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afcjets
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Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:15 pm

This doesn't surprise me at all but I think this is totally unprofessional and I think this guy is just doing it for attention. I wonder if the pilots really will stage walkouts. I bet some families with small children have.


https://mobile.twitter.com/johncardillo ... 14724?s=20
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FA to wears dresses

Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:18 pm

afcjets wrote:
This doesn't surprise me at all but I think this is totally unprofessional and this guy is doing it for attention. I wonder if the pilots really will stage walkouts. I bet some families with small children have.


https://mobile.twitter.com/johncardillo ... 14724?s=20

A walkout because of a persons choice of clothes? What’s the issue?

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
chimborazo
Posts: 439
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FA to wears dresses

Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:35 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
afcjets wrote:
This doesn't surprise me at all but I think this is totally unprofessional and this guy is doing it for attention. I wonder if the pilots really will stage walkouts. I bet some families with small children have.


https://mobile.twitter.com/johncardillo ... 14724?s=20

A walkout because of a persons choice of clothes? What’s the issue?

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I was surprised years ago on a United flight when I couldn’t tell the crew from anyone else because they were dressed in easy clothes!

Who cares what people care… the issue comes when you don’t know what to call someone. Is he a Sir or a Maam? Some won’t like this but there are precedents for a reason.

I couldn’t give a flying fig what the the person serving me looks like (good thing as I fly BA a lot!) but would like to be able to identify what to call a uniformed member of staff on a flight by the right thing. Yes… pilots wear the same clothes… that one is easy. But a bloke wearing a skirt is harder.
 
chimborazo
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FA to wears dresses

Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:37 pm

chimborazo wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
afcjets wrote:
This doesn't surprise me at all but I think this is totally unprofessional and this guy is doing it for attention. I wonder if the pilots really will stage walkouts. I bet some families with small children have.


https://mobile.twitter.com/johncardillo ... 14724?s=20

A walkout because of a persons choice of clothes? What’s the issue?

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I was surprised years ago on a United flight when I couldn’t tell the crew from anyone else because they were dressed in easy clothes!

Who cares what people care… the issue comes when you don’t know what to call someone. Is he a Sir or a Maam? Some won’t like this but there are precedents for a reason.

I couldn’t give a flying fig what the the person serving me looks like (good thing as I fly BA a lot!) but would like to be able to identify what to call a uniformed member of staff on a flight by the right thing. Yes… pilots wear the same clothes… that one is easy. But a bloke wearing a skirt is harder.


Edited: it was Continental, not United!
 
N757ST
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:43 pm

afcjets wrote:
This doesn't surprise me at all but I think this is totally unprofessional and I think this guy is just doing it for attention. I wonder if the pilots really will stage walkouts. I bet some families with small children have.


https://mobile.twitter.com/johncardillo ... 14724?s=20



Lol, no the pilots will not walk out because a male flight attendant wore a dress.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:45 pm

chimborazo wrote:
Who cares what people care… the issue comes when you don’t know what to call someone.


My daughter is 5, when she doesn’t know what to call someone (another 5year old she just met at the park) she just asks them, if you can’t grasp that same concept that a 5 year old does then I would suggest you shouldn’t be on a plane unaccompanied.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
chimborazo
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:52 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
Who cares what people care… the issue comes when you don’t know what to call someone.


My daughter is 5, when she doesn’t know what to call someone (another 5year old she just met at the park) she just asks them, if you can’t grasp that same concept that a 5 year old does then I would suggest you shouldn’t be on a plane unaccompanied.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Nice.

She was probably asking for their name… not whether to call them Sir or Ma’am or whatever. Your post has no correlation with dealing with someone in a professional capacity.

It may seem strange to some, but some others of us are not five years of age and like to be polite and know in advance how to engage someone. This doesn’t help.
 
flipdewaf
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Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:09 pm

chimborazo wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
Who cares what people care… the issue comes when you don’t know what to call someone.


My daughter is 5, when she doesn’t know what to call someone (another 5year old she just met at the park) she just asks them, if you can’t grasp that same concept that a 5 year old does then I would suggest you shouldn’t be on a plane unaccompanied.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Nice.

She was probably asking for their name… not whether to call them Sir or Ma’am or whatever. Your post has no correlation with dealing with someone in a professional capacity.

It may seem strange to some, but some others of us are not five years of age and like to be polite and know in advance how to engage someone. This doesn’t help.

Who knows how 5 year olds address each other, depends on the day quite often sometimes it’s princess elsa and sometimes it’s the dragon warrior.

We can’t always know in advance, that’s completely stupid. Do all doctors wear special signs? Do all religious folks with different honorifics have a sign on their heads?

If it is unclear you can just ask “excuse me would you like me to address you as ma’am or sir?” I really can’t see the issue with that other than fear of accepting ones ignorance.

Fred


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chimborazo
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:51 pm

flipdewaf wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:

My daughter is 5, when she doesn’t know what to call someone (another 5year old she just met at the park) she just asks them, if you can’t grasp that same concept that a 5 year old does then I would suggest you shouldn’t be on a plane unaccompanied.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Nice.

She was probably asking for their name… not whether to call them Sir or Ma’am or whatever. Your post has no correlation with dealing with someone in a professional capacity.

It may seem strange to some, but some others of us are not five years of age and like to be polite and know in advance how to engage someone. This doesn’t help.

Who knows how 5 year olds address each other, depends on the day quite often sometimes it’s princess elsa and sometimes it’s the dragon warrior.

We can’t always know in advance, that’s completely stupid. Do all doctors wear special signs? Do all religious folks with different honorifics have a sign on their heads?

If it is unclear you can just ask “excuse me would you like me to address you as ma’am or sir?” I really can’t see the issue with that other than fear of accepting ones ignorance.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


So why reference the 5 year olds? You’ve elaborated that your point on this is irrelevant.

I’m probably one of the least ignorant people you’ve never met… and, as such, I like clarity.

As I review your posts… point conceded. Hopefully we won’t read about someone on these boards getting persecuted one day for “not knowing who they are addressing”.

It just needs to be clear
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:09 pm

chimborazo wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
chimborazo wrote:

Nice.

She was probably asking for their name… not whether to call them Sir or Ma’am or whatever. Your post has no correlation with dealing with someone in a professional capacity.

It may seem strange to some, but some others of us are not five years of age and like to be polite and know in advance how to engage someone. This doesn’t help.

Who knows how 5 year olds address each other, depends on the day quite often sometimes it’s princess elsa and sometimes it’s the dragon warrior.

We can’t always know in advance, that’s completely stupid. Do all doctors wear special signs? Do all religious folks with different honorifics have a sign on their heads?

If it is unclear you can just ask “excuse me would you like me to address you as ma’am or sir?” I really can’t see the issue with that other than fear of accepting ones ignorance.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


So why reference the 5 year olds? You’ve elaborated that your point on this is irrelevant.

I’m probably one of the least ignorant people you’ve never met… and, as such, I like clarity.

As I review your posts… point conceded. Hopefully we won’t read about someone on these boards getting persecuted one day for “not knowing who they are addressing”.

It just needs to be clear


Easy solution: read the name tag :wink2:
 
FlyEndeavorAir
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:33 pm

"Hey guys, our on time rating sucks and we don't really present a professional image to the public, what should we do?"

"Oh I know, let our male FA's wear dresses!".

I stand with B6 pilots and ALPA for the upcoming call out/walk out. Enough is enough.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Fri Jul 16, 2021 11:50 pm

FlyEndeavorAir wrote:
"Hey guys, our on time rating sucks and we don't really present a professional image to the public, what should we do?"

"Oh I know, let our male FA's wear dresses!".

I stand with B6 pilots and ALPA for the upcoming call out/walk out. Enough is enough.


Unions fight for working conditions, not protection of snowflake feelings.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:14 am

I'm the only one who was reminded about Sir Richard Branson's lost wager by the topic title?

https://www.airlinereporter.com/2013/05 ... e-a-woman/
 
afcjets
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:19 am

flipdewaf wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
Who cares what people care… the issue comes when you don’t know what to call someone.


My daughter is 5, when she doesn’t know what to call someone (another 5year old she just met at the park) she just asks them, if you can’t grasp that same concept that a 5 year old does then I would suggest you shouldn’t be on a plane unaccompanied.



I never had that problem at 5. Your daughter might not either if she grew up in a decade where people aren't told lies like there are 72 genders.
Last edited by afcjets on Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
FlyEndeavorAir
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:21 am

Aaron747 wrote:
FlyEndeavorAir wrote:
"Hey guys, our on time rating sucks and we don't really present a professional image to the public, what should we do?"

"Oh I know, let our male FA's wear dresses!".

I stand with B6 pilots and ALPA for the upcoming call out/walk out. Enough is enough.


Unions fight for working conditions, not protection of snowflake feelings.


Except you don't know any facts.

B6 pilots (pilots, in case you didn't know, wear the same uniforms) had to change their uniforms because they were deemed "unprofessional".

This is a slap in the face to them on top of everything else.
 
afcjets
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:22 am

flipdewaf wrote:

If it is unclear you can just ask “excuse me would you like me to address you as ma’am or sir?” I really can’t see the issue with that other than fear of accepting ones ignorance.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Lol talk about offensive.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:50 am

FlyEndeavorAir wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
FlyEndeavorAir wrote:
"Hey guys, our on time rating sucks and we don't really present a professional image to the public, what should we do?"

"Oh I know, let our male FA's wear dresses!".

I stand with B6 pilots and ALPA for the upcoming call out/walk out. Enough is enough.


Unions fight for working conditions, not protection of snowflake feelings.


Except you don't know any facts.

B6 pilots (pilots, in case you didn't know, wear the same uniforms) had to change their uniforms because they were deemed "unprofessional".

This is a slap in the face to them on top of everything else.


Employers determine uniform standards and policy, not employee groups. Unless an aspect of a uniform has safety implications, there is really no logical basis for opposition. What's left is just feelings, and that's largely irrelevant.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:10 am

It means nothing to me if men wear dresses. It would be too bad if it's a move to get attention, because like I said, don't care. But I insist they not wear clown outfits, because clowns are scary.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:25 am

LCDFlight wrote:
It means nothing to me if men wear dresses. It would be too bad if it's a move to get attention, because like I said, don't care. But I insist they not wear clown outfits, because clowns are scary.


Agreed...clowns were never the same after American Horror Story: Freak Show.
 
AirframeAS
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:34 am

So...... B6 pilots walking out or staging a protest/strike all because a flight attendant wore a uniform that does not "match" their gender. Seriously?! Um, okay..... didn't know that was a priority at an airline. If my employer at an airline asked me to wear a gorilla suit and rebook customers, I'm going to do that. At the end of the day, nobody cares. The customer wants to just get from point A to point B in a safe manner, in one piece. The employee just wants to earn a paycheck. That is all there is to it.

This is a non-issue. Maybe the flight attendant in question is transgender. Who knows. And............ who friggin cares. The flight attendant isn't out to murder someone. Yet, someone still cries "foul!!!" C'mon!!!

Some people really need to get their priorities in check and really focus on the "actual real world" problems. Truly pathetic as this issue is, in fact, not a real world problem. Grow up, people.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:23 am

afcjets wrote:
This doesn't surprise me at all but I think this is totally unprofessional and I think this guy is just doing it for attention. I wonder if the pilots really will stage walkouts. I bet some families with small children have.


https://mobile.twitter.com/johncardillo ... 14724?s=20

Why would small children care?
 
afcjets
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:32 am

Aaron747 wrote:
The source (Cardillo) is highly suspect since even a cursory look on Google indicates he is a culture war provocateur.

You don't think the FA is too?


AirframeAS wrote:
Maybe the flight attendant in question is transgender. Who knows.

I bet he didn't show up to his interview like that.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:44 am

afcjets wrote:
You don't think the FA is too?


I don't know - if he is tweeting several times daily about single-minded issues and trying to get on MSNBC, perhaps so. But absent of that, I'd say zero evidence compared to Cardillo.

afcjets wrote:
I bet he didn't show up to his interview like that.


Illogical - nobody interviews in uniform. But if you want to get serious from HR's point of view, I bet most overweight FAs and pilots who interviewed 20 years ago didn't show up in that condition either.
 
afcjets
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:36 am

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
You don't think the FA is too?


I don't know - if he is tweeting several times daily about single-minded issues and trying to get on MSNBC, perhaps so. But absent of that, I'd say zero evidence compared to Cardillo.


A picture is worth a thousand words, especially the one he posed for in the tweet.



Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I bet he didn't show up to his interview like that.


Illogical - nobody interviews in uniform. But if you want to get serious from HR's point of view, I bet most overweight FAs and pilots who interviewed 20 years ago didn't show up in that condition either.


I think you know what I meant.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:07 am

afcjets wrote:
A picture is worth a thousand words, especially the one he posed for in the tweet.


I don't jump to conclusions from a picture so easily. Don't know the context, don't know if it was on duty or off, don't know what B6 HR knows, don't know the 'source''s motivation for sharing with an online provocateur. It's called due diligence.

afcjets wrote:
I think you know what I meant.


My meaning was pretty clear as well. I wonder what's more costly to a company long term: employees who let their waistlines expand bigly and rack up higher healthcare and sick off costs, or a guy in a dress? I know what the data will show.
 
afcjets
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:53 am

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
A picture is worth a thousand words, especially the one he posed for in the tweet.


I don't jump to conclusions from a picture so easily. Don't know the context, don't know if it was on duty or off, don't know what B6 HR knows, don't know the 'source''s motivation for sharing with an online provocateur. It's called due diligence.


The context is the dude is wearing a female FA dress uniform with wings, a scarf tied in a bow around his neck, pantyhose and heels while sporting a buzz cut and a beard, standing at the top of airstairs outside the open door of a B6 jet in sunny skies with the terminal behind him.



Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I think you know what I meant.


My meaning was pretty clear as well. I wonder what's more costly to a company long term: employees who let their waistlines expand bigly and rack up higher healthcare and sick off costs, or a guy in a dress? I know what the data will show.


What's more costly is the revenue they're going to lose if they keep up this nonsense and other airlines don't, although my initial reaction is Ed Bastian is going to be jealous.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:01 am

afcjets wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:

If it is unclear you can just ask “excuse me would you like me to address you as ma’am or sir?” I really can’t see the issue with that other than fear of accepting ones ignorance.

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Lol talk about offensive.

Totally agree, it’s very offensive that we should force someone to feel uncomfortable because a few members of society can’t share the same social manners as a 5 year old.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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seahawk
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:07 am

Simply make all uniforms gender neutral and have the women or the people who identify as such, wear trousers. Skirts and heels are a thing of the past anyway.
 
afcjets
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:25 am

flipdewaf wrote:
afcjets wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
If it is unclear you can just ask “excuse me would you like me to address you as ma’am or sir?” I really can’t see the issue with that other than fear of accepting ones ignorance.

Lol talk about offensive.

Totally agree, it’s very offensive that we should force someone to feel uncomfortable because a few members of society can’t share the same social manners as a 5 year old.


I disagree with you but this is one of the few things I agree with the Vice President on. It's up to other people to tell you what to call them, otherwise I'm going to call it like I see it.

"KAMALA HARRIS: My pronouns are she, her and hers."


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ala-harris
 
afcjets
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:29 am

seahawk wrote:
Simply make all uniforms gender neutral and have the women or the people who identify as such, wear trousers. Skirts and heels are a thing of the past anyway.

Not to women who know how and want to attract a man, they're not going anywhere anytime soon and neither is that
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:38 am

afcjets wrote:
The context is the dude is wearing a female FA dress uniform with wings, a scarf tied in a bow around his neck, pantyhose and heels while sporting a buzz cut and a beard, standing at the top of airstairs outside the open door of a B6 jet in sunny skies with the terminal behind him.


That's not context - you have described appearance only. Appearance is not context - appearance is what one sees, context is the scenario or environment from which something is seen. I know English can be confusing, but c'mon.

afcjets wrote:
What's more costly is the revenue they're going to lose if they keep up this nonsense and other airlines don't, although my initial reaction is Ed Bastian is going to be jealous.


If they flew only to evangelical rural areas you may have a point, but considering B6 serves primarily large metros, this will hardly cost anything. I assure you healthcare and sick out costs for overweight employees have *far* higher impact.

https://www.peoplekeep.com/blog/bid/323 ... n%20claims.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:40 am

afcjets wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Simply make all uniforms gender neutral and have the women or the people who identify as such, wear trousers. Skirts and heels are a thing of the past anyway.

Not to women who know how and want to attract a man, they're not going anywhere anytime soon and neither is that


This is probably one of the most misogynist comments on this forum in some time. You may not be aware but FAs don't wear heels when working on an aircraft. Want to guess why? 'Attracting a male' is not in their job description. FFS! And people wonder why 'modern' updates to workplace policies are necessary? :boggled:
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:43 am

afcjets wrote:
This doesn't surprise me at all but I think this is totally unprofessional and I think this guy is just doing it for attention. I wonder if the pilots really will stage walkouts. I bet some families with small children have.


Why would families with small children be threatened by a man in a dress? Someone’s sexual orientation or gender identity is not a factor in child abuse, that’s scientifically confirmed:

https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2 ... e-children

It’s like all the conservatives crying about Drag Queen story hour, their “won’t somebody please think about the children” plea is just a covert cover up for anti-LGBT hate.

Suggesting someone is a threat to children because of their dress is a disgusting line of attack.
 
flipdewaf
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 9:57 am

afcjets wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Simply make all uniforms gender neutral and have the women or the people who identify as such, wear trousers. Skirts and heels are a thing of the past anyway.

Not to women who know how and want to attract a man, they're not going anywhere anytime soon and neither is that


sierrakilo44 wrote:

Suggesting someone is a threat to children because of their dress is a disgusting line of attack.


It does depend though, a child may of course wear a skirt and to certain members of society that could only possibly mean one thing….apparently… clothing choice is a threat only to the clothing wearer it seems.

Incidentally I was not attracted to my wife because of a dress and high heels, we joked only yesterday that it’s the second time in a month she wore a dress. She never wears heels and spends 90% of her time in work boots and jodhpurs. I was attracted because we have similar interests and spent time doing things together.

Fred


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Aesma
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 10:56 am

About how to call someone, my country hasn't caught up with that yet, and since I'm rather conservative regarding the French language, there will definitely be issues with all the variations. I would hope that man would accept to be called either way, and correct us if needed, but in a friendly manner.

FlyEndeavorAir wrote:
Except you don't know any facts.

B6 pilots (pilots, in case you didn't know, wear the same uniforms) had to change their uniforms because they were deemed "unprofessional".

This is a slap in the face to them on top of everything else.


I don't know the facts either, do you mean pilots have to wear F/A uniforms ? If so, then male pilots can now wear a dress, what's the big deal ?
 
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seahawk
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:01 pm

afcjets wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Simply make all uniforms gender neutral and have the women or the people who identify as such, wear trousers. Skirts and heels are a thing of the past anyway.

Not to women who know how and want to attract a man, they're not going anywhere anytime soon and neither is that


As FAs of all gender are safety and service professionals, I fail to see your comment is connected to the topic.
 
afcjets
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 12:53 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
The context is the dude is wearing a female FA dress uniform with wings, a scarf tied in a bow around his neck, pantyhose and heels while sporting a buzz cut and a beard, standing at the top of airstairs outside the open door of a B6 jet in sunny skies with the terminal behind him.


That's not context - you have described appearance only. Appearance is not context - appearance is what one sees, context is the scenario or environment from which something is seen. I know English can be confusing, but c'mon.


It's really not that confusing. I described both his appearance and the setting or context in which he appeared that way.

"the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs : ENVIRONMENT, SETTING"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/context



Aaron747 wrote:
This is probably one of the most misogynist comments on this forum in some time. You may not be aware but FAs don't wear heels when working on an aircraft. Want to guess why? 'Attracting a male' is not in their job description. FFS! And people wonder why 'modern' updates to workplace policies are necessary? :boggled:

I agree it's not their job description anymore and hasn't been for decades, but it absolutely was a big part of it back in the day. I assumed the poster I was responding to was making a blanket statement that heels and skirts were on their way out, not just in the context of FA uniforms.

The irony is you keep bringing up weight issues and how it affects a company's bottom line, and the context is a discussion about FA uniforms and appearance. As I'm sure you're aware FA weigh-ins were always controversial and seen as misogynistic.

Here are some commercials from decades past where you can see how it's pretty clear the airline was using sex appeal of their stewardesses to attract male business passenger, which was the bulk of their flyers.

PSA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6dDVr3a7U7A

National

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xFjJXFmuEqM

American

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W3gZddGBtGY

Especially the first one here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gSbfTwC0NCg
 
afcjets
Topic Author
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:08 pm

seahawk wrote:
afcjets wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Simply make all uniforms gender neutral and have the women or the people who identify as such, wear trousers. Skirts and heels are a thing of the past anyway.
Not to women who know how and want to attract a man, they're not going anywhere anytime soon and neither is that
As FAs of all gender are safety and service professionals, I fail to see your comment is connected to the topic.


You suggested a solution that would end this controversy of a male FA wearing a dress and pointed out that clothing has trended gender neutral anyways and I thought you meant in general, not just in the airline industry. I was disagreeing with you that skirts and heels are totally a thing of the past and I think they never will be. And it might be why some airlines still offer this option to female FAs and that might not change either.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:30 pm

What's happening here is that you now have a gender/identity obsessed demographic who see him identifying as she, and see her as courageous. But you also have other demographics who just see him as someone self-obsessed who doesn't take his job too seriously, which they wouldn't see as being very professional.

afcjets wrote:
Here are some commercials from decades past where you can see how it's pretty clear the airline was using sex appeal of their stewardesses to attract male business passenger, which was the bulk of their flyers.

I used to love this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIqwUV- ... upequattro
 
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seahawk
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:36 pm

afcjets wrote:
seahawk wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Not to women who know how and want to attract a man, they're not going anywhere anytime soon and neither is that
As FAs of all gender are safety and service professionals, I fail to see your comment is connected to the topic.


You suggested a solution that would end this controversy of a male FA wearing a dress and pointed out that clothing has trended gender neutral anyways and I thought you meant in general, not just in the airline industry. I was disagreeing with you that skirts and heels are totally a thing of the past and I think they never will be. And it might be why some airlines still offer this option to female FAs and that might not change either.


As a work uniform, I think they are a thing of the past, as the sexist connotation is unsuitable.
 
afcjets
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:56 pm

Braybuddy wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Here are some commercials from decades past where you can see how it's pretty clear the airline was using sex appeal of their stewardesses to attract male business passenger, which was the bulk of their flyers.

I used to love this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIqwUV- ... upequattro


Wow, thanks for sharing, that commercial is amazing! I also love 80s music and the date of that commercial was exactly when that song peaked, at least here in the US, so I love how current it was too. My favorite part though is the contrast with the other airlines, or more specifically BA I assume, and how even their FAs take notice and appear envious.

EDIT: Oh wait, I just realized that commercial is more recent and 1984 is when Virgin Atlantic launched lol
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:06 pm

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
The context is the dude is wearing a female FA dress uniform with wings, a scarf tied in a bow around his neck, pantyhose and heels while sporting a buzz cut and a beard, standing at the top of airstairs outside the open door of a B6 jet in sunny skies with the terminal behind him.


That's not context - you have described appearance only. Appearance is not context - appearance is what one sees, context is the scenario or environment from which something is seen. I know English can be confusing, but c'mon.


It's really not that confusing. I described both his appearance and the setting or context in which he appeared that way.

"the interrelated conditions in which something exists or occurs : ENVIRONMENT, SETTING"

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/context



Aaron747 wrote:
This is probably one of the most misogynist comments on this forum in some time. You may not be aware but FAs don't wear heels when working on an aircraft. Want to guess why? 'Attracting a male' is not in their job description. FFS! And people wonder why 'modern' updates to workplace policies are necessary? :boggled:

I agree it's not their job description anymore and hasn't been for decades, but it absolutely was a big part of it back in the day. I assumed the poster I was responding to was making a blanket statement that heels and skirts were on their way out, not just in the context of FA uniforms.

The irony is you keep bringing up weight issues and how it affects a company's bottom line, and the context is a discussion about FA uniforms and appearance. As I'm sure you're aware FA weigh-ins were always controversial and seen as misogynistic.

Here are some commercials from decades past where you can see how it's pretty clear the airline was using sex appeal of their stewardesses to attract male business passenger, which was the bulk of their flyers.

PSA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6dDVr3a7U7A

National

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xFjJXFmuEqM

American

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W3gZddGBtGY

Especially the first one here:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gSbfTwC0NCg


Nice try, that's a 'yeah nah' on both scores, as the Aussies say.
 
FGITD
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:02 pm

Aaron747 wrote:

Nice try, that's a 'yeah nah' on both scores, as the Aussies say.


You just know the argument against a decision made in 2021 is a sure winner when the user you quoted has to keep saying phrases like:

“Back in the day”

“Decades ago”

And then proceeds to use commercials from the 70s and 80s as proof, specifically using several airlines that don’t even exist anymore, at least in the same iteration.
 
afcjets
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 3:57 pm

FGITD wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Nice try, that's a 'yeah nah' on both scores, as the Aussies say.


You just know the argument against a decision made in 2021 is a sure winner when the user you quoted has to keep saying phrases like:

“Back in the day”

“Decades ago”

And then proceeds to use commercials from the 70s and 80s as proof, specifically using several airlines that don’t even exist anymore, at least in the same iteration.


Then you missed the argument I made. I conceded I was not making the point that female FAs are hired as sex objects for the enjoyment of men or their motivation for becoming one is to meet men, but clearly that wasn't always the case. I was simply responding to the notion that high heels etc are a thing of the past in women's wear and imo never will be.

BTW I disagree with your insinuation that sexy stewardesses and commercials from the 60s and early to mid 70s had anything to do with PSA and National being aquired. I could have just as easily linked a Southwest commercial or ad (like I did with American) with the girls wearing hot pants. And clearly the "Still red hot" 2009 commercial Braybuddy shared hasn't caused Virgin Atlantic to shutdown either.
 
CaptHadley
Posts: 168
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:16 pm

afcjets,
You protesting this much is making me feel just a wee like it's hitting a little too close to home for you. Now is it?
 
FGITD
Posts: 1741
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:19 pm

afcjets wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Nice try, that's a 'yeah nah' on both scores, as the Aussies say.


You just know the argument against a decision made in 2021 is a sure winner when the user you quoted has to keep saying phrases like:

“Back in the day”

“Decades ago”

And then proceeds to use commercials from the 70s and 80s as proof, specifically using several airlines that don’t even exist anymore, at least in the same iteration.


Then you missed the argument I made. I conceded I was not making the point that female FAs are hired as sex objects for the enjoyment of men or their motivation for becoming one is to meet men, but clearly that wasn't always the case. I was simply responding to the notion that high heels etc are a thing of the past in women's wear and imo never will be.

BTW I disagree with your insinuation that sexy stewardesses and commercials from the 60s and early to mid 70s had anything to do with PSA and National being aquired. I could have just as easily linked a Southwest commercial or ad (like I did with American) with the girls wearing hot pants. And clearly the "Still red hot" 2009 commercial Braybuddy shared hasn't caused Virgin Atlantic to shutdown either.


Your argument is still nonsense. You’re saying they aren’t a thing of the past…by using commercials and airline promos from 40 years ago? I don’t entirely disagree, as women’s wear hasn’t changed much, your argument is just terrible.

But you also seem to somehow be under the impression that I claimed those airlines went out of business as a result of those F/As attire and commercials, so I really don’t know what to make of that. I was pointing out their irrelevance.
 
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seb146
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:24 pm

Staples office supply store has adopted a "casual Friday" look all week long. It is hard to tell employees from shoppers. I think a shirt to make an employee stand out is enough. If they want to wear shorts or jeans or a skirt, so what? I would not wear a skirt because I don't have the legs for it but if another guy wants to, it makes no difference to me. I am just out here trying to live my best life. Some random dude in a skirt will not change that.
 
afcjets
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:40 pm

FGITD wrote:

Your argument is still nonsense. You’re saying they aren’t a thing of the past…by using commercials and airline promos from 40 years ago? I don’t entirely disagree, as women’s wear hasn’t changed much, your argument is just terrible.

But you also seem to somehow be under the impression that I claimed those airlines went out of business as a result of those F/As attire and commercials, so I really don’t know what to make of that. I was pointing out their irrelevance.


I was only pointing out the irony of his post that I made a misogynistic comment over a topic that very much was a real and misogynistic issue. It's one thing if a woman today chooses to dress sexy because she wants and many do, but another thing if an entire industry uses woman as sex objects like the airline industry did so heavily in the past. I wouldn't even have an issue with that today (because it would still be consensual) beyond I would feel bad for the candidate who would make a great flight attendant but wouldn't get the opportunity to live her (or his) dream if they didn't fit that stereotype.

Most airlines from the past don't exist today because of the heavy consolidation that occured over decades, so I don't think that makes them any less relevant in this example.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:10 pm

If it is mandated uniform the employee does not choose to look sexy, but is forced to by the company. And while I really like the dudes legs in the skirt, I still think trousers are better if you could be forced to slide down an emergency slide.
 
drew777
Posts: 211
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Re: Jetblue allows Male FAs to wear dresses

Sat Jul 17, 2021 6:23 pm

I wonder if he identified as a pilot if he could start wearing their uniform? This isn't even a transgender situation as he appears to just be a crossdresser. Wanna wear the dress? Man up and have those balls cut off.

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