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alfa164
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:50 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
Jeez all this thread proves is we need more education on LGBT issues in society.


Actually, what we really need is more respect for other people and the choices they make. Nothing this flight attendant has done is harmful to me, to you, or to anyone else. Whining about someone deciding to wear a dress - whether a male, female, or someone who chooses to identify as neither - degrades only the person doing the complaining. Most people - at least, those who have graduated from dragging their knuckles on the ground while moving - have more important things to think about.
 
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seb146
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:44 am

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

I didn't say it was necessary to be feminine and attractive to be a flight attendant. I said a beard and masculinity are incompatible and tacky combined with a feminine FA dress uniform.

Good for him or her or whatever pronoun we're supposed to use. (S)he is a performer and should be judged on their talent, whereas a FA is largely a brand representative when they're not performing safety duties which is the majority of their time. I will also add that drag queen you mentioned is by definition an entertainer and we've already discussed the entertainment value of this male FA's antic, because according to his friend he has no gender identity issue.


Which again begs the question: if this is a humorous moment between two colleagues and the airline doesn’t care, and has policies in place to cover such situations: why do you care if you don’t work there?


I don't care as much as you think I care, but the fact that it is humorous might have something to do with it.


You started a thread about it. You care. Now the question is why do you care so much as to start a thread? I start thread about things I care passionately about. Some people start thread about things that "oh, isn't that interesting" and post. Some people start threads about "this has been going for years so here you go!" So why do you care so much?
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:25 am

afcjets wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
What's happening here is that you now have a gender/identity obsessed demographic who see him identifying as she, and see her as courageous.


Braybuddy wrote:
But you also have other demographics who just see him as someone self-obsessed who doesn't take his job too seriously, which they wouldn't see as being very professional.


Side note: as flight attendants, we are no longer allowed to address our passengers as “ladies and gentleman”, but instead use gender-neutral terms.
I am not speaking for the company, and I love my job and I love Luis… he just has a sense of humor."

https://www.godlikeproductions.com/foru ... 847455/pg1


A man in a dress with facial hair is just plain stupid, but if that's his thing go for it, what really offends me is this bullshit, why replace ladies and gentleman with gender neutral terms, for the vast vast majority of people ladies and gentleman is 100% spot on, this is right up there with utter stupidity like birth parent, chest milk, and one I heard yesterday replacing niece, nephew with nibling, chibling, or sibkid (sibling’s kid).
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:35 am

Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
Scottish men, like those in the link, have been wearing dresses for several hundred years and I presume that they have done so with great honour too.
https://youtu.be/P2gDkcpYnMc


Tell a Scots man he's wearing a dress and you'll be wearing his fist, it's also not a dress, its not even a skirt, its a kilt.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:15 am

Kiwirob wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Braybuddy wrote:
What's happening here is that you now have a gender/identity obsessed demographic who see him identifying as she, and see her as courageous.


Braybuddy wrote:
But you also have other demographics who just see him as someone self-obsessed who doesn't take his job too seriously, which they wouldn't see as being very professional.


Side note: as flight attendants, we are no longer allowed to address our passengers as “ladies and gentleman”, but instead use gender-neutral terms.
I am not speaking for the company, and I love my job and I love Luis… he just has a sense of humor."

https://www.godlikeproductions.com/foru ... 847455/pg1


A man in a dress with facial hair is just plain stupid, but if that's his thing go for it, what really offends me is this bullshit, why replace ladies and gentleman with gender neutral terms, for the vast vast majority of people ladies and gentleman is 100% spot on, this is right up there with utter stupidity like birth parent, chest milk, and one I heard yesterday replacing niece, nephew with nibling, chibling, or sibkid (sibling’s kid).


Sibkid?? :rotfl: Now I have heard everything
 
afcjets
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:13 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
C’mon that’s pretty offensive. She has said she uses female pronouns when presenting as female, so you should respect that and not pretend she is a “whatever”. It’s de-humanising.

How would you like it if someone called you by an insulting term, and then you asked them to stop and they refused, saying “I’m just using my freedom of speech, don’t be offended”.

Jeez all this thread proves is we need more education on LGBT issues in society.


She didn't ask me to stop and I wouldn't refuse. It might surprise you but I had never heard of Conchita Wurst or even Eurovision. So I did a search online. Here's what wikipedia says:

"Thomas Neuwirth (born 6 November 1988) is an Austrian singer, recording artist, and drag queen who is known for HIS stage persona Conchita Wurst."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conchita_Wurst

Here's how Britannica defines drag queen:

"Drag queen, a man who dresses in women’s clothes and performs before an audience....dragging involves performance whereby the intent is an undoing of gender norms through doing (or dressing) the part of the opposite sex...The authenticity of femininity is always undermined by a drag queen’s roughness, which often includes a vulgar stage presence and desire to shock. The third aspect of drag is premised on the belief in gender fluidity. Dragging is intended to make this fluidity visible through performance.'

https://www.britannica.com/topic/drag-queen

Even on his own website, he is presenting as a man or mostly a man in almost every picture.

http://conchitawurst.com/

Still, I wasn't going to assume he prefers being called a man, so that is why I said he or she or whatever pronoun we're supposed to use. If he wants me to call him a she, great, but I'm likely going to slip if I see her and she looks exactly like a man like she does on her own website.
 
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seb146
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:54 pm

afcjets wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:
C’mon that’s pretty offensive. She has said she uses female pronouns when presenting as female, so you should respect that and not pretend she is a “whatever”. It’s de-humanising.

How would you like it if someone called you by an insulting term, and then you asked them to stop and they refused, saying “I’m just using my freedom of speech, don’t be offended”.

Jeez all this thread proves is we need more education on LGBT issues in society.


She didn't ask me to stop and I wouldn't refuse. It might surprise you but I had never heard of Conchita Wurst or even Eurovision. So I did a search online. Here's what wikipedia says:

"Thomas Neuwirth (born 6 November 1988) is an Austrian singer, recording artist, and drag queen who is known for HIS stage persona Conchita Wurst."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conchita_Wurst

Here's how Britannica defines drag queen:

"Drag queen, a man who dresses in women’s clothes and performs before an audience....dragging involves performance whereby the intent is an undoing of gender norms through doing (or dressing) the part of the opposite sex...The authenticity of femininity is always undermined by a drag queen’s roughness, which often includes a vulgar stage presence and desire to shock. The third aspect of drag is premised on the belief in gender fluidity. Dragging is intended to make this fluidity visible through performance.'

https://www.britannica.com/topic/drag-queen

Even on his own website, he is presenting as a man or mostly a man in almost every picture.

http://conchitawurst.com/

Still, I wasn't going to assume he prefers being called a man, so that is why I said he or she or whatever pronoun we're supposed to use. If he wants me to call him a she, great, but I'm likely going to slip if I see her and she looks exactly like a man like she does on her own website.


But why is this such a hot button issue with you, AFC?

I would take exception with "a drag queen's roughness" part of the definition. Many are very soft and feminine. I have seen my share of drag shows, not just Drag Race on TV. They may sound like men, but that is where the similarity ends!
 
afcjets
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Mon Jul 19, 2021 7:58 pm

seb146 wrote:
But why is this such a hot button issue with you, AFC?

I would take exception with "a drag queen's roughness" part of the definition. Many are very soft and feminine. I have seen my share of drag shows, not just Drag Race on TV. They may sound like men, but that is where the similarity ends!


It's not, I mean it's not like an election was stolen or anything. However, I don't like the direction the country is headed and I think this might be a tipping point. This is the first time I have ever seen a European or someone from the developed eastern hemisphere scold the American left and it's entertaining because I have observed for decades the left's preoccupation with what the rest of the world, particularly Europe, thinks of us, and how they keep saying we're an embarrassment to the rest of the world, and they of course mean the conservatives, not them. Now the people the left has been trying to impress for decades is basically saying they're embarrassed for them. I realize it's only a few people who posted here but I'm sure many people in their parts of the world would have similiar reactions.

I am also passionate about the airline industry and while flying is obviously not as special as it was in previous decades, I still don't like seeing yet another institution (especially one that meant a lot to me) get hijacked by the far left and SJWs with their social experiments.
 
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seb146
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:14 pm

afcjets wrote:
seb146 wrote:
But why is this such a hot button issue with you, AFC?

I would take exception with "a drag queen's roughness" part of the definition. Many are very soft and feminine. I have seen my share of drag shows, not just Drag Race on TV. They may sound like men, but that is where the similarity ends!


It's not, I mean it's not like an election was stolen or anything. However, I don't like the direction the country is headed and I think this might be a tipping point. This is the first time I have ever seen a European or someone from the developed eastern hemisphere scold the American left and it's entertaining because I have observed for decades the left's preoccupation with what the rest of the world, particularly Europe, thinks of us, and how they keep saying we're an embarrassment to the rest of the world, and they of course mean the conservatives, not them. Now the people the left has been trying to impress for decades is basically saying they're embarrassed for them. I realize it's only a few people who posted here but I'm sure many people in their parts of the world would have similiar reactions.

I am also passionate about the airline industry and while flying is obviously not as special as it was in previous decades, I still don't like seeing yet another institution (especially one that meant a lot to me) get hijacked by the far left and SJWs with their social experiments.


wow... where to start....

First of all by not derailing the thread.

So, the same group of people who want the government out of their lives get all pearl clutchy when people do whatever they want and it does not fit into their own personal belief system. I have said it before and I will say it again:

A man wearing a skirt has zero impact on my life. If a man wants to wear a skirt, so what? And if he has a job to do and wants to wear a skirt while doing it, so what? If he can get me out of an aircraft in an emergency and wants to wear a skirt, so what? How does that make your life or my life worth any less? If some guy wants to wear a skirt and do a job, let him.

Times are changing. We are understanding that people can do things and look how they want. So what?
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:36 pm

I think the clue lies in the word: uniform. A smart, well-tailored uniform is important for a company's image . . . this is why they exist! And seeing groups of similarly turned-out employees looks professional, which is important in the airline industry. I don't think this will ever change. Sure you will have experiments, such as some armies trying to be progressive in the '60s and '70s by allowing their soldiers to wear long hair. That didn't work out as planned, though if male soldiers want to wear their hair longer they have to wear hair nets. Once you start bending the rules, where do you stop?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:29 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
I think the clue lies in the word: uniform. A smart, well-tailored uniform is important for a company's image . . . this is why they exist! And seeing groups of similarly turned-out employees looks professional, which is important in the airline industry. I don't think this will ever change. Sure you will have experiments, such as some armies trying to be progressive in the '60s and '70s by allowing their soldiers to wear long hair. That didn't work out as planned, though if male soldiers want to wear their hair longer they have to wear hair nets. Once you start bending the rules, where do you stop?


Except nobody’s bending the rules here - the airline has a policy saying crews can opt for the opposite gender’s uniform, and if they do so, they have to wear it correctly and completely.
 
alfa164
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:58 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Except nobody’s bending the rules here - the airline has a policy saying crews can opt for the opposite gender’s uniform, and if they do so, they have to wear it correctly and completely.


If JetBlue were really creative - like the "old" Southwest Airlines - I could see them making a commercial, starting with some of the old black-and-white "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" footage, and culminating with a glimpse of the FA who seems to be so important to some posters, followed with this message:

"Bigots? We don't need no stinkin' bigots!"


B6, get in touch and I will let you know where to send my royalty check...

;)
 
afcjets
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:08 am

alfa164 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Except nobody’s bending the rules here - the airline has a policy saying crews can opt for the opposite gender’s uniform, and if they do so, they have to wear it correctly and completely.


If JetBlue were really creative - like the "old" Southwest Airlines - I could see them making a commercial, starting with some of the old black-and-white "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" footage, and culminating with a glimpse of the FA who seems to be so important to some posters, followed with this message:

"Bigots? We don't need no stinkin' bigots!"


B6, get in touch and I will let you know where to send my royalty check...

;)


Even Ed Bastian isn't that stupid.
 
FlyEndeavorAir
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:55 am

alfa164 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Except nobody’s bending the rules here - the airline has a policy saying crews can opt for the opposite gender’s uniform, and if they do so, they have to wear it correctly and completely.


If JetBlue were really creative - like the "old" Southwest Airlines - I could see them making a commercial, starting with some of the old black-and-white "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" footage, and culminating with a glimpse of the FA who seems to be so important to some posters, followed with this message:

"Bigots? We don't need no stinkin' bigots!"


B6, get in touch and I will let you know where to send my royalty check...

;)


After witnessing their operation go to S&it the other day at HPN from my airline counter they need all the passengers who are still willing to give money to them, bigots and all.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:31 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Except nobody’s bending the rules here - the airline has a policy saying crews can opt for the opposite gender’s uniform, and if they do so, they have to wear it correctly and completely.

That's up to them then, but I can't see many others following. I doubt it came out of nowhere. If a company wants to do it, let them go ahead, but I don't believe it is for employees, government or anybody to dictate a company uniform. The rot set in IMHO when airlines allowed female FAs to wear trousers. I have yet to see a female FA who looks good in them. Probably the worst example I have seen was on Delta several years ago. On the airbridge I passed what I thought was an engineer as we boarded (buzz cut, zero makeup, very overweight and wearing trousers). To my surprise "he" was actually a female FA in our section. She looked as if she could perform engine changes single-handed :roll: . Apart from the look, I wondered how anyone so overweight would perfrom in an emergency. Fair play to Ryanair, who have a smart and very defined male and female uniform, and seem to be sticking to it.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:52 am

Braybuddy wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Except nobody’s bending the rules here - the airline has a policy saying crews can opt for the opposite gender’s uniform, and if they do so, they have to wear it correctly and completely.

That's up to them then, but I can't see many others following. I doubt it came out of nowhere. If a company wants to do it, let them go ahead, but I don't believe it is for employees, government or anybody to dictate a company uniform. The rot set in IMHO when airlines allowed
female FAs to wear trousers. I have yet to see a female FA who looks good in them. Probably the worst example I have seen was on Delta several years ago. On the airbridge I passed what I thought was an engineer as we boarded (buzz cut, zero makeup, very overweight and wearing trousers). To my surprise "he" was actually a female FA in our section. She looked as if she could perform engine changes single-handed :roll: . Apart from the look, I wondered how anyone so overweight would perfrom in an emergency. Fair play to Ryanair, who have a smart and very defined male and female uniform, and seem to be sticking to it.


In principle I agree with the second part. Taking care of oneself and being physically able to perform duties is far more relevant to the FA job description IMO than how one wears the uniform.
 
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seb146
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:24 am

afcjets wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Except nobody’s bending the rules here - the airline has a policy saying crews can opt for the opposite gender’s uniform, and if they do so, they have to wear it correctly and completely.


If JetBlue were really creative - like the "old" Southwest Airlines - I could see them making a commercial, starting with some of the old black-and-white "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" footage, and culminating with a glimpse of the FA who seems to be so important to some posters, followed with this message:

"Bigots? We don't need no stinkin' bigots!"


B6, get in touch and I will let you know where to send my royalty check...

;)


Even Ed Bastian isn't that stupid.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlO1fGKC5K8

just popped up on my "suggested for you" on Youtube
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:28 am

Kiwirob wrote:
Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
Scottish men, like those in the link, have been wearing dresses for several hundred years and I presume that they have done so with great honour too.
https://youtu.be/P2gDkcpYnMc


Tell a Scots man he's wearing a dress and you'll be wearing his fist, it's also not a dress, its not even a skirt, its a kilt.


It's a kilt yes, but a kilt is a Scottish dress.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/kilt

point is still that men wearing dresses/skirts and similar clothing isn't something new but rather something that has been happening for many hundred years.
 
afcjets
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:40 am

seb146 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

If JetBlue were really creative - like the "old" Southwest Airlines - I could see them making a commercial, starting with some of the old black-and-white "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" footage, and culminating with a glimpse of the FA who seems to be so important to some posters, followed with this message:

"Bigots? We don't need no stinkin' bigots!"


B6, get in touch and I will let you know where to send my royalty check...

;)


Even Ed Bastian isn't that stupid.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlO1fGKC5K8

just popped up on my "suggested for you" on Youtube


I guess you're post sorta both proves and undermines my point lol. While the video is mildly entertaining (perhaps moreso if you know who those guys are), IMO it detracts from the important safety information. That's the first time I watched a safety video and I have no idea what kind of plane it was or how many or where the exits are. It's also way overdone (but most safety videos are now) and clearly trying to make a statement. IMO if your message is inclusivity and you're sincere about it, the viewer shouldn't be able to tell that was your intent. It's almost as if these people are being used as props and there's too many of them.
 
CaptHadley
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:12 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

Tell a Scots man he's wearing a dress and you'll be wearing his fist, it's also not a dress, its not even a skirt, its a kilt.


It's a kilt yes, but a kilt is a Scottish dress.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/kilt

point is still that men wearing dresses/skirts and similar clothing isn't something new but rather something that has been happening for many hundred years.


A kilt is technically a dress, but you wouldn't call it one in Scotland.


I have a kilt, the same kilt as Alan is wearing.

Image



Image


What a cute kilt, do you have the purse as well?

So, which one of these "scots men" are going to be having me wear his fist? I'm thinking they're all heading to an accountant seminar. Rob, i'm 6'05" 275 pounds, spent 5 years in Golden Gloves. I think I can handle myself ;)

Still wondering though why afcjets is in such a snicker over this, complaining awfully hard.
 
FGITD
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:03 pm

CaptHadley wrote:

Still wondering though why afcjets is in such a snicker over this, complaining awfully hard.


It’s been a fascinating thread to watch for exactly that reason. Even working for an airline, right now every single FA working over the US could be wearing a dress, and it would have absolutely no impact on my life.

And yet for posters who frequently complain about the woke, hysterical left…there are posts here that are quite literally saying that this male FA wearing a dress is indicative of the downfall of western civilization. I mean…WHAT?!

That said I think the gorilla suited FA idea that’s come up a few times is absolutely worth revisiting…
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:27 pm

Wait 'till they bring back Hot Pants!!

Maybe the FA is stretching other boundaries by working at Hooters (as a server) on his days off.
 
afcjets
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:26 pm

FGITD wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:
Still wondering though why afcjets is in such a snicker over this, complaining awfully hard.

It’s been a fascinating thread to watch for exactly that reason. Even working for an airline, right now every single FA working over the US could be wearing a dress, and it would have absolutely no impact on my life.

And yet for posters who frequently complain about the woke, hysterical left…there are posts here that are quite literally saying that this male FA wearing a dress is indicative of the downfall of western civilization. I mean…WHAT?!

That said I think the gorilla suited FA idea that’s come up a few times is absolutely worth revisiting…


Not really, I am just responding to most of the posts, especially because it's easy, not to mention I am the one who posted it.
I actually think this male FA is doing a great thing by illustrating how ridiculous this policy is, and his friend basically admitted that. If he goes out in public when he's off duty dressing like a woman, I will admit I was wrong. IMO he looks like a pig and no gorilla suit is needed. We can see his hairy arms, something no one would even notice if he were wearing the WN male FA uniform with a short sleeve shirt. I doubt he is the image Jetblue wants to project, but they asked for it.
 
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seb146
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:21 pm

afcjets wrote:
FGITD wrote:
CaptHadley wrote:
Still wondering though why afcjets is in such a snicker over this, complaining awfully hard.

It’s been a fascinating thread to watch for exactly that reason. Even working for an airline, right now every single FA working over the US could be wearing a dress, and it would have absolutely no impact on my life.

And yet for posters who frequently complain about the woke, hysterical left…there are posts here that are quite literally saying that this male FA wearing a dress is indicative of the downfall of western civilization. I mean…WHAT?!

That said I think the gorilla suited FA idea that’s come up a few times is absolutely worth revisiting…


Not really, I am just responding to most of the posts, especially because it's easy, not to mention I am the one who posted it.
I actually think this male FA is doing a great thing by illustrating how ridiculous this policy is, and his friend basically admitted that. If he goes out in public when he's off duty dressing like a woman, I will admit I was wrong. IMO he looks like a pig and no gorilla suit is needed. We can see his hairy arms, something no one would even notice if he were wearing the WN male FA uniform with a short sleeve shirt. I doubt he is the image Jetblue wants to project, but they asked for it.


Gay men are accepting but also very judgy and catty. I guarantee if a hairy man were to wear a WN male FA shirt, there would be comments and looks. We would notice. We would also forget about it as soon as we left the flight.

As far as the DL safety video, it shows people from all over the human spectrum work for DL. I have flown them once. I never thought to ask about FA genders or ethnicity. They were there to help us, if needed, as we flew 4.5 hours over open water.
 
AirframeAS
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:54 am

AirframeAS wrote:
Maybe the flight attendant in question is transgender. Who knows.

I bet he didn't show up to his interview like that.[/quote]

Why does that matter? Again, who cares.

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