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DIRECTFLT
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Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:14 am

Amazon has more than 115,000 drivers working under independent small businesses - Delivery Service Partners, or DSPs - who deliver Prime packages to doorsteps with one-day shipping. We talked to current and former Amazon DSP drivers about the pressures of the job. From urinating in bottles to running stop signs, routes that lead drivers to run across traffic, dog bites and cameras recording inside vans at all times - some of the 115,000 DSP drivers have voiced big concerns.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSDQeGxnXyY

I'm hoping that by posting this CNBC report from June 19, 2021, that we can have a discussion about labor, contractors, independent contractors, and what this means for non-union workers in this age of Corporate micro-managing, maximizing profits, and maximizing the amount of work you get from workers just under the point of their exhaustion.
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Aaron747
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:21 am

Obviously we need a major pro-labor movement, but that will not be forthcoming. Reagan made sure unions of all kinds would never increase in popularity again.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:07 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Obviously we need a major pro-labor movement, but that will not be forthcoming. Reagan made sure unions of all kinds would never increase in popularity again.


CEO's pay has increased 100X, yet workers wages have remained flat for decades. The Govt. increases welfare to families with kids, but the frontline worker, especially one without kids, gets to live week to week. What a glorious system!!!
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:24 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Obviously we need a major pro-labor movement, but that will not be forthcoming. Reagan made sure unions of all kinds would never increase in popularity again.


CEO's pay has increased 100X, yet workers wages have remained flat for decades. The Govt. increases welfare to families with kids, but the frontline worker, especially one without kids, gets to live week to week. What a glorious system!!!


People value their jobs too much to stage walkouts and other actions that would get CEO and BOD attention. But I also wonder how many Americans are actually aware of what the chart of executive vs. average compensation actually looks like post-1975.
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DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:16 pm

well, this prime day, I got my packages a full week later, none of this next day service. I see trucks delivering amazon all over town, every single day. I actually try not to give amazon business, but they had 4 pkgs sheets for 13.00 which were regular 51.00 so, apparently, my ethics is determined by how low amazon prices go on a prime day.

I think our economy is recovering and that there will be more jobs for these drivers to take, and they can give amazon the boot.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:36 pm

Low wage workers do not get to make the rules, or get much in benefits........... Same Ol Story different day. McDonalds, Wal-mart, Amazon.. Not much difference.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
Newark727
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:38 pm

casinterest wrote:
Low wage workers do not get to make the rules, or get much in benefits........... Same Ol Story different day. McDonalds, Wal-mart, Amazon.. Not much difference.


Excuse me, they're not workers, they're "contractors." And if you have any ideas to the contrary I will purchase state ballot initiatives to legally ensure you're wrong ;)
 
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casinterest
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:43 pm

Newark727 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Low wage workers do not get to make the rules, or get much in benefits........... Same Ol Story different day. McDonalds, Wal-mart, Amazon.. Not much difference.


Excuse me, they're not workers, they're "contractors." And if you have any ideas to the contrary I will purchase state ballot initiatives to legally ensure you're wrong ;)



They are workers, for themselves, and they "contracted" with Amazon exclusively. The legal loopholes of all of this should someday get flehsed out in court that Amazon's "
contract" makes them employees.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did..So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.--Mark Twain
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:51 pm

casinterest wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Low wage workers do not get to make the rules, or get much in benefits........... Same Ol Story different day. McDonalds, Wal-mart, Amazon.. Not much difference.


Excuse me, they're not workers, they're "contractors." And if you have any ideas to the contrary I will purchase state ballot initiatives to legally ensure you're wrong ;)



They are workers, for themselves, and they "contracted" with Amazon exclusively. The legal loopholes of all of this should someday get flehsed out in court that Amazon's "
contract" makes them employees.


Agreed, it's high time courts address this in specific industries. As a general rule, the higher the skills employed, the greater the likelihood a court will find the work consistent with independent contracting. Likewise, the more the contract entails specific procedures to be followed, the more the ruling should lean toward an employer-employee contract. From this standard, everyone but Amazon can see that what they are doing is the latter.
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Wed Jun 30, 2021 2:57 pm

I think that the US Congress/US Labor Dept. needs to step in with regulations that make this kind of delivery job more humane. One way is to require more delivery drivers, or tell the company to forget about 1-day and 2-day guaranteed deliveries.
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johns624
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:42 pm

What I find very ironic is that many of the workers who would benefit the most from being in a union, are anti-union. The corporations have them convinced that the corporation has their best interests at heart. They also exaggerate how much union dues are. I don't have a lot of sympathy for them anymore. It doesn't help that the Democrats are supposedly the party of the "worker", yet they stay mum on Amazon's practices because Bezos is a huge supporter and it's all about the money.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:59 pm

johns624 wrote:
What I find very ironic is that many of the workers who would benefit the most from being in a union, are anti-union.


That is because they like their jobs. I don't think not running stop signs is going to be the end of 1 or two day service.
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johns624
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:09 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
johns624 wrote:
What I find very ironic is that many of the workers who would benefit the most from being in a union, are anti-union.


That is because they like their jobs. I don't think not running stop signs is going to be the end of 1 or two day service.
They don't like their jobs. They just "like" having a job and know they'd be fired if they so much as mention the word "union". Even professionals like airline pilots know you can't fight a corporation yourself and that you need a union.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:30 am

You don’t need to fight, just move on to a better offer of which there are plenty. Firing your employer, “take this job and shove it” is very satisfying. I did it 2 years prior to civil service retirement eligibility when I didn’t like the deal anymore. Too many people live their lives in chains, never know they have the keys.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Fri Jul 02, 2021 1:44 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
You don’t need to fight, just move on to a better offer of which there are plenty. Firing your employer, “take this job and shove it” is very satisfying. I did it 2 years prior to civil service retirement eligibility when I didn’t like the deal anymore. Too many people live their lives in chains, never know they have the keys.


Relatively easy for people in the skilled/certified worker category to do - not so much in the category these delivery drivers are in.
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lightsaber
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:44 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
You don’t need to fight, just move on to a better offer of which there are plenty. Firing your employer, “take this job and shove it” is very satisfying. I did it 2 years prior to civil service retirement eligibility when I didn’t like the deal anymore. Too many people live their lives in chains, never know they have the keys.


Relatively easy for people in the skilled/certified worker category to do - not so much in the category these delivery drivers are in.

The problem with automation is more skilled/certified workers will be needed and fewer unskilled.

When you compete with an over-supplied talent pool, then wages are not going to be as good as with talent that costs more to replace. There is a transaction cost for talent.
At my employer, a high school degree position is in general at fully productivity within 6 weeks (that is actually a semi-skilled position).
A bachelor degree position is generally at good productivity at 3 months and full productivity at 15 months.
A position requiring a higher degree or special certification often requires 6 to 9 months for good productivity and 2 years for fully productivity.

It is that skill curve that is always going to make it more desirable to have skills than be unskilled. The difference is automation will mean more skilled positions and fewer unskilled.

Bezos is brutal with easy to replace workers. I have a relative working automation who was the *exact* wrong person to put in charge of writing the differential equations to manage the people. I got into a heated argument on OSHA law had to be in the algorithms as a condition. The team actually thought that algorithm managed people could write their own rules. I'm like no... these breaks are required. Breaks start when they get to the break room, showed them prior legal rulings on bathroom throughput/access (how close to floor/break room they had to be meant laying out the floor different than the team wanted to meet law). It was only when I'm like you will lose a $5 billion lawsuit that they listened and I showed my relative some big cases he was emulating...

So it is better. But will it be unionized? That is so political I shall avoid predicting. But there is a reason the drivers are broken up to so many contractors. Amazon is always calculating how many USPS, how many their vans, how much on drivers and it is all by algorithms always trying to cut costs (there are risk factors put in, the level of complexity is amazing). The team jokes the algorithms will be self aware in 5 years...

Unfortunately, driving is no longer an uncommon skill. Although personally, the progress in autonomous driving the last 2 years hasn't impressed me. I thought it would be closer by now.

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MaverickM11
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:56 pm

Newark727 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Low wage workers do not get to make the rules, or get much in benefits........... Same Ol Story different day. McDonalds, Wal-mart, Amazon.. Not much difference.


Excuse me, they're not workers, they're "contractors." And if you have any ideas to the contrary I will purchase state ballot initiatives to legally ensure you're wrong ;)

Feel free to purchase your own healthcare if you can afford it.

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johns624
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Fri Jul 02, 2021 8:10 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
You don’t need to fight, just move on to a better offer of which there are plenty. Firing your employer, “take this job and shove it” is very satisfying. I did it 2 years prior to civil service retirement eligibility when I didn’t like the deal anymore. Too many people live their lives in chains, never know they have the keys.


Relatively easy for people in the skilled/certified worker category to do - not so much in the category these delivery drivers are in.

The problem with automation is more skilled/certified workers will be needed and fewer unskilled.

When you compete with an over-supplied talent pool, then wages are not going to be as good as with talent that costs more to replace. There is a transaction cost for talent.
At my employer, a high school degree position is in general at fully productivity within 6 weeks (that is actually a semi-skilled position).
A bachelor degree position is generally at good productivity at 3 months and full productivity at 15 months.
A position requiring a higher degree or special certification often requires 6 to 9 months for good productivity and 2 years for fully productivity.

It is that skill curve that is always going to make it more desirable to have skills than be unskilled. The difference is automation will mean more skilled positions and fewer unskilled.

Bezos is brutal with easy to replace workers. I have a relative working automation who was the *exact* wrong person to put in charge of writing the differential equations to manage the people. I got into a heated argument on OSHA law had to be in the algorithms as a condition. The team actually thought that algorithm managed people could write their own rules. I'm like no... these breaks are required. Breaks start when they get to the break room, showed them prior legal rulings on bathroom throughput/access (how close to floor/break room they had to be meant laying out the floor different than the team wanted to meet law). It was only when I'm like you will lose a $5 billion lawsuit that they listened and I showed my relative some big cases he was emulating...

So it is better. But will it be unionized? That is so political I shall avoid predicting. But there is a reason the drivers are broken up to so many contractors. Amazon is always calculating how many USPS, how many their vans, how much on drivers and it is all by algorithms always trying to cut costs (there are risk factors put in, the level of complexity is amazing). The team jokes the algorithms will be self aware in 5 years...

Unfortunately, driving is no longer an uncommon skill. Although personally, the progress in autonomous driving the last 2 years hasn't impressed me. I thought it would be closer by now.

Lightsaber
The package still has to get from the truck to the front door.
There's a reason that Fedex Ground had a much bigger meltdown the first few months of covid than UPS did. UPS is a career and their employees care. FDX is a "use them up and spit them out" organization. We had new drivers every couple of weeks and we had to go onto their trucks to find our packages.
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:44 pm

johns624 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Relatively easy for people in the skilled/certified worker category to do - not so much in the category these delivery drivers are in.

The problem with automation is more skilled/certified workers will be needed and fewer unskilled.

When you compete with an over-supplied talent pool, then wages are not going to be as good as with talent that costs more to replace. There is a transaction cost for talent.
At my employer, a high school degree position is in general at fully productivity within 6 weeks (that is actually a semi-skilled position).
A bachelor degree position is generally at good productivity at 3 months and full productivity at 15 months.
A position requiring a higher degree or special certification often requires 6 to 9 months for good productivity and 2 years for fully productivity.

It is that skill curve that is always going to make it more desirable to have skills than be unskilled. The difference is automation will mean more skilled positions and fewer unskilled.

Bezos is brutal with easy to replace workers. I have a relative working automation who was the *exact* wrong person to put in charge of writing the differential equations to manage the people. I got into a heated argument on OSHA law had to be in the algorithms as a condition. The team actually thought that algorithm managed people could write their own rules. I'm like no... these breaks are required. Breaks start when they get to the break room, showed them prior legal rulings on bathroom throughput/access (how close to floor/break room they had to be meant laying out the floor different than the team wanted to meet law). It was only when I'm like you will lose a $5 billion lawsuit that they listened and I showed my relative some big cases he was emulating...

So it is better. But will it be unionized? That is so political I shall avoid predicting. But there is a reason the drivers are broken up to so many contractors. Amazon is always calculating how many USPS, how many their vans, how much on drivers and it is all by algorithms always trying to cut costs (there are risk factors put in, the level of complexity is amazing). The team jokes the algorithms will be self aware in 5 years...

Unfortunately, driving is no longer an uncommon skill. Although personally, the progress in autonomous driving the last 2 years hasn't impressed me. I thought it would be closer by now.

Lightsaber
The package still has to get from the truck to the front door.
There's a reason that Fedex Ground had a much bigger meltdown the first few months of covid than UPS did. UPS is a career and their employees care. FDX is a "use them up and spit them out" organization. We had new drivers every couple of weeks and we had to go onto their trucks to find our packages.


The Amazon drivers in my area for the most part are rude and unprofessional while the UPS guys are the direct opposite.
 
johns624
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Fri Jul 02, 2021 10:47 pm

dfwjim1 wrote:

The Amazon drivers in my area for the most part are rude and unprofessional while the UPS guys are the direct opposite.
Exactly! Yet, UPS has no problem competing and even outdoing their competition, even with the significantly higher wages. There's something to be said for loyalty and experience.
 
afcjets
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:00 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Obviously we need a major pro-labor movement, but that will not be forthcoming. Reagan made sure unions of all kinds would never increase in popularity again.

Why? Jeff Bezos is very liberal. He's sorta rich too. Can't he afford to pay his employees more?
 
johns624
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:09 am

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Obviously we need a major pro-labor movement, but that will not be forthcoming. Reagan made sure unions of all kinds would never increase in popularity again.

Why? Jeff Bezos is very liberal. He's sorta rich too. Can't he afford to pay his employees more?
Yeah, but then he wouldn't be quite as filthy rich. It's not about the money, he doesn't need more. It's about the numbers and them being higher than anyone else's.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:36 am

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Obviously we need a major pro-labor movement, but that will not be forthcoming. Reagan made sure unions of all kinds would never increase in popularity again.

Why? Jeff Bezos is very liberal. He's sorta rich too. Can't he afford to pay his employees more?


Bezos’s political views are irrelevant to how he treats employees. He’s an uber capitalist and master of compartmentalization. It’s actually surprising to me that WaPo has covered these issues as much as they have.

As to whether he can afford to pay employees more - they clearly can. Are they going to? No. AMZN was trading at $1000/share at this time in 2018, it’s $3500 now.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:25 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Obviously we need a major pro-labor movement, but that will not be forthcoming. Reagan made sure unions of all kinds would never increase in popularity again.


CEO's pay has increased 100X, yet workers wages have remained flat for decades. The Govt. increases welfare to families with kids, but the frontline worker, especially one without kids, gets to live week to week. What a glorious system!!!

Question: you're a Trump sycophant--how on earth do you think he and the GOP would improve the situation? At least Amazon *pays* their workers. Trump just skips on the bill completely. Make it make sense.
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c933103
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:30 am

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Obviously we need a major pro-labor movement, but that will not be forthcoming. Reagan made sure unions of all kinds would never increase in popularity again.

Why? Jeff Bezos is very liberal. He's sorta rich too. Can't he afford to pay his employees more?


Bezos’s political views are irrelevant to how he treats employees. He’s an uber capitalist and master of compartmentalization. It’s actually surprising to me that WaPo has covered these issues as much as they have.

As to whether he can afford to pay employees more - they clearly can. Are they going to? No. AMZN was trading at $1000/share at this time in 2018, it’s $3500 now.

Other treatments aside, why should Amazon be singled out to be paying their employees, like drivers, more, when their employees are doing about the same tasks and getting about as much pay as they would from working at other companies? Should a truck driver be given different salary just because content of the truck they are driving is different and the one who hired them trucking are more or less successful in managing business?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:59 am

c933103 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Why? Jeff Bezos is very liberal. He's sorta rich too. Can't he afford to pay his employees more?


Bezos’s political views are irrelevant to how he treats employees. He’s an uber capitalist and master of compartmentalization. It’s actually surprising to me that WaPo has covered these issues as much as they have.

As to whether he can afford to pay employees more - they clearly can. Are they going to? No. AMZN was trading at $1000/share at this time in 2018, it’s $3500 now.

Other treatments aside, why should Amazon be singled out to be paying their employees, like drivers, more, when their employees are doing about the same tasks and getting about as much pay as they would from working at other companies? Should a truck driver be given different salary just because content of the truck they are driving is different and the one who hired them trucking are more or less successful in managing business?


Compensation is a differentiator, even within industries. Strong compensation packages at all levels can be a sign of both corporate health and values. It's not always about being on parity with what the rest of the industry gets. Let's flip this argument around: Google pays secretaries $70-$90K and titles them 'Administrative Business Partners'. Should they start treating them like secretaries everywhere else and pay $45K just because that's 'the norm'?
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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c933103
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:05 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Compensation is a differentiator, even within industries. Strong compensation packages at all levels can be a sign of both corporate health and values. It's not always about being on parity with what the rest of the industry gets.

Are you sure what you describe fit jobs like truck drivers, who are working at what's essentially an online supermarket?
Compensation can act as a differentiator but why would Amazon want such differentiator? From what I heard there are now truck driver shortage and such it might be worthwhile for Amazon to increase their packages to attract more truck drivers driving for them, but since it haven't happened to them, it most likely mean the situation haven't gotten to that point yet?
Corporate Health and Value of Amazon in term of delivering goods is as clear as it is, to function as an effective internationalized marketplace. Increasing cost to elements in-between would not be in line with what they are
Let's flip this argument around: Google pays secretaries $70-$90K and titles them 'Administrative Business Partners'. Should they start treating them like secretaries everywhere else and pay $45K just because that's 'the norm'?

Do you think driver is a type of job that you can get more values out of each employee by compensating them better?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate 求同存異 よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
Fitting foreign event into local context for lessons will only be able to tell local values instead of foreign ones
You're now at your youngest moment in your remaining life
 
afcjets
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:10 am

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Obviously we need a major pro-labor movement, but that will not be forthcoming. Reagan made sure unions of all kinds would never increase in popularity again.

Why? Jeff Bezos is very liberal. He's sorta rich too. Can't he afford to pay his employees more?

Bezos’s political views are irrelevant to how he treats employees. He’s an uber capitalist and master of compartmentalization.

Clearly, he's a hypocrite of the worst kind. The Magic Pillow people seem to be treated well, except for his commercial actors/actresses. If you're going to be on tv more than Ryan Seacrest and the KKK (Kim, Khloe, Kourtney), you should make at least 7 figures, IMO.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:36 am

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Why? Jeff Bezos is very liberal. He's sorta rich too. Can't he afford to pay his employees more?

Bezos’s political views are irrelevant to how he treats employees. He’s an uber capitalist and master of compartmentalization.

Clearly, he's a hypocrite of the worst kind. The Magic Pillow people seem to be treated well, except for his commercial actors/actresses. If you're going to be on tv more than Ryan Seacrest and the KKK (Kim, Khloe, Kourtney), you should make at least 7 figures, IMO.


He is not really a hypocrite if you know anything about him beyond headlines. His liberal causes are climate change, homeless shelters, and preschools, not stiffer corporate governance regulation or higher taxes on wealth. And you would not want him for a boss - he is ruthless and calculating. The Gavin Belson character in 'Silicon Valley' was largely based on Bezos.
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Aaron747
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Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:43 am

c933103 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Compensation is a differentiator, even within industries. Strong compensation packages at all levels can be a sign of both corporate health and values. It's not always about being on parity with what the rest of the industry gets.

Are you sure what you describe fit jobs like truck drivers, who are working at what's essentially an online supermarket?
Compensation can act as a differentiator but why would Amazon want such differentiator? From what I heard there are now truck driver shortage and such it might be worthwhile for Amazon to increase their packages to attract more truck drivers driving for them, but since it haven't happened to them, it most likely mean the situation haven't gotten to that point yet?
Corporate Health and Value of Amazon in term of delivering goods is as clear as it is, to function as an effective internationalized marketplace. Increasing cost to elements in-between would not be in line with what they are
Let's flip this argument around: Google pays secretaries $70-$90K and titles them 'Administrative Business Partners'. Should they start treating them like secretaries everywhere else and pay $45K just because that's 'the norm'?

Do you think driver is a type of job that you can get more values out of each employee by compensating them better?


Regarding shortages, you are correct that is probably the only thing that would move the compensation needle for Amazon. But without getting into too many details friends of mine probably shouldn't be sharing, their high turnover comes from a variety of sources, not only compensation or work conditions. Let's just say middle management not really understanding their roles is a problem at many organizations that are large or otherwise grow quickly.

As for whether you can get more value out of each employee, absolutely. Americans tend to value compensation above other job-related perks, especially the lower you go on the skill and income ladder. There are a lot of things that can go wrong in a tightly-run delivery business - and most of the negative things that will directly impact customers will be related to the warehouse and delivery operation itself. The attitude of employees running those operations has a huge potential impact on customer experience. Amazon is not very forgiving of mistakes, and that's another reason their driver turnover runs high. I would venture they would have fewer operational errors if drivers were more motivated.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
afcjets
Posts: 3832
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:21 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Clearly, he's a hypocrite of the worst kind. The Magic Pillow people seem to be treated well, except for his commercial actors/actresses. If you're going to be on tv more than Ryan Seacrest and the KKK (Kim, Khloe, Kourtney), you should make at least 7 figures, IMO.

MyPillow has an F rating from the BBB, but we all know there is no MAGA low life you won't defend
https://www.bbb.org/us/mn/chaska/profil ... 4-96152336


So did Disneyland and the Ritz Carlton. More importantly the BBB is for consumers, not employees.

"Both the L.A. Times and the 20/20 stories led with the mysteriously poor grades the BBB gave restaurants owned by chef-to-the-stars (and BBB nonmember) Wolfgang Puck—a B-minus for his flagship Spago in Beverly Hills, according to the L.A. Times, and an F for some of his other restaurants, according to 20/20. On 20/20,Rossfurther reported that two other nonmember businesses—the Ritz-Carlton in Boston and Disneyland in Anaheim, Calif., (which, Ross duly noted, is owned by ABC’s corporate parent)—had both received an F.
Puck told 20/20’s Ross that the BBB was punishing him for not joining. “If you become a member,” Puck said, “[they think] you should get an A. But if you don’t pay, it’s very difficult to get an A.” It was an outrageous accusation, but Ross and the L.A. Times’ Lazarus found evidence to support it....

Connecticut Attorney General and U.S. Senator-elect Richard Blumenthal wrote the Council of Better Business Bureaus to complain that “BBB’s rating system is based, in part, on the payment of inadequately disclosed accreditation fees.” He urged the BBB to “de-couple its ratings entirely from the paying of dues.” Blumenthal had been angered to discover that a business called Custom Basements of Connecticut, which won an award from the Connecticut BBB at a ceremony where he was guest speaker, went bankrupt shortly thereafter, taking with it tens of thousands of dollars allegedly collected for work never done and occasioning a lawsuit from, yes, Blumenthal’s own office.

The Council of Better Business Bureaus cried uncle one week after receiving Blumenthal’s letter (which was also one week after the 20/20 report). It agreed to end its practice of giving additional rating points merely for being a member and promised to engage a third party in a review process. Letting bygones be bygones, it replaced the Boston Ritz-Carlton’s F grade with a (previously unachievable) A-plus and Spago’s B-minus with an A-minus. (The Southern California BBB had already changed Disneyland’s F to an A after bloggers complained; that, too, is now an A-plus.) Even so, Blumenthal stated in a press release that he still found BBB ratings “unreliable and suspect.”"

https://slate.com/business/2010/12/is-t ... acket.html.



Aaron747 wrote:
And you would not want him for a boss - he is ruthless and calculating. The Gavin Belson character in 'Silicon Valley' was largely based on Bezos.


:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

I sure wouldn't, but I use them several times per week and would give them an A+ rating as a consumer. Everytime I call them, they answer promptly and they basically say yes to everything and often send me gift cards if they make a mistake or an item arrives late. And if I need to return an item that isn't too expensive, everytime I ask if I can donate it instead (which is easier because Salvation Army and Goodwill have drive up) they have always said yes and process a full refund.
 
johns624
Posts: 3958
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:37 pm

c933103 wrote:
Do you think driver is a type of job that you can get more values out of each employee by compensating them better?

First, you're confusing delivery drivers with OTR semi drivers. The shortage is of OTR drivers. Yes,increased compensation would make a huge difference. If you're going to be away from home for 2-3 weeks at a time, you should be compensated for it. Drivers are paid by the mile, so when they are sitting for 3 hours waiting to be unloaded, they aren't being paid, even though they're "working". Drivers are only allowed to be "on duty" for 70 hours in any 8 day period. So, not only aren't they being paid for those hours, but they can't make it up.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15620
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Amazon DSP Drivers reveal the Truth about delivering for Amazon

Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:42 pm

johns624 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Do you think driver is a type of job that you can get more values out of each employee by compensating them better?

First, you're confusing delivery drivers with OTR semi drivers. The shortage is of OTR drivers. Yes,increased compensation would make a huge difference. If you're going to be away from home for 2-3 weeks at a time, you should be compensated for it. Drivers are paid by the mile, so when they are sitting for 3 hours waiting to be unloaded, they aren't being paid, even though they're "working". Drivers are only allowed to be "on duty" for 70 hours in any 8 day period. So, not only aren't they being paid for those hours, but they can't make it up.


In c93's defense, in his country they don't really have long distance transport to service delivery.
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