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MaverickM11
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:11 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
OA412 wrote:
If you'd like to discuss DLs financials, please do so in Civil Aviation. The topic is an employee who was terminated, not DLs profits/losses.


Please see the third to last paragraph on the second page of the letter. It has everything to do with Delta's financials and is the only point the letter is making that actually matters. The letter calls for replacing Ed and their abysmal financial performance (especially compared to their competitors and their previous ranking) is what will most easily justify that.


That was a salient point, sure, but that’s up to the board, not a rando employee.

Meh...DL vastly outperformed its legacy competitors for years pre pandemic, so the unhinged manifesto of a crazy person doesn't change that. The proof of every carriers' pandemic response won't be realized for months in any case.
 
n9801f
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:41 pm

NLINK wrote:
afcjets wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Sure is hard to keep up with them! After all, they’ve only been named Delta Air Lines since 1945. I myself keep accidentally searching Huff Daland Dusters when I try to book on DL.

No they haven't. I don't remember the exact year but I'm guessing somewhere around 15-20 years ago they announced they were changing their official name to Delta Airlines. I actually didn't even know they changed it back. And before you ask, no I didn't write that letter lol. (nor do I work for or have I ever worked for Delta)



You can read the history here. It's not Delta Airlines, it is Delta Air Lines. Like I said and got in trouble for letting people in charge know they were spelling it wrong on an aviation enthusiast forum but they still spell in wrong. Not real surprising though in today's environment. Look at the SEC filings also of the correct name.

https://news.delta.com/deltas-history-d ... ting-world

@NLINK

afcjets is absolutely, 100% correct.

I have a few old Delta-published timetables labeled "Delta Airlines".
 
FGITD
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:55 pm

Curious.

https://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/dl.htm

Timetables from the 1930s to 2000s, not a single chance to the name, aside from shortening to just Delta later on
 
NLINK
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:22 pm

n9801f wrote:
NLINK wrote:
afcjets wrote:
No they haven't. I don't remember the exact year but I'm guessing somewhere around 15-20 years ago they announced they were changing their official name to Delta Airlines. I actually didn't even know they changed it back. And before you ask, no I didn't write that letter lol. (nor do I work for or have I ever worked for Delta)



You can read the history here. It's not Delta Airlines, it is Delta Air Lines. Like I said and got in trouble for letting people in charge know they were spelling it wrong on an aviation enthusiast forum but they still spell in wrong. Not real surprising though in today's environment. Look at the SEC filings also of the correct name.

https://news.delta.com/deltas-history-d ... ting-world

@NLINK

afcjets is absolutely, 100% correct.

I have a few old Delta-published timetables labeled "Delta Airlines".



Send us a picture of them then please. People are very hard headed in accepting it is Delta Air Lines, not Delta Airlines. Hard to understand people are unable to read even the most basic things now a days.
 
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seb146
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Fri Jun 04, 2021 10:48 pm

chimborazo wrote:
seb146 wrote:
n9801f wrote:
Well, no, that's not quite what I mean. I'll clarify.

Delta is incorporated as a Delaware Corporation to make money. It is not incorporated as a Political Action Committee or a social welfare organization. Its primary mission and obligation is to make money for shareholders.

The losses show that it is failing to meet its objective of profitability. By an enormous margin. In fact, its YE 1Q21 losses were almost double similar-sized United's and 1/3 more than American's.

The ship is taking on lots of water.

Measured by profitability, management's ideas are not working.

In that situation, it's a hard sell to shareholders to make the further leap to say, "And management doesn't want to hear any opposing ideas."

New problems require new solutions. Same old same old is not working here.

And as a shareholder, the losses are so scorching that I don't want them to focus on anything but their core business of making money until the situation improves. Extra-curricular activities need to be temporarily canceled to make more time to study, etc.

After all, companies like Borders, Blockbuster, and Braniff aren't very effective political advocates today. Even if their intentions were good, they just don't have a pedestal to voice them anymore.


I would argue that United and American are as political as Delta. Using a years old meme to gin up the base is nothing new. Delta being political has zero to do with their losses.

The transit agency in Portland, Tri-Met, is political. They do things for Black History Month, Pride, Indigenous People's Day, etc. They lost money a couple of years ago because the board decided to buy diesel fuel on a different scale than they had before. That turned out to be a huge mistake during the oil crisis in the 2000s. They lost money hand over fist. But, those huge losses were because Tri-Met is too political. Right?


Maybe they should have put those employees minds to work on determining the best outcome as a business instead of focussing on the described items that aren’t necessary for a company to function commercially.

If one is “forced” to pay a certain price for using a service like transportation, no part of the money spent should be used on political matters.


Many of us GenX and younger know about being the very tiny cog in the huge corporate machine. We hear those at the very top say "tell us what we can do to make things better" but nothing really happens unless it makes a difference for those at the very top.

I believe it was former presidential candidate and current Utah Senator Mitt Romney who said "corporations are people, my friend!" when asked about Citizens United. Meaning corporations can use their money for politics because money is speech.
 
afcjets
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:23 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
Meh...DL vastly outperformed its legacy competitors for years pre pandemic, so the unhinged manifesto of a crazy person doesn't change that. The proof of every carriers' pandemic response won't be realized for months in any case.


It's not so much not being able to focus on their core business during a pandemic while getting involved in politics it's more getting involved in politics is negatively impacting their core business in addition to the pandemic.

"On the weekend, #BoycottDelta was one of the top trending hashtags on Twitter. As of Monday night, it had been used in more than 38,000 tweets since March 23."

https://www.ajc.com/news/business/delta ... 4WVOQ5YE4/


"Delta first faced boycott calls from liberals for not speaking out against the law and then from conservatives who said the airline should avoid choosing sides in politics."

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/de ... ontroversy


"Former President Trump called Friday night for a boycott of Major League Baseball, Coke and Delta Airlines — and all other companies that have pulled out of Georgia or otherwise protested the state’s controversial new voting reform bill."

https://nypost.com/2021/04/03/trump-cal ... -airlines/
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:41 am

afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Meh...DL vastly outperformed its legacy competitors for years pre pandemic, so the unhinged manifesto of a crazy person doesn't change that. The proof of every carriers' pandemic response won't be realized for months in any case.


It's not so much not being able to focus on their core business during a pandemic while getting involved in politics it's more getting involved in politics is negatively impacting their core business in addition to the pandemic.

"On the weekend, #BoycottDelta was one of the top trending hashtags on Twitter. As of Monday night, it had been used in more than 38,000 tweets since March 23."

https://www.ajc.com/news/business/delta ... 4WVOQ5YE4/


"Delta first faced boycott calls from liberals for not speaking out against the law and then from conservatives who said the airline should avoid choosing sides in politics."

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/de ... ontroversy


"Former President Trump called Friday night for a boycott of Major League Baseball, Coke and Delta Airlines — and all other companies that have pulled out of Georgia or otherwise protested the state’s controversial new voting reform bill."

https://nypost.com/2021/04/03/trump-cal ... -airlines/


Not sure reTweet count is the best barometer of how customers are feeling about a company.

https://fortune.com/2021/05/12/delta-fl ... ion-study/

First #1 for DAL since 1995.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 4:23 am

afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Meh...DL vastly outperformed its legacy competitors for years pre pandemic, so the unhinged manifesto of a crazy person doesn't change that. The proof of every carriers' pandemic response won't be realized for months in any case.


It's not so much not being able to focus on their core business during a pandemic while getting involved in politics it's more getting involved in politics is negatively impacting their core business in addition to the pandemic.

DL has been one of the best, if not the best run legacy carrier in the country for years. Period. Regardless of what conservatives are whining about. The end.

afcjets wrote:
"On the weekend, #BoycottDelta was one of the top trending hashtags on Twitter. As of Monday night, it had been used in more than 38,000 tweets since March 23."

https://www.ajc.com/news/business/delta ... 4WVOQ5YE4/

Some of the sadder straw-grasping I've ever seen. DL carried 204M pax in 2019, so 38,000 tweets is 0.0187% of that. And most of them probably couldn't spell Delta if their life depended on it. Be blessed and enjoy Greyhound.
 
afcjets
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:37 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Not sure reTweet count is the best barometer of how customers are feeling about a company.

https://fortune.com/2021/05/12/delta-fl ... ion-study/

First #1 for DAL since 1995.


"Overall, it was the top performer in four of the eight factors evaluated in the study. (The survey has passengers rank airlines in the following categories: aircraft, baggage, boarding, check-in, cost and fees, flight crew, in-flight services, and reservations.)"

I would actually put Delta at the top of every one of these categories and why they have almost always been my first choice. I even prefer connecting on Delta than a non-stop on their competitors in most cases.

I don't need Twitter or Trump to tell me who I should fly, but it won't be Delta anytime soon if I can help it. No retweet necessary, just going to fly another airline.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:02 am

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Not sure reTweet count is the best barometer of how customers are feeling about a company.

https://fortune.com/2021/05/12/delta-fl ... ion-study/

First #1 for DAL since 1995.


"Overall, it was the top performer in four of the eight factors evaluated in the study. (The survey has passengers rank airlines in the following categories: aircraft, baggage, boarding, check-in, cost and fees, flight crew, in-flight services, and reservations.)"

I would actually put Delta at the top of every one of these categories and why they have almost always been my first choice. I even prefer connecting on Delta than a non-stop on their competitors in most cases.

I don't need Twitter or Trump to tell me who I should fly, but it won't be Delta anytime soon if I can help it. No retweet necessary, just going to fly another airline.


Putting identity politics over enjoying life is your choice. Just makes very little sense at the end of the day if you like a product or service.
 
afcjets
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:14 am

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Not sure reTweet count is the best barometer of how customers are feeling about a company.

https://fortune.com/2021/05/12/delta-fl ... ion-study/

First #1 for DAL since 1995.


"Overall, it was the top performer in four of the eight factors evaluated in the study. (The survey has passengers rank airlines in the following categories: aircraft, baggage, boarding, check-in, cost and fees, flight crew, in-flight services, and reservations.)"

I would actually put Delta at the top of every one of these categories and why they have almost always been my first choice. I even prefer connecting on Delta than a non-stop on their competitors in most cases.

I don't need Twitter or Trump to tell me who I should fly, but it won't be Delta anytime soon if I can help it. No retweet necessary, just going to fly another airline.


Putting identity politics over enjoying life is your choice. Just makes very little sense at the end of the day if you like a product or service.


I don't fly much anymore (even before last year) so it's not going to have much impact on me or Delta obviously. I also don't think Ed is going to be there much longer, even if the board of directors doesn't show him the door. I think he has political aspirations and he doesn't even seem to like the airline industry very much, just my opinion.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:22 am

While I cannot speak to what this now former DL employee did or did not do, the letter does point to one thing; corporate activism, and it’s on the rise. While company execs may find it trendy or even truly believe in crafting an official company position on any social/political issues, those positions do run the risk of alienating a segment of customers and employees alike.

Companies are free to make these stands, but regardless of what they hitch the corporate wagon to, they do so at their own peril.

As I’m told Michael Jordan once said regarding avoiding company activism, “Republicans buy sneakers, too.”
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:29 am

EA CO AS wrote:
While I cannot speak to what this now former DL employee did or did not do, the letter does point to one thing; corporate activism, and it’s on the rise. While company execs may find it trendy or even truly believe in crafting an official company position on any social/political issues, those positions do run the risk of alienating a segment of customers and employees alike.

Companies are free to make these stands, but regardless of what they hitch the corporate wagon to, they do so at their own peril.

As I’m told Michael Jordan once said regarding avoiding company activism, “Republicans buy sneakers, too.”


Perhaps, but things are more divided now than in the 80s or 90s. The calculation at a lot of companies is that the lion's share of their markets (and the primary economy) is in the 25 largest metropolitan areas, which are increasingly not-red. Taking stands on issues popular in these places is something those customer bases will not object to, and in fact may *expect* of corporations in those cities. So from another perspective, they remain neutral at their peril. Obviously these calculations are not good for the country long-term, but corporations are not concerned with that. They will chase market share in whatever form it takes, politics and the country be damned. That's their job.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:08 pm

afcjets wrote:
I don't need Twitter or Trump to tell me who I should fly, but it won't be Delta anytime soon if I can help it. No retweet necessary, just going to fly another airline.

Byeeeeeeee :rotfl:
 
n9801f
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:15 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
While I cannot speak to what this now former DL employee did or did not do, the letter does point to one thing; corporate activism, and it’s on the rise. While company execs may find it trendy or even truly believe in crafting an official company position on any social/political issues, those positions do run the risk of alienating a segment of customers and employees alike.

Companies are free to make these stands, but regardless of what they hitch the corporate wagon to, they do so at their own peril.

As I’m told Michael Jordan once said regarding avoiding company activism, “Republicans buy sneakers, too.”

Yes, corporate activism has risks.

Nobody's yet mentioned how Bastian flip-flopped on the Georgia voting law.

Did he try to play both sides? If so both could be alienated.

He finally spoke out against the law too late to make a difference.

How is this kind of activism effective, and for whom?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/31/business/delta-coca-cola-georgia-voting-law.html
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:04 am

TomJoel wrote:
As a former executive, I've seen this before. To me, this "anonymous letter" is nothing more than a joke. This individual feels the company is not going in the direction they think it should, and they feel left out. First off, this employee should be terminated immediately. Secondly, the bologna about inclusion and promotion of political viewpoints is hogwash too. Yes, executives can do what they want; that's why they're executives. They earned that right, and this employee needs to learn their place and be quiet.


Firstly, I agree with 90% of what you say here. However, you sound like a snob and a half. No, executives cannot just do whatever they want and you sound incredibly elitist in saying this employee should “learn their place and be quiet”. Quite frankly, this type of thinking is scary and enables a culture of intimidation, corruption and fear in the workplace. You need to clarify exactly what executives can do because it sounds like you’re absolving them of all responsibility and ethical behavior. In the #MeToo era, your views on executive privileges are highly problematic.

Ultimately, executives are the authority within a building for a few hours a day. They’re just average people on the outside, therefore, they’re expected to behave properly like everyone else. I’d actually say that your opinions are the opposite in what an executive should be and that you shouldn’t come anywhere near management.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sun Jun 06, 2021 6:19 am

CitizenJustin wrote:
TomJoel wrote:
As a former executive, I've seen this before. To me, this "anonymous letter" is nothing more than a joke. This individual feels the company is not going in the direction they think it should, and they feel left out. First off, this employee should be terminated immediately. Secondly, the bologna about inclusion and promotion of political viewpoints is hogwash too. Yes, executives can do what they want; that's why they're executives. They earned that right, and this employee needs to learn their place and be quiet.


Firstly, I agree with 90% of what you say here. However, you sound like a snob and a half. No, executives cannot just do whatever they want and you sound incredibly elitist in saying this employee should “learn their place and be quiet”. Quite frankly, this type of thinking is scary and enables a culture of intimidation, corruption and fear in the workplace. You need to clarify exactly what executives can do because it sounds like you’re absolving them of all responsibility and ethical behavior. In the #MeToo era, your views on executive privileges are highly problematic.

Ultimately, executives are the authority within a building for a few hours a day. They’re just average people on the outside, therefore, they’re expected to behave properly like everyone else. I’d actually say that your opinions are the opposite in what an executive should be and that you shouldn’t come anywhere near management.


Seconded. I missed the comment, but such a perspective is toxic within any organization seeking to be functional.
 
afcjets
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:14 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
TomJoel wrote:
As a former executive, I've seen this before. To me, this "anonymous letter" is nothing more than a joke. This individual feels the company is not going in the direction they think it should, and they feel left out. First off, this employee should be terminated immediately. Secondly, the bologna about inclusion and promotion of political viewpoints is hogwash too. Yes, executives can do what they want; that's why they're executives. They earned that right, and this employee needs to learn their place and be quiet.


Firstly, I agree with 90% of what you say here. However, you sound like a snob and a half. No, executives cannot just do whatever they want and you sound incredibly elitist in saying this employee should “learn their place and be quiet”. Quite frankly, this type of thinking is scary and enables a culture of intimidation, corruption and fear in the workplace. You need to clarify exactly what executives can do because it sounds like you’re absolving them of all responsibility and ethical behavior. In the #MeToo era, your views on executive privileges are highly problematic.

Ultimately, executives are the authority within a building for a few hours a day. They’re just average people on the outside, therefore, they’re expected to behave properly like everyone else. I’d actually say that your opinions are the opposite in what an executive should be and that you shouldn’t come anywhere near management.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

I agree with Justin 100% and would also add CEOs are accountable to the board of directors and shareholders and are obviously not above the law.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:23 pm

afcjets wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
TomJoel wrote:
As a former executive, I've seen this before. To me, this "anonymous letter" is nothing more than a joke. This individual feels the company is not going in the direction they think it should, and they feel left out. First off, this employee should be terminated immediately. Secondly, the bologna about inclusion and promotion of political viewpoints is hogwash too. Yes, executives can do what they want; that's why they're executives. They earned that right, and this employee needs to learn their place and be quiet.


Firstly, I agree with 90% of what you say here. However, you sound like a snob and a half. No, executives cannot just do whatever they want and you sound incredibly elitist in saying this employee should “learn their place and be quiet”. Quite frankly, this type of thinking is scary and enables a culture of intimidation, corruption and fear in the workplace. You need to clarify exactly what executives can do because it sounds like you’re absolving them of all responsibility and ethical behavior. In the #MeToo era, your views on executive privileges are highly problematic.

Ultimately, executives are the authority within a building for a few hours a day. They’re just average people on the outside, therefore, they’re expected to behave properly like everyone else. I’d actually say that your opinions are the opposite in what an executive should be and that you shouldn’t come anywhere near management.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

I agree with Justin 100% and would also add CEOs are accountable to the board of directors and shareholders and are obviously not above the law.


Obviously not, but that's veering quite a ways from Bastian since he hasn't done anything illegal. In fact his early career was largely defined by being a fraudbuster.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:40 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
While I cannot speak to what this now former DL employee did or did not do, the letter does point to one thing; corporate activism, and it’s on the rise. While company execs may find it trendy or even truly believe in crafting an official company position on any social/political issues, those positions do run the risk of alienating a segment of customers and employees alike.

Companies are free to make these stands, but regardless of what they hitch the corporate wagon to, they do so at their own peril.

As I’m told Michael Jordan once said regarding avoiding company activism, “Republicans buy sneakers, too.”


Perhaps, but things are more divided now than in the 80s or 90s. The calculation at a lot of companies is that the lion's share of their markets (and the primary economy) is in the 25 largest metropolitan areas, which are increasingly not-red. Taking stands on issues popular in these places is something those customer bases will not object to, and in fact may *expect* of corporations in those cities. So from another perspective, they remain neutral at their peril. Obviously these calculations are not good for the country long-term, but corporations are not concerned with that. They will chase market share in whatever form it takes, politics and the country be damned. That's their job.

The people bellyaching about this certainly have no problem with a lot of these very same companies donating boat loads to republicans pushing election fraud lies, ramping up voter suppression, and trying to pass hundreds of bills in some of the ugliest display of anti LGBT insanity in a generation. The crocodile tears are...suspect. :roll:

But maybe I'm wrong and they'll call out Hobby Lobby and Chic Fil A right away. Not holding my breath though.
 
afcjets
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sun Jun 06, 2021 2:57 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

I agree with Justin 100% and would also add CEOs are accountable to the board of directors and shareholders and are obviously not above the law.


Obviously not, but that's veering quite a ways from Bastian since he hasn't done anything illegal. In fact his early career was largely defined by being a fraudbuster.


I am not referring to Ed, I am referring to who Justin and I quoted when they said executives can do whatever they want.
 
alfa164
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:07 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
The people bellyaching about this certainly have no problem with a lot of these very same companies donating boat loads to republicans pushing election fraud lies, ramping up voter suppression, and trying to pass hundreds of bills in some of the ugliest display of anti LGBT insanity in a generation. The crocodile tears are...suspect. :roll:

But maybe I'm wrong and they'll call out Hobby Lobby and Chic Fil A right away. Not holding my breath though.


This! . The same people who whine about Delta's positions - which are meant to defend their employees' rights - are the ones defending the neanderthals who seek special treatment for "religious" feelings, reject equal rights, deny medical protections, and expect their employees to conform to a narrow-minded doctrine because "that's what the boss believes".

Those crocodile tears are more than suspect; they are laughable.

:roll:
 
n9801f
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:10 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
While I cannot speak to what this now former DL employee did or did not do, the letter does point to one thing; corporate activism, and it’s on the rise. While company execs may find it trendy or even truly believe in crafting an official company position on any social/political issues, those positions do run the risk of alienating a segment of customers and employees alike.

Companies are free to make these stands, but regardless of what they hitch the corporate wagon to, they do so at their own peril.

As I’m told Michael Jordan once said regarding avoiding company activism, “Republicans buy sneakers, too.”


Perhaps, but things are more divided now than in the 80s or 90s. The calculation at a lot of companies is that the lion's share of their markets (and the primary economy) is in the 25 largest metropolitan areas, which are increasingly not-red. Taking stands on issues popular in these places is something those customer bases will not object to, and in fact may *expect* of corporations in those cities. So from another perspective, they remain neutral at their peril. Obviously these calculations are not good for the country long-term, but corporations are not concerned with that. They will chase market share in whatever form it takes, politics and the country be damned. That's their job.

The people bellyaching about this certainly have no problem with a lot of these very same companies donating boat loads to republicans pushing election fraud lies, ramping up voter suppression, and trying to pass hundreds of bills in some of the ugliest display of anti LGBT insanity in a generation. The crocodile tears are...suspect. :roll:

But maybe I'm wrong and they'll call out Hobby Lobby and Chic Fil A right away. Not holding my breath though.

Honestly, I care more about what a company does (actions toward customers and personnel) than what it says (political proclamations).

And frankly, I wish the companies I patronize would just keep their political opinions to themselves! Similar to actors/actresses, just because someone holds a microphone doesn't qualify them to comment on topics outside the scope of their work.

If a company hires (action) only employees who look a certain way, then I'll certainly avoid it. Same if it fires (action) or otherwise mistreats a class of employees.

But if it's not doing those things, then I consider its political beliefs none of my business, just as mine are none of its concern. We're both there to do a business transaction, not proselytize.

So for me, corporate activism is inappropriate. It's like bringing up a rude topic needlessly.

And it's farcical when the "heartfelt activism" comes out of both sides of their mouths, as when Bastian spoke on the Georgia voting law. (What does he really believe, after all?)

Perhaps the comment above reveals the true colors of corporate activism -- "Obviously these calculations are not good for the country long-term, but corporations are not concerned with that. They will chase market share in whatever form it takes, politics and the country be damned." -- a brazenly pandering motivation rather than a true conviction.
Last edited by n9801f on Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
afcjets
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:18 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
The people bellyaching about this certainly have no problem with a lot of these very same companies donating boat loads to republicans pushing election fraud lies, ramping up voter suppression, and trying to pass hundreds of bills in some of the ugliest display of anti LGBT insanity in a generation. The crocodile tears are...suspect. :roll:

But maybe I'm wrong and they'll call out Hobby Lobby and Chic Fil A right away. Not holding my breath though.


If Delta's CEO wants to publicly claim asking for voter id is racist and it's a lie the 2020 election was stolen (which btw according to a recent Rasmussen poll is a minority opinion (the point isn't to debate the validity of the poll, it's the CEO is alienating a significant number of their passengers by stating Delta's position on it)) that's great! The difference between him and Chick-fil-A's CEO is when he publicly stated his opposition to same sex marriage, he didn't say it was Chick fil A's position or policy like Ed did, big difference.

"Last week, the Georgia legislature passed a sweeping voting reform act that could make it harder for many Georgians, particularly those in our Black and Brown communities, to exercise their right to vote,” Bastian said in a staff memo Wednesday.

Since the bill’s inception, Delta joined other major Atlanta corporations to work closely with elected officials from both parties, to try and remove some of the most egregious measures from the bill,” Bastian wrote. “We had some success in eliminating the most suppressive tactics that some had proposed. However, I need to make it crystal clear that the final bill is unacceptable and does not match Delta’s values.”

“"The entire rationale for this bill was based on a lie: that there was widespread voter fraud in Georgia in the 2020 elections. This is simply not true,” Bastian said. “Unfortunately, that excuse is being used in states across the nation that are attempting to pass similar legislation to restrict voting rights.”"

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/delta-c ... media.html

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public ... scriminate
 
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seb146
Posts: 23981
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:19 pm

afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
The people bellyaching about this certainly have no problem with a lot of these very same companies donating boat loads to republicans pushing election fraud lies, ramping up voter suppression, and trying to pass hundreds of bills in some of the ugliest display of anti LGBT insanity in a generation. The crocodile tears are...suspect. :roll:

But maybe I'm wrong and they'll call out Hobby Lobby and Chic Fil A right away. Not holding my breath though.


If Delta's CEO wants to publicly claim asking for voter id is racist and it's a lie the 2020 election was stolen (which btw according to a recent Rasmussen poll is a minority opinion (the point isn't to debate the validity of the poll, it's the CEO is alienating a significant number of their passengers by stating Delta's position on it)) that's great! The difference between him and Chick-fil-A's CEO is when he publicly stated his opposition to same sex marriage, he didn't say it was Chick fil A's position or policy like Ed did, big difference.

"Last week, the Georgia legislature passed a sweeping voting reform act that could make it harder for many Georgians, particularly those in our Black and Brown communities, to exercise their right to vote,” Bastian said in a staff memo Wednesday.

Since the bill’s inception, Delta joined other major Atlanta corporations to work closely with elected officials from both parties, to try and remove some of the most egregious measures from the bill,” Bastian wrote. “We had some success in eliminating the most suppressive tactics that some had proposed. However, I need to make it crystal clear that the final bill is unacceptable and does not match Delta’s values.”

“"The entire rationale for this bill was based on a lie: that there was widespread voter fraud in Georgia in the 2020 elections. This is simply not true,” Bastian said. “Unfortunately, that excuse is being used in states across the nation that are attempting to pass similar legislation to restrict voting rights.”"

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/delta-c ... media.html

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public ... scriminate


There is a huge difference between voting and letting people live their best life. Besides, Georgia already had voter ID laws on the books.

https://law.georgia.gov/press-releases/ ... titutional

But, because of The Big Lie, Republican states decided they had to do something to remain in power without doing any of the actual work. That means making it harder to vote.
 
n9801f
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sun Jun 06, 2021 5:42 pm

Whatever your belief about the Georgia voting law, the statements from Delta/Bastian are contradictory.:

March 25
SB202 became law

March 26
"The legislation signed this week improved considerably during the legislative process"
https://news.delta.com/delta-statement-sb202

March 31
"However, I need to make it crystal clear that the final bill is unacceptable and does not match Delta’s values."
https://news.delta.com/ed-bastian-memo-your-right-vote

I don't find these to be the words of a fierce, unbending advocate. At first it was OK, until there was some inconvenient blowback?

If you wanted to make a difference, the time for strong statements was before the bill was enacted.
 
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sun Jun 06, 2021 7:05 pm

afcjets wrote:
If Delta's CEO wants to publicly claim asking for voter id is racist and it's a lie the 2020 election was stolen

:checkmark: It *is* a lie that that the election was stolen--GA's republican leadership has said this many times
:checkmark: Georgia's--and the GOP in general--transparently racist voter suppression is well past voter ID. They just look when and where the people they don't like are voting, and reduce or cancel access.

afcjets wrote:
The difference between him and Chick-fil-A's CEO is when he publicly stated his opposition to same sex marriage, he didn't say it was Chick fil A's position or policy like Ed did, big difference.

Chic Fil A explicitly donates to anti LGBT groups--how is that not the company's position?

afcjets wrote:
“"The entire rationale for this bill was based on a lie: that there was widespread voter fraud in Georgia in the 2020 elections. This is simply not true,” Bastian said.

These are similar words that GA's republican leadership used when trying to counter Trump and the GOP's disinformation campaign following the loss of the Presidential and then Senate elections. Facts do not care about white conservatives' feelings.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:17 pm

seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
The people bellyaching about this certainly have no problem with a lot of these very same companies donating boat loads to republicans pushing election fraud lies, ramping up voter suppression, and trying to pass hundreds of bills in some of the ugliest display of anti LGBT insanity in a generation. The crocodile tears are...suspect. :roll:

But maybe I'm wrong and they'll call out Hobby Lobby and Chic Fil A right away. Not holding my breath though.


If Delta's CEO wants to publicly claim asking for voter id is racist and it's a lie the 2020 election was stolen (which btw according to a recent Rasmussen poll is a minority opinion (the point isn't to debate the validity of the poll, it's the CEO is alienating a significant number of their passengers by stating Delta's position on it)) that's great! The difference between him and Chick-fil-A's CEO is when he publicly stated his opposition to same sex marriage, he didn't say it was Chick fil A's position or policy like Ed did, big difference.

"Last week, the Georgia legislature passed a sweeping voting reform act that could make it harder for many Georgians, particularly those in our Black and Brown communities, to exercise their right to vote,” Bastian said in a staff memo Wednesday.

Since the bill’s inception, Delta joined other major Atlanta corporations to work closely with elected officials from both parties, to try and remove some of the most egregious measures from the bill,” Bastian wrote. “We had some success in eliminating the most suppressive tactics that some had proposed. However, I need to make it crystal clear that the final bill is unacceptable and does not match Delta’s values.”

“"The entire rationale for this bill was based on a lie: that there was widespread voter fraud in Georgia in the 2020 elections. This is simply not true,” Bastian said. “Unfortunately, that excuse is being used in states across the nation that are attempting to pass similar legislation to restrict voting rights.”"

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/delta-c ... media.html

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public ... scriminate


There is a huge difference between voting and letting people live their best life. Besides, Georgia already had voter ID laws on the books.

https://law.georgia.gov/press-releases/ ... titutional

But, because of The Big Lie, Republican states decided they had to do something to remain in power without doing any of the actual work. That means making it harder to vote.


Voting should be hard for people who aren't qualified to vote.

But it should not be excessively burdensome for people who are qualified. Both sides are talking past each other. There is no legitimate disagreement.
 
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sun Jun 06, 2021 8:38 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Voting should be hard for people who aren't qualified to vote.

Who isn't "qualified to vote" and who makes that determination?

LCDFlight wrote:
Both sides are talking past each other. There is no legitimate disagreement.

No, conservatives have been trying to restrict the vote to wealthy, white males since the founding of the country. The reason GA tried, and TX passed a ban on voting on Sunday morning when black people have been known to vote in large numbers is not a coincidence. It is 100% on purpose. And it has nothing to do with "voter integrity". In fact not a single voter suppression law passed by the GOP this year has to do with voter integrity, as they can't point to any significant voter fraud, and in most cases the 2020 election was carried out by GOP rules set by GOP leadership.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:03 pm

n9801f wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Perhaps, but things are more divided now than in the 80s or 90s. The calculation at a lot of companies is that the lion's share of their markets (and the primary economy) is in the 25 largest metropolitan areas, which are increasingly not-red. Taking stands on issues popular in these places is something those customer bases will not object to, and in fact may *expect* of corporations in those cities. So from another perspective, they remain neutral at their peril. Obviously these calculations are not good for the country long-term, but corporations are not concerned with that. They will chase market share in whatever form it takes, politics and the country be damned. That's their job.

The people bellyaching about this certainly have no problem with a lot of these very same companies donating boat loads to republicans pushing election fraud lies, ramping up voter suppression, and trying to pass hundreds of bills in some of the ugliest display of anti LGBT insanity in a generation. The crocodile tears are...suspect. :roll:

But maybe I'm wrong and they'll call out Hobby Lobby and Chic Fil A right away. Not holding my breath though.

Honestly, I care more about what a company does (actions toward customers and personnel) than what it says (political proclamations).

And frankly, I wish the companies I patronize would just keep their political opinions to themselves! Similar to actors/actresses, just because someone holds a microphone doesn't qualify them to comment on topics outside the scope of their work.

If a company hires (action) only employees who look a certain way, then I'll certainly avoid it. Same if it fires (action) or otherwise mistreats a class of employees.

But if it's not doing those things, then I consider its political beliefs none of my business, just as mine are none of its concern. We're both there to do a business transaction, not proselytize.

So for me, corporate activism is inappropriate. It's like bringing up a rude topic needlessly.

And it's farcical when the "heartfelt activism" comes out of both sides of their mouths, as when Bastian spoke on the Georgia voting law. (What does he really believe, after all?)

Perhaps the comment above reveals the true colors of corporate activism -- "Obviously these calculations are not good for the country long-term, but corporations are not concerned with that. They will chase market share in whatever form it takes, politics and the country be damned." -- a brazenly pandering motivation rather than a true conviction.


At the end of the day, the difference between pandering and true conviction is irrelevant to the board. They want market share, period. If the data on the ground tells them this stance is what their primary market of urban/suburban professionals want/expect, then it is what they will adopt. There is nothing especially controversial about this, it’s just how things are. You may prefer companies stay out of things, but residents of the nation’s largest metro areas have a pretty consistent view of the so-called culture wars, and the din is loud enough that companies have taken notice.
 
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:26 pm

Discuss the topic, not other users. This is your warning.
 
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seb146
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:33 am

LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

If Delta's CEO wants to publicly claim asking for voter id is racist and it's a lie the 2020 election was stolen (which btw according to a recent Rasmussen poll is a minority opinion (the point isn't to debate the validity of the poll, it's the CEO is alienating a significant number of their passengers by stating Delta's position on it)) that's great! The difference between him and Chick-fil-A's CEO is when he publicly stated his opposition to same sex marriage, he didn't say it was Chick fil A's position or policy like Ed did, big difference.

"Last week, the Georgia legislature passed a sweeping voting reform act that could make it harder for many Georgians, particularly those in our Black and Brown communities, to exercise their right to vote,” Bastian said in a staff memo Wednesday.

Since the bill’s inception, Delta joined other major Atlanta corporations to work closely with elected officials from both parties, to try and remove some of the most egregious measures from the bill,” Bastian wrote. “We had some success in eliminating the most suppressive tactics that some had proposed. However, I need to make it crystal clear that the final bill is unacceptable and does not match Delta’s values.”

“"The entire rationale for this bill was based on a lie: that there was widespread voter fraud in Georgia in the 2020 elections. This is simply not true,” Bastian said. “Unfortunately, that excuse is being used in states across the nation that are attempting to pass similar legislation to restrict voting rights.”"

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/31/delta-c ... media.html

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public ... scriminate


There is a huge difference between voting and letting people live their best life. Besides, Georgia already had voter ID laws on the books.

https://law.georgia.gov/press-releases/ ... titutional

But, because of The Big Lie, Republican states decided they had to do something to remain in power without doing any of the actual work. That means making it harder to vote.


Voting should be hard for people who aren't qualified to vote.

But it should not be excessively burdensome for people who are qualified. Both sides are talking past each other. There is no legitimate disagreement.


But that's the thing: it is damn near impossible to vote if you are not qualified.

Voting is becoming harder for those who are qualified to vote. Because of Republicans.
 
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:57 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
The difference between him and Chick-fil-A's CEO is when he publicly stated his opposition to same sex marriage, he didn't say it was Chick fil A's position or policy like Ed did, big difference.

Chic Fil A explicitly donates to anti LGBT groups--how is that not the company's position?

It's possible Chick Fil A's intent when donating to the Salvation Army was to help poor people through a Christian charity and I bet most of Chick Fil A's heterosexual customers wouldn't take or pass the Fellowship of Christian Athlete's sexual purity pledge either.

"In March 2014, tax filings for 2012 showed the group stopped funding all but one organization which had been previously criticized, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.[2][3][4]

"In 2017, tax filings show that the number of groups supported by Chick-fil-A expanded to include The Salvation Army, which has been seen as counter to LGBTQ rights.[5][6][7] In November 2019, Chick-fil-A announced that it would not make contributions in 2020 to the Fellowship of Christian Athletes and The Salvation Army.[8][9] They did not establish any criteria for corporate donations that would rule out future contributions to anti-LGBTQ groups."

Whereas Delta's CEO explicitly announced his company's position on a political issue.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chick-f ... GBT_people
 
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:12 pm

afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
The difference between him and Chick-fil-A's CEO is when he publicly stated his opposition to same sex marriage, he didn't say it was Chick fil A's position or policy like Ed did, big difference.

Chic Fil A explicitly donates to anti LGBT groups--how is that not the company's position?

It's possible Chick Fil A's intent when donating to the Salvation Army was to help poor people through a Christian charity and I bet most of Chick Fil A's heterosexual customers wouldn't take or pass the Fellowship of Christian Athlete's sexual purity pledge either.

Totally irrelevant.

afcjets wrote:
"In March 2014, tax filings for 2012 showed the group stopped funding all but one organization which had been previously criticized, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes.[2][3][4]

"In 2017, tax filings show that the number of groups supported by Chick-fil-A expanded to include The Salvation Army, which has been seen as counter to LGBTQ rights.[5][6][7] In November 2019, Chick-fil-A announced that it would not make contributions in 2020 to the Fellowship of Christian Athletes and The Salvation Army.[8][9] They did not establish any criteria for corporate donations that would rule out future contributions to anti-LGBTQ groups."

Nothing has changed. You just give them a pass because it doesn't affect you.

Chick-fil-A is under attack over its CEO's ties to a Christian charity accused of trying to squash proposed LGBTQ protections.
https://www.businessinsider.com/chick-f ... ned-2021-6
 
afcjets
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Mon Jun 07, 2021 11:51 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Nothing has changed. You just give them a pass because it doesn't affect you.

Chick-fil-A is under attack over its CEO's ties to a Christian charity accused of trying to squash proposed LGBTQ protections.
https://www.businessinsider.com/chick-f ... ned-2021-6


You're right, the Fellowship of Christian Athlete's sexual purity pledge doesn't affect me.

And your linked article about Chick Fil A's CEO illustrates exactly the point I made earlier about how it's different with Delta's CEO:

"The chain itself does not donate to the Christian charity or political groups".

If Ed Bastian wants to spend the hundreds of millions Delta has paid him and donate every last dime to the DNC or any cause I disagree with, I would have way more respect for him than if he did it on behalf of Delta and their employees and stating these are our values. Just like he did when he made the statement the letter the opening post refers to.
 
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:03 am

afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Nothing has changed. You just give them a pass because it doesn't affect you.

Chick-fil-A is under attack over its CEO's ties to a Christian charity accused of trying to squash proposed LGBTQ protections.
https://www.businessinsider.com/chick-f ... ned-2021-6


You're right, the Fellowship of Christian Athlete's sexual purity pledge doesn't affect me.

And your linked article about Chick Fil A's CEO illustrates exactly the point I made earlier about how it's different with Delta's CEO:

"The chain itself does not donate to the Christian charity or political groups".

If Ed Bastian wants to spend the hundreds of millions Delta has paid him and donate every last dime to the DNC or any cause I disagree with, I would have way more respect for him than if he did it on behalf of Delta and their employees and stating these are our values. Just like he did when he made the statement the letter the opening post refers to.


A little bit of exaggeration there. Bastian’s net worth is estimated between $50 and $60m, depending on where you look.
 
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seb146
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:20 am

afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Nothing has changed. You just give them a pass because it doesn't affect you.

Chick-fil-A is under attack over its CEO's ties to a Christian charity accused of trying to squash proposed LGBTQ protections.
https://www.businessinsider.com/chick-f ... ned-2021-6


You're right, the Fellowship of Christian Athlete's sexual purity pledge doesn't affect me.

And your linked article about Chick Fil A's CEO illustrates exactly the point I made earlier about how it's different with Delta's CEO:

"The chain itself does not donate to the Christian charity or political groups".

If Ed Bastian wants to spend the hundreds of millions Delta has paid him and donate every last dime to the DNC or any cause I disagree with, I would have way more respect for him than if he did it on behalf of Delta and their employees and stating these are our values. Just like he did when he made the statement the letter the opening post refers to.


Why do you think CFA is closed on Sundays? He makes his money off peopel buying his over priced deep fried chicken and over priced deep fried potatoes and whatever else they have. He takes your money and gives it to causes that directly effect us. Like groups that oppose LGBTQ equality. That does not effect you since you are not part of the LGBTQ umbrella. I am just guessing based on the conversations we have had.

Again, I must point out that the CFA CEO is opposed to equality for all Americans while Delta CEO is speaking out in favor of equality for all Americans. I don't understand how Delta's CEO is bad but CFA CEO is good? They both have opinions, no one objects to that. We can disagree with them. But, one wants to limit freedoms, the other wants to keep them. Why should we be in favor of limiting freedoms for Americans?
 
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:38 pm

afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Nothing has changed. You just give them a pass because it doesn't affect you.

Chick-fil-A is under attack over its CEO's ties to a Christian charity accused of trying to squash proposed LGBTQ protections.
https://www.businessinsider.com/chick-f ... ned-2021-6


You're right, the Fellowship of Christian Athlete's sexual purity pledge doesn't affect me.

Uh no. The LGBT discrimination that Cathy and the GOP are funding/pushing does not affect you. Nor do the Jim Crow laws that conservatives are trying to resurrect affect you either, unless you vote by mail in which case you may be collateral damage. :rotfl:

MaverickM11 wrote:
Nothing has changed. You just give them a pass because it doesn't affect you.

Chick-fil-A is under attack over its CEO's ties to a Christian charity accused of trying to squash proposed LGBTQ protections.

And your linked article about Chick Fil A's CEO illustrates exactly the point I made earlier about how it's different with Delta's CEO:

"The chain itself does not donate to the Christian charity or political groups".

You yourself said the chain has no mechanism to ensure that, and frankly it "stopped"--if one is to believe them--in 2020. Not much of an achievement there. Conservatives were notably silent through all of that.
 
afcjets
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:14 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Nothing has changed. You just give them a pass because it doesn't affect you.

Chick-fil-A is under attack over its CEO's ties to a Christian charity accused of trying to squash proposed LGBTQ protections.
https://www.businessinsider.com/chick-f ... ned-2021-6
You're right, the Fellowship of Christian Athlete's sexual purity pledge doesn't affect me.
Uh no. The LGBT discrimination that Cathy and the GOP are funding/pushing does not affect you. Nor do the Jim Crow laws that conservatives are trying to resurrect affect you either, unless you vote by mail in which case you may be collateral damage. :rotfl:

Maybe, but nothing CFA does affects it's customers, yet what Delta does can affect the outcome of our elections if Delta's well publicized position of not wanting voter id requirements prevails.


MaverickM11 wrote:
You yourself said the chain has no mechanism to ensure that, and frankly it "stopped"--if one is to believe them--in 2020. Not much of an achievement there. Conservatives were notably silent through all of that.


The article I linked said it, not me, but no mechanism will ensure SJWs will be happy going forward with CFA or Delta. Some are now questioning if they should be going after Dolly Parton too.

“"Both-sides-ism rarely feels as benevolent as it does when coming from Parton,” mused the New York Times in 2019.
But as Parton’s 21st-century career revival continues, viewers are willing to see more sinister undertones in her “both-sides-ism.” After all, what do we do when “both sides” includes neo-Nazis and armed insurrectionists waving Confederate flags at the Capitol?

In a close reading of Parton’s career on Longreads in 2018, Jessica Wilkerson grapples with her own lifelong Dolly fandom, and specifically with the way the idea of whiteness underlies Dolly’s image. “She’s embraced by feminists and queer folks at the same time she is declared a queen by Confederate apologists,” Wilkerson writes. “Dolly-as-mountain-girl anchors her to an ancestral white home in the imaginations of white people, while her class-conscious and gender-transgressive performance of whiteness becomes a signifier for white progressives who embrace gender fluidity and working-class iconolatry."

In Wilkerson’s reading, Dolly is able to flirt with both sides of the political aisle — but at a cost. “Dolly Parton has built her empire on and with the debris of old, racist amusements and wrapped it in working-class signifiers and feminist politics,” Wilkerson concludes, nodding to Dolly Parton’s Dixie Stampede. “I ignored that fact for a long time because it didn’t fit the script of the feminist, working-class heroine I had conjured. But I also ignored how others’ attachment to Dolly is exactly because of her embrace of Dixie and her complex celebration of whiteness. And I have ignored how whiteness clings.”

Elsewhere in the article, Wilkerson investigates labor conditions at Dollywood, which Parton established in her hometown to bring jobs back to the area. Labor conditions there, Wilkerson finds, are not Edenic: It’s hard work, low pay (although above minimum wage), and patchy benefits.

“Dolly Parton promised jobs to her community; she did not promise well-paying jobs,” Wilkerson writes. “And while Dollywood does not pay the worst wages in Sevier County or in the theme park industry, the wages are significantly lower than those they replaced as the economy shifted from manufacturing to tourism.”

The idea that Parton’s theme park is not a labor paradise is probably not enough to get Dolly Parton canceled. Neither is the idea that she refuses to talk politics in public, or that she allows racists to like her, or that she rewrote her labor rights anthem to help sell Squarespace. But it is the sort of thing that makes the reflexively trendy worship of Dolly — like a recent petition to replace all Confederate monuments in Tennessee with statues of Dolly, “the ‘Jesus of Appalachia’” — start to feel a little lazy, even cartoonish."

https://www.vox.com/culture/22287463/do ... -explained
 
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seb146
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:30 pm

afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
You're right, the Fellowship of Christian Athlete's sexual purity pledge doesn't affect me.
Uh no. The LGBT discrimination that Cathy and the GOP are funding/pushing does not affect you. Nor do the Jim Crow laws that conservatives are trying to resurrect affect you either, unless you vote by mail in which case you may be collateral damage. :rotfl:

Maybe, but nothing CFA does affects it's customers, yet what Delta does can affect the outcome of our elections if Delta's well publicized position of not wanting voter id requirements prevails.


Georgia already had voter ID requirements before their Jim Crow style law was passed. And CFA board giving to hate groups DOES affect it's customers. Giving to causes that limit and take away rights from people who eat there.

As far as Dolly Parton, why cancel her because she brought jobs to her poor county? I read what you posted and don't get the whole "both sides" part. She saw a need and responded. She saw people were struggling and helped. Since the premise of the article is "both sides do it" what did Republicans do? Worked hard to take away health care, worked hard to take away housing, worked hard to keep wages low. But, yeah, both sides do it.
 
afcjets
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:47 pm

seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Uh no. The LGBT discrimination that Cathy and the GOP are funding/pushing does not affect you. Nor do the Jim Crow laws that conservatives are trying to resurrect affect you either, unless you vote by mail in which case you may be collateral damage. :rotfl:

Maybe, but nothing CFA does affects it's customers, yet what Delta does can affect the outcome of our elections if Delta's well publicized position of not wanting voter id requirements prevails.


Georgia already had voter ID requirements before their Jim Crow style law was passed. And CFA board giving to hate groups DOES affect it's customers. Giving to causes that limit and take away rights from people who eat there.

As far as Dolly Parton, why cancel her because she brought jobs to her poor county? I read what you posted and don't get the whole "both sides" part. She saw a need and responded. She saw people were struggling and helped. Since the premise of the article is "both sides do it" what did Republicans do? Worked hard to take away health care, worked hard to take away housing, worked hard to keep wages low. But, yeah, both sides do it.


I think you missed the point I was making. I don't think she should be cancelled. The point is if SJWs feel they need to consider if someone like her should be cancelled, there are no guidelines Delta or CFA could put in place that would prevent them from wanting more as nothing is ever enough. That's exactly what happened at Delta and one of the points the anonymous letter about Bastian was trying to make. Ed made the mistake of appeasing them one time and they turned on him with #boycottdelta when he first commented on the proposed Georgia law. Even though he reversed course immediately the article I linked further above said it might have been too late for the most militant ones. Worse, he had to go far enough in the opposite direction to appease most of them that conservatives ended up boycotting Delta too.
 
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:54 pm

afcjets wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
You're right, the Fellowship of Christian Athlete's sexual purity pledge doesn't affect me.
Uh no. The LGBT discrimination that Cathy and the GOP are funding/pushing does not affect you. Nor do the Jim Crow laws that conservatives are trying to resurrect affect you either, unless you vote by mail in which case you may be collateral damage. :rotfl:

Maybe, but nothing CFA does affects it's customers, yet what Delta does can affect the outcome of our elections if Delta's well publicized position of not wanting voter id requirements prevails.

Like I said, you're giving a pass for things you like (LGBT discrimination) because it doesn't affect you, while screaming bloody murder at things you don't like (minorities voting) because you're worried it'll affect you.
 
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seb146
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:55 pm

afcjets wrote:
seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Maybe, but nothing CFA does affects it's customers, yet what Delta does can affect the outcome of our elections if Delta's well publicized position of not wanting voter id requirements prevails.


Georgia already had voter ID requirements before their Jim Crow style law was passed. And CFA board giving to hate groups DOES affect it's customers. Giving to causes that limit and take away rights from people who eat there.

As far as Dolly Parton, why cancel her because she brought jobs to her poor county? I read what you posted and don't get the whole "both sides" part. She saw a need and responded. She saw people were struggling and helped. Since the premise of the article is "both sides do it" what did Republicans do? Worked hard to take away health care, worked hard to take away housing, worked hard to keep wages low. But, yeah, both sides do it.


I think you missed the point I was making. I don't think she should be cancelled. The point is if SJWs feel they need to consider if someone like her should be cancelled, there are no guidelines Delta or CFA could put in place that would prevent them from wanting more as nothing is ever enough. That's exactly what happened at Delta and one of the points the anonymous letter about Bastian was trying to make. Ed made the mistake of appeasing them one time and they turned on him with #boycottdelta when he first commented on the proposed Georgia law. Even though he reversed course immediately the article I linked further above said it might have been too late for the most militant ones. Worse, he had to go far enough in the opposite direction to appease most of them that conservatives ended up boycotting Delta too.


Again: Dolly Parton gives money to the needy, Delta's CEO wants Americans to have access to the ballot box, CFA gives money to limiting certain American's rights. How are those the same?
 
afcjets
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:34 am

seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Georgia already had voter ID requirements before their Jim Crow style law was passed. And CFA board giving to hate groups DOES affect it's customers. Giving to causes that limit and take away rights from people who eat there.

As far as Dolly Parton, why cancel her because she brought jobs to her poor county? I read what you posted and don't get the whole "both sides" part. She saw a need and responded. She saw people were struggling and helped. Since the premise of the article is "both sides do it" what did Republicans do? Worked hard to take away health care, worked hard to take away housing, worked hard to keep wages low. But, yeah, both sides do it.


I think you missed the point I was making. I don't think she should be cancelled. The point is if SJWs feel they need to consider if someone like her should be cancelled, there are no guidelines Delta or CFA could put in place that would prevent them from wanting more as nothing is ever enough. That's exactly what happened at Delta and one of the points the anonymous letter about Bastian was trying to make. Ed made the mistake of appeasing them one time and they turned on him with #boycottdelta when he first commented on the proposed Georgia law. Even though he reversed course immediately the article I linked further above said it might have been too late for the most militant ones. Worse, he had to go far enough in the opposite direction to appease most of them that conservatives ended up boycotting Delta too.


Again: Dolly Parton gives money to the needy, Delta's CEO wants Americans to have access to the ballot box, CFA gives money to limiting certain American's rights. How are those the same?


How would I know? You'll have to ask the SJWs contemplating canceling her.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Fri Jun 11, 2021 1:54 am

afcjets wrote:
seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Maybe, but nothing CFA does affects it's customers, yet what Delta does can affect the outcome of our elections if Delta's well publicized position of not wanting voter id requirements prevails.


Georgia already had voter ID requirements before their Jim Crow style law was passed. And CFA board giving to hate groups DOES affect it's customers. Giving to causes that limit and take away rights from people who eat there.

As far as Dolly Parton, why cancel her because she brought jobs to her poor county? I read what you posted and don't get the whole "both sides" part. She saw a need and responded. She saw people were struggling and helped. Since the premise of the article is "both sides do it" what did Republicans do? Worked hard to take away health care, worked hard to take away housing, worked hard to keep wages low. But, yeah, both sides do it.


I think you missed the point I was making. I don't think she should be cancelled. The point is if SJWs feel they need to consider if someone like her should be cancelled, there are no guidelines Delta or CFA could put in place that would prevent them from wanting more as nothing is ever enough. That's exactly what happened at Delta and one of the points the anonymous letter about Bastian was trying to make. Ed made the mistake of appeasing them one time and they turned on him with #boycottdelta when he first commented on the proposed Georgia law. Even though he reversed course immediately the article I linked further above said it might have been too late for the most militant ones. Worse, he had to go far enough in the opposite direction to appease most of them that conservatives ended up boycotting Delta too.


This is an assumption on your part. For all we know, Bastian's take on the voting law resulted from internal discussions with black DAL employees from management on down, not from response to SJWs on social media.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:49 am

Union time? :duck:
 
afcjets
Posts: 3832
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Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:28 am

Aaron747 wrote:
This is an assumption on your part. For all we know, Bastian's take on the voting law resulted from internal discussions with black DAL employees from management on down, not from response to SJWs on social media.


It was an assumption on CNN's part too then:

"Critics of the law quickly attacked Delta's statement and called for a boycott of the airline and some other Georgia-based companies such as Coca-Cola (CCEP) and Home Depot (HD). Bastian responded with a new statement to employees early Wednesday that attacked the law, admitting that Delta (DAL) had changed its initial view."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/31/business ... index.html
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 16069
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:31 am

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
This is an assumption on your part. For all we know, Bastian's take on the voting law resulted from internal discussions with black DAL employees from management on down, not from response to SJWs on social media.


It was an assumption on CNN's part too then:

"Critics of the law quickly attacked Delta's statement and called for a boycott of the airline and some other Georgia-based companies such as Coca-Cola (CCEP) and Home Depot (HD). Bastian responded with a new statement to employees early Wednesday that attacked the law, admitting that Delta (DAL) had changed its initial view."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/31/business ... index.html


Things are often happening in parallel both inside and outside a large organization like DAL. It’s a complex world.
 
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seb146
Posts: 23981
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Anonymous letter of Delta employee to a CEO.

Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:24 am

afcjets wrote:
seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

I think you missed the point I was making. I don't think she should be cancelled. The point is if SJWs feel they need to consider if someone like her should be cancelled, there are no guidelines Delta or CFA could put in place that would prevent them from wanting more as nothing is ever enough. That's exactly what happened at Delta and one of the points the anonymous letter about Bastian was trying to make. Ed made the mistake of appeasing them one time and they turned on him with #boycottdelta when he first commented on the proposed Georgia law. Even though he reversed course immediately the article I linked further above said it might have been too late for the most militant ones. Worse, he had to go far enough in the opposite direction to appease most of them that conservatives ended up boycotting Delta too.


Again: Dolly Parton gives money to the needy, Delta's CEO wants Americans to have access to the ballot box, CFA gives money to limiting certain American's rights. How are those the same?


How would I know? You'll have to ask the SJWs contemplating canceling her.


I don't want to derail the thread but can you post a link about SJW wanting to cancel Dolly?

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