pass a stripped down budget with billions going to defense because that's not pork. So, no, both sides do not do it.

If you believe that, boy, do I have the deal of the century for you on some beachfront property in Wyoming.
+1 Any rep who wants to remain in office votes for stuff for their own district. It's just convincing others that it's worthwhile. Or, the old "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" deal.


I seem to recall an infrastructure plan in Alaska that was shot down as pork. The Bridge To Nowhere. There have been calls for repairing our crumbling infrastructure for decades. Since before the I-35 collapse in Minneapolis. But, we can't because that's bad and wrong for some reason.
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IADCA
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Fri May 21, 2021 7:19 pm

par13del wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The De Soto Bridge, which carries Interstate 40 across the Mississippi River between Memphis, Tennessee and West Memphis, Arkansas had been shut down for about a week after a Crack was found during an inspection. Barge traffic on the Mississippi River under the bridge has also been shut down and this combined with the shut down of truck traffic across the bridge could have a major impact on the US economy. A bridge inspector was also fired for failing to note a Crack about two years ago. Will be interesting to see the fallout from this.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html

Why was this not a part of the "shovel ready" projects that was implemented by the Federal Government a few years ago, or was it overlooked during that project?
I ask because items like infrastructure are not repaired for a 2 or 3 year period but for the long haul, even if that means replacement.
I am still surprised at the fact that we still have so much infrastructure work to be done in the USA even after that being a central focus of a past administration, it reflect poorly on the public servants who are supposed to implement the mandates of the political leaders. The politicians come and go, the public servant actually run things.


That "shovel ready" infrastructure bill was in 2009 - 12 years ago. The De Soto Bridge is a decade or two newer than a lot of interstate highway infrastructure, and given that it's in a more tolerant climate than a lot of other highways would be expected to be less critical. When you're rolling back to 2009, if you ask to replace a bridge that's then less than 40 years old with no apparent major structural issues, you're going to get some odd looks.
 
kalvado
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Sat May 22, 2021 12:24 pm

seb146 wrote:
cjg225 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
That infrastructure jobs program can’t come soon enough. Get with the program GOP. Developed countries should not have infrastructure falling apart.

This happens no matter who is in power.

Infrastructure isn't sexy and no one wants to pay for it. Both sides give infrastructure lip service and then blame the other side for it not working out.

Rinse, repeat.


Yeah, except Democrats do not block infrastructure plans. Republicans block those plans as pork and we just need to pass a stripped down budget with billions going to defense because that's not pork. So, no, both sides do not do it.


Problem with this particular bridge is not red vs blue.
There is a video showing a crack in 2019 - so it was noticed during 2 bridge inspections (feds require annual inspections, Arkansas DOT ups that to annual). That why scapegoat inspector was fired.
Before you blame Trump, there is an image, seemingly showing the same crack in 2016 - and surviving FIVE inspections.

So the problem is again not Obama vs Trump or how to spend money - as was speculated for MCAS - 737MAX scenario; it is nosediving technical qualifications. Throwing money into a raging fire doesn't buy anything.
 
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seb146
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Sat May 22, 2021 2:12 pm

kalvado wrote:
seb146 wrote:
cjg225 wrote:
This happens no matter who is in power.

Infrastructure isn't sexy and no one wants to pay for it. Both sides give infrastructure lip service and then blame the other side for it not working out.

Rinse, repeat.


Yeah, except Democrats do not block infrastructure plans. Republicans block those plans as pork and we just need to pass a stripped down budget with billions going to defense because that's not pork. So, no, both sides do not do it.


Problem with this particular bridge is not red vs blue.
There is a video showing a crack in 2019 - so it was noticed during 2 bridge inspections (feds require annual inspections, Arkansas DOT ups that to annual). That why scapegoat inspector was fired.
Before you blame Trump, there is an image, seemingly showing the same crack in 2016 - and surviving FIVE inspections.

So the problem is again not Obama vs Trump or how to spend money - as was speculated for MCAS - 737MAX scenario; it is nosediving technical qualifications. Throwing money into a raging fire doesn't buy anything.


A bill backed by President Biden was introduced in Congress. The first one, Republicans said "NO!" and demanded bipartisanship and compromise. Democrats changed some parts of the bill and came back and Republicans said "NO!" and demanded bipartisanship. Republicans had Congress for six years and did nothing about infrastructure. So, it kinda is about D vs. R.

This one bridge crack is also about training failure. Two things I wonder about this particular bridge is: what is the threshold each state sets for reporting cracks and what was the incentive to ignore cracks?
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Sat May 22, 2021 3:26 pm

Wouldn't it be someone else, like the State DOT, to decide what to do about a crack in a bridge? I know that WA DOT has generally had a number of bridges on what might be called 'watch'. The inspector sees and reports, the state engineers research and determine what actions are required.
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ER757
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Sat May 22, 2021 4:50 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Wouldn't it be someone else, like the State DOT, to decide what to do about a crack in a bridge? I know that WA DOT has generally had a number of bridges on what might be called 'watch'. The inspector sees and reports, the state engineers research and determine what actions are required.

I'm not an expert on this at all, but I think it may depend on the road itself - the one in MEM is an Interstate highway so federal DOT may take first responsibility. The West Seattle Bridge, to take a recent high profile example, is a local road so WSDOT or maybe even SDOT would have first priority there.
A quick point on above discussions about infrastructure plans and Dem vs GOP - as much as I disdain even the mere mention of #45, I have to say he did want massive spending on infrastructure and said so many times.
 
kalvado
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Sat May 22, 2021 5:34 pm

ER757 wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
Wouldn't it be someone else, like the State DOT, to decide what to do about a crack in a bridge? I know that WA DOT has generally had a number of bridges on what might be called 'watch'. The inspector sees and reports, the state engineers research and determine what actions are required.

I'm not an expert on this at all, but I think it may depend on the road itself - the one in MEM is an Interstate highway so federal DOT may take first responsibility. The West Seattle Bridge, to take a recent high profile example, is a local road so WSDOT or maybe even SDOT would have first priority there.
A quick point on above discussions about infrastructure plans and Dem vs GOP - as much as I disdain even the mere mention of #45, I have to say he did want massive spending on infrastructure and said so many times.


There is no such thing as federal DOT. FHWA - federal highway administration - is a primarily bureaucratic organization, same as FAA.
Interstate highways are generally under the jurisdiction of state DOTs. This bridge goes across state line, so Arkansas DOT and Tennessee DOT somehow share responsibilities over the bridge. As far as I understand, Arkansas DOT is responsible for inspections, while Tenn will be leading agency for repairs.
 
Okie
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Sat May 22, 2021 10:55 pm

kalvado wrote:
There is no such thing as federal DOT. FHWA - federal highway administration - is a primarily bureaucratic organization, same as FAA.
Interstate highways are generally under the jurisdiction of state DOTs. This bridge goes across state line, so Arkansas DOT and Tennessee DOT somehow share responsibilities over the bridge. As far as I understand, Arkansas DOT is responsible for inspections, while Tenn will be leading agency for repairs.

:checkmark:

A barge knocked down a 580ft section of I-40 bridge over the Arkansas River back in 2002. 14 people died in that accident.
They finished demolishing the bridge and built replacement sections of bridge in 2 months flat. The rebuild was by ODOT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-40_bridge_disaster

I am thinking they should be able to build doublers to repair the crack in a few short days and rivet them on.

Apparently the bridge has enough redundancy to operate successfully for years with the crack if the 2016 photo is true.

Okie
 
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cjg225
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Sun May 23, 2021 1:52 am

kalvado wrote:
There is no such thing as federal DOT.

I mean, if we're being technical, there *is* a federal government DOT.... It just doesn't act in the same manner as the state DOTs do...
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stratosphere
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Sun May 23, 2021 9:09 pm

seb146 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Yeah, except Democrats do not block infrastructure plans. Republicans block those plans as pork and we just need to pass a stripped down budget with billions going to defense because that's not pork. So, no, both sides do not do it.


Problem with this particular bridge is not red vs blue.
There is a video showing a crack in 2019 - so it was noticed during 2 bridge inspections (feds require annual inspections, Arkansas DOT ups that to annual). That why scapegoat inspector was fired.
Before you blame Trump, there is an image, seemingly showing the same crack in 2016 - and surviving FIVE inspections.

So the problem is again not Obama vs Trump or how to spend money - as was speculated for MCAS - 737MAX scenario; it is nosediving technical qualifications. Throwing money into a raging fire doesn't buy anything.


A bill backed by President Biden was introduced in Congress. The first one, Republicans said "NO!" and demanded bipartisanship and compromise. Democrats changed some parts of the bill and came back and Republicans said "NO!" and demanded bipartisanship. Republicans had Congress for six years and did nothing about infrastructure. So, it kinda is about D vs. R.

This one bridge crack is also about training failure. Two things I wonder about this particular bridge is: what is the threshold each state sets for reporting cracks and what was the incentive to ignore cracks?


Here again you are not going to like it but this is not a D vs R. Both sides have ignored this issue. The problem now is the Democrats are trying to push a gazllion dollar package with only about 8% is real brick and mortar infrastructure and has every kind of progressive pork you can imagine thrown in there and they want to call it infrastructure. I have no love for the republicans they have failed on a lot of levels including running up the debt but Biden and the Democrats are full blown insane in these Trillion dollar packages. He is only several months into his first term and inflation is already here and growing. I am not saying we don't need things like expanded broadband etc. But these big spending bills need to be shaved. Much like the COVID relief bill less than 10% went to actual COVID. He needs to stop trying to be the new FDR and let our economy grow on its own which it will given the chance. Stop paying people to stay home. I am glad states are stopping the enhanced benefits. As for the bridge I live in the Memphis area and this bridge being out forces everyone on to the other bridge. They had this same inspector doing his inspections for years on the same bridge this is a problem. At the very least they need to rotate inspectors and if there are not enough then hire more. Just like aircraft you need redundancy to be safe. This guy probably did his inspection from the breakroom and just pencil whipped it.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Mon May 24, 2021 10:28 am

ER757 wrote:
#45, I have to say he did want massive spending on infrastructure and said so many times.


He didn't want it enough for the GOP to care.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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seb146
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Mon May 24, 2021 5:58 pm

stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:
kalvado wrote:

Problem with this particular bridge is not red vs blue.
There is a video showing a crack in 2019 - so it was noticed during 2 bridge inspections (feds require annual inspections, Arkansas DOT ups that to annual). That why scapegoat inspector was fired.
Before you blame Trump, there is an image, seemingly showing the same crack in 2016 - and surviving FIVE inspections.

So the problem is again not Obama vs Trump or how to spend money - as was speculated for MCAS - 737MAX scenario; it is nosediving technical qualifications. Throwing money into a raging fire doesn't buy anything.


A bill backed by President Biden was introduced in Congress. The first one, Republicans said "NO!" and demanded bipartisanship and compromise. Democrats changed some parts of the bill and came back and Republicans said "NO!" and demanded bipartisanship. Republicans had Congress for six years and did nothing about infrastructure. So, it kinda is about D vs. R.

This one bridge crack is also about training failure. Two things I wonder about this particular bridge is: what is the threshold each state sets for reporting cracks and what was the incentive to ignore cracks?


Here again you are not going to like it but this is not a D vs R. Both sides have ignored this issue. The problem now is the Democrats are trying to push a gazllion dollar package with only about 8% is real brick and mortar infrastructure and has every kind of progressive pork you can imagine thrown in there and they want to call it infrastructure. I have no love for the republicans they have failed on a lot of levels including running up the debt but Biden and the Democrats are full blown insane in these Trillion dollar packages. He is only several months into his first term and inflation is already here and growing. I am not saying we don't need things like expanded broadband etc. But these big spending bills need to be shaved. Much like the COVID relief bill less than 10% went to actual COVID. He needs to stop trying to be the new FDR and let our economy grow on its own which it will given the chance. Stop paying people to stay home. I am glad states are stopping the enhanced benefits. As for the bridge I live in the Memphis area and this bridge being out forces everyone on to the other bridge. They had this same inspector doing his inspections for years on the same bridge this is a problem. At the very least they need to rotate inspectors and if there are not enough then hire more. Just like aircraft you need redundancy to be safe. This guy probably did his inspection from the breakroom and just pencil whipped it.


So there was no inflation or even setting the groundwork for inflation 2016-2020? Anything not to blame dear leader, I guess.

But the most interesting thing is "both sides do it" and then you point out that both sides do NOT do it. Republicans were in control of government spending roughly 2012-2020. Eight years. They could have spent on infrastructure but they chose not to. Republicans still insisted we need a huge military and cut spending on things like affordable health care, road repair, replacing water pipes, and so on. Democrats have actually introduced a spending bill that will fix these things Republicans have been ignoring for decades. But both sides do it. Since you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
kalvado
Posts: 3205
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Mon May 24, 2021 6:53 pm

seb146 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:

A bill backed by President Biden was introduced in Congress. The first one, Republicans said "NO!" and demanded bipartisanship and compromise. Democrats changed some parts of the bill and came back and Republicans said "NO!" and demanded bipartisanship. Republicans had Congress for six years and did nothing about infrastructure. So, it kinda is about D vs. R.

This one bridge crack is also about training failure. Two things I wonder about this particular bridge is: what is the threshold each state sets for reporting cracks and what was the incentive to ignore cracks?


Here again you are not going to like it but this is not a D vs R. Both sides have ignored this issue. The problem now is the Democrats are trying to push a gazllion dollar package with only about 8% is real brick and mortar infrastructure and has every kind of progressive pork you can imagine thrown in there and they want to call it infrastructure. I have no love for the republicans they have failed on a lot of levels including running up the debt but Biden and the Democrats are full blown insane in these Trillion dollar packages. He is only several months into his first term and inflation is already here and growing. I am not saying we don't need things like expanded broadband etc. But these big spending bills need to be shaved. Much like the COVID relief bill less than 10% went to actual COVID. He needs to stop trying to be the new FDR and let our economy grow on its own which it will given the chance. Stop paying people to stay home. I am glad states are stopping the enhanced benefits. As for the bridge I live in the Memphis area and this bridge being out forces everyone on to the other bridge. They had this same inspector doing his inspections for years on the same bridge this is a problem. At the very least they need to rotate inspectors and if there are not enough then hire more. Just like aircraft you need redundancy to be safe. This guy probably did his inspection from the breakroom and just pencil whipped it.


So there was no inflation or even setting the groundwork for inflation 2016-2020? Anything not to blame dear leader, I guess.

But the most interesting thing is "both sides do it" and then you point out that both sides do NOT do it. Republicans were in control of government spending roughly 2012-2020. Eight years. They could have spent on infrastructure but they chose not to. Republicans still insisted we need a huge military and cut spending on things like affordable health care, road repair, replacing water pipes, and so on. Democrats have actually introduced a spending bill that will fix these things Republicans have been ignoring for decades. But both sides do it. Since you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you.


Was money actually an issue in the bridge situation? Doesn't look so.
Bridge is newer than many, it had some issues, had some service. But - there was a huge problem inspection didn't notice and hence it was never budgeted for. Are you really blaming R or D for that? It may be criminal negligence on the part of inspector, lack of training, lack of understanding, gap in inspection protocol - but not a lack of money as inspections were conducted (as required by law) by a federally trained person. Who was with DOT for 15 years - he could get his training under Bush II, Obama or Trump administration. There is also a periodic re-training required. I don't think training changed much between those administrations, though.

Now a killer question - is this a representative situation? If not - money is not an issue, single person is. If yes - money will not help...
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23877
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Tue May 25, 2021 5:27 pm

kalvado wrote:
seb146 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:

Here again you are not going to like it but this is not a D vs R. Both sides have ignored this issue. The problem now is the Democrats are trying to push a gazllion dollar package with only about 8% is real brick and mortar infrastructure and has every kind of progressive pork you can imagine thrown in there and they want to call it infrastructure. I have no love for the republicans they have failed on a lot of levels including running up the debt but Biden and the Democrats are full blown insane in these Trillion dollar packages. He is only several months into his first term and inflation is already here and growing. I am not saying we don't need things like expanded broadband etc. But these big spending bills need to be shaved. Much like the COVID relief bill less than 10% went to actual COVID. He needs to stop trying to be the new FDR and let our economy grow on its own which it will given the chance. Stop paying people to stay home. I am glad states are stopping the enhanced benefits. As for the bridge I live in the Memphis area and this bridge being out forces everyone on to the other bridge. They had this same inspector doing his inspections for years on the same bridge this is a problem. At the very least they need to rotate inspectors and if there are not enough then hire more. Just like aircraft you need redundancy to be safe. This guy probably did his inspection from the breakroom and just pencil whipped it.


So there was no inflation or even setting the groundwork for inflation 2016-2020? Anything not to blame dear leader, I guess.

But the most interesting thing is "both sides do it" and then you point out that both sides do NOT do it. Republicans were in control of government spending roughly 2012-2020. Eight years. They could have spent on infrastructure but they chose not to. Republicans still insisted we need a huge military and cut spending on things like affordable health care, road repair, replacing water pipes, and so on. Democrats have actually introduced a spending bill that will fix these things Republicans have been ignoring for decades. But both sides do it. Since you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you.


Was money actually an issue in the bridge situation? Doesn't look so.
Bridge is newer than many, it had some issues, had some service. But - there was a huge problem inspection didn't notice and hence it was never budgeted for. Are you really blaming R or D for that? It may be criminal negligence on the part of inspector, lack of training, lack of understanding, gap in inspection protocol - but not a lack of money as inspections were conducted (as required by law) by a federally trained person. Who was with DOT for 15 years - he could get his training under Bush II, Obama or Trump administration. There is also a periodic re-training required. I don't think training changed much between those administrations, though.

Now a killer question - is this a representative situation? If not - money is not an issue, single person is. If yes - money will not help...


Did the inspector overlook the crack because of lack of training? One theory could be that the inspector knew how much money shutting the bridge and repairing the crack would be so he said nothing because both states would balk at the price or simply kick the can down the road, make a temporary repair and fix it when they fix it.

This money could have been spent at any time. If previous inspections showed there was a crack, why wasn't it fixed or even just patched?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
kalvado
Posts: 3205
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Tue May 25, 2021 5:58 pm

seb146 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
seb146 wrote:

So there was no inflation or even setting the groundwork for inflation 2016-2020? Anything not to blame dear leader, I guess.

But the most interesting thing is "both sides do it" and then you point out that both sides do NOT do it. Republicans were in control of government spending roughly 2012-2020. Eight years. They could have spent on infrastructure but they chose not to. Republicans still insisted we need a huge military and cut spending on things like affordable health care, road repair, replacing water pipes, and so on. Democrats have actually introduced a spending bill that will fix these things Republicans have been ignoring for decades. But both sides do it. Since you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you.


Was money actually an issue in the bridge situation? Doesn't look so.
Bridge is newer than many, it had some issues, had some service. But - there was a huge problem inspection didn't notice and hence it was never budgeted for. Are you really blaming R or D for that? It may be criminal negligence on the part of inspector, lack of training, lack of understanding, gap in inspection protocol - but not a lack of money as inspections were conducted (as required by law) by a federally trained person. Who was with DOT for 15 years - he could get his training under Bush II, Obama or Trump administration. There is also a periodic re-training required. I don't think training changed much between those administrations, though.

Now a killer question - is this a representative situation? If not - money is not an issue, single person is. If yes - money will not help...


Did the inspector overlook the crack because of lack of training? One theory could be that the inspector knew how much money shutting the bridge and repairing the crack would be so he said nothing because both states would balk at the price or simply kick the can down the road, make a temporary repair and fix it when they fix it.

This money could have been spent at any time. If previous inspections showed there was a crack, why wasn't it fixed or even just patched?

This goes into "9/11 was an inside job" category....
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23877
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 26, 2021 6:53 am

kalvado wrote:
seb146 wrote:
kalvado wrote:

Was money actually an issue in the bridge situation? Doesn't look so.
Bridge is newer than many, it had some issues, had some service. But - there was a huge problem inspection didn't notice and hence it was never budgeted for. Are you really blaming R or D for that? It may be criminal negligence on the part of inspector, lack of training, lack of understanding, gap in inspection protocol - but not a lack of money as inspections were conducted (as required by law) by a federally trained person. Who was with DOT for 15 years - he could get his training under Bush II, Obama or Trump administration. There is also a periodic re-training required. I don't think training changed much between those administrations, though.

Now a killer question - is this a representative situation? If not - money is not an issue, single person is. If yes - money will not help...


Did the inspector overlook the crack because of lack of training? One theory could be that the inspector knew how much money shutting the bridge and repairing the crack would be so he said nothing because both states would balk at the price or simply kick the can down the road, make a temporary repair and fix it when they fix it.

This money could have been spent at any time. If previous inspections showed there was a crack, why wasn't it fixed or even just patched?

This goes into "9/11 was an inside job" category....


ummmm.... not even close.

There are so many reasons why inspectors did not report the crack in the bridge. Maybe they were hung over? Maybe they were having side conversations? Maybe this is their second or third job? Maybe they were also on the budget committee? So many theories as to why the bridge was not repaired and none have anything at all to do with 9/11. I am just throwing it out there as someone who has to work too damn hard just to put a roof over my head because "trickle down" is so great and let the free market decide things like food and medical and education and housing so we masses can afford it all.

Could be any reason why this crack was not found the first time...
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
kalvado
Posts: 3205
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 26, 2021 9:22 am

seb146 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Did the inspector overlook the crack because of lack of training? One theory could be that the inspector knew how much money shutting the bridge and repairing the crack would be so he said nothing because both states would balk at the price or simply kick the can down the road, make a temporary repair and fix it when they fix it.

This money could have been spent at any time. If previous inspections showed there was a crack, why wasn't it fixed or even just patched?

This goes into "9/11 was an inside job" category....


ummmm.... not even close.

There are so many reasons why inspectors did not report the crack in the bridge. Maybe they were hung over? Maybe they were having side conversations? Maybe this is their second or third job? Maybe they were also on the budget committee? So many theories as to why the bridge was not repaired and none have anything at all to do with 9/11. I am just throwing it out there as someone who has to work too damn hard just to put a roof over my head because "trickle down" is so great and let the free market decide things like food and medical and education and housing so we masses can afford it all.

Could be any reason why this crack was not found the first time...

And covid vaccine contains 5G chips sponsored by Bill Gates, right?
You very firmly positioned yourself in that concept spectrum. Sorry to say that, but you are totally out of touch with reality. Not sure if there is much more to say..
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23877
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 26, 2021 6:07 pm

kalvado wrote:
seb146 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
This goes into "9/11 was an inside job" category....


ummmm.... not even close.

There are so many reasons why inspectors did not report the crack in the bridge. Maybe they were hung over? Maybe they were having side conversations? Maybe this is their second or third job? Maybe they were also on the budget committee? So many theories as to why the bridge was not repaired and none have anything at all to do with 9/11. I am just throwing it out there as someone who has to work too damn hard just to put a roof over my head because "trickle down" is so great and let the free market decide things like food and medical and education and housing so we masses can afford it all.

Could be any reason why this crack was not found the first time...

And covid vaccine contains 5G chips sponsored by Bill Gates, right?
You very firmly positioned yourself in that concept spectrum. Sorry to say that, but you are totally out of touch with reality. Not sure if there is much more to say..


All I am saying is the crack in the bridge had been overlooked before and I listed a few reasons as to why that may have been. Like maybe the inspector got distracted or the inspector had not gotten much sleep the night before and was not 100%. There are any number of legitimate reasons why the inspector missed the crack. I don't see how that lands in the conspiracy theory category.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
kalvado
Posts: 3205
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed May 26, 2021 6:23 pm

seb146 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
seb146 wrote:

ummmm.... not even close.

There are so many reasons why inspectors did not report the crack in the bridge. Maybe they were hung over? Maybe they were having side conversations? Maybe this is their second or third job? Maybe they were also on the budget committee? So many theories as to why the bridge was not repaired and none have anything at all to do with 9/11. I am just throwing it out there as someone who has to work too damn hard just to put a roof over my head because "trickle down" is so great and let the free market decide things like food and medical and education and housing so we masses can afford it all.

Could be any reason why this crack was not found the first time...

And covid vaccine contains 5G chips sponsored by Bill Gates, right?
You very firmly positioned yourself in that concept spectrum. Sorry to say that, but you are totally out of touch with reality. Not sure if there is much more to say..


All I am saying is the crack in the bridge had been overlooked before and I listed a few reasons as to why that may have been. Like maybe the inspector got distracted or the inspector had not gotten much sleep the night before and was not 100%. There are any number of legitimate reasons why the inspector missed the crack. I don't see how that lands in the conspiracy theory category.

And did so 5 times.
Before you go into "third job" story, we're talking about salaried employee making well above median household income - numbers are specifically for Arkansas.
How much that would be affected by more budget funding?
 
stratosphere
Posts: 2011
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:49 pm

seb146 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
seb146 wrote:

ummmm.... not even close.

There are so many reasons why inspectors did not report the crack in the bridge. Maybe they were hung over? Maybe they were having side conversations? Maybe this is their second or third job? Maybe they were also on the budget committee? So many theories as to why the bridge was not repaired and none have anything at all to do with 9/11. I am just throwing it out there as someone who has to work too damn hard just to put a roof over my head because "trickle down" is so great and let the free market decide things like food and medical and education and housing so we masses can afford it all.

Could be any reason why this crack was not found the first time...

And covid vaccine contains 5G chips sponsored by Bill Gates, right?
You very firmly positioned yourself in that concept spectrum. Sorry to say that, but you are totally out of touch with reality. Not sure if there is much more to say..


All I am saying is the crack in the bridge had been overlooked before and I listed a few reasons as to why that may have been. Like maybe the inspector got distracted or the inspector had not gotten much sleep the night before and was not 100%. There are any number of legitimate reasons why the inspector missed the crack. I don't see how that lands in the conspiracy theory category.


This is the problem this inspector missed this crack over several years there is drone footage from as far back as 2016 showing this crack. The issue is you cannot have the same inspector inspecting the same bridge over and over again because this is what you may get. Always a good idea to rotate inspectors and i really hope Arkansas has more than one inspector.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23877
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:39 am

stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:
kalvado wrote:
And covid vaccine contains 5G chips sponsored by Bill Gates, right?
You very firmly positioned yourself in that concept spectrum. Sorry to say that, but you are totally out of touch with reality. Not sure if there is much more to say..


All I am saying is the crack in the bridge had been overlooked before and I listed a few reasons as to why that may have been. Like maybe the inspector got distracted or the inspector had not gotten much sleep the night before and was not 100%. There are any number of legitimate reasons why the inspector missed the crack. I don't see how that lands in the conspiracy theory category.


This is the problem this inspector missed this crack over several years there is drone footage from as far back as 2016 showing this crack. The issue is you cannot have the same inspector inspecting the same bridge over and over again because this is what you may get. Always a good idea to rotate inspectors and i really hope Arkansas has more than one inspector.


So several inspectors missed the crack. But, blame the one guy. Someone needs to be held accountable so blame the one guy at the bottom. Again, someone needs to be held accountable. But, again, does it need to be the one guy at the bottom? Or should it be someone who also saw the crack and did nothing?

Maybe get a different inspection company and hold the previous company accountable? IIRC, Elaine Cho was Secretary of Transportation. Why was she not held accountable? Do you know how much in goods and services and cash would have been thrown away if this failed? But, yeah, blame one guy at the bottom.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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flyingclrs727
Posts: 2810
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Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:05 am

CaptHadley wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
The De Soto Bridge, which carries Interstate 40 across the Mississippi River between Memphis, Tennessee and West Memphis, Arkansas had been shut down for about a week after a Crack was found during an inspection. Barge traffic on the Mississippi River under the bridge has also been shut down and this combined with the shut down of truck traffic across the bridge could have a major impact on the US economy. A bridge inspector was also fired for failing to note a Crack about two years ago. Will be interesting to see the fallout from this.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html



Have you ever driven across that bridge? What do you think that would feel like knowing that bridge had a giant crack in it.


I have traveled across that bridge several times in the last 4 years. I'm sure the precursors of the visible cracks were active at that time. Considering the really high traffic on that bridge, perhaps it would be a good idea to build 2 bridges to spread the risk. It would make sense to build a bridge on I-240. The I-40 bridge is located where it was routed in the 1950's, but I-40 was never built through the middle of Memphis the way highway engineers intended. People on Memphis protested destroying neighborhoods in the 1960's to put a freeway through the city. Unsuspecting drivers end up being dumped into city street in Memphis to cross that bridge. It would make sense to reroute I-40 either to the north or south and cross the river away from downtown.
 
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Revelation
Posts: 26548
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:30 pm

Funny, I read the title quick and asked why it would be unusual for Memphis to have an issue with crack.

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
That infrastructure jobs program can’t come soon enough. Get with the program GOP. Developed countries should not have infrastructure falling apart.

Deferred maintenance and design flaws on infrastructure is nothing new in America. In 1983, a section of the Mianus River Bridge on Interstate 95 in Connecticut collapsed due to corrosion in the pin and hanger assembly that was caused by deferred maintenance. In 1967, a crack in an eyeball on the Silver Bridge between Ohio and West Virginia caused that Bridge to collapse. So, it was a good thing the bridge inspector on the DeSoto Bridge was fired.
http://blog.tstc.org/2008/06/27/remembe ... s-lessons/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/timeline.c ... 5404c4dffa

I'm not sure pointing out two disasters over 50+ years in the entire US is a great way of highlighting a problem.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
889091
Posts: 366
Joined: Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:56 pm

Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:03 pm

Revelation wrote:
Funny, I read the title quick and asked why it would be unusual for Memphis to have an issue with crack.


Haha! So it's not only me. I somehow had this picture in my head of a drug dealer spilling all his goods (crack cocaine) on the bridge and everyone else stopping to pick them up and hence shutting down the bridge! :rotfl:

Carry on!
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23877
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Important Bridge in Memphis Shut Down by Crack

Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:10 pm

Revelation wrote:
Funny, I read the title quick and asked why it would be unusual for Memphis to have an issue with crack.

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
That infrastructure jobs program can’t come soon enough. Get with the program GOP. Developed countries should not have infrastructure falling apart.

Deferred maintenance and design flaws on infrastructure is nothing new in America. In 1983, a section of the Mianus River Bridge on Interstate 95 in Connecticut collapsed due to corrosion in the pin and hanger assembly that was caused by deferred maintenance. In 1967, a crack in an eyeball on the Silver Bridge between Ohio and West Virginia caused that Bridge to collapse. So, it was a good thing the bridge inspector on the DeSoto Bridge was fired.
http://blog.tstc.org/2008/06/27/remembe ... s-lessons/
https://www.google.com/amp/s/timeline.c ... 5404c4dffa

I'm not sure pointing out two disasters over 50+ years in the entire US is a great way of highlighting a problem.


Just the fact that infrastructure is showing signs of wear to this degree is significant. And that one political party could have done something about it while they were in power is also significant.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!

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