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Aesma
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France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Wed Jun 09, 2021 4:57 pm

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57342528

A French teenager has attended the first day of a trial against 13 people accused of sending abusive messages after she posted videos criticising Islam.

Mila was 16 when her first Instagram clip went viral.

She has since received 100,000 hate messages, her lawyer says, and lives under 24-hour police protection.

Ten men and three women aged between 18 and 30 are standing trial. Eight are accused of making death threats.


Have you heard about this story ?

In some countries she would be the one on trial, unfortunately.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
extender
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:00 pm

Why unfortunately? Criticism is good. If you don't like the message, don't read/watch/listen.
 
Newark727
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:02 pm

extender wrote:
Why unfortunately? Criticism is good. If you don't like the message, don't read/watch/listen.


I think Aesma was saying some countries would put the teenager on trial for criticizing Islam, rather than putting the people who sent her abusive messages on trial.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:54 pm

Aesma wrote:
Have you heard about this story?

No, and it's quite shocking. That's the problem with trying to integrate a medieval mindset into modern, pluralist democracies. And it's going to be one of the biggest problems facing Europe in the 21st century.
 
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Aesma
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:53 pm

In the US would "everything go" under freedom of speech, or would either group face consequences ? Has there been any similar court case ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
art
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:53 am

Braybuddy wrote:
That's the problem with trying to integrate a medieval mindset into modern, pluralist democracies.


Exactement. Beautifully succinct, if I may so say.
 
extender
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:06 am

Aesma wrote:
In the US would "everything go" under freedom of speech, or would either group face consequences ? Has there been any similar court case ?


I don't know where you are located, but yes, criticizing a religion is allowed.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:19 am

The problem with "criticism" is that many people confuse and think it's a licence for hate speech. Her comments has less to do with criticizing and more to do with xenophobia.
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avier
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Thu Jun 10, 2021 11:22 am

Braybuddy wrote:
That's the problem with trying to integrate a medieval mindset into modern, pluralist democracies.

If, however, they get called out for such behaviour, people would be termed something-phobe.
And the liberal media would go on to amplify it further, to make those who called out to feel guilty. Even the law enforcement agencies are complicit in this.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerscrut ... rrectness/
 
extender
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:06 pm

Is criticizing Islam for being homophobic considered xenophobic? Or for being misogynist?
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:39 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Her comments has less to do with criticizing and more to do with xenophobia.

What makes you think that?
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:48 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Her comments has less to do with criticizing and more to do with xenophobia.

What makes you think that?


From the BBC article

After Mila's original remarks, in which she described Islam as a "religion of hate", two opposing hashtags sprang up: #JeSuisMila (I am Mila) and #JeNeSuisPasMila.


Her comment was made after an interaction with one guy who said he was a Muslim. Just because the guy said mean things about her, does that mean that all Muslims share the same ideals as that guy?

That's like saying all French people are hateful people just because of Marine Le Pen.
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Braybuddy
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:58 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

After Mila's original remarks, in which she described Islam as a "religion of hate", two opposing hashtags sprang up: #JeSuisMila (I am Mila) and #JeNeSuisPasMila.


Her comment was made after an interaction with one guy who said he was a Muslim. Just because the guy said mean things about her, does that mean that all Muslims share the same ideals as that guy?

That's like saying all French people are hateful people just because of Marine Le Pen.

That's her viewpoint, but it's not xenophobia.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:03 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
TheFlyingDisk wrote:

After Mila's original remarks, in which she described Islam as a "religion of hate", two opposing hashtags sprang up: #JeSuisMila (I am Mila) and #JeNeSuisPasMila.


Her comment was made after an interaction with one guy who said he was a Muslim. Just because the guy said mean things about her, does that mean that all Muslims share the same ideals as that guy?

That's like saying all French people are hateful people just because of Marine Le Pen.

That's her viewpoint, but it's not xenophobia.


Well, she did preface her rant against Muslims by saying this

Recounting what happened next on popular French chatshow Le Quotidien on Monday, Mila said: “A guy was hitting on me heavily during the live, telling me 'you're beautiful, you're hot, what age are you?”

She duly informed those watching that she was a lesbian and that “blacks and Arabs” were not her type.

https://www.thelocal.fr/20200205/what-i ... and-islam/
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Aesma
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:18 pm

She didn't make any rant against Muslims (that would have been illegal) but against Islam which is legal. Saying that Islam is BS, etc.

I guess here too people focus on that, and the fact she received 100000 messages calling for her murder, rape, decapitation, etc., is honky dory.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
extender
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:29 pm

Hunky dory... IMO, she is free to express her viewpoint,whether I agree with it or not.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:55 pm

Aesma wrote:
In the US would "everything go" under freedom of speech, or would either group face consequences ? Has there been any similar court case ?


Government cannot limit speech in the US, whether it's about a group or individual, *unless* that speech directly incites violence. So the American legal take would be there's nothing the law would be concerned with whatever her comments about Muslims were. If people reacted to those comments and called her names back, again there would be no legal concern. Since some people overreacted and personally threatened her, if the threats were deemed serious by US law enforcement, they would be subject to legal action. And of course if a Muslim dude targeted her and specifically said or wrote he was punishing lesbians, or whatever else she identified as, he may risk hate crime prosecution on top of the rest.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:23 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Well, she did preface her rant against Muslims by saying this

Recounting what happened next on popular French chatshow Le Quotidien on Monday, Mila said: “A guy was hitting on me heavily during the live, telling me 'you're beautiful, you're hot, what age are you?”

She duly informed those watching that she was a lesbian and that “blacks and Arabs” were not her type.

https://www.thelocal.fr/20200205/what-i ... and-islam/

You can have personal preferences without being xenophobic. I assume the people who were hitting on her were French too.
 
art
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:04 pm

extender wrote:
Hunky dory... IMO, she is free to express her viewpoint,whether I agree with it or not.


I agree. What should not be tolerated is threats by people whose religion tells them that they have a licence to attack people who voice opinions contrary to the tenets of their religion eg what their religion sees as blasphemy.
 
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Aesma
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:44 pm

BTW her main critique was that Islam and the Koran are full of violence.

The response she got ? Death threats.

Way to prove her point.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aaron747
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Re: France Mila affair: Thirteen on trial over online abuse

Thu Jun 10, 2021 3:51 pm

Aesma wrote:
BTW her main critique was that Islam and the Koran are full of violence.

The response she got ? Death threats.

Way to prove her point.


The people who responded that way to her aren't exactly high watt bulbs.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty

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