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ArchGuy1
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77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:28 am

Sunday marked the 77 year anniversary of the D Day invasion and this was a significant turning point in Europe during World War 2.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1447291&p=22272425&hilit=D+day+invasion#p22272425
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:45 am

I suggest watching the 2nd episode of 'Band of Brothers' and tell us how you think it felt to night jump into occupied France.
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N965UW
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:07 am

Aaron747 wrote:
I suggest watching the 2nd episode of 'Band of Brothers' and tell us how you think it felt to night jump into occupied France.


And then watch the opening scenes of Saving Private Ryan to get a glimpse of how horrifying it was to hit the beaches in the first wave.
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Aaron747
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:32 am

N965UW wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
I suggest watching the 2nd episode of 'Band of Brothers' and tell us how you think it felt to night jump into occupied France.


And then watch the opening scenes of Saving Private Ryan to get a glimpse of how horrifying it was to hit the beaches in the first wave.


As bad as that was, the depiction of landing on Peleliu in 'The Pacific' was even worse. Talk about one of the worst places you'd ever want to be, against an enemy you couldn't even see most of the time.
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sierrakilo44
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:47 am

There’s a lot more to the history of global conflict than Spielberg productions btw
 
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MrHMSH
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:02 am

What many won't realise is how close-run the invasion of France was. With overwhelming air and naval supremacy, experience from years of landings in the Pacific, North Africa and Italy, the best equipment available and the German Army pretty much pounded down to nothing on the Eastern front you'd think it was a foregone conclusion. In reality the invading forces didn't complete a number of objectives within the scheduled timeframe, and for a long time it was 50/50 as to whether it would succeed. Just goes to show how difficult it is to successfully invade a fortified country. Good for Western Europe that they were ultimately successful, things would be very different were they not.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 6:04 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
There’s a lot more to the history of global conflict than Spielberg productions btw


Obviously, but not everyone will read 1,000 page books like you or I might.
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Number6
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:03 am

A few years back, I watched a whole set of documentaries on National Geographic covering both wars. They pieced together footage (rare from the First World War) to tell the full story of the conflicts. They didn’t censor anything!

After watching that I concluded anyone who’d happily call for war should watch the same documentaries and see if they still wanted to go to war. The devastation, the killed, the wounded, let’s say it leaves an impression.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:16 am

Number6 wrote:
A few years back, I watched a whole set of documentaries on National Geographic covering both wars. They pieced together footage (rare from the First World War) to tell the full story of the conflicts. They didn’t censor anything!

After watching that I concluded anyone who’d happily call for war should watch the same documentaries and see if they still wanted to go to war. The devastation, the killed, the wounded, let’s say it leaves an impression.


There was also a good ten-part series on Netflix with colorized footage from all over the world. It was pretty riveting. Their documentary on the experience of French women during the war was also excellent.
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jetwet1
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:34 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
There’s a lot more to the history of global conflict than Spielberg productions btw

Absolutely, but, how to explain this.....We (I am an exec for a hotel casino group) ran a private screening for a group of veterans, most of them were visibly shaken by the opening scene, during it I felt horrible, to see how the film affected them was numbing to me.

Spielberg spent a lot of time making that scene as accurate as possible, it really showed the horrors they went through and how brave these (then) young men were.
 
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Aesma
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:36 am

The colorized footage stuff has been made in France for about a decade, the last one I saw covered the 1940 invasion. I knew of the exodus away from the invading armies and towards the south of France of course, but what I didn't know, not taught in school, was that at first there were orders to attack civilian convoys, and thus many civilians were killed by strafing aircraft, in an obvious war crime.

Then once Germany controlled the country the occupation forces had orders to be "nice", but that was a bit late...
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cjg225
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:20 pm

Every June 6th I watch The Longest Day as my remembrance of D-Day. I also have taken to watching a handful of videos I've found on YouTube over the years, like this one of an American veteran who subsequently lived in Belgium and was interviewed by the US Embassy in Brussels. Nothing particularly special or unusual about the guy's story, but one that always gets to me. He was in the same division as my grandfather, the 90th Infantry Division, one regiment of which landed at D-Day. I didn't think until yesterday to see if I could find out more about this guy because the 90th Infantry Division Association has a lot of good documents available for research; unfortunately, it looks like they took down their morning report archive, requiring you to be a part of the association and make a specific request now instead of just having it open to public view.
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casinterest
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:57 pm

As a kid, i was always more fascinated with the battle over the pacific with the stories of Pearl Harbor, Iwo Jima, Midway, Coral Sea.....

As I grew older I was more amazed by Operation Overlord, and the amount of effort and logistics it took to launch that campaign. Especially after Germany had gotten such a strong foothold in.
Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan really helped people envision the horrors of those battles that were initially fought. Yes some of the landings were lucky with rather defenseless beachheads, but Omaha was a big piece of the story.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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lightsaber
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:58 pm

D-Day turned to the tide. While the war was truly fought on the Eastern front, having to pull a third of the divisions off to fight on the Western front changed the momentum.

I don't understand dismissing films that accurately show the horror of war. Saving private Ryan really showed the uncertainty and sacrifice of the first weeks of D-day.

For some reason people try to dismiss or reduce the US contribution. There is no doubt others sacrificed and suffered. In no way does celibrating D-Day reduce their contribution.

The men who went ashore earned my respect.

Lightsaber
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Aaron747
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:03 pm

lightsaber wrote:
D-Day turned to the tide. While the war was truly fought on the Eastern front, having to pull a third of the divisions off to fight on the Western front changed the momentum.

I don't understand dismissing films that accurately show the horror of war. Saving private Ryan really showed the uncertainty and sacrifice of the first weeks of D-day.

For some reason people try to dismiss or reduce the US contribution. There is no doubt others sacrificed and suffered. In no way does celibrating D-Day reduce their contribution.

The men who went ashore earned my respect.

Lightsaber


Agreed. Such films are very valuable for people who may not ever travel to museums or read detailed books on the subject.

My curiosity in every aspect of both theatres was sparked by receiving this incredible book as a 15th birthday present:

https://www.amazon.com/2194-Days-War-Il ... B00E0JIWYI
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par13del
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:25 pm

A number of other countries have film industries, they need to push the war films that they made of their contributions to the war effort even if to just have them available for public access if they were not successful at the box office. I know growing up under the English system I read an awful lot of books about the English contribution, the critics then were that the contribution of the Commonwealth was greatly diminished, as always, there are always critics.
 
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cjg225
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:01 pm

lightsaber wrote:
D-Day turned to the tide. While the war was truly fought on the Eastern front, having to pull a third of the divisions off to fight on the Western front changed the momentum.

As I said in the thread from last year that was linked in the OP, World War II is way too complex of a topic to really point to any one event and call it a "turning point."

It is unquestionably one of the most important events in the entirety of the war, of course.
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johns624
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:14 pm

I visited Omaha Beach and environs in late June, 2019. I just missed the 75th anniversary by a few weeks. It was very moving, especially the cemetery overlooking the beach. Stephen Ambrose is a great storyteller but not the best historian. I much prefer Antony Beevor. He makes it interesting so that you read his books about things that don't really interest you. I read his books on Arnhem, D-Day, Stalingrad, Ardennes and the Fall of Berlin because they interested me. I also read his books on Crete and the Spanish Civil War because of his reputation and learned a lot that I didn't know.
 
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 3:11 pm

lightsaber wrote:
D-Day turned to the tide. While the war was truly fought on the Eastern front, having to pull a third of the divisions off to fight on the Western front changed the momentum.

I don't understand dismissing films that accurately show the horror of war. Saving private Ryan really showed the uncertainty and sacrifice of the first weeks of D-day.

For some reason people try to dismiss or reduce the US contribution. There is no doubt others sacrificed and suffered. In no way does celibrating D-Day reduce their contribution.

The men who went ashore earned my respect.

Lightsaber


It’s something that’s bothered me in recent years as well. Diminishing the US contribution to the war has become the “trendy” thing to do, particularly amongst those who don’t know history especially well.

I admit that before studying it extensively, I also thought of the war as being more of a competition; who contributed more, who took more, who lost the most, etc. Its a reasonable way to look at things, after all the war took place on such a massive scale and involved so many countries. And some, namely the US, did have the means to offer massive support.

But at least for me, the more I learned the more I pulled back from that perspective. It’s far too late now, but put yourself in 1946 or so. Ask a Soviet, American, German, British, Canadian, Italian, Greek (and so on...) family how they feel about their dead son/husband/whoever served and didn’t come back. Suddenly the competition of nations doesn’t matter quite so much.


Those were some courageous men. Young and surely scared, but on they went
 
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cjg225
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Re: 77 Years Since D Day Invasion

Mon Jun 07, 2021 4:56 pm

johns624 wrote:
I visited Omaha Beach and environs in late June, 2019. I just missed the 75th anniversary by a few weeks. It was very moving, especially the cemetery overlooking the beach. Stephen Ambrose is a great storyteller but not the best historian. I much prefer Antony Beevor. He makes it interesting so that you read his books about things that don't really interest you. I read his books on Arnhem, D-Day, Stalingrad, Ardennes and the Fall of Berlin because they interested me. I also read his books on Crete and the Spanish Civil War because of his reputation and learned a lot that I didn't know.

I was at the National World War II Museum in New Orleans in 2014 for the 70th Anniversary of D-Day. Certainly not the same as being in Normandy, but very good events put on by the Museum (which started out as the National D-Day Museum before transitioning to the entire war several years later). I would've loved to have been in either Normandy or the Museum again for the 75th Anniversary.

I've heard that critique of Ambrose many times. I haven't read all of his books, but the ones he has I've certainly enjoyed. I do prefer Cornelius Ryan's The Longest Day to D-Day, but D-Day has some good stuff. One specific section I reread yesterday is the section on destroyer support off Omaha Beach; I don't think that's covered much elsewhere, but I love the accounts Ambrose consolidated for that section. For some reason that little part of the huge overall picture has always interested me.
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