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luckyone
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Re: Osaka won't talk to press

Mon May 31, 2021 9:38 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
I am not buying the mental health thing. I think she thought that powers that be in tennis would fold and cave to her and when they came back at her now she doesn't know what to do because she has to talk to the press now or be DQd.

It’s possible she hoped for more players to agree with her.
 
bennett123
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon May 31, 2021 10:24 pm

Not clear what she means about 'subjecting myself to people that doubt me'.
 
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c933103
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon May 31, 2021 10:53 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

What on earth is she doing? Unreal. This is getting out of control.


If you read her statement posted on her Twitter she indicates she’s suffered depression as a result of what happened to her at the 2018 US Open.

After being put through that abuse at what should’ve been one of the highlights of her career it inflamed her anxiety and she’s been suffering it ever since.

So I hope those who didn’t take her seriously and suggested she’s a Prima Donna, entitled or can’t handle criticism now apologise as her health condition is serious enough for her to leave the competition. Tennis officials now have egg on their face for not supporting her.

It would be a disgrace if a potential superstar of the sport was bullied out of playing. It’s also going to affect ratings and drive down popularity of the tournament, Naomi brought in many new viewers (esp younger and Asian) to the sport.

Isn't the announcement of quitting being a reflection of her disagreement against the organizer fining her over her action with warning on more severe punishment in view?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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c933103
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon May 31, 2021 11:23 pm

c933103 wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

What on earth is she doing? Unreal. This is getting out of control.


If you read her statement posted on her Twitter she indicates she’s suffered depression as a result of what happened to her at the 2018 US Open.

After being put through that abuse at what should’ve been one of the highlights of her career it inflamed her anxiety and she’s been suffering it ever since.

So I hope those who didn’t take her seriously and suggested she’s a Prima Donna, entitled or can’t handle criticism now apologise as her health condition is serious enough for her to leave the competition. Tennis officials now have egg on their face for not supporting her.

It would be a disgrace if a potential superstar of the sport was bullied out of playing. It’s also going to affect ratings and drive down popularity of the tournament, Naomi brought in many new viewers (esp younger and Asian) to the sport.

Isn't the announcement of quitting being a reflection of her disagreement against the organizer fining her over her action with warning on more severe punishment in view?

reading the news it seems like she's apologizing over causing unwanted attention and discussion when the competition is taking place
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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ewt340
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Re: Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:52 am

luckyone wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
Those useless interviews nobody watch. Not even by people who enjoy tennis. Why can't they do something more exciting with interviews?

Soo much money wasted on an events that nobody cares about.

You may not. A lot of us do. And television schedulers count on the press conferences from the top names—they’re often aired as inserts during other matches. I watch them all the time—everybody watches a Serena Williams press conference and absolutely watched all of them after her multiple US Open final meltdowns. Caroline Wozniaki was a press conference darling due to being quite silly and her pressers were replayed many times. Osaka made her name with what were described as refreshing and candid press conferences, and this was before her US Open breakthrough in ‘18. For better or worse, particularly if a top player unexpectedly loses, their comments drive ratings, which drives prize money. They can’t have it both ways.


"A lot of us". Well you see, the problem is, a 2 minute clips on youtube watched by 200,000 people isn't a good indicator of the interview popularity.
Especially with younger generation who didn't watch television no more. Such format and methods are outdated and served for old generations who are not up to date with the times.

The interviews with the same questions and the same answers uploaded into the internet would get repetitive after 4-5 seasons.
Those fake PR laughs and silly answers doesn't work anymore. Only people who are fans of the players would fall for those shenanigan these days.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:52 am

NIKV69 wrote:
I am not buying the mental health thing.


And this just contributes to the continued stigmatisation of mental health.

Mental health conditions are legitimate health conditions that need proper treatment. You can’t dismiss them by watching her on TV and deciding thats she’s faking it. They are not something that you can to choose to believe or not.
 
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Re: Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:29 am

NIKV69 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Serena in 2018 was in the way down, Serena today is basically making up the numbers, players are no longer intimidated by her, she’s old and slow.

I believe Navratilova is the greatest female tennis player of all time, bar non.

Graf is probably the GOAT at singles, her career was a lot shorter than Serena’s, she spent nearly 60 more weeks at number one, won more titles and has a better win loss ratio.


You haven't been watching women's tennis. Serena is still pretty tough. I loved Martina and Graf but Serena is heads above them. If she didn't have her idiot father and bad attitude she would have won much more.



I watched Serena struggle against an unseeded player yesterday. I believe a prime Martina or Graf would be ahead of Serena, they both won more tournaments, both spent longer at no. 1, and through the last decade of Serena's career she's played a field full of pretty weak competition.
 
luckyone
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Re: Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:55 am

ewt340 wrote:
. Such format and methods are outdated and served for old generations who are not up to date with the times.

Only people who are fans of the players would fall for those shenanigan these days.

Do please inform this old Xennial who isn’t hip to the woke jive about who’s watching tennis that aren’t fans of the players.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 01, 2021 3:39 pm

I have no problem with her withdrawing, whatever her reasons are. Rules are rules and you can start a discussion to change them, it's just not what she has done, it's not the right time and she seems to be acknowledging that.

Unlike her the French tennis federation is greatly suffering financially, with Roland Garros being its main source of money (80%), and having sold basically 0 tickets last year and a lot less than usual this year due to COVID restrictions, so you might also understand the harsh reaction.
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luckyone
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:04 pm

Aesma wrote:
I have no problem with her withdrawing, whatever her reasons are. Rules are rules and you can start a discussion to change them, it's just not what she has done, it's not the right time and she seems to be acknowledging that.

Unlike her the French tennis federation is greatly suffering financially, with Roland Garros being its main source of money (80%), and having sold basically 0 tickets last year and a lot less than usual this year due to COVID restrictions, so you might also understand the harsh reaction.

I agree that if she is not doing well emotionally then she should take care of herself. Some now-deleted social media posts from her sister indicate that she has been struggling with anxiety (which I'm not about to victimize), but that blaming the media may not be entirely fair, because her sister's post suggests that a family dynamic may also be contributory. Namely the family asking about her historical clay court record was causing some distress. A player's record is a fair question and her reaction to the question is a symptom that she needs help just as much, if not more than the fact that the questioning itself was antagonistic. Good for her for ultimately trying to do something about it, because eventually it would've been just more than press conferences.

And beyond that, if suddenly top players were skipping press conferences because they could afford the mere fines, it's likely they'd all start to bail and then the media wouldn't be interested. And there goes promotion. Media is everybody's favorite enemy but they do serve a role.
 
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Re: Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:31 pm

Kiwirob wrote:

I watched Serena struggle against an unseeded player yesterday. I believe a prime Martina or Graf would be ahead of Serena, they both won more tournaments, both spent longer at no. 1, and through the last decade of Serena's career she's played a field full of pretty weak competition.


Now they would sure but when Serena was in her prime she would wipe the court with them. She was faster and stronger and hit harder and had more fortitude she is the best female tennis player ever.

sierrakilo44 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
I am not buying the mental health thing.


And this just contributes to the continued stigmatisation of mental health.

Mental health conditions are legitimate health conditions that need proper treatment. You can’t dismiss them by watching her on TV and deciding thats she’s faking it. They are not something that you can to choose to believe or not.


Just as you can't say she is definitely suffering from it. If she was having issues she shouldn't have been on the court and could have taken some time off with a brief statement to the press. I think she thought she would get a pass and not have to talk to the media ever in her career and now that she is being faced with expulsion she is scrambling. Oh well guess we have to wait till Wimbledon.
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luckyone
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Re: Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 01, 2021 4:58 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

I watched Serena struggle against an unseeded player yesterday. I believe a prime Martina or Graf would be ahead of Serena, they both won more tournaments, both spent longer at no. 1, and through the last decade of Serena's career she's played a field full of pretty weak competition.


Now they would sure but when Serena was in her prime she would wipe the court with them. She was faster and stronger and hit harder and had more fortitude she is the best female tennis player ever.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. In her last year, a far-from-peak Graf beat both the Williams sisters. I would caution directly comparing eras due to differences in training and equipment. Graf is bar none the fastest human being to ever grace a tennis court with far superior footwork to even peak Serena (which quite frankly can be really sloppy but she's athletic enough to muscle the ball in compensation), and her forehand was the biggest shot of its era and was still effective to the end. But Graf was also taught fundamentals in an era of wooden racquets and she had a single handed backhand that she rarely hit more than a slice after about 1991. Today she would most certainly have a more robust backhand. I'm not saying she would dominate Serena, but I don't see any court wipings occurring against a modern Graf by anyone. Martina was also a fantastic athlete but was also trained in the wooden era and her technical skills reflected that. She would certainly today play a different game, likely more all court than Serena, along the lines of Justine Henin perhaps who gave Serena fits.

Kiwirob is correct that one could make the argument that the quality of players she faced in Grand Slam finals for much of the 2010s was indeed not the caliber she had faced earlier in her career. I'm at risk of calling a spade a spade her but at the beginning of her career she was facing Martina Hingis, Lindsay Davenport (best pure ball striker in the history of the game, no exceptions IMHO, but was not a good mover), Jennifer Capriati, Henin, Clijsters, or her sister (five of her first six slams), players that were consistently contending the business end of majors and could match Serena shot for shot in some form or another, and had respectable records against her. Following Henin's retirement she was facing players like Wozniaki, Jankovic, Radwanska, Azarenka (she has one more win than Davenport but eight more losses), Safarova, Muguruza, Kerber (three slams but she's notoriously streaky), who are much less consistent or in many cases "who??" if you don't follow women's tennis. Sharapova is a bit of an asterisk because she was a strong competitor who made A results out of B talent but Serena outclasses her after a shoulder injury took away her one weapon over Serena.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:29 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

I watched Serena struggle against an unseeded player yesterday. I believe a prime Martina or Graf would be ahead of Serena, they both won more tournaments, both spent longer at no. 1, and through the last decade of Serena's career she's played a field full of pretty weak competition.


Now they would sure but when Serena was in her prime she would wipe the court with them. She was faster and stronger and hit harder and had more fortitude she is the best female tennis player ever.


I disagree and Serena’s percentage of games won also disagrees with you.
 
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:50 pm

At least she walked not just threatened to do it.
I definitely respect that.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:34 pm

luckyone wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

I watched Serena struggle against an unseeded player yesterday. I believe a prime Martina or Graf would be ahead of Serena, they both won more tournaments, both spent longer at no. 1, and through the last decade of Serena's career she's played a field full of pretty weak competition.


Now they would sure but when Serena was in her prime she would wipe the court with them. She was faster and stronger and hit harder and had more fortitude she is the best female tennis player ever.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. In her last year, a far-from-peak Graf beat both the Williams sisters. I would caution directly comparing eras due to differences in training and equipment. Graf is bar none the fastest human being to ever grace a tennis court with far superior footwork to even peak Serena (which quite frankly can be really sloppy but she's athletic enough to muscle the ball in compensation), and her forehand was the biggest shot of its era and was still effective to the end. But Graf was also taught fundamentals in an era of wooden racquets and she had a single handed backhand that she rarely hit more than a slice after about 1991. Today she would most certainly have a more robust backhand. I'm not saying she would dominate Serena, but I don't see any court wipings occurring against a modern Graf by anyone. Martina was also a fantastic athlete but was also trained in the wooden era and her technical skills reflected that. She would certainly today play a different game, likely more all court than Serena, along the lines of Justine Henin perhaps who gave Serena fits.

Kiwirob is correct that one could make the argument that the quality of players she faced in Grand Slam finals for much of the 2010s was indeed not the caliber she had faced earlier in her career. I'm at risk of calling a spade a spade her but at the beginning of her career she was facing Martina Hingis, Lindsay Davenport (best pure ball striker in the history of the game, no exceptions IMHO, but was not a good mover), Jennifer Capriati, Henin, Clijsters, or her sister (five of her first six slams), players that were consistently contending the business end of majors and could match Serena shot for shot in some form or another, and had respectable records against her. Following Henin's retirement she was facing players like Wozniaki, Jankovic, Radwanska, Azarenka (she has one more win than Davenport but eight more losses), Safarova, Muguruza, Kerber (three slams but she's notoriously streaky), who are much less consistent or in many cases "who??" if you don't follow women's tennis. Sharapova is a bit of an asterisk because she was a strong competitor who made A results out of B talent but Serena outclasses her after a shoulder injury took away her one weapon over Serena.


A-class summation. When we were teens, my brother and I called Graf’s backhand “autoslice” :lol:
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Re: Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 01, 2021 11:02 pm

luckyone wrote:
Sometimes people get a little too full of themselves. This is one of those times. Last summer she was a media darling for her stance on racial justice. I’d be willing to bet she let that go to her head.

Well if she says she's got some mental health problems going on then so be it. But you're right, a part of me did consider that maybe this is just her getting a little carried away with the activism. Back in January Kyrie Irving missed a string of games over concerns regarding social justice and politics but not too many people seemed very sympathetic toward him.

luckyone wrote:
But she’s also the best paid woman athlete on the planet, something she is privileged to be because of sponsorship deals, media buys, etc etc, and the efforts of women like Billie Jean King and the Original Nine who would take any opportunity they could get to promote tennis.

I'm convinced that a vast majority of people simply aren't mature enough at that age to handle all that fame and fortune.

ewt340 wrote:
Those useless interviews nobody watches. Not even by people who enjoy tennis. Why can't they do something more exciting with interviews?

Some of the questions that athletes/coaches get asked at press conferences are laughably bad or predictable. When it comes to tennis it seems like the media is especially desperate for any little snippet that could spice things up a bit. A few years ago at the Australian Open I recall Caroline Wozniacki had told the assembled press that she had come across a kangaroo in the city of Melbourne. Then the media got whipped up into such a fervor that she had to come back and have another press conference to "clear things up." They even interrupted the match to show her press conference live. :sarcastic: Here's another great example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGiSrj97txc
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luckyone
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Re: Osaka won't talk to press

Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:15 am

Aaron747 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

Now they would sure but when Serena was in her prime she would wipe the court with them. She was faster and stronger and hit harder and had more fortitude she is the best female tennis player ever.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that. In her last year, a far-from-peak Graf beat both the Williams sisters. I would caution directly comparing eras due to differences in training and equipment. Graf is bar none the fastest human being to ever grace a tennis court with far superior footwork to even peak Serena (which quite frankly can be really sloppy but she's athletic enough to muscle the ball in compensation), and her forehand was the biggest shot of its era and was still effective to the end. But Graf was also taught fundamentals in an era of wooden racquets and she had a single handed backhand that she rarely hit more than a slice after about 1991. Today she would most certainly have a more robust backhand. I'm not saying she would dominate Serena, but I don't see any court wipings occurring against a modern Graf by anyone. Martina was also a fantastic athlete but was also trained in the wooden era and her technical skills reflected that. She would certainly today play a different game, likely more all court than Serena, along the lines of Justine Henin perhaps who gave Serena fits.

Kiwirob is correct that one could make the argument that the quality of players she faced in Grand Slam finals for much of the 2010s was indeed not the caliber she had faced earlier in her career. I'm at risk of calling a spade a spade her but at the beginning of her career she was facing Martina Hingis, Lindsay Davenport (best pure ball striker in the history of the game, no exceptions IMHO, but was not a good mover), Jennifer Capriati, Henin, Clijsters, or her sister (five of her first six slams), players that were consistently contending the business end of majors and could match Serena shot for shot in some form or another, and had respectable records against her. Following Henin's retirement she was facing players like Wozniaki, Jankovic, Radwanska, Azarenka (she has one more win than Davenport but eight more losses), Safarova, Muguruza, Kerber (three slams but she's notoriously streaky), who are much less consistent or in many cases "who??" if you don't follow women's tennis. Sharapova is a bit of an asterisk because she was a strong competitor who made A results out of B talent but Serena outclasses her after a shoulder injury took away her one weapon over Serena.


A-class summation. When we were teens, my brother and I called Graf’s backhand “autoslice” :lol:

She wouldn’t hit it as much today, but that slice would give today’s players fits as low as it stayed. I remember watching Serena-Capriati matches and watching the two of them handle slice was night and day. Capriati often beat Serena by junking her with good slices. Serena sometimes tried to slice back and Capriati would just eat the ball. It’s rather silly, but more than once I found myself saying “You gotta so better than that Serena. Capriati played Steffi Graf.” :rotfl:
 
luckyone
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Re: Osaka won't talk to press

Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:09 pm

Revelation wrote:

luckyone wrote:
Unfortunately her initial statements made her sound like an entitled little girl—when we feel vulnerable and defensive our mature defenses break down. I hope her team learns a lesson too about having some supports and stop-checks before public statements are made.

Yes, and IMO there's some room for international federations to move away from the current feeding frenzy approach to media appearances.

From the quotes made by her sister on another social media site, it would appear that feeding frenzy wasn't the issue here. It was simply answering questions at all and it would appear that Osaka's own family was just as much the culprit as anyone else, and as usual the media is everyone's favorite fall guy. https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comment ... out_naomi/

Meanwhile, Osaka's follow up statement suggests that the tennis media has not been hostile to her -- now, that could just be an attempt at damage control after she realized she handled this rather sloppily. I still say good for her for withdrawing and getting help. If her anxiety was to the point where it appears, then if it weren't answering questions, it would've been something else. An athlete answering questions about their performance record is not intrusive or inappropriate.


Meanwhile, I want to know how many knee jerking social virtue signaling Twits actually follow tennis and can tell you two players other than Serena and Osaka.
Last edited by luckyone on Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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par13del
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:19 pm

luckyone wrote:
And beyond that, if suddenly top players were skipping press conferences because they could afford the mere fines, it's likely they'd all start to bail and then the media wouldn't be interested. And there goes promotion. Media is everybody's favorite enemy but they do serve a role.

One wonders if anyone is going to do anything about that problem, it would seem that is greater than one individual athlete.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:00 pm

At sports related press conferences if you notice are with a backdrop with the name of the tournament/team as well as the name of major sponsors of the tournament/team/sport those sponsors pay good money for to have them there when some start player/coach is talking. In the end it is about money for the tournament/team owners and they don't want to get less money if players don't participate in the press conferences.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:18 pm

ltbewr wrote:
At sports related press conferences if you notice are with a backdrop with the name of the tournament/team as well as the name of major sponsors of the tournament/team/sport those sponsors pay good money for to have them there when some start player/coach is talking. In the end it is about money for the tournament/team owners and they don't want to get less money if players don't participate in the press conferences.

Overall the tournament will make less money because the world #2 ranked player withdrew after the first round.

Seems the Grand Slam committee is much more contrite now: https://nypost.com/2021/06/01/grand-sla ... omi-osaka/

In particular:

Mental health is a very challenging issue, which deserves our utmost attention. It is both complex and personal, as what affects one individual does not necessarily affect another. We commend Naomi for sharing in her own words the pressures and anxieties she is feeling and we empathize with the unique pressures tennis players may face.

Yet:

Together as a community we will continue to improve the player experience at our tournaments, including as it relates to media. Change should come through the lens of maintaining a fair playing field, regardless of ranking or status. Sport requires rules and regulations to ensure that no player has an unfair advantage over another.

They admit players react differently, yet say all players must be treated the same.

Kind of a hard problem to solve, unless the nature of a press conference changes a lot.

Hopefully some workable compromises are found going forward.
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Aesma
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:06 pm

Osaka changed her tone too. And of course left the tournament so she's not "making a scene" anymore every couple of days, which helps a lot in having a calm conversation.
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extender
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:30 pm

Sorry, but if you can't handle the obligations to which you agree to upon entering a tournament, have a nice day. Everyone else before her has gone through it, nor is she getting singled out. It would be an unfair advantage to placate her.
 
LittleFokker
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Fri Jun 04, 2021 2:53 pm

https://www.theringer.com/2021/6/1/2246 ... ism-sports

Excellent summation of the situation by Bryan Curtis. The whole sports economy is one privilege stacked on top of other privileges. It's fortunate that the people who are best at sport are able to be paid handsome sums to be able to do so. It's fortunate that the public interest is sufficient that a whole media microeconomy exists to cover it. It's fortunate that teams and leagues are still able to command high ticket prices despite declining in person experience value and increasing home viewing experience. Any one of these elements of the sports economy could go away very easily and cause the rest of it to collapse as well. It's never clear cut on who needs who more when it comes to athletes and media and the dynamic is constantly changing. There is some merit to the idea of compelling athletes to talk when requested, but on an individual level, folks should err on the side of sympathy.

Side note - if you aren't subscribing to "The Press Box," a podcast hosted by this author and David Shoemaker, you are missing out on the best podcast available right now.
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GDB
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:37 pm

A much needed counter to all the usual, from the usual.
The writer has for years gone after the bloated and often corrupt sports organisations, or the Sporting/Corporate Industrial Complex, such as the FA, UEFA, IOC.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... aomi-osaka

No interest in the game myself, however it made the news and even I noticed the first of the examples she mentions here;
You do have to admire tennis’s position on health. The women’s No 2 has been pushed into withdrawing from a grand slam for having the temerity to take a small step to protect her own mental equilibrium, while the men’s No 1 has spent the past 14 months continually honking out anti-Covid vaccine messages . Novak Djokovic has not been officially censured for that, nor for the ridiculous super-spreader tournament he hosted across the Balkans last summer against all advice, which saw several players (including him) catch Covid.
As for the hierarchy of the sport’s sins, how predictable that it should be “doing press conferences” that united all four slams in a joint condemnatory press release, while they remain utterly silent on world No 6 Alexander Zverev many months after he was accused in great detail of domestic violence and mental abuse by his ex-girlfriend. Zverev issued a denial; and denial in any case remains tennis’s comfort zone. For a major sport it is fundamentally incurious, testing for performance enhancing drugs, according to a 2016 investigation, at the same levels as kayaking or handball.
 
luckyone
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:43 am

After all the hand wringing from people who’ve likely never seen a tennis match unless it was to say they watched Serena go for 24 (seriously, these “I was there!” people really grind my gears) one week later it bears mentioning that nobody else has skipped any press conferences or complained about them. Including Serena Williams who lost today and still showed up for hers...

Personally I loved Venus Williams’ response — say what you want, I don’t see you on the other side of the net.

Osaka’s reasons for withdrawing are likely her own, and speculation can run the gamut—my own include not-too-subtle suggestions from her sponsors about how to take care of your business with a little more tact. Hopefully she gets the help she needs and takes a lesson about how to ask and get for help. And hopefully she and her sister (who needs a media feeding frenzy after your sister makes you look like a misguided child and contradicts some of the things you publicly say) get a little media coaching.
 
luckyone
Posts: 3968
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:48 am

GDB wrote:
A much needed counter to all the usual, from the usual.
The writer has for years gone after the bloated and often corrupt sports organisations, or the Sporting/Corporate Industrial Complex, such as the FA, UEFA, IOC.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... aomi-osaka

No interest in the game myself, however it made the news and even I noticed the first of the examples she mentions here;
You do have to admire tennis’s position on health. The women’s No 2 has been pushed into withdrawing from a grand slam for having the temerity to take a small step to protect her own mental equilibrium, while the men’s No 1 has spent the past 14 months continually honking out anti-Covid vaccine messages . Novak Djokovic has not been officially censured for that, nor for the ridiculous super-spreader tournament he hosted across the Balkans last summer against all advice, which saw several players (including him) catch Covid.
As for the hierarchy of the sport’s sins, how predictable that it should be “doing press conferences” that united all four slams in a joint condemnatory press release, while they remain utterly silent on world No 6 Alexander Zverev many months after he was accused in great detail of domestic violence and mental abuse by his ex-girlfriend. Zverev issued a denial; and denial in any case remains tennis’s comfort zone. For a major sport it is fundamentally incurious, testing for performance enhancing drugs, according to a 2016 investigation, at the same levels as kayaking or handball.

Since you claim not to follow the game, you should read up on how the tennis world responded to Djokovic’s idiotic Adriatic dalliance and the schadenfreude that followed after he contracted COVID-19. Aside from that, please show us how he was not obliging any contractual duties.

As for Zverev, the tour or Slams can’t do anything without a conviction. And you know that in spite of the fact that the allegations may very well be true.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:58 am

luckyone wrote:
After all the hand wringing from people who’ve likely never seen a tennis match unless it was to say they watched Serena go for 24 (seriously, these “I was there!” people really grind my gears) one week later it bears mentioning that nobody else has skipped any press conferences or complained about them. Including Serena Williams who lost today and still showed up for hers...


And the wait continues, I doubt she’s going to get to 24. She was beaten easily by Rybakina.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 586
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:24 am

It’s telling to see the difference in reaction from French Open officials between Naomi Osaka admitting to having health issues....

....and Roger Federer pulling out over his health issues, in which he admitted he wasn’t serious about finishing the tournament when he started.

It’s nonsense
 
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Aesma
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:27 am

Tournaments can't do anything about players retiring, there is no rule against that !
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:23 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
It’s telling to see the difference in reaction from French Open officials between Naomi Osaka admitting to having health issues....

....and Roger Federer pulling out over his health issues, in which he admitted he wasn’t serious about finishing the tournament when he started.

It’s nonsense


The greatest tennis player of all time v the current women's no. 2, he's always going to be treated better than anyone else.
 
luckyone
Posts: 3968
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:39 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
It’s telling to see the difference in reaction from French Open officials between Naomi Osaka admitting to having health issues....

....and Roger Federer pulling out over his health issues, in which he admitted he wasn’t serious about finishing the tournament when he started.

It’s nonsense

Considering Federer withdrew in the process of acknowledging a limitation as opposed to saying something to the effect of “my knee hurts therefore I refuse to acknowledge foot faults because bending my knees and pushing off to serve makes my knee worse,” you have a grievance looking for an action. Nor did he appear to misguidedly disparage anyone in the process of his announcement. Osaka herself has acknowledged she stepped in it...

Meanwhile, do please look for sources showing people criticizing Osaka for withdrawing—not refusing to do press conferences but actually withdrawing. While doing that, recall (if you actually follow tennis) that Justine Henin withdrew from the 2007 Australian Open citing personal reasons—so this is hardly unprecedented and unsupported.
 
luckyone
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:57 am

Kiwirob wrote:
luckyone wrote:
After all the hand wringing from people who’ve likely never seen a tennis match unless it was to say they watched Serena go for 24 (seriously, these “I was there!” people really grind my gears) one week later it bears mentioning that nobody else has skipped any press conferences or complained about them. Including Serena Williams who lost today and still showed up for hers...


And the wait continues, I doubt she’s going to get to 24. She was beaten easily by Rybakina.

At her age, and state of physical conditioning the odds are indeed against her. It’s not body shaming to state the obvious that she is not as lean post baby as before. Few women are, but it matters when you’re playing girls 20 years you’re junior. Anything more than routine victories for more than two matches in a row is going to drain her tank too much by the time she plays a quality player. I think she’s also lost half a step which makes those open stance strokes of hers less supported and more prone to error. That being said, I’m certainly not going to be shocked if she has a friendly draw and a dream Wimbledon one more time.
 
GDB
Posts: 14259
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:03 pm

luckyone wrote:
GDB wrote:
A much needed counter to all the usual, from the usual.
The writer has for years gone after the bloated and often corrupt sports organisations, or the Sporting/Corporate Industrial Complex, such as the FA, UEFA, IOC.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... aomi-osaka

No interest in the game myself, however it made the news and even I noticed the first of the examples she mentions here;
You do have to admire tennis’s position on health. The women’s No 2 has been pushed into withdrawing from a grand slam for having the temerity to take a small step to protect her own mental equilibrium, while the men’s No 1 has spent the past 14 months continually honking out anti-Covid vaccine messages . Novak Djokovic has not been officially censured for that, nor for the ridiculous super-spreader tournament he hosted across the Balkans last summer against all advice, which saw several players (including him) catch Covid.
As for the hierarchy of the sport’s sins, how predictable that it should be “doing press conferences” that united all four slams in a joint condemnatory press release, while they remain utterly silent on world No 6 Alexander Zverev many months after he was accused in great detail of domestic violence and mental abuse by his ex-girlfriend. Zverev issued a denial; and denial in any case remains tennis’s comfort zone. For a major sport it is fundamentally incurious, testing for performance enhancing drugs, according to a 2016 investigation, at the same levels as kayaking or handball.

Since you claim not to follow the game, you should read up on how the tennis world responded to Djokovic’s idiotic Adriatic dalliance and the schadenfreude that followed after he contracted COVID-19. Aside from that, please show us how he was not obliging any contractual duties.

As for Zverev, the tour or Slams can’t do anything without a conviction. And you know that in spite of the fact that the allegations may very well be true.


It just shows what the sport's governing bodies appear to deem so important.
Did the tennis world sanction the bonkers Balkan for his actions? As in a ban for a period? Were there actual fines imposed?
Not dunking on tennis here, most of the major sports governing bodies are little different.
 
luckyone
Posts: 3968
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:08 pm

GDB wrote:
luckyone wrote:
GDB wrote:
A much needed counter to all the usual, from the usual.
The writer has for years gone after the bloated and often corrupt sports organisations, or the Sporting/Corporate Industrial Complex, such as the FA, UEFA, IOC.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... aomi-osaka

No interest in the game myself, however it made the news and even I noticed the first of the examples she mentions here;
You do have to admire tennis’s position on health. The women’s No 2 has been pushed into withdrawing from a grand slam for having the temerity to take a small step to protect her own mental equilibrium, while the men’s No 1 has spent the past 14 months continually honking out anti-Covid vaccine messages . Novak Djokovic has not been officially censured for that, nor for the ridiculous super-spreader tournament he hosted across the Balkans last summer against all advice, which saw several players (including him) catch Covid.
As for the hierarchy of the sport’s sins, how predictable that it should be “doing press conferences” that united all four slams in a joint condemnatory press release, while they remain utterly silent on world No 6 Alexander Zverev many months after he was accused in great detail of domestic violence and mental abuse by his ex-girlfriend. Zverev issued a denial; and denial in any case remains tennis’s comfort zone. For a major sport it is fundamentally incurious, testing for performance enhancing drugs, according to a 2016 investigation, at the same levels as kayaking or handball.

Since you claim not to follow the game, you should read up on how the tennis world responded to Djokovic’s idiotic Adriatic dalliance and the schadenfreude that followed after he contracted COVID-19. Aside from that, please show us how he was not obliging any contractual duties.

As for Zverev, the tour or Slams can’t do anything without a conviction. And you know that in spite of the fact that the allegations may very well be true.


It just shows what the sport's governing bodies appear to deem so important.
Did the tennis world sanction the bonkers Balkan for his actions? As in a ban for a period? Were there actual fines imposed?
Not dunking on tennis here, most of the major sports governing bodies are little different.

What legal grounds would they have to do so...It also goes to show you're conflating a response from tournament directors to tour managers. It was the tournament directors imposing fines on Osaka, not the tour. Never mind that the men and women have separate tours...
 
LCDFlight
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Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:22 pm

Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:33 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Not clear what she means about 'subjecting myself to people that doubt me'.


I thought that was part of competitive athletics, even for children :rotfl:
 
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Kiwirob
Posts: 13494
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:37 pm

luckyone wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
luckyone wrote:
After all the hand wringing from people who’ve likely never seen a tennis match unless it was to say they watched Serena go for 24 (seriously, these “I was there!” people really grind my gears) one week later it bears mentioning that nobody else has skipped any press conferences or complained about them. Including Serena Williams who lost today and still showed up for hers...


And the wait continues, I doubt she’s going to get to 24. She was beaten easily by Rybakina.

At her age, and state of physical conditioning the odds are indeed against her. It’s not body shaming to state the obvious that she is not as lean post baby as before. Few women are, but it matters when you’re playing girls 20 years you’re junior. Anything more than routine victories for more than two matches in a row is going to drain her tank too much by the time she plays a quality player. I think she’s also lost half a step which makes those open stance strokes of hers less supported and more prone to error. That being said, I’m certainly not going to be shocked if she has a friendly draw and a dream Wimbledon one more time.


I think she's damaging her legacy, she should retire, Federer is also in a similar situation, he's still very good but not as good as he need to be to win another Slam.
 
luckyone
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:13 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

And the wait continues, I doubt she’s going to get to 24. She was beaten easily by Rybakina.

At her age, and state of physical conditioning the odds are indeed against her. It’s not body shaming to state the obvious that she is not as lean post baby as before. Few women are, but it matters when you’re playing girls 20 years you’re junior. Anything more than routine victories for more than two matches in a row is going to drain her tank too much by the time she plays a quality player. I think she’s also lost half a step which makes those open stance strokes of hers less supported and more prone to error. That being said, I’m certainly not going to be shocked if she has a friendly draw and a dream Wimbledon one more time.


I think she's damaging her legacy, she should retire, Federer is also in a similar situation, he's still very good but not as good as he need to be to win another Slam.

My own take is that athletes playing an individual sport should retire when they see fit. Though I do question why say, Venus Williams is still playing with her ranking of 104. Her on court winnings likely have barely covered her expenses for the past two to three seasons. I'm not sure what her endorsement picture looks like these days.
 
GDB
Posts: 14259
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:19 pm

luckyone wrote:
GDB wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Since you claim not to follow the game, you should read up on how the tennis world responded to Djokovic’s idiotic Adriatic dalliance and the schadenfreude that followed after he contracted COVID-19. Aside from that, please show us how he was not obliging any contractual duties.

As for Zverev, the tour or Slams can’t do anything without a conviction. And you know that in spite of the fact that the allegations may very well be true.


It just shows what the sport's governing bodies appear to deem so important.
Did the tennis world sanction the bonkers Balkan for his actions? As in a ban for a period? Were there actual fines imposed?
Not dunking on tennis here, most of the major sports governing bodies are little different.

What legal grounds would they have to do so...It also goes to show you're conflating a response from tournament directors to tour managers. It was the tournament directors imposing fines on Osaka, not the tour. Never mind that the men and women have separate tours...


Yes, I DID know believe it or not that there were separate tours, so maybe the tournament directors should perhaps drop the requirement for these press conferences.
Problem solved, make it a choice thing.
I suspect 'big sport' won't like that however.
 
luckyone
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:21 pm

GDB wrote:
luckyone wrote:
GDB wrote:

It just shows what the sport's governing bodies appear to deem so important.
Did the tennis world sanction the bonkers Balkan for his actions? As in a ban for a period? Were there actual fines imposed?
Not dunking on tennis here, most of the major sports governing bodies are little different.

What legal grounds would they have to do so...It also goes to show you're conflating a response from tournament directors to tour managers. It was the tournament directors imposing fines on Osaka, not the tour. Never mind that the men and women have separate tours...


Yes, I DID know believe it or not that there were separate tours, so maybe the tournament directors should perhaps drop the requirement for these press conferences.
Problem solved, make it a choice thing.
I suspect 'big sport' won't like that however.

Hey, one can only assume when one claims to not follow a sport that one may not be educated to some of the nuances...

Maybe they can drop the requirements assuming that doesn't conflict with media sponsorship, but the problem was she tried to reneg (for reasons that still appear contradictory but whatever at this point) on an obligation she made post facto that has down the line implications for the tournament (and other players) as it was currently being held. Since you clearly have strong convictions about it, I'm all ears about your suggested alternative to promotion that benefits the players and the tournament on the whole. I'd also like to hear how you would suggest a tour or tournament sanction a player for activities done outside of the terms of their contract.
 
GDB
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:26 pm

luckyone wrote:
GDB wrote:
luckyone wrote:
What legal grounds would they have to do so...It also goes to show you're conflating a response from tournament directors to tour managers. It was the tournament directors imposing fines on Osaka, not the tour. Never mind that the men and women have separate tours...


Yes, I DID know believe it or not that there were separate tours, so maybe the tournament directors should perhaps drop the requirement for these press conferences.
Problem solved, make it a choice thing.
I suspect 'big sport' won't like that however.

Hey, one can only assume when one claims to not follow a sport that one may not be educated to some of the nuances...

Maybe they can drop the requirements assuming that doesn't conflict with media sponsorship, but the problem was she tried to reneg (for reasons that still appear contradictory but whatever at this point) on an obligation she made post facto that has down the line implications for the tournament (and other players) as it was currently being held. Since you clearly have strong convictions about it, I'm all ears about your suggested alternative to promotion that benefits the players and the tournament on the whole. I'd also like to hear how you would suggest a tour or tournament sanction a player for activities done outside of the terms of their contract.


The only conviction on this I have is that Big Sport, over the past few years, seems to be forever having crisis of their own making, UEFA, IOC, in the UK the FA, in the US the NFL.
The reason I linked Ms Hyde's article is that she has over these years reported on these, often amusingly, the utter cynicism of Big Sport and of course their real masters, the sponsors.
This case became better known when the usual suspects, like our very own Piers Morgan, pontificated in their usual way on this. As Hyde points out there is a real loss of proportion here, compared to way more serious mis deeds by a Tennis player, well one idiot in particular.

Cheer up, this is all nothing compared to the worst of them all, the IOC, insisting on the Olympics despite 80% of the host nation not wanting it this year due to Covid.
Surely it would be easier for all if the Summer games were reset, from 2022 onwards?
But I was surprised to see that Tennis, a major sport with all that sponsor money, has a joke of a testing regime.
 
luckyone
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:45 pm

GDB wrote:
luckyone wrote:
GDB wrote:

Yes, I DID know believe it or not that there were separate tours, so maybe the tournament directors should perhaps drop the requirement for these press conferences.
Problem solved, make it a choice thing.
I suspect 'big sport' won't like that however.

Hey, one can only assume when one claims to not follow a sport that one may not be educated to some of the nuances...

Maybe they can drop the requirements assuming that doesn't conflict with media sponsorship, but the problem was she tried to reneg (for reasons that still appear contradictory but whatever at this point) on an obligation she made post facto that has down the line implications for the tournament (and other players) as it was currently being held. Since you clearly have strong convictions about it, I'm all ears about your suggested alternative to promotion that benefits the players and the tournament on the whole. I'd also like to hear how you would suggest a tour or tournament sanction a player for activities done outside of the terms of their contract.


The only conviction on this I have is that Big Sport, over the past few years, seems to be forever having crisis of their own making, UEFA, IOC, in the UK the FA, in the US the NFL.
The reason I linked Ms Hyde's article is that she has over these years reported on these, often amusingly, the utter cynicism of Big Sport and of course their real masters, the sponsors.
This case became better known when the usual suspects, like our very own Piers Morgan, pontificated in their usual way on this. As Hyde points out there is a real loss of proportion here, compared to way more serious mis deeds by a Tennis player, well one idiot in particular.

Cheer up, this is all nothing compared to the worst of them all, the IOC, insisting on the Olympics despite 80% of the host nation not wanting it this year due to Covid.
Surely it would be easier for all if the Summer games were reset, from 2022 onwards?
But I was surprised to see that Tennis, a major sport with all that sponsor money, has a joke of a testing regime.

So your suggestion for tennis players and press conference is...?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:54 pm

luckyone wrote:
So your suggestion for tennis players and press conference is...?


Have your coach read out a prepared statement and "No comment" all questions. Fulfills the obligations with the big bonus that the hacks will soon get bored.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
luckyone
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:05 pm

scbriml wrote:
luckyone wrote:
So your suggestion for tennis players and press conference is...?


Have your coach read out a prepared statement and "No comment" all questions. Fulfills the obligations with the big bonus that the hacks will soon get bored.

Makes sense to me, minus the coach. I don't see why a player couldn't do that...and indeed some have.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 08, 2021 6:41 am

I would question if tennis is "Big Sport". It's an individual sport so billionaires can't own a team, for starters. The richest individuals involved are players themselves.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
ewt340
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:49 am

Aesma wrote:
I would question if tennis is "Big Sport". It's an individual sport so billionaires can't own a team, for starters. The richest individuals involved are players themselves.


They usually refer to Big Sport as in the large sums of monetary valuation circulating in that particular sport. While tennis isn't as big as football. Many rich people actually enjoys playing them, similar to Golf.
It's a high value sport with limited quantity.
 
GDB
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:02 am

ewt340 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I would question if tennis is "Big Sport". It's an individual sport so billionaires can't own a team, for starters. The richest individuals involved are players themselves.


They usually refer to Big Sport as in the large sums of monetary valuation circulating in that particular sport. While tennis isn't as big as football. Many rich people actually enjoys playing them, similar to Golf.
It's a high value sport with limited quantity.


That's how I would define it.

As to the other question, why make the press conferences mandatory, when did it happen that they became so in the first place?
How many really watch them as compared to the match itself?
 
luckyone
Posts: 3968
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:09 am

GDB wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I would question if tennis is "Big Sport". It's an individual sport so billionaires can't own a team, for starters. The richest individuals involved are players themselves.


They usually refer to Big Sport as in the large sums of monetary valuation circulating in that particular sport. While tennis isn't as big as football. Many rich people actually enjoys playing them, similar to Golf.
It's a high value sport with limited quantity.


That's how I would define it.

As to the other question, why make the press conferences mandatory, when did it happen that they became so in the first place?
How many really watch them as compared to the match itself?

Answering a question with a question is not an answer. What is your suggestion...

To answer your question, I don’t know when it became mandatory. But it became the custom and expectation after pro tennis and amateur tennis merged in the late 1960s. Tennis boomed shortly thereafter.
 
JJJ
Posts: 4070
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Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Tue Jun 08, 2021 11:29 am

luckyone wrote:
GDB wrote:
ewt340 wrote:

They usually refer to Big Sport as in the large sums of monetary valuation circulating in that particular sport. While tennis isn't as big as football. Many rich people actually enjoys playing them, similar to Golf.
It's a high value sport with limited quantity.


That's how I would define it.

As to the other question, why make the press conferences mandatory, when did it happen that they became so in the first place?
How many really watch them as compared to the match itself?

Answering a question with a question is not an answer. What is your suggestion...

To answer your question, I don’t know when it became mandatory. But it became the custom and expectation after pro tennis and amateur tennis merged in the late 1960s. Tennis boomed shortly thereafter.


Not to forget both WTA and ATP have regular coaching sessions on how to deal with press conferences, English lessons, etc.

I believe they started in the late 80s and 90s with the crop of very young players like Capriati, Seles, etc. often struggling with conferences as much as with their sports and family life.
 
GDB
Posts: 14259
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Naomi Osaka won't talk to press

Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:18 am

luckyone wrote:
GDB wrote:
ewt340 wrote:

They usually refer to Big Sport as in the large sums of monetary valuation circulating in that particular sport. While tennis isn't as big as football. Many rich people actually enjoys playing them, similar to Golf.
It's a high value sport with limited quantity.


That's how I would define it.

As to the other question, why make the press conferences mandatory, when did it happen that they became so in the first place?
How many really watch them as compared to the match itself?

Answering a question with a question is not an answer. What is your suggestion...

To answer your question, I don’t know when it became mandatory. But it became the custom and expectation after pro tennis and amateur tennis merged in the late 1960s. Tennis boomed shortly thereafter.


As before, it's about a sense of proportion, why I linked the article, pro sport just loves to trumpet it's healthy living message, one reason why tobacco advertising is a thing of the past.
One player who did (and still does?) spreads his brainless views on the biggest public health crisis of our times and helps spread infection and falsehood, is he competing in the Mens's part of this event?
Another refuses to do a press conference of all things and gets a ton a crap on her.
Not saying she should not be sanctioned in some way, she broke an agreement.
But in the real world (which big sport is decidedly NOT part of), it appears very odd, to some at least.

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