Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
LCDFlight wrote:People say doctor, agent orange destroyed my liver. While it also may be true that a 66 year old is no longer as healthy as the 19 year old who served. And the 40 years of drinking may have also played a role. People do tend to get older.
fr8mech wrote:As I mentioned in an earlier thread, it looked like I was going to be a “long-hauler” after I recovered from COVID. The same symptoms I had with the disease (fatigue, muscle aches, lethargy) remained, but to a lesser extent, long after the disease was gone. Those symptoms have completely disappeared 3 or 4 days after getting the second vaccine shot. Gone. Poof. No longer there. I felt, and continue to feel great.
Doc pointed out that there was some evidence that a third of long-haulers recover after their second shot. I did some research and found that it’s roughly a third to a half. This is an evolving thing, so you can expect variation. I won’t look for the stuff. You guys are probably much better at the internet than I am. If I could find it, so can you.
As for psychological issues stemming from Covid, I’m going to take, what is probably an unpopular stance, and say that any psychological trauma or scarring someone has from covid is their own damn fault*. Stop being a victim and deal with it.
When I was going through cancer treatments, my insurance covered cancer group sessions to help deal with the mental aspects. The wife and I decided to look into it. We lasted one session, because it was a bunch of people whining about getting cancer. Why me? That was the predominate theme.
I’m thinking the same thing here. Stop wondering why and it happened, specifically to you, and deal with it. Your response to the issue determines your attitude and long term psychological health.
*I will concede that those with a clinical psychological problem may we’ll be ill-equipped to deal with this additional trauma. I acknowledge that. My post is not for those folks. It’s for the rest of us.
lightsaber wrote:I didn't have the fatigue, but over two months after the 2nd dose I still cannot taste fat. This ruins the enjoyment of most deserts including ice cream and miss bacon.
I also have mild tinnitus on and off, apparently a very common long haul symptom.
Lightsaber
Newark727 wrote:I'm really curious what the biological difference between the long-haulers and the "typical" COVID-19 cases ends up being.
fr8mech wrote:A coworker also lost his sense of taste/smell, along with the other symptoms. His symptoms also lingered well past his recovery. After his 2nd dose, his symptoms disappeared except for the loss of taste/smell.
As for tinnitus, we are both 30+ years in aviation. Tinnitus, unfortunately, has been there for years.
lightsaber wrote:Potential long term bad effects on brain:
“We’re seeing a shrinkage in the study in three main areas, and these areas are responsible for taste and smell, memory, and emotion,” Nerurkar told NBC.[/i]
Loss of emotion... how does one tell in an engineer?
Lightsaber
c933103 wrote:Are they mostly lung or neural or heart problems?
Newark727 wrote:I'm really curious what the biological difference between the long-haulers and the "typical" COVID-19 cases ends up being.
Dutchy wrote:Long COVID is indeed a problem.
Another problem that arose from the COVID, and I feel is an underexposed problem, is all the medical procedures that could not be done, because the hospitals were overwhelmed with COVID-patients.
The numbers in the Netherlands, approx of course:
- 140.000 operations postponed
- few hundreds of patients died while waiting or undiagnosed diseases
- quality of life lost for tens of thousands of people
Source: link
pune wrote:Dutchy wrote:Long COVID is indeed a problem.
Another problem that arose from the COVID, and I feel is an underexposed problem, is all the medical procedures that could not be done, because the hospitals were overwhelmed with COVID-patients.
The numbers in the Netherlands, approx of course:
- 140.000 operations postponed
- few hundreds of patients died while waiting or undiagnosed diseases
- quality of life lost for tens of thousands of people
Source: link
I haven't looked up the numbers but would suspect similar or perhaps even greater numbers in India. My own mum was supposed to get a cataract eye operation, now indefinitely postphoned
LCDFlight wrote:Possibly people remain medically damaged after Covid, which I have no comment on
cpd wrote:LCDFlight wrote:Possibly people remain medically damaged after Covid, which I have no comment on
So the guy in Sydney who was very fit, rode bikes a lot then unfortunately got COVID and ended up with heart problems and seizures after it is, by the rest of your post probably wrong?
He was also a doctor and took all the precautions he could against getting the virus. He is now no longer able to drive a car (seizures) and cannot ride bikes like he used to because of the heart problems and the seizures. he never had those problems before COVID.
Another example of the long haul symptoms.
LCDFlight wrote:cpd wrote:LCDFlight wrote:Possibly people remain medically damaged after Covid, which I have no comment on
So the guy in Sydney who was very fit, rode bikes a lot then unfortunately got COVID and ended up with heart problems and seizures after it is, by the rest of your post probably wrong?
He was also a doctor and took all the precautions he could against getting the virus. He is now no longer able to drive a car (seizures) and cannot ride bikes like he used to because of the heart problems and the seizures. he never had those problems before COVID.
Another example of the long haul symptoms.
I’m not sitting here second guessing qualified doctors. Just making a simple point that long haul covid will be studied extensively. People’s feelings don’t change public health facts. The anecdote is interesting, but it does not prove Covid caused the heart problems. I had my heart condition deteriorate as I got older too. It happens. The real info will be, did 10,000 covid positive people have more problems than 10,000 similar covid negative people, after controlling for age, race, obesity, sex. That is where real public health knowledge is learned. And they will measure this and get back to us
fr8mech wrote:As I mentioned in an earlier thread, it looked like I was going to be a “long-hauler” after I recovered from COVID. The same symptoms I had with the disease (fatigue, muscle aches, lethargy) remained, but to a lesser extent, long after the disease was gone. Those symptoms have completely disappeared 3 or 4 days after getting the second vaccine shot. Gone. Poof. No longer there. I felt, and continue to feel great.
Doc pointed out that there was some evidence that a third of long-haulers recover after their second shot. I did some research and found that it’s roughly a third to a half. This is an evolving thing, so you can expect variation. I won’t look for the stuff. You guys are probably much better at the internet than I am. If I could find it, so can you.
As for psychological issues stemming from Covid, I’m going to take, what is probably an unpopular stance, and say that any psychological trauma or scarring someone has from covid is their own damn fault*. Stop being a victim and deal with it.
When I was going through cancer treatments, my insurance covered cancer group sessions to help deal with the mental aspects. The wife and I decided to look into it. We lasted one session, because it was a bunch of people whining about getting cancer. Why me? That was the predominate theme.
I’m thinking the same thing here. Stop wondering why and it happened, specifically to you, and deal with it. Your response to the issue determines your attitude and long term psychological health.
*I will concede that those with a clinical psychological problem may we’ll be ill-equipped to deal with this additional trauma. I acknowledge that. My post is not for those folks. It’s for the rest of us.
CitizenJustin wrote:I’d say your “just get over it” attitude is harmful and actually achieves the opposite.
TokyoImperialPa wrote:I think one of the biggest impacts of the coronavirus will be the mental health impact on younger people. And the amount of money being thrown on that is pittance compared to the vaccines.
fr8mech wrote:CitizenJustin wrote:I’d say your “just get over it” attitude is harmful and actually achieves the opposite.
As adults, I say that we can agree to disagree on that. And, if you don’t agree to disagree, I’ll get over it.
How we deal with emotional, psychological or physical trauma directly impacts our mental health. If you dwell on what “could have been” or “what should have been” or “what is” or “insert victim identity here, then you’re not fostering a healthy psychological outlook.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t ask “why?”. In fact, it is healthy and important to ask that question, and quite simply, to seek an answer. But, to dwell on that question to the point of paralysis is unhealthy.
Again, those that have a clinical mental issue need to be cared for in an appropriate manner. I leave that manner up to the professionals. But, we have a bumper crop of folks that are ill-equipped to deal with what has happened. And, frankly, that is our own fault, as parents and peers.
I started a thread a year or more ago concerning a podcast I had listened to. The quotation I wanted to discuss…and I’ll paraphrase…was
As society becomes safer, we become more risk averse.
This is the same here. We have become a coddled society and have forgotten that there are some real threats out there. And when a threat manifests itself, a comfortable society retreats and hides.
That is unhealthy.
So yes, is say, “get over it” or more properly “get off your ass and deal with the hand you’re dealt”. You’ll be a healthier (mentally) person for it.
LCDFlight wrote:While I can’t say anything useful on biology, I do watch people’s behavior. Many people have been deeply scarred psychologically by the covid ordeal. There is also media messaging telling people they will never recover. That’s powerful.
There is a well known phenomenon of people blaming ailments on particular causes that they heard may be associated. Military service resulting in lung cancer, liver disease, or emphysema for example because of banned chemicals. People say doctor, agent orange destroyed my liver. While it also may be true that a 66 year old is no longer as healthy as the 19 year old who served. And the 40 years of drinking may have also played a role. People do tend to get older.
Many of the people discouraged by covid May never recover, just as many people say the Great Recession of 2008-2010 ruined their lives permanently. Humans are very optimistic, but there are negative psychologies individual people go into. Particularly as they age
Possibly people remain medically damaged after Covid, which I have no comment on