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casinterest
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Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:55 pm

Trump and William Barr went out and got subpoena's from private companies to run surveillance on Political Enemies, and then got gag orders to hide keep the companies from informing the private citizens that their data was being monitored.

Exactly how much does Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy know about this, and how much of this was known to them while Trump was under impeachment for Abuse of Power?

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/11/politics ... index.html

The political opposition. Democratic lawmakers and their family members learned from Apple that the government had secretly obtained their communications only after the gag order expired. The targets included Schiff and Rep. Eric Swalwell of California, both Trump opponents routinely criticized by Trump throughout his time in office.
The press. We also learned this week that the Justice Department, apparently as part of aggressive leak investigations, sought and obtained reporters' communications records, including CNN's Barbara Starr, for June and July of 2017. It's not clear if the investigations are related.
RELATED: Trump administration pursued CNN reporter's records in months-long secret court battle
Three Washington Post reporters who covered the FBI's Russia investigation were told this month that in 2020 the Justice Department had obtained their phone records from 2017. The Department of Justice had earlier, in 2018, disclosed that it had obtained 2017 phone and email communications of reporters writing stories about the Russia investigation for BuzzFeed, Politico and The New York Times.
Social media companies. Court filings revealed last week that the Justice Department had subpoenaed Twitter in late November 2020 to try to learn the identity of the user behind a parody account that criticized Rep. Devin Nunes, a California Republican and Trump ally.
Last edited by casinterest on Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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scbriml
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:57 pm

I'm shocked! :liar:
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MaverickM11
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:09 pm

Did Trump use Kellyanne Conwoman's "microwaves that turn into cameras"?
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:20 pm

Insane. Plus Bill Barr now wants us to believe he had ‘no knowledge’ of these activities while also running sign-offs at his desk level for investigations into 2020 candidates. Nuts.
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wingman
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:42 pm

History won't be kind to these scumbags. But they'll still command the fealty of 30% of the electorate, and that's probably good enough for Trump and his litter of psychopaths to make hundreds of millions of dollars in Ponzi schemes for the stupid for another 40 years.
 
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seb146
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:22 am

With all of these abuses of power coming to light, how much longer with the Biden DOJ remain non partisan? I suspect they are not investigating much because of potential MAGA uproar but how long can that go on?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
ltbewr
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:50 am

I suspect many Congress members, their staff and family members will have to get 'burner phones'. This is disgusting, obscene, unconstitutional and even if leaks, they don't go to the level of needing such a level of investigation. Trump is scared of the truth leaking out of his corruption, especially with Russian oligarchs that he has no morals in abusing his powers. The appropriate Congressional committees, with Democrat party majorities, must subpoena Trump, Barr and a number of orders under threat of arrest to show up, give testimony and if lie, face jail for perjury. Of course Trump would refuse to respons and show up, on the grounds as a 'ex-President' (or in his perverted mind still President) and if he or Barr or others show up they would abuse the 5th Amendment and Republicans on the committees would muck it up to protect them.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:09 am

ltbewr wrote:
I suspect many Congress members, their staff and family members will have to get 'burner phones'. This is disgusting, obscene, unconstitutional and even if leaks, they don't go to the level of needing such a level of investigation. Trump is scared of the truth leaking out of his corruption, especially with Russian oligarchs that he has no morals in abusing his powers. The appropriate Congressional committees, with Democrat party majorities, must subpoena Trump, Barr and a number of orders under threat of arrest to show up, give testimony and if lie, face jail for perjury. Of course Trump would refuse to respons and show up, on the grounds as a 'ex-President' (or in his perverted mind still President) and if he or Barr or others show up they would abuse the 5th Amendment and Republicans on the committees would muck it up to protect them.


Perhaps when Mr. Putin remarked in today's interview that Trump was a 'very talented' individual, he was referring to his ability to bring Russian political traditions into the US fray.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:22 am

Aaron747 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
I suspect many Congress members, their staff and family members will have to get 'burner phones'. This is disgusting, obscene, unconstitutional and even if leaks, they don't go to the level of needing such a level of investigation. Trump is scared of the truth leaking out of his corruption, especially with Russian oligarchs that he has no morals in abusing his powers. The appropriate Congressional committees, with Democrat party majorities, must subpoena Trump, Barr and a number of orders under threat of arrest to show up, give testimony and if lie, face jail for perjury. Of course Trump would refuse to respons and show up, on the grounds as a 'ex-President' (or in his perverted mind still President) and if he or Barr or others show up they would abuse the 5th Amendment and Republicans on the committees would muck it up to protect them.


Perhaps when Mr. Putin remarked in today's interview that Trump was a 'very talented' individual, he was referring to his ability to bring Russian political traditions into the US fray.


Donald Trump indicates he still believes Vladimir Putin over US intelligence agencies
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame ... 6f14aacab2

"“As to who do I trust, they asked, Russia or our ‘Intelligence’ from the Obama era, meaning people like Comey, McCabe, the two lovers, Brennan, Clapper and numerous other sleazebags, or Russia, the answer, after all that has been found out and written, should be obvious.

“Our government has rarely had such lowlifes as these working for it. "

In case there was any doubt who conservatives stand with...
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:29 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
I suspect many Congress members, their staff and family members will have to get 'burner phones'. This is disgusting, obscene, unconstitutional and even if leaks, they don't go to the level of needing such a level of investigation. Trump is scared of the truth leaking out of his corruption, especially with Russian oligarchs that he has no morals in abusing his powers. The appropriate Congressional committees, with Democrat party majorities, must subpoena Trump, Barr and a number of orders under threat of arrest to show up, give testimony and if lie, face jail for perjury. Of course Trump would refuse to respons and show up, on the grounds as a 'ex-President' (or in his perverted mind still President) and if he or Barr or others show up they would abuse the 5th Amendment and Republicans on the committees would muck it up to protect them.


Perhaps when Mr. Putin remarked in today's interview that Trump was a 'very talented' individual, he was referring to his ability to bring Russian political traditions into the US fray.


Donald Trump indicates he still believes Vladimir Putin over US intelligence agencies
https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame ... 6f14aacab2

"“As to who do I trust, they asked, Russia or our ‘Intelligence’ from the Obama era, meaning people like Comey, McCabe, the two lovers, Brennan, Clapper and numerous other sleazebags, or Russia, the answer, after all that has been found out and written, should be obvious.

“Our government has rarely had such lowlifes as these working for it. "

In case there was any doubt who conservatives stand with...


'Inconvenient truth' for the MAGA army, as we have all known for years.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/kgb-groom ... -spy-says/

https://theconversation.com/donald-trum ... ent-154300

Not that they are interested in any of that. :sarcastic:
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:21 am

I’m so old I remember when the last Democratic administration did some of the same stuff. Every leaker who talks “on condition of anonymity because they’re not authorized to comment” should shut up. They’re not authorized for a reason, up against the wall.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... rosecution
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:25 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I’m so old I remember when the last Democratic administration did some of the same stuff. Every leaker who talks “on condition of anonymity because they’re not authorized to comment” should shut up. They’re not authorized for a reason, up against the wall.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... rosecution


It was wrong for that administration to seek information on journalists too. But this last one went beyond that and sought information on family members and communications dated well before the administration itself. Ridiculous.
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:39 am

Hitler*, Duerte, Erdogan, Xi, Putin - along with Trump all heroes of the American 'right'. Enemies, S. Korea, Japan, France, Germany, Canada - definitely enemies of the right.

*all of the Trump supporters carrying the Nazi flag.
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sierrakilo44
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:53 am

The Texan GOP AG admitted that Biden would’ve won Texas had they not have successfully stopped mail in ballots from being sent out:



https://secondnexus.com/ken-paxton-trump-lost-texas
 
Max Q
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:12 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I’m so old I remember when the last Democratic administration did some of the same stuff. Every leaker who talks “on condition of anonymity because they’re not authorized to comment” should shut up. They’re not authorized for a reason, up against the wall.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... rosecution



Not even close


The Democrats never cozied up to our enemies like chump did, furthermore they never treated the constitution as optional, tried to throw out a legitimate election by filing dozens of lawsuits that were rejected by republican judges then committed an insurrection in a last ditch, desperate attempt to stay in power illegally



Chump was the worst president in the history of the United States, he’s a deranged, racist criminal and a traitor that only cares about himself


He has to be locked up
Last edited by Max Q on Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:19 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I’m so old I remember when the last Democratic administration did some of the same stuff. Every leaker who talks “on condition of anonymity because they’re not authorized to comment” should shut up. They’re not authorized for a reason, up against the wall.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... rosecution

You're so old you can't even tell the difference between spying on journalists and spying on congressmen AND journalists. OK boomer.

Aaron747 wrote:
In case there was any doubt who conservatives stand with...

'Inconvenient truth' for the MAGA army, as we have all known for years.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/kgb-groom ... -spy-says/


I just don't know that I buy this...having grown up a bike ide from Trump most of my life, I just can't fathom someone 40 years ago thought "yah we really need to cultivate this D list celebrity, barely relevant developer, failson"...but what do I know? Useful idiot? 100% :rotfl:
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Max Q
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 4:22 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
The Texan GOP AG admitted that Biden would’ve won Texas had they not have successfully stopped mail in ballots from being sent out:



https://secondnexus.com/ken-paxton-trump-lost-texas



Yep

Voter suppression at its most ‘refined’ form

Remember how they fought tooth and nail to prevent drive through voting ? Anything to make voting more difficult in areas they know they’re behind in which is most these days


Basically the only way ‘republicans’ can win is by corrupting and suppressing the vote, they’ve been very successful at stacking the courts with right wing judges to assist in this


As the country gets less and less white they’re becoming more and more desperate to hold onto power, their worship of chump is emblematic of this


But like Blockbuster video, they’re past their due date
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GGg
 
luckyone
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:08 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I’m so old I remember when the last Democratic administration did some of the same stuff. Every leaker who talks “on condition of anonymity because they’re not authorized to comment” should shut up. They’re not authorized for a reason, up against the wall.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... rosecution

The obvious rebuttal to that is: Trump was supposed to be better than Obama and “Crooked Hillary.” Drain the swamp remember...all the while his shortcomings were far worse.
 
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johnboy
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:15 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I’m so old I remember when the last Democratic administration did some of the same stuff. Every leaker who talks “on condition of anonymity because they’re not authorized to comment” should shut up. They’re not authorized for a reason, up against the wall.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... rosecution


Gee, I’m old enough to remember the vast majority of sentient American citizens wouldn’t try to “whatabout” a treasonous scumbag like Trump.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:38 pm

johnboy wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I’m so old I remember when the last Democratic administration did some of the same stuff. Every leaker who talks “on condition of anonymity because they’re not authorized to comment” should shut up. They’re not authorized for a reason, up against the wall.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... rosecution


Gee, I’m old enough to remember the vast majority of sentient American citizens wouldn’t try to “whatabout” a treasonous scumbag like Trump.


Seriously, it still boggles the mind how many otherwise serious Americans discredit themselves offering up defense for such an obvious charlatan.
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seb146
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:26 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I’m so old I remember when the last Democratic administration did some of the same stuff. Every leaker who talks “on condition of anonymity because they’re not authorized to comment” should shut up. They’re not authorized for a reason, up against the wall.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... rosecution


So you think stopping leaks about classified information is the same as spying on political opponents? The article says just that: Obama was trying to stop people from leaking classified information.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:13 pm

seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I’m so old I remember when the last Democratic administration did some of the same stuff. Every leaker who talks “on condition of anonymity because they’re not authorized to comment” should shut up. They’re not authorized for a reason, up against the wall.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/ ... rosecution


So you think stopping leaks about classified information is the same as spying on political opponents? The article says just that: Obama was trying to stop people from leaking classified information.


it's not really that though. It is the fact that Trump., who claimed holy upon holy that he was going to get rid of the deep state, used and abused it just as he accused others of doing it.

It doesn't come as much surprise to those of us that realized the lies he was telling along with his blatant racism, cronyism, and other flaws. He was not a breath of fresh air except to those that still want to keep abusing the system
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
wingman
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:59 pm

And we cant ever forget that 95% of Republicans believed to their very core that Trump was going to ram it down the “Coastal Elites’” collective throats. And yet he himself was born a coastal elite who lived in gold plated penthouses in NYC and flew his personal jet to coastal private golf clubs while devising yet new rip off schemes to take money from the hordes of blue collar workers toiling away in fly over country. The 2016 election was the greatest suspension of disbelief since Bugs Bunny. 70M Republicans thought the rabbit was real and they still so! So much gray matter just blown out of their ears like so much dust into the wind. This kind of incurable ignorance is a fundamental threat to our way of life. It’s sickening.
 
Max Q
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:08 am

What’s become apparent is the right will do anything legal or illegal to stay in power including the wholesale donation of any values they ever had to a lying, cheating, treasonous racist criminal in the belief it would further that aim


They really don’t care about democracy, they believe a dictatorship would be fine as long as ‘their guy’s in charge’


What they’re too dumb to understand is, when you give someone absolute power they’re not just going to use it on your enemies, sooner or later they’ll turn on you



As hard as he tried to stack the courts however and pressure right wing judges to break the law and throw the election they wouldn’t do it


The judiciary system stood up to chump and saved our democracy


Now they need to finish the job and put him in prison
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LCDFlight
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:57 pm

I fail to see how adults who have worked in large organizations can claim there is “no such thing as a deep state.”

It is in the nature of large organizations to have clouded lines of sight and corroded purpose. A deep state (aka fiefdom, turf, skunk works, kingdom) takes care of members’ needs or wants first, citizens or oversight second. It is childish to think that a US President magically “oversees” all federal employees and can dissect disagreements within the intelligence community. The US government is far too big to manage like that. There are dozens of deep states within it. The largest is the one you see in DC, where thousands of officials socialize and plot together over a good drink or meal, frequently with a lobbyist or two.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:05 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
I fail to see how adults who have worked in large organizations can claim there is “no such thing as a deep state.”

It is in the nature of large organizations to have clouded lines of sight and corroded purpose. A deep state (aka fiefdom, turf, skunk works, kingdom) takes care of members’ needs or wants first, citizens or oversight second. It is childish to think that a US President magically “oversees” all federal employees and can dissect disagreements within the intelligence community. The US government is far too big to manage like that. There are dozens of deep states within it. The largest is the one you see in DC, where thousands of officials socialize and plot together over a good drink or meal, frequently with a lobbyist or two.


The latter sentence sounds like the lobby of the Trump Hotel in DC the last four years...just going to show that nobody claiming they can clean up the swamp is able/willing to do so.
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WIederling
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:08 pm

casinterest wrote:
Trump and William Barr went out and got subpoena's from private companies to run surveillance on Political Enemies, and then got gag orders to hide keep the companies from informing the private citizens that their data was being monitored.


This was done at least as far back as Bush43.
( illegal access to data made "invisible" by gag orders.)
I seem to remember a run of cases supported by the ACLU?
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LCDFlight
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:13 pm

wingman wrote:
And we cant ever forget that 95% of Republicans believed to their very core that Trump was going to ram it down the “Coastal Elites’” collective throats. And yet he himself was born a coastal elite who lived in gold plated penthouses in NYC and flew his personal jet to coastal private golf clubs while devising yet new rip off schemes to take money from the hordes of blue collar workers toiling away in fly over country. The 2016 election was the greatest suspension of disbelief since Bugs Bunny. 70M Republicans thought the rabbit was real and they still so! So much gray matter just blown out of their ears like so much dust into the wind. This kind of incurable ignorance is a fundamental threat to our way of life. It’s sickening.


The way I see it, Trump was never truly a coastal elite. He has blue collar attitudes and tastes. The guy eats Mcdonald’s. He is a cartoonish fake rich clown. His criticism that coastal elites do not care about the median voter was accurate. It doesn’t matter if Saddam Hussein is the person saying so; it remains valid.

One of Trump’s finest tricks was he would make a correct statement, coastal elites would disagree strongly because he was Donald Trump, then he would win on the merits. I still can’t believe how people fell for that. We are talking about teams of well educated professionals and intellectuals, losing to Don Trump. (Major issues like China relations and the border, and the 2016 election itself). I also think Trump’s tax policy worked well. We were probably on our way to higher wages even without the Covid stimulus.

I had much lower expectations for Donald himself. He is just one guy with a couple advisors, and he’s not smart or particularly well informed. But he accurately spotted weaknesses in the establishment, having been spurned by it for many years. He hurt them badly.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:18 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
wingman wrote:
And we cant ever forget that 95% of Republicans believed to their very core that Trump was going to ram it down the “Coastal Elites’” collective throats. And yet he himself was born a coastal elite who lived in gold plated penthouses in NYC and flew his personal jet to coastal private golf clubs while devising yet new rip off schemes to take money from the hordes of blue collar workers toiling away in fly over country. The 2016 election was the greatest suspension of disbelief since Bugs Bunny. 70M Republicans thought the rabbit was real and they still so! So much gray matter just blown out of their ears like so much dust into the wind. This kind of incurable ignorance is a fundamental threat to our way of life. It’s sickening.


The way I see it, Trump was never truly a coastal elite. He has blue collar attitudes and tastes. The guy eats Mcdonald’s. He is a cartoonish fake rich clown. His criticism that coastal elites do not care about the median voter was accurate. It doesn’t matter if Saddam Hussein is the person saying so; it remains valid.

One of Trump’s finest tricks was he would make a correct statement, coastal elites would disagree strongly because he was Donald Trump, then he would win on the merits. I still can’t believe how people fell for that. We are talking about teams of well educated professionals and intellectuals, losing to Don Trump. (Major issues like China relations and the border, and the 2016 election itself). I also think Trump’s tax policy worked well. We were probably on our way to higher wages even without the Covid stimulus.

I had much lower expectations for Donald himself. He is just one guy with a couple advisors, and he’s not smart or particularly well informed. But he accurately spotted weaknesses in the establishment, having been spurned by it for many years. He hurt them badly.


It wasn't really him doing that, he's too dumb. He was coached on his speeches and approach by Chris Ruddy, Steve Bannon, and his son in law. Trump's only real talent is acting - he has been playing the same schtick since The Apprentice. He became his own character in the end.

As for having blue collar tastes, that's pretty debatable. His favorite two pastimes through most of his life have been golf and dinner parties. That's not very blue collar by any measure. His stated reason for liking fast food is because he trusts the QC and safety protocols required for them to stay in business.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
luckyone
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:58 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
wingman wrote:
And we cant ever forget that 95% of Republicans believed to their very core that Trump was going to ram it down the “Coastal Elites’” collective throats. And yet he himself was born a coastal elite who lived in gold plated penthouses in NYC and flew his personal jet to coastal private golf clubs while devising yet new rip off schemes to take money from the hordes of blue collar workers toiling away in fly over country. The 2016 election was the greatest suspension of disbelief since Bugs Bunny. 70M Republicans thought the rabbit was real and they still so! So much gray matter just blown out of their ears like so much dust into the wind. This kind of incurable ignorance is a fundamental threat to our way of life. It’s sickening.


The way I see it, Trump was never truly a coastal elite. He has blue collar attitudes and tastes. The guy eats Mcdonald’s. He is a cartoonish fake rich clown. His criticism that coastal elites do not care about the median voter was accurate. It doesn’t matter if Saddam Hussein is the person saying so; it remains valid.

One of Trump’s finest tricks was he would make a correct statement, coastal elites would disagree strongly because he was Donald Trump, then he would win on the merits. I still can’t believe how people fell for that. We are talking about teams of well educated professionals and intellectuals, losing to Don Trump. (Major issues like China relations and the border, and the 2016 election itself). I also think Trump’s tax policy worked well. We were probably on our way to higher wages even without the Covid stimulus.

I had much lower expectations for Donald himself. He is just one guy with a couple advisors, and he’s not smart or particularly well informed. But he accurately spotted weaknesses in the establishment, having been spurned by it for many years. He hurt them badly.


It wasn't really him doing that, he's too dumb. He was coached on his speeches and approach by Chris Ruddy, Steve Bannon, and his son in law. Trump's only real talent is acting - he has been playing the same schtick since The Apprentice. He became his own character in the end.

As for having blue collar tastes, that's pretty debatable. His favorite two pastimes through most of his life have been golf and dinner parties. That's not very blue collar by any measure. His stated reason for liking fast food is because he trusts the QC and safety protocols required for them to stay in business.

Trump may not be “elite,” but he’s hardly a “blue collar self made man.” His business success is irrevocably built on the success of his fathers real estate empire. His business endeavors outside that have been a very mixed bag suggesting that his business acumen is just as much a marketing fabrication as his blue collar creds. Just because he eats McDonalds doesn’t mean he has the foggiest clue what the realities of a blue collar family are—he and most of his siblings have always had access to the residuals from their fathers investments. He is a good self-promoter and can play the part and as we’ve seen he’s very good at manipulating the media. Which is nothing but ironic considering how the people who support him by and large decry the media, yet they’ve been played by him as he uses it.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sun Jun 13, 2021 3:04 pm

luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:

The way I see it, Trump was never truly a coastal elite. He has blue collar attitudes and tastes. The guy eats Mcdonald’s. He is a cartoonish fake rich clown. His criticism that coastal elites do not care about the median voter was accurate. It doesn’t matter if Saddam Hussein is the person saying so; it remains valid.

One of Trump’s finest tricks was he would make a correct statement, coastal elites would disagree strongly because he was Donald Trump, then he would win on the merits. I still can’t believe how people fell for that. We are talking about teams of well educated professionals and intellectuals, losing to Don Trump. (Major issues like China relations and the border, and the 2016 election itself). I also think Trump’s tax policy worked well. We were probably on our way to higher wages even without the Covid stimulus.

I had much lower expectations for Donald himself. He is just one guy with a couple advisors, and he’s not smart or particularly well informed. But he accurately spotted weaknesses in the establishment, having been spurned by it for many years. He hurt them badly.


It wasn't really him doing that, he's too dumb. He was coached on his speeches and approach by Chris Ruddy, Steve Bannon, and his son in law. Trump's only real talent is acting - he has been playing the same schtick since The Apprentice. He became his own character in the end.

As for having blue collar tastes, that's pretty debatable. His favorite two pastimes through most of his life have been golf and dinner parties. That's not very blue collar by any measure. His stated reason for liking fast food is because he trusts the QC and safety protocols required for them to stay in business.

Trump may not be “elite,” but he’s hardly a “blue collar self made man.” His business success is irrevocably built on the success of his fathers real estate empire. His business endeavors outside that have been a very mixed bag suggesting that his business acumen is just as much a marketing fabrication as his blue collar creds. Just because he eats McDonalds doesn’t mean he has the foggiest clue what the realities of a blue collar family are—he and most of his siblings have always had access to the residuals from their fathers investments. He is a good self-promoter and can play the part and as we’ve seen he’s very good at manipulating the media. Which is nothing but ironic considering how the people who support him by and large decry the media, yet they’ve been played by him as he uses it.


You are right that Trump inherited most or all of his money. If he doesn't have the foggiest clue what the realities of a blue collar family are, (which would make sense), he was still able to market to them. (Most likely, years of TV acting playing a character to middle America).

I just think other candidates did a terribly bad job trying to understand those families. Clinton had prim coastal advisors like Robby Mook who wouldn't know a normal family. He grew up the son of an Ivy League professor and got a BA in Classics at Columbia. This is NOT who should be running a middle America campaign LOL. He and Hillary didn't know jack shit about what they were trying to do.

Biden, for his part, still almost lost the 2020 election. His campaign was also run by incompetent fops. It was only after the Capitol travesty (security failures) on 1/6 that Biden truly got the mandate.
 
luckyone
Posts: 3966
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:10 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

It wasn't really him doing that, he's too dumb. He was coached on his speeches and approach by Chris Ruddy, Steve Bannon, and his son in law. Trump's only real talent is acting - he has been playing the same schtick since The Apprentice. He became his own character in the end.

As for having blue collar tastes, that's pretty debatable. His favorite two pastimes through most of his life have been golf and dinner parties. That's not very blue collar by any measure. His stated reason for liking fast food is because he trusts the QC and safety protocols required for them to stay in business.

Trump may not be “elite,” but he’s hardly a “blue collar self made man.” His business success is irrevocably built on the success of his fathers real estate empire. His business endeavors outside that have been a very mixed bag suggesting that his business acumen is just as much a marketing fabrication as his blue collar creds. Just because he eats McDonalds doesn’t mean he has the foggiest clue what the realities of a blue collar family are—he and most of his siblings have always had access to the residuals from their fathers investments. He is a good self-promoter and can play the part and as we’ve seen he’s very good at manipulating the media. Which is nothing but ironic considering how the people who support him by and large decry the media, yet they’ve been played by him as he uses it.


You are right that Trump inherited most or all of his money. If he doesn't have the foggiest clue what the realities of a blue collar family are, (which would make sense), he was still able to market to them. (Most likely, years of TV acting playing a character to middle America).

I just think other candidates did a terribly bad job trying to understand those families. Clinton had prim coastal advisors like Robby Mook who wouldn't know a normal family. He grew up the son of an Ivy League professor and got a BA in Classics at Columbia. This is NOT who should be running a middle America campaign LOL. He and Hillary didn't know jack shit about what they were trying to do.

Biden, for his part, still almost lost the 2020 election. His campaign was also run by incompetent fops. It was only after the Capitol travesty (security failures) on 1/6 that Biden truly got the mandate.

Which frankly says more about the people that voted for him than anything else. Last time I checked, Trump’s daddy bought him an Ivy League degree, and none of his advisers have had to count pennies.

Meanwhile, almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
 
SL1200MK2
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sun Jun 13, 2021 4:30 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
wingman wrote:
And we cant ever forget that 95% of Republicans believed to their very core that Trump was going to ram it down the “Coastal Elites’” collective throats. And yet he himself was born a coastal elite who lived in gold plated penthouses in NYC and flew his personal jet to coastal private golf clubs while devising yet new rip off schemes to take money from the hordes of blue collar workers toiling away in fly over country. The 2016 election was the greatest suspension of disbelief since Bugs Bunny. 70M Republicans thought the rabbit was real and they still so! So much gray matter just blown out of their ears like so much dust into the wind. This kind of incurable ignorance is a fundamental threat to our way of life. It’s sickening.


The way I see it, Trump was never truly a coastal elite. He has blue collar attitudes and tastes. The guy eats Mcdonald’s. He is a cartoonish fake rich clown. His criticism that coastal elites do not care about the median voter was accurate. It doesn’t matter if Saddam Hussein is the person saying so; it remains valid.

One of Trump’s finest tricks was he would make a correct statement, coastal elites would disagree strongly because he was Donald Trump, then he would win on the merits. I still can’t believe how people fell for that. We are talking about teams of well educated professionals and intellectuals, losing to Don Trump. (Major issues like China relations and the border, and the 2016 election itself). I also think Trump’s tax policy worked well. We were probably on our way to higher wages even without the Covid stimulus.

I had much lower expectations for Donald himself. He is just one guy with a couple advisors, and he’s not smart or particularly well informed. But he accurately spotted weaknesses in the establishment, having been spurned by it for many years. He hurt them badly.


It wasn't really him doing that, he's too dumb. He was coached on his speeches and approach by Chris Ruddy, Steve Bannon, and his son in law. Trump's only real talent is acting - he has been playing the same schtick since The Apprentice. He became his own character in the end.

As for having blue collar tastes, that's pretty debatable. His favorite two pastimes through most of his life have been golf and dinner parties. That's not very blue collar by any measure. His stated reason for liking fast food is because he trusts the QC and safety protocols required for them to stay in business.


Perhaps he’s just a trashy rich person. Similar to those who take a limo to a Carnival cruise and stay the nicest suites.
 
wingman
Posts: 4123
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:20 pm

luckyone wrote:
Last time I checked, Trump’s daddy bought him an Ivy League degree, and none of his advisers have had to count pennies


Daddy also bought him a medical deferment for a foot condition that miraculously disappeared as soon as he arrived at the first tee box. It's a wonder watching all these supposedly American First conservatives cheering on a draft dodging, chicken-shit wind bag.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10815
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:02 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

It wasn't really him doing that, he's too dumb. He was coached on his speeches and approach by Chris Ruddy, Steve Bannon, and his son in law. Trump's only real talent is acting - he has been playing the same schtick since The Apprentice. He became his own character in the end.

As for having blue collar tastes, that's pretty debatable. His favorite two pastimes through most of his life have been golf and dinner parties. That's not very blue collar by any measure. His stated reason for liking fast food is because he trusts the QC and safety protocols required for them to stay in business.

Trump may not be “elite,” but he’s hardly a “blue collar self made man.” His business success is irrevocably built on the success of his fathers real estate empire. His business endeavors outside that have been a very mixed bag suggesting that his business acumen is just as much a marketing fabrication as his blue collar creds. Just because he eats McDonalds doesn’t mean he has the foggiest clue what the realities of a blue collar family are—he and most of his siblings have always had access to the residuals from their fathers investments. He is a good self-promoter and can play the part and as we’ve seen he’s very good at manipulating the media. Which is nothing but ironic considering how the people who support him by and large decry the media, yet they’ve been played by him as he uses it.


You are right that Trump inherited most or all of his money. If he doesn't have the foggiest clue what the realities of a blue collar family are, (which would make sense), he was still able to market to them. (Most likely, years of TV acting playing a character to middle America).

I just think other candidates did a terribly bad job trying to understand those families. Clinton had prim coastal advisors like Robby Mook who wouldn't know a normal family. He grew up the son of an Ivy League professor and got a BA in Classics at Columbia. This is NOT who should be running a middle America campaign LOL. He and Hillary didn't know jack shit about what they were trying to do.

Biden, for his part, still almost lost the 2020 election. His campaign was also run by incompetent fops. It was only after the Capitol travesty (security failures) on 1/6 that Biden truly got the mandate.


Surely he got the mandate in November.
 
bennett123
Posts: 10815
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:06 pm

What I really don't understand is this.

He choses a new Secretary of State, National Security Adviser etc. The candidate is the greatest ever.

A year later he fires them, saying they were useless, a loser etc.

No one asks, how the greatest businessman in this or any other universe keeps picking no hopers.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23734
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:14 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
You are right that Trump inherited most or all of his money. If he doesn't have the foggiest clue what the realities of a blue collar family are, (which would make sense), he was still able to market to them. (Most likely, years of TV acting playing a character to middle America).

I just think other candidates did a terribly bad job trying to understand those families. Clinton had prim coastal advisors like Robby Mook who wouldn't know a normal family. He grew up the son of an Ivy League professor and got a BA in Classics at Columbia. This is NOT who should be running a middle America campaign LOL. He and Hillary didn't know jack shit about what they were trying to do.

Biden, for his part, still almost lost the 2020 election. His campaign was also run by incompetent fops. It was only after the Capitol travesty (security failures) on 1/6 that Biden truly got the mandate.


So we are just going to forget about people like AOC and Bernie and Patty Murray who have actually had to work? Okay....

Also, Biden and Democrats were given a mandate in November. The 1/6 domestic terror event staged by MAGA Republicans to "change" the election was a formality. Biden's Electoral College and popular vote victories both happened in November. The "security failures" were begun by the MAGA leader. Remember it was him who decided not to add security to the White House after being told this would happen.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... e-1113335/
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclus ... 021-04-26/

MAGAs had shirts made and even built a gallows to hang Pence. Not in effigy but actually hang him. Others were looking for Pelosi to execute her. The whole thing pi*ses me off but what is worse is that people in the Republican party actually defend this act of terrorism!
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Max Q
Posts: 8983
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:10 am

wingman wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Last time I checked, Trump’s daddy bought him an Ivy League degree, and none of his advisers have had to count pennies


Daddy also bought him a medical deferment for a foot condition that miraculously disappeared as soon as he arrived at the first tee box. It's a wonder watching all these supposedly American First conservatives cheering on a draft dodging, chicken-shit wind bag.



Well said, chump was asked at one point which foot had the ‘bone ‘spurs’ ?


He didn’t know, I guess it was so traumatic he blocked it out..
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
Max Q
Posts: 8983
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:13 am

seb146 wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
You are right that Trump inherited most or all of his money. If he doesn't have the foggiest clue what the realities of a blue collar family are, (which would make sense), he was still able to market to them. (Most likely, years of TV acting playing a character to middle America).

I just think other candidates did a terribly bad job trying to understand those families. Clinton had prim coastal advisors like Robby Mook who wouldn't know a normal family. He grew up the son of an Ivy League professor and got a BA in Classics at Columbia. This is NOT who should be running a middle America campaign LOL. He and Hillary didn't know jack shit about what they were trying to do.

Biden, for his part, still almost lost the 2020 election. His campaign was also run by incompetent fops. It was only after the Capitol travesty (security failures) on 1/6 that Biden truly got the mandate.


So we are just going to forget about people like AOC and Bernie and Patty Murray who have actually had to work? Okay....

Also, Biden and Democrats were given a mandate in November. The 1/6 domestic terror event staged by MAGA Republicans to "change" the election was a formality. Biden's Electoral College and popular vote victories both happened in November. The "security failures" were begun by the MAGA leader. Remember it was him who decided not to add security to the White House after being told this would happen.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/p ... e-1113335/
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclus ... 021-04-26/

MAGAs had shirts made and even built a gallows to hang Pence. Not in effigy but actually hang him. Others were looking for Pelosi to execute her. The whole thing pi*ses me off but what is worse is that people in the Republican party actually defend this act of terrorism!




Yes,

Defend it and / or pretend it didn’t happen and these are so called ‘patriots’

What they did was attempt to overthrow our government, that makes them traitors


Imagine what these ‘republicans’ would be saying if the democrats had done this
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
User avatar
casinterest
Topic Author
Posts: 13515
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:52 am

LCDFlight wrote:
I fail to see how adults who have worked in large organizations can claim there is “no such thing as a deep state.”

It is in the nature of large organizations to have clouded lines of sight and corroded purpose. A deep state (aka fiefdom, turf, skunk works, kingdom) takes care of members’ needs or wants first, citizens or oversight second. It is childish to think that a US President magically “oversees” all federal employees and can dissect disagreements within the intelligence community. The US government is far too big to manage like that. There are dozens of deep states within it. The largest is the one you see in DC, where thousands of officials socialize and plot together over a good drink or meal, frequently with a lobbyist or two.



This is why we have checks and balances and oversight in the Government. Everyone that has worked in a large private company has seen all of what you discuss. Much of Trump's tenure was spent destroying the checks and balances and purposefully firing people or working around processes, while installing "Loyal" people into positions.

Remember James Comey at all?
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
User avatar
casinterest
Topic Author
Posts: 13515
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump's Administration was the Deep State

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:38 am

https://www.aol.com/news/justice-offici ... 49721.html

The Justice Department’s top national security official is resigning from his position after revelations that the department secretly seized records from Democrats and members of the media.

John Demers will leave his position by the end of next week, a Justice Department official told The Associated Press on Monday.


Oh look, a Trump Appointment is being called to testify and is now resigning over the Apple Subpoenas. I wonder what will possibly happen next for Barr and Sessions.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain

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