Mass graves found at another Catholic school in Canada

MaverickM11 · Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:07 pm

This is the second Catholic school mass grave discovered in a month!

"Hundreds of unmarked graves have been found near a former Catholic residential school for Indigenous children in western Canada, local media reported late on Wednesday, weeks after the discovery of the remains of hundreds of Indigenous schoolchildren sent shock waves through the country."

"Last month, the remains of 215 children, some as young as three years old, were found buried on the site of what was once Canada’s largest Indigenous residential school near Kamloops, British Columbia."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/2 ... -in-canada

skyservice_330 · Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:29 pm

This, unfortunately, is likely to be a common occurrence in the coming weeks/months/years given the number of schools that existed across Canada over the last century and the increased awareness/acknowledgement that there is likely unmarked graves at some or many of them. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission noted that this was an area (unmarked graves) that needed to be investigated further between the Crown and Indigenous communities to support healing and reconciliation. Survivors shared stories about kids just disappearing, no questions asked, or about kids being asked to dig holes on properties.

flyingturtle · Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:18 pm

I wonder when the Catholic Church is going to be prosecuted as the mafia-like criminal organization it really is.

skyservice_330 · Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:24 pm

These schools were run by the Catholics but also others (Anglicans as well, if I recall). However, from what I gather the Catholic Church has been the least cooperative in addressing what occurred in terms of their willingness to turn over records or to otherwise engage in a cooperative way.

From this CBC article: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudea ... -1.6053565

Church officials have so far resisted making public the records related to the school. That resistance is said to be stalling efforts to identify children who may be buried there.

"As a Catholic, I am deeply disappointed by the decision that the Catholic Church has taken now and over the past many years," the prime minister said during a news conference today.

Trudeau said he's asked Pope Francis to commit to a number of restitution measures, including a formal apology and the publication of records associated with Canada's residential school system.

The Church has not yet delivered on any of those requests.

"We're still seeing resistance from the Church," Trudeau said.

"I think it's going to be a really important moment for all of us, particularly Catholics across the country, to reach out in our local parishes, to reach out to bishops, cardinals, and make it clear we expect the Church to step up and take responsibility for its role in this."

ltbewr · Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:53 pm

At some point, the Roman Catholic Church will collapse from losing so many giving up on it due to its obscene history as to sexual and other abuse over the last millennia. The only way the RCC survives in much of the USA is by persons illegally here from Mexico, Central and South America still attending. I gave up on attending mass years ago as could no longer support their counteractions.

ThePointblank · Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:21 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
This is the second Catholic school mass grave discovered in a month!

"Hundreds of unmarked graves have been found near a former Catholic residential school for Indigenous children in western Canada, local media reported late on Wednesday, weeks after the discovery of the remains of hundreds of Indigenous schoolchildren sent shock waves through the country."

"Last month, the remains of 215 children, some as young as three years old, were found buried on the site of what was once Canada’s largest Indigenous residential school near Kamloops, British Columbia."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/6/2 ... -in-canada

Total number of graves discovered with ground penetrating radar is 751, over 3 times that of the discovery in Kamloops:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatch ... -1.6078375

The article notes that they suspect that there were markers for the graves initially, but by the 1960's, the Catholic Church had removed the markers...

frmrCapCadet · Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:55 pm

This gives you an idea of how dis-empowered the members of the First Nation were in Canada. Their kids could die, and there was no accountability. I have not heard what happened to US Indians whose kids died in far away schools. Anybody have any information. But there will be more information coming out. At least the kids' bodies were not thrown in a cess pool as happened in Ireland.

Pardon the cynic in me, but do note that these kids were born, hence lost all right to life. It is only the unborn who have rights, per most ultra-conservative religious people.

alberchico · Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:47 am

I'm a bit confused by this story. Are we talking about people who died of natural causes and were buried in a disrespectful manner, or is there foul play suspected ?

Aaron747 · Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:58 am

flyingturtle wrote:
I wonder when the Catholic Church is going to be prosecuted as the mafia-like criminal organization it really is.

They have well-placed friends where they need them. Just like with the abuse scandals, this takes forever to unravel.

StarAC17 · Fri Jun 25, 2021 3:08 am

flyingturtle wrote:
I wonder when the Catholic Church is going to be prosecuted as the mafia-like criminal organization it really is.

When the 1 billion or so people realize that Christianity (which Catholicism is a part) is simply self appointed moral superiority. That is what enables not just Catholics but other religions to get away with nearly all the crap that they get away with.

Now humanity has a habit of doing this regardless but it makes it easier to defang a fellow human being as opposed to an alleged god.

If you haven't figured it out I am no fan of religion :alert:

ThePointblank · Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:00 am

alberchico wrote:
I'm a bit confused by this story. Are we talking about people who died of natural causes and were buried in a disrespectful manner, or is there foul play suspected ?

The Residential School system has a fairly nasty history, where in essence, it was an effort by past governments and the churches to eradicate Indigenous culture by effectively kidnapping Indigenous people's kids from their families and holding them in inhumane conditions where abuse and mistreatment was common. The legacy of the entire system is still being felt today, with Indigenous people suffering from extremely high levels of poverty, drug and alcohol abuse, and trauma that persists today.

You can read about the entire system from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's reports here:

https://nctr.ca/records/reports/

flyingturtle · Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:34 am

ThePointblank wrote:
The Residential School system has a fairly nasty history, where in essence, it was an effort by past governments and the churches to eradicate Indigenous culture by effectively kidnapping Indigenous people's kids from their families and holding them in inhumane conditions where abuse and mistreatment was common.

It's a sober reminder that not only "those Germans during the 1940ies" are doing Nazi things. Many of our countries had a wish to eradicate the way other people live, or even their existence.

Switzerland kidnapped gypsies, and put them into foster "care", psychiatric hospitals, or prisons, in the hope they would take up a sedentary life style, thus destroying their ethnicity and culture. And the programme ran until 1973. It can be legally qualified as genocide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder_der_Landstrasse

Aaron747 · Sat Jun 26, 2021 9:55 am

flyingturtle wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
The Residential School system has a fairly nasty history, where in essence, it was an effort by past governments and the churches to eradicate Indigenous culture by effectively kidnapping Indigenous people's kids from their families and holding them in inhumane conditions where abuse and mistreatment was common.

It's a sober reminder that not only "those Germans during the 1940ies" are doing Nazi things. Many of our countries had a wish to eradicate the way other people live, or even their existence.

Switzerland kidnapped gypsies, and put them into foster "care", psychiatric hospitals, or prisons, in the hope they would take up a sedentary life style, thus destroying their ethnicity and culture. And the programme ran until 1973. It can be legally qualified as genocide.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder_der_Landstrasse

One would hope university students and other frequent protesters show as much interest in justice for less visible groups as they do for mainstream minorities. Canadians need to take to the streets to demand their federal government properly deal with the Church's inability to take responsibility for these tragedies.

As for Kinder der Landstrasse, this was the first I was aware of that program, thank you. Learn something new about the dark side of our species every day...

DLFREEBIRD · Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:45 pm

alberchico wrote:
I'm a bit confused by this story. Are we talking about people who died of natural causes and were buried in a disrespectful manner, or is there foul play suspected ?

Were talking about a higher percentage rate of bodies found for those attending these schools. I am sure an autopsy will be done to get to the bottom of this. The children were forced from their indigenous families to attend school against their will in order to convert them to the catholic faith or Christianity. It was a hostile enviroment. Many children were severely disciplined according to children who attended these schools. Most children that disappeared were told by their classmates that they had run away, now they are wondering what really happened. There have been books written about this, and a couple of films about how badly these children were treated during this time period. I suspect this is why they started to investigate the grounds of these schools.

johns624 · Sat Jun 26, 2021 7:07 pm

Ireland had a similar situation with unwed mothers. It's terrible when the state and church are in collusion, as there's nobody to defend the weak.

frmrCapCadet · Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:58 pm

Actually the government's goal was de-culturizing Indians (US), or First Nation (Canada).

ThePointblank · Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:45 pm

Another 182 unmarked graves discovered at a former Residential school in Cranbrook, BC:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.6085990

Again, they used ground-penetrating radar and many of the graves appear to be shallow, about a metre deep.

Per the story, the school was converted into golf resort and casino owned by the Ktunaxa Nation after the school closed in the 1970's.

ltbewr · Wed Jun 30, 2021 11:50 pm

Four Catholic churches in First Nations communities have been burned down over the last week. Likely this is in revenge for the in fact genocidal horrors that the RCC residential schools in Canada that have been most recently disclosed what is now over 1000 remains of former students at the schools. https://news.yahoo.com/four-catholic-ch ... 03524.html
Apparently in most Canadian provinces, provincial governments give public tax monies for current Roman Catholic and some Anglican church K-12 schools. This is generally not allowed in the USA. Perhaps the National government of Canada must end perhaps by an amendment to their Constitution to ban such use of tax monies for private Catholic and Anglican schools. This would be a badly needed reform and a message to the Churches they don't deserve taxpayers monies for the terrible harm they did.
https://www.pressreader.com/

Jalap · Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:11 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
ThePointblank wrote:
The Residential School system has a fairly nasty history, where in essence, it was an effort by past governments and the churches to eradicate Indigenous culture by effectively kidnapping Indigenous people's kids from their families and holding them in inhumane conditions where abuse and mistreatment was common.

It's a sober reminder that not only "those Germans during the 1940ies" are doing Nazi things. Many of our countries had a wish to eradicate the way other people live, or even their existence.

Wouldn't be too sure to write this in past tense. Surely there's plenty countries where this is happening right now. And everybody may immediately call "China", but there's powers in every Western country who thrive on cultural conflict. Only a matter of time before they're in power and take actions that'll shock future generations.

It's easy to blame the Catholic church here, but that's shooting the piano player.

johns624 · Thu Jul 01, 2021 2:57 pm

Jalap wrote:

It's easy to blame the Catholic church here, but that's shooting the piano player.

It isn't like the Catholic Church doesn't have a long history of covering up illegal or immoral practices. It's all about the money...

bennett123 · Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:44 pm

What was the Canadian Government doing when this was happening?.

ltbewr · Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:52 pm

bennett123 wrote:
What was the Canadian Government doing when this was happening?.

The operation of the schools was part of the past Canadian and provincial government policy to destroy the First Nations people and communities. Sadly most Canadians and government leaders, didn't care, didn't want to know, wouldn't investigate or look at and agreed with what these schools did.

LittleFokker · Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:40 pm

Tough timing that these graves have been discovered near Canada Day, but it's good the truth comes to light. Every nation has its flaws, but how you reconcile with those flaws determines whether or not you are a world leader.

slider · Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:00 pm

How horrid. Just unfathomable.

I certainly hope the Catholic Church is held to account. This will get worse before it gets better, I fear.

ThePointblank · Thu Jul 01, 2021 8:23 pm

slider wrote:
How horrid. Just unfathomable.

I certainly hope the Catholic Church is held to account. This will get worse before it gets better, I fear.

They will likely find more at other sites. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Jalap · Fri Jul 02, 2021 11:59 am

johns624 wrote:
Jalap wrote:

It's easy to blame the Catholic church here, but that's shooting the piano player.
It isn't like the Catholic Church doesn't have a long history of covering up illegal or immoral practices. It's all about the money...

Mind you, I'm not giving an excuse to the chruch, often the piano player deserves to be shot. And I'm no fan of religion, not at all. But in this case, it's too easy to just blame the church.

My point is: what happened back then most likely only happened because it was allowed to happen. The government and population most likely supported it. At least the goal they were trying to achieve. And the way they were doing it, people just don't want to know. If you don't know, you're not responsible, right?

ltbewr · Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:22 pm

Jalap wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Jalap wrote:

It's easy to blame the Catholic church here, but that's shooting the piano player.
It isn't like the Catholic Church doesn't have a long history of covering up illegal or immoral practices. It's all about the money...

Mind you, I'm not giving an excuse to the chruch, often the piano player deserves to be shot. And I'm no fan of religion, not at all. But in this case, it's too easy to just blame the church.

My point is: what happened back then most likely only happened because it was allowed to happen. The government and population most likely supported it. At least the goal they were trying to achieve. And the way they were doing it, people just don't want to know. If you don't know, you're not responsible, right?

Indeed, the subjugation and genocide of the First Nations persons was a politically popular policy well into the 20th Century to take their land, timber, water, oil and other mineral wealth. These schools were part of that genocide to reach those goals, using an unholy alliance with church groups. I suspect past political leaders of these policies should have their names removed from schools, other public buildings, their statues removed from places of honor,and hopefully the Canadian and provincial governments go after the Church groups that they worked with, to take property to give to First Nations persons, to give them full payments for current and past mineral and other extractions, to show respect to the mass graves of the child victims of these schools, and continue to make amends for the past.

johns624 · Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:23 pm

ltbewr wrote:
Jalap wrote:
johns624 wrote:
It isn't like the Catholic Church doesn't have a long history of covering up illegal or immoral practices. It's all about the money...

Mind you, I'm not giving an excuse to the chruch, often the piano player deserves to be shot. And I'm no fan of religion, not at all. But in this case, it's too easy to just blame the church.

My point is: what happened back then most likely only happened because it was allowed to happen. The government and population most likely supported it. At least the goal they were trying to achieve. And the way they were doing it, people just don't want to know. If you don't know, you're not responsible, right?

Indeed, the subjugation and genocide of the First Nations persons was a politically popular policy well into the 20th Century to take their land, timber, water, oil and other mineral wealth. These schools were part of that genocide to reach those goals, using an unholy alliance with church groups. I suspect past political leaders of these policies should have their names removed from schools, other public buildings, their statues removed from places of honor,and hopefully the Canadian and provincial governments go after the Church groups that they worked with, to take property to give to First Nations persons, to give them full payments for current and past mineral and other extractions, to show respect to the mass graves of the child victims of these schools, and continue to make amends for the past.

Just a few points...I'm on another forum that has quite a few Canadians. Their take is slightly different. I agree with parts of it. They said that all this has been known for quite a while. Maybe not all the details, but it was fairly common knowledge. Their take is that Justin Trudeau is taking a lot of heat for his Covid policies and especially his very slow vaccine procurement and rollout. They see this as a "Hey, look over there" scheme to take pressure off of him.
My dad and his buddies used to get an RV and go up to North Bay every year for walleye fishing. Quite a bit of liquor was taken for "relaxing" in the evening. They were going across the border one year and Canadian Customs asked a new guy why they had so much alcohol. Trying to joke, he said "we're going to give it to the Indians". Wrong answer. Their vehicle was gone over with a fine tooth comb. That was the attitude back then, and to a degree, even today.

FlapOperator · Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:39 pm

I know no one likes to interrupt a good outrage, but many of these schools were A) FN run and administrated B) at a time when youth/infant mortality was terrible even in optimum conditions and C) with next to no resources, as was common nearly everywhere in rural North America at the time.

Rural electrification, today nothing of even basic accessible medical care, modern sewage, etc. was still occurring in the mid to late 1950s within driving distance to major cities. Child morality was real.

Unmarked and/or mass Graves are pretty common in rural America into the 1960s. Even in national cemeteries like Arlington, there is lots of effort into finding lost/mismarked/unmarked Graves. That is Arlington. One could only imagine the record keeping in some rural setting.

The conditions for youth and women even today on some Reservations shocks the conscience.

FlapOperator · Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:41 pm

johns624 wrote:
Just a few points...I'm on another forum that has quite a few Canadians. Their take is slightly different. I agree with parts of it. They said that all this has been known for quite a while. Maybe not all the details, but it was fairly common knowledge. Their take is that Justin Trudeau is taking a lot of heat for his Covid policies and especially his very slow vaccine procurement and rollout. They see this as a "Hey, look over there" scheme to take pressure off of him.
My dad and his buddies used to get an RV and go up to North Bay every year for walleye fishing. Quite a bit of liquor was taken for "relaxing" in the evening. They were going across the border one year and Canadian Customs asked a new guy why they had so much alcohol. Trying to joke, he said "we're going to give it to the Indians". Wrong answer. Their vehicle was gone over with a fine tooth comb. That was the attitude back then, and to a degree, even today.

Bootlegging to dry counties in Alaska is still a real occurrence and a real crime.

CitizenJustin · Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:52 am

ltbewr wrote:
At some point, the Roman Catholic Church will collapse from losing so many giving up on it due to its obscene history as to sexual and other abuse over the last millennia. The only way the RCC survives in much of the USA is by persons illegally here from Mexico, Central and South America still attending. I gave up on attending mass years ago as could no longer support their counteractions.

You may be right elsewhere, but I don’t see many illegal immigrants at my grandparents Catholic church. Mostly middle to upper middle class Caucasian families who’re the most hypocritical people you’ve ever seen. Many deny the severity of the sex scandal and some even go as far as to say this is the “devils work” to destroy the one true church. All of it is quite absurd.

MaverickM11 · Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:53 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
I know no one likes to interrupt a good outrage, but many of these schools were A) FN run and administrated B) at a time when youth/infant mortality was terrible even in optimum conditions and C) with next to no resources, as was common nearly everywhere in rural North America at the time.

Rural electrification, today nothing of even basic accessible medical care, modern sewage, etc. was still occurring in the mid to late 1950s within driving distance to major cities. Child morality was real.

Unmarked and/or mass Graves are pretty common in rural America into the 1960s. Even in national cemeteries like Arlington, there is lots of effort into finding lost/mismarked/unmarked Graves. That is Arlington. One could only imagine the record keeping in some rural setting.

The conditions for youth and women even today on some Reservations shocks the conscience.

That is partly true but these are not the result of high mortality rates. Iit was part of an organized genocide that the catholic church gladly took part in, and it's by no means the first catholic mass grave of orphans, never mind the well documented and extensive abuse that was commonplace.

seb146 · Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:10 pm

FlapOperator wrote:
johns624 wrote:
Just a few points...I'm on another forum that has quite a few Canadians. Their take is slightly different. I agree with parts of it. They said that all this has been known for quite a while. Maybe not all the details, but it was fairly common knowledge. Their take is that Justin Trudeau is taking a lot of heat for his Covid policies and especially his very slow vaccine procurement and rollout. They see this as a "Hey, look over there" scheme to take pressure off of him.
My dad and his buddies used to get an RV and go up to North Bay every year for walleye fishing. Quite a bit of liquor was taken for "relaxing" in the evening. They were going across the border one year and Canadian Customs asked a new guy why they had so much alcohol. Trying to joke, he said "we're going to give it to the Indians". Wrong answer. Their vehicle was gone over with a fine tooth comb. That was the attitude back then, and to a degree, even today.

Bootlegging to dry counties in Alaska is still a real occurrence and a real crime.

Alaska does not have counties, it has boroughs and not every town is in a borough. Angoon and Hoonah, for example. Alcohol can be purchased across Alaska. It is harder to come by in some communities because of the remoteness. I have been to southeast Alaska a few times and had some great beers there. Alcohol is easy to get in Canada as well. I don't know about the First Nations reserves but on American Native reservations, alcohol is not sold in stores.

Driving across I-80 through Nevada is interesting. IIRC, Battle Mountain is on a Native reservation, so it is dry but much of Nevada offers alcohol sales 24/7. "Dry" counties are mostly in the south.

ThePointblank · Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:18 am

More than 160 additional unmarked grave sites have been found at another Residential school near Vancouver Island:

https://www.citynews1130.com/2021/07/12 ... er-island/

PENELAKUT (NEWS 1130) — The Penelakut Tribe has confirmed more than 160 unmarked, undocumented graves at the site of a former residential school on their territory near Vancouver Island.

The Kuper Island Indian Residential School, located off the coast of Cheamainus in the Southern Gulf Islands, operated between 1889 and 1975 and was run by the federal government and the Roman Catholic Church. The building was demolished in the 1980s and Kuper Island was renamed as Penelakut in 2010.

“We understand that many of our brothers and sisters from our neighboring communities attended the Kuper Island Industrial School. We also recognize with a tremendous amount of grief and loss, that too many did not return home,” says a statement from Chief Joan Brown that was shared online by Cowichan Tribes.

“It is impossible to get over acts of genocide and human rights violations. Healing is an ongoing process, and sometimes it goes well, and sometimes we lose more people because the burden is too great. We are at another point in time where we must face the trauma because of these acts of genocide. Each time we do, it is possible to heal a little more.”

The institution was known as “Canada’s Alcatraz” because of its remote location, and because of documented cases of children who died trying to escape.

scbriml · Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:00 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
That is partly true but these are not the result of high mortality rates. Iit was part of an organized genocide that the catholic church gladly took part in, and it's by no means the first catholic mass grave of orphans, never mind the well documented and extensive abuse that was commonplace.

Apparently, posting a picture of the pope and jokingly referring to him as a predator was too much for some sensitive souls. I'm sure thoughts, prayers and seeking forgiveness will work. But wait, that's what happens every time one of these sickening incidents is uncovered. Rinse and repeat. :banghead:

If only the "was" were true - these events are still being covered up by the catholic church and the guilty are not facing justice. :sarcastic:

ltbewr · Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:53 am

I think the USA government needs to look further about its own 'Indian' schools as likely have mass graves of students as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... an_schools

MaverickM11 · Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:26 pm

ltbewr wrote:
I think the USA government needs to look further about its own 'Indian' schools as likely have mass graves of students as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... an_schools

I'm sure that will go over like a lead balloon with the CRT hysteria crowd

bennett123 · Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:37 pm

Would be interesting to hear more about the role of the Canadian Government and wider society in all of this.

seb146 · Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:50 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Would be interesting to hear more about the role of the Canadian Government and wider society in all of this.

Probably something to do with mineral and timber rights. Isn't that always the excuse?

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net