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Aaron747
Posts: 16538
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:57 am

seb146 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Some people aren't familiar with that process, and don't care. They only want to feel good. Looking at history objectively requires a lot of nuance, and that means having to think, and that's just too much effort for the kind of people we're talking about.



it is a lot of effort to want to understand history, and that is why we have Historians.
Unfortunately we also have politicians, fox news, OAN, Newsmax, Right wing radio that make so much money. They prey on the weak minded, and then capitalize on the profits.

The legal system will have a field day working to undo this mess.


I was listening to some talk show the other day and the host mentioned that Rafael "Ted" Cruz went to law school at Harvard where he had to take a class on Critical Race Theory. There was a discussion about how CRT is not something that would be talked about or discussed in grade school or high school. Probably not even civics in junior college.

CRT is yet another attempt by the right to fake outrage over something. Like "cancel culture" or voting rights.


Yep, it's total nonsense. It's people with pride in things they weren't even a part of getting triggered over anyone teaching their kids that the past isn't all 100% rosy.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:30 pm

seb146 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Some people aren't familiar with that process, and don't care. They only want to feel good. Looking at history objectively requires a lot of nuance, and that means having to think, and that's just too much effort for the kind of people we're talking about.



it is a lot of effort to want to understand history, and that is why we have Historians.
Unfortunately we also have politicians, fox news, OAN, Newsmax, Right wing radio that make so much money. They prey on the weak minded, and then capitalize on the profits.

The legal system will have a field day working to undo this mess.


I was listening to some talk show the other day and the host mentioned that Rafael "Ted" Cruz went to law school at Harvard where he had to take a class on Critical Race Theory. There was a discussion about how CRT is not something that would be talked about or discussed in grade school or high school. Probably not even civics in junior college.

CRT is yet another attempt by the right to fake outrage over something. Like "cancel culture" or voting rights.

Florida going full Florida man:

State university faculty, students to be surveyed on beliefs
Gov. Ron DeSantis suggested that budget cuts could be looming if universities and colleges are found to be “indoctrinating” students.
https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-p ... viSHz-L_wU

Nothing says freedom of speech and 1st amendment rights like a government "survey of beliefs" threatened with defunding for the "wrong beliefs"
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 16538
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:25 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


it is a lot of effort to want to understand history, and that is why we have Historians.
Unfortunately we also have politicians, fox news, OAN, Newsmax, Right wing radio that make so much money. They prey on the weak minded, and then capitalize on the profits.

The legal system will have a field day working to undo this mess.


I was listening to some talk show the other day and the host mentioned that Rafael "Ted" Cruz went to law school at Harvard where he had to take a class on Critical Race Theory. There was a discussion about how CRT is not something that would be talked about or discussed in grade school or high school. Probably not even civics in junior college.

CRT is yet another attempt by the right to fake outrage over something. Like "cancel culture" or voting rights.

Florida going full Florida man:

State university faculty, students to be surveyed on beliefs
Gov. Ron DeSantis suggested that budget cuts could be looming if universities and colleges are found to be “indoctrinating” students.
https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-p ... viSHz-L_wU

Nothing says freedom of speech and 1st amendment rights like a government "survey of beliefs" threatened with defunding for the "wrong beliefs"


They're just going deeper and deeper into the well....it's beyond insane how dedicated they are to chasing the tail of things they claim to be against.
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:33 am

Aaron747 wrote:
In a related matter, General Milley, JCS chairman, gave an impassioned defense today of why it’s important to learn about our country. He was slapping down Rep. Gaetz a bit, but he obviously thinks criticism of ‘wokeness’ is ignorant and misguided.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/06/23/ ... rsity/amp/

https://www.axios.com/gen-milley-milita ... 8038e.html


Great rebuttal by General Milley. He embarrased Gaetz actually.

MaverickM11 wrote:
Florida going full Florida man:

State university faculty, students to be surveyed on beliefs
Gov. Ron DeSantis suggested that budget cuts could be looming if universities and colleges are found to be “indoctrinating” students.
https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-p ... viSHz-L_wU

Nothing says freedom of speech and 1st amendment rights like a government "survey of beliefs" threatened with defunding for the "wrong beliefs"


Gov. DeSantis sure has been busy signing away these nonsense legislations as of late with his "Hand of God." He must really want that VP nomination for 2024. On that note of potential 1st amendment violations, who will be the first to contest all these recent legislations?
 
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CitizenJustin
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:12 am

Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:51 pm

Newark727 wrote:
Fair correction. But I don't get the sense that most of the people talking about it right now really care about that. To the commentators on the right it's just another set of scary words that are supposed to signal to people "dangerous ideas are being implanted in your children! White people are being cancelled!"



It must be exhausting living in fear all the time. The right is in a constant state of panic and outrage. They’re terrified of an increasingly modern, diverse and complex world that they fail to grasp.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 14171
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:34 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


it is a lot of effort to want to understand history, and that is why we have Historians.
Unfortunately we also have politicians, fox news, OAN, Newsmax, Right wing radio that make so much money. They prey on the weak minded, and then capitalize on the profits.

The legal system will have a field day working to undo this mess.


I was listening to some talk show the other day and the host mentioned that Rafael "Ted" Cruz went to law school at Harvard where he had to take a class on Critical Race Theory. There was a discussion about how CRT is not something that would be talked about or discussed in grade school or high school. Probably not even civics in junior college.

CRT is yet another attempt by the right to fake outrage over something. Like "cancel culture" or voting rights.

Florida going full Florida man:

State university faculty, students to be surveyed on beliefs
Gov. Ron DeSantis suggested that budget cuts could be looming if universities and colleges are found to be “indoctrinating” students.
https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-p ... viSHz-L_wU

Nothing says freedom of speech and 1st amendment rights like a government "survey of beliefs" threatened with defunding for the "wrong beliefs"



Well, the GOP is now a cult. We should expect more of this "Papers Please" mentality out of the far right fascists that they have elected. The GOP members claim to be for freedom, but they are electing people that will remove freedom and education.
 
WrldTravlr65
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon May 13, 2019 12:14 am

Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:41 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Fair correction. But I don't get the sense that most of the people talking about it right now really care about that. To the commentators on the right it's just another set of scary words that are supposed to signal to people "dangerous ideas are being implanted in your children! White people are being cancelled!"



It must be exhausting living in fear all the time. The right is in a constant state of panic and outrage. They’re terrified of an increasingly modern, diverse and complex world that they fail to grasp.


Panic, no.

This has nothing to do with being terrified of an "increasingly modern, diverse, and complex world." As cute as that sounds.

Outrage, yes.

From all of the dramatics, wokeisms, and cancel culture nonsense that is being foisted on this country from the left. It has become so ridiculous, in fact, that I have friends on both sides of the aisle who are done with it. My liberal friends were even starting to say, "enough is enough" when trees in Oregon were being called racist, and showing your work on math problems was a sign of white supremacy, or some stupid thing.

I think the best thing conservatives can do is continue to speak up against the nonsense but don't make any moves with regard to school policy on how things get taught by making it seem like they're minimizing slavery and racism as it has reared its head in this country. That is ridiculous.

Just let it rest; let the liberals continue to drop the anvils on their own feet because they truly are making themselves look ridiculous.

I truly believe that most Americans will be smart enough to see it for what it is. There will certainly be those who are sadly manipulated by the dramatics, but it's mainly a bunch of privileged white liberals and a media that narrates their ideologies that have proven themselves completely over the top who are behind it.

The best thing conservatives can do is instead of trying to overreact to it is just let it run its course. Let the liberals sink their own ship as we go into the midterms rather than giving them ammunition to deflect with.

The fact is, the liberal leaders can play down the increase in violence in liberal cities all they want by playing that childish card of 'Oh, look at these silly Republicans, panicking over this supposed escalation in violence in our cities.' They can ignore the fact by either not reporting that it is happening in the first place, or playing it down. It doesn't change the reality though. Liberals need to be trying to figure out how to change decades of decay in these cities they run, and the plight of black citizens living in those cities they've created, rather than worrying about all the wokeisms and cancel culture and what the other side of the aisle is doing. There is way too much to clean up on your side of the aisle.

And for those who continue with the Republican "panic" nonsense, I happen to live in CA where two of the most liberal cities in our country lie. LA and SF. And I have visited both of them in the past year. And they are literal and figurative toilets. Nothing being made up here for dramatics sake. I have relatives in NYC who say it's worse now than it was last time I visited them. And they're actually center/left.

As to this topic at hand though, no one will deny that slavery is a horrible part of our past, but slavery doesn't exist anymore.

Does racism exist? Yes there are racists in every part of this world. It doesn't make an entire country or group of people racists though.

It would seem this narrative went into overdrive with some incidents over the past year where a black person lost their lives at the hands of LEOs. Yet what isn't reported is that many, many, many more white people have also lost their lives at the hands of LEOs. The reporting has been selective to support a narrative that certain groups want to push. The pandemic was already bad enough, but getting people riled up with other narratives during, hmmm, an election year was especially provocative, wasn't it? Even though all the truths were never fully provided. Because reality would go against the narrative they were trying to push.

Recent decades have proven that in this country, even despite white privileged liberal attempts at telling black citizens that because of the color of their skin they won't be able to amount to much because white people will always be there to stand in their way so they must be taken care of by Democrats, blacks have still become President, Vice President, generals, mayors, congressmen and women, attorney generals, secretaries of state, police officers, attorneys, college professors, teachers, doctors. You name it. And they have been succeeding in many of these fields for a very long time.

You can keep throwing the dramatics and finger pointing at conservatives all you want, but in the end it is liberals who really need to be answering to black citizens who they have treated like children, just to get their vote. And trying to reinvent slavery in 2021 when it's the liberals who are treating blacks like they're not capable enough to take care of themselves through their messaging seems a little odd, doesn't it? Sounds like the 1800s south. And the fact they are doing it just to get their vote is reprehensible.

No. It's not panic. It's outrage. That a group of people that fall under an official political party in this country continue to mislead a group of Americans, keeping them from becoming what they truly can become. Watch Morgan Freeman's interview with Don Lemon some 6 or 7 years ago. He nails it.

And the increasing number of actual black conservatives are nailing it in their own way too.

These trite little deflections by liberals to minimize the message of conservatives is, well, cute. But they're never anything more than just fluff with nothing to back it up. Except dramatics and cute little talking points. Never reality. As long as it works though. As long as it keeps voters from seeing the reality and continuing to vote Democrat, it's all good. Right? No matter the consequences.

And while we're at it, gotta love how liberals mock conservative comments on Marxism, socialism and communism as being some knee-jerk, panicked reaction that is overblown.

No. We're just looking at the large number of immigrants who fled countries where those philosophies exist, and we listen to their stories. And we put more stock in what they have to say, having experienced it, than what a bunch of privileged white liberals, who for some reason find those words sexy, say.

But again, it's just another sign of being out of touch with reality. Such things sound sexy to you because you don't live them. You live a life of privilege here in the USA. And feel guilty for it. So trying to decry it by tossing those words around makes you somehow feel better about yourself and seem oh so progressive.

Nope. Listen to the stories of these immigrants and it just shows you're out of touch. Plain and simple.
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 16538
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:03 pm

WrldTravlr65 wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Fair correction. But I don't get the sense that most of the people talking about it right now really care about that. To the commentators on the right it's just another set of scary words that are supposed to signal to people "dangerous ideas are being implanted in your children! White people are being cancelled!"



It must be exhausting living in fear all the time. The right is in a constant state of panic and outrage. They’re terrified of an increasingly modern, diverse and complex world that they fail to grasp.


Panic, no.

This has nothing to do with being terrified of an "increasingly modern, diverse, and complex world." As cute as that sounds.

Outrage, yes.

From all of the dramatics, wokeisms, and cancel culture nonsense that is being foisted on this country from the left. It has become so ridiculous, in fact, that I have friends on both sides of the aisle who are done with it. My liberal friends were even starting to say, "enough is enough" when trees in Oregon were being called racist, and showing your work on math problems was a sign of white supremacy, or some stupid thing.

I think the best thing conservatives can do is continue to speak up against the nonsense but don't make any moves with regard to school policy on how things get taught by making it seem like they're minimizing slavery and racism as it has reared its head in this country. That is ridiculous.

Just let it rest; let the liberals continue to drop the anvils on their own feet because they truly are making themselves look ridiculous.

I truly believe that most Americans will be smart enough to see it for what it is. There will certainly be those who are sadly manipulated by the dramatics, but it's mainly a bunch of privileged white liberals and a media that narrates their ideologies that have proven themselves completely over the top who are behind it.

The best thing conservatives can do is instead of trying to overreact to it is just let it run its course. Let the liberals sink their own ship as we go into the midterms rather than giving them ammunition to deflect with.

The fact is, the liberal leaders can play down the increase in violence in liberal cities all they want by playing that childish card of 'Oh, look at these silly Republicans, panicking over this supposed escalation in violence in our cities.' They can ignore the fact by either not reporting that it is happening in the first place, or playing it down. It doesn't change the reality though. Liberals need to be trying to figure out how to change decades of decay in these cities they run, and the plight of black citizens living in those cities they've created, rather than worrying about all the wokeisms and cancel culture and what the other side of the aisle is doing. There is way too much to clean up on your side of the aisle.

And for those who continue with the Republican "panic" nonsense, I happen to live in CA where two of the most liberal cities in our country lie. LA and SF. And I have visited both of them in the past year. And they are literal and figurative toilets. Nothing being made up here for dramatics sake. I have relatives in NYC who say it's worse now than it was last time I visited them. And they're actually center/left.

As to this topic at hand though, no one will deny that slavery is a horrible part of our past, but slavery doesn't exist anymore.

Does racism exist? Yes there are racists in every part of this world. It doesn't make an entire country or group of people racists though.

It would seem this narrative went into overdrive with some incidents over the past year where a black person lost their lives at the hands of LEOs. Yet what isn't reported is that many, many, many more white people have also lost their lives at the hands of LEOs. The reporting has been selective to support a narrative that certain groups want to push. The pandemic was already bad enough, but getting people riled up with other narratives during, hmmm, an election year was especially provocative, wasn't it? Even though all the truths were never fully provided. Because reality would go against the narrative they were trying to push.

Recent decades have proven that in this country, even despite white privileged liberal attempts at telling black citizens that because of the color of their skin they won't be able to amount to much because white people will always be there to stand in their way so they must be taken care of by Democrats, blacks have still become President, Vice President, generals, mayors, congressmen and women, attorney generals, secretaries of state, police officers, attorneys, college professors, teachers, doctors. You name it. And they have been succeeding in many of these fields for a very long time.

You can keep throwing the dramatics and finger pointing at conservatives all you want, but in the end it is liberals who really need to be answering to black citizens who they have treated like children, just to get their vote. And trying to reinvent slavery in 2021 when it's the liberals who are treating blacks like they're not capable enough to take care of themselves through their messaging seems a little odd, doesn't it? Sounds like the 1800s south. And the fact they are doing it just to get their vote is reprehensible.

No. It's not panic. It's outrage. That a group of people that fall under an official political party in this country continue to mislead a group of Americans, keeping them from becoming what they truly can become. Watch Morgan Freeman's interview with Don Lemon some 6 or 7 years ago. He nails it.

And the increasing number of actual black conservatives are nailing it in their own way too.

These trite little deflections by liberals to minimize the message of conservatives is, well, cute. But they're never anything more than just fluff with nothing to back it up. Except dramatics and cute little talking points. Never reality. As long as it works though. As long as it keeps voters from seeing the reality and continuing to vote Democrat, it's all good. Right? No matter the consequences.

And while we're at it, gotta love how liberals mock conservative comments on Marxism, socialism and communism as being some knee-jerk, panicked reaction that is overblown.

No. We're just looking at the large number of immigrants who fled countries where those philosophies exist, and we listen to their stories. And we put more stock in what they have to say, having experienced it, than what a bunch of privileged white liberals, who for some reason find those words sexy, say.

But again, it's just another sign of being out of touch with reality. Such things sound sexy to you because you don't live them. You live a life of privilege here in the USA. And feel guilty for it. So trying to decry it by tossing those words around makes you somehow feel better about yourself and seem oh so progressive.

Nope. Listen to the stories of these immigrants and it just shows you're out of touch. Plain and simple.


Nobody serious has made the argument ‘the entire country or group of people’ is racist. If that’s your takeaway from so-called wokeism, you were never listening to begin with.

The ‘life of privilege’ you speak of comes with a responsibility to ensure every citizen starts out with a shot at all the opportunity we have here. We are still struggling as a nation to make that a reality, and I applaud the folks still working to bring it to fruition.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 5147
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:03 am

There is nothing stopping white folks, nor Texans, nor Republican, nor Southern Baptists scholars nor anyone else willing to write and publish on CRT. In fact it should be welcomed. What could stop them is a willingness to be truthful and document what they have to say. We would all benefit from a proper discussion on the topic.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 14853
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:27 am

Well there would need to be brains in that camp, intellectuals, scholars. In the specific camp that doesn't believe there is racism in the US I mean, not among white folks or even republicans, although I'm not sure for the latter.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 14171
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:26 am

WrldTravlr65 wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Fair correction. But I don't get the sense that most of the people talking about it right now really care about that. To the commentators on the right it's just another set of scary words that are supposed to signal to people "dangerous ideas are being implanted in your children! White people are being cancelled!"



It must be exhausting living in fear all the time. The right is in a constant state of panic and outrage. They’re terrified of an increasingly modern, diverse and complex world that they fail to grasp.


Panic, no.

This has nothing to do with being terrified of an "increasingly modern, diverse, and complex world." As cute as that sounds.

Outrage, yes.

From all of the dramatics, wokeisms, and cancel culture nonsense that is being foisted on this country from the left. It has become so ridiculous, in fact, that I have friends on both sides of the aisle who are done with it. My liberal friends were even starting to say, "enough is enough" when trees in Oregon were being called racist, and showing your work on math problems was a sign of white supremacy, or some stupid thing.

I think the best thing conservatives can do is continue to speak up against the nonsense but don't make any moves with regard to school policy on how things get taught by making it seem like they're minimizing slavery and racism as it has reared its head in this country. That is ridiculous.

Just let it rest; let the liberals continue to drop the anvils on their own feet because they truly are making themselves look ridiculous.

I truly believe that most Americans will be smart enough to see it for what it is. There will certainly be those who are sadly manipulated by the dramatics, but it's mainly a bunch of privileged white liberals and a media that narrates their ideologies that have proven themselves completely over the top who are behind it.

The best thing conservatives can do is instead of trying to overreact to it is just let it run its course. Let the liberals sink their own ship as we go into the midterms rather than giving them ammunition to deflect with.

The fact is, the liberal leaders can play down the increase in violence in liberal cities all they want by playing that childish card of 'Oh, look at these silly Republicans, panicking over this supposed escalation in violence in our cities.' They can ignore the fact by either not reporting that it is happening in the first place, or playing it down. It doesn't change the reality though. Liberals need to be trying to figure out how to change decades of decay in these cities they run, and the plight of black citizens living in those cities they've created, rather than worrying about all the wokeisms and cancel culture and what the other side of the aisle is doing. There is way too much to clean up on your side of the aisle.

And for those who continue with the Republican "panic" nonsense, I happen to live in CA where two of the most liberal cities in our country lie. LA and SF. And I have visited both of them in the past year. And they are literal and figurative toilets. Nothing being made up here for dramatics sake. I have relatives in NYC who say it's worse now than it was last time I visited them. And they're actually center/left.

As to this topic at hand though, no one will deny that slavery is a horrible part of our past, but slavery doesn't exist anymore.

Does racism exist? Yes there are racists in every part of this world. It doesn't make an entire country or group of people racists though.

It would seem this narrative went into overdrive with some incidents over the past year where a black person lost their lives at the hands of LEOs. Yet what isn't reported is that many, many, many more white people have also lost their lives at the hands of LEOs. The reporting has been selective to support a narrative that certain groups want to push. The pandemic was already bad enough, but getting people riled up with other narratives during, hmmm, an election year was especially provocative, wasn't it? Even though all the truths were never fully provided. Because reality would go against the narrative they were trying to push.

Recent decades have proven that in this country, even despite white privileged liberal attempts at telling black citizens that because of the color of their skin they won't be able to amount to much because white people will always be there to stand in their way so they must be taken care of by Democrats, blacks have still become President, Vice President, generals, mayors, congressmen and women, attorney generals, secretaries of state, police officers, attorneys, college professors, teachers, doctors. You name it. And they have been succeeding in many of these fields for a very long time.

You can keep throwing the dramatics and finger pointing at conservatives all you want, but in the end it is liberals who really need to be answering to black citizens who they have treated like children, just to get their vote. And trying to reinvent slavery in 2021 when it's the liberals who are treating blacks like they're not capable enough to take care of themselves through their messaging seems a little odd, doesn't it? Sounds like the 1800s south. And the fact they are doing it just to get their vote is reprehensible.

No. It's not panic. It's outrage. That a group of people that fall under an official political party in this country continue to mislead a group of Americans, keeping them from becoming what they truly can become. Watch Morgan Freeman's interview with Don Lemon some 6 or 7 years ago. He nails it.

And the increasing number of actual black conservatives are nailing it in their own way too.

These trite little deflections by liberals to minimize the message of conservatives is, well, cute. But they're never anything more than just fluff with nothing to back it up. Except dramatics and cute little talking points. Never reality. As long as it works though. As long as it keeps voters from seeing the reality and continuing to vote Democrat, it's all good. Right? No matter the consequences.

And while we're at it, gotta love how liberals mock conservative comments on Marxism, socialism and communism as being some knee-jerk, panicked reaction that is overblown.

No. We're just looking at the large number of immigrants who fled countries where those philosophies exist, and we listen to their stories. And we put more stock in what they have to say, having experienced it, than what a bunch of privileged white liberals, who for some reason find those words sexy, say.

But again, it's just another sign of being out of touch with reality. Such things sound sexy to you because you don't live them. You live a life of privilege here in the USA. And feel guilty for it. So trying to decry it by tossing those words around makes you somehow feel better about yourself and seem oh so progressive.

Nope. Listen to the stories of these immigrants and it just shows you're out of touch. Plain and simple.


This is out of touch with what Critical Race Theory is all about. Rather this sounds like Right wing lies used to push actual discussion of racism out of the public eye.

Would you believe that over 90% of the people that voted for CRT bans are white? That pretty much nails what CRT is really discussing.
The folks that continue to push this CRT ban narrative are just present day racists, or so severely unaware of their surroundings that they pass on lies without fact checking the poisoned well at the source.
 
User avatar
CitizenJustin
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:12 am

Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:34 am

WrldTravlr65 wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Fair correction. But I don't get the sense that most of the people talking about it right now really care about that. To the commentators on the right it's just another set of scary words that are supposed to signal to people "dangerous ideas are being implanted in your children! White people are being cancelled!"



It must be exhausting living in fear all the time. The right is in a constant state of panic and outrage. They’re terrified of an increasingly modern, diverse and complex world that they fail to grasp.


Panic, no.

This has nothing to do with being terrified of an "increasingly modern, diverse, and complex world." As cute as that sounds.

Outrage, yes.

From all of the dramatics, wokeisms, and cancel culture nonsense that is being foisted on this country from the left. It has become so ridiculous, in fact, that I have friends on both sides of the aisle who are done with it. My liberal friends were even starting to say, "enough is enough" when trees in Oregon were being called racist, and showing your work on math problems was a sign of white supremacy, or some stupid thing.

I think the best thing conservatives can do is continue to speak up against the nonsense but don't make any moves with regard to school policy on how things get taught by making it seem like they're minimizing slavery and racism as it has reared its head in this country. That is ridiculous.

Just let it rest; let the liberals continue to drop the anvils on their own feet because they truly are making themselves look ridiculous.

I truly believe that most Americans will be smart enough to see it for what it is. There will certainly be those who are sadly manipulated by the dramatics, but it's mainly a bunch of privileged white liberals and a media that narrates their ideologies that have proven themselves completely over the top who are behind it.

The best thing conservatives can do is instead of trying to overreact to it is just let it run its course. Let the liberals sink their own ship as we go into the midterms rather than giving them ammunition to deflect with.

The fact is, the liberal leaders can play down the increase in violence in liberal cities all they want by playing that childish card of 'Oh, look at these silly Republicans, panicking over this supposed escalation in violence in our cities.' They can ignore the fact by either not reporting that it is happening in the first place, or playing it down. It doesn't change the reality though. Liberals need to be trying to figure out how to change decades of decay in these cities they run, and the plight of black citizens living in those cities they've created, rather than worrying about all the wokeisms and cancel culture and what the other side of the aisle is doing. There is way too much to clean up on your side of the aisle.

And for those who continue with the Republican "panic" nonsense, I happen to live in CA where two of the most liberal cities in our country lie. LA and SF. And I have visited both of them in the past year. And they are literal and figurative toilets. Nothing being made up here for dramatics sake. I have relatives in NYC who say it's worse now than it was last time I visited them. And they're actually center/left.

As to this topic at hand though, no one will deny that slavery is a horrible part of our past, but slavery doesn't exist anymore.

Does racism exist? Yes there are racists in every part of this world. It doesn't make an entire country or group of people racists though.

It would seem this narrative went into overdrive with some incidents over the past year where a black person lost their lives at the hands of LEOs. Yet what isn't reported is that many, many, many more white people have also lost their lives at the hands of LEOs. The reporting has been selective to support a narrative that certain groups want to push. The pandemic was already bad enough, but getting people riled up with other narratives during, hmmm, an election year was especially provocative, wasn't it? Even though all the truths were never fully provided. Because reality would go against the narrative they were trying to push.

Recent decades have proven that in this country, even despite white privileged liberal attempts at telling black citizens that because of the color of their skin they won't be able to amount to much because white people will always be there to stand in their way so they must be taken care of by Democrats, blacks have still become President, Vice President, generals, mayors, congressmen and women, attorney generals, secretaries of state, police officers, attorneys, college professors, teachers, doctors. You name it. And they have been succeeding in many of these fields for a very long time.

You can keep throwing the dramatics and finger pointing at conservatives all you want, but in the end it is liberals who really need to be answering to black citizens who they have treated like children, just to get their vote. And trying to reinvent slavery in 2021 when it's the liberals who are treating blacks like they're not capable enough to take care of themselves through their messaging seems a little odd, doesn't it? Sounds like the 1800s south. And the fact they are doing it just to get their vote is reprehensible.

No. It's not panic. It's outrage. That a group of people that fall under an official political party in this country continue to mislead a group of Americans, keeping them from becoming what they truly can become. Watch Morgan Freeman's interview with Don Lemon some 6 or 7 years ago. He nails it.

And the increasing number of actual black conservatives are nailing it in their own way too.

These trite little deflections by liberals to minimize the message of conservatives is, well, cute. But they're never anything more than just fluff with nothing to back it up. Except dramatics and cute little talking points. Never reality. As long as it works though. As long as it keeps voters from seeing the reality and continuing to vote Democrat, it's all good. Right? No matter the consequences.

And while we're at it, gotta love how liberals mock conservative comments on Marxism, socialism and communism as being some knee-jerk, panicked reaction that is overblown.

No. We're just looking at the large number of immigrants who fled countries where those philosophies exist, and we listen to their stories. And we put more stock in what they have to say, having experienced it, than what a bunch of privileged white liberals, who for some reason find those words sexy, say.

But again, it's just another sign of being out of touch with reality. Such things sound sexy to you because you don't live them. You live a life of privilege here in the USA. And feel guilty for it. So trying to decry it by tossing those words around makes you somehow feel better about yourself and seem oh so progressive.

Nope. Listen to the stories of these immigrants and it just shows you're out of touch. Plain and simple.



I disagree.

A bunch of plebeians who miss the good ol’ days and fail to grasp a changing world isn’t unusual. A writer for the New Yorker in the 30’s said the youth of the day was lazy, disrespectful towards tradition and too busy day dreaming. Of course that generation of lazy kids went on to fight in WWII. I can actually list dozens of examples going back thousands of years of adults whining about a changing world that they have no control over. A world that’s leaving their primitive, often ridiculous views behind. What you’re saying now is nothing new. The words may be different but it’s the same thing. You are that writer from the New Yorker complaining about the youth and their way of thinking. You are that philosopher 2000 years ago who said children no longer wish to learn and disobey their parents. It’s a human tradition to complain about the present and romanticize the past and that’s literally all you’re doing. There’s nothing of any substance here.

So your liberal friends agree with you? Then they’ve been had by the right wing propaganda machine as well. You’re failing to view this from a historical standpoint. Absolutely none of this is new, but I will say that historical hindsight proves that liberalism always wins the in the end. You’ve chosen a few radical talking points that no one takes seriously, but you believe they do because the right gets all worked up and scares people into thinking the apocalypse is upon us. Sit down and take a breath. You can either live peacefully with change of be cranky wishing for a past that never existed in the first place.

If you think being intolerant of intolerance is a bad thing and that being woke is somehow worse than a political party that’s drowning in conspiracy theories and attempting to alter and revise our accumulative human knowledge, well, I hope you can find your way out of the rabbit hole.n
 
LCDFlight
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Wed Jul 07, 2021 4:14 am

I am a centrist and I reject the violent, bigoted devils on the right. And I reject the violent, bigoted devils on the left.

The political spectrum isn't a line (from extreme left to extreme right); it is a circular ring. Extreme left and extreme right are exactly the same thing - mob dictatorship by animals. At the other end, people are civilized, patient, law abiding and open-minded.

Image
 
afcjets
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:32 am

seb146 wrote:
CRT is yet another attempt by the right to fake outrage over something. Like "cancel culture" or voting rights.


The right didn't make up CRT. I would be more outraged as a black parent if my kid was taught they're a victim than I would as a white parent that my child has something to apologize for.
 
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:42 am

afcjets wrote:
seb146 wrote:
CRT is yet another attempt by the right to fake outrage over something. Like "cancel culture" or voting rights.


The right didn't make up CRT. I would be more outraged as a black parent if my kid was taught they're a victim than I would as a white parent that my child has something to apologize for.


Parents would have cause for outrage if that is what's taught, but that's not what CRT is. CRT is a critique of the legal system and how it is modified by liberalism. It's part of a larger discussion about how change actually occurs and what motivates it. Oh well.
 
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:33 am

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
seb146 wrote:
CRT is yet another attempt by the right to fake outrage over something. Like "cancel culture" or voting rights.


The right didn't make up CRT. I would be more outraged as a black parent if my kid was taught they're a victim than I would as a white parent that my child has something to apologize for.


Parents would have cause for outrage if that is what's taught, but that's not what CRT is. CRT is a critique of the legal system and how it is modified by liberalism. It's part of a larger discussion about how change actually occurs and what motivates it. Oh well.


CRT is more than a legal theory, at least now. It is being applied across literature, history, linguistics, politics. And has been for a long time. It’s a valid way to look at things, among many other valid ways. But CRT is being elevated by organizers and educators to say that history, English and civics curriculum should be rewritten again, now with racial oppression at the center of every topic. Science curriculum, likewise is seeing a rewrite. Medical schools are facing pressure to rewrite.

This has some validity, as I said. But we could also examine everything through a prism of sexuality, or ecology. Or psychology. Or class struggle (see Mao era schooling, if schools were even open), or even religious beliefs (long story there too).
 
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:06 am

LCDFlight wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

The right didn't make up CRT. I would be more outraged as a black parent if my kid was taught they're a victim than I would as a white parent that my child has something to apologize for.


Parents would have cause for outrage if that is what's taught, but that's not what CRT is. CRT is a critique of the legal system and how it is modified by liberalism. It's part of a larger discussion about how change actually occurs and what motivates it. Oh well.


CRT is more than a legal theory, at least now. It is being applied across literature, history, linguistics, politics. And has been for a long time. It’s a valid way to look at things, among many other valid ways. But CRT is being elevated by organizers and educators to say that history, English and civics curriculum should be rewritten again, now with racial oppression at the center of every topic. Science curriculum, likewise is seeing a rewrite. Medical schools are facing pressure to rewrite.

This has some validity, as I said. But we could also examine everything through a prism of sexuality, or ecology. Or psychology. Or class struggle (see Mao era schooling, if schools were even open), or even religious beliefs (long story there too).


My sense is that’s happening not out of genuine interest in social change but because of how academia polices itself. CRT’s voice got louder as mainstream academia rejected its precepts - once that reached a certain level of criticism and backlash, the mainstream had to allow bits in to maintain its own reputation for being open to ideas. This encroachment has limits because CRT is fundamentally about empirical analysis through storytelling, whereas mainstream academia values data-based research above all else.
 
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:02 am

Aaron747 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Parents would have cause for outrage if that is what's taught
CRT is being elevated by organizers and educators to say that history, English and civics curriculum should be rewritten again, now with racial oppression at the center of every topic.
My sense is that’s happening not out of genuine interest in social change but because of how academia polices itself.


I am glad you see why parents are outraged.
 
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:40 am

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
CRT is being elevated by organizers and educators to say that history, English and civics curriculum should be rewritten again, now with racial oppression at the center of every topic.
My sense is that’s happening not out of genuine interest in social change but because of how academia polices itself.


I am glad you see why parents are outraged.


If parents are outraged by a social theory (amongst many), the problem is them, not the theory. A major purpose of academia is to contrast ideas and debate, i.e. learn to think critically and analyze.

It's especially their problem when they believe what any talking head on TV claims that theory is about when that pundit doesn't actually know shit from shinola. You should also find it disturbing that a 30-year disagreement between sociologists and legal historians is being used as a cudgel by right wing media and zombie members of Congress to whip people into a frenzy over nothing they understand.
 
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Wed Jul 07, 2021 1:07 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
My sense is that’s happening not out of genuine interest in social change but because of how academia polices itself.


I am glad you see why parents are outraged.


If parents are outraged by a social theory (amongst many), the problem is them, not the theory. A major purpose of academia is to contrast ideas and debate, i.e. learn to think critically and analyze.

It's especially their problem when they believe what any talking head on TV claims that theory is about when that pundit doesn't actually know shit from shinola. You should also find it disturbing that a 30-year disagreement between sociologists and legal historians is being used as a cudgel by right wing media and zombie members of Congress to whip people into a frenzy over nothing they understand.



you can't argue with a mob that is unreasonable. So much of this hate of CRT is being driven by right wing media and tucker Carlson. (Remember even the right wing lawyers at Fox have argued in court that only unreasonable people would listen and believe things Carlson says).

Remember Carlson? The same fool that a week ago was arguing over people spying on him, now wants to put big brother in every classroom.
https://news.yahoo.com/tucker-carlson-c ... 23182.html
"We can't really be sure until we finally get cameras in the classroom, as we put them on the chests of police officers, until we finally get a civilian review board in every town in America to oversee the people teaching your children, forming their minds. And let's hope we get both of those very soon. But until we do, we can't know exactly how widespread this is."


This stuff is straight up paranoia by a coward and a fraud.
 
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seb146
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:45 pm

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
CRT is being elevated by organizers and educators to say that history, English and civics curriculum should be rewritten again, now with racial oppression at the center of every topic.
My sense is that’s happening not out of genuine interest in social change but because of how academia polices itself.


I am glad you see why parents are outraged.


Not all parents are outraged. I think we need to figure out what CRT is in the first place. Many people do not know.

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what- ... ck/2021/05
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... ce-theory/
 
LCDFlight
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Wed Jul 07, 2021 2:56 pm

seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
My sense is that’s happening not out of genuine interest in social change but because of how academia polices itself.


I am glad you see why parents are outraged.


Not all parents are outraged. I think we need to figure out what CRT is in the first place. Many people do not know.

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what- ... ck/2021/05
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... ce-theory/


Thanks, those are good sources, but their opinions are debatable.
some website wrote:
"Opponents fear that CRT admonishes all white people for being oppressors while classifying all Black people as hopelessly oppressed victims. These fears have spurred school boards and state legislatures from Tennessee to Idaho to ban teachings about racism in classrooms. However, there is a fundamental problem: these narratives about CRT are gross exaggerations of the theoretical framework. The broad brush that is being applied to CRT is puzzling to academics, including some of the scholars who coined and advanced the framework.

CRT does not attribute racism to white people as individuals or even to entire groups of people. Simply put, critical race theory states that U.S. social institutions (e.g., the criminal justice system, education system, labor market, housing market, and healthcare system) are laced with racism embedded in laws, regulations, rules, and procedures that lead to differential outcomes by race. Sociologists and other scholars have long noted that racism can exist without racists. However, many Americans are not able to separate their individual identity as an American from the social institutions that govern us—these people perceive themselves as the system. Consequently, they interpret calling social institutions racist as calling them racist personally. It speaks to how normative racial ideology is to American identity that some people just cannot separate the two. There are also people who may recognize America’s racist past but have bought into the false narrative that the U.S. is now an equitable democracy. They are simply unwilling to remove the blind spot obscuring the fact that America is still not great for everyone.

Scholars and activists who discuss CRT are not arguing that white people living now are to blame for what people did in the past. They are saying that white people living now have a moral responsibility to do something about how racism still impacts all of our lives today."


1. To call the first point a "gross exaggeration" is unfair. That's, instead, being debated.

2. True. The remedy being calibrated to address "systemic racism" (which does not imply any individual is racist) amount to race-centric government interventions, until "equity" is reached. An eye for an eye. These remedies are illegal.

3. Here, they just come right out and admit it. People have different "responsibility" according to skin color. That's an view with a very, very troubling history.
 
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seb146
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Wed Jul 07, 2021 3:15 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

I am glad you see why parents are outraged.


Not all parents are outraged. I think we need to figure out what CRT is in the first place. Many people do not know.

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what- ... ck/2021/05
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... ce-theory/


Thanks, those are good sources, but their opinions are debatable.
some website wrote:
"Opponents fear that CRT admonishes all white people for being oppressors while classifying all Black people as hopelessly oppressed victims. These fears have spurred school boards and state legislatures from Tennessee to Idaho to ban teachings about racism in classrooms. However, there is a fundamental problem: these narratives about CRT are gross exaggerations of the theoretical framework. The broad brush that is being applied to CRT is puzzling to academics, including some of the scholars who coined and advanced the framework.

CRT does not attribute racism to white people as individuals or even to entire groups of people. Simply put, critical race theory states that U.S. social institutions (e.g., the criminal justice system, education system, labor market, housing market, and healthcare system) are laced with racism embedded in laws, regulations, rules, and procedures that lead to differential outcomes by race. Sociologists and other scholars have long noted that racism can exist without racists. However, many Americans are not able to separate their individual identity as an American from the social institutions that govern us—these people perceive themselves as the system. Consequently, they interpret calling social institutions racist as calling them racist personally. It speaks to how normative racial ideology is to American identity that some people just cannot separate the two. There are also people who may recognize America’s racist past but have bought into the false narrative that the U.S. is now an equitable democracy. They are simply unwilling to remove the blind spot obscuring the fact that America is still not great for everyone.

Scholars and activists who discuss CRT are not arguing that white people living now are to blame for what people did in the past. They are saying that white people living now have a moral responsibility to do something about how racism still impacts all of our lives today."


1. To call the first point a "gross exaggeration" is unfair. That's, instead, being debated.

2. True. The remedy being calibrated to address "systemic racism" (which does not imply any individual is racist) amount to race-centric government interventions, until "equity" is reached. An eye for an eye. These remedies are illegal.

3. Here, they just come right out and admit it. People have different "responsibility" according to skin color. That's an view with a very, very troubling history.


Because it is a legal issue, it is taught in law school. Like Harvard. Where a certain Texas Senator who hates CRT and wants to stop it's teaching went and was taught CRT. This is not being taught in grade school or high school but law school. But people are outraged because they are told to be outraged.
 
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:20 am

This could be the most perfect summary of the anti CRT racists:

Anti-critical race theory parents reportedly object to teaching Ruby Bridges book

https://theweek.com/news/1002407/anti-c ... idges-book

"Robin Steenman, who heads Moms for Liberty's Williamson County chapter, reportedly pointed to this book and others at an education committee meeting, claiming its mention of a "large crowd of angry white people who didn't want Black children in a white school" was too harsh and pointing to the fact that it didn't offer "redemption" at the end, the Tennessean reports. "

Critical race theory to conservatives is the bits of history where they're not held in the most perfect, angelic, halo of white light. That's it. That's what makes them feel "guilty". Maybe they should ask themselves why they could possibly feel guilty? But that would require a sentient thought and maybe even learning something and we can't have that.

WrldTravlr65 wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Fair correction. But I don't get the sense that most of the people talking about it right now really care about that. To the commentators on the right it's just another set of scary words that are supposed to signal to people "dangerous ideas are being implanted in your children! White people are being cancelled!"



It must be exhausting living in fear all the time. The right is in a constant state of panic and outrage. They’re terrified of an increasingly modern, diverse and complex world that they fail to grasp.


Panic, no.

This has nothing to do with being terrified of an "increasingly modern, diverse, and complex world." As cute as that sounds.

Outrage, yes.

From all of the dramatics, wokeisms, and cancel culture nonsense that is being foisted on this country from the left. It has become so ridiculous, in fact, that I have friends on both sides of the aisle who are done with it. My liberal friends were even starting to say, "enough is enough" when trees in Oregon were being called racist, and showing your work on math problems was a sign of white supremacy, or some stupid thing.

I think the best thing conservatives can do is continue to speak up against the nonsense but don't make any moves with regard to school policy on how things get taught by making it seem like they're minimizing slavery and racism as it has reared its head in this country. That is ridiculous.

Just let it rest; let the liberals continue to drop the anvils on their own feet because they truly are making themselves look ridiculous.

I truly believe that most Americans will be smart enough to see it for what it is. There will certainly be those who are sadly manipulated by the dramatics, but it's mainly a bunch of privileged white liberals and a media that narrates their ideologies that have proven themselves completely over the top who are behind it.

The best thing conservatives can do is instead of trying to overreact to it is just let it run its course. Let the liberals sink their own ship as we go into the midterms rather than giving them ammunition to deflect with.

The fact is, the liberal leaders can play down the increase in violence in liberal cities all they want by playing that childish card of 'Oh, look at these silly Republicans, panicking over this supposed escalation in violence in our cities.' They can ignore the fact by either not reporting that it is happening in the first place, or playing it down. It doesn't change the reality though. Liberals need to be trying to figure out how to change decades of decay in these cities they run, and the plight of black citizens living in those cities they've created, rather than worrying about all the wokeisms and cancel culture and what the other side of the aisle is doing. There is way too much to clean up on your side of the aisle.

And for those who continue with the Republican "panic" nonsense, I happen to live in CA where two of the most liberal cities in our country lie. LA and SF. And I have visited both of them in the past year. And they are literal and figurative toilets. Nothing being made up here for dramatics sake. I have relatives in NYC who say it's worse now than it was last time I visited them. And they're actually center/left.

As to this topic at hand though, no one will deny that slavery is a horrible part of our past, but slavery doesn't exist anymore.

Does racism exist? Yes there are racists in every part of this world. It doesn't make an entire country or group of people racists though.

It would seem this narrative went into overdrive with some incidents over the past year where a black person lost their lives at the hands of LEOs. Yet what isn't reported is that many, many, many more white people have also lost their lives at the hands of LEOs. The reporting has been selective to support a narrative that certain groups want to push. The pandemic was already bad enough, but getting people riled up with other narratives during, hmmm, an election year was especially provocative, wasn't it? Even though all the truths were never fully provided. Because reality would go against the narrative they were trying to push.

Recent decades have proven that in this country, even despite white privileged liberal attempts at telling black citizens that because of the color of their skin they won't be able to amount to much because white people will always be there to stand in their way so they must be taken care of by Democrats, blacks have still become President, Vice President, generals, mayors, congressmen and women, attorney generals, secretaries of state, police officers, attorneys, college professors, teachers, doctors. You name it. And they have been succeeding in many of these fields for a very long time.

You can keep throwing the dramatics and finger pointing at conservatives all you want, but in the end it is liberals who really need to be answering to black citizens who they have treated like children, just to get their vote. And trying to reinvent slavery in 2021 when it's the liberals who are treating blacks like they're not capable enough to take care of themselves through their messaging seems a little odd, doesn't it? Sounds like the 1800s south. And the fact they are doing it just to get their vote is reprehensible.

No. It's not panic. It's outrage. That a group of people that fall under an official political party in this country continue to mislead a group of Americans, keeping them from becoming what they truly can become. Watch Morgan Freeman's interview with Don Lemon some 6 or 7 years ago. He nails it.

And the increasing number of actual black conservatives are nailing it in their own way too.

These trite little deflections by liberals to minimize the message of conservatives is, well, cute. But they're never anything more than just fluff with nothing to back it up. Except dramatics and cute little talking points. Never reality. As long as it works though. As long as it keeps voters from seeing the reality and continuing to vote Democrat, it's all good. Right? No matter the consequences.

And while we're at it, gotta love how liberals mock conservative comments on Marxism, socialism and communism as being some knee-jerk, panicked reaction that is overblown.

No. We're just looking at the large number of immigrants who fled countries where those philosophies exist, and we listen to their stories. And we put more stock in what they have to say, having experienced it, than what a bunch of privileged white liberals, who for some reason find those words sexy, say.

But again, it's just another sign of being out of touch with reality. Such things sound sexy to you because you don't live them. You live a life of privilege here in the USA. And feel guilty for it. So trying to decry it by tossing those words around makes you somehow feel better about yourself and seem oh so progressive.

Nope. Listen to the stories of these immigrants and it just shows you're out of touch. Plain and simple.

You could have just admitted you're a white supremacist with zero understanding of history and avoided all that mumbo jumbo. It's your party's only platform really, so no one is even surprised anymore.

afcjets wrote:
seb146 wrote:
CRT is yet another attempt by the right to fake outrage over something. Like "cancel culture" or voting rights.


The right didn't make up CRT. I would be more outraged as a black parent if my kid was taught they're a victim than I would as a white parent that my child has something to apologize for.

No one is teaching black people are "victims." Even the quickest skim of history would make it apparent that one group--whites--have disproportionately benefited from the labor and accumulation of capital over centuries extracted from Blacks (also Native americans, Chinese, you name it) until it was explicitly banned by the government barely a generation ago. To think that chasm in wealth and inequality in treatment has disappeared in one-two generations is imagining the impossible.
 
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:58 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
This could be the most perfect summary of the anti CRT racists:

Anti-critical race theory parents reportedly object to teaching Ruby Bridges book

https://theweek.com/news/1002407/anti-c ... idges-book

"Robin Steenman, who heads Moms for Liberty's Williamson County chapter, reportedly pointed to this book and others at an education committee meeting, claiming its mention of a "large crowd of angry white people who didn't want Black children in a white school" was too harsh and pointing to the fact that it didn't offer "redemption" at the end, the Tennessean reports. "

Critical race theory to conservatives is the bits of history where they're not held in the most perfect, angelic, halo of white light. That's it. That's what makes them feel "guilty". Maybe they should ask themselves why they could possibly feel guilty? But that would require a sentient thought and maybe even learning something and we can't have that.

WrldTravlr65 wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:


It must be exhausting living in fear all the time. The right is in a constant state of panic and outrage. They’re terrified of an increasingly modern, diverse and complex world that they fail to grasp.


Panic, no.

This has nothing to do with being terrified of an "increasingly modern, diverse, and complex world." As cute as that sounds.

Outrage, yes.

From all of the dramatics, wokeisms, and cancel culture nonsense that is being foisted on this country from the left. It has become so ridiculous, in fact, that I have friends on both sides of the aisle who are done with it. My liberal friends were even starting to say, "enough is enough" when trees in Oregon were being called racist, and showing your work on math problems was a sign of white supremacy, or some stupid thing.

I think the best thing conservatives can do is continue to speak up against the nonsense but don't make any moves with regard to school policy on how things get taught by making it seem like they're minimizing slavery and racism as it has reared its head in this country. That is ridiculous.

Just let it rest; let the liberals continue to drop the anvils on their own feet because they truly are making themselves look ridiculous.

I truly believe that most Americans will be smart enough to see it for what it is. There will certainly be those who are sadly manipulated by the dramatics, but it's mainly a bunch of privileged white liberals and a media that narrates their ideologies that have proven themselves completely over the top who are behind it.

The best thing conservatives can do is instead of trying to overreact to it is just let it run its course. Let the liberals sink their own ship as we go into the midterms rather than giving them ammunition to deflect with.

The fact is, the liberal leaders can play down the increase in violence in liberal cities all they want by playing that childish card of 'Oh, look at these silly Republicans, panicking over this supposed escalation in violence in our cities.' They can ignore the fact by either not reporting that it is happening in the first place, or playing it down. It doesn't change the reality though. Liberals need to be trying to figure out how to change decades of decay in these cities they run, and the plight of black citizens living in those cities they've created, rather than worrying about all the wokeisms and cancel culture and what the other side of the aisle is doing. There is way too much to clean up on your side of the aisle.

And for those who continue with the Republican "panic" nonsense, I happen to live in CA where two of the most liberal cities in our country lie. LA and SF. And I have visited both of them in the past year. And they are literal and figurative toilets. Nothing being made up here for dramatics sake. I have relatives in NYC who say it's worse now than it was last time I visited them. And they're actually center/left.

As to this topic at hand though, no one will deny that slavery is a horrible part of our past, but slavery doesn't exist anymore.

Does racism exist? Yes there are racists in every part of this world. It doesn't make an entire country or group of people racists though.

It would seem this narrative went into overdrive with some incidents over the past year where a black person lost their lives at the hands of LEOs. Yet what isn't reported is that many, many, many more white people have also lost their lives at the hands of LEOs. The reporting has been selective to support a narrative that certain groups want to push. The pandemic was already bad enough, but getting people riled up with other narratives during, hmmm, an election year was especially provocative, wasn't it? Even though all the truths were never fully provided. Because reality would go against the narrative they were trying to push.

Recent decades have proven that in this country, even despite white privileged liberal attempts at telling black citizens that because of the color of their skin they won't be able to amount to much because white people will always be there to stand in their way so they must be taken care of by Democrats, blacks have still become President, Vice President, generals, mayors, congressmen and women, attorney generals, secretaries of state, police officers, attorneys, college professors, teachers, doctors. You name it. And they have been succeeding in many of these fields for a very long time.

You can keep throwing the dramatics and finger pointing at conservatives all you want, but in the end it is liberals who really need to be answering to black citizens who they have treated like children, just to get their vote. And trying to reinvent slavery in 2021 when it's the liberals who are treating blacks like they're not capable enough to take care of themselves through their messaging seems a little odd, doesn't it? Sounds like the 1800s south. And the fact they are doing it just to get their vote is reprehensible.

No. It's not panic. It's outrage. That a group of people that fall under an official political party in this country continue to mislead a group of Americans, keeping them from becoming what they truly can become. Watch Morgan Freeman's interview with Don Lemon some 6 or 7 years ago. He nails it.

And the increasing number of actual black conservatives are nailing it in their own way too.

These trite little deflections by liberals to minimize the message of conservatives is, well, cute. But they're never anything more than just fluff with nothing to back it up. Except dramatics and cute little talking points. Never reality. As long as it works though. As long as it keeps voters from seeing the reality and continuing to vote Democrat, it's all good. Right? No matter the consequences.

And while we're at it, gotta love how liberals mock conservative comments on Marxism, socialism and communism as being some knee-jerk, panicked reaction that is overblown.

No. We're just looking at the large number of immigrants who fled countries where those philosophies exist, and we listen to their stories. And we put more stock in what they have to say, having experienced it, than what a bunch of privileged white liberals, who for some reason find those words sexy, say.

But again, it's just another sign of being out of touch with reality. Such things sound sexy to you because you don't live them. You live a life of privilege here in the USA. And feel guilty for it. So trying to decry it by tossing those words around makes you somehow feel better about yourself and seem oh so progressive.

Nope. Listen to the stories of these immigrants and it just shows you're out of touch. Plain and simple.

You could have just admitted you're a white supremacist with zero understanding of history and avoided all that mumbo jumbo. It's your party's only platform really, so no one is even surprised anymore.

afcjets wrote:
seb146 wrote:
CRT is yet another attempt by the right to fake outrage over something. Like "cancel culture" or voting rights.


The right didn't make up CRT. I would be more outraged as a black parent if my kid was taught they're a victim than I would as a white parent that my child has something to apologize for.

No one is teaching black people are "victims." Even the quickest skim of history would make it apparent that one group--whites--have disproportionately benefited from the labor and accumulation of capital over centuries extracted from Blacks (also Native americans, Chinese, you name it) until it was explicitly banned by the government barely a generation ago. To think that chasm in wealth and inequality in treatment has disappeared in one-two generations is imagining the impossible.


But Mav you're not thinking about the childruns....they wul feel BAD if lib'rul teacherz talk about gaps. :hissyfit:
 
stratosphere
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:56 am

seb146 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Not all parents are outraged. I think we need to figure out what CRT is in the first place. Many people do not know.

https://www.edweek.org/leadership/what- ... ck/2021/05
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2 ... ce-theory/


Thanks, those are good sources, but their opinions are debatable.
some website wrote:
"Opponents fear that CRT admonishes all white people for being oppressors while classifying all Black people as hopelessly oppressed victims. These fears have spurred school boards and state legislatures from Tennessee to Idaho to ban teachings about racism in classrooms. However, there is a fundamental problem: these narratives about CRT are gross exaggerations of the theoretical framework. The broad brush that is being applied to CRT is puzzling to academics, including some of the scholars who coined and advanced the framework.

CRT does not attribute racism to white people as individuals or even to entire groups of people. Simply put, critical race theory states that U.S. social institutions (e.g., the criminal justice system, education system, labor market, housing market, and healthcare system) are laced with racism embedded in laws, regulations, rules, and procedures that lead to differential outcomes by race. Sociologists and other scholars have long noted that racism can exist without racists. However, many Americans are not able to separate their individual identity as an American from the social institutions that govern us—these people perceive themselves as the system. Consequently, they interpret calling social institutions racist as calling them racist personally. It speaks to how normative racial ideology is to American identity that some people just cannot separate the two. There are also people who may recognize America’s racist past but have bought into the false narrative that the U.S. is now an equitable democracy. They are simply unwilling to remove the blind spot obscuring the fact that America is still not great for everyone.

Scholars and activists who discuss CRT are not arguing that white people living now are to blame for what people did in the past. They are saying that white people living now have a moral responsibility to do something about how racism still impacts all of our lives today."


1. To call the first point a "gross exaggeration" is unfair. That's, instead, being debated.

2. True. The remedy being calibrated to address "systemic racism" (which does not imply any individual is racist) amount to race-centric government interventions, until "equity" is reached. An eye for an eye. These remedies are illegal.

3. Here, they just come right out and admit it. People have different "responsibility" according to skin color. That's an view with a very, very troubling history.


Because it is a legal issue, it is taught in law school. Like Harvard. Where a certain Texas Senator who hates CRT and wants to stop it's teaching went and was taught CRT. This is not being taught in grade school or high school but law school. But people are outraged because they are told to be outraged.


That is just the point . it is supposed to be a graduate level course and yet CNN and MSNBC are saying that as well but here is Randi Weingarten head of the teachers union vowing to fight any laws to stop teaching it. So which is it CNN ? Is it graduate school or public school? We all know what it is or it wouldn't be a story. Stop indoctrinating our kids in hate we know CRT is not talking about actual history which I wouldn't care like Jim Crow and Slavery but the CRT is basically that how you outcome is biased to you skin color and that's not true I know plenty of successful blacks and plenty of poor whites . Enough of the division already I know it's all about Democratic power to keep everyone at each others throat.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:59 am

stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

Thanks, those are good sources, but their opinions are debatable.


1. To call the first point a "gross exaggeration" is unfair. That's, instead, being debated.

2. True. The remedy being calibrated to address "systemic racism" (which does not imply any individual is racist) amount to race-centric government interventions, until "equity" is reached. An eye for an eye. These remedies are illegal.

3. Here, they just come right out and admit it. People have different "responsibility" according to skin color. That's an view with a very, very troubling history.


Because it is a legal issue, it is taught in law school. Like Harvard. Where a certain Texas Senator who hates CRT and wants to stop it's teaching went and was taught CRT. This is not being taught in grade school or high school but law school. But people are outraged because they are told to be outraged.


That is just the point . it is supposed to be a graduate level course and yet CNN and MSNBC are saying that as well but here is Randi Weingarten head of the teachers union vowing to fight any laws to stop teaching it. So which is it CNN ? Is it graduate school or public school? We all know what it is or it wouldn't be a story. Stop indoctrinating our kids in hate we know CRT is not talking about actual history which I wouldn't care like Jim Crow and Slavery but the CRT is basically that how you outcome is biased to you skin color and that's not true I know plenty of successful blacks and plenty of poor whites . Enough of the division already I know it's all about Democratic power to keep everyone at each others throat.


This is one of the laziest canards used in discussions about inequality. 'I know a few successful blacks therefore biased outcomes don't exist' is 100% logical fallacy. Also kindly quote 'hateful' language from any CRT materials - I challenge you to find some.
 
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casinterest
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:14 am

stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

Thanks, those are good sources, but their opinions are debatable.


1. To call the first point a "gross exaggeration" is unfair. That's, instead, being debated.

2. True. The remedy being calibrated to address "systemic racism" (which does not imply any individual is racist) amount to race-centric government interventions, until "equity" is reached. An eye for an eye. These remedies are illegal.

3. Here, they just come right out and admit it. People have different "responsibility" according to skin color. That's an view with a very, very troubling history.


Because it is a legal issue, it is taught in law school. Like Harvard. Where a certain Texas Senator who hates CRT and wants to stop it's teaching went and was taught CRT. This is not being taught in grade school or high school but law school. But people are outraged because they are told to be outraged.


That is just the point . it is supposed to be a graduate level course and yet CNN and MSNBC are saying that as well but here is Randi Weingarten head of the teachers union vowing to fight any laws to stop teaching it. So which is it CNN ? Is it graduate school or public school? We all know what it is or it wouldn't be a story. Stop indoctrinating our kids in hate we know CRT is not talking about actual history which I wouldn't care like Jim Crow and Slavery but the CRT is basically that how you outcome is biased to you skin color and that's not true I know plenty of successful blacks and plenty of poor whites . Enough of the division already I know it's all about Democratic power to keep everyone at each others throat.



If it is a graduate level course, why are right wing news sites selling such cowardly stories about the invasion from everywhere? Do you know why?

It is to scare uneducated folks that are racist at heart and weak with money. It is a fund raiser off of some of the least civically involved or educated people.

The issue is that to get the money, the GOP is lying straight to the core about what CRT is , and what it means, and you are repeating those lies like a loyalist that is not capable of recognizing what is in your first sentence. CRT is understanding that this country has a history of racism, It can be seen through slavery, Jim Crow Laws, Segregation, Real Estate Red lining, and the fact that over 90-95% of republicans making the decision on CRT are not of minority race.
 
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seb146
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Sat Jul 10, 2021 4:10 pm

stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

Thanks, those are good sources, but their opinions are debatable.


1. To call the first point a "gross exaggeration" is unfair. That's, instead, being debated.

2. True. The remedy being calibrated to address "systemic racism" (which does not imply any individual is racist) amount to race-centric government interventions, until "equity" is reached. An eye for an eye. These remedies are illegal.

3. Here, they just come right out and admit it. People have different "responsibility" according to skin color. That's an view with a very, very troubling history.


Because it is a legal issue, it is taught in law school. Like Harvard. Where a certain Texas Senator who hates CRT and wants to stop it's teaching went and was taught CRT. This is not being taught in grade school or high school but law school. But people are outraged because they are told to be outraged.


That is just the point . it is supposed to be a graduate level course and yet CNN and MSNBC are saying that as well but here is Randi Weingarten head of the teachers union vowing to fight any laws to stop teaching it. So which is it CNN ? Is it graduate school or public school? We all know what it is or it wouldn't be a story. Stop indoctrinating our kids in hate we know CRT is not talking about actual history which I wouldn't care like Jim Crow and Slavery but the CRT is basically that how you outcome is biased to you skin color and that's not true I know plenty of successful blacks and plenty of poor whites . Enough of the division already I know it's all about Democratic power to keep everyone at each others throat.


Why are Republican controlled states working so hard to ban the teaching of CRT in K-12 when it is not even taught in K-12 schools? It seems like an unnecessary expansion of government and a waste of taxpayer dollars. But, anything to keep the base scared and angry, I guess...

BTW, the only reason MSNBC and CNN are saying anything at all about CRT is to educate people. Fox, OANN, Newsmax are outraged that it is taught at all so let's ban teaching it. How is that even close to the same?
 
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:06 pm

seb146 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Because it is a legal issue, it is taught in law school. Like Harvard. Where a certain Texas Senator who hates CRT and wants to stop it's teaching went and was taught CRT. This is not being taught in grade school or high school but law school. But people are outraged because they are told to be outraged.


That is just the point . it is supposed to be a graduate level course and yet CNN and MSNBC are saying that as well but here is Randi Weingarten head of the teachers union vowing to fight any laws to stop teaching it. So which is it CNN ? Is it graduate school or public school? We all know what it is or it wouldn't be a story. Stop indoctrinating our kids in hate we know CRT is not talking about actual history which I wouldn't care like Jim Crow and Slavery but the CRT is basically that how you outcome is biased to you skin color and that's not true I know plenty of successful blacks and plenty of poor whites . Enough of the division already I know it's all about Democratic power to keep everyone at each others throat.


Why are Republican controlled states working so hard to ban the teaching of CRT in K-12 when it is not even taught in K-12 schools? It seems like an unnecessary expansion of government and a waste of taxpayer dollars. But, anything to keep the base scared and angry, I guess...

BTW, the only reason MSNBC and CNN are saying anything at all about CRT is to educate people. Fox, OANN, Newsmax are outraged that it is taught at all so let's ban teaching it. How is that even close to the same?


Critical theory directly informs what schools teach in English, History and social studies/civics. It directly informs what historical truth "is," in the eyes of the curriculum builders. Who often do hold doctorates.

The extreme right and extreme left would teach completely different US histories in order to indoctrinate children in their political faiths. Bringing children before their respective altars. My thought is, if one extreme is banned, the other extreme probably isn't appropriate either.
 
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Topic Author
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Sat Jul 10, 2021 10:08 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:

That is just the point . it is supposed to be a graduate level course and yet CNN and MSNBC are saying that as well but here is Randi Weingarten head of the teachers union vowing to fight any laws to stop teaching it. So which is it CNN ? Is it graduate school or public school? We all know what it is or it wouldn't be a story. Stop indoctrinating our kids in hate we know CRT is not talking about actual history which I wouldn't care like Jim Crow and Slavery but the CRT is basically that how you outcome is biased to you skin color and that's not true I know plenty of successful blacks and plenty of poor whites . Enough of the division already I know it's all about Democratic power to keep everyone at each others throat.


Why are Republican controlled states working so hard to ban the teaching of CRT in K-12 when it is not even taught in K-12 schools? It seems like an unnecessary expansion of government and a waste of taxpayer dollars. But, anything to keep the base scared and angry, I guess...

BTW, the only reason MSNBC and CNN are saying anything at all about CRT is to educate people. Fox, OANN, Newsmax are outraged that it is taught at all so let's ban teaching it. How is that even close to the same?


Critical theory directly informs what schools teach in English, History and social studies/civics. It directly informs what historical truth "is," in the eyes of the curriculum builders. Who often do hold doctorates.

The extreme right and extreme left would teach completely different US histories in order to indoctrinate children in their political faiths. Bringing children before their respective altars. My thought is, if one extreme is banned, the other extreme probably isn't appropriate either.

We can barely get evolution into textbooks--remember intelligent design? The idea the critical race theory is making it into text books is lunacy.
 
FGITD
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:57 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
We can barely get evolution into textbooks--remember intelligent design? The idea the critical race theory is making it into text books is lunacy.


This whole thing is some quixotic battle. I went to these oft dreaded, alleged liberal breeding ground American public schools. By their measure, modern American history usually ends right around 1945. Race is covered with a discussion that slavery existed and it was bad, so we had a war and ended it.

The idea that children in school even have the time to learn about the nuances of modern race relations is hysterical. Outside of specialized classes (in other words…university level) they just don’t have the class time or resources to commit to this.

As a matter of fact, I’d wager that a not insignificant number of American schools teach history with books that still have the USSR on the maps.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:41 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Why are Republican controlled states working so hard to ban the teaching of CRT in K-12 when it is not even taught in K-12 schools? It seems like an unnecessary expansion of government and a waste of taxpayer dollars. But, anything to keep the base scared and angry, I guess...

BTW, the only reason MSNBC and CNN are saying anything at all about CRT is to educate people. Fox, OANN, Newsmax are outraged that it is taught at all so let's ban teaching it. How is that even close to the same?


Critical theory directly informs what schools teach in English, History and social studies/civics. It directly informs what historical truth "is," in the eyes of the curriculum builders. Who often do hold doctorates.

The extreme right and extreme left would teach completely different US histories in order to indoctrinate children in their political faiths. Bringing children before their respective altars. My thought is, if one extreme is banned, the other extreme probably isn't appropriate either.

We can barely get evolution into textbooks--remember intelligent design? The idea the critical race theory is making it into text books is lunacy.


This is an absurd straw man argument. Obviously there is no graduate level critical theory class in high schools. Nobody said there is such a class. However, they do have English, history and social studies classes. We are talking about what they teach in those classes. Was US history a story of tragedy and evil? Should we trust history written by people of a particular race (CRT)? Are the books in English class all militant political books? Again, are certain books more true or false because of the race of the author? Can particular students understand particular books because of their skin color? This is mainstream stuff now.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Sun Jul 11, 2021 12:56 am

LCDFlight wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

Critical theory directly informs what schools teach in English, History and social studies/civics. It directly informs what historical truth "is," in the eyes of the curriculum builders. Who often do hold doctorates.

The extreme right and extreme left would teach completely different US histories in order to indoctrinate children in their political faiths. Bringing children before their respective altars. My thought is, if one extreme is banned, the other extreme probably isn't appropriate either.

We can barely get evolution into textbooks--remember intelligent design? The idea the critical race theory is making it into text books is lunacy.


This is an absurd straw man argument. Obviously there is no graduate level critical theory class in high schools. Nobody said there is such a class. However, they do have English, history and social studies classes. We are talking about what they teach in those classes. Was US history a story of tragedy and evil? Should we trust history written by people of a particular race (CRT)? Are the books in English class all militant political books? Again, are certain books more true or false because of the race of the author? Can particular students understand particular books because of their skin color? This is mainstream stuff now.


I really cannot follow. I was in California public schools in Silicon Valley of all places just 20 short years ago. Our teachers discussed both sides of things when there was time and glossed over stuff when there wasn't. Very serious issues like the native American genocide in California and extrajudicial killings of Chicanos by law enforcement in 1900s-1950s Southern California were not even covered, like, at all. There was very little of what you describe - see FGITD's post above.
 
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:31 am

Aaron747 wrote:
This is one of the laziest canards used in discussions about inequality.


It's right up there with "I can't be racist, I have a black friend."
 
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seb146
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:29 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:

That is just the point . it is supposed to be a graduate level course and yet CNN and MSNBC are saying that as well but here is Randi Weingarten head of the teachers union vowing to fight any laws to stop teaching it. So which is it CNN ? Is it graduate school or public school? We all know what it is or it wouldn't be a story. Stop indoctrinating our kids in hate we know CRT is not talking about actual history which I wouldn't care like Jim Crow and Slavery but the CRT is basically that how you outcome is biased to you skin color and that's not true I know plenty of successful blacks and plenty of poor whites . Enough of the division already I know it's all about Democratic power to keep everyone at each others throat.


Why are Republican controlled states working so hard to ban the teaching of CRT in K-12 when it is not even taught in K-12 schools? It seems like an unnecessary expansion of government and a waste of taxpayer dollars. But, anything to keep the base scared and angry, I guess...

BTW, the only reason MSNBC and CNN are saying anything at all about CRT is to educate people. Fox, OANN, Newsmax are outraged that it is taught at all so let's ban teaching it. How is that even close to the same?


Critical theory directly informs what schools teach in English, History and social studies/civics. It directly informs what historical truth "is," in the eyes of the curriculum builders. Who often do hold doctorates.

The extreme right and extreme left would teach completely different US histories in order to indoctrinate children in their political faiths. Bringing children before their respective altars. My thought is, if one extreme is banned, the other extreme probably isn't appropriate either.


CRT is about law, not about how English and history are presented to public school children. Go look at curriculum people are taught to become educators. CRT is not included. I was raised in the American public school system. We were taught slavery was bad, we had a war over it, then there were some good economic times, then bad, then another war fought, this time against fascism and very little mention of separate but (not really) equal groups fighting for the same side. There was talk of an internment camp near us in very general and vague terms for like five minutes. Anything I learned about the horrors of America's racist past I learned on my own. Like violence against Natives when they tried to speak their own language or "sundown laws" or how terribly Asians were treated during the building of the Transcontinental Railroad.

Many wonderful things did happen in this country. But it wasn't all sunshine and lollypops. Republicans don't seem to want to hear that, though.
 
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casinterest
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:28 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

Critical theory directly informs what schools teach in English, History and social studies/civics. It directly informs what historical truth "is," in the eyes of the curriculum builders. Who often do hold doctorates.

The extreme right and extreme left would teach completely different US histories in order to indoctrinate children in their political faiths. Bringing children before their respective altars. My thought is, if one extreme is banned, the other extreme probably isn't appropriate either.

We can barely get evolution into textbooks--remember intelligent design? The idea the critical race theory is making it into text books is lunacy.


This is an absurd straw man argument. Obviously there is no graduate level critical theory class in high schools. Nobody said there is such a class. However, they do have English, history and social studies classes. We are talking about what they teach in those classes. Was US history a story of tragedy and evil? Should we trust history written by people of a particular race (CRT)? Are the books in English class all militant political books? Again, are certain books more true or false because of the race of the author? Can particular students understand particular books because of their skin color? This is mainstream stuff now.



This is why we have PROFESSIONALS, and not cowardly political racists running schools and educational committee's. They look and decide on the cirruclum choices that meet the needs of the students to learn and function in this society. These Anti-CRT laws are no better than a bunch of Nazi era book burning, they don't trust educators to make good decisions, and they are creating restrictions on valid issues that must be taught.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:48 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
We can barely get evolution into textbooks--remember intelligent design? The idea the critical race theory is making it into text books is lunacy.


This is an absurd straw man argument. Obviously there is no graduate level critical theory class in high schools. Nobody said there is such a class. However, they do have English, history and social studies classes. We are talking about what they teach in those classes. Was US history a story of tragedy and evil? Should we trust history written by people of a particular race (CRT)? Are the books in English class all militant political books? Again, are certain books more true or false because of the race of the author? Can particular students understand particular books because of their skin color? This is mainstream stuff now.


I really cannot follow. I was in California public schools in Silicon Valley of all places just 20 short years ago. Our teachers discussed both sides of things when there was time and glossed over stuff when there wasn't. Very serious issues like the native American genocide in California and extrajudicial killings of Chicanos by law enforcement in 1900s-1950s Southern California were not even covered, like, at all. There was very little of what you describe - see FGITD's post above.


I went to good schools too. Probably a majority of books we read were by PoC, and were presented with admiration. We studied slavery and Native affairs very extensively, over multiple years. But, that was decades ago. I think today, things are a million miles past that. We are now talking about dismantling structures of oppression such as the police, the US flag, private property rights etc.

Here are some notes from disrupttexts.org. By the way, I agree with some of what they are saying!

https://disrupttexts.org/2021/01/02/january-2021-statement/ wrote:
"We believe that no curricular or instructional decision is a neutral one. For too long, the traditional “canon” — at all grade levels — has excluded the voices and rich literary legacies of communities of color. This exclusion hurts all students, and especially students of color.
We believe that critical analysis of all texts helps students become stronger thinkers. Each of us has studied, taught, and continue to teach from canonical texts, just as we also make intentional choices about teaching, pairing, and centering BIPOC voices. Thus, #DisruptTexts advocates for curriculum and instructional practices that are culturally responsive and antiracist."


casinterest wrote:
This is why we have PROFESSIONALS, and not cowardly political racists running schools and educational committee's.


It sounds like you live in an exceptional area.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:01 am

LCDFlight wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

Critical theory directly informs what schools teach in English, History and social studies/civics. It directly informs what historical truth "is," in the eyes of the curriculum builders. Who often do hold doctorates.

The extreme right and extreme left would teach completely different US histories in order to indoctrinate children in their political faiths. Bringing children before their respective altars. My thought is, if one extreme is banned, the other extreme probably isn't appropriate either.

We can barely get evolution into textbooks--remember intelligent design? The idea the critical race theory is making it into text books is lunacy.


This is an absurd straw man argument. Obviously there is no graduate level critical theory class in high schools. Nobody said there is such a class. However, they do have English, history and social studies classes. We are talking about what they teach in those classes. Was US history a story of tragedy and evil? Should we trust history written by people of a particular race (CRT)? Are the books in English class all militant political books? Again, are certain books more true or false because of the race of the author? Can particular students understand particular books because of their skin color? This is mainstream stuff now.

The whole "argument" is a straw man conjured up by the bats flying around racist conservatives' empty heads. It's like calling the flat earth wingnuttery an "argument". There is no argument. Conservatives absolutely have zero interest in acknowledging minorities in American history, and certainly refuse to believe that any discrimination or ill treatment in the past is reflected in inequality today. All they know is Thomas Jefferson was a perfect angel that hated slavery and loved freedom. Sally Hemmings was a 14 year old who gladly enjoyed being raped by her master. Both Jefferson's white children and mixed children had totally equal opportunities devoid of any legal/economic/politically imposed obstacles in life and that is true for everyone up through history to today. What are conservatives going to do when they realize the Native American reservations they deride as socialist/communist/marxist experiments were creations of the USA, and people were forced at gunpoint to choose death or living on a reservation?
 
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casinterest
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:28 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
#DisruptTexts advocates for curriculum and instructional practices that are culturally responsive and antiracist."


casinterest wrote:
This is why we have PROFESSIONALS, and not cowardly political racists running schools and educational committee's.


It sounds like you live in an exceptional area.[/quote]

I live in an area where people leave ignorant areas that allow these types of laws to advance.
 
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casinterest
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:06 pm

Good article on all of this.

https://www.salon.com/2021/07/12/histor ... n-history/

American history is a puzzle, full of contradictions and complexity. But some people, instead of studying this history so as to make better decisions in the present and future, choose to take a hammer to the puzzle. They smash it and then hammer the pieces back together so as to fit their self-serving lies and distortions.

Consider the moral panic created by the white right against "critical race theory." Of course, as deployed by right-wing propagandists, "critical race theory" possesses little if any resemblance to the epistemological framework of the same name. For the white right it's a term that means everything and nothing, a convenient vessel into which they can pour white rage, white fear, white victimology and white supremacy in an ongoing attack on multiracial American democracy.


The United States is not in the midst of a "culture war" over race and racism. The animating force of our current conflict is not our differing values, beliefs, moral codes, or practices. The American people aren't divided. The American people are being divided.

Republican operatives have buried the actual definition of critical race theory: "a way of looking at law's role platforming, facilitating, producing, and even insulating racial inequality in our country," as the law professor Kimberlé Crenshaw, who helped coin the term, recently defined it. Instead, the attacks on critical race theory are based on made-up definitions and descriptors. …




In the end all of this will wind up like other racist legislation.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ram-498926

While education fights inherently differ by state, another takeaway from the Tucson saga was the role the courts ultimately played in deciding the fate of Mexican American studies, including examining the intent behind the state’s ban. Shortly after the district got rid of the classes, students and parents filed a lawsuit alleging that the ban violated their First and Fourteenth Amendment rights. After the case made a tour through district court, then up to the court of appeals and back to the trial level, a federal district court judge ruled in 2017 that the law was enacted with “racial animus” and used “discriminatory ends in order to make political gains” — and therefore was unconstitutional.
 
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seb146
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:20 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
We can barely get evolution into textbooks--remember intelligent design? The idea the critical race theory is making it into text books is lunacy.


This is an absurd straw man argument. Obviously there is no graduate level critical theory class in high schools. Nobody said there is such a class. However, they do have English, history and social studies classes. We are talking about what they teach in those classes. Was US history a story of tragedy and evil? Should we trust history written by people of a particular race (CRT)? Are the books in English class all militant political books? Again, are certain books more true or false because of the race of the author? Can particular students understand particular books because of their skin color? This is mainstream stuff now.

The whole "argument" is a straw man conjured up by the bats flying around racist conservatives' empty heads. It's like calling the flat earth wingnuttery an "argument". There is no argument. Conservatives absolutely have zero interest in acknowledging minorities in American history, and certainly refuse to believe that any discrimination or ill treatment in the past is reflected in inequality today. All they know is Thomas Jefferson was a perfect angel that hated slavery and loved freedom. Sally Hemmings was a 14 year old who gladly enjoyed being raped by her master. Both Jefferson's white children and mixed children had totally equal opportunities devoid of any legal/economic/politically imposed obstacles in life and that is true for everyone up through history to today. What are conservatives going to do when they realize the Native American reservations they deride as socialist/communist/marxist experiments were creations of the USA, and people were forced at gunpoint to choose death or living on a reservation?


I wonder how MAGAs will spin this happening in my back yard

https://www.oregonlive.com/education/20 ... raves.html
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/native ... 021-06-22/
 
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casinterest
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:43 pm

And here we have a follow the money article that highlights how rich racists are manipulating the media.

https://popular.info/p/the-obscure-foun ... g-critical

The Thomas W. Smith Foundation has donated more than $12.7 million to 21 organizations attacking Critical Race Theory
Between 2017 and 2019, the Thomas W. Smith Foundation has granted at least $12.75 million to organizations that publicly attack Critical Race Theory, according to a review of tax disclosures by Popular Information. The foundation's grants for 2020 will not be disclosed until late-2021.


When you look at the list at the bottom of the page, most of the recipients are not very surprising to those that are familiar with "Right" wing media that takes money to write sham articles.

In a 2017 column, Piereson criticized liberal philanthropists for focusing on "climate change, income inequality, [and] immigrant rights," describing these as "radical causes." He stressed the need for "a counterbalance provided by right-leaning philanthropies."

Piereson also opposes classes dedicated to the study of women, Black people, or the LGBTQ community in universities, saying these topics lack "academic rigor."

In the 1960s, universities caved to the demands of radicals on campus by expanding academic departments to include women's studies, black studies, and, more recently, "queer studies." These programs are college mainstays, making up in ideological vigor what they lack in academic rigor.

He opposes efforts to diversify professors or students on college campuses saying "diversity-promotion efforts on campus actually increase resentment on the part of both white and minority students." Piereson argued that "racial bigotry and violence against women" is not a big probl


So most of this is the result of one man's crusade to destroy culture and education.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:12 pm

casinterest wrote:
And here we have a follow the money article that highlights how rich racists are manipulating the media.

https://popular.info/p/the-obscure-foun ... g-critical

The Thomas W. Smith Foundation has donated more than $12.7 million to 21 organizations attacking Critical Race Theory
Between 2017 and 2019, the Thomas W. Smith Foundation has granted at least $12.75 million to organizations that publicly attack Critical Race Theory, according to a review of tax disclosures by Popular Information. The foundation's grants for 2020 will not be disclosed until late-2021.


When you look at the list at the bottom of the page, most of the recipients are not very surprising to those that are familiar with "Right" wing media that takes money to write sham articles.

In a 2017 column, Piereson criticized liberal philanthropists for focusing on "climate change, income inequality, [and] immigrant rights," describing these as "radical causes." He stressed the need for "a counterbalance provided by right-leaning philanthropies."

Piereson also opposes classes dedicated to the study of women, Black people, or the LGBTQ community in universities, saying these topics lack "academic rigor."

In the 1960s, universities caved to the demands of radicals on campus by expanding academic departments to include women's studies, black studies, and, more recently, "queer studies." These programs are college mainstays, making up in ideological vigor what they lack in academic rigor.

He opposes efforts to diversify professors or students on college campuses saying "diversity-promotion efforts on campus actually increase resentment on the part of both white and minority students." Piereson argued that "racial bigotry and violence against women" is not a big probl


So most of this is the result of one man's crusade to destroy culture and education.

I'm a little surprised that Rufo just copped to the whole thing:

"The goal is to have the public read something crazy in the newspaper and immediately think "critical race theory." We have decodified the term and will recodify it to annex the entire range of cultural constructions that are unpopular with Americans."

I'm not surprised, but I kinda figured racists would be a lil less transparent about their racism.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 14171
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:37 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
And here we have a follow the money article that highlights how rich racists are manipulating the media.

https://popular.info/p/the-obscure-foun ... g-critical

The Thomas W. Smith Foundation has donated more than $12.7 million to 21 organizations attacking Critical Race Theory
Between 2017 and 2019, the Thomas W. Smith Foundation has granted at least $12.75 million to organizations that publicly attack Critical Race Theory, according to a review of tax disclosures by Popular Information. The foundation's grants for 2020 will not be disclosed until late-2021.


When you look at the list at the bottom of the page, most of the recipients are not very surprising to those that are familiar with "Right" wing media that takes money to write sham articles.

In a 2017 column, Piereson criticized liberal philanthropists for focusing on "climate change, income inequality, [and] immigrant rights," describing these as "radical causes." He stressed the need for "a counterbalance provided by right-leaning philanthropies."

Piereson also opposes classes dedicated to the study of women, Black people, or the LGBTQ community in universities, saying these topics lack "academic rigor."

In the 1960s, universities caved to the demands of radicals on campus by expanding academic departments to include women's studies, black studies, and, more recently, "queer studies." These programs are college mainstays, making up in ideological vigor what they lack in academic rigor.

He opposes efforts to diversify professors or students on college campuses saying "diversity-promotion efforts on campus actually increase resentment on the part of both white and minority students." Piereson argued that "racial bigotry and violence against women" is not a big probl


So most of this is the result of one man's crusade to destroy culture and education.

I'm a little surprised that Rufo just copped to the whole thing:

"The goal is to have the public read something crazy in the newspaper and immediately think "critical race theory." We have decodified the term and will recodify it to annex the entire range of cultural constructions that are unpopular with Americans."

I'm not surprised, but I kinda figured racists would be a lil less transparent about their racism.



It is the Swamp, and pay to play , driving the voting cycle through corruption and fear. Rather sad that we have such a large population susceptible to it.
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 2040
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:24 am

The Texas state senate just passed legislation banning the teaching of Women's Suffrage and the Civil Rights Movement. It can't become law until the Texas breakaway Dems return back to Texas:

Texas Senate Votes to Remove Required Lessons on Civil Rights

Source: Bloomberg News
 
Agamadi
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:04 am

WrldTravlr65 wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Fair correction. But I don't get the sense that most of the people talking about it right now really care about that. To the commentators on the right it's just another set of scary words that are supposed to signal to people "dangerous ideas are being implanted in your children! White people are being cancelled!"



It must be exhausting living in fear all the time. The right is in a constant state of panic and outrage. They’re terrified of an increasingly modern, diverse and complex world that they fail to grasp.


Panic, no.

This has nothing to do with being terrified of an "increasingly modern, diverse, and complex world." As cute as that sounds.

Outrage, yes.

From all of the dramatics, wokeisms, and cancel culture nonsense that is being foisted on this country from the left. It has become so ridiculous, in fact, that I have friends on both sides of the aisle who are done with it. My liberal friends were even starting to say, "enough is enough" when trees in Oregon were being called racist, and showing your work on math problems was a sign of white supremacy, or some stupid thing.

I think the best thing conservatives can do is continue to speak up against the nonsense but don't make any moves with regard to school policy on how things get taught by making it seem like they're minimizing slavery and racism as it has reared its head in this country. That is ridiculous.

Just let it rest; let the liberals continue to drop the anvils on their own feet because they truly are making themselves look ridiculous.

I truly believe that most Americans will be smart enough to see it for what it is. There will certainly be those who are sadly manipulated by the dramatics, but it's mainly a bunch of privileged white liberals and a media that narrates their ideologies that have proven themselves completely over the top who are behind it.

The best thing conservatives can do is instead of trying to overreact to it is just let it run its course. Let the liberals sink their own ship as we go into the midterms rather than giving them ammunition to deflect with.

The fact is, the liberal leaders can play down the increase in violence in liberal cities all they want by playing that childish card of 'Oh, look at these silly Republicans, panicking over this supposed escalation in violence in our cities.' They can ignore the fact by either not reporting that it is happening in the first place, or playing it down. It doesn't change the reality though. Liberals need to be trying to figure out how to change decades of decay in these cities they run, and the plight of black citizens living in those cities they've created, rather than worrying about all the wokeisms and cancel culture and what the other side of the aisle is doing. There is way too much to clean up on your side of the aisle.

And for those who continue with the Republican "panic" nonsense, I happen to live in CA where two of the most liberal cities in our country lie. LA and SF. And I have visited both of them in the past year. And they are literal and figurative toilets. Nothing being made up here for dramatics sake. I have relatives in NYC who say it's worse now than it was last time I visited them. And they're actually center/left.

As to this topic at hand though, no one will deny that slavery is a horrible part of our past, but slavery doesn't exist anymore.

Does racism exist? Yes there are racists in every part of this world. It doesn't make an entire country or group of people racists though.

It would seem this narrative went into overdrive with some incidents over the past year where a black person lost their lives at the hands of LEOs. Yet what isn't reported is that many, many, many more white people have also lost their lives at the hands of LEOs. The reporting has been selective to support a narrative that certain groups want to push. The pandemic was already bad enough, but getting people riled up with other narratives during, hmmm, an election year was especially provocative, wasn't it? Even though all the truths were never fully provided. Because reality would go against the narrative they were trying to push.

Recent decades have proven that in this country, even despite white privileged liberal attempts at telling black citizens that because of the color of their skin they won't be able to amount to much because white people will always be there to stand in their way so they must be taken care of by Democrats, blacks have still become President, Vice President, generals, mayors, congressmen and women, attorney generals, secretaries of state, police officers, attorneys, college professors, teachers, doctors. You name it. And they have been succeeding in many of these fields for a very long time.

You can keep throwing the dramatics and finger pointing at conservatives all you want, but in the end it is liberals who really need to be answering to black citizens who they have treated like children, just to get their vote. And trying to reinvent slavery in 2021 when it's the liberals who are treating blacks like they're not capable enough to take care of themselves through their messaging seems a little odd, doesn't it? Sounds like the 1800s south. And the fact they are doing it just to get their vote is reprehensible.

No. It's not panic. It's outrage. That a group of people that fall under an official political party in this country continue to mislead a group of Americans, keeping them from becoming what they truly can become. Watch Morgan Freeman's interview with Don Lemon some 6 or 7 years ago. He nails it.

And the increasing number of actual black conservatives are nailing it in their own way too.

These trite little deflections by liberals to minimize the message of conservatives is, well, cute. But they're never anything more than just fluff with nothing to back it up. Except dramatics and cute little talking points. Never reality. As long as it works though. As long as it keeps voters from seeing the reality and continuing to vote Democrat, it's all good. Right? No matter the consequences.
I also want to share a blog where I found interesting and useful information on how to write a research paper at the university and how to compose all the necessary structural elements of the work so that it looks great - https://edubirdie.com/blog/research-paper-format Writing a research paper isn't all that difficult if you know where to start and what pitfalls you might run into.
And while we're at it, gotta love how liberals mock conservative comments on Marxism, socialism and communism as being some knee-jerk, panicked reaction that is overblown.

No. We're just looking at the large number of immigrants who fled countries where those philosophies exist, and we listen to their stories. And we put more stock in what they have to say, having experienced it, than what a bunch of privileged white liberals, who for some reason find those words sexy, say.

But again, it's just another sign of being out of touch with reality. Such things sound sexy to you because you don't live them. You live a life of privilege here in the USA. And feel guilty for it. So trying to decry it by tossing those words around makes you somehow feel better about yourself and seem oh so progressive.

Nope. Listen to the stories of these immigrants and it just shows you're out of touch. Plain and simple.



I absolutely agree with you. very deep thoughts that respond within me.
 
MaverickM11
Topic Author
Posts: 18742
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:38 pm

Agamadi wrote:
WrldTravlr65 wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:


It must be exhausting living in fear all the time. The right is in a constant state of panic and outrage. They’re terrified of an increasingly modern, diverse and complex world that they fail to grasp.


Panic, no.

This has nothing to do with being terrified of an "increasingly modern, diverse, and complex world." As cute as that sounds.

Outrage, yes.

From all of the dramatics, wokeisms, and cancel culture nonsense that is being foisted on this country from the left. It has become so ridiculous, in fact, that I have friends on both sides of the aisle who are done with it. My liberal friends were even starting to say, "enough is enough" when trees in Oregon were being called racist, and showing your work on math problems was a sign of white supremacy, or some stupid thing.

I think the best thing conservatives can do is continue to speak up against the nonsense but don't make any moves with regard to school policy on how things get taught by making it seem like they're minimizing slavery and racism as it has reared its head in this country. That is ridiculous.

Just let it rest; let the liberals continue to drop the anvils on their own feet because they truly are making themselves look ridiculous.

I truly believe that most Americans will be smart enough to see it for what it is. There will certainly be those who are sadly manipulated by the dramatics, but it's mainly a bunch of privileged white liberals and a media that narrates their ideologies that have proven themselves completely over the top who are behind it.

The best thing conservatives can do is instead of trying to overreact to it is just let it run its course. Let the liberals sink their own ship as we go into the midterms rather than giving them ammunition to deflect with.

The fact is, the liberal leaders can play down the increase in violence in liberal cities all they want by playing that childish card of 'Oh, look at these silly Republicans, panicking over this supposed escalation in violence in our cities.' They can ignore the fact by either not reporting that it is happening in the first place, or playing it down. It doesn't change the reality though. Liberals need to be trying to figure out how to change decades of decay in these cities they run, and the plight of black citizens living in those cities they've created, rather than worrying about all the wokeisms and cancel culture and what the other side of the aisle is doing. There is way too much to clean up on your side of the aisle.

And for those who continue with the Republican "panic" nonsense, I happen to live in CA where two of the most liberal cities in our country lie. LA and SF. And I have visited both of them in the past year. And they are literal and figurative toilets. Nothing being made up here for dramatics sake. I have relatives in NYC who say it's worse now than it was last time I visited them. And they're actually center/left.

As to this topic at hand though, no one will deny that slavery is a horrible part of our past, but slavery doesn't exist anymore.

Does racism exist? Yes there are racists in every part of this world. It doesn't make an entire country or group of people racists though.

It would seem this narrative went into overdrive with some incidents over the past year where a black person lost their lives at the hands of LEOs. Yet what isn't reported is that many, many, many more white people have also lost their lives at the hands of LEOs. The reporting has been selective to support a narrative that certain groups want to push. The pandemic was already bad enough, but getting people riled up with other narratives during, hmmm, an election year was especially provocative, wasn't it? Even though all the truths were never fully provided. Because reality would go against the narrative they were trying to push.

Recent decades have proven that in this country, even despite white privileged liberal attempts at telling black citizens that because of the color of their skin they won't be able to amount to much because white people will always be there to stand in their way so they must be taken care of by Democrats, blacks have still become President, Vice President, generals, mayors, congressmen and women, attorney generals, secretaries of state, police officers, attorneys, college professors, teachers, doctors. You name it. And they have been succeeding in many of these fields for a very long time.

You can keep throwing the dramatics and finger pointing at conservatives all you want, but in the end it is liberals who really need to be answering to black citizens who they have treated like children, just to get their vote. And trying to reinvent slavery in 2021 when it's the liberals who are treating blacks like they're not capable enough to take care of themselves through their messaging seems a little odd, doesn't it? Sounds like the 1800s south. And the fact they are doing it just to get their vote is reprehensible.

No. It's not panic. It's outrage. That a group of people that fall under an official political party in this country continue to mislead a group of Americans, keeping them from becoming what they truly can become. Watch Morgan Freeman's interview with Don Lemon some 6 or 7 years ago. He nails it.

And the increasing number of actual black conservatives are nailing it in their own way too.

These trite little deflections by liberals to minimize the message of conservatives is, well, cute. But they're never anything more than just fluff with nothing to back it up. Except dramatics and cute little talking points. Never reality. As long as it works though. As long as it keeps voters from seeing the reality and continuing to vote Democrat, it's all good. Right? No matter the consequences.
I also want to share a blog where I found interesting and useful information on how to write a research paper at the university and how to compose all the necessary structural elements of the work so that it looks great - https://edubirdie.com/blog/research-paper-format Writing a research paper isn't all that difficult if you know where to start and what pitfalls you might run into.
And while we're at it, gotta love how liberals mock conservative comments on Marxism, socialism and communism as being some knee-jerk, panicked reaction that is overblown.

No. We're just looking at the large number of immigrants who fled countries where those philosophies exist, and we listen to their stories. And we put more stock in what they have to say, having experienced it, than what a bunch of privileged white liberals, who for some reason find those words sexy, say.

But again, it's just another sign of being out of touch with reality. Such things sound sexy to you because you don't live them. You live a life of privilege here in the USA. And feel guilty for it. So trying to decry it by tossing those words around makes you somehow feel better about yourself and seem oh so progressive.

Nope. Listen to the stories of these immigrants and it just shows you're out of touch. Plain and simple.



I absolutely agree with you. very deep thoughts that respond within me.

The same type of "outrage" resulted in Alabama's yoga ban (recently dropped after THIRTY YEARS) and intelligent design. Remember intelligent design? It was neither. But conservatives were "outraged" that evolution was being taught.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 5147
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Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Tue Jul 27, 2021 2:54 pm

Anthro-Vision, a book by a woman anthropologist discussions life and business in terms of anthropology. She notes how tribalism, customs, and cultures in Africa worsened the Ebola epidemic, and was not made better by the tribalism, customs and cultures of the rich countries wanting to help. With the help of anthropologists and others in the social sciences modus operandi were devised respecting both cultures. While we want to pat ourselves on the back for our advanced culture it utterly failed in the US when Covid-19 hit. Medical and political figures noted that with best practices the US could limit its deaths to from 100K to 200K, and that if nothing was done it would be 2 million. The 700K who are likely to have died represents US culture at its worst. Superstition, tribal customs, anti-science convictions ruled. Critical Racial Theory can explain some of this. Not in terms of good or bad, but in terms of what are the cultures, prejudices and superstitions of the various US sub-cultures. My tribe is the highly educated, leftist, good incomes, stable life, lightly attached to religion (or not) whites. We interact poorly with other groups that share only most, let alone and few or none, of our attributes. We definitely have our superstitions and cultures, not all of which are admirable. From an anthropology/evolutionary point of view (mine) we are neither better nor worse than other tribal and sub-tribal cultures in the US.

ps - I really like the good things about my sub-culture, and feel only a little guilt about the bad things. pps - we all need to do a little better.
 
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PixelPilot
Posts: 713
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:19 am

Re: GOP advances bill to limit teaching of slavery and racism in classrooms

Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:37 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Anthro-Vision, a book by a woman anthropologist discussions life and business in terms of anthropology. She notes how tribalism, customs, and cultures in Africa worsened the Ebola epidemic, and was not made better by the tribalism, customs and cultures of the rich countries wanting to help. With the help of anthropologists and others in the social sciences modus operandi were devised respecting both cultures. While we want to pat ourselves on the back for our advanced culture it utterly failed in the US when Covid-19 hit. Medical and political figures noted that with best practices the US could limit its deaths to from 100K to 200K, and that if nothing was done it would be 2 million. The 700K who are likely to have died represents US culture at its worst. Superstition, tribal customs, anti-science convictions ruled. Critical Racial Theory can explain some of this. Not in terms of good or bad, but in terms of what are the cultures, prejudices and superstitions of the various US sub-cultures. My tribe is the highly educated, leftist, good incomes, stable life, lightly attached to religion (or not) whites. We interact poorly with other groups that share only most, let alone and few or none, of our attributes. We definitely have our superstitions and cultures, not all of which are admirable. From an anthropology/evolutionary point of view (mine) we are neither better nor worse than other tribal and sub-tribal cultures in the US.

ps - I really like the good things about my sub-culture, and feel only a little guilt about the bad things. pps - we all need to do a little better.


Tribalism usually doesn't accept authority higher than the tribe elder (or somebody in those lines) which is why it is the stalest or regressive actually type of social construct.
The color of your skin is of course meaningless as this behavior spans across all nations and races and dates millenniums but like the saying goes: "A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority."

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