Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
sbworcs
Topic Author
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:19 pm

Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sun May 30, 2021 6:38 pm

Have started new thread as this is separate from the the missile / rocket discussion

BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-57301075 are reporing that one of the right wing parties are backing a deal that would see Benjamin Netanyahu being ousted from office?

Will this have a postive impact on the region or likely to cause more issues in the long run - one comment from Netanyahu (with no further elaboraton) "the approach was a danger for the security of Israel"

Is it jus time for change and see if things do improve?
The best way forwards is upwards!
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 26329
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sun May 30, 2021 7:34 pm

I don't visit non-av much, but finding "Trouble for Trump" and "Possibly the end of Nethanyahu" as the two top threads in non-av brought a bit of joy to my heart.

I'd say to both of them, "don't let the door hit you in the backside on the way out!".
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14330
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sun May 30, 2021 8:51 pm

Revelation wrote:
I don't visit non-av much.


:spit:

sbworcs wrote:
Will this have a postive impact on the region or likely to cause more issues in the long run - one comment from Netanyahu (with no further elaboraton) "the approach was a danger for the security of Israel"

Is it jus time for change and see if things do improve?


Hard to say but the region is on the brink of all out war so the timing for this is kind of bad. If they are successful in ousting Bibi they will be tested by the Arab world who wants them out of the region.
90 Day Fiancé has taught me that Russian woman are excellent.
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1898
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sun May 30, 2021 9:36 pm

This Israel-Palestine conflict has been going on forever, but is this the first time we've seen this level of dissent within Israel?
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 2306
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sun May 30, 2021 11:33 pm

I doubt this will lead the way to solving the Israel-Palestine conflict.

Ousting Bibi is fine and dandy but what's most important is the man coming in to replace him. If it's Bennett, who has been on the record opposing an independent Palestine, then it's a case of meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2836
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Mon May 31, 2021 5:38 am

Replacing a far-right with an ultra far-right PM doesn't seem like a recipe for success. In any case, Israeli politics have been a basket case for the better part of half a century, and currently no coalition is able to be formed without the involvement of the ultra-orthodox element You know, the ones who don't work, don't take part in the defence of Israel but commit their lives to suck on the government tit whilst studying the book, making as many babies as possible and wearing plastic bin bags when departing Ben Gurion.

Still, the Tel Aviv nightlife is absolutely top-notch!
Signature. You just read one.
 
santi319
Posts: 1128
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Mon May 31, 2021 6:11 am

Good, hopefully he is also condemned for war crimes.
 
JJJ
Posts: 4071
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Mon May 31, 2021 6:16 am

phatfarmlines wrote:
This Israel-Palestine conflict has been going on forever, but is this the first time we've seen this level of dissent within Israel?


Israel has a terribly complicated political landscape. 10-15 different political groups at any given time (in turn formed by smaller parties), with the most important barely making above 20% vote.

Making a government is always a major political engineering feat, with parties forming and breaking alliances all the time.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15716
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Mon May 31, 2021 3:17 pm

JJJ wrote:
phatfarmlines wrote:
This Israel-Palestine conflict has been going on forever, but is this the first time we've seen this level of dissent within Israel?

Israel has a terribly complicated political landscape. 10-15 different political groups at any given time (in turn formed by smaller parties), with the most important barely making above 20% vote.
Making a government is always a major political engineering feat, with parties forming and breaking alliances all the time.


Israel's multi-part government has often meant collations that involve the ultra-religious and land expansionist ones That means governments that are extorted with demands like no bus service, most businesses closed on Friday night into Saturday, keeping religious control of civil matters like marriage of Jewish persons that many secular ones despise as well as continuing taking land and properties from Palestinians and Gazans. Many Israeli citizens are tired of being in a war status for over 70 years, spending billions on it, the fears of terrorism, bomb, missile. As to Netanyahu, if he is out of power, then he could face jail for corruption and like Trump will say it is all politics to let someone take over the PM's slot. Its a shame a more moderate, non-expansionist government can't come into power but it is decades too late for the Palestinians and they are angry and even if to ever be an independent country, Israel has so deeply has entwined it with settlements in it, control of Jerusalem that it won't work. So, terrorism will continue to Israel, Israel will send missiles back and the hate continues.
 
LCDFlight
Posts: 1095
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Mon May 31, 2021 9:25 pm

Israel has a very great deal to lose with respect to US politics. They would be stunned how much they can lose.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10821
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Mon May 31, 2021 9:55 pm

Even if they oust the current PM, how long will it be before the new coalition fails, is tested by their enemies resulting in a new coalition with the ousted PM?
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 3601
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Mon May 31, 2021 10:47 pm

I just don't see the coalition last long - for a US equivalent you are talking about a coalition between the far-right white supremacist, moderates like GOP old timer, and more central-left Dems like Biden.

Bibi needs to go, but it is true that there will be a power vacuum. Perhaps fuck all this and just make Abbas the PM.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10821
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:46 pm

The more important question from a historical point of view is how he was able to hold coalitions together for so long, especially when there were so many of them and their views and opinions so varied.
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 7968
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:41 pm

Seems to me the only way to get stuff done in Israel is by compromise, but neither party has been willing, so they will be at this forever.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13564
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:33 pm

Bye Bye Bibi?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/02/middleea ... index.html

Looks like the enemy of my enemy coalition,

Wonder how long it will last? will it be enough to enact some change ?


In a historic moment, the small Islamist party United Arab List also decided to join the coalition, the first time an Arab-Israeli party has joined a coalition. The party is unlikely to have a minister in the government, but will have negotiated with the coalition on issues important to them.
Not much unites the parties other than their desire to oust Netanyahu, and the parties differ in their stances on some of the country's most pressing issues, especially relations with the Palestinians.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
entdoc
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:15 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:40 am

zakuivcustom wrote:
I just don't see the coalition last long - for a US equivalent you are talking about a coalition between the far-right white supremacist, moderates like GOP old timer, and more central-left Dems like Biden.

Bibi needs to go, but it is true that there will be a power vacuum. Perhaps fuck all this and just make Abbas the PM.

Sure and kiss Israel goodbye. Fair chance someone associated with him will serve as a mole for hamas and pij


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15045
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:46 am

entdoc wrote:
zakuivcustom wrote:
I just don't see the coalition last long - for a US equivalent you are talking about a coalition between the far-right white supremacist, moderates like GOP old timer, and more central-left Dems like Biden.

Bibi needs to go, but it is true that there will be a power vacuum. Perhaps fuck all this and just make Abbas the PM.

Sure and kiss Israel goodbye. Fair chance someone associated with him will serve as a mole for hamas and pij


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't worry, if you like Bibi, you'll love Bennett.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
entdoc
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:15 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:53 am

Israel's multi-part government has often meant collations that involve the ultra-religious and land expansionist ones That means governments that are extorted with demands like no bus service, most businesses closed on Friday night into Saturday, keeping religious control of civil matters like marriage of Jewish persons that many secular ones despise


True about the coalitions and their extortion.

But show us any neighboring country where civil matters are NOT in the control of their religions authorities.

Or if citizens of that state who marry civilly out of that state are recognized as married by that state. (In Israel they are).

Or where couples of differing preferences while frowned on by religious authorities can express those preferences freely in public. (In Israel they can)

Or where a food or drink forbidden by that state’s religion can be freely consumed IN PUBLIC by tourists AND BY THE STATES CITIZENS (again in Israel it can be).

Why is it ok for 22 states to be officially based on a certain religion and for the uk to be officially based on COE. And other countries with an official state religion of another type.

But the world chokes at the idea of one tiny state based on the Jewish religion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15045
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:11 am

entdoc wrote:
Israel's multi-part government has often meant collations that involve the ultra-religious and land expansionist ones That means governments that are extorted with demands like no bus service, most businesses closed on Friday night into Saturday, keeping religious control of civil matters like marriage of Jewish persons that many secular ones despise


True about the coalitions and their extortion.

But show us any neighboring country where civil matters are NOT in the control of their religions authorities.

Or if citizens of that state who marry civilly out of that state are recognized as married by that state. (In Israel they are).

Or where couples of differing preferences while frowned on by religious authorities can express those preferences freely in public. (In Israel they can)

Or where a food or drink forbidden by that state’s religion can be freely consumed IN PUBLIC by tourists AND BY THE STATES CITIZENS (again in Israel it can be).

Why is it ok for 22 states to be officially based on a certain religion and for the uk to be officially based on COE. And other countries with an official state religion of another type.

But the world chokes at the idea of one tiny state based on the Jewish religion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's a narrative borne of persecution complex and it's false. Comparing to other theocratic regimes in the region is pointless because they're all different (Jordan is not Saudi Arabia is not Iran - aside from Hezbollah what do life in Lebanon and Iran have in common? C'mon). It does not absolve Israel of the absurdity of the Orthodoxy or the religious "courts". Those are Israeli issues to be resolved to the satisfaction of Israelis - including secular ones, which are only growing in number as the hypocrisy continues.

The world's criticism of Israel is because of political issues around occupation, the vast majority has nothing to do with antisemitism. Its newsworthy when it's based on that because it's rare enough. Most of the American Jews I know feel the same way I do.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
THS214
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:01 pm

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:11 am

A great Finnish satirist wrote: Are the Jews of Israel in danger now that far right has the power in the country? How could anything like this happen in 2021. Hasn't we yet learned from Hitler?
 
entdoc
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:15 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:23 am

The world's criticism of Israel is because of political issues around occupation, the vast majority has nothing to do with antisemitism.

Beg to differ. Growing antisemitism worldwide US included.
And most blame their actions on their dislike of Israeli politics.

You disagree with Israeli policy fine. But why attack a Jew in NY who may have nothing to do with Israel and say it’s because you disagree with Israeli policy.

And yes my thoughts do come from persecution. The entire history o the Jewish people and religion has been one of persecution. From Egypt to Babylon to Rome to Crusaders to Islam to inquisition to Germany and more.

Those who will not learn from history will be doomed to relive it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15045
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:40 am

entdoc wrote:
The world's criticism of Israel is because of political issues around occupation, the vast majority has nothing to do with antisemitism.

Beg to differ. Growing antisemitism worldwide US included.
And most blame their actions on their dislike of Israeli politics.

You disagree with Israeli policy fine. But why attack a Jew in NY who may have nothing to do with Israel and say it’s because you disagree with Israeli policy.

And yes my thoughts do come from persecution. The entire history o the Jewish people and religion has been one of persecution. From Egypt to Babylon to Rome to Crusaders to Islam to inquisition to Germany and more.

Those who will not learn from history will be doomed to relive it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Growing antisemitism does not equal 'the vast majority' - not by a longshot. And I have no idea why you're bringing up the recent attacks in NYC - those have been roundly condemned by left, right, Jews, and non-Jews here in America (my cousin's boss in Brooklyn was attacked, I should add). Nobody serious is saying they were a good thing. You'll be glad to know the NY Hate Crimes Unit is on the case and has already arrested several people for assault and arson.

Those who will not learn from history will be doomed to relive it.

Becoming the monster to defeat the monster is a classic exercise in self deception and bankrupt morality.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
entdoc
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:15 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:54 am

Becoming the monster to defeat the monster is a classic exercise in self deception and bankrupt morality.[/quote]

I don’t consider Israel a monster like you do. I don’t agree with all its actions but I do see a need to act out of self preservation at times.

The first Jews the Germans came for were the ones who acted the most German.

When the Arabs finally overran Israel one of the first Jews they took to execute was the diehard anti Zionist pro Arab leftist. “but why me” he cried. “I was always on your side!”

Replied the Arab executioner “Yes you were. But we trust you even less than the other Jews because you sold them out”.

Hope you never have to learn the hard way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15045
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:13 am

entdoc wrote:

I don’t consider Israel a monster like you do. I don’t agree with all its actions but I do see a need to act out of self preservation at times.


Anyone who bombs children knowingly is a monster. Pretty hard line in the sand there, I don't care who's doing it. Nobody chooses where they were born or to whom.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
entdoc
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:15 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:57 am

Well Israel totally pulled out of Gaza. Left hothouses and other enterprises that were totally destroyed because of Pali hatred of Israel and their charter
If they had not shot then no embargo on Gaza and the locals may actually flourish.

ISRAEL NEVER STARTED THIS ROCKET WAR.

what would you do if your neighbors shot rockets at you for zero reason other than pure hatred????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15045
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:05 am

entdoc wrote:
Well Israel totally pulled out of Gaza. Left hothouses and other enterprises that were totally destroyed because of Pali hatred of Israel and their charter
If they had not shot then no embargo on Gaza and the locals may actually flourish.

ISRAEL NEVER STARTED THIS ROCKET WAR.

what would you do if your neighbors shot rockets at you for zero reason other than pure hatred????


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Moving the goalposts. I'm talking about killing kids being wrong, not 'who started it'. That's playground nonsense. War is a failure of imagination and willingness to problem-solve by adults.

Our last three Presidents have been helping 'allies' kill kids in Yemen and AG with drones far longer than that. I'm not claiming my country is angelic, FYI.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
c933103
Posts: 5556
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:19 pm

First, government formed as a coalition across political spectrum to jointly oppose something rarely last long aftet the thing they commonly oppose go away, according to history of the world, especially as you can see in places like Japan or Malaysia, on in wartime countries, due to emerging difference between them whenever they want to actually get anything done.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
Fitting foreign event into local context for lessons will only be able to tell local values instead of foreign ones
You're now at your youngest moment in your remaining life
 
GDB
Posts: 14259
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:11 am

From a British Jewish correspondent, so as not to maybe incur claims of antisemitism;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... e-minister

Just to recall the frankly vile way he incited his way to power;
Witness how the Netanyahu era is ending – apparently – just as it began: in blood-curdling incitement. In late 1995, then opposition leader Netanyahu stood before rallies that denounced the would-be peacemaker Yitzhak Rabin as a traitor, with doctored images depicting him as a Palestinian terrorist or Nazi SS officer. The head of Israel’s internal security agency went to see Netanyahu, urging him to calm things down. Netanyahu refused and, before long, Rabin was dead, slain by a Jewish extremist. Now some of the same images are being deployed against Bennett.

Interesting, I can recommend the documentary The Gatekeepers, made of up the veterans of Israel's intelligence and security services, not only recounting their history but also their deep concern at how Israel's policies now are undermining the fabric of the nation as well as doing nothing for it's security, quite the opposite in fact. Seems they tried to warn Netanyahu of the consequences of the above, he went ahead anyway, what's the assassination of an Israeli PM and all that followed against his rise to power?

That's who he is, not just massively corrupt.
 
entdoc
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:15 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:34 am

Rabbi Jonathan Sacks on Israel...
negotiable

https://youtu.be/MIoZvHU3wwg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
T4thH
Posts: 1239
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:17 pm

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:03 am

GDB wrote:
From a British Jewish correspondent, so as not to maybe incur claims of antisemitism;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... e-minister

Just to recall the frankly vile way he incited his way to power;
Witness how the Netanyahu era is ending – apparently – just as it began: in blood-curdling incitement. In late 1995, then opposition leader Netanyahu stood before rallies that denounced the would-be peacemaker Yitzhak Rabin as a traitor, with doctored images depicting him as a Palestinian terrorist or Nazi SS officer. The head of Israel’s internal security agency went to see Netanyahu, urging him to calm things down. Netanyahu refused and, before long, Rabin was dead, slain by a Jewish extremist. Now some of the same images are being deployed against Bennett.

Interesting, I can recommend the documentary The Gatekeepers, made of up the veterans of Israel's intelligence and security services, not only recounting their history but also their deep concern at how Israel's policies now are undermining the fabric of the nation as well as doing nothing for it's security, quite the opposite in fact. Seems they tried to warn Netanyahu of the consequences of the above, he went ahead anyway, what's the assassination of an Israeli PM and all that followed against his rise to power?

That's who he is, not just massively corrupt.

I can see the same news and some more in German News services. The domestic intelligence agency of Israel (Shin Bet) is already warning regarding excessive hate discussions and statements (seems from the Netanyahu cult leader fan boys/from the sect members of the antidemocratic Netanyahu cult) in social networks, they are warning of attacks on the members of the opposition. ...They will do everything to stop the adjuration of the new government...
https://www.rnd.de/politik/israel-geheimdienst-warnt-vor-gewaltaufrufen-und-hetze-2M3XIUXUOR4VDAPWV3WVEUGY6Y.html Source is in German, so use the implemented translators in your browsers. In there are additional links for other news, which go into further details

Additional (and this is even more worse,) it seems that the cult members will try to restart the war against the Hamas for all costs to stop the adjuration of the new government.
https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Israel-droht-erneute-Eskalation-der-Gewalt-article22599196.html
Also in German language.
Last edited by T4thH on Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15045
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:04 am

entdoc wrote:
Rabbi Jonathan Sacks on Israel...
negotiable

https://youtu.be/MIoZvHU3wwg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He's completely full of shit. What a bunch of blasphemy. Sacks was good at philosophy - he should have stuck to it instead of mocking history.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
GDB
Posts: 14259
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Possibly the end of Netanyahu

Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:03 am

Aaron747 wrote:
entdoc wrote:
Rabbi Jonathan Sacks on Israel...
negotiable

https://youtu.be/MIoZvHU3wwg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


He's completely full of shit. What a bunch of blasphemy. Sacks was good at philosophy - he should have stuck to it instead of mocking history.


And hardly an answer to Netanyahu's disgusting behavior inciting against a sitting Israeli PM, presumably because there cannot be a defence of it.
Yet it set the scene of his subsequent rule of Israel.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Francoflier, luisjumper, tommy1808 and 31 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos