Stunning results out today from Gallup in their poll of Americans' confidence in major institutions. Confidence in science remains strong at 64%, behind top spots the military and small business. But quite significant is a major decline in Republicans' support for science, especially compared to results from 45 years ago.



Image from Gallup posted to the article

The new results are based on Gallup's annual Confidence in Institutions survey, conducted June 1-July 5. The survey has tracked Americans' confidence in a variety of institutions since 1973 but had asked about the institution of science only once previously, in 1975.

Confidence in science is among the highest of the 17 institutions tested in the 2021 survey, behind small business (70%) and the military (69%).

https://news.gallup.com/poll/352397/dem ... erges.aspx

On the one hand this is expected given populism and its zeal for conspiracy theory, but on the other, it flies in the face of common sense. Science is undisputedly the engine behind American economic prowess and growth. Science has brought us all tangible progress in tech, aerospace, healthcare, and materials. Quantum computing is about to revolutionize processing power and the capabilities of enterprise machine learning functions. Science will be the vehicle for solving our mounting challenges in energy, food supply, mitigation against global warming and sea level rise, deforestation, and many other issues that will impact our lives in the next 50 years. This is the time we can least afford to be losing confidence in science.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose. Not surprising considering a lot of Republican support comes from the evangelical protestant community. These institutions teach that science is against God, which is hardly new, see Galileo. In seventh grade, the private, religious school I attended had our science class relitigate the Scopes trial as a group exercise. What it's more a reflection of is the ongoing political realignment of blue collar, non-college educated whites. Through most of the latter half of the 20th Century that vote was split between the two major parties based on geography -- now, not nearly as much as that voting block is largely a Republican voting block. Paradoxical or not, it's not realistic to ask a group of people who've taken maybe one or two high school level science courses to care or find relevance to something that they can't do.

It's hard to overstate how little time republicans spend in reality. Blue and red America have been diverging for decades, and red state/local policies have made them worse off by nearly every metric. The covid vaccine "hesitancy" is merely a way station on the road to Tennessee's total insanity on all vaccines. Life expectancy was already longer in blue states, and this will be an inflection point that accelerates the slide in red states.

This is just a reminder of the slide of the GOP into an uneducated , white Christian nationalist, mess that is no longer in touch with reality. The economy does not matter for those that are pushed ever more into a neo fascist remnant of the old republican party. Science and reason are long gone. There are still holdouts due to the fact that we have two parties, but I think Covid, and the current anti-democracy, anti American push by the GOP will keep making this a larger gap.

Today’s GOP is literally the Christian version of the Taliban. 600,000 dead bodies couldn't convince them modern medicine has value. Maybe we can make the next election about gravity and just drop apples to the ground during the debates. Hand of god votes Trump and science believers vote Biden. Managing our future with 70M confirmed morons in our midst wont be an easy task.

The million dollar question is why the drop, especially when compared with 1975 society

I would always try to avoid the non-aviation forum, but this post is a hanging slider.
Reading the replies to this post, it becomes clear to me that Democrat voters know as little about the right as they claim the right knows about "reality." I strongly encourage you not to brush off 74 million people as dumb, anti-science, bigoted, etc. Take the time to at least try to understand their point of view and you may learn something. The "holier than thou" superiority complex many on the left seem to carry doesn't make you look as good as you think it does.

Republicans and conservatives as a whole don't "trust the science" because the idea of "the science" since March 2020 has lost any concrete meaning, and look in the mirror if you want to know who to thank.
Let's go through the timeline:

March 2020 - As the impending pandemic grows more evident in its severity, even many conservatives I know took an extremely cautious initial approach because we simply don't know anything yet. As schools and offices begin to close, a well-intended debate is sparked on both sides over the pros and cons of making kids learn in their own homes. A debate that is extremely complex and I'm sure has its own thread somewhere. Epidemiologists begin publishing initial information and "14 days to slow the spread" becomes a rallying cry. Mask mandates begin to be issued. Everyone becomes familiar with a graph showing two curves, one with an initial high spike of cases that far exceeds hospital capacity, and the second a more extended gradual curve that remains within the limits of hospital capacity. Everyone is told and agrees that the latter curve is more desirable.

Mid-Spring 2020 - A partisan divide is beginning to become clear among lockdown ideologies. The left, I believe in good spirit, took the stance that any measure to prevent any death from COVID was necessary. The argument was that the pain from losing a loved one far outweighed the boredom and lack of stimulation from not leaving one's home. In a vacuum and without context, this is a statement that of course makes sense. The right took the stance, particularly as it became clear that this virus disproportionately affected the elderly and immunocompromised, that the negative side affects of the lockdown for young and healthy people was not worth the benefits of preventing them from catching COVID.

Also mid-spring 2020 - President Trump has made clear his stance on lockdowns. So has the soon-to-be-deified Dr. Anthony Fauci. Because the knee-jerk reaction of our institutions (more on that later) is to take the opposite stance of Trump, the best and most "scientific" thing a government could do was shut everything down. This lead to the placement of Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-NY) on a media pedestal, despite NY getting hit among the hardest of any state in the country. This also led to Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-FL) being re-named "Deathsantis" by people whose mothers tell them they're funny.

Also mid-spring 2020 - Get ready for the "H-word." Yup, Hydroxychloroquine makes its way into the headlines after Trump touts it as a potential cure. Again, that which Trump supports must be evil. So the media and our institutions militarize against Hydroxychloroquine. Everyone pretends Trump said to inject Lysol. A woman in Arizona gives her husband fishtank cleaner that contains Hydroxychloroquine and everyone blames Trump despite the couple being registered Democrats.

Late May 2020 - George Floyd is killed. Mass protests spark throughout the country. People are outdoors, packed shoulder to shoulder, some masked and some not, yelling, singing, and protesting. The WHO then says this is ok and not a threat to spread COVID. Still no outdoor sports, many parks remain closed, you certainly can't go to church, but protesting for this media-approved cause is exempt from COVID restrictions. Many Republicans at this point see straight through the charade of lockdowns.

Summer 2020 - George Floyd protests continue. Also, lockdown protests emerge. Both are outdoors. Only one is media-approved as safe.

Summer 2020 - Top Democrat officials who have instituted strict lockdowns, such as Gov. Gavin Newsome (D-CA) are seen maskless enjoying the company of friends in restaurants, something they don't allow their citizens to do. Remember, politicians think they're better than you. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) gives a late-night "comedy" interview saying how much she loves lockdowns because she gets to stay home and eat ice cream. Meanwhile, unemployment continues to soar as governments make it illegal for many jobs to continue.

Summer 2020 - Many red states, in particular Florida, are open with little to no restrictions. While they experience some rises in cases, the curve chart looks a lot more like the "optimal" curve we were told about in March. But now this is a very bad thing. Goalposts have moved from "14 days to slow the spread" to "let's not exceed hospital capacity" to "any rise in cases, material or immaterial, is unacceptable".
The death rates in FL mirror those in CA for much of the summer, despite polar opposite levels of restriction on gathering size and masking, and despite the population of Florida being much older and theoretically much more susceptible to COVID. But only one of those states is in the headlines every day as evil.

Late summer 2020 - Some optimism begins to emerge regarding vaccines. A couple companies have said they have been working hard and will soon begin trials. Also, Gov. Cuomo's book is a bestseller.

Fall 2020 - Presidential Election debates commence between President Trump and then-D. Nominee Biden. Trump asserts that vaccines will be ready by the end of 2020 and available to most citizens by spring 2021. Immediately "Experts" and "Scientists" come out and insist this is impossible and that Trump is full of it https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/09/16/913560563/cdc-director-says-covid-vaccine-likely-wont-be-widely-available-until-next-year. The media overwhelmingly reiterate this sentiment to the public. Many top left-wing voices express they will not trust a Trump-issued vaccine. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/harrris-vaccine-i-would-not-trust-donald-trump-n1239422

November 2020 - Joe Biden is elected 46th President of the United States.

Fall-Winter 2020 - Plenty goes on, none of it related to the "science" we're talking about here.

January 2021 - Joe Biden is inaugurated and is now President.

Winter and early Spring 2021 - Vaccines roll out at a healthy pace, one that President Biden happily takes credit for but was the same pace as from a few weeks before Inauguration.

Spring 2021 - Conservatives begin to express hesitancy at the speed at which the vaccine was rolled out. This hesitation is mocked, not answered by "science" and those who don't trust the COVID vaccine are lumped as one in the same with those who oppose much more established vaccines, such as Hepatitis, Tetanus, Cholera, Smallpox, among others. Again, those with hesitancies are simply mocked, not answered.

Spring 2021 - It remains true that this virus is much more dangerous to the elderly and immunocompromised. However, health "officials and experts" have long warned that healthy youth can still carry the virus and infect others. Guidelines are not being adjusted to reflect that this doesn't matter if the adult is vaccinated.

Spring 2021 - Many purple states are lifting restrictions. A lot of Americans stop wearing masks. Ballgames and concerts begin to resume. And yet the CDC continues to vaguely warn of impending doom.

Spring 2021 - The vaccine gets emergency approval for use in kids as young as 12. Conservatives question the necessity of this, claiming the adults are vaccinated and that this disease is unlikely to harm someone that young. Those people are mocked as antivaxxers. The CDC continues to warn of a "risk" of infection after vaccination, despite that risk being minute and the severity of the cases being significantly lower.

Spring 2021 - Reports of Hydroxychloroquine being used as an effective COVID treatment become well-known. The media pretends they didn't immediately vilify Trump for this suggestion. No follow-up.

Summer 2021 - The only place most states still require a mask is public transport. But you can't ask why. People feel like they need to "ease back into things," so it makes sense to them to wear a mask on a plane. Except you don't. If you're vaccinated, you're fine.

If you didn't read the whole thing, here's a summary. Conservatives don't not "believe science." They want consistency and an explanation for their questions and concerns.

Politicians could gather maskless, but you couldn't

If you have concerns about this particular vaccine, the only possible explanation is that you're a dumb antivaxxer

The vaccine is very effective but you still need to wear a mask in some cases because there's still a risk but if you say there's a risk, no more Twitter or Facebook for you. And I'd be willing to bet that every individual who insists masking is still necessary is vaccinated now.

Hydroxychloroquine was very bad because Trump said its name, but now it's good because Trump isn't saying its name.

Top "scientists and experts" predicted a COVID outbreak after the Tampa Super Bowl celebrations, after the full-capacity Opening Day in Arlington, TX, and as people swarmed beaches. And nothing. And no follow-up or "we were wrong."

You could gather in large numbers if it's for the right reasons.

All of those conflicting points and more have been made in the name of science. And the only conclusion you can reach is that the GOP hate's science because we're all dumb? Get over yourselves.

BWIAirport wrote:

All of those conflicting points and more have been made in the name of science. And the only conclusion you can reach is that the GOP hate's science because we're all dumb? Get over yourselves.

You did not read the first post. Only 45% believe in science. Not all. But the GOP as a whole is now anti-science and anti-intelligence

Your copy and paste post highlights a lack of understanding of the scientific method or transmission and what changes when new information comes available.

It is mostly a post of people looking to blame someone for minor inconveniences to their lives from a deafly virus, rather than working to make things better.

It serves as a manifesto of everything that is wrong with the GOP as a whole today. Blame deflection, power tripping, and lies, rather than serve as a functional civic organization.

casinterest wrote:

BWIAirport wrote:

All of those conflicting points and more have been made in the name of science. And the only conclusion you can reach is that the GOP hate's science because we're all dumb? Get over yourselves.

Your copy and paste post highlights a lack of understanding of the scientific method or transmission and what changes when new information comes available.

The scientific method and changing one's views when new information becomes available would explain an evolution in mask mandates, for example, if it became clear that they were or weren't effective. It doesn't explain knee-jerk reactions to call Trump a liar without proof, then realizing he was right on more than a few things. It doesn't explain simultaneously arguing that vaccines are effective and that you should still wear a mask if vaccinated because there's a risk. It doesn't explain largely ignoring the failures of blue lockdown states, and reporting only on the failures of red states without providing context. It doesn't explain giving a green light to protests you like while at the same time vilifying any other mass gathering.
I can follow that argument on the evolution of the left's stance on the vaccine. You doubted it, now you see it works and you like it. Fine. But that flip coincided so perfectly with the inauguration of the new administration you'll have to understand why conservatives don't see it as a good faith evolution of viewpoint, especially considering the rest of the points I mentioned. Also, truly adhering to the scientific method would seemingly involve responding to genuine concerns about the vaccine and not mocking them. It would at the very least take into account the pros and cons of vaccinating young people instead of mocking those who are hesitant. But the stance now is that if you oppose vaccinating any single human of any age above 12 for any reason, it has to be because you're anti-science. And you really don't help yourselves by blocking every Twitter user who posts information that contradicts your point of view. That sort of censorship, without actually responding to the concerns, will only lead people to doubt you.

BWIAirport wrote:

casinterest wrote:

BWIAirport wrote:

All of those conflicting points and more have been made in the name of science. And the only conclusion you can reach is that the GOP hate's science because we're all dumb? Get over yourselves.

Your copy and paste post highlights a lack of understanding of the scientific method or transmission and what changes when new information comes available.

The scientific method and changing one's views when new information becomes available would explain an evolution in mask mandates, for example, if it became clear that they were or weren't effective. It doesn't explain knee-jerk reactions to call Trump a liar without proof, then realizing he was right on more than a few things. It doesn't explain simultaneously arguing that vaccines are effective and that you should still wear a mask if vaccinated because there's a risk. It doesn't explain largely ignoring the failures of blue lockdown states, and reporting only on the failures of red states without providing context. It doesn't explain giving a green light to protests you like while at the same time vilifying any other mass gathering.
I can follow that argument on the evolution of the left's stance on the vaccine. You doubted it, now you see it works and you like it. Fine. But that flip coincided so perfectly with the inauguration of the new administration you'll have to understand why conservatives don't see it as a good faith evolution of viewpoint, especially considering the rest of the points I mentioned. Also, truly adhering to the scientific method would seemingly involve responding to genuine concerns about the vaccine and not mocking them. It would at the very least take into account the pros and cons of vaccinating young people instead of mocking those who are hesitant. But the stance now is that if you oppose vaccinating any single human of any age above 12 for any reason, it has to be because you're anti-science. And you really don't help yourselves by blocking every Twitter user who posts information that contradicts your point of view. That sort of censorship, without actually responding to the concerns, will only lead people to doubt you.

Trump is a disgraceful liar. Full stop. Just because a clock is right two times a day doesn't mean it works . The same with Trump. Conservatives have this Religious Fever that maybe he will be right eventually, when all the current signs say he is wrong. That is faith, and that is something that should be reserved for religion. Not for leadership. You can't have someone arguing for the effectiveness of vaccines and social distancing that flouts it and gets infected, and wishes for an injectable chorine drip.

As for the flip on vaccines? There wasn't one. The scientific community said 9-15 months, and we got some amazing vaccines in 9-12 months. Your argument of a flip comes from bad right wing sources.

Censorship? No, it is blocking the kid from class that always had to sit in the corner because they never paid attention,, and then went blah blah blah with their flingers in their ears when asked to pay attention.
We have some really bad leaders in the GOP, and some horrible followers. Unfortunately it is becoming worse and worse, because at the end of the day they just want to make bad rules to get money./attention like the noisy kid in the class.

BWIAirport wrote:

I would always try to avoid the non-aviation forum, but this post is a hanging slider.
Reading the replies to this post, it becomes clear to me that Democrat voters know as little about the right as they claim the right knows about "reality." I strongly encourage you not to brush off 74 million people as dumb, anti-science, bigoted, etc. Take the time to at least try to understand their point of view and you may learn something. The "holier than thou" superiority complex many on the left seem to carry doesn't make you look as good as you think it does.

Republicans and conservatives as a whole don't "trust the science" because the idea of "the science" since March 2020 has lost any concrete meaning, and look in the mirror if you want to know who to thank.
Let's go through the timeline:

March 2020 - As the impending pandemic grows more evident in its severity, even many conservatives I know took an extremely cautious initial approach because we simply don't know anything yet. As schools and offices begin to close, a well-intended debate is sparked on both sides over the pros and cons of making kids learn in their own homes. A debate that is extremely complex and I'm sure has its own thread somewhere. Epidemiologists begin publishing initial information and "14 days to slow the spread" becomes a rallying cry. Mask mandates begin to be issued. Everyone becomes familiar with a graph showing two curves, one with an initial high spike of cases that far exceeds hospital capacity, and the second a more extended gradual curve that remains within the limits of hospital capacity. Everyone is told and agrees that the latter curve is more desirable.

Mid-Spring 2020 - A partisan divide is beginning to become clear among lockdown ideologies. The left, I believe in good spirit, took the stance that any measure to prevent any death from COVID was necessary. The argument was that the pain from losing a loved one far outweighed the boredom and lack of stimulation from not leaving one's home. In a vacuum and without context, this is a statement that of course makes sense. The right took the stance, particularly as it became clear that this virus disproportionately affected the elderly and immunocompromised, that the negative side affects of the lockdown for young and healthy people was not worth the benefits of preventing them from catching COVID.

Also mid-spring 2020 - President Trump has made clear his stance on lockdowns. So has the soon-to-be-deified Dr. Anthony Fauci. Because the knee-jerk reaction of our institutions (more on that later) is to take the opposite stance of Trump, the best and most "scientific" thing a government could do was shut everything down. This lead to the placement of Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-NY) on a media pedestal, despite NY getting hit among the hardest of any state in the country. This also led to Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-FL) being re-named "Deathsantis" by people whose mothers tell them they're funny.

Also mid-spring 2020 - Get ready for the "H-word." Yup, Hydroxychloroquine makes its way into the headlines after Trump touts it as a potential cure. Again, that which Trump supports must be evil. So the media and our institutions militarize against Hydroxychloroquine. Everyone pretends Trump said to inject Lysol. A woman in Arizona gives her husband fishtank cleaner that contains Hydroxychloroquine and everyone blames Trump despite the couple being registered Democrats.

Late May 2020 - George Floyd is killed. Mass protests spark throughout the country. People are outdoors, packed shoulder to shoulder, some masked and some not, yelling, singing, and protesting. The WHO then says this is ok and not a threat to spread COVID. Still no outdoor sports, many parks remain closed, you certainly can't go to church, but protesting for this media-approved cause is exempt from COVID restrictions. Many Republicans at this point see straight through the charade of lockdowns.

Summer 2020 - George Floyd protests continue. Also, lockdown protests emerge. Both are outdoors. Only one is media-approved as safe.

Summer 2020 - Top Democrat officials who have instituted strict lockdowns, such as Gov. Gavin Newsome (D-CA) are seen maskless enjoying the company of friends in restaurants, something they don't allow their citizens to do. Remember, politicians think they're better than you. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) gives a late-night "comedy" interview saying how much she loves lockdowns because she gets to stay home and eat ice cream. Meanwhile, unemployment continues to soar as governments make it illegal for many jobs to continue.

Summer 2020 - Many red states, in particular Florida, are open with little to no restrictions. While they experience some rises in cases, the curve chart looks a lot more like the "optimal" curve we were told about in March. But now this is a very bad thing. Goalposts have moved from "14 days to slow the spread" to "let's not exceed hospital capacity" to "any rise in cases, material or immaterial, is unacceptable".
The death rates in FL mirror those in CA for much of the summer, despite polar opposite levels of restriction on gathering size and masking, and despite the population of Florida being much older and theoretically much more susceptible to COVID. But only one of those states is in the headlines every day as evil.

Late summer 2020 - Some optimism begins to emerge regarding vaccines. A couple companies have said they have been working hard and will soon begin trials. Also, Gov. Cuomo's book is a bestseller.

Fall 2020 - Presidential Election debates commence between President Trump and then-D. Nominee Biden. Trump asserts that vaccines will be ready by the end of 2020 and available to most citizens by spring 2021. Immediately "Experts" and "Scientists" come out and insist this is impossible and that Trump is full of it https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/09/16/913560563/cdc-director-says-covid-vaccine-likely-wont-be-widely-available-until-next-year. The media overwhelmingly reiterate this sentiment to the public. Many top left-wing voices express they will not trust a Trump-issued vaccine. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/harrris-vaccine-i-would-not-trust-donald-trump-n1239422

November 2020 - Joe Biden is elected 46th President of the United States.

Fall-Winter 2020 - Plenty goes on, none of it related to the "science" we're talking about here.

January 2021 - Joe Biden is inaugurated and is now President.

Winter and early Spring 2021 - Vaccines roll out at a healthy pace, one that President Biden happily takes credit for but was the same pace as from a few weeks before Inauguration.

Spring 2021 - Conservatives begin to express hesitancy at the speed at which the vaccine was rolled out. This hesitation is mocked, not answered by "science" and those who don't trust the COVID vaccine are lumped as one in the same with those who oppose much more established vaccines, such as Hepatitis, Tetanus, Cholera, Smallpox, among others. Again, those with hesitancies are simply mocked, not answered.

Spring 2021 - It remains true that this virus is much more dangerous to the elderly and immunocompromised. However, health "officials and experts" have long warned that healthy youth can still carry the virus and infect others. Guidelines are not being adjusted to reflect that this doesn't matter if the adult is vaccinated.

Spring 2021 - Many purple states are lifting restrictions. A lot of Americans stop wearing masks. Ballgames and concerts begin to resume. And yet the CDC continues to vaguely warn of impending doom.

Spring 2021 - The vaccine gets emergency approval for use in kids as young as 12. Conservatives question the necessity of this, claiming the adults are vaccinated and that this disease is unlikely to harm someone that young. Those people are mocked as antivaxxers. The CDC continues to warn of a "risk" of infection after vaccination, despite that risk being minute and the severity of the cases being significantly lower.

Spring 2021 - Reports of Hydroxychloroquine being used as an effective COVID treatment become well-known. The media pretends they didn't immediately vilify Trump for this suggestion. No follow-up.

Summer 2021 - The only place most states still require a mask is public transport. But you can't ask why. People feel like they need to "ease back into things," so it makes sense to them to wear a mask on a plane. Except you don't. If you're vaccinated, you're fine.

If you didn't read the whole thing, here's a summary. Conservatives don't not "believe science." They want consistency and an explanation for their questions and concerns.

Politicians could gather maskless, but you couldn't

If you have concerns about this particular vaccine, the only possible explanation is that you're a dumb antivaxxer

The vaccine is very effective but you still need to wear a mask in some cases because there's still a risk but if you say there's a risk, no more Twitter or Facebook for you. And I'd be willing to bet that every individual who insists masking is still necessary is vaccinated now.

Hydroxychloroquine was very bad because Trump said its name, but now it's good because Trump isn't saying its name.

Top "scientists and experts" predicted a COVID outbreak after the Tampa Super Bowl celebrations, after the full-capacity Opening Day in Arlington, TX, and as people swarmed beaches. And nothing. And no follow-up or "we were wrong."

You could gather in large numbers if it's for the right reasons.

All of those conflicting points and more have been made in the name of science. And the only conclusion you can reach is that the GOP hate's science because we're all dumb? Get over yourselves.

Well said.

casinterest wrote:

BWIAirport wrote:

… Blame deflection, power tripping, and lies…

Lmao that is EXACTLY what you did to a post with a lot of factual information.
All you do is call people names without even having the decency to read what was written.

BWIAirport wrote:

I would always try to avoid the non-aviation forum, but this post is a hanging slider.
Reading the replies to this post, it becomes clear to me that Democrat voters know as little about the right as they claim the right knows about "reality." I strongly encourage you not to brush off 74 million people as dumb, anti-science, bigoted, etc. Take the time to at least try to understand their point of view and you may learn something. The "holier than thou" superiority complex many on the left seem to carry doesn't make you look as good as you think it does.

Republicans and conservatives as a whole don't "trust the science" because the idea of "the science" since March 2020 has lost any concrete meaning, and look in the mirror if you want to know who to thank.
Let's go through the timeline:

March 2020 - As the impending pandemic grows more evident in its severity, even many conservatives I know took an extremely cautious initial approach because we simply don't know anything yet. As schools and offices begin to close, a well-intended debate is sparked on both sides over the pros and cons of making kids learn in their own homes. A debate that is extremely complex and I'm sure has its own thread somewhere. Epidemiologists begin publishing initial information and "14 days to slow the spread" becomes a rallying cry. Mask mandates begin to be issued. Everyone becomes familiar with a graph showing two curves, one with an initial high spike of cases that far exceeds hospital capacity, and the second a more extended gradual curve that remains within the limits of hospital capacity. Everyone is told and agrees that the latter curve is more desirable.

Mid-Spring 2020 - A partisan divide is beginning to become clear among lockdown ideologies. The left, I believe in good spirit, took the stance that any measure to prevent any death from COVID was necessary. The argument was that the pain from losing a loved one far outweighed the boredom and lack of stimulation from not leaving one's home. In a vacuum and without context, this is a statement that of course makes sense. The right took the stance, particularly as it became clear that this virus disproportionately affected the elderly and immunocompromised, that the negative side affects of the lockdown for young and healthy people was not worth the benefits of preventing them from catching COVID.

Also mid-spring 2020 - President Trump has made clear his stance on lockdowns. So has the soon-to-be-deified Dr. Anthony Fauci. Because the knee-jerk reaction of our institutions (more on that later) is to take the opposite stance of Trump, the best and most "scientific" thing a government could do was shut everything down. This lead to the placement of Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D-NY) on a media pedestal, despite NY getting hit among the hardest of any state in the country. This also led to Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-FL) being re-named "Deathsantis" by people whose mothers tell them they're funny.

Also mid-spring 2020 - Get ready for the "H-word." Yup, Hydroxychloroquine makes its way into the headlines after Trump touts it as a potential cure. Again, that which Trump supports must be evil. So the media and our institutions militarize against Hydroxychloroquine. Everyone pretends Trump said to inject Lysol. A woman in Arizona gives her husband fishtank cleaner that contains Hydroxychloroquine and everyone blames Trump despite the couple being registered Democrats.

Late May 2020 - George Floyd is killed. Mass protests spark throughout the country. People are outdoors, packed shoulder to shoulder, some masked and some not, yelling, singing, and protesting. The WHO then says this is ok and not a threat to spread COVID. Still no outdoor sports, many parks remain closed, you certainly can't go to church, but protesting for this media-approved cause is exempt from COVID restrictions. Many Republicans at this point see straight through the charade of lockdowns.

Summer 2020 - George Floyd protests continue. Also, lockdown protests emerge. Both are outdoors. Only one is media-approved as safe.

Summer 2020 - Top Democrat officials who have instituted strict lockdowns, such as Gov. Gavin Newsome (D-CA) are seen maskless enjoying the company of friends in restaurants, something they don't allow their citizens to do. Remember, politicians think they're better than you. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) gives a late-night "comedy" interview saying how much she loves lockdowns because she gets to stay home and eat ice cream. Meanwhile, unemployment continues to soar as governments make it illegal for many jobs to continue.

Summer 2020 - Many red states, in particular Florida, are open with little to no restrictions. While they experience some rises in cases, the curve chart looks a lot more like the "optimal" curve we were told about in March. But now this is a very bad thing. Goalposts have moved from "14 days to slow the spread" to "let's not exceed hospital capacity" to "any rise in cases, material or immaterial, is unacceptable".
The death rates in FL mirror those in CA for much of the summer, despite polar opposite levels of restriction on gathering size and masking, and despite the population of Florida being much older and theoretically much more susceptible to COVID. But only one of those states is in the headlines every day as evil.

Late summer 2020 - Some optimism begins to emerge regarding vaccines. A couple companies have said they have been working hard and will soon begin trials. Also, Gov. Cuomo's book is a bestseller.

Fall 2020 - Presidential Election debates commence between President Trump and then-D. Nominee Biden. Trump asserts that vaccines will be ready by the end of 2020 and available to most citizens by spring 2021. Immediately "Experts" and "Scientists" come out and insist this is impossible and that Trump is full of it https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/09/16/913560563/cdc-director-says-covid-vaccine-likely-wont-be-widely-available-until-next-year. The media overwhelmingly reiterate this sentiment to the public. Many top left-wing voices express they will not trust a Trump-issued vaccine. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/harrris-vaccine-i-would-not-trust-donald-trump-n1239422

November 2020 - Joe Biden is elected 46th President of the United States.

Fall-Winter 2020 - Plenty goes on, none of it related to the "science" we're talking about here.

January 2021 - Joe Biden is inaugurated and is now President.

Winter and early Spring 2021 - Vaccines roll out at a healthy pace, one that President Biden happily takes credit for but was the same pace as from a few weeks before Inauguration.

Spring 2021 - Conservatives begin to express hesitancy at the speed at which the vaccine was rolled out. This hesitation is mocked, not answered by "science" and those who don't trust the COVID vaccine are lumped as one in the same with those who oppose much more established vaccines, such as Hepatitis, Tetanus, Cholera, Smallpox, among others. Again, those with hesitancies are simply mocked, not answered.

Spring 2021 - It remains true that this virus is much more dangerous to the elderly and immunocompromised. However, health "officials and experts" have long warned that healthy youth can still carry the virus and infect others. Guidelines are not being adjusted to reflect that this doesn't matter if the adult is vaccinated.

Spring 2021 - Many purple states are lifting restrictions. A lot of Americans stop wearing masks. Ballgames and concerts begin to resume. And yet the CDC continues to vaguely warn of impending doom.

Spring 2021 - The vaccine gets emergency approval for use in kids as young as 12. Conservatives question the necessity of this, claiming the adults are vaccinated and that this disease is unlikely to harm someone that young. Those people are mocked as antivaxxers. The CDC continues to warn of a "risk" of infection after vaccination, despite that risk being minute and the severity of the cases being significantly lower.

Spring 2021 - Reports of Hydroxychloroquine being used as an effective COVID treatment become well-known. The media pretends they didn't immediately vilify Trump for this suggestion. No follow-up.

Summer 2021 - The only place most states still require a mask is public transport. But you can't ask why. People feel like they need to "ease back into things," so it makes sense to them to wear a mask on a plane. Except you don't. If you're vaccinated, you're fine.

If you didn't read the whole thing, here's a summary. Conservatives don't not "believe science." They want consistency and an explanation for their questions and concerns.

Politicians could gather maskless, but you couldn't

If you have concerns about this particular vaccine, the only possible explanation is that you're a dumb antivaxxer

The vaccine is very effective but you still need to wear a mask in some cases because there's still a risk but if you say there's a risk, no more Twitter or Facebook for you. And I'd be willing to bet that every individual who insists masking is still necessary is vaccinated now.

Hydroxychloroquine was very bad because Trump said its name, but now it's good because Trump isn't saying its name.

Top "scientists and experts" predicted a COVID outbreak after the Tampa Super Bowl celebrations, after the full-capacity Opening Day in Arlington, TX, and as people swarmed beaches. And nothing. And no follow-up or "we were wrong."

You could gather in large numbers if it's for the right reasons.

All of those conflicting points and more have been made in the name of science. And the only conclusion you can reach is that the GOP hate's science because we're all dumb? Get over yourselves.

Eloquent post but you are conflating science and politics. Your last indented section is flat out politics.

“Science” looks at facts. Politicians (via their advisers who will tend to err towards what’s popular rather than what is necessary, while doing- they think- enough to keep the other side happy) make decisions. It’s why science ends up looking bad. Science is data, facts, test, evaluate, amend. Politics is what can I do to make myself look good right now and how do I put myself in the right position to get voted in again.

Please don’t confuse the two.

BWIAirport wrote:

casinterest wrote:

BWIAirport wrote:

All of those conflicting points and more have been made in the name of science. And the only conclusion you can reach is that the GOP hate's science because we're all dumb? Get over yourselves.

Your copy and paste post highlights a lack of understanding of the scientific method or transmission and what changes when new information comes available.

The scientific method and changing one's views when new information becomes available would explain an evolution in mask mandates, for example, if it became clear that they were or weren't effective. It doesn't explain knee-jerk reactions to call Trump a liar without proof, then realizing he was right on more than a few things. It doesn't explain simultaneously arguing that vaccines are effective and that you should still wear a mask if vaccinated because there's a risk. It doesn't explain largely ignoring the failures of blue lockdown states, and reporting only on the failures of red states without providing context. It doesn't explain giving a green light to protests you like while at the same time vilifying any other mass gathering.
I can follow that argument on the evolution of the left's stance on the vaccine. You doubted it, now you see it works and you like it. Fine. But that flip coincided so perfectly with the inauguration of the new administration you'll have to understand why conservatives don't see it as a good faith evolution of viewpoint, especially considering the rest of the points I mentioned. Also, truly adhering to the scientific method would seemingly involve responding to genuine concerns about the vaccine and not mocking them. It would at the very least take into account the pros and cons of vaccinating young people instead of mocking those who are hesitant. But the stance now is that if you oppose vaccinating any single human of any age above 12 for any reason, it has to be because you're anti-science. And you really don't help yourselves by blocking every Twitter user who posts information that contradicts your point of view. That sort of censorship, without actually responding to the concerns, will only lead people to doubt you.

Actually science explains perfectly well that wearing a mask after vaccination is prudent. It is not yet proven that being vaccinated prevents you catching or passing on Covid. Masks aren’t there for the wearer’s benefit (unless they’re wearing a full-on hazmat kit with suitable filtration and cleaning before removal), they are there to protect others if YOU have it. Even “the best” vaccines are not 100% effective. Scientists know this which is why they recommend masks indoors.

Source: pretty much every news outlet except the ones with a no-mask agenda.

chimborazo wrote:

BWIAirport wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Your copy and paste post highlights a lack of understanding of the scientific method or transmission and what changes when new information comes available.

The scientific method and changing one's views when new information becomes available would explain an evolution in mask mandates, for example, if it became clear that they were or weren't effective. It doesn't explain knee-jerk reactions to call Trump a liar without proof, then realizing he was right on more than a few things. It doesn't explain simultaneously arguing that vaccines are effective and that you should still wear a mask if vaccinated because there's a risk. It doesn't explain largely ignoring the failures of blue lockdown states, and reporting only on the failures of red states without providing context. It doesn't explain giving a green light to protests you like while at the same time vilifying any other mass gathering.
I can follow that argument on the evolution of the left's stance on the vaccine. You doubted it, now you see it works and you like it. Fine. But that flip coincided so perfectly with the inauguration of the new administration you'll have to understand why conservatives don't see it as a good faith evolution of viewpoint, especially considering the rest of the points I mentioned. Also, truly adhering to the scientific method would seemingly involve responding to genuine concerns about the vaccine and not mocking them. It would at the very least take into account the pros and cons of vaccinating young people instead of mocking those who are hesitant. But the stance now is that if you oppose vaccinating any single human of any age above 12 for any reason, it has to be because you're anti-science. And you really don't help yourselves by blocking every Twitter user who posts information that contradicts your point of view. That sort of censorship, without actually responding to the concerns, will only lead people to doubt you.

Actually science explains perfectly well that wearing a mask after vaccination is prudent. It is not yet proven that being vaccinated prevents you catching or passing on Covid. Masks aren’t there for the wearer’s benefit (unless they’re wearing a full-on hazmat kit with suitable filtration and cleaning before removal), they are there to protect others if YOU have it. Even “the best” vaccines are not 100% effective. Scientists know this which is why they recommend masks indoors.

Source: pretty much every news outlet except the ones with a no-mask agenda.

You mind positing a scientific source?
For the record I wear a mask but how you guys arguing here I would love to see actual science since this is what you brought up and then you post “news outlet” as a source.

PixelPilot wrote:

chimborazo wrote:

BWIAirport wrote:

The scientific method and changing one's views when new information becomes available would explain an evolution in mask mandates, for example, if it became clear that they were or weren't effective. It doesn't explain knee-jerk reactions to call Trump a liar without proof, then realizing he was right on more than a few things. It doesn't explain simultaneously arguing that vaccines are effective and that you should still wear a mask if vaccinated because there's a risk. It doesn't explain largely ignoring the failures of blue lockdown states, and reporting only on the failures of red states without providing context. It doesn't explain giving a green light to protests you like while at the same time vilifying any other mass gathering.
I can follow that argument on the evolution of the left's stance on the vaccine. You doubted it, now you see it works and you like it. Fine. But that flip coincided so perfectly with the inauguration of the new administration you'll have to understand why conservatives don't see it as a good faith evolution of viewpoint, especially considering the rest of the points I mentioned. Also, truly adhering to the scientific method would seemingly involve responding to genuine concerns about the vaccine and not mocking them. It would at the very least take into account the pros and cons of vaccinating young people instead of mocking those who are hesitant. But the stance now is that if you oppose vaccinating any single human of any age above 12 for any reason, it has to be because you're anti-science. And you really don't help yourselves by blocking every Twitter user who posts information that contradicts your point of view. That sort of censorship, without actually responding to the concerns, will only lead people to doubt you.

Actually science explains perfectly well that wearing a mask after vaccination is prudent. It is not yet proven that being vaccinated prevents you catching or passing on Covid. Masks aren’t there for the wearer’s benefit (unless they’re wearing a full-on hazmat kit with suitable filtration and cleaning before removal), they are there to protect others if YOU have it. Even “the best” vaccines are not 100% effective. Scientists know this which is why they recommend masks indoors.

Source: pretty much every news outlet except the ones with a no-mask agenda.

You mind positing a scientific source?
For the record I wear a mask but how you guys arguing here I would love to see actual science since this is what you brought up and then you post “news outlet” as a source.

Sure:

http://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

There’s also the “non-scientific”: when we sneeze it’s polite not to do so on people because droplets of whatever you’ve got then land on them.

Covid does not generally cause sneezing but the virus is expelled with moisture from the infected person. So breathing on someone can contain the virus. You wouldn’t sneeze on someone because it’s impolite. I’d rather someone with hay fever sneezed on me than someone with Covid breathed on me.

PixelPilot wrote:

casinterest wrote:

BWIAirport wrote:

… Blame deflection, power tripping, and lies…

Lmao that is EXACTLY what you did to a post with a lot of factual information.
All you do is call people names without even having the decency to read what was written.

Where were the "Facts"? it was a lot of information about why to politically refuse to believe science. Using mostly political figures.
I read what was written before. It was a copy paste job.

chimborazo wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:

chimborazo wrote:

Actually science explains perfectly well that wearing a mask after vaccination is prudent. It is not yet proven that being vaccinated prevents you catching or passing on Covid. Masks aren’t there for the wearer’s benefit (unless they’re wearing a full-on hazmat kit with suitable filtration and cleaning before removal), they are there to protect others if YOU have it. Even “the best” vaccines are not 100% effective. Scientists know this which is why they recommend masks indoors.

Source: pretty much every news outlet except the ones with a no-mask agenda.

You mind positing a scientific source?
For the record I wear a mask but how you guys arguing here I would love to see actual science since this is what you brought up and then you post “news outlet” as a source.

Sure:

http://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

There’s also the “non-scientific”: when we sneeze it’s polite not to do so on people because droplets of whatever you’ve got then land on them.

Covid does not generally cause sneezing but the virus is expelled with moisture from the infected person. So breathing on someone can contain the virus. You wouldn’t sneeze on someone because it’s impolite. I’d rather someone with hay fever sneezed on me than someone with Covid breathed on me.

Cheers.

casinterest wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Lmao that is EXACTLY what you did to a post with a lot of factual information.
All you do is call people names without even having the decency to read what was written.

Where were the "Facts"? it was a lot of information about why to politically refuse to believe science. Using mostly political figures.
I read what was written before. It was a copy paste job.

Things that happenED are considered facts because they were proven to be true. That post is quite accurate. I know it hurts your feelings cause you boil with anti GOP rage but whatever.
The fact that the “science’ behind mask was used for political reasons is mostly why many people have trouble believing it.
The article I was given above states clearly that people should wear masks yet it’s not the case. Concerts, venues open and etc. Those are FACTS that do not go along with the science so tell me how important is science now after all the lockdowns? Only some rich and politicians moan about it while everybody else is scrambling to get back to life and try not to collapse under pile of bills realizing that the states that were more liberal in their approach are actually doing much better economically and in the end this is THE #1 issue for most people. MONEY.

Many politicians caught up and they are opening because they don’t want to keep their population pissed too much. Hard to bullshit at this point when all news from FL show people chilling and having good time. According to science they should not… and?

***EDIT. I honestly believe that it’s not science in general that people are losing faith it but the bullshit inconsistent mainstream media with narrative shifts depending where the wind is blowing is what they deny.

BWIAirport wrote:

[list]Spring 2021 - Reports of Hydroxychloroquine being used as an effective COVID treatment become well-known. The media pretends they didn't immediately vilify Trump for this suggestion. No follow-up.

I'm not sure where you got that information. HCQ has not been part of COVID protocols since the initial exploratory regimens in the spring of 2020. The data does not back up its use.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamane ... le/2779044 -- no different than placebo -- meaning you could've given somebody squirrel farts and the result would be the same.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-77748-x -- "Treating COVID-19 patients with CQ/HCQ did not decrease mortality. even it was increased if AZM was added."

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-re ... d-covid-19

BWIAirport wrote:

Mid-Spring 2020 - A partisan divide is beginning to become clear among lockdown ideologies. The left, I believe in good spirit, took the stance that any measure to prevent any death from COVID was necessary. The argument was that the pain from losing a loved one far outweighed the boredom and lack of stimulation from not leaving one's home. In a vacuum and without context, this is a statement that of course makes sense. The right took the stance, particularly as it became clear that this virus disproportionately affected the elderly and immunocompromised, that the negative side affects of the lockdown for young and healthy people was not worth the benefits of preventing them from catching COVID.

Had to stop here because this is a serious conflation of science and politics. It is incorrect to call lockdown strategy an 'ideology' - this was what people with expertise in public health said would be necessary to maintain the functioning and capacity of the healthcare system, based on the epidemiological characteristics of COVID. It just so happens that politicians and citizens on the left were more inclined to accept this expert advice and policies that supported such suggested actions. The view 'from the right' you ascribe focused narrowly on who is being affected and not on how to keep the healthcare system from being overwhelmed in a country with high mobility and freedom of movement at all ages. Not to mention the medical point that the US is 37% obese, and being overweight (and especially obesity) were identified early as a significant COVID comorbidity.

c933103 wrote:

The million dollar question is why the drop, especially when compared with 1975 society

During the Cold War, US states devoted a lot of educational investment to math and science. There was an understanding that staying ahead of the USSR and making further gains in energy and aerospace required a continuous stream of engineering and scientific talent. Some of that talent stream shifted off to IT and finance in the 1980s as many companies changed focus from long to short term gains and provided major incentives to people with advanced degrees. It's too easy to blame COVID singlehandedly - this divestment from a scientific and critical thinking focus in public education has been a decades-long process. The willingness by millions to accept unscientific conspiracy theories following 9/11 showed that these sentiments were already alive and well 20 years ago.

BWIAirport wrote:

Also mid-spring 2020 - Get ready for the "H-word." Yup, Hydroxychloroquine makes its way into the headlines after Trump touts it as a potential cure. Again, that which Trump supports must be evil. So the media and our institutions militarize against Hydroxychloroquine. Everyone pretends Trump said to inject Lysol.

Here’s Trump’s exact words:

"I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? As you see, it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that."

Most media reported that Trump suggested the use of disinfectant, which is entirely true. I’ve never heard the term disinfectant used to describe anything but household cleaner.

Spring 2021 - Reports of Hydroxychloroquine being used as an effective COVID treatment become well-known. The media pretends they didn't immediately vilify Trump for this suggestion. No follow-up.

Where? Here’s a study published just days ago from Norway showing no Hydroxychloroquine has no effect on Covid patients.

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M21-0653

All of those conflicting points and more have been made in the name of science. And the only conclusion you can reach is that the GOP hate's science because we're all dumb? Get over yourselves.

Most of your post was just political talking points and attacks on mainstream media you dislike that could’ve come from Fox News. There was very little “science” in it.

Scientific facts are ever changing, but for the most part Covid is deadlier than the flu, masks work, vaccines work, Hydroxychloroquine doesn’t.

Aaron747 wrote:

c933103 wrote:

The million dollar question is why the drop, especially when compared with 1975 society

During the Cold War, US states devoted a lot of educational investment to math and science. There was an understanding that staying ahead of the USSR and making further gains in energy and aerospace required a continuous stream of engineering and scientific talent. Some of that talent stream shifted off to IT and finance in the 1980s as many companies changed focus from long to short term gains and provided major incentives to people with advanced degrees. It's too easy to blame COVID singlehandedly - this divestment from a scientific and critical thinking focus in public education has been a decades-long process. The willingness by millions to accept unscientific conspiracy theories following 9/11 showed that these sentiments were already alive and well 20 years ago.

I’ll also give the drop in Republican belief in science to their campaign to ignore climate change. Right wing media and politicians have been calling climate scientists liars and frauds for 2 decades. This must have an effect on the nearly 50% who vote that way.

PixelPilot wrote:

casinterest wrote:

PixelPilot wrote:

Lmao that is EXACTLY what you did to a post with a lot of factual information.
All you do is call people names without even having the decency to read what was written.

Where were the "Facts"? it was a lot of information about why to politically refuse to believe science. Using mostly political figures.
I read what was written before. It was a copy paste job.

Things that happenED are considered facts because they were proven to be true. That post is quite accurate. I know it hurts your feelings cause you boil with anti GOP rage but whatever.
The fact that the “science’ behind mask was used for political reasons is mostly why many people have trouble believing it.
The article I was given above states clearly that people should wear masks yet it’s not the case. Concerts, venues open and etc. Those are FACTS that do not go along with the science so tell me how important is science now after all the lockdowns? Only some rich and politicians moan about it while everybody else is scrambling to get back to life and try not to collapse under pile of bills realizing that the states that were more liberal in their approach are actually doing much better economically and in the end this is THE #1 issue for most people. MONEY.

Many politicians caught up and they are opening because they don’t want to keep their population pissed too much. Hard to bullshit at this point when all news from FL show people chilling and having good time. According to science they should not… and?

***EDIT. I honestly believe that it’s not science in general that people are losing faith it but the bullshit inconsistent mainstream media with narrative shifts depending where the wind is blowing is what they deny.

The issue is that the science is real. Politics is what isn't. and far too many watch really bad networks that are interested in selling fear, lies and viagra, to anyone that will listen. The masks were needed until we got the vaccines, especially when in close quarters. The people at the beaches were fine and always were going to be. The issue was in classes, churches, and entertainment centers where people mingle.

Even now we are seeing a disastrous rise in cases where people ignored the science. Having no faith in science doesn't make it less real, and the consequences are very real as we are seeing now with climate change, and covid.

People that think Money is the #1 issue fail to grasp that many "Red States" are doing well because they provide basic materials. When the pandemic ends and travel starts occurring, the red states will be left behind.

Aaron747 wrote:

BWIAirport wrote:

Mid-Spring 2020 - A partisan divide is beginning to become clear among lockdown ideologies. The left, I believe in good spirit, took the stance that any measure to prevent any death from COVID was necessary. The argument was that the pain from losing a loved one far outweighed the boredom and lack of stimulation from not leaving one's home. In a vacuum and without context, this is a statement that of course makes sense. The right took the stance, particularly as it became clear that this virus disproportionately affected the elderly and immunocompromised, that the negative side affects of the lockdown for young and healthy people was not worth the benefits of preventing them from catching COVID.

Had to stop here because this is a serious conflation of science and politics. It is incorrect to call lockdown strategy an 'ideology' - this was what people with expertise in public health said would be necessary to maintain the functioning and capacity of the healthcare system, based on the epidemiological characteristics of COVID. It just so happens that politicians and citizens on the left were more inclined to accept this expert advice and policies that supported such suggested actions. The view 'from the right' you ascribe focused narrowly on who is being affected and not on how to keep the healthcare system from being overwhelmed in a country with high mobility and freedom of movement at all ages. Not to mention the medical point that the US is 37% obese, and being overweight (and especially obesity) were identified early as a significant COVID comorbidity.

Can we also add that at least at the party level, "partisan divide" regarding lockdowns was by and large an American thing...and whatever couple correct points Trump may have made, the rest of the world didn't implement whatever measures they did as part of a liberal conspiracy to make Trump look bad. He did that all on his own prancing around on television every night bloviating about things of which he had absolutely no clue. Then he stepped in it with his disinfectant remark -- and you know he stepped in it because he stopped giving press conferences after that. IMHO that's what cost him the election -- we needed a leader who knew when to shut up, check their indulgent impulses, and lead in a time of crisis, and he couldn't do that that.

I'll assume those "45% of GOP" respondents are the same ones that voted for Biden.

Really sad that the right in the U.S. and republicans are so anti science and seem to fear science. Science is the reason we have vaccines and actual data and knowledge. Australia is a conservative country, but their politicians have been much more receptive to science. Red states have the lowest vaccination rates in general. We need to vote advocate for more funding in education, science and critical thinking!!

Pi7472000 wrote:

Really sad that the right in the U.S. and republicans are so anti science and seem to fear science. Science is the reason we have vaccines and actual data and knowledge. Australia is a conservative country, but their politicians have been much more receptive to science. Red states have the lowest vaccination rates in general. We need to vote advocate for more funding in education, science and critical thinking!!

Conservative doesn't mean anti=science, unless that science threatens the business interest of your major donors viz. the current Australian government and the mining and petroleum industries. Apart from that egregious issue (that largely came about as an economic wedge to win power), our conservatives reamin a political party rather than an evangelical cult (although our current PM seems to want to take it there.

sierrakilo44 wrote:

BWIAirport wrote:

Also mid-spring 2020 - Get ready for the "H-word." Yup, Hydroxychloroquine makes its way into the headlines after Trump touts it as a potential cure. Again, that which Trump supports must be evil. So the media and our institutions militarize against Hydroxychloroquine. Everyone pretends Trump said to inject Lysol.

Here’s Trump’s exact words:

"I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning? As you see, it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that."

Most media reported that Trump suggested the use of disinfectant, which is entirely true. I’ve never heard the term disinfectant used to describe anything but household cleaner.

Spring 2021 - Reports of Hydroxychloroquine being used as an effective COVID treatment become well-known. The media pretends they didn't immediately vilify Trump for this suggestion. No follow-up.

Where? Here’s a study published just days ago from Norway showing no Hydroxychloroquine has no effect on Covid patients.

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M21-0653

All of those conflicting points and more have been made in the name of science. And the only conclusion you can reach is that the GOP hate's science because we're all dumb? Get over yourselves.

Most of your post was just political talking points and attacks on mainstream media you dislike that could’ve come from Fox News. There was very little “science” in it.

Scientific facts are ever changing, but for the most part Covid is deadlier than the flu, masks work, vaccines work, Hydroxychloroquine doesn’t.

Actually what Trump was a lot less clear than you suggest.

He spent several minutes waffling and rambling. Sounded as if he was drunk or losing it.

Perhaps if he had discussed these notions of his with the professionals first he would have come up with a statement that would be undersandable.