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RightRudder
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Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:00 pm

There has been wide spread protests throughout Cuba in the last 24 hours. Cuba's president, Miguel Diaz-Canel has not made any official statement Miguel Diaz-Canel

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/ ... ce=twitter

Live Stream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaCO4lqHfXw
 
Okie
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:29 pm

I am amazed that people being upset in Utopia. Amazed I tell you.


Okie
 
RightRudder
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:32 pm

Okie wrote:
I am amazed that people who be upset in Utopia. Amazed I tell you.


Okie



Difficult with no facial expressions to know on a site whether a person is serious or joking.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:22 pm

There are calls for the US to intervene. I guess Americans never learn ? And the situation is already partly caused by the US and its embargo, adding insult to injury.
 
T4thH
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:46 pm

I have some problems with the title: "Wide spread protests in Cuba"

Sorry, till now, there are only few thousands in total in whole Cuba. To use the title "Wide spread protests in Cuba"...is till now just...perhaps the term "form of propaganda" fits best. If perhaps in few days, 100.000 or even more in whole Cuba are on the streets in total in several cities, than the title will be correct. But now, it is not.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:46 pm

Aesma wrote:
There are calls for the US to intervene. I guess Americans never learn ? And the situation is already partly caused by the US and its embargo, adding insult to injury.


No. The situation is not caused by the US. It is the political system that is simply not feasible. Period.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:57 pm

If the US treated Cuba like say, Saudi Arabia, Cuban authorities wouldn't have such a big bully to blame for their issues.
 
Okie
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:35 pm

https://www.dailywire.com/news/communis ... ervice-cut

Protesters seem to be disappearing somehow.

Others; a blow to the spleen from the butt of an AK47, don't worry though, they have free healthcare.

Aesma wrote:
If the US treated Cuba like say, Saudi Arabia, Cuban authorities wouldn't have such a big bully to blame for their issues.


I don't recall Saudi nationals visiting the US being called escapees.

Okie
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:43 pm

Aesma wrote:
If the US treated Cuba like say, Saudi Arabia, Cuban authorities wouldn't have such a big bully to blame for their issues.


That's true. But the embargo is still just an excuse. There are many countries willing to do business with Cuba, including our home countries. But to do business, one has to have something to offer. And here's the problem. There isn't too much Cuba can sell internationally. Also, I don't understand the lack of food. How's possible that the Dominican Republic that has roughly the same population on half of the area can have working agriculture and Cuba really doesn't?

No, the communist regime is just unsustainable. After all, I experienced it myself in my old country.
Last edited by WildcatYXU on Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:44 pm

Okie wrote:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/communist-cuba-begins-cracking-down-on-freedom-protesters-internet-and-cell-service-cut

Protesters seem to be disappearing somehow.

Others; a blow to the spleen from the butt of an AK47, don't worry though, they have free healthcare.

Aesma wrote:
If the US treated Cuba like say, Saudi Arabia, Cuban authorities wouldn't have such a big bully to blame for their issues.


I don't recall Saudi nationals visiting the US being called escapees.

Okie


Healthcare has little to do with this issue. Cuba has a government that controls the means of production, and they can't produce. Especially since so much of their success over the decades has been tourism. Covid caused a hell of a kink in that money source.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:26 pm

Aesma wrote:
There are calls for the US to intervene. I guess Americans never learn ? And the situation is already partly caused by the US and its embargo, adding insult to injury.


The US will not intervene. Sooner or later the people will rise up. I am hoping this could mean the end to oppression in that country.
 
maverick4002
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:31 pm

What are the protests about? I saw something about people having internet access and finding out Cuba isnt doing well on Covid front or something? And then I saw Cuba made 5 vaccines and they cant distribute to their peoples because of the US embargo which is limiting access to syringes and medical equipment...
 
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par13del
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:03 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
What are the protests about? I saw something about people having internet access and finding out Cuba isnt doing well on Covid front or something? And then I saw Cuba made 5 vaccines and they cant distribute to their peoples because of the US embargo which is limiting access to syringes and medical equipment...

...so what happened to the Canadians and the EU who regard the embargo as not needed and openly trade with Cuba, as they always say, the US is not the world.
Cuba has medical personnel that they can use to trade if hard funds are not available to purchase medical supplies.

As for the embargo, the US has somehow found a way to tolerate the communist regime in Vietnam where they lost thousands of brave soldiers, but a communist nation so close to home appears to present an intractable situation the cannot be handled diplomatically. Do we really believe the people of Cuba are suffering more than those in Vietnam or China, even Russia?
 
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seb146
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:15 pm

par13del wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:
What are the protests about? I saw something about people having internet access and finding out Cuba isnt doing well on Covid front or something? And then I saw Cuba made 5 vaccines and they cant distribute to their peoples because of the US embargo which is limiting access to syringes and medical equipment...

...so what happened to the Canadians and the EU who regard the embargo as not needed and openly trade with Cuba, as they always say, the US is not the world.
Cuba has medical personnel that they can use to trade if hard funds are not available to purchase medical supplies.

As for the embargo, the US has somehow found a way to tolerate the communist regime in Vietnam where they lost thousands of brave soldiers, but a communist nation so close to home appears to present an intractable situation the cannot be handled diplomatically. Do we really believe the people of Cuba are suffering more than those in Vietnam or China, even Russia?


China and Vietnam have factories that make cheap crap they can market to Americans and the world. What does Cuba have? Beaches and old cars. When the MAGAs decided we can't trade with Cuba and covid happened, that was when things started to go bad for them.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:30 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
Aesma wrote:
There are calls for the US to intervene. I guess Americans never learn ? And the situation is already partly caused by the US and its embargo, adding insult to injury.


No. The situation is not caused by the US. It is the political system that is simply not feasible. Period.


So decades of unjust embargo isn't part of the problem?
 
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Mortyman
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:38 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
Aesma wrote:
If the US treated Cuba like say, Saudi Arabia, Cuban authorities wouldn't have such a big bully to blame for their issues.


That's true. But the embargo is still just an excuse. There are many countries willing to do business with Cuba, including our home countries. But to do business, one has to have something to offer. And here's the problem. There isn't too much Cuba can sell internationally. Also, I don't understand the lack of food. How's possible that the Dominican Republic that has roughly the same population on half of the area can have working agriculture and Cuba really doesn't?

No, the communist regime is just unsustainable. After all, I experienced it myself in my old country.



travel industry
 
Okie
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:54 pm

maverick4002 wrote:
What are the protests about? I saw something about people having internet access and finding out Cuba isnt doing well on Covid front or something? And then I saw Cuba made 5 vaccines and they cant distribute to their peoples because of the US embargo which is limiting access to syringes and medical equipment...


Source there mav, last I checked Cuba is in the same boat as the US on medical supplies. China produces more than 80% of the worlds needles and syringes.

Okie
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:38 pm

Mortyman wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
Aesma wrote:
If the US treated Cuba like say, Saudi Arabia, Cuban authorities wouldn't have such a big bully to blame for their issues.


That's true. But the embargo is still just an excuse. There are many countries willing to do business with Cuba, including our home countries. But to do business, one has to have something to offer. And here's the problem. There isn't too much Cuba can sell internationally. Also, I don't understand the lack of food. How's possible that the Dominican Republic that has roughly the same population on half of the area can have working agriculture and Cuba really doesn't?

No, the communist regime is just unsustainable. After all, I experienced it myself in my old country.



travel industry


While lower by volume compared to the Dominican Republic, with 4.7million arrivals yearly the Cuban travel industry is definitely not negligible. And that may be currently a part of the problem. The tourism money is missed. Badly.

Kiwirob wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
Aesma wrote:
There are calls for the US to intervene. I guess Americans never learn ? And the situation is already partly caused by the US and its embargo, adding insult to injury.


No. The situation is not caused by the US. It is the political system that is simply not feasible. Period.


So decades of unjust embargo isn't part of the problem?


No, embargo imposed by one country definitely isn't a problem. Not having anything to trade is. So is to have a lot of arable land and not being to able to produce enough food to feed the population.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:44 pm

Okie wrote:
Aesma wrote:
If the US treated Cuba like say, Saudi Arabia, Cuban authorities wouldn't have such a big bully to blame for their issues.


I don't recall Saudi nationals visiting the US being called escapees.

Okie

What do you think Kashoggi was
 
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:46 pm

seb146 wrote:
par13del wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:
What are the protests about? I saw something about people having internet access and finding out Cuba isnt doing well on Covid front or something? And then I saw Cuba made 5 vaccines and they cant distribute to their peoples because of the US embargo which is limiting access to syringes and medical equipment...

...so what happened to the Canadians and the EU who regard the embargo as not needed and openly trade with Cuba, as they always say, the US is not the world.
Cuba has medical personnel that they can use to trade if hard funds are not available to purchase medical supplies.

As for the embargo, the US has somehow found a way to tolerate the communist regime in Vietnam where they lost thousands of brave soldiers, but a communist nation so close to home appears to present an intractable situation the cannot be handled diplomatically. Do we really believe the people of Cuba are suffering more than those in Vietnam or China, even Russia?


China and Vietnam have factories that make cheap crap they can market to Americans and the world. What does Cuba have? Beaches and old cars. When the MAGAs decided we can't trade with Cuba and covid happened, that was when things started to go bad for them.


Things were going bad in Cuba long before COVID and Trump. If the system there is so good, why do Cubans come to US even at the risk of dying in transit. Oh, they love our unjust capitalist system more than we do.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:33 pm

Being cut off from you natural trading partner has an impact, even if other, further away countries are willing to trade.

WildcatYXU wrote:
Aesma wrote:
If the US treated Cuba like say, Saudi Arabia, Cuban authorities wouldn't have such a big bully to blame for their issues.


That's true. But the embargo is still just an excuse. There are many countries willing to do business with Cuba, including our home countries. But to do business, one has to have something to offer. And here's the problem. There isn't too much Cuba can sell internationally. Also, I don't understand the lack of food. How's possible that the Dominican Republic that has roughly the same population on half of the area can have working agriculture and Cuba really doesn't?

No, the communist regime is just unsustainable. After all, I experienced it myself in my old country.


I have no insight into the current situation, but I know that Cuba doesn't use chemical fertilizers because they can't afford them, only some pesticides for tobacco. As a result bees in Cuba are thriving like nowhere else on the planet.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:09 am

seb146 wrote:
. When the MAGAs decided we can't trade with Cuba and covid happened, that was when things started to go bad for them.


Didn't the USA decide we can't trade with Cuba in the 60s? Who was MAGA back then?
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:32 am

Aesma wrote:
Being cut off from you natural trading partner has an impact, even if other, further away countries are willing to trade.



This would be a valid point if the embargo would be a new thing. However, the embargo is around in some form since 1960. I believe 61 years is ample time to build new trade relations. A far as the distance is concerned, it didn't seem to be a problem in times when the USSR supported Cuba as its beachhead in the area.
 
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seb146
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:48 am

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
. When the MAGAs decided we can't trade with Cuba and covid happened, that was when things started to go bad for them.


Didn't the USA decide we can't trade with Cuba in the 60s? Who was MAGA back then?


And that policy started to be reversed because it was found to be doing more harm than good. Nothing wrong with adulting and saying "we messed up so let's fix things" instead of throwing a massive tantrum over something that happened decades ago.

Nice try at deflection, though.
 
LHAM
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:26 am

Who would have thought that a brutal totalitarian regime would treat its citizens like brutal totalitarian regimes do.

Cuba Cracks Down on Protests Amid Worst Economic Crisis in Decades

Cuba’s Communist government intensified its crackdown against demonstrators and activists on Monday, deploying security forces across the country and arresting at least 80 people, many of whose whereabouts are unknown, activists said.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/cuba-cracks-down-on-protests-amid-worst-economic-crisis-in-decades/ar-AAM3Pmt
 
ltbewr
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:13 am

Communism is against real human nature. It has never existed in its ideals. The protests are about its failure in Cuba, people fed up with the daily political and economic repression including by the USA, its former colonial owner (1899-1926 politically, economically to 1960). Sadly the USA's policies have been excessively influenced by a tiny number of Cuban families in South Florida, that liberalizing our trade and other policies there mean losing elections in the state. It is no wonder Trump as President reversed polices of Pres. Obama. Hopefully Cuba will someday soon be liberated from Authoritarian government, become a modern Democratic Socialists state and not become like Haiti with battles for power, a few rich persons in control and abject poverty continuing.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:41 am

LHAM wrote:
Who would have thought that a brutal totalitarian regime would treat its citizens like brutal totalitarian regimes do.

Cuba Cracks Down on Protests Amid Worst Economic Crisis in Decades

Cuba’s Communist government intensified its crackdown against demonstrators and activists on Monday, deploying security forces across the country and arresting at least 80 people, many of whose whereabouts are unknown, activists said.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/cuba-cracks-down-on-protests-amid-worst-economic-crisis-in-decades/ar-AAM3Pmt

I feel for the people of Cuba. They had a communist revolution as the prior problems were that bad.

But communism doesn't work, so it become oppressive. I don't know what to suggest as what is fair won't happen.

Lightsaber
 
bennett123
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:56 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_ ... %80%931959)

Cuba did not go Communist in a vacuum,

After being a Spanish colony, it became a US protectorate followed by the Batista dictatorship.

Faced with Batista and the Mob, Castro would have seemed a definite step in the right direction.

If the US had embraced the change instead to trying for back door regime change things could have been different..
 
CometII
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:42 pm

The Cuban exile groups in Miami already are sailing off to Cuba.

These people are just dumb, no other explanation. There is no better way to kill a movement from within by allowing those trying to put it down to show a link with outside forces. No one likes foreigners to intervene in your affairs, so their excessive protrusion may very will give a significant boost to the authorities. The best strategy is to be cool about it and offer vague words of support, but making it clear that this problem is the regime's mess and not being orchestrated by anyone else.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:43 pm

Blaming the embargo for the disaster in Cuba is an old lame excuse.

They trade with Russia, and China and many other US hating nations. Why would they need the US? The regime just needs a culprit for all of their disasters, and the US embargo is a great excuse, so as not to be held accountable for their corrupt and disastrous government and socialist/communist policies.

And by the way, the US embracing Cuba's communism and opening itself up to Cuba is the solution? how great are we doing with China ever since Nixon-Kissinger decided to do the same?

As for what's going on, as a Cuban-American, I am cautiously optimistic. The regime is Soviet tactics trained, and has worked for 60+ years, so I am holding my breath. Lets see if this is the beginning of at least the people there losing their fear.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:20 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
And by the way, the US embracing Cuba's communism and opening itself up to Cuba is the solution? how great are we doing with China ever since Nixon-Kissinger decided to do the same?

The blockade hasn't worked and embracing China hasn't worked so what does that leave?
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:58 pm

CometII wrote:
The Cuban exile groups in Miami already are sailing off to Cuba.

These people are just dumb, no other explanation. There is no better way to kill a movement from within by allowing those trying to put it down to show a link with outside forces. No one likes foreigners to intervene in your affairs, so their excessive protrusion may very will give a significant boost to the authorities. The best strategy is to be cool about it and offer vague words of support, but making it clear that this problem is the regime's mess and not being orchestrated by anyone else.


That is what Biden has done. He voiced vague support for freedom and has upheld the embargo. Biden is doing the right thing.
 
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par13del
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:12 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Blaming the embargo for the disaster in Cuba is an old lame excuse.

They trade with Russia, and China and many other US hating nations. Why would they need the US? The regime just needs a culprit for all of their disasters, and the US embargo is a great excuse, so as not to be held accountable for their corrupt and disastrous government and socialist/communist policies.

Unfortunately, when the US forces nations like Canada, the UK and those making up the EU into US hating nations by placing penalties on them if they trade with Cuba it diminishes the mindset that the US is just not trading with Cuba, its an embargo. Not trading with Cuba is a US right just like they trade with China, Russia and most nations not named North Korea and Iran, constantly putting measures in place to ensure other nations cannot trade with Cuba ups the ante, however, it is an embargo, so maybe if the US Navy was still enforcing it I would think differently, or the flip side, see it in the same light that you do.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Tue Jul 13, 2021 8:49 pm

par13del wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Blaming the embargo for the disaster in Cuba is an old lame excuse.

They trade with Russia, and China and many other US hating nations. Why would they need the US? The regime just needs a culprit for all of their disasters, and the US embargo is a great excuse, so as not to be held accountable for their corrupt and disastrous government and socialist/communist policies.

Unfortunately, when the US forces nations like Canada, the UK and those making up the EU into US hating nations by placing penalties on them if they trade with Cuba it diminishes the mindset that the US is just not trading with Cuba, its an embargo. Not trading with Cuba is a US right just like they trade with China, Russia and most nations not named North Korea and Iran, constantly putting measures in place to ensure other nations cannot trade with Cuba ups the ante, however, it is an embargo, so maybe if the US Navy was still enforcing it I would think differently, or the flip side, see it in the same light that you do.


Again, this excuse has been pushed ever since the Soviet Union fell and Cuba stopped getting money from them. And has now in recent years since the Venezuelan collapse come again as another excuse. Truth of the matter is Cuba has trade with many countries, despite the embargo:

Image

So the embargo is an excuse, used by the globalist left, and their socialist/communist friends into believing that the reason Cuba has huge problems is because of the US. They trade, and have foreign investment into their country, in fact from European nations, and also from Canada. The embargo doesn't stop that.

As for the US, Obama went as far as to allow tourism and travel between the US and Cuba, how did that help? they had a 'rapprochement', did that enable the Communist dictatorship in Havana to become more democratic and less repressive against their own people? No, they used that money to enrich themselves and their party leaders and further buy weapons to use against their own people.

Giving money to bad tyrannical governments is not going to make them better, if so show me which tyrannical government has.
 
NIKV69
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:16 pm

seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
. When the MAGAs decided we can't trade with Cuba and covid happened, that was when things started to go bad for them.


Didn't the USA decide we can't trade with Cuba in the 60s? Who was MAGA back then?


And that policy started to be reversed because it was found to be doing more harm than good. Nothing wrong with adulting and saying "we messed up so let's fix things" instead of throwing a massive tantrum over something that happened decades ago.

Nice try at deflection, though.


No deflection at all. Biden could get rid of it with one swipe of the Pen. I mean he has signed how many EOs? Why hasn't he?
 
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seb146
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:43 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

Didn't the USA decide we can't trade with Cuba in the 60s? Who was MAGA back then?


And that policy started to be reversed because it was found to be doing more harm than good. Nothing wrong with adulting and saying "we messed up so let's fix things" instead of throwing a massive tantrum over something that happened decades ago.

Nice try at deflection, though.


No deflection at all. Biden could get rid of it with one swipe of the Pen. I mean he has signed how many EOs? Why hasn't he?


So make the embargo stronger and have the Cuban people suffer even more?

Maybe Biden is not laser focused on Cuba because of the lies and attempts at Republicans to con their voters into overthrowing and cancelling democracy.
 
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par13del
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:09 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
No deflection at all. Biden could get rid of it with one swipe of the Pen. I mean he has signed how many EOs? Why hasn't he?

Interesting reading, does make one wonder why no one has tried, in any event, it would be very interesting to see the extent the US Cuban lobby would go to prevent / challenge.
However, it might be the way the embargo ultimately ends, as the Cuban lobby in South Florida have not caved all these years and I am inclined to believe they never will.
Heck the protest in Miami today probably had greater effect than anything done in Cuba.

https://theglobalamericans.org/2020/10/ ... o-on-cuba/
https://wsvn.com/news/local/demonstrato ... xpressway/
 
RightRudder
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:16 am

par13del wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
No deflection at all. Biden could get rid of it with one swipe of the Pen. I mean he has signed how many EOs? Why hasn't he?

Interesting reading, does make one wonder why no one has tried, in any event, it would be very interesting to see the extent the US Cuban lobby would go to prevent / challenge.
However, it might be the way the embargo ultimately ends, as the Cuban lobby in South Florida have not caved all these years and I am inclined to believe they never will.
Heck the protest in Miami today probably had greater effect than anything done in Cuba.

https://theglobalamericans.org/2020/10/ ... o-on-cuba/
https://wsvn.com/news/local/demonstrato ... xpressway/


The question still remains from all against the embargo in this thread. What will the end to the embargo do? The original intent was to keep the Russians out in the 60's.
Prior to the revolution of 59, Cuba had many companies the US had. Monsanto, Dupont, Coca Cola etc. Batista just messed it all up. Looking away from the Mafia,
Gambling corruption and prostitution.

Whoever is ruling there now will not change. They want to keep it the way it is. Beautiful. Yes, pristine, untouched. With untouched beaches.

The people want and need free enterprise. They don't want frozen chicken that was imported by President Clinton in the 90s.

The author of the article favors ending the embargo. Free elections. Lol. Open up trade. Trade what? Trade tourism? Trade bicycle manufacturing? Trade tobacco? Sounds like a great trade balance.
The Global Americans article states at the bottom of the page that we should have an obligation. In the 1825 case of The Antelope where the U.S. Supreme Court said, “no principle of general law is more universally acknowledged, than the perfect equality of nations… It results from this equality, that no one [nation] can rightfully impose a rule on another.” But what does that mean? We should treat a 3rd world country, such as Cuba, equally when these tyrants (or whats left of them there) dicate? If you want to call our right to an embargo a rule we have placed, directly or indirectly. Fine play in the sandbox. Ending an embargo won't solve it though.

There is so much human rights violations in Cuba. There is little to no humanitarian compassion when freedom is and opportunity. But favor the state? Well, that is a different story. Has Communism and Marxism worked there in the past 60 plus years? Yes. They stopped the mess Bautista caused. They did not catch his escape and all the stolen money he took though. People are being killed and assassinated on the streets as we speak. Rest assured that those killers will eventually want to immigrate to the US. But this is not the embargo of the 60's or 70s. Everybody knows everyone else's first and last names now. When the attempt to migrate here. Which they will try. US immigration will know who they are.
 
Zeppi
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:49 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
Okie wrote:
Aesma wrote:
If the US treated Cuba like say, Saudi Arabia, Cuban authorities wouldn't have such a big bully to blame for their issues.


I don't recall Saudi nationals visiting the US being called escapees.

Okie

What do you think Kashoggi was


And most saudi women that try to leg it: https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/01/30/sau ... women-flee
 
JJJ
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:25 am

RightRudder wrote:

The author of the article favors ending the embargo. Free elections. Lol. Open up trade. Trade what? Trade tourism? Trade bicycle manufacturing? Trade tobacco? Sounds like a great trade balance.


Trade and investment.

Cuba has a skilled workforce besides plenty of tourism potential. But for that it needs major infrastructure and production investment.

I have been doing business with Cuba for quite a long time. At one point we had to schedule a 3-way operation with canned fish in exchange for agrochemicals and some machinery. That's how bad is it for Western companies to deal with Cuba, and always with an eye on your USA operations that can be heavily impacted if you make too much noise.

I can tell you for sure that Cuba has a much better trained and skilled workforce than the very capitalist Dominican Republic next door.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:58 am

JJJ wrote:

Trade and investment.

Cuba has a skilled workforce besides plenty of tourism potential. But for that it needs major infrastructure and production investment.


Money from post-fascist Spain has been keeping Cuban communists in power. That's how it is.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:14 am

RightRudder : I'm against the embargo, not because of what it will or could do, but on principle. Cuba isn't doing anything to the US, is not invading countries, the embargo is illegal and recognized as such. It hurts Cuba but it also hurts the US on the international stage.

What is your argument for the embargo ?
 
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par13del
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:20 am

RightRudder wrote:
The question still remains from all against the embargo in this thread. What will the end to the embargo do?

The end of the embargo will allow those who fled to the USA and formed the political movement to attempt to return to Cuba to elevate the country back to its hey days. Unfortunately, when the borders were slightly open and a number of them started visiting Cuba on a regular basis, they did not find the masses uneducated and waiting with arms open wide to welcome their saviors.
Once that reality sets in, nation building will commence.
 
JJJ
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:44 am

L410Turbolet wrote:
JJJ wrote:

Trade and investment.

Cuba has a skilled workforce besides plenty of tourism potential. But for that it needs major infrastructure and production investment.

Money from post-fascist Spain has been keeping Cuban communists in power. That's how it is.


Well, if you ask the regime they'll tell you Spain, just like most of the Western world is actively subverting the regime funding the opposition and even youtubers.

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/14/10158375 ... -of-critic

Money from all over the world keeps a fascist islamocracy in Saudi Arabia etc. in power and I'm sure the devices you use to browse a.net are made for the most part in autocratic commie China.

Most of the world is not a nice place to live, I know for sure I'd rather be born in Cuba than Dominican Republic or Honduras.
 
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par13del
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:17 pm

JJJ wrote:

Money from all over the world keeps a fascist islamocracy in Saudi Arabia etc. in power and I'm sure the devices you use to browse a.net are made for the most part in autocratic commie China.

Ahh, but following the spirit of this thread, Saudi Arabia has something to trade, oil and the money they receive is used to buy billions of western goods, Cuba on the other hand.....
Around and around we go......
 
RightRudder
Topic Author
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:45 pm

Aesma wrote:
I'm against the embargo, not because of what it will or could do, but on principle. Cuba isn't doing anything to the US, is not invading countries, the embargo is illegal and recognized as such. It hurts Cuba but it also hurts the US on the international stage.

What is your argument for the embargo ?


Against the embargo because of principle? What do you mean principle? That the embargo is immoral?
 
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par13del
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Wed Jul 14, 2021 1:00 pm

I won't speak for Aesma, but if you ignore the word "principle" and focus on the rest of his point, what is the embargo actually doing?
The bigger ignored issue as of now is the massive number of claims filed in USA courts for damages when Batista supporters fled Cuba and Castro nationalized and seized a number of "properties", those claims in USA courts have been legalized and any economic opening of the country will follow the path of Haiti. It took a massive earthquake with massive loss of live for the USA to finally "convince" France to cease demanding and taking reparations from Haiti for its independence at the barrel of the gun many many many years ago.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:10 pm

RightRudder wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I'm against the embargo, not because of what it will or could do, but on principle. Cuba isn't doing anything to the US, is not invading countries, the embargo is illegal and recognized as such. It hurts Cuba but it also hurts the US on the international stage.

What is your argument for the embargo ?


Against the embargo because of principle? What do you mean principle? That the embargo is immoral?


Yes. There is a vote on it at the UN about every year. 190 countries against, USA and Israel for.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13836
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:40 pm

Wonder if there is any update on this case? I wonder if the cuban government was watching the show?


https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/14/americas ... index.html

Moments after, the YouTuber returns and tells the interviewer she's been asked to come with who she said were police officers, adding that the Cuban government is now responsible for her whereabouts
 
bennett123
Posts: 10865
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Re: Wide spread protests in Cuba

Wed Jul 14, 2021 6:52 pm

If the US scrapped their sanctions, then the reasons for Cuba's problems would be much clearer.

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