Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Virtual737
Topic Author
Posts: 1207
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:48 am

https://news.sky.com/story/i-dont-think-were-too-far-away-from-justice-harry-dunns-parents-optimistic-about-us-civil-case-12347582

2 years after this thread https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1433225&p=21730543&hilit=harry+dunn#p21730543 the Dunn family have given evidence in a US civil case against Anne Sacoolas who allegedly (actually I believe she admitted it) driving on the wrong side of the road into a legally ridden motorcycle killing 19 year old Harry.

Anne allegedly did not stop at the scene (at least did not stop until authorities arrived) and left the country soon after, having claimed diplomatic immunity. Extradition requests have been refused by the US State Department with Sacoolas having been quoted as saying she might receive a draconian sentence in the UK, which is rather ridiculous when you compare the two countries use of the the death penalty and the % of population incarcerated.

I have little doubt this was an accident. I have no doubt that the UK family have been put through hell. Do you think the Dunn family might now receive something resembling justice and finally have some closure?
 
GDB
Posts: 14316
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Sat Jul 03, 2021 7:17 am

After the expected contempt from the previous US Admin, though cross admin institutions do the same, the same from that thick UK Foreign Secretary Raab, this is their last hope.
Misuse of diplomatic immunity, sort of thing you are meant to associate with rogue states.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14602
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:36 am

Have a criminal trial in the US in front of a jury of her peers and let's see if she still thinks UK justice is draconian.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 20071
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Sat Jul 03, 2021 10:01 am

I'm afraid I have a very low opinion of Anne Sacoolas.

She claims to be worried about a "draconian sentence" if she returned to the UK. But apparently she had no issue with a death sentence for Harry Dunn, nor a life sentence for his poor parents.

Her cowardly act of running away (aided and abetted by the US Government) shows a complete lack of moral fibre and is beyond contempt. I do wonder how she sleeps at night.

Aesma wrote:
Have a criminal trial in the US in front of a jury of her peers and let's see if she still thinks UK justice is draconian.


I'm not sure how that would even begin to work.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15773
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:05 am

To me there is a need for significant revisions of agreements as to diplomatic immunity to prevent abuses and unfairness like with this case in all countries. Current polices cost lives, costs city and state governments millions a year in unpaid or unenforceable traffic and parking tickets, prevents reasonable justice for victims. Current USA policy for diplomats operating vehicles requires special US issued registration and liability insurance.

About the only way out is for President Biden to revoke Sacoolas's immunity but it is too late and for sure former President Trump never even considered it for his political reasons. I recall a situation over 20 years ago when a diplomat with the then recently new Country of Georgia while DWI hit and killed a young women in a multi-car crash in DC. The President of Georgia revoked the diplomat's immunity, he faced criminal judicial procedures and got a significant jail sentence.

Beyond motor vehicle violations, there is the ability to get away with serious financial, drug, sexual assault, theft of military and other intellectual property, even terrorism charges from the current agreements. Yes, there are sound reciprocal reasons for such agreements to prevent abuses, harassment, false charges to in turn to protect our diplomats in another country, but clearly a new balance is needed.
 
Virtual737
Topic Author
Posts: 1207
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Sat Jul 03, 2021 11:52 am

Thanks for your comments. Apparently there was a "Jerry Springer" like moment when the Dunn family was invited to the White House to meet DJT and then almost instantly told that "the killer of your son is in the room next door, do you want to meet her?". I can't begin to understand how that must have made them feel, nor can I begin to understand who might have thought that it was a good idea to setup.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15585
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:10 pm

GDB wrote:
After the expected contempt from the previous US Admin, though cross admin institutions do the same, the same from that thick UK Foreign Secretary Raab, this is their last hope.
Misuse of diplomatic immunity, sort of thing you are meant to associate with rogue states.


You don't even need diplomatic immunity. If you are a Saudi citizen charged with a felony in the US, the embassy will whisk you back home to safety before trial. And the US State Dept won't do a damn thing about it. Cases like this one with the Dunns are absolute garbage because the US doesn't actually have consistent standards at all.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8055
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:36 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
GDB wrote:
After the expected contempt from the previous US Admin, though cross admin institutions do the same, the same from that thick UK Foreign Secretary Raab, this is their last hope.
Misuse of diplomatic immunity, sort of thing you are meant to associate with rogue states.


You don't even need diplomatic immunity. If you are a Saudi citizen charged with a felony in the US, the embassy will whisk you back home to safety before trial. And the US State Dept won't do a damn thing about it. Cases like this one with the Dunns are absolute garbage because the US doesn't actually have consistent standards at all.


There’s at least one case where an American charged with murder in Saudi was whisked away to the US with the approval of the Saudis—didn’t want the publicity of Chop-Chop Square for an American.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15585
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Sat Jul 03, 2021 3:50 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
GDB wrote:
After the expected contempt from the previous US Admin, though cross admin institutions do the same, the same from that thick UK Foreign Secretary Raab, this is their last hope.
Misuse of diplomatic immunity, sort of thing you are meant to associate with rogue states.


You don't even need diplomatic immunity. If you are a Saudi citizen charged with a felony in the US, the embassy will whisk you back home to safety before trial. And the US State Dept won't do a damn thing about it. Cases like this one with the Dunns are absolute garbage because the US doesn't actually have consistent standards at all.


There’s at least one case where an American charged with murder in Saudi was whisked away to the US with the approval of the Saudis—didn’t want the publicity of Chop-Chop Square for an American.


Sounds like a one-off. And that doesn’t do anything for the American victims of murder, vehicular manslaughter, rape and the like who cannot seek justice.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... utType=amp
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
GalaxyFlyer
Posts: 8055
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:24 pm

If not a one-off, very rare. The problem in WaPo article is the lack of an extradition treaty and a long history of the US not pressing the Saudis on the issue, not diplomatic immunity. And, I don’t doubt the USG turns a blind eye on some of “fixers” assisting the Saudis fleeing justice. Some, once home, face bad outcomes, too.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14602
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:01 am

scbriml wrote:
I'm afraid I have a very low opinion of Anne Sacoolas.

She claims to be worried about a "draconian sentence" if she returned to the UK. But apparently she had no issue with a death sentence for Harry Dunn, nor a life sentence for his poor parents.

Her cowardly act of running away (aided and abetted by the US Government) shows a complete lack of moral fibre and is beyond contempt. I do wonder how she sleeps at night.

Aesma wrote:
Have a criminal trial in the US in front of a jury of her peers and let's see if she still thinks UK justice is draconian.


I'm not sure how that would even begin to work.


It can be part of judicial agreements between countries. But I don't know if the US has those.

For example a similar case happened in Israel, with 2 French citizens (one also Israeli) who killed a woman (Lee Zeitouni) in Tel Aviv by hitting her with their car after having ran a red light. The trial happened in France and they got jail time.

France doesn't extradite its citizens except to EU countries. The US however has an extradition treaty with the UK so the only reason this isn't happening is that the US is providing diplomatic protection.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Bostrom
Posts: 1114
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:24 am

Aesma wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Aesma wrote:
Have a criminal trial in the US in front of a jury of her peers and let's see if she still thinks UK justice is draconian.


I'm not sure how that would even begin to work.


It can be part of judicial agreements between countries. But I don't know if the US has those.


And in some countries it is possible to prosecute people for things that happened in other countries. Not sure how the US laws works in this case though.
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13558
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Sun Jul 04, 2021 6:22 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
GDB wrote:
After the expected contempt from the previous US Admin, though cross admin institutions do the same, the same from that thick UK Foreign Secretary Raab, this is their last hope.
Misuse of diplomatic immunity, sort of thing you are meant to associate with rogue states.


You don't even need diplomatic immunity. If you are a Saudi citizen charged with a felony in the US, the embassy will whisk you back home to safety before trial. And the US State Dept won't do a damn thing about it. Cases like this one with the Dunns are absolute garbage because the US doesn't actually have consistent standards at all.


The US has been whisking there diplomats and service people away from local justice since WW2. They’re not about to stop now.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15585
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Mon Jul 05, 2021 12:38 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
GDB wrote:
After the expected contempt from the previous US Admin, though cross admin institutions do the same, the same from that thick UK Foreign Secretary Raab, this is their last hope.
Misuse of diplomatic immunity, sort of thing you are meant to associate with rogue states.


You don't even need diplomatic immunity. If you are a Saudi citizen charged with a felony in the US, the embassy will whisk you back home to safety before trial. And the US State Dept won't do a damn thing about it. Cases like this one with the Dunns are absolute garbage because the US doesn't actually have consistent standards at all.


The US has been whisking there diplomats and service people away from local justice since WW2. They’re not about to stop now.


Sure, but those are government employees. The US doesn’t rescue its civilian citizens charged with crimes from other countries.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13558
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Mon Jul 05, 2021 7:31 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

You don't even need diplomatic immunity. If you are a Saudi citizen charged with a felony in the US, the embassy will whisk you back home to safety before trial. And the US State Dept won't do a damn thing about it. Cases like this one with the Dunns are absolute garbage because the US doesn't actually have consistent standards at all.


The US has been whisking there diplomats and service people away from local justice since WW2. They’re not about to stop now.


Sure, but those are government employees. The US doesn’t rescue its civilian citizens charged with crimes from other countries.


This woman has diplomatic immunity, she's not a civilian citizen.
 
GDB
Posts: 14316
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Mon Jul 05, 2021 8:11 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

The US has been whisking there diplomats and service people away from local justice since WW2. They’re not about to stop now.


Sure, but those are government employees. The US doesn’t rescue its civilian citizens charged with crimes from other countries.


This woman has diplomatic immunity, she's not a civilian citizen.


Did she though? Her husband maybe. But he wasn't the one who caused death by dangerous driving.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15585
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Mon Jul 05, 2021 9:24 am

GDB wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Sure, but those are government employees. The US doesn’t rescue its civilian citizens charged with crimes from other countries.


This woman has diplomatic immunity, she's not a civilian citizen.


Did she though? Her husband maybe. But he wasn't the one who caused death by dangerous driving.


Diplomatic immunity often extends to family members part of a diplomat's immediate household.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
GDB
Posts: 14316
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:17 am

Aaron747 wrote:
GDB wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

This woman has diplomatic immunity, she's not a civilian citizen.


Did she though? Her husband maybe. But he wasn't the one who caused death by dangerous driving.


Diplomatic immunity often extends to family members part of a diplomat's immediate household.


Hence my question if even the husband had it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Dunn

From that source, the advisors quoted are well known experts in this area;
The collision became the subject of a diplomatic dispute when Sacoolas left the country shortly after the incident and the US embassy said she had diplomatic immunity as the wife of a US agent working in the UK.[8][16][14][29] The Washington Examiner reported that Jonathan Sacoolas did not work for the National Security Agency, and that the Sacoolas family lived in Northern Virginia in the area of the Central Intelligence Agency Langley headquarters.[30]

Dunn's parents were advised by two leading specialist lawyers on diplomatic immunity, Mark Stephens and Geoffrey Robertson. They advised that Anne Sacoolas was not entitled to diplomatic immunity, as her husband was not listed as a diplomat. Furthermore, they contended, diplomatic immunity no longer applied upon Sacoolas's return to her home country; therefore, it would be possible to take civil action in the US courts. The Foreign Secretary, Dominic Raab, also stated that diplomatic immunity no longer applied.[31][32] Dunn's parents, in order to get justice for their son, decided to travel to the US to "fight for change" and seek the return of Sacoolas to the UK.[33]

A photograph, taken at a 10 October press conference, showed President Donald Trump's briefing notes. If asked, the US line on the notes indicated that Anne Sacoolas would not return to the UK, despite the previous intervention of Raab and the Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, including a call to the president.[34] In response, Dunn's mother said that the position of the US was, "beyond any realm of human thinking", adding "I'm just disgusted. I don't see the point in Boris Johnson talking to President Trump, or President Trump even taking a call from Boris Johnson. If he'd already made his decision that if it were to be asked and if it were to be raised, the answer was already going to be no."[34]
 
User avatar
Kiwirob
Posts: 13558
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:32 am

GDB wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
GDB wrote:

Did she though? Her husband maybe. But he wasn't the one who caused death by dangerous driving.


Diplomatic immunity often extends to family members part of a diplomat's immediate household.


Hence my question if even the husband had it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Dunn

From that source, the advisors quoted are well known experts in this area;
The collision became the subject of a diplomatic dispute when Sacoolas left the country shortly after the incident and the US embassy said she had diplomatic immunity as the wife of a US agent working in the UK.[8][16][14][29] The Washington Examiner reported that Jonathan Sacoolas did not work for the National Security Agency, and that the Sacoolas family lived in Northern Virginia in the area of the Central Intelligence Agency Langley headquarters.[30]

Dunn's parents were advised by two leading specialist lawyers on diplomatic immunity, Mark Stephens and Geoffrey Robertson. They advised that Anne Sacoolas was not entitled to diplomatic immunity, as her husband was not listed as a diplomat. Furthermore, they contended, diplomatic immunity no longer applied upon Sacoolas's return to her home country; therefore, it would be possible to take civil action in the US courts. The Foreign Secretary, Dominic Raab, also stated that diplomatic immunity no longer applied.[31][32] Dunn's parents, in order to get justice for their son, decided to travel to the US to "fight for change" and seek the return of Sacoolas to the UK.[33]

A photograph, taken at a 10 October press conference, showed President Donald Trump's briefing notes. If asked, the US line on the notes indicated that Anne Sacoolas would not return to the UK, despite the previous intervention of Raab and the Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, including a call to the president.[34] In response, Dunn's mother said that the position of the US was, "beyond any realm of human thinking", adding "I'm just disgusted. I don't see the point in Boris Johnson talking to President Trump, or President Trump even taking a call from Boris Johnson. If he'd already made his decision that if it were to be asked and if it were to be raised, the answer was already going to be no."[34]


I'm sure there must be something more to these people than meets the eye, she can't just be a typical house wife and if he doesn't work for the NSA as reported and they live in Langley then 2 + 2 = CIA. One things for sure she's not being sent back to the UK to face justice for her crime.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15585
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Mon Jul 05, 2021 10:48 am

Kiwirob wrote:
GDB wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Diplomatic immunity often extends to family members part of a diplomat's immediate household.


Hence my question if even the husband had it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Dunn

From that source, the advisors quoted are well known experts in this area;
The collision became the subject of a diplomatic dispute when Sacoolas left the country shortly after the incident and the US embassy said she had diplomatic immunity as the wife of a US agent working in the UK.[8][16][14][29] The Washington Examiner reported that Jonathan Sacoolas did not work for the National Security Agency, and that the Sacoolas family lived in Northern Virginia in the area of the Central Intelligence Agency Langley headquarters.[30]

Dunn's parents were advised by two leading specialist lawyers on diplomatic immunity, Mark Stephens and Geoffrey Robertson. They advised that Anne Sacoolas was not entitled to diplomatic immunity, as her husband was not listed as a diplomat. Furthermore, they contended, diplomatic immunity no longer applied upon Sacoolas's return to her home country; therefore, it would be possible to take civil action in the US courts. The Foreign Secretary, Dominic Raab, also stated that diplomatic immunity no longer applied.[31][32] Dunn's parents, in order to get justice for their son, decided to travel to the US to "fight for change" and seek the return of Sacoolas to the UK.[33]

A photograph, taken at a 10 October press conference, showed President Donald Trump's briefing notes. If asked, the US line on the notes indicated that Anne Sacoolas would not return to the UK, despite the previous intervention of Raab and the Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, including a call to the president.[34] In response, Dunn's mother said that the position of the US was, "beyond any realm of human thinking", adding "I'm just disgusted. I don't see the point in Boris Johnson talking to President Trump, or President Trump even taking a call from Boris Johnson. If he'd already made his decision that if it were to be asked and if it were to be raised, the answer was already going to be no."[34]


I'm sure there must be something more to these people than meets the eye, she can't just be a typical house wife and if he doesn't work for the NSA as reported and they live in Langley then 2 + 2 = CIA. One things for sure she's not being sent back to the UK to face justice for her crime.


Exactamente. That's why this is all going nowhere.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
johns624
Posts: 3934
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Mon Jul 05, 2021 2:23 pm

I'm reminded of the one Tom Clancy book, Cardinal of the Kremlin. Everyone thinks the husband is the spy and his spouse just a dingy housewife. In fact, she was the spy.
 
GDB
Posts: 14316
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:21 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
GDB wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Diplomatic immunity often extends to family members part of a diplomat's immediate household.


Hence my question if even the husband had it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Dunn

From that source, the advisors quoted are well known experts in this area;
The collision became the subject of a diplomatic dispute when Sacoolas left the country shortly after the incident and the US embassy said she had diplomatic immunity as the wife of a US agent working in the UK.[8][16][14][29] The Washington Examiner reported that Jonathan Sacoolas did not work for the National Security Agency, and that the Sacoolas family lived in Northern Virginia in the area of the Central Intelligence Agency Langley headquarters.[30]

Dunn's parents were advised by two leading specialist lawyers on diplomatic immunity, Mark Stephens and Geoffrey Robertson. They advised that Anne Sacoolas was not entitled to diplomatic immunity, as her husband was not listed as a diplomat. Furthermore, they contended, diplomatic immunity no longer applied upon Sacoolas's return to her home country; therefore, it would be possible to take civil action in the US courts. The Foreign Secretary, Dominic Raab, also stated that diplomatic immunity no longer applied.[31][32] Dunn's parents, in order to get justice for their son, decided to travel to the US to "fight for change" and seek the return of Sacoolas to the UK.[33]

A photograph, taken at a 10 October press conference, showed President Donald Trump's briefing notes. If asked, the US line on the notes indicated that Anne Sacoolas would not return to the UK, despite the previous intervention of Raab and the Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, including a call to the president.[34] In response, Dunn's mother said that the position of the US was, "beyond any realm of human thinking", adding "I'm just disgusted. I don't see the point in Boris Johnson talking to President Trump, or President Trump even taking a call from Boris Johnson. If he'd already made his decision that if it were to be asked and if it were to be raised, the answer was already going to be no."[34]


I'm sure there must be something more to these people than meets the eye, she can't just be a typical house wife and if he doesn't work for the NSA as reported and they live in Langley then 2 + 2 = CIA. One things for sure she's not being sent back to the UK to face justice for her crime.


He might be CIA, does not mean she is, in any case if they are not listed as diplomats it does not matter what their job description is.
You cannot just claim diplomatic status, you have to prove it.
That she was hustled out with indecent haste illustrates a desire to cover for a crime, after all Harry was merely a foreign (or 'alien' as they charmingly put it) civilian.
If she had actual diplomatic cover they would not have needed to sneak her away.

Sad that the parents had to go to Johnson and Raab, dumb and dumber.
Not much better than expecting anything from Trump.
You have to wonder what the response would be if the situation was reversed, US State Dept types demanding all sorts of retribution and threats no doubt.
Yet this is the country that let all those Saudis out as the rubble of the Twin Towers burned. Where 15 of the 19 perps came from.
(Not a conspiracy just the institutional cover up of a massive intel failure).

The murky nature of this case is outlined here;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56246511

As mentioned above diplomatic immunity is meant to protect government employees from the actions of a hostile foreign government . Not civil crimes.
She was hardly in Russia or China was she?
Even some of her intel peers, if she IS in that field and not just the wife of one and former neighbors think it is wrong.

The officials may have good reasons for their decision. One possible concern is that the US wanted to protect operations - a trial could expose details of intelligence work.

Yet the waiver can still seem wrong to people.

"There's an understanding at one level," says Eatinger, formerly of the CIA. "But at the other level, the human level, this just seems unfair."

A former CIA officer, Ilana Sara Greenstein, says the decision to grant diplomatic immunity reflects a certain mindset within the industry.

"There's a little bit of the God complex," she explains, describing the culture of the agency. "People walked around thinking: 'We can do what we want.'"

In her view, diplomatic immunity for Sacoolas reinforces this belief.

'She has to accept responsibility'

Today, Sacoolas's Virginian home is rented out, and she is living elsewhere while the civil case makes its way through the court.

One breezy afternoon last week, Jerry Haskins, 70, was next door to her old house. The road smelled like pine, and whitetail deer roamed through back lots. He looked down a long driveway, pointing to a spot where he first met her.

"She was friendly enough," he says. "She walked up and introduced herself. I told her: 'Nice to meet you.'"

Today, he shakes his head.

"She has to accept responsibility," he says. "Why didn't she stand trial?"

Another neighbour, an IT expert who was striding past her house during his regular, mile-and-a-half walk, says she should have faced the consequences, rather than head home. "You own it up," he says, then continued on his way.


There is no reason that any of her work, if she is involved in sensitive operations, would be revealed in a British court, any case would focus on the charge of death by dangerous driving, not what she might or might not have been doing here. All that matters is her conduct on the road.

We have court cases all the time that shield sensitive intelligence information if it is not relevant to the case.
 
Virtual737
Topic Author
Posts: 1207
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: Dunn family hopeful of some level of justice for the death of Harry

Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:58 pm

GDB wrote:
The murky nature of this case is outlined here;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56246511


From that article: "Sacoolas' lawyer said she has taken responsibility for the collision"

How thoroughly disgusting. She has done the total opposite of taking responsibility.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aaron747, LMP737, ltbewr, petertenthije, scbriml and 44 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos