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readytotaxi
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UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:20 pm

More than 20 Russian aircraft and two coastguard ships have shadowed a British warship sailing near Crimea.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57583363

The UK government rejected Russia's account of the incident and denied that any warning shots had been fired.

A little sabre-rattling?
 
SL1200MK2
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:38 pm

Maybe Russian will send their diesel powered aircraft carrier that needs a support ship for how much it breaks down.
 
GDB
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:54 pm

Full report;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLPYAKL-f2M

Not so new, there is a doc on Channel with another Type-45 in the same area a few years ago, getting buzzed by half a dozen Russian aircraft.
Internationally recognized waterways are what they say, not what a regime decides, in this case due to an illegal annexation.

Same with China trying to control international shipping lanes, just as in this case, they only stay internationally recognized if right of navigation is observed. Not just the US but both France and HMS Albion have done this in that region with China.

If either of them don't like it, easily fixed, abide by internally recognized laws of the sea.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:51 pm

GDB wrote:
Full report;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLPYAKL-f2M

Not so new, there is a doc on Channel with another Type-45 in the same area a few years ago, getting buzzed by half a dozen Russian aircraft.
Internationally recognized waterways are what they say, not what a regime decides, in this case due to an illegal annexation.

Same with China trying to control international shipping lanes, just as in this case, they only stay internationally recognized if right of navigation is observed. Not just the US but both France and HMS Albion have done this in that region with China.

If either of them don't like it, easily fixed, abide by internally recognized laws of the sea.


International law is paramount of course, but Russia has always thought the Black Sea is ‘theirs’.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:57 pm

Bring back the Iowa-class ships, or better yet, a modern Montana-class.
 
Newark727
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:28 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Bring back the Iowa-class ships, or better yet, a modern Montana-class.


I mean yeah, they're pretty badass, but to do what?
 
GDB
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:44 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Bring back the Iowa-class ships, or better yet, a modern Montana-class.


Yes, some long obsolete warships will really do it? USN needs to concentrate on getting those new Frigates, much more suited for this and modern naval operations in general.

That passage with all the others, also has the role of reassuring Georgia who as can be expected are feeling very threatened.
 
tu204
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:10 am

Hope someone will end up posting some video's or at least photos of the event. Took a couple days for them to come out when Ukraine tried provoking Russian Coast Guard which led to their asses getting rammed and some meme videos of the event getting posted. Hoping for the same here. Especially if stuff was dropped ahead of the bow.
 
tu204
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:13 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Bring back the Iowa-class ships, or better yet, a modern Montana-class.


Would make a nice target for a Bastion or a Kinzhal. Wonder how many an Iowa could take before going under.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:34 am

An UK warship in international waters or at least in Ukrainian national waters being targeted by an occupying force. The Putin regime is again being aggressive.
 
tommy1808
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:48 am

tu204 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Bring back the Iowa-class ships, or better yet, a modern Montana-class.


Would make a nice target for a Bastion or a Kinzhal. Wonder how many an Iowa could take before going under.


Given the just about zero chance to do damage below the water line probably a hell lot of them.

Dutchy wrote:
An UK warship in international waters or at least in Ukrainian national waters being targeted by an occupying force. The Putin regime is again being aggressive.


It would appear they didn´t get close enough for the UK ship to realize they meant them.... considering its a Type 45 that is probably good new for the Russian pilots.

best regards
Thomas
 
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scbriml
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:58 am

tu204 wrote:
Hope someone will end up posting some video's or at least photos of the event. Took a couple days for them to come out when Ukraine tried provoking Russian Coast Guard which led to their asses getting rammed and some meme videos of the event getting posted. Hoping for the same here. Especially if stuff was dropped ahead of the bow.


There was a report on the BBC evening news last night. The BBC have a reporter on the ship.

We saw a Russian coast guard cutter (my guess, I'm not really into boats), running very close to HMS Defender, we heard their threats over radio comms. We also saw multiple passes by an Su-24. There was some distant gun fire, but clearly no bombs were dropped. It was reported that a total of 20 aircraft were tracked by HMS Defender.
 
GDB
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:25 am

scbriml wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Hope someone will end up posting some video's or at least photos of the event. Took a couple days for them to come out when Ukraine tried provoking Russian Coast Guard which led to their asses getting rammed and some meme videos of the event getting posted. Hoping for the same here. Especially if stuff was dropped ahead of the bow.


There was a report on the BBC evening news last night. The BBC have a reporter on the ship.

We saw a Russian coast guard cutter (my guess, I'm not really into boats), running very close to HMS Defender, we heard their threats over radio comms. We also saw multiple passes by an Su-24. There was some distant gun fire, but clearly no bombs were dropped. It was reported that a total of 20 aircraft were tracked by HMS Defender.


Yes and the Russians had informed HMS Defender that there was a pre planned exercise in the area going on, clearly being unable to bully the ship into changing course they have modified the story, that pathetic half baked power play 'look at me the strongman' Putin BS.
There was also onboard HMS Defender a journalist from the Daily Mail, oh well, one of them would have had a clue, you saw his report.

Could have been worse, I mean M16 could have sent two agents into a Russian city and spread lethal chemical weapons around, literally throwing the remains into a street waste bin, only injuring their intended target (and his daughter), a civilian, a police officer and killing an innocent woman.
Oh right, that's Putin's way isn't it?
So they can stick their objections where the sun don't shine.
 
Reinhardt
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:52 am

I do love the outrage from the Russian government.. "We treat it as blatent Britain's provocation that is contrary with international law and Russian legilsation".

1/ Half the world doesn't recogonise Russians' take over of Crimea. It's Ukranian territory and therefore so are the waters out to 12nm. Claim it all you want, it's not recognised.
2/ It's a recognised shipping lane, and the UK has had military ships transit through there before (2019, HMS Duncan)
3/ Nobody else is subject to Russian leglisation

Russia has done far worse in the last 10 years with it's constant picking at airspace over Northern Europe and Alaska.

It's as bad if not worse than China claiming saling through the South China sea is a provocation or worrying about the Uighrs as it's an "Internal Chinese Matter".

These types of transits through clear internationally agreed water ways needs to increase, not decrease. You cannot just take over a country with a fake election and declare the waters yours, just like China cannot take over islands and reefs and declare it their's. They aren't going to start a war over it and it's high time we (as in the West, Nato whoever) started to show we're not taking this crap anymore.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:59 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
I1/ Half the world doesn't recogonise Russians' take over of Crimea. It's Ukranian territory and therefore so are the waters out to 12nm. Claim it all you want, it's not recognised.


Make that 90% plus. Claiming something doesn't make it so.
 
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Vio
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:40 pm

Last I checked, England is 2369 km away from the Crimean Peninsula....
 
tommy1808
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:50 pm

Vio wrote:
Last I checked, England is 2369 km away from the Crimean Peninsula....


And yet they are a member of NATO, which has more shore line on the Black sea than Russia.

Best regards
Thomas
 
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par13del
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 4:37 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
tu204 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Bring back the Iowa-class ships, or better yet, a modern Montana-class.


Would make a nice target for a Bastion or a Kinzhal. Wonder how many an Iowa could take before going under.


Given the just about zero chance to do damage below the water line probably a hell lot of them.
best regards
Thomas

...which would be the point, one of the things today is the high tech ability to detect multiple missiles inbound when you have very little capability to do anything about them and about the same to withstand a hit.....much different way of doing things today. Honestly, I am surprised that more CWIZ units are not deployed on ships, they may not have the range of the missiles but they can carry much more shots and will allow the ship to survive multiple missile attacks, note I said attacks, not hits, going on the assumption the mounts will be able to take out more missiles.
 
889091
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:36 pm

scbriml wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Hope someone will end up posting some video's or at least photos of the event. Took a couple days for them to come out when Ukraine tried provoking Russian Coast Guard which led to their asses getting rammed and some meme videos of the event getting posted. Hoping for the same here. Especially if stuff was dropped ahead of the bow.


There was a report on the BBC evening news last night. The BBC have a reporter on the ship.

We saw a Russian coast guard cutter (my guess, I'm not really into boats), running very close to HMS Defender, we heard their threats over radio comms. We also saw multiple passes by an Su-24. There was some distant gun fire, but clearly no bombs were dropped. It was reported that a total of 20 aircraft were tracked by HMS Defender.


https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-57587777
 
CRJockey
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:02 pm

What a boring story. Russia behaving like a huffy seven year old burning a bit of jet fuel on some old Su24 and a discomposed coast guard crew wasting some time on radio frequency just to achieve, well, nothing. Good for the Royal Navy crew though. Most probably the most exciting hours on board their vessel in years.

I wonder, though, about the chain of command on Russian side. Specifically how much fear of reprimand local commanders have in case they don't react "according to book" or "properly" or whatever is expected from them.
 
GDB
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:11 pm

CRJockey wrote:
What a boring story. Russia behaving like a huffy seven year old burning a bit of jet fuel on some old Su24 and a discomposed coast guard crew wasting some time on radio frequency just to achieve, well, nothing. Good for the Royal Navy crew though. Most probably the most exciting hours on board their vessel in years.

I wonder, though, about the chain of command on Russian side. Specifically how much fear of reprimand local commanders have in case they don't react "according to book" or "properly" or whatever is expected from them.


Certainly an experience for the newer sailors, however as stated this has been going on for some years, really it's almost an extension of the work ups RN ships do before being approved for deployment, including being buzzed by in this case Hawks.
The worry has to be something like a collision, or a flight crew misjudgement that the regime would try to play up, in the Cold War an AV-MF TU-16 hit the water when flying low and close to a USN vessel.
 
CRJockey
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:22 pm

GDB wrote:
CRJockey wrote:
What a boring story. Russia behaving like a huffy seven year old burning a bit of jet fuel on some old Su24 and a discomposed coast guard crew wasting some time on radio frequency just to achieve, well, nothing. Good for the Royal Navy crew though. Most probably the most exciting hours on board their vessel in years.

I wonder, though, about the chain of command on Russian side. Specifically how much fear of reprimand local commanders have in case they don't react "according to book" or "properly" or whatever is expected from them.


Certainly an experience for the newer sailors, however as stated this has been going on for some years, really it's almost an extension of the work ups RN ships do before being approved for deployment, including being buzzed by in this case Hawks.
The worry has to be something like a collision, or a flight crew misjudgement that the regime would try to play up, in the Cold War an AV-MF TU-16 hit the water when flying low and close to a USN vessel.


I know and I am with you here.

At the end of the day it is all posturing for the domestic, not international audience.
 
skyservice_330
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:37 pm

CRJockey wrote:
At the end of the day it is all posturing for the domestic, not international audience.


Agreed. It is hard not be a bit amused (and a bit pitiful I suppose) in response to this kind of second rate chest puffing from Russia, and how domestic and expat Russians eat it up as food to feed their collective sense of insecurity and second rate stature. Some of them really seem to think the world buys into the Putin show, the way they do, when in fact the rest of us see it for what it is and just look at them with a sense of collective befuddlement
 
tu204
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:25 pm

https://m.vz.ru/news/2021/6/24/1105725.html

Yeah, go on believing your propaganda, oh sorry, I meant to say media.

As I said, more info is surfacing about the incident. The Russian Coast Guard ship clearly had contact and clearly gage a warning, and fired warning shots. The British clearly tried a provocation. Everyone left alive and happy. Mission accomplished.

Next time might not be so lucky.
 
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scbriml
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:24 pm

tu204 wrote:
Yeah, go on believing your propaganda, oh sorry, I meant to say media.


Says person believing Russian propaganda. :lol:
 
wingman
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:28 pm

Some washed up drunks still have personality, not Russia though. It's just an epic embarrassment to everyone. The only thing missing from that You Tube video was Putin riding a chained dolphin through the waves shirtless.

I'm sorry tu, Russia just has absolutely nothing positive whatsoever to give to the world. Sure you have natural gas but it was already there. You guys are good for drilling a hole and flinging plutonium in peoples' faces. That's it. End of.
 
SL1200MK2
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:40 pm

scbriml wrote:
tu204 wrote:
Yeah, go on believing your propaganda, oh sorry, I meant to say media.


Says person believing Russian propaganda. :lol:


It is possible the russians were simply gawking at the modern warship.
 
SL1200MK2
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:43 pm

wingman wrote:
Some washed up drunks still have personality, not Russia though. It's just an epic embarrassment to everyone. The only thing missing from that You Tube video was Putin riding a chained dolphin through the waves shirtless.

I'm sorry tu, Russia just has absolutely nothing positive whatsoever to give to the world. Sure you have natural gas but it was already there. You guys are good for drilling a hole and flinging plutonium in peoples' faces. That's it. End of.


That is an interesting point that you make. When I consider it, I really can't think of much that russia adds to the world in the positive sense either. This not to say that I have not met lovely russians who have great attitudes. But, on the whole, what exactly does russia contribute?
 
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scbriml
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:57 pm

SL1200MK2 wrote:
But, on the whole, what exactly does russia contribute?


Mainly polonium and novichok.
 
GDB
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:14 pm

A similar RN vessel in the same region in 2018, including highlighting a potential if invisible threat to the Russian aircrew;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkKgVdAVgJs

17 aircraft back then, not prevented NATO ships exercising legal right of passage has it?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:00 am

SL1200MK2 wrote:
wingman wrote:
Some washed up drunks still have personality, not Russia though. It's just an epic embarrassment to everyone. The only thing missing from that You Tube video was Putin riding a chained dolphin through the waves shirtless.

I'm sorry tu, Russia just has absolutely nothing positive whatsoever to give to the world. Sure you have natural gas but it was already there. You guys are good for drilling a hole and flinging plutonium in peoples' faces. That's it. End of.


That is an interesting point that you make. When I consider it, I really can't think of much that russia adds to the world in the positive sense either. This not to say that I have not met lovely russians who have great attitudes. But, on the whole, what exactly does russia contribute?


One Russian friend told me once: 'we have a rich culture, but zero customer service and even worse government - for like ever'.
 
tommy1808
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Fri Jun 25, 2021 5:04 am

SL1200MK2 wrote:
But, on the whole, what exactly does russia contribute?


given the export data very little above the complexity of raw cut wood.

best regards
Thomas
 
Virtual737
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Fri Jun 25, 2021 1:41 pm

tu204 wrote:
Next time might not be so lucky.


Indeed. I didn't hear of a single Russian vessel breaking down this time.
 
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AirPacific747
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Fri Jun 25, 2021 2:04 pm

tu204 wrote:
https://m.vz.ru/news/2021/6/24/1105725.html

Yeah, go on believing your propaganda, oh sorry, I meant to say media.

As I said, more info is surfacing about the incident. The Russian Coast Guard ship clearly had contact and clearly gage a warning, and fired warning shots. The British clearly tried a provocation. Everyone left alive and happy. Mission accomplished.

Next time might not be so lucky.


How many times did Russia violate other countries' internationally recognized airspaces this year? And how many different countries? Pretty much all of Russia's neighbors plus a few on top of that I believe. Russia is like a big mafia organisation.

wingman wrote:
Some washed up drunks still have personality, not Russia though. It's just an epic embarrassment to everyone. The only thing missing from that You Tube video was Putin riding a chained dolphin through the waves shirtless.

I'm sorry tu, Russia just has absolutely nothing positive whatsoever to give to the world. Sure you have natural gas but it was already there. You guys are good for drilling a hole and flinging plutonium in peoples' faces. That's it. End of.


:checkmark:
 
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Dutchy
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:08 pm

tu204 wrote:
As I said, more info is surfacing about the incident. The Russian Coast Guard ship clearly had contact and clearly gage a warning, and fired warning shots. The British clearly tried a provocation. Everyone left alive and happy. Mission accomplished.


Russia is clearly violating Ukrainian territorial waters, so what right did it have to warn anyone? And what right has it has to fire warning shots? Who is provoking who? Following international law, it is very clear, but I guess Russia does not recognize international law.

tu204 wrote:
Next time might not be so lucky.


Kindergarten bully talk, the military is of limited use. When is Russia's 'leadership' going to realize that win-win is a better strategy than win-loose.
 
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mercure1
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Fri Jun 25, 2021 11:51 pm

Why poke the bear?

The UK quite clearly sailed to the Black Sea and close to Russia to stir the pot. Childish imo.
 
Virtual737
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:39 am

mercure1 wrote:
Why poke the bear?

The UK quite clearly sailed to the Black Sea and close to Russia to stir the pot. Childish imo.


Perhaps it was to send a message along the lines of "you may think this is now your territory, but much of the world does not". Is that childish? How close to the geography of your nation does a land grab need to be before you see a stand against it as something other than childish?
 
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scbriml
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:20 am

mercure1 wrote:
Why poke the bear?

The UK quite clearly sailed to the Black Sea and close to Russia to stir the pot. Childish imo.


Because appeasement always worked so well in the past.

Do you call out Russia for doing the exact same thing or for annexing parts of other countries?
 
tu204
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:52 am

But fact of the matter is that after getting some shots towards their rear ends, the ship changed course and left Russian territorial waters. But some British friends here, who's warship stuck their tail between their hind legs and ran off - are you guys for real? What are you guys talking about? Hat waving and machi whatever?
Suck it up and forget about it! Russian MoD made a statement, British MoD did. In the end the British are clearly full of BS on this incident, take it like a man and suck it up. Better luck next time.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:59 am

tu204 wrote:
But fact of the matter is that after getting some shots towards their rear ends, the ship changed course and left Russian territorial waters.


I did not see that, but I guess that was the story on Russian state-controlled media. What we do know is that it was nowhere near Russian territorial waters, so do not do these false statements, please.
 
GDB
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:16 am

mercure1 wrote:
Why poke the bear?

The UK quite clearly sailed to the Black Sea and close to Russia to stir the pot. Childish imo.


Nonsense. I even linked a similar incident from 2018, as stated NATO ships have a right under international law to use those waters, a similar thing happened with another RN Type 45 in 2020, so have other NATO ships, two nations nations on the Black Sea and have requested support, it is what NATO is for.

'Poke The Bear?' Well maybe when 'the (mangy, bad tempered ) bear' uses chemical weapons in a city of yours, you won't take such a craven attitude, or if the really reckless skirting and unlike in the Black Sea, going into other people's in this case airspace, bombers going into some of the most congested airspace in the world transponders turned off. What could go wrong?
Or putting a powerful surface to air missile system into Putin's thugs hands resulting in the slaughter of pax on MH17, or maybe you believe the many and varied Russian BS stories around that?

Putin really massed tens of thousands of troops on Ukraine's border recently, that and all the above are what is really 'reckless'.
 
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keesje
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Sat Jun 26, 2021 2:19 pm

Provocative..
 
ChrisKen
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Sat Jun 26, 2021 5:01 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Why poke the bear?

The UK quite clearly sailed to the Black Sea and close to Russia to stir the pot. Childish imo.

The UK sailed a vessel through an international shipping channel, as is the international community's right to do so. The international community will continue exercise their rights. Russia can try to claim the waters and rattle it's rusting sabres as much as it likes.....international law prevails. Avoiding the area will eventually legitimises Russia's aggressive, illegal annexation of Crimea so childish it is not.
 
johns624
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:45 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Why poke the bear?

The UK quite clearly sailed to the Black Sea and close to Russia to stir the pot. Childish imo.
Maybe France and the UK should've done the same thing when the Kuznetsov went up the English Channel. I guess they decided to save their munitions because they knew the Kuznetsov would sink on its own some day... :lol:
PS-- I bet the Brit Capt was thinking "I wish I had the loadout of a Burke if things get ugly".
Last edited by johns624 on Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
johns624
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:48 pm

tu204 wrote:
But fact of the matter is that after getting some shots towards their rear ends, the ship changed course and left Russian territorial waters. But some British friends here, who's warship stuck their tail between their hind legs and ran off - are you guys for real? What are you guys talking about? Hat waving and machi whatever?
Suck it up and forget about it! Russian MoD made a statement, British MoD did. In the end the British are clearly full of BS on this incident, take it like a man and suck it up. Better luck next time.
Would you rather have the Brits shoot down some of the Russian planes? The only statement that the Russian MoD made was "we can only project power right on our doorstep".
 
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scbriml
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:59 pm

tu204 wrote:
But fact of the matter is that after getting some shots towards their rear ends, the ship changed course and left Russian territorial waters.


Lol, HMS Defender was never in Russian territorial waters. Deluded, much like Vlad.
 
LMP737
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Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:48 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Bring back the Iowa-class ships, or better yet, a modern Montana-class.


The Iowa's no longer belong to the USN so the chances of that happening are rather slim.
 
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Dano1977
Posts: 758
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:49 pm

Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:58 pm

johns624 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Why poke the bear?

The UK quite clearly sailed to the Black Sea and close to Russia to stir the pot. Childish imo.
Maybe France and the UK should've done the same thing when the Kuznetsov went up the English Channel. I guess they decided to save their munitions because they knew the Kuznetsov would sink on its own some day... :lol:
PS-- I bet the Brit Capt was thinking "I wish I had the loadout of a Burke if things get ugly".


The Type 45 destroyer is rather a splendid ship and more than capable of defending herself or when sailing with a UK Battlegroup. In fact One Type 45 destroyer can track and attack more targets than the Old Type 42 destroyer fleet of which there were 14.

My only gripe, is the Government got cheap and cancelled 6 Type 45's and only went with 6 in the fleet.

As for the incident, It goes to show the professionalism of the Royal Navy. Kept there cool and let the Russians grandstand trying to provoke a response which wasn't forthcoming.
 
johns624
Posts: 3980
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:17 pm

Dano1977 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Why poke the bear?

The UK quite clearly sailed to the Black Sea and close to Russia to stir the pot. Childish imo.
Maybe France and the UK should've done the same thing when the Kuznetsov went up the English Channel. I guess they decided to save their munitions because they knew the Kuznetsov would sink on its own some day... :lol:
PS-- I bet the Brit Capt was thinking "I wish I had the loadout of a Burke if things get ugly".


The Type 45 destroyer is rather a splendid ship and more than capable of defending herself or when sailing with a UK Battlegroup. In fact One Type 45 destroyer can track and attack more targets than the Old Type 42 destroyer fleet of which there were 14.

My only gripe, is the Government got cheap and cancelled 6 Type 45's and only went with 6 in the fleet.

As for the incident, It goes to show the professionalism of the Royal Navy. Kept there cool and let the Russians grandstand trying to provoke a response which wasn't forthcoming.
My point was that it has a much more limited missile load than other AAW destroyers like the Burkes and the latest ROK and Japanese models. You can never have too many weapons. Comparing it to a Type 42 doesn't mean anything. The T42's had problems way back during the Falklands war.
 
GDB
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: UK warship attracts Russian attention off Crimea coast.

Mon Jun 28, 2021 4:11 pm

johns624 wrote:
Dano1977 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Maybe France and the UK should've done the same thing when the Kuznetsov went up the English Channel. I guess they decided to save their munitions because they knew the Kuznetsov would sink on its own some day... :lol:
PS-- I bet the Brit Capt was thinking "I wish I had the loadout of a Burke if things get ugly".


The Type 45 destroyer is rather a splendid ship and more than capable of defending herself or when sailing with a UK Battlegroup. In fact One Type 45 destroyer can track and attack more targets than the Old Type 42 destroyer fleet of which there were 14.

My only gripe, is the Government got cheap and cancelled 6 Type 45's and only went with 6 in the fleet.

As for the incident, It goes to show the professionalism of the Royal Navy. Kept there cool and let the Russians grandstand trying to provoke a response which wasn't forthcoming.
My point was that it has a much more limited missile load than other AAW destroyers like the Burkes and the latest ROK and Japanese models. You can never have too many weapons. Comparing it to a Type 42 doesn't mean anything. The T42's had problems way back during the Falklands war.


Point taken however unlike it’s predecessors the T-45 has plenty of extra space, there is for instance space for 16 more VLS tubes between the main ones. To Dano’s point on the numbers, while the RN pushed for 12 when the program started in 1999, I suspect it was a best case ask, after all by the time the first ones hit the water they knew the older Type 42’s would already be gone and remainder with final upgrades would be 8. That was their real target. Had we not been in both Iraq and Afghanistan at the same time, diverting a lot of spending to urgent operational requirements, they probably would have got eight.
There again, the 2008 financial crisis, the carrier and F-35, ordering and building the Astute Class, with spending to begin on the new SSBN’s, the QE and subs being capital ship programs.

Despite being built to frankly absurd treasury imposed false economies, I think the Type 42 are overly maligned, at the end of the day, they kept the enemy air force too low for comfort (and often bomb detonation), effective recon, it’s Sea Darts brought down more aircraft than any other system apart from the Sea Harriers, the two lost were in deliberately exposed positions. HMS Coventry in particular, over several days she seriously disputed attacks so in the end the enemy had to switch resources to going after her. In 1991 another Type 42 did the first combat shoot down of a anti ship missile, it might have been just a Chinese made ‘Silkworm’ but it was headed for the USS Missouri and no one eise had brought it down or decoyed it. Unlike comparable ships of their generation they were tested in a distant, unplanned, near peer shooting war.

Back to the present, some might have seen retired RN officer Chris Parry, who had experience in both the Cold War and Falklands, commenting on this, after reiterating the need to ensure law breaking regimes do not impose their own ‘laws of the sea’, he pointed out that at this time, HMS Defender is doing this, QE’s air group are conducting airstrikes against Danesh, a Type 23 is in Greece on a diplomatic and trade mission, to jons624’s point about the Kuznetsov, Parry added about the Russian reaction ‘frankly, I think they are jealous’.

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