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ArchGuy1
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Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Mon May 24, 2021 10:35 pm

On Sunday, a cable car in Northern Italy collapsed and 14 people were killed and there is a criminal investigation into manslaughter involving this incident. A car on the Stresa-Mottarone cable car from the Lido di Stresa on Lake Maggiore to Mottarone Mountain in the Piedmont region was nearly the completion of it's upward journey when a cable snapped. The car then crashed into a heavily wooded area with no direct road access. The only survivor is a five year old Israeli boy living in Northern Italy. Will be interesting to see what the results of the investigation are.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html
 
CRJockey
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Tue May 25, 2021 8:08 am

I know it might just be an accident. At some point it would be nice, though, if Italy would actively consider improving infrastructure to a level where not frequently major parts of it break, snap and bury people while doing so.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Tue May 25, 2021 8:51 am

It is certainly an accident, but maintenance on these is supposed to make accidents impossible.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
sbworcs
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Tue May 25, 2021 9:05 am

Tragic. Condolences to all impacted by this.

I went on this cable car in 2017 when visiting Stresa.

I too am interested to find out what went wrong - I did read somewhere that it had only re-opened a short while ago. Wonder is somethhing was inadvertantly missed in the pre-opening checks?
The best way forwards is upwards!
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Tue May 25, 2021 9:07 am

sbworcs wrote:
Tragic. Condolences to all impacted by this.

I went on this cable car in 2017 when visiting Stresa.

I too am interested to find out what went wrong - I did read somewhere that it had only re-opened a short while ago. Wonder is somethhing was inadvertantly missed in the pre-opening checks?


If the checks were done properly at all....
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aesma
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Tue May 25, 2021 10:18 am

In France on the national news they were showing the Pic du Midi telepherique to illustrate a similar system, man, don't take that one if you have a fear of heights.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Tue May 25, 2021 11:19 am

CRJockey wrote:
I know it might just be an accident. At some point it would be nice, though, if Italy would actively consider improving infrastructure to a level where not frequently major parts of it break, snap and bury people while doing so.


The last time I recall something happening like this in Italy it was caused by US Marine Corp jet flying too low and in restricted airspace cut the cables.
 
Zeppi
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Tue May 25, 2021 2:09 pm

sbworcs wrote:
I too am interested to find out what went wrong


While driving I listened a debate on the news in the radio in Germany on this, an expert familiar with the design of this type of cable car. He explained how the entire system works: There's a main pulley line and an emergency line, in case of any failure brakepads on top of the car will clamp onto the emergency line, arresting the car. He then went on explaining that during maintenance some sort of bracket is installed into these brakepads to prevent them from activation while work is being done on them. His suggestion: Possibly someone forgot to remove said bracket after maintenance.
Would be even more tragic than it already is if such a neglect would be determined to be a major contributing factor, of course it can't be the single cause as something else must have happened too, but this would have eliminated the only safeguard.

Sorry, no further source on this yet it seems, but I'm sure other media will pick it up soon.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Tue May 25, 2021 5:20 pm

Zeppi wrote:
sbworcs wrote:
I too am interested to find out what went wrong


While driving I listened a debate on the news in the radio in Germany on this, an expert familiar with the design of this type of cable car. He explained how the entire system works: There's a main pulley line and an emergency line, in case of any failure brakepads on top of the car will clamp onto the emergency line, arresting the car. He then went on explaining that during maintenance some sort of bracket is installed into these brakepads to prevent them from activation while work is being done on them. His suggestion: Possibly someone forgot to remove said bracket after maintenance.
Would be even more tragic than it already is if such a neglect would be determined to be a major contributing factor, of course it can't be the single cause as something else must have happened too, but this would have eliminated the only safeguard.

Sorry, no further source on this yet it seems, but I'm sure other media will pick it up soon.

Why is it that these type of accidents often result in no survivors or only one survivor on the particular car that falls?
 
johns624
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Tue May 25, 2021 7:34 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
I know it might just be an accident. At some point it would be nice, though, if Italy would actively consider improving infrastructure to a level where not frequently major parts of it break, snap and bury people while doing so.


The last time I recall something happening like this in Italy it was caused by US Marine Corp jet flying too low and in restricted airspace cut the cables.
I believe that he was referring to the Milan bridge collapse but you can sleep better tonight since you got your obligatory anti-US post in for the day.
https://6abc.com/us--world-italy-bridge ... y%20150%20
 
CRJockey
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Tue May 25, 2021 8:21 pm

johns624 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
I know it might just be an accident. At some point it would be nice, though, if Italy would actively consider improving infrastructure to a level where not frequently major parts of it break, snap and bury people while doing so.


The last time I recall something happening like this in Italy it was caused by US Marine Corp jet flying too low and in restricted airspace cut the cables.
I believe that he was referring to the Milan bridge collapse but you can sleep better tonight since you got your obligatory anti-US post in for the day.
https://6abc.com/us--world-italy-bridge ... y%20150%20


Genova bridge, other than that, yes.
 
CRJockey
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Tue May 25, 2021 8:22 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
I know it might just be an accident. At some point it would be nice, though, if Italy would actively consider improving infrastructure to a level where not frequently major parts of it break, snap and bury people while doing so.


The last time I recall something happening like this in Italy it was caused by US Marine Corp jet flying too low and in restricted airspace cut the cables.


Well, I didn’t write cable car, but infrastructure. I did so deliberately.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Wed May 26, 2021 6:38 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Zeppi wrote:
sbworcs wrote:
I too am interested to find out what went wrong


While driving I listened a debate on the news in the radio in Germany on this, an expert familiar with the design of this type of cable car. He explained how the entire system works: There's a main pulley line and an emergency line, in case of any failure brakepads on top of the car will clamp onto the emergency line, arresting the car. He then went on explaining that during maintenance some sort of bracket is installed into these brakepads to prevent them from activation while work is being done on them. His suggestion: Possibly someone forgot to remove said bracket after maintenance.
Would be even more tragic than it already is if such a neglect would be determined to be a major contributing factor, of course it can't be the single cause as something else must have happened too, but this would have eliminated the only safeguard.

Sorry, no further source on this yet it seems, but I'm sure other media will pick it up soon.

Why is it that these type of accidents often result in no survivors or only one survivor on the particular car that falls?


Well that's called gravity. Maybe some airbags could be added but their effectiveness would be limited. If the gondola is 350m above ground, you'd need a parachute or retrorockets to have a chance.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Wed May 26, 2021 7:36 am

johns624 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
I know it might just be an accident. At some point it would be nice, though, if Italy would actively consider improving infrastructure to a level where not frequently major parts of it break, snap and bury people while doing so.


The last time I recall something happening like this in Italy it was caused by US Marine Corp jet flying too low and in restricted airspace cut the cables.
I believe that he was referring to the Milan bridge collapse but you can sleep better tonight since you got your obligatory anti-US post in for the day.
https://6abc.com/us--world-italy-bridge ... y%20150%20


I think the poster was talking about cable car crash. This is the incident in question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalese_ ... ster_(1998)
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Wed May 26, 2021 8:42 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Zeppi wrote:
sbworcs wrote:
I too am interested to find out what went wrong


While driving I listened a debate on the news in the radio in Germany on this, an expert familiar with the design of this type of cable car. He explained how the entire system works: There's a main pulley line and an emergency line, in case of any failure brakepads on top of the car will clamp onto the emergency line, arresting the car. He then went on explaining that during maintenance some sort of bracket is installed into these brakepads to prevent them from activation while work is being done on them. His suggestion: Possibly someone forgot to remove said bracket after maintenance.
Would be even more tragic than it already is if such a neglect would be determined to be a major contributing factor, of course it can't be the single cause as something else must have happened too, but this would have eliminated the only safeguard.

Sorry, no further source on this yet it seems, but I'm sure other media will pick it up soon.

Why is it that these type of accidents often result in no survivors or only one survivor on the particular car that falls?


Why? The physics of blunt force trauma. You did see the condition of the car in the pictures, yes?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Zeppi
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:35 pm

Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Wed May 26, 2021 9:22 am

Adding on to what was on the radio yesterday, German news broadcaster NTV just released this story:

https://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Drei-Festn ... 76488.html

Short summary:

- The bracket that is supposed to stop the brakes from engaging during maintenance seems to have been left installed intentionally, as the system malfunctioned a few times over the last couple of weeks causing the car to get stuck. That way it was impossible for this particular car to enable its emergency brakes. The emergency brakes worked fine on all other cars when the main pulley snapped.

- Three detained by police: The owner, the technical director and the maintenance guy

- Why the main pulley snapped is still not known, investigations still under way

Wow, just wow... What a brilliant idea to disable safeguards in order to assure smooth operation...

Story picked up by The Guardian in english now too: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... rosecutors
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Wed May 26, 2021 11:57 am

A report that the cable car was travelling at over 60mph just before it crashed, amazing anyone survived.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
johns624
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Wed May 26, 2021 12:36 pm

seansasLCY wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

The last time I recall something happening like this in Italy it was caused by US Marine Corp jet flying too low and in restricted airspace cut the cables.
I believe that he was referring to the Milan bridge collapse but you can sleep better tonight since you got your obligatory anti-US post in for the day.
https://6abc.com/us--world-italy-bridge ... y%20150%20


I think the poster was talking about cable car crash. This is the incident in question https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalese_ ... ster_(1998)

I knew exactly what he, and the poster he responded to, were referencing. I also know he never misses an opportunity to blame the US for everything.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Wed May 26, 2021 12:57 pm

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wi ... e-77910900

They have arrested 3 people in Italy over this. The story has more info on what happened, backing up earlier stories down thread.

Prosecutor Olimpia Bossi hypothesized that the operators of the sightseeing funicular, which had reopened after a wintertime COVID-19 closure, used the jerry-rigged clamp to avoid having to shut the attraction for the more extensive, “radical" repairs that were necessary.

Bossi said it still wasn't clear why the lead cable broke or whether it was related to the brake problem. But she said that the intentional deactivation of the brake, done several times over recent weeks for a persistent problem, prevented the brake from doing its job when the cable snapped.

After the lead cable broke Sunday, the cabin reeled back down the line until it hit the pylon and pulled off entirely. It crashed to the ground and rolled over down the mountainside until it came to rest against some trees. Fourteen people were killed; the lone survivor, a 5-year-old boy, remains hospitalized.


So the emergency brake that would have saved them was disabled for convenience. How Horrible.

Carabinieri Lt. Col. Alberto Cicognani said at least one of the three people questioned overnight admitted to what happened. He said the fork-shaped clamp had been placed on the emergency brake to deactivate it because the brake was engaging spontaneously and preventing the funicular from working.

The cable car line reopened April 26 and was bringing sightseers to the top of the Mottarone peak overlooking Lake Maggiore on the first sunny Sunday since then. The jerry-rigged clamp was still in place on the brake Sunday morning, Cicognani said, citing information gleaned from the suspects themselves.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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Aesma
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Wed May 26, 2021 1:43 pm

I wonder if the engagement of the brake in previous weeks wasn't the cause of the eventual snapping of the traction cable.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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casinterest
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Wed May 26, 2021 1:54 pm

Aesma wrote:
I wonder if the engagement of the brake in previous weeks wasn't the cause of the eventual snapping of the traction cable.


This has all the signs of ignored maintenance/safety measures in the name of profit. I am sure there are going to be multiple causes. Perhaps the brake was having issues since the cable was already under stress/snapped strands. These cables are not one solid piece. They are wound with hundreds of steel strands that form the cable.

I watched a documentary of the Whistler-Blackcomb Peak to Peak Gondola installation for the 2010 Olympics, and because one of the emergency clamps was too tight during training, they managed to damage a few strands of the cable.

The pertinent issue starts at the timestamp below.

https://youtu.be/xEAJmxe27h0?t=1975
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
CRJockey
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Wed May 26, 2021 3:09 pm

Aesma wrote:
I wonder if the engagement of the brake in previous weeks wasn't the cause of the eventual snapping of the traction cable.


Agree, sounds possible.

All in all things unfold as typically in Italy, sorry to say. Something between criminal negligence and intentional carelessness leads to loss of life and as the ignorance is so obvious, it is easy and quick to find the key responsibles.

All quite sad.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Wed May 26, 2021 7:09 pm

sbworcs wrote:
Tragic. Condolences to all impacted by this.

I went on this cable car in 2017 when visiting Stresa.

I too am interested to find out what went wrong - I did read somewhere that it had only re-opened a short while ago. Wonder is somethhing was inadvertantly missed in the pre-opening checks?

What was it like riding this particular cable car and what were the views like at the top.
 
sbworcs
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Thu May 27, 2021 6:38 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
What was it like riding this particular cable car and what were the views like at the top.


When we did it it was fine - I am not a lover of cable cars but was with family and friends that had been on it before. When we did it it was two sections - you do the first part to (I presume) about half way where you can get off and walk round then there is a secon section to take you further up

The views from the top were beautiful!

There is also an alpine "roller-coaster" futher up that you can access (https://www.alpyland.com/en/) but we did not do this - wonder if they are owned by the same people - regardless I would imagine they will be impacted by the closure - you can access by road but not sure that many people do.

We have booked flights to go back next year to Stresa but will probably drive up next time.
The best way forwards is upwards!
 
SRQLOT
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Thu May 27, 2021 6:56 am

Terrible that everyone in there were only fleet away from getting off it!!
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717 733/7/8/9/M8 744 752/3 763 772 788 319/20/21 332/3 M90 RJ85 CR9 Q400 E70/75/95 (PA28,152)
 
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DL717
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:46 pm

Funny. It only took one pandemic for those who argue endlessly about natural selection to stop believing in natural selection.
 
FGITD
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:52 pm

DL717 wrote:


Absolutely horrifying.

Fair warning to anyone who clicks the link, the faces are blurred, but when watching this-you will get a close up view of a cable car full of people about to die.
 
BlueberryWheats
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:13 pm

I regret watching that. That's unspeakably horrendous, they were so close to disembarking.
The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut.
 
ArchGuy1
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Re: Cable Car Collapses in Italy

Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:16 pm

BlueberryWheats wrote:
I regret watching that. That's unspeakably horrendous, they were so close to disembarking.

This video I am sure will be used as evidence in the upcoming court case for the three people arrested for the accident. Also will be used in future safety videos for cable car operations.

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