Miami Condo Partially Collapsed

extender · Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:27 pm

This video gives some clues into what got the dominoes going:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUrHdwdZyWc

There are reports of building cracking and groaning an hour prior to the collapse, with one lady shagging ass out of there. The people we have been discussing this all came up with the same thing, why not pull the fire alarm? Unless they did and it wasn't working.

casinterest · Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:52 pm

extender wrote:
This video gives some clues into what got the dominoes going:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUrHdwdZyWc

There are reports of building cracking and groaning an hour prior to the collapse, with one lady shagging ass out of there. The people we have been discussing this all came up with the same thing, why not pull the fire alarm? Unless they did and it wasn't working.

I thought the same thing. Pull the fire alarm, Too late now. but it is freaky about the warning signs

T4thH · Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:15 pm

casinterest wrote:
extender wrote:
This video gives some clues into what got the dominoes going:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUrHdwdZyWc

There are reports of building cracking and groaning an hour prior to the collapse, with one lady shagging ass out of there. The people we have been discussing this all came up with the same thing, why not pull the fire alarm? Unless they did and it wasn't working.

I thought the same thing. Pull the fire alarm, Too late now. but it is freaky about the warning signs

It is always so easy to say. The question is: "will you all also think about to pull the fire alarm, when you are in panic"?
Another thing; were all of them aware, it will collapse, or does most of them just thought, there is a little problem (and never believed, it will collapse)? And of course....do they fear, if they pull the fire alarm incorrect, they will be charged?
In other countries, like Germany, you will be protected by law, insurance and private funds, so when you can explain, that you have pulled it to prevent something, even, it was wrong, you will not be charged. Is it the same in USA?

Seems the rest off the building gets in trouble, it is cracking and making strange noises, so it is moving. Seems it wants to re-join the rest, so the pile of rubble.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/one-week-after-miami-building-collapse-search-rescue-halted-due-n1272891

ltbewr · Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:19 pm

On Thursday, 7/1, rescue and recovery has been suspended at the building site over concern as to the structural integrity of the remaining part of the building. President Biden (along with other US officials and the First Lady) is to visit the site today to express his condolences, in support of the First Responders and survivors, as well as to note the participation of the Federal government agencies in this disaster. https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/01/us/miami ... index.html

extender · Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:46 pm

What remains standing, can come down at any moment. That is apparent from the post-incident images.

Okie · Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:05 pm

extender wrote:
This video gives some clues into what got the dominoes going:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUrHdwdZyWc

There are reports of building cracking and groaning an hour prior to the collapse, with one lady shagging ass out of there. The people we have been discussing this all came up with the same thing, why not pull the fire alarm? Unless they did and it wasn't working.

Your video indicated it was a requirement of the AHJ for the parking garage have a sprinkler system and it appears to be flow from that system.

I do not know the requirements of the AHJ on the "Alarm System" at this structures location but any structure I have ever was involved, the structure's insurance required periodic alarm testing of riser flow.

If that was the case then the Alarm should have been activated and fire services would be responding, short of a few second delay for water pressure variations.

Okie

Aesma · Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:56 pm

Imagine you hear/feel something is wrong, you pull the fire alarm, everybody in the building starts running up and down...causing it to collapse right away ?

chimborazo · Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:13 pm

Aesma wrote:
Imagine you hear/feel something is wrong, you pull the fire alarm, everybody in the building starts running up and down...causing it to collapse right away ?

Tough decision. But better to pull it.

Buildings should not need structural maintenance for a very long time. They do… but they shouldn’t. Most of the money folk pay is for location… that is really sad. Pay high end rates for low end build quality. Location, location.

There is no good reason this place should have collapsed after 40 years… except cheap build. It’s absolutely shocking and a statement to the (relatively) modern way of doing things. Just throw it up,get the money and move on.

petertenthije · Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:07 pm

chimborazo wrote:
Buildings should not need structural maintenance for a very long time. They do… but they shouldn’t.

Ain’t that the truth! Even Pripyat, the abandoned city near Chernobyl, is still standing. Dozens of highrise buildings, long abandoned, no maintenance whatsoever. Not being near the sea certainly helps, but still!

StarAC17 · Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:33 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
DLFREEBIRD wrote:

https://www.bestofluxuryrealty.com/Surf ... s-For-Sale

then click on past sales, a one-bedroom condo goes for 350 to 400k two-bedroom 500k four-bedroom units went for nearly 3 million. three bedrooms for 1 million These people had money. The repair bill was 9 million, not 90 million. there are 136 units that still 69k per unit if they had done the repairs back in 2018. I think the new estimate was 15m which would be 114k per unit. Not sure if the association was setting aside funds, to repair this from the residence monthly maintenance fees. They had to know the longer they delayed the repairs, the more damage could be done and the more expensive they would be. You have to seriously wonder about their mindset, seems to me they didn't understand the seriousness of the report. I wonder if those in the association in the know decided to sell. There is a story here, but we probably won't hear it.
https://www.voanews.com/usa/miami-build ... irs-needed

I heard that the residents were going to pay $25,000 per unit for a special assessment to fix the needed repairs so I am thinking the condo corp was securing some degree of financing that would be passed through to the owners through regular maintenance fees. However I only heard this on CNN last night, this article shows the fees as up to at minimum 80k per resident depending on the size of the unit.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/28/us/surfs ... index.html

Just think how much cheaper it would have been if they fixed the seawater incursions of the garage and pool area in the 1990s. Morons

I hope you tell your congressman this. Every year the US drags its heels on infrastructure development its going to cost more and more to the taxpayer.

Short term thinking will be the death of us.

StarAC17 · Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:46 pm

Aesma wrote:
Imagine you hear/feel something is wrong, you pull the fire alarm, everybody in the building starts running up and down...causing it to collapse right away ?

This would have been moot because there was no real way to buy any more time and the load of people in a building is miniscule and even running wouldn't likely accelerate what was going to happen.

extender wrote:
What remains standing, can come down at any moment. That is apparent from the post-incident images.

There are plans to do a controlled demolition of the remaining tower.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/01/us/miami ... index.html

petertenthije wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
Buildings should not need structural maintenance for a very long time. They do… but they shouldn’t.

Ain’t that the truth! Even Pripyat, the abandoned city near Chernobyl, is still standing. Dozens of highrise buildings, long abandoned, no maintenance whatsoever. Not being near the sea certainly helps, but still!

Look at the ancient buildings in Rome and Athens, they are still standing after thousands of years.

GalaxyFlyer · Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:28 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Imagine you hear/feel something is wrong, you pull the fire alarm, everybody in the building starts running up and down...causing it to collapse right away ?

This would have been moot because there was no real way to buy any more time and the load of people in a building is miniscule and even running wouldn't likely accelerate what was going to happen.

extender wrote:
What remains standing, can come down at any moment. That is apparent from the post-incident images.

There are plans to do a controlled demolition of the remaining tower.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/01/us/miami ... index.html

petertenthije wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
Buildings should not need structural maintenance for a very long time. They do… but they shouldn’t.

Ain’t that the truth! Even Pripyat, the abandoned city near Chernobyl, is still standing. Dozens of highrise buildings, long abandoned, no maintenance whatsoever. Not being near the sea certainly helps, but still!

Look at the ancient buildings in Rome and Athens, they are still standing after thousands of years.

Or cathedrals at Chartes, Amiens, Ely, Koln. Old great houses in England. My area has plenty of inhabited houses from the 1700s.

Aaron747 · Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:35 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Imagine you hear/feel something is wrong, you pull the fire alarm, everybody in the building starts running up and down...causing it to collapse right away ?

This would have been moot because there was no real way to buy any more time and the load of people in a building is miniscule and even running wouldn't likely accelerate what was going to happen.

extender wrote:
What remains standing, can come down at any moment. That is apparent from the post-incident images.

There are plans to do a controlled demolition of the remaining tower.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/01/us/miami ... index.html

petertenthije wrote:
Ain’t that the truth! Even Pripyat, the abandoned city near Chernobyl, is still standing. Dozens of highrise buildings, long abandoned, no maintenance whatsoever. Not being near the sea certainly helps, but still!

Look at the ancient buildings in Rome and Athens, they are still standing after thousands of years.

Or cathedrals at Chartes, Amiens, Ely, Koln. Old great houses in England. My area has plenty of inhabited houses from the 1700s.

Steel frame midrise and highrise buildings from the 1920s and 1930s are still going strong from Boston to SF. Nearly all of the seriously damaged buildings in 1995 Kobe and 1985 CDMX quakes were unreinforced masonry or concrete. Reinforced concrete buildings can be built faster but I think the maintenance requirements make them losers long term. Since steel frame is preferred in seismic zones, and they have proven their worth in spades, perhaps non-seismic zones like MIA can prioritize steel frame designs in updated codes for large structures intended for 50+ year use.

StarAC17 · Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:09 pm

extender wrote:
This video gives some clues into what got the dominoes going:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUrHdwdZyWc

There are reports of building cracking and groaning an hour prior to the collapse, with one lady shagging ass out of there. The people we have been discussing this all came up with the same thing, why not pull the fire alarm? Unless they did and it wasn't working.

Good explanation.

Initially it looked like the columns he is describing are too far to be visible by the people shooting the building from the garage (88th st) but taking a look at the plans those columns highlighted in blue (around 12:55 in the video) are in fact at the edge of the building where the pool deck starts. The pool deck would be the first thing to fail as its a slab

I think if these people moved 10 feet to the left and shot to the right side of the garage those interior columns which there are 5 of may have already given way and the additional load on the exterior walls and support columns made the building a ticking time bomb.

This is similar to how the WTC collapsed in 9/11. The burning jet fuel weakened (did not melt) the interior steel support columns and the external support couldn't hold the building up. Had the exterior columns walls on the WTC not been enough to support the buildings with a wall taken out from each jet, they would have collapsed right away but the fires took time to cause those collapses.

Pellegrine · Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:27 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:

Condo residents are often noted for unwillingness to pay for needed maintenance. Sometimes we don't need to blame the federal, state, or local government. Sometimes, as per Cassius to Brutus, the fault does not lie in the stars. I have had people in our condo complaining about the cost for needed repairs. They drive a Porsche and a Lexus. I was polite, but pissed. Washington State has had to pay out millions for lax permitting in liability claims for cliff collapses - probably to the same persons or families of those who protested to the zoning which would have prevented the development.

I was going to say something like this early on, but you're saying it a bit more eloquently than I would have. The individual owners may very well be responsible for their own, and other deaths. Barring some major engineering problem inherent to the building design.

StarAC17 · Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:32 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:

Condo residents are often noted for unwillingness to pay for needed maintenance. Sometimes we don't need to blame the federal, state, or local government. Sometimes, as per Cassius to Brutus, the fault does not lie in the stars. I have had people in our condo complaining about the cost for needed repairs. They drive a Porsche and a Lexus. I was polite, but pissed. Washington State has had to pay out millions for lax permitting in liability claims for cliff collapses - probably to the same persons or families of those who protested to the zoning which would have prevented the development.

I was going to say something like this early on, but you're saying it a bit more eloquently than I would have. The individual owners may very well be responsible for their own, and other deaths. Barring some major engineering problem inherent to the building design.

I saw a CNN report on the North Tower and that tower had gone through a few special assessments over the years and it was in great shape.

extender · Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:51 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
Condo residents are often noted for unwillingness to pay for needed maintenance. Sometimes we don't need to blame the federal, state, or local government. Sometimes, as per Cassius to Brutus, the fault does not lie in the stars. I have had people in our condo complaining about the cost for needed repairs. They drive a Porsche and a Lexus. I was polite, but pissed. Washington State has had to pay out millions for lax permitting in liability claims for cliff collapses - probably to the same persons or families of those who protested to the zoning which would have prevented the development.

I was going to say something like this early on, but you're saying it a bit more eloquently than I would have. The individual owners may very well be responsible for their own, and other deaths. Barring some major engineering problem inherent to the building design.

Yes and no. The problem we have in SFLA (at least as far as I am concerned) is both Condo and HOA associations are corrupt as hell. Money evaporates and when you try yo look at the books, you get stonewalled. I dealt with one, ran and got elected. Once I was able to see the widespread chaos, we as the new board, made changes that made things transparent. When you are dealing with your reserve items, and something unexpected comes up, you have to rob Peter to pay Paul. If you hesitate on dropping the gavel on a special assessment, it can bite you in the butt. And you get the miscreants that spread false information, leading to a crowd that vote down the assessment. And there is what Pellegrine alludes to, they probably signed their death warrants. Sad to say.

casinterest · Fri Jul 02, 2021 6:22 pm

Because the pool couldn't be closed and Morabito had stability concerns, tower management was advised that work in the pool area "would be limited to removal of only loose concrete," the letter said.
Morabito also directed Concrete Protection & Restoration Inc. to perform "exploratory demolition" in five areas on the building's first floor, and CPR found "some curious results as it pertained to the structural slab's depth," the letter said, without elaborating.

More details on the October repair attempts.
It seems to me that keeping the pool open was tantamount, but shouldn't the engineering firm have known better? Especially with "Curious Results"

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/02/us/engin ... index.html

GalaxyFlyer · Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:17 pm

extender wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
Condo residents are often noted for unwillingness to pay for needed maintenance. Sometimes we don't need to blame the federal, state, or local government. Sometimes, as per Cassius to Brutus, the fault does not lie in the stars. I have had people in our condo complaining about the cost for needed repairs. They drive a Porsche and a Lexus. I was polite, but pissed. Washington State has had to pay out millions for lax permitting in liability claims for cliff collapses - probably to the same persons or families of those who protested to the zoning which would have prevented the development.

I was going to say something like this early on, but you're saying it a bit more eloquently than I would have. The individual owners may very well be responsible for their own, and other deaths. Barring some major engineering problem inherent to the building design.

Yes and no. The problem we have in SFLA (at least as far as I am concerned) is both Condo and HOA associations are corrupt as hell. Money evaporates and when you try yo look at the books, you get stonewalled. I dealt with one, ran and got elected. Once I was able to see the widespread chaos, we as the new board, made changes that made things transparent. When you are dealing with your reserve items, and something unexpected comes up, you have to rob Peter to pay Paul. If you hesitate on dropping the gavel on a special assessment, it can bite you in the butt. And you get the miscreants that spread false information, leading to a crowd that vote down the assessment. And there is what Pellegrine alludes to, they probably signed their death warrants. Sad to say.

My father was the treasurer of his 24-unit condo association. He pointed out the need for reserves for roof replacement that hadn’t been assessed or planned for. They hated him and boo’d the idea, couldn’t or wouldn’t pay for the extra monthly charge. The next year, a hurricane marched thru Ft Myers, insurance paid for a new roof. He was a goat for proposing an assessment and hero for managing the insurance and roofing contractor. He even managed the jobwell enough to put a little in the bank account. HOA or condo association is an awful way to live is what I learned. He died the next June, his last work was settling the accounts while dying with liver cancer.

frmrCapCadet · Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:54 pm

Washington State has requirements for HOAs to fund necessary repairs or reserves. These supersede any existing condominium contracts. It does make being on a board easier. The board can merely point out that it is now the law. It does not at this time require earthquake insurance, although I think it should. We narrowly passed this several years ago. It seems fairly standard in Seattle.

flyingturtle · Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:05 pm

Ugh. Reminds me of the old adage "There are no bad people - only bad incentives."

I'd create a solution where condo owners could not sell their condo, but exchange their condo for a share (and vice versa). Only after a grace period, the share can be sold.

"Uh, the building just collapsed and now I own a worthless share. Well, I should have voted for the repairs three years ago..."

ltbewr · Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:42 pm

So far, 20 bodies recovered, the number missing adjusted down to 128 after an audit. Some persons counted as missing have been located, there was some duplication of notifications, some Jewish persons have 'English' and Hebrew names so some were double counted.
https://www.aol.com/news/collapsed-flor ... 02376.html

Aaron747 · Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:27 am

Now as the race to inspect begins, a condo building in North Miami Beach has been ordered to evacuate. Interesting the city manager says in the article that safety is the top priority, yet the owners of the building in question have been sitting on a report their building is UNSAFE since January :scratchchin:

https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/local/ ... ssion=true

ltbewr · Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:52 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Now as the race to inspect begins, a condo building in North Miami Beach has been ordered to evacuate. Interesting the city manager says in the article that safety is the top priority, yet the owners of the building in question have been sitting on a report their building is UNSAFE since January

https://amp.miamiherald.com/news/local/ ... ssion=true

The evacuation has started this evening in the nearly 50 year old building and likely to last all night long. The report on the building was completed earlier this year but only disclosed a few days ago. This may be a sign of what could be a number of older condo buildings in the region to also have to be evacuated for severe structural and other problems. https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/02/us/north ... index.html

DLFREEBIRD · Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:16 am

StarAC17 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:

I heard that the residents were going to pay $25,000 per unit for a special assessment to fix the needed repairs so I am thinking the condo corp was securing some degree of financing that would be passed through to the owners through regular maintenance fees. However I only heard this on CNN last night, this article shows the fees as up to at minimum 80k per resident depending on the size of the unit.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/28/us/surfs ... index.html

Just think how much cheaper it would have been if they fixed the seawater incursions of the garage and pool area in the 1990s. Morons

I hope you tell your congressman this. Every year the US drags its heels on infrastructure development its going to cost more and more to the taxpayer.

Short term thinking will be the death of us.

Good point !

DLFREEBIRD · Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:33 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
extender wrote:
Pellegrine wrote:

I was going to say something like this early on, but you're saying it a bit more eloquently than I would have. The individual owners may very well be responsible for their own, and other deaths. Barring some major engineering problem inherent to the building design.

Yes and no. The problem we have in SFLA (at least as far as I am concerned) is both Condo and HOA associations are corrupt as hell. Money evaporates and when you try yo look at the books, you get stonewalled. I dealt with one, ran and got elected. Once I was able to see the widespread chaos, we as the new board, made changes that made things transparent. When you are dealing with your reserve items, and something unexpected comes up, you have to rob Peter to pay Paul. If you hesitate on dropping the gavel on a special assessment, it can bite you in the butt. And you get the miscreants that spread false information, leading to a crowd that vote down the assessment. And there is what Pellegrine alludes to, they probably signed their death warrants. Sad to say.

My father was the treasurer of his 24-unit condo association. He pointed out the need for reserves for roof replacement that hadn’t been assessed or planned for. They hated him and boo’d the idea, couldn’t or wouldn’t pay for the extra monthly charge. The next year, a hurricane marched thru Ft Myers, insurance paid for a new roof. He was a goat for proposing an assessment and hero for managing the insurance and roofing contractor. He even managed the jobwell enough to put a little in the bank account. HOA or condo association is an awful way to live is what I learned. He died the next June, his last work was settling the accounts while dying with liver cancer.

My condolences, that's a terrible way to have a loved one go. I've never sat on a condo association board, however, I have heard that it's very difficult to get money out of condo owners period. Needless to say, in these situations, people like your father are essential, they need to be people oriented otherwise they won't get anything productive done.

readytotaxi · Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:53 am

"The demolition of the standing portion of the apartment block that collapsed near Miami has been brought forward due to an approaching tropical storm."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57707533

DIRECTFLT · Sun Jul 04, 2021 7:05 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
"The demolition of the standing portion of the apartment block that collapsed near Miami has been brought forward due to an approaching tropical storm."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57707533

Drilling nearly done to demolish rest of collapsed condo

https://apnews.com/article/fl-state-wir ... e4568971b3

Pellegrine · Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:33 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The video shows sequence of collapse of the Champlain Towers South is simulated with a possible explanation for the failure illustrated.

On 24 Jun 2021 the Champlain South Tower collapsed at 1:15am. This is a 12 storey 126 unit condominium building in Miami Florida. It was built in 1981.

The 3D animation to illustrate the building and structure is based on Architectural and Structural drawing made available by the town of Surfside. The events and sequences are based on key photographic evidence and eyewitness accounts. The engineering reports on the planned repairs have been used in preparing this analysis.

I (Mike Bell) have a career in designing and constructing buildings including experience in the USA. I caution that its still too early to know why it collapsed. This video is only a suggestion of the root cause of the failure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hynHiWE818c

Great animation...

phatfarmlines · Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:55 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
"The demolition of the standing portion of the apartment block that collapsed near Miami has been brought forward due to an approaching tropical storm."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57707533

Drilling nearly done to demolish rest of collapsed condo

https://apnews.com/article/fl-state-wir ... e4568971b3

Looks like the surviving portion of the condo has been demolished. Tough call for the mayor to make, but there's not much to be done with a potential tropical storm/hurricane threat looming.

StarAC17 · Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:18 am

phatfarmlines wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
"The demolition of the standing portion of the apartment block that collapsed near Miami has been brought forward due to an approaching tropical storm."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57707533

Drilling nearly done to demolish rest of collapsed condo

https://apnews.com/article/fl-state-wir ... e4568971b3

Looks like the surviving portion of the condo has been demolished. Tough call for the mayor to make, but there's not much to be done with a potential tropical storm/hurricane threat looming.

Video of the remaining structure being brought down.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/sur ... 87505/?amp

Aaron747 · Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:38 am

Textbook demolition and great communication from Miami-Dade PD. This is how well things work when engineers are in charge.

ltbewr · Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:46 am

This was likely the best way to deal with a bad situation. There was too much danger in letting the remaining part of the structure to continue to stand for those searching for the remains of those buried under the original rubble as well as those persons in and to the adjacent structures. The grim task of recovery of human remains, to examine the building debris for information to determine the cause of collapse and deal with the clearing of the site can now continue.
It will be interesting to see what happens to this site, should it be replaced with a new building or perhaps become a public memorial park.

Aaron747 · Mon Jul 05, 2021 3:54 am

ltbewr wrote:
This was likely the best way to deal with a bad situation. There was too much danger in letting the remaining part of the structure to continue to stand for those searching for the remains of those buried under the original rubble as well as those persons in and to the adjacent structures. The grim task of recovery of human remains, to examine the building debris for information to determine the cause of collapse and deal with the clearing of the site can now continue.
It will be interesting to see what happens to this site, should it be replaced with a new building or perhaps become a public memorial park.

Anything other than a park or memorial would be pretty tasteless.

Pellegrine · Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:31 am

Aaron747 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
This was likely the best way to deal with a bad situation. There was too much danger in letting the remaining part of the structure to continue to stand for those searching for the remains of those buried under the original rubble as well as those persons in and to the adjacent structures. The grim task of recovery of human remains, to examine the building debris for information to determine the cause of collapse and deal with the clearing of the site can now continue.
It will be interesting to see what happens to this site, should it be replaced with a new building or perhaps become a public memorial park.

Anything other than a park or memorial would be pretty tasteless.

I'm sorry, this attitude irks me to no end. Land is land. I don't believe 1WTC and 2WTC should have been left pits in the ground. This is prime development land, sure put a quiet memorial off to one side, that's all that's needed.

DIRECTFLT · Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:39 am

StarAC17 wrote:
Video of the remaining structure being brought down.

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/sur ... 87505/?amp

Surfside condo building: before, during and after the demolition

Miami Herald Video

https://youtu.be/RslkMukgMoo

Aaron747 · Mon Jul 05, 2021 6:39 am

Pellegrine wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
This was likely the best way to deal with a bad situation. There was too much danger in letting the remaining part of the structure to continue to stand for those searching for the remains of those buried under the original rubble as well as those persons in and to the adjacent structures. The grim task of recovery of human remains, to examine the building debris for information to determine the cause of collapse and deal with the clearing of the site can now continue.
It will be interesting to see what happens to this site, should it be replaced with a new building or perhaps become a public memorial park.

Anything other than a park or memorial would be pretty tasteless.

I'm sorry, this attitude irks me to no end. Land is land. I don't believe 1WTC and 2WTC should have been left pits in the ground. This is prime development land, sure put a quiet memorial off to one side, that's all that's needed.

It depends on what happened. Accidents are accidents, so I wouldn't say the same for the site of a major fire, tornado hit, anything of that nature. This was total negligence, and therefore needless. As for 'prime development land', we'll see how people feel about that 20 years from now in that location.

frmrCapCadet · Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:28 pm

Best memorial would be good condo laws and regulations with regard to inspections and more important required reserves for funding needed maintenance. "Champlain Regulations require ..... " would be written in every condo and co-op operating statements. No further explanation would be needed.

I suspect that in our state board members would be egregiously at fault if they did not fund needed maintenance. HOA liability insurance may not protect them from failing in their duty. I could see the state and federal government facilitating condos in this funding. Not so much subsidizing, but in low interest loans, paperwork assistance, education for board members. (LOL, nation building).

luckyone · Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:36 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Best memorial would be good condo laws and regulations with regard to inspections and more important required reserves for funding needed maintenance. "Champlain Regulations require ..... " would be written in every condo and co-op operating statements. No further explanation would be needed.

I suspect that in our state board members would be egregiously at fault if they did not fund needed maintenance. HOA liability insurance may not protect them from failing in their duty. I could see the state and federal government facilitating condos in this funding. Not so much subsidizing, but in low interest loans, paperwork assistance, education for board members. (LOL, nation building).

I have a lot of skepticism that such a policy would fly with the current political environment in Florida (and a few other places). As soon as some entitled folks who don’t have the money reframe the discussion into “the government is costing me money,” it’ll become a rallying cry for the “limited government” people.

GalaxyFlyer · Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:23 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Best memorial would be good condo laws and regulations with regard to inspections and more important required reserves for funding needed maintenance. "Champlain Regulations require ..... " would be written in every condo and co-op operating statements. No further explanation would be needed.

I suspect that in our state board members would be egregiously at fault if they did not fund needed maintenance. HOA liability insurance may not protect them from failing in their duty. I could see the state and federal government facilitating condos in this funding. Not so much subsidizing, but in low interest loans, paperwork assistance, education for board members. (LOL, nation building).

How can the board members be held accountable, if the residents don’t approve the assessments? They are answerable to the condo residents, not the insurers or state governments. If the residents don’t or cannot pay the assessments required by a valid inspection process, that’s on them. Maybe 80-year old residents don’t have the money or it occupied by short-term twenty-somethings.

frmrCapCadet · Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:43 pm

Boards, at least in Washington State, have a lot of power. They can be voted out at the annual meeting, or even recalled. But in our state boards have the responsibility to fund the reserve fund. If ours did not, I could take them to court. If fellow owners elected another board they still would have that obligation. Faced with legal liabilities for failing to do their duty will scare any board member into resigning or complying with the law. If a member owner cannot afford the HOA dues and reserve fees we all would be sympathetic, but they need to either pay up, or realize they cannot afford to live here. Boards here is Washington always collect past dues, reserve fees, late fees, attorney fees. We even had an attorney who tried to escape some of that, we got it all. HOAs rank ahead even of banks in collecting those arrears. So boards are understanding, work with people who can't afford to live here, but do collect.

GalaxyFlyer · Mon Jul 05, 2021 11:00 pm

Another reason not to live in a condo. As Maureen Dowd in the NYT (!) called WA, “jackboots in sandals”.

HOAs are either fleecing you or putting your asset at risk becoming a pile of rubble. Yes, there’s plenty of good ones, but I want not part of one greater than one story high. I like my house on 8 acres, well, septic and standby gennie.

extender · Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:27 am

Another good explanation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEPyE2h6P4k

A lot of information to absorb, but this should never have happened.

Aaron747 · Wed Jul 07, 2021 8:12 am

Possible serious concerns now for a condo complex in Marina del Rey that is pretty well known to anyone familiar with LA and Southern Cal. You can see them clearly to the north on any departure from LAX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I84IKGgPlZQ

luckyone · Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:01 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Possible serious concerns now for a condo complex in Marina del Rey that is pretty well known to anyone familiar with LA and Southern Cal. You can see them clearly to the north on any departure from LAX.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I84IKGgPlZQ

I imagine that condo boards around the country are taking inventory, and I won't be the least bit surprised to see HOA fees significantly increase across the board.

extender · Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:05 pm

Not sure if it is the same in the rest of the country, but Home owners' associations and Condo associations are two very different things.

luckyone · Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:41 pm

extender wrote:
Not sure if it is the same in the rest of the country, but Home owners' associations and Condo associations are two very different things.

At Condos they can be the same thing, and though you're right they are also often separate, the term is used interchangeably. Either way the fee is referred to as HOA fee.

DIRECTFLT · Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:33 am

Miami Condo Collapse: Where's Security Camera Videos? 911 Calls?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeS7rxPr6IM

Previously Jeff Ostroff analyzed 2 videos of exclusive inside the parking garage of the Champlain Towers South, site of the Miami Condo collapse and gives you a frame by frame explanation of what you are seeing, and all the damage on the ceilings, and water leaks on the floors. How does it all lead to the final collapse of the building?

Kiwirob · Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:35 am

petertenthije wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
Buildings should not need structural maintenance for a very long time. They do… but they shouldn’t.

Ain’t that the truth! Even Pripyat, the abandoned city near Chernobyl, is still standing. Dozens of highrise buildings, long abandoned, no maintenance whatsoever. Not being near the sea certainly helps, but still!

A better example would be Famagusta, abandoned in 1974, right beside the sea, lots of tall buildings still standing.

Aaron747 · Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:29 am

Kiwirob wrote:
petertenthije wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
Buildings should not need structural maintenance for a very long time. They do… but they shouldn’t.

Ain’t that the truth! Even Pripyat, the abandoned city near Chernobyl, is still standing. Dozens of highrise buildings, long abandoned, no maintenance whatsoever. Not being near the sea certainly helps, but still!

A better example would be Famagusta, abandoned in 1974, right beside the sea, lots of tall buildings still standing.

What an incredible place - that was fascinating to research, thanks!

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