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MaverickM11
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California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:36 pm

"By adding 1.3 million people to its non-farm payrolls since April last year -- equal to the entire workforce of Nevada -- California easily surpassed also-rans Texas and New York. At the same time, California household income increased $164 billion, almost as much as Texas, Florida and Pennsylvania combined, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. No wonder California's operating budget surplus, fueled by its surging economy and capital gains taxes, swelled to a record $75 billion."

The Golden State has no peers when it comes to expanding GDP, raising household income, investing in innovation and a host of other key metrics.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... -s-economy
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luckyone
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:53 pm

But...but...DeSantis is a great governor! He keeps our taxes low and is running a great state!
 
SoCalPilot
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:53 pm

I keep seeing this posted everywhere, but for the average person living here this means nothing. Sure, the tech companies and the already wealthy got richer in California and the poor got poorer. That's all this means. The average person living here didn't gain anything during this pandemic. The state is still insanely expensive to live in, the quality of life for an average person is the lowest in the country (according to many studies), and the homelessness is out of control (which will likely be even worse come July 1st once the rent moratorium expires).

But yes, California is a great state to live in if you're rich and can afford it. Its a beautiful state and I enjoy living here, but for the average person its becoming increasingly uninhabitable which is why many are fleeing for other states, including myself.
 
NIKV69
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:09 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
But yes, California is a great state to live in if you're rich and can afford it. Its a beautiful state and I enjoy living here, but for the average person its becoming increasingly uninhabitable which is why many are fleeing for other states, including myself.


It seems the OP wants to support CA. Great but no matter what link to what story is posted it's a state where the huge majority of people can't afford it. It has been plagued by horrible governance for years and doesn't seem to be changing. If that is your idea of a ideal economy well go ahead and enjoy it, I will pass.
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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:30 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
I keep seeing this posted everywhere, but for the average person living here this means nothing. Sure, the tech companies and the already wealthy got richer in California and the poor got poorer. That's all this means. The average person living here didn't gain anything during this pandemic. The state is still insanely expensive to live in, the quality of life for an average person is the lowest in the country (according to many studies), and the homelessness is out of control (which will likely be even worse come July 1st once the rent moratorium expires).

But yes, California is a great state to live in if you're rich and can afford it. Its a beautiful state and I enjoy living here, but for the average person its becoming increasingly uninhabitable which is why many are fleeing for other states, including myself.


Quite a few ‘average’ people still got plenty out of the pandemic - especially if they had stock in anything like Zoom (you mean you didn’t buy when it was at $120???). CA housing *is* expensive, nobody’s denying that. Even so, other states are worse depending on what you’re measuring. Property taxes are higher in IL and the northeast, and utilities are 20-30% higher in the south. Car and homeowner insurance premiums are higher in the south too. Try paying CA-level rent in Hawaii, where salaries are 30% lower at minimum.

What keeps people around above all else are the jobs. Look on any major board at managerial positions in LA or the Bay Area - it’s gangbusters. Thousands of open positions at the moment.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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luckyone
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:37 am

Aaron747 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
I keep seeing this posted everywhere, but for the average person living here this means nothing. Sure, the tech companies and the already wealthy got richer in California and the poor got poorer. That's all this means. The average person living here didn't gain anything during this pandemic. The state is still insanely expensive to live in, the quality of life for an average person is the lowest in the country (according to many studies), and the homelessness is out of control (which will likely be even worse come July 1st once the rent moratorium expires).

But yes, California is a great state to live in if you're rich and can afford it. Its a beautiful state and I enjoy living here, but for the average person its becoming increasingly uninhabitable which is why many are fleeing for other states, including myself.


Quite a few ‘average’ people still got plenty out of the pandemic - especially if they had stock in anything like Zoom (you mean you didn’t buy when it was at $120???). CA housing *is* expensive, nobody’s denying that. Even so, other states are worse depending on what you’re measuring. Property taxes are higher in IL and the northeast, and utilities are 20-30% higher in the south. Car and homeowner insurance premiums are higher in the south too.

What keeps people around above all else are the jobs. Look on any major board at managerial positions in LA or the Bay Area - it’s gangbusters. Thousands of open positions at the moment.

Don’t you get it? Good economic indicators and wealth only count when it’s a conservative in office. Otherwise it’s clear mismanagement and inflation of social ills, and ignoring the fact that rapid growth in other places just recreates the same ills. The market doing what it does is bad when you don’t like it.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:40 am

luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
I keep seeing this posted everywhere, but for the average person living here this means nothing. Sure, the tech companies and the already wealthy got richer in California and the poor got poorer. That's all this means. The average person living here didn't gain anything during this pandemic. The state is still insanely expensive to live in, the quality of life for an average person is the lowest in the country (according to many studies), and the homelessness is out of control (which will likely be even worse come July 1st once the rent moratorium expires).

But yes, California is a great state to live in if you're rich and can afford it. Its a beautiful state and I enjoy living here, but for the average person its becoming increasingly uninhabitable which is why many are fleeing for other states, including myself.


Quite a few ‘average’ people still got plenty out of the pandemic - especially if they had stock in anything like Zoom (you mean you didn’t buy when it was at $120???). CA housing *is* expensive, nobody’s denying that. Even so, other states are worse depending on what you’re measuring. Property taxes are higher in IL and the northeast, and utilities are 20-30% higher in the south. Car and homeowner insurance premiums are higher in the south too.

What keeps people around above all else are the jobs. Look on any major board at managerial positions in LA or the Bay Area - it’s gangbusters. Thousands of open positions at the moment.

Don’t you get it? Good economic indicators and wealth only count when it’s a conservative in office. Otherwise it’s clear mismanagement and inflation of social ills, and ignoring the fact that rapid growth in other places just recreates the same ills. The market doing what it does is bad when you don’t like it.


That’s right - it’s the ‘socialism’ in CA that has created the runaway capitalism everyone sees and feels. :lol:
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luckyone
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:45 am

Aaron747 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Quite a few ‘average’ people still got plenty out of the pandemic - especially if they had stock in anything like Zoom (you mean you didn’t buy when it was at $120???). CA housing *is* expensive, nobody’s denying that. Even so, other states are worse depending on what you’re measuring. Property taxes are higher in IL and the northeast, and utilities are 20-30% higher in the south. Car and homeowner insurance premiums are higher in the south too.

What keeps people around above all else are the jobs. Look on any major board at managerial positions in LA or the Bay Area - it’s gangbusters. Thousands of open positions at the moment.

Don’t you get it? Good economic indicators and wealth only count when it’s a conservative in office. Otherwise it’s clear mismanagement and inflation of social ills, and ignoring the fact that rapid growth in other places just recreates the same ills. The market doing what it does is bad when you don’t like it.


That’s right - it’s the ‘socialism’ in CA that has created the runaway capitalism everyone sees and feels. :lol:

And lost in that self-congratulatory analysis is the fact that the State of California alone has an economy bigger than all but a handful of countries in the world. Can’t imagine why high economic output (granted combined with a geographically compromised area) results in high cost. Having said that, I don’t live there, and have no intention of doing so.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:49 am

luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Don’t you get it? Good economic indicators and wealth only count when it’s a conservative in office. Otherwise it’s clear mismanagement and inflation of social ills, and ignoring the fact that rapid growth in other places just recreates the same ills. The market doing what it does is bad when you don’t like it.


That’s right - it’s the ‘socialism’ in CA that has created the runaway capitalism everyone sees and feels. :lol:

And lost in that self-congratulatory analysis is the fact that the State of California alone has an economy bigger than all but a handful of countries in the world. Can’t imagine why high economic output (granted combined with a geographically compromised area) results in high cost. Having said that, I don’t live there, and have no intention of doing so.


Yes, that too. The three largest metropolitan areas are quite mountainous so there are already substantial market limitations.
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luckyone
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:51 am

Aaron747 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

That’s right - it’s the ‘socialism’ in CA that has created the runaway capitalism everyone sees and feels. :lol:

And lost in that self-congratulatory analysis is the fact that the State of California alone has an economy bigger than all but a handful of countries in the world. Can’t imagine why high economic output (granted combined with a geographically compromised area) results in high cost. Having said that, I don’t live there, and have no intention of doing so.


Yes, that too. The three largest metropolitan areas are quite mountainous so there are already substantial market limitations.

Kinda like Boston...Seattle (water and mountains pretty much everywhere you look)...Miami...I’m sensing a trend here. Water on one side, built out development in the other. Gee, those darn libruls and their mismanagement for building on all the available land.
 
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casinterest
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:41 am

Oh look, the Trump cheerleaders can't stand it when the number 1 economy in the US is in a "liberal state" Guess the fact that California has more conservatives than any other state doesn't matter to them as much as "Owning the libs" . Such fair weather folks those conservatives are.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
SoCalPilot
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:48 am

Aaron747 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Quite a few ‘average’ people still got plenty out of the pandemic - especially if they had stock in anything like Zoom (you mean you didn’t buy when it was at $120???). CA housing *is* expensive, nobody’s denying that. Even so, other states are worse depending on what you’re measuring. Property taxes are higher in IL and the northeast, and utilities are 20-30% higher in the south. Car and homeowner insurance premiums are higher in the south too.

What keeps people around above all else are the jobs. Look on any major board at managerial positions in LA or the Bay Area - it’s gangbusters. Thousands of open positions at the moment.

Don’t you get it? Good economic indicators and wealth only count when it’s a conservative in office. Otherwise it’s clear mismanagement and inflation of social ills, and ignoring the fact that rapid growth in other places just recreates the same ills. The market doing what it does is bad when you don’t like it.


That’s right - it’s the ‘socialism’ in CA that has created the runaway capitalism everyone sees and feels. :lol:

Ok I'm confused, so you both agree with conservatives that capitalism like we see in California is good?
 
SoCalPilot
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:52 am

casinterest wrote:
Oh look, the Trump cheerleaders can't stand it when the number 1 economy in the US is in a "liberal state" Guess the fact that California has more conservatives than any other state doesn't matter to them as much as "Owning the libs" . Such fair weather folks those conservatives are.

Caring about California's lack of dealing with its homeless problem and quality of life issues while touting being the best economy in the country is me being a "Trump cheerleader"? Really? If so, did Republicans suddenly become the compassionate party then?

Or is it the fact that if you criticize one side then you must automatically be for the other? Do you not agree that the homeless problem in California and high cost of living for a lot (mostly minorities) is problematic?
Last edited by SoCalPilot on Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:54 am

casinterest wrote:
Oh look, the Trump cheerleaders can't stand it when the number 1 economy in the US is in a "liberal state" Guess the fact that California has more conservatives than any other state doesn't matter to them as much as "Owning the libs" . Such fair weather folks those conservatives are.


70% of the US economic output is from sates that voted Biden despite the population being roughly 50/50.

In fact the economic increases during the Trump era were mostly in Democrat areas, and they are increasing under Biden.

Looks like those “high taxes and socialism” produce results (like every other country on earth).

Today’s GOP is about nothing more than hypocrisy on every level.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:58 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Don’t you get it? Good economic indicators and wealth only count when it’s a conservative in office. Otherwise it’s clear mismanagement and inflation of social ills, and ignoring the fact that rapid growth in other places just recreates the same ills. The market doing what it does is bad when you don’t like it.


That’s right - it’s the ‘socialism’ in CA that has created the runaway capitalism everyone sees and feels. :lol:

Ok I'm confused, so you both agree with conservatives that capitalism like we see in California is good?


I’m the one who has been confused...for years. The right wing media machine puts out endless content about socialist California, but they never acknowledge it’s actually the test case intersection of runaway capitalism and social ills. Nothing socialist about that, or the social ills would be controlled like Germany’s or any other comparable economy.
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SoCalPilot
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:59 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Oh look, the Trump cheerleaders can't stand it when the number 1 economy in the US is in a "liberal state" Guess the fact that California has more conservatives than any other state doesn't matter to them as much as "Owning the libs" . Such fair weather folks those conservatives are.


70% of the US economic output is from sates that voted Biden despite the population being roughly 50/50.

In fact the economic increases during the Trump era were mostly in Democrat areas, and they are increasing under Biden.

Looks like those “high taxes and socialism” produce results (like every other country on earth).

Today’s GOP is about nothing more than hypocrisy on every level.
Id say both parties are hypocrites. If California is so great and wealthy then why has the homeless issue only gotten worse?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:05 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Oh look, the Trump cheerleaders can't stand it when the number 1 economy in the US is in a "liberal state" Guess the fact that California has more conservatives than any other state doesn't matter to them as much as "Owning the libs" . Such fair weather folks those conservatives are.

Caring about California's lack of dealing with its homeless problem and quality of life issues while touting being the best economy in the country is me being a "Trump cheerleader"? Really? If so, did Republicans suddenly become the compassionate party then?

Or is it the fact that if you criticize one side then you must automatically be for the other? Do you not agree that the homeless problem in California and high cost of living for a lot (mostly minorities) is problematic?


The high cost of living is a homegrown problem - voters have rejected renewal of rent controls and NIMBYism is rampant throughout the state. Developers have wanted to build more apartments in many key areas for decades and have been shoved aside in favor of single family housing and local ‘slow growth’ policies.

Homelessness is a complex issue and cannot be reduced to simple finger pointing like ‘the state has mismanaged the issue’. Other states have sent homeless to CA (Hawaii has the same problem) for years and the federal government left a lot of Vietnam and Iraq vets out to dry. Many CA cities have tried to expand shelter options but NIMBYs often block shelter provision in their areas, which is how you get situations like LA’s Skid Row and the camper parks in Palo Alto. Local governments are completely hamstrung by competing interests - you expect them to wave a magic wand? Residents have to be willing to walk the talk if they expect ‘something to be done’ about the homeless.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SoCalPilot
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:07 am

Aaron747 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

That’s right - it’s the ‘socialism’ in CA that has created the runaway capitalism everyone sees and feels. :lol:

Ok I'm confused, so you both agree with conservatives that capitalism like we see in California is good?


I’m the one who has been confused...for years. The right wing media machine puts out endless content about socialist California, but they never acknowledge it’s actually the test case intersection of runaway capitalism and social ills. Nothing socialist about that, or the social ills would be controlled like Germany’s or any other comparable economy.

I mean couldn't you say the same thing about the left wing media talking about how capitalism is bad? There's a middle ground to be had between Capitalism and social policies that help everyone, but we won't ever get there if we treat it like a sporting event where both sides pull for their team based on if there's an R or D next to their name instead of actual policies.

Case in point, can you imagine if Trump told Guatemalan not to come to the US? Liberals and MSNBC would be going nuts and Republicans and Fox News would be praising her, but since there's a D next to her name...
 
SoCalPilot
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:09 am

Aaron747 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Oh look, the Trump cheerleaders can't stand it when the number 1 economy in the US is in a "liberal state" Guess the fact that California has more conservatives than any other state doesn't matter to them as much as "Owning the libs" . Such fair weather folks those conservatives are.

Caring about California's lack of dealing with its homeless problem and quality of life issues while touting being the best economy in the country is me being a "Trump cheerleader"? Really? If so, did Republicans suddenly become the compassionate party then?

Or is it the fact that if you criticize one side then you must automatically be for the other? Do you not agree that the homeless problem in California and high cost of living for a lot (mostly minorities) is problematic?


The high cost of living is a homegrown problem - voters have rejected renewal of rent controls and NIMBYism is rampant throughout the state. Developers have wanted to build more apartments in many key areas for decades and have been shoved aside in favor of single family housing and local ‘slow growth’ policies.

Homelessness is a complex issue and cannot be reduced to simple finger pointing like ‘the state has mismanaged the issue’. Other states have sent homeless to CA (Hawaii has the same problem) for years and the federal government left a lot of Vietnam and Iraq vets out to dry. Many CA cities have tried to expand shelter options but NIMBYs often block shelter provision in their areas, which is how you get situations like LA’s Skid Row and the camper parks in Palo Alto. Local governments are completely hamstrung by competing interests - you expect them to wave a magic wand? Residents have to be willing to walk the talk if they expect ‘something to be done’ about the homeless.

So basically California Democrats are hypocrites?

"I'm all for solving the homeless problem!"

"Oh wait, it means a shelter being built in my neighborhood, nevermind!"
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:12 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
Caring about California's lack of dealing with its homeless problem and quality of life issues while touting being the best economy in the country is me being a "Trump cheerleader"? Really? If so, did Republicans suddenly become the compassionate party then?

Or is it the fact that if you criticize one side then you must automatically be for the other? Do you not agree that the homeless problem in California and high cost of living for a lot (mostly minorities) is problematic?


The high cost of living is a homegrown problem - voters have rejected renewal of rent controls and NIMBYism is rampant throughout the state. Developers have wanted to build more apartments in many key areas for decades and have been shoved aside in favor of single family housing and local ‘slow growth’ policies.

Homelessness is a complex issue and cannot be reduced to simple finger pointing like ‘the state has mismanaged the issue’. Other states have sent homeless to CA (Hawaii has the same problem) for years and the federal government left a lot of Vietnam and Iraq vets out to dry. Many CA cities have tried to expand shelter options but NIMBYs often block shelter provision in their areas, which is how you get situations like LA’s Skid Row and the camper parks in Palo Alto. Local governments are completely hamstrung by competing interests - you expect them to wave a magic wand? Residents have to be willing to walk the talk if they expect ‘something to be done’ about the homeless.

So basically California Democrats are hypocrites?

"I'm all for solving the homeless problem!"

"Oh wait, it means a shelter being built in my neighborhood, nevermind!"


Californians of all stripes, definitely not limited to Democrats. But NIMBYism and the homeless is a problem nationwide...why limit the discussion to California? We and Hawaii have the worst of it because of weather, not anything else in particular. How many would survive living outside in an Ohio Valley winter? For being a wealthy ‘Judeo-Christian’ country, there is a lot of ‘gee, that’s too bad’ in regard to people slipping through the cracks. In general, that makes things worse, not better.

My question stands: what do you expect the state and local government to do about it?
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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:21 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
Ok I'm confused, so you both agree with conservatives that capitalism like we see in California is good?


I’m the one who has been confused...for years. The right wing media machine puts out endless content about socialist California, but they never acknowledge it’s actually the test case intersection of runaway capitalism and social ills. Nothing socialist about that, or the social ills would be controlled like Germany’s or any other comparable economy.

I mean couldn't you say the same thing about the left wing media talking about how capitalism is bad? There's a middle ground to be had between Capitalism and social policies that help everyone, but we won't ever get there if we treat it like a sporting event where both sides pull for their team based on if there's an R or D next to their name instead of actual policies.

Case in point, can you imagine if Trump told Guatemalan not to come to the US? Liberals and MSNBC would be going nuts and Republicans and Fox News would be praising her, but since there's a D next to her name...


Incidentally, except for ‘Democracy Now!’, there is hardly any anti-capitalist sentiment in left wing media. There is criticism of the lack of social safety net, but that’s a different thing. As you say, there is a middle ground where capitalist success on America’s scale should be able to ensure people are looked after if they slip through. And reporting on abuses by pharma and utility companies wouldn’t be necessary if they simply followed the law, right?
Last edited by Aaron747 on Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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lightsaber
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:21 am

What about the debt, including the pensions? There will be interesting times ahead.

California unemployment 8.3%
Florida 4.8%

Everyone I know with high skills is employed in California. But the high school education is suffering. This is a K recovery state and we exclude pension debt, so at some point the piper will be paid.

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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:24 am

lightsaber wrote:
What about the debt, including the pensions? There will be interesting times ahead.

California unemployment 8.3%
Florida 4.8%

Everyone I know with high skills is employed in California. But the high school education is suffering. This is a K recovery state and we exclude pension debt, so at some point the piper will be paid.

Lightsaber


That is certainly a major issue. If CalPERS invested in Zoom like some of us did, they are doing a good job of moving the piper’s payday far down the line.
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LCDFlight
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:34 am

Good for California. I think there should be a lot of DOJ personnel breaking up Big Tech monopolies, but even if that were to happen, California would still do fine. They do have a greedy and bloated government, but, they can afford a lot of stupid things with that much money.
 
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casinterest
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:02 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Oh look, the Trump cheerleaders can't stand it when the number 1 economy in the US is in a "liberal state" Guess the fact that California has more conservatives than any other state doesn't matter to them as much as "Owning the libs" . Such fair weather folks those conservatives are.

Caring about California's lack of dealing with its homeless problem and quality of life issues while touting being the best economy in the country is me being a "Trump cheerleader"? Really? If so, did Republicans suddenly become the compassionate party then?

Or is it the fact that if you criticize one side then you must automatically be for the other? Do you not agree that the homeless problem in California and high cost of living for a lot (mostly minorities) is problematic?



Do you know how I know you watch to much fake right wing news? You worry about a homeless issue that exists in all states, however you walk the right wing whine
sierrakilo44 wrote:
70% of the US economic output is from sates that voted Biden despite the population being roughly 50/50.

In fact the economic increases during the Trump era were mostly in Democrat areas, and they are increasing under Biden.

Looks like those “high taxes and socialism” produce results (like every other country on earth).

Today’s GOP is about nothing more than hypocrisy on every level.
line about how it is a liberal issue.

Today's GOP can't ever figure out that open fields and empty spaces don't produce much for the GDP.

We all need farms, mines, logging, fisheries, and livestock production, but not everyone can do it all the time, and many other jobs exist that help those businesses flourish, but exist within larger population centers.


Sure it produces high taxes, but it produces jobs, high wages, and better education and family cohesiveness.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
Pi7472000
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:32 am

Yeah love California!!! So amazing to see this blue, progressive state come out on top again!!!!
 
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seb146
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 4:25 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Oh look, the Trump cheerleaders can't stand it when the number 1 economy in the US is in a "liberal state" Guess the fact that California has more conservatives than any other state doesn't matter to them as much as "Owning the libs" . Such fair weather folks those conservatives are.


70% of the US economic output is from sates that voted Biden despite the population being roughly 50/50.

In fact the economic increases during the Trump era were mostly in Democrat areas, and they are increasing under Biden.

Looks like those “high taxes and socialism” produce results (like every other country on earth).

Today’s GOP is about nothing more than hypocrisy on every level.
Id say both parties are hypocrites. If California is so great and wealthy then why has the homeless issue only gotten worse?


Are there no homeless in Florida or Alabama or Kansas? You need to look outside the metro areas and not just say "all California is bad because one neighborhood in LA". Many policies aimed at cities has actually benefited smaller communities across California.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
SoCalPilot
Posts: 139
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:03 am

casinterest wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Oh look, the Trump cheerleaders can't stand it when the number 1 economy in the US is in a "liberal state" Guess the fact that California has more conservatives than any other state doesn't matter to them as much as "Owning the libs" . Such fair weather folks those conservatives are.

Caring about California's lack of dealing with its homeless problem and quality of life issues while touting being the best economy in the country is me being a "Trump cheerleader"? Really? If so, did Republicans suddenly become the compassionate party then?

Or is it the fact that if you criticize one side then you must automatically be for the other? Do you not agree that the homeless problem in California and high cost of living for a lot (mostly minorities) is problematic?



Do you know how I know you watch to much fake right wing news? You worry about a homeless issue that exists in all states, however you walk the right wing whine
sierrakilo44 wrote:
70% of the US economic output is from sates that voted Biden despite the population being roughly 50/50.

In fact the economic increases during the Trump era were mostly in Democrat areas, and they are increasing under Biden.

Looks like those “high taxes and socialism” produce results (like every other country on earth).

Today’s GOP is about nothing more than hypocrisy on every level.
line about how it is a liberal issue.

Today's GOP can't ever figure out that open fields and empty spaces don't produce much for the GDP.

We all need farms, mines, logging, fisheries, and livestock production, but not everyone can do it all the time, and many other jobs exist that help those businesses flourish, but exist within larger population centers.


Sure it produces high taxes, but it produces jobs, high wages, and better education and family cohesiveness.
I watch too much Fox News? You're the epitome of how politics has ruined our country.

You want to know the truth? I never thought I'd find myself in these shoes, but the pandemic ruined my wife and mines company. Come July 1st, unless i can come up with $7500, we'll most likely be evicted. This isn't a right vs left issue, stop making it that. Both parties have failed us.

We've applied for the rent relief, but guess what...like 75% of Californians who applied for it, we haven't heard a word back! I owe $1800 in utilities, I can't pay it. They'll be shut off within a week since the orders are being lifted. So stop it with this left vs right BS! You're the reason we can't get anything done in this country.

Once we're evicted we're moving back to her home country, where we can actually live. America is no longer the land of prosperity.
 
SoCalPilot
Posts: 139
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:21 am

seb146 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:

70% of the US economic output is from sates that voted Biden despite the population being roughly 50/50.

In fact the economic increases during the Trump era were mostly in Democrat areas, and they are increasing under Biden.

Looks like those “high taxes and socialism” produce results (like every other country on earth).

Today’s GOP is about nothing more than hypocrisy on every level.
Id say both parties are hypocrites. If California is so great and wealthy then why has the homeless issue only gotten worse?


Are there no homeless in Florida or Alabama or Kansas? You need to look outside the metro areas and not just say "all California is bad because one neighborhood in LA". Many policies aimed at cities has actually benefited smaller communities across California.

Of course there are homeless, but my wife and I wouldn't be about to be homeless for the same amount per month that we're paying in California. There's a huge difference between $2000 per month for a 1 bdr vs $800 a month in the states you listed.

And as I've stated before, have you actually gone through the process of getting "socialized" help in California? It takes forever to get approved, and that's after you pass their insane application process.

I've lived in a lot of states, and I've been rich by no means, and I'd much rather be in a state with lower cost of living such as Alabama or South Carolina than a state that supposedly has my back like California
Last edited by SoCalPilot on Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:22 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
casinterest wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
Caring about California's lack of dealing with its homeless problem and quality of life issues while touting being the best economy in the country is me being a "Trump cheerleader"? Really? If so, did Republicans suddenly become the compassionate party then?

Or is it the fact that if you criticize one side then you must automatically be for the other? Do you not agree that the homeless problem in California and high cost of living for a lot (mostly minorities) is problematic?



Do you know how I know you watch to much fake right wing news? You worry about a homeless issue that exists in all states, however you walk the right wing whine
sierrakilo44 wrote:
70% of the US economic output is from sates that voted Biden despite the population being roughly 50/50.

In fact the economic increases during the Trump era were mostly in Democrat areas, and they are increasing under Biden.

Looks like those “high taxes and socialism” produce results (like every other country on earth).

Today’s GOP is about nothing more than hypocrisy on every level.
line about how it is a liberal issue.

Today's GOP can't ever figure out that open fields and empty spaces don't produce much for the GDP.

We all need farms, mines, logging, fisheries, and livestock production, but not everyone can do it all the time, and many other jobs exist that help those businesses flourish, but exist within larger population centers.


Sure it produces high taxes, but it produces jobs, high wages, and better education and family cohesiveness.
I watch too much Fox News? You're the epitome of how politics has ruined our country.

You want to know the truth? I never thought I'd find myself in these shoes, but the pandemic ruined my wife and mines company. Come July 1st, unless i can come up with $7500, we'll most likely be evicted. This isn't a right vs left issue, stop making it that. Both parties have failed us.

We've applied for the rent relief, but guess what...like 75% of Californians who applied for it, we haven't heard a word back! I owe $1800 in utilities, I can't pay it. They'll be shut off within a week since the orders are being lifted. So stop it with this left vs right BS! You're the reason we can't get anything done in this country.

Once we're evicted we're moving back to her home country, where we can actually live. America is no longer the land of prosperity.


What happened to moving to the Sunshine state?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:24 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
seb146 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
Id say both parties are hypocrites. If California is so great and wealthy then why has the homeless issue only gotten worse?


Are there no homeless in Florida or Alabama or Kansas? You need to look outside the metro areas and not just say "all California is bad because one neighborhood in LA". Many policies aimed at cities has actually benefited smaller communities across California.

Of course there are homeless, but my wife and I wouldn't be about to be homeless for the same amount per month that we're paying in California. There's a huge difference between $2000 per month for a 1 bdr vs $800 a month in the states you listed.


Okay, but you still haven't answered my earlier question: what do you expect state and local governments to do about homelessness given its complexity?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
SoCalPilot
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:29 am

Aaron747 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
casinterest wrote:


Do you know how I know you watch to much fake right wing news? You worry about a homeless issue that exists in all states, however you walk the right wing whine line about how it is a liberal issue.

Today's GOP can't ever figure out that open fields and empty spaces don't produce much for the GDP.

We all need farms, mines, logging, fisheries, and livestock production, but not everyone can do it all the time, and many other jobs exist that help those businesses flourish, but exist within larger population centers.


Sure it produces high taxes, but it produces jobs, high wages, and better education and family cohesiveness.
I watch too much Fox News? You're the epitome of how politics has ruined our country.

You want to know the truth? I never thought I'd find myself in these shoes, but the pandemic ruined my wife and mines company. Come July 1st, unless i can come up with $7500, we'll most likely be evicted. This isn't a right vs left issue, stop making it that. Both parties have failed us.

We've applied for the rent relief, but guess what...like 75% of Californians who applied for it, we haven't heard a word back! I owe $1800 in utilities, I can't pay it. They'll be shut off within a week since the orders are being lifted. So stop it with this left vs right BS! You're the reason we can't get anything done in this country.

Once we're evicted we're moving back to her home country, where we can actually live. America is no longer the land of prosperity.


What happened to moving to the Sunshine state?

You're just proving my point that the left only cares about poll numbers and not the actual person. Why else would you ask such an asinine question after seeing what I wrote?

Let's be honest..you and the left don't care about the homeless, you care about votes. If you did, you'd offer me advice, not try and debate me.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:45 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
I watch too much Fox News? You're the epitome of how politics has ruined our country.

You want to know the truth? I never thought I'd find myself in these shoes, but the pandemic ruined my wife and mines company. Come July 1st, unless i can come up with $7500, we'll most likely be evicted. This isn't a right vs left issue, stop making it that. Both parties have failed us.

We've applied for the rent relief, but guess what...like 75% of Californians who applied for it, we haven't heard a word back! I owe $1800 in utilities, I can't pay it. They'll be shut off within a week since the orders are being lifted. So stop it with this left vs right BS! You're the reason we can't get anything done in this country.

Once we're evicted we're moving back to her home country, where we can actually live. America is no longer the land of prosperity.


What happened to moving to the Sunshine state?

You're just proving my point that the left only cares about poll numbers and not the actual person. Why else would you ask such an asinine question after seeing what I wrote?

Let's be honest..you and the left don't care about the homeless, you care about votes. If you did, you'd offer me advice, not try and debate me.


Don't know anything about the situation so kinda hard to give advice - what kind of business? Is it just you and the wife or do you have employees? Any online sales channel potential? Which relief program did you apply to and when? And the whole thing is confusing because in another thread you indicated the plan was to move to FL.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aesma
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:03 am

Since one big issue that is causing other issues is the housing problem, and I know GAFAS have promised to build some, why doesn't the state invest in housing ?

Not talking about changing laws (or marginally) because of course plenty of special interests don't want the situation to change, but just build flats on government grounds, play the same game as real estate developers except providing affordable rents.

Yeah it's "socialist" but who cares ?

BTW my only US trip was to California, I drove across it including to the inland parts, and I doubt everywhere I was was unaffordable...
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
luckyone
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:37 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
seb146 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
Id say both parties are hypocrites. If California is so great and wealthy then why has the homeless issue only gotten worse?


Are there no homeless in Florida or Alabama or Kansas? You need to look outside the metro areas and not just say "all California is bad because one neighborhood in LA". Many policies aimed at cities has actually benefited smaller communities across California.

Of course there are homeless, but my wife and I wouldn't be about to be homeless for the same amount per month that we're paying in California. There's a huge difference between $2000 per month for a 1 bdr vs $800 a month in the states you listed.

And as I've stated before, have you actually gone through the process of getting "socialized" help in California? It takes forever to get approved, and that's after you pass their insane application process.

I've lived in a lot of states, and I've been rich by no means, and I'd much rather be in a state with lower cost of living such as Alabama or South Carolina than a state that supposedly has my back like California

While truly sorry that you are experiencing difficult economic circumstances, can you point to evidence showing that you'd have been less likely to lose your business living outside of California? (FYI California and Florida both had similar drops in GDP in 2020, with business friendly Texas having a greater drop than both) Business closures are not unique to California, and the business climate obviously wasn't so bad that you weren't deterred from moving there in the first place...Also, can you please show us how a state other than California would have been quicker to provide the rent relief that many don't even offer in the first place? Here's another thing that is often overlooked, cost of living is lower in places where wages are lower, so you may be spending only $800 on a 1bedroom apartment but your overall income is also lower, so unless you're better at saving less money, you'd possibly be in the same boat.

Meanwhile I'm going to second another poster...what happened to the plans to move to Florida?
 
luckyone
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:39 am

Aesma wrote:
Since one big issue that is causing other issues is the housing problem, and I know GAFAS have promised to build some, why doesn't the state invest in housing ?

Because nobody wants a subsidized housing unit next to theirs. No matter what their political leaning.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:57 am

Aesma wrote:
Since one big issue that is causing other issues is the housing problem, and I know GAFAS have promised to build some, why doesn't the state invest in housing ?

Not talking about changing laws (or marginally) because of course plenty of special interests don't want the situation to change, but just build flats on government grounds, play the same game as real estate developers except providing affordable rents.

Yeah it's "socialist" but who cares ?

BTW my only US trip was to California, I drove across it including to the inland parts, and I doubt everywhere I was was unaffordable...


Another critical reason is that many government lands are not zoned for residential use, and changing that may require legislative action. Also government entities would incur a lot of liability risk - this is why public housing 'corporations' are used in places where local governments run large numbers of subsidized units.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
luckyone
Posts: 3971
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:07 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Since one big issue that is causing other issues is the housing problem, and I know GAFAS have promised to build some, why doesn't the state invest in housing ?

Not talking about changing laws (or marginally) because of course plenty of special interests don't want the situation to change, but just build flats on government grounds, play the same game as real estate developers except providing affordable rents.

Yeah it's "socialist" but who cares ?

BTW my only US trip was to California, I drove across it including to the inland parts, and I doubt everywhere I was was unaffordable...


Another critical reason is that many government lands are not zoned for residential use, and changing that may require legislative action. Also government entities would incur a lot of liability risk - this is why public housing 'corporations' are used in places where local governments run large numbers of subsidized units.

Further, a bipartisan piece of legislation in the 1970s limits the amount that property in California can be taxed. Accordingly, this impacts how willing municipalities are to approve new construction vs commercial use, which can be taxed differently.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:11 pm

luckyone wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Since one big issue that is causing other issues is the housing problem, and I know GAFAS have promised to build some, why doesn't the state invest in housing ?

Not talking about changing laws (or marginally) because of course plenty of special interests don't want the situation to change, but just build flats on government grounds, play the same game as real estate developers except providing affordable rents.

Yeah it's "socialist" but who cares ?

BTW my only US trip was to California, I drove across it including to the inland parts, and I doubt everywhere I was was unaffordable...


Another critical reason is that many government lands are not zoned for residential use, and changing that may require legislative action. Also government entities would incur a lot of liability risk - this is why public housing 'corporations' are used in places where local governments run large numbers of subsidized units.

Further, a bipartisan piece of legislation in the 1970s limits the amount that property in California can be taxed. Accordingly, this impacts how willing municipalities are to approve new construction vs commercial use, which can be taxed differently.


Correct. There is also a 1914 amendment to the California Constitution (with clarification provisions made in the 1960s) that govern how government agencies pay property tax on lands owned outside their jurisdictions. In this vein there are probably many local governments that pay property tax to others.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aesma
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:32 pm

Well there is an election going on, surely a candidate could propose something ?

And no, "taking care of homelessness" isn't it. Nor would typical GOP solutions aka unique solution to everything, cutting taxes, help.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:53 pm

Aesma wrote:
Well there is an election going on, surely a candidate could propose something ?

And no, "taking care of homelessness" isn't it. Nor would typical GOP solutions aka unique solution to everything, cutting taxes, help.


Ballot propositions to enhance rent control have failed in the last two elections.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:00 pm

SoCalPilot wrote:
casinterest wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
Caring about California's lack of dealing with its homeless problem and quality of life issues while touting being the best economy in the country is me being a "Trump cheerleader"? Really? If so, did Republicans suddenly become the compassionate party then?

Or is it the fact that if you criticize one side then you must automatically be for the other? Do you not agree that the homeless problem in California and high cost of living for a lot (mostly minorities) is problematic?



Do you know how I know you watch to much fake right wing news? You worry about a homeless issue that exists in all states, however you walk the right wing whine
sierrakilo44 wrote:
70% of the US economic output is from sates that voted Biden despite the population being roughly 50/50.

In fact the economic increases during the Trump era were mostly in Democrat areas, and they are increasing under Biden.

Looks like those “high taxes and socialism” produce results (like every other country on earth).

Today’s GOP is about nothing more than hypocrisy on every level.
line about how it is a liberal issue.

Today's GOP can't ever figure out that open fields and empty spaces don't produce much for the GDP.

We all need farms, mines, logging, fisheries, and livestock production, but not everyone can do it all the time, and many other jobs exist that help those businesses flourish, but exist within larger population centers.


Sure it produces high taxes, but it produces jobs, high wages, and better education and family cohesiveness.
I watch too much Fox News? You're the epitome of how politics has ruined our country.

You want to know the truth? I never thought I'd find myself in these shoes, but the pandemic ruined my wife and mines company. Come July 1st, unless i can come up with $7500, we'll most likely be evicted. This isn't a right vs left issue, stop making it that. Both parties have failed us.

We've applied for the rent relief, but guess what...like 75% of Californians who applied for it, we haven't heard a word back! I owe $1800 in utilities, I can't pay it. They'll be shut off within a week since the orders are being lifted. So stop it with this left vs right BS! You're the reason we can't get anything done in this country.

Once we're evicted we're moving back to her home country, where we can actually live. America is no longer the land of prosperity.


So you drop your claim about homelessness being a liberal state issue? Because that is what all the uneducated and cult addicted people from the right wing echo chambers keep claiming.

Your plight has nothing to do with many of the reasons people are persistently homeless. Your business has fallen on rough times, and for reasons I can't understand, the stimulus for businesses and for individuals have not helped out your situation. Perhaps you did not fill out the right forms? you should go in to the state and county where your business is registered to apply for all the below for starters.

https://covid19.ca.gov/business-and-employers/


As for the rest, I doubt you will wind up homeless as the economy is opening up now, and your job or other jobs will be in demand where you can recover.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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seb146
Posts: 23741
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:55 pm

SoCalPilot wrote:
seb146 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
Id say both parties are hypocrites. If California is so great and wealthy then why has the homeless issue only gotten worse?


Are there no homeless in Florida or Alabama or Kansas? You need to look outside the metro areas and not just say "all California is bad because one neighborhood in LA". Many policies aimed at cities has actually benefited smaller communities across California.

Of course there are homeless, but my wife and I wouldn't be about to be homeless for the same amount per month that we're paying in California. There's a huge difference between $2000 per month for a 1 bdr vs $800 a month in the states you listed.


And people struggle to afford $800 in the states listed and, as a result, end up homeless. Let me ask this way: Why is homelessness in LA worse than homelessness in Montgomery, Alabama? If you can't afford to live, why hold up one as a "liberal" failure but ignore the other?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:00 pm

seb146 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Are there no homeless in Florida or Alabama or Kansas? You need to look outside the metro areas and not just say "all California is bad because one neighborhood in LA". Many policies aimed at cities has actually benefited smaller communities across California.

Of course there are homeless, but my wife and I wouldn't be about to be homeless for the same amount per month that we're paying in California. There's a huge difference between $2000 per month for a 1 bdr vs $800 a month in the states you listed.


And people struggle to afford $800 in the states listed and, as a result, end up homeless. Let me ask this way: Why is homelessness in LA worse than homelessness in Montgomery, Alabama? If you can't afford to live, why hold up one as a "liberal" failure but ignore the other?


Technically, being homeless in Montgomery is *far worse* than in LA. Montgomery has 106 rainy days per year on average, and LA has just 34. The average low in Dec/January in Montgomery is 36-38 degrees, and in LA it's 48-49.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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casinterest
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:10 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
Of course there are homeless, but my wife and I wouldn't be about to be homeless for the same amount per month that we're paying in California. There's a huge difference between $2000 per month for a 1 bdr vs $800 a month in the states you listed.


And people struggle to afford $800 in the states listed and, as a result, end up homeless. Let me ask this way: Why is homelessness in LA worse than homelessness in Montgomery, Alabama? If you can't afford to live, why hold up one as a "liberal" failure but ignore the other?


Technically, being homeless in Montgomery is *far worse* than in LA. Montgomery has 106 rainy days per year on average, and LA has just 34. The average low in Dec/January in Montgomery is 36-38 degrees, and in LA it's 48-49.



This is the big thing I think no one has ever figured out. Being homeless in LA/Arizona/Las Vegas is so much better than being homeless in cities where rain,snow,extreme cold make life more difficult.
the other issue is that Tent Cities are much more visable in those cities. Here in the triangle, we have lots of homeless, but they all are in tent cities deep in the woods where you usually don't see them front and center, unless it is median collection time.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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seb146
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:11 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
Of course there are homeless, but my wife and I wouldn't be about to be homeless for the same amount per month that we're paying in California. There's a huge difference between $2000 per month for a 1 bdr vs $800 a month in the states you listed.


And people struggle to afford $800 in the states listed and, as a result, end up homeless. Let me ask this way: Why is homelessness in LA worse than homelessness in Montgomery, Alabama? If you can't afford to live, why hold up one as a "liberal" failure but ignore the other?


Technically, being homeless in Montgomery is *far worse* than in LA. Montgomery has 106 rainy days per year on average, and LA has just 34. The average low in Dec/January in Montgomery is 36-38 degrees, and in LA it's 48-49.


If weather were the only factor, yes, it is easier to be homeless in Southern California.

There have been homeless for I don't know how long. Only recently in history have I noticed people complaining about them. We have a homeless group here on the south Oregon coast. It is also heavily MAGA evangelicals living and working here. The solution, from what I understand, is "they need to go back to California or Portland". So, push the problem on to someone else. Here is the kicker: these MAGAs then complain about how scary and horrible places like California and Portland are because they are not doing anything about the homeless!
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
luckyone
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:30 pm

seb146 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

And people struggle to afford $800 in the states listed and, as a result, end up homeless. Let me ask this way: Why is homelessness in LA worse than homelessness in Montgomery, Alabama? If you can't afford to live, why hold up one as a "liberal" failure but ignore the other?


Technically, being homeless in Montgomery is *far worse* than in LA. Montgomery has 106 rainy days per year on average, and LA has just 34. The average low in Dec/January in Montgomery is 36-38 degrees, and in LA it's 48-49.


If weather were the only factor, yes, it is easier to be homeless in Southern California.

There have been homeless for I don't know how long. Only recently in history have I noticed people complaining about them. We have a homeless group here on the south Oregon coast. It is also heavily MAGA evangelicals living and working here. The solution, from what I understand, is "they need to go back to California or Portland". So, push the problem on to someone else. Here is the kicker: these MAGAs then complain about how scary and horrible places like California and Portland are because they are not doing anything about the homeless!

Combine limited land, wealthy NIMBYs, libertarian-minded mental health codes, cheap street drugs, a climate that makes it easy for substance users to accept sleeping outside, and chronically underfund mental health and this is what you get.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:31 pm

seb146 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

And people struggle to afford $800 in the states listed and, as a result, end up homeless. Let me ask this way: Why is homelessness in LA worse than homelessness in Montgomery, Alabama? If you can't afford to live, why hold up one as a "liberal" failure but ignore the other?


Technically, being homeless in Montgomery is *far worse* than in LA. Montgomery has 106 rainy days per year on average, and LA has just 34. The average low in Dec/January in Montgomery is 36-38 degrees, and in LA it's 48-49.


If weather were the only factor, yes, it is easier to be homeless in Southern California.

There have been homeless for I don't know how long. Only recently in history have I noticed people complaining about them. We have a homeless group here on the south Oregon coast. It is also heavily MAGA evangelicals living and working here. The solution, from what I understand, is "they need to go back to California or Portland". So, push the problem on to someone else. Here is the kicker: these MAGAs then complain about how scary and horrible places like California and Portland are because they are not doing anything about the homeless!


Like I was saying earlier in the thread, part of the reason homelessness is so endemic is a lack of genuine compassion among the general population. This would be less of an issue if there was a proper social safety net.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Aaron747
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:33 pm

casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

And people struggle to afford $800 in the states listed and, as a result, end up homeless. Let me ask this way: Why is homelessness in LA worse than homelessness in Montgomery, Alabama? If you can't afford to live, why hold up one as a "liberal" failure but ignore the other?


Technically, being homeless in Montgomery is *far worse* than in LA. Montgomery has 106 rainy days per year on average, and LA has just 34. The average low in Dec/January in Montgomery is 36-38 degrees, and in LA it's 48-49.



This is the big thing I think no one has ever figured out. Being homeless in LA/Arizona/Las Vegas is so much better than being homeless in cities where rain,snow,extreme cold make life more difficult.
the other issue is that Tent Cities are much more visable in those cities. Here in the triangle, we have lots of homeless, but they all are in tent cities deep in the woods where you usually don't see them front and center, unless it is median collection time.


Weather is a major factor. When I was living in Hawaii, homelessness was being recognized as a growing issue at that time (more than 10 years ago). Whether local media could verify the stories or not, local residents were *convinced* the population was exploding because other states were giving homeless one-way tickets to HNL to 'get rid of them'. Regardless, pretty easy to live outside in a place where overnight temperatures range between 65 and 77 degrees.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
luckyone
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Re: California Defies Doom With No. 1 U.S. Economy

Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:56 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Technically, being homeless in Montgomery is *far worse* than in LA. Montgomery has 106 rainy days per year on average, and LA has just 34. The average low in Dec/January in Montgomery is 36-38 degrees, and in LA it's 48-49.



This is the big thing I think no one has ever figured out. Being homeless in LA/Arizona/Las Vegas is so much better than being homeless in cities where rain,snow,extreme cold make life more difficult.
the other issue is that Tent Cities are much more visable in those cities. Here in the triangle, we have lots of homeless, but they all are in tent cities deep in the woods where you usually don't see them front and center, unless it is median collection time.


Weather is a major factor. When I was living in Hawaii, homelessness was being recognized as a growing issue at that time (more than 10 years ago). Whether local media could verify the stories or not, local residents were *convinced* the population was exploding because other states were giving homeless one-way tickets to HNL to 'get rid of them'. Regardless, pretty easy to live outside in a place where overnight temperatures range between 65 and 77 degrees.

I think some of that is sociological, and a product of our loosening social fabric the last 30 years or so--people splintering off for jobs or perceived benefits of moving away from wherever their extended family lives. For whatever reason the "Go West" mentality is part of our culture, and indeed for many decades California and Hawaii were celebrated as paradises, land of opportunities, whatever you want to call it. That doesn't just attract money, but also people who are following the hype, in essence existentially looking for something, and when they don't find it, bad things ensure. The West Coast is "the end of the line" for a lot of these people. It doesn't happen right away, but over time people who moved out there looking for something--and subsequently don't have a lot of social support--wanderers if you will who have very little ability to absorb punches. The majority of people homeless in a particular area are indeed from there, but a substantial number are people who've drifted in from elsewhere. When I was in Seattle, it was not uncommon for me to have to track down family members on the East Coast as that was the only available person in a crisis. And if anyone thinks the states currently experiencing a lot of growth will have a simple fix for that problem, they're deluding themselves.

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