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NIKV69 wrote:I like it. I mean the criminals don't have to have a license right?
petertenthije wrote:NIKV69 wrote:I like it. I mean the criminals don't have to have a license right?
If that's your best argument, you might as well make everything legal.
Drugs abuse? No problems, if criminals do it, so can you!
Theft? No problems, if criminals do it, so can you!
Murder? No problems, if criminals do it, so can you!
TangoandCash wrote:As a recently escaped Texan, I find it a bit crazy and over the top. While I'm all for responsible gun ownership, use, and even carry, letting anyone strap a handgun on and walk the streets is a bit much. The Texas concealed carry license requirements of classroom training and a shooting test, IMHO, should be required for all gun owners. A reminder of the responsibilities and legalities of gun use/carry/ownership and a basic shooting test at the range, if you can't pass that you shouldn't own a gun.
Yes, I know criminals won't take classes or get licenses, but I've seen how Texans behave. Easier access to firearms is probably not the solution to any of that state's problems.
petertenthije wrote:NIKV69 wrote:I like it. I mean the criminals don't have to have a license right?
If that's your best argument, you might as well make everything legal.
Drugs abuse? No problems, if criminals do it, so can you!
Theft? No problems, if criminals do it, so can you!
Murder? No problems, if criminals do it, so can you!
johns624 wrote:For all that are aghast at this--the liberal bastion of Vermont has always allowed carry without a license. That must be why there are daily shootouts in downtown Rutland...
extender wrote:I'm not a fan of OC either, but this mainly concerns concealed carry. The one benefit of a law allowing OC, is that it takes away the the crime of "brandishing" if your gun is accidentally exposed, such as when reaching for something overhead or bending over to pick something up.Not a fan of open carry, but it is better than no carry. As johns624 pointed out, its been allowed in Vermont, so unwind the knickers.
Aaron747 wrote:Mental health and shootings really only relate when it comes to mass shootings, which are actually a rarity. By "mass shootings", I mean incidents like Columbine, Aurora and Boulder, not the latest media ploy where if 2 or more are shot, it's included. The main reason for shootings are gang or criminal related. Vermont doesn't have much crime.johns624 wrote:For all that are aghast at this--the liberal bastion of Vermont has always allowed carry without a license. That must be why there are daily shootouts in downtown Rutland...
Vermont is one of the 13 states with the best access to mental health care. Texas is middle of the pack at 30th. Just puttin that out there.
https://www.mhanational.org/issues/ranking-states
Vermont is also ranked 43rd in prevalence of mental illness while Texas is 3rd.
johns624 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:Mental health and shootings really only relate when it comes to mass shootings, which are actually a rarity. By "mass shootings", I mean incidents like Columbine, Aurora and Boulder, not the latest media ploy where if 2 or more are shot, it's included. The main reason for shootings are gang or criminal related. Vermont doesn't have much crime.johns624 wrote:For all that are aghast at this--the liberal bastion of Vermont has always allowed carry without a license. That must be why there are daily shootouts in downtown Rutland...
Vermont is one of the 13 states with the best access to mental health care. Texas is middle of the pack at 30th. Just puttin that out there.
https://www.mhanational.org/issues/ranking-states
Vermont is also ranked 43rd in prevalence of mental illness while Texas is 3rd.
johns624 wrote:For all that are aghast at this--the liberal bastion of Vermont has always allowed carry without a license. That must be why there are daily shootouts in downtown Rutland...
johns624 wrote:For all that are aghast at this--the liberal bastion of Vermont has always allowed carry without a license. That must be why there are daily shootouts in downtown Rutland...
Aesma wrote:johns624 wrote:For all that are aghast at this--the liberal bastion of Vermont has always allowed carry without a license. That must be why there are daily shootouts in downtown Rutland...
Is it practiced ?
johns624 wrote:For all that are aghast at this--the liberal bastion of Vermont has always allowed carry without a license. That must be why there are daily shootouts in downtown Rutland...
FGITD wrote:Aesma wrote:johns624 wrote:For all that are aghast at this--the liberal bastion of Vermont has always allowed carry without a license. That must be why there are daily shootouts in downtown Rutland...
Is it practiced ?
Vermont is a weird place. Cross between a modern hippy paradise and rural America. Very much a live and let live state.
But one major difference is that it's one of the most highly educated states in the country, and also lacks the urban areas that other states have
seb146 wrote:FGITD wrote:Aesma wrote:
Is it practiced ?
Vermont is a weird place. Cross between a modern hippy paradise and rural America. Very much a live and let live state.
But one major difference is that it's one of the most highly educated states in the country, and also lacks the urban areas that other states have
So maybe we should be comparing apples to apples? What is another state with a large population, lower education, higher crime, lower health care standards? Florida? Idaho? Alaska? Montana?
extender wrote:Not a fan of open carry, but it is better than no carry. As johns624 pointed out, its been allowed in Vermont, so unwind the knickers.
NIKV69 wrote:I like it. I mean the criminals don't have to have a license right?
LMP737 wrote:NIKV69 wrote:I like it. I mean the criminals don't have to have a license right?
Well then I guess you are okay with doing away with any sort of licensing for driving a car. How about doing away with the CDL ? After all, if you don't have to show basic competency for a gun, then why should you have to show one for a car or a big rig?
Max Q wrote:Wrong. Criminals (the people who do 99+% of the shootings) already carry guns.More guns, more shootings
Pretty simple
johns624 wrote:Max Q wrote:Wrong. Criminals (the people who do 99+% of the shootings) already carry guns.More guns, more shootings
Pretty simple
They don't care about no stinking license.
PS--Why do so many people seem to think that owning a gun suddenly makes people irrational?
LabQuest wrote:This is good for minorities and those with low income to be able to practice their constitutional right without the current financial and paperwork loopholes they often can't afford or complete.
johns624 wrote:Max Q wrote:Wrong. Criminals (the people who do 99+% of the shootings) already carry guns.More guns, more shootings
Pretty simple
They don't care about no stinking license.
PS--Why do so many people seem to think that owning a gun suddenly makes people irrational?
johns624 wrote:seb146 wrote:FGITD wrote:
Vermont is a weird place. Cross between a modern hippy paradise and rural America. Very much a live and let live state.
But one major difference is that it's one of the most highly educated states in the country, and also lacks the urban areas that other states have
So maybe we should be comparing apples to apples? What is another state with a large population, lower education, higher crime, lower health care standards? Florida? Idaho? Alaska? Montana?
So you're saying that only educated people should be able to own guns? Also, states are not homogenous. You have pockets of highly educated people in every state, along with pockets with poorly educated and rundown areas.
CometII wrote:
Perhaps you could do reading a book on basic psychology: the more "power" you consider yourself to have, the more aggressive you become when confronted with adverse or unpleasant situations, or in general.
seb146 wrote:They also don't normally tend to live in rough neighborhoods.Highly educated people do not need to open carry, either. Highly educated people are not so insecure they do not need to scream about their guns all the time either.
johns624 wrote:Nice post, but irrelevant. Law abiding citizens have been carrying guns, both concealed and openly, for many decades. Show me the stats on all the crimes and murders they've committed while carrying legally. According to you, there should be multitudes of them.
petertenthije wrote:Once again, where are the stats? If a CPL holder committed crimes with it, it would make the headlines and be on the evening news. Use links to support your position. If you don't have any, don't argue.
The problem starts when someone legally acquires a gun, has the permit to carry one on the street (be it concealed or open)... and then goes cuckoo and kills someone with his legally acquired gun.
johns624 wrote:petertenthije wrote:Once again, where are the stats? If a CPL holder committed crimes with it, it would make the headlines and be on the evening news. Use links to support your position. If you don't have any, don't argue.
The problem starts when someone legally acquires a gun, has the permit to carry one on the street (be it concealed or open)... and then goes cuckoo and kills someone with his legally acquired gun.
Here's the latest Michigan stats. There are approximately 500,000 CPL licencees in the state.
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/ ... 1670_7.pdf There were 470+ murders in Michigan last year. Two were committed by CPL holders. One out of 20 Michiganians has a CPL. That means that a CPL holder is many times less likely to kill someone than the average citizen.
https://www.roadsnacks.net/these-are-th ... -michigan/
slider wrote:
Moreover, the left and anti-2A brigade neve acknowledges the number of crimes prevented by firearms owners. Guns PREVENT 2.5M crimes a year and an estimated 400k life threatening crimes.
https://fee.org/articles/guns-prevent-t ... 20firearms.
johns624 wrote:Use links to support your position. If you don't have any, don't argue.
johns624 wrote:seb146 wrote:They also don't normally tend to live in rough neighborhoods.Highly educated people do not need to open carry, either. Highly educated people are not so insecure they do not need to scream about their guns all the time either.
seb146 wrote:johns624 wrote:seb146 wrote:They also don't normally tend to live in rough neighborhoods.Highly educated people do not need to open carry, either. Highly educated people are not so insecure they do not need to scream about their guns all the time either.
Gun crimes are not limited by income or address.
johns624 wrote:Max Q wrote:Wrong. Criminals (the people who do 99+% of the shootings) already carry guns.More guns, more shootings
Pretty simple
They don't care about no stinking license.
PS--Why do so many people seem to think that owning a gun suddenly makes people irrational?
johns624 wrote:CometII wrote:
Perhaps you could do reading a book on basic psychology: the more "power" you consider yourself to have, the more aggressive you become when confronted with adverse or unpleasant situations, or in general.
Nice post, but irrelevant. Law abiding citizens have been carrying guns, both concealed and openly, for many decades. Show me the stats on all the crimes and murders they've committed while carrying legally. According to you, there should be multitudes of them.
GalaxyFlyer wrote:seb146 wrote:johns624 wrote:They also don't normally tend to live in rough neighborhoods.
Gun crimes are not limited by income or address.
Not true, 55% of all gun murders are perpetrated by 5% of the population. Murders are restricted to a very few zip codes. In the year of Floyd, there were 4,475 more murders, any guess on the perps? That’s greater than all the lynchings in US history.
DiamondFlyer wrote:The funny thing is, the anti-gunners want to talk about "common sense" regulations to do something, every time there is a mass shooting. And their solution is always some sort of Assault Weapons ban. However, if they want to have a serious discussion about "common sense" regulations, the place to start is handguns. Something like 96% of firearm deaths are from handguns.
Permitless carry is hardly new in many states. The sky is falling types here don't get that, but then again, they probably think that the major cities are all that matters in this country.