YouGov Poll Finds 66% Of Southern Republicans In Favor Of Seceding From USA

Aaron747 · Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:17 am

Another pretty stunning poll result, just out from the British polling firm YouGov. 66% of GOP voters surveyed in the US south and 47% of Democrats surveyed in the US west support secession from the union. Voters in the northeast had the lowest overall tolerance for the idea. The fact that so many Americans casually support such an idea suggests frustration with polarization has entered a stage of significant resignation.

The pollsters did establish a hopeful caveat though:

The results should be considered carefully, however, as pollsters warned “this survey item reflects initial reactions by respondents about an issue that they are very unlikely to have considered carefully.

“Secession is a genuinely radical proposition and expressions of support in a survey may map only loosely onto willingness to act toward that end. We include the question because it taps into respondents’ commitments to the American political system at the highest level and with reference to a concrete alternative (regional unions),” pollsters said.

https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/66-of-s ... shows.html

Talk of secession was significantly high both following last November's election and the January 6th Capitol event. Poll takers had expected these results to simmer down by summer, but it seems the needle didn't move as much as expected. One thing is for sure: stability of the union will be under threat the more polarization increases unabated.

AirframeAS · Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:22 am

Why do people even do these polls for, when we already have laws on the books prohibiting secession...namely the 14th amendment?

Aaron747 · Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:27 am

AirframeAS wrote:
Why do people even do these polls for, when we already have laws on the books prohibiting secession...namely the 14th amendment?

The outfit that paid for the polling is an NPO funded by the Hewlett Foundation, Democracy Fund, and University of Chicago's Center on Democracy. Presumably the main thrust is for political scientists to track behaviors and attitudes that threaten the American system and gauge our institutional resilience to those forces.

casinterest · Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:37 am

Aaron747 wrote:
AirframeAS wrote:
Why do people even do these polls for, when we already have laws on the books prohibiting secession...namely the 14th amendment?

The outfit that paid for the polling is an NPO funded by the Hewlett Foundation, Democracy Fund, and University of Chicago's Center on Democracy. Presumably the main thrust is for political scientists to track behaviors and attitudes that threaten the American system and gauge our institutional resilience to those forces.

Well, I bet it stems from the fact that so many GOP members of the "We believe" faction are so sick and tired of cold hard science, math, and biology being against them, that they have become vocal about secession:)
This survey is merely trying to gauge the breadth and depth of the support.

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2021/02 ... gislature/
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/p ... cna1259016

seb146 · Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:43 am

I think this should happen. Give a five year period when citizens are allowed to move. Then, after those five years, KS, TX, OK east and KS, MO, KY, VA south leave. That gives five years to draft their constitution, five years to put immigration plans into place, five years to put voting rights and so on into place. In that same five years, the remaining United States will draft a new constitution, immigration policies, and voting rights and so on.

Aaron747 · Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:50 am

seb146 wrote:
I think this should happen. Give a five year period when citizens are allowed to move. Then, after those five years, KS, TX, OK east and KS, MO, KY, VA south leave. That gives five years to draft their constitution, five years to put immigration plans into place, five years to put voting rights and so on into place. In that same five years, the remaining United States will draft a new constitution, immigration policies, and voting rights and so on.

Texas v. White ruled in 1869 that unilateral secession is unconstitutional. Most legal scholars think majority consent from other states and/or revolution by a state would be required for secession.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/74/700
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White

casinterest · Sat Jul 17, 2021 4:59 am

Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I think this should happen. Give a five year period when citizens are allowed to move. Then, after those five years, KS, TX, OK east and KS, MO, KY, VA south leave. That gives five years to draft their constitution, five years to put immigration plans into place, five years to put voting rights and so on into place. In that same five years, the remaining United States will draft a new constitution, immigration policies, and voting rights and so on.

Texas v. White ruled in 1869 that unilateral secession is unconstitutional. Most legal scholars think majority consent from other states and/or revolution by a state would be required for secession.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/74/700
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White

I am trying to figure out why VA is in the list? They are rather solid D now. WV maybe should be there.

It would never happen, they would be landlocked and broke in 5 years.

Aaron747 · Sat Jul 17, 2021 5:14 am

casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I think this should happen. Give a five year period when citizens are allowed to move. Then, after those five years, KS, TX, OK east and KS, MO, KY, VA south leave. That gives five years to draft their constitution, five years to put immigration plans into place, five years to put voting rights and so on into place. In that same five years, the remaining United States will draft a new constitution, immigration policies, and voting rights and so on.

Texas v. White ruled in 1869 that unilateral secession is unconstitutional. Most legal scholars think majority consent from other states and/or revolution by a state would be required for secession.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/74/700
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._White

I am trying to figure out why VA is in the list? They are rather solid D now. WV maybe should be there.

It would never happen, they would be landlocked and broke in 5 years.

There wouldn't be enough support in any large purple states really, so that goes for TX too.

Aesma · Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:08 am

Flyover country would become real.

c933103 · Sat Jul 17, 2021 1:32 pm

AirframeAS wrote:
Why do people even do these polls for, when we already have laws on the books prohibiting secession...namely the 14th amendment?

what the law forbid doesn't mean people's perception shouldn't be observed.

frmrCapCadet · Sat Jul 17, 2021 2:14 pm

It won't work for the same reasons Lincoln opposed succession 160+ years ago. And roughly speaking that is because it would be never ending, until all states 'succeeded'. And the South would no more be able to establish an enduring union that the various '..stans' or other failed states/governments we see throughout the world. It likely would entail unending cold wars between various states or blocks of states. Haters, antiestablishment-ers, anti science, phony religionists long to reign and are willing the live with failed economies and hypocrisies piled on hypocrisies. Such folks are common in every state, they just have a majority of white voters in the south.

As always, we should really look at these sorts of things from an evolutionary vantage point. Tribalism explains a lot. Us humans have a difficult time when we gather into groups larger than the tribe.

Drafran · Sat Jul 17, 2021 7:39 pm

AirframeAS wrote:
Why do people even do these polls for, when we already have laws on the books prohibiting secession...namely the 14th amendment?

You know, every party does not need a pooper. :stirthepot:

dtw2hyd · Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:12 pm

IMHO (I could be completely wrong) states nursing on federal spending through MIC and now DIC, have this idea they are better than others.

ps: DIC stands for Data Industrial Complex the new MIC.

Aaron747 · Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:14 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
IMHO (I could be completely wrong) states nursing on federal spending through MIC and now DIC, have this idea they are better than others.

ps: DIC stands for Data Industrial Complex the new MIC.

Not sure if 'better' is the right descriptor, but they certainly have more economic influence than states with low GDP.

CitizenJustin · Sat Jul 17, 2021 11:30 pm

Aesma wrote:
Flyover country would become real.

Oh it’s real. As a little boy in Kansas I’d lay on the lawn and watch the big transcon flights quickly pass by just miles above. I used to think about what New York and LA must be like when watching AA’s 767 JFK-LAX daily flyby. Two separate worlds, so close, but ohhhh so far.

LabQuest · Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:32 am

I don't know a single person around me that believes in this. I don't buy this at all.

santi319 · Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:38 am

The irony of a Republican Country being closer to Iran and Saudi Arabia in terms of freedom than those countries of the west is so priceless I would love to see it!

dtw2hyd · Sun Jul 18, 2021 12:58 am

Aaron747 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
IMHO (I could be completely wrong) states nursing on federal spending through MIC and now DIC, have this idea they are better than others.

ps: DIC stands for Data Industrial Complex the new MIC.

Not sure if 'better' is the right descriptor, but they certainly have more economic influence than states with low GDP.

When they get their wish, they don't. They cannot nurse on others' tax payments.

Aaron747 · Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:08 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
IMHO (I could be completely wrong) states nursing on federal spending through MIC and now DIC, have this idea they are better than others.

ps: DIC stands for Data Industrial Complex the new MIC.

Not sure if 'better' is the right descriptor, but they certainly have more economic influence than states with low GDP.

When they get their wish, they don't. They cannot nurse on others' tax payments.

Too many pronouns - to what are you referring?

sierrakilo44 · Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:26 am

santi319 wrote:
The irony of a Republican Country being closer to Iran and Saudi Arabia in terms of freedom than those countries of the west is so priceless I would love to see it!

This clip pretty much encapsulates the truth that when these bitter enemies get to know each other they realise they have far more in common than they realise and their “enemies” are one and the same, it should be the foundation for a life long relationship:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYV7KWQ-fY4

Ken777 · Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:42 am

We all know that conservative white Republicans HATE Americans with black sins, brown skins and red skins. Probably a bunch of yellow skins as well. Toss out6 non-holy rollin Christians and you can see their version of Utopia.

That is the kind of person who LOVES Trump and HATES everyone else. Some of the (few) brighter one understand that if their southern states are white only then the South will face the greatest economic destruction any state has ever known.

This survey simply demonstrates the ignorance of Trump Lovers.

Time t see him indicted, given a perp walk and mugshots released to the public with and without his cheap wigs.

stl07 · Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:03 am

CitizenJustin wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Flyover country would become real.

Oh it’s real. As a little boy in Kansas I’d lay on the lawn and watch the big transcon flights quickly pass by just miles above. I used to think about what New York and LA must be like when watching AA’s 767 JFK-LAX daily flyby. Two separate worlds, so close, but ohhhh so far.

Somehow you guys have a blue governor and your senate race was a tossup

santi319 · Sun Jul 18, 2021 2:55 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
santi319 wrote:
The irony of a Republican Country being closer to Iran and Saudi Arabia in terms of freedom than those countries of the west is so priceless I would love to see it!

This clip pretty much encapsulates the truth that when these bitter enemies get to know each other they realise they have far more in common than they realise and their “enemies” are one and the same, it should be the foundation for a life long relationship:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYV7KWQ-fY4

Exactly!!! I’ve been saying this all along.

Religion aside, imagine, a male dominated country, where minorities are not welcome, ruled by a homogeneous race, where women stick to being in the house, nature is disregarded, science is ignored and God’s book reigns school and society.

It could be Saudi, to some extent Iran, it could be China a bit, it could be a Republican Country.. you can’t make this up…

sierrakilo44 · Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:29 am

santi319 wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:
santi319 wrote:
The irony of a Republican Country being closer to Iran and Saudi Arabia in terms of freedom than those countries of the west is so priceless I would love to see it!

This clip pretty much encapsulates the truth that when these bitter enemies get to know each other they realise they have far more in common than they realise and their “enemies” are one and the same, it should be the foundation for a life long relationship:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYV7KWQ-fY4

Exactly!!! I’ve been saying this all along.

Religion aside, imagine, a male dominated country, where minorities are not welcome, ruled by a homogeneous race, where women stick to being in the house, nature is disregarded, science is ignored and God’s book reigns school and society.

It could be Saudi, to some extent Iran, it could be China a bit, it could be a Republican Country.. you can’t make this up…

The other thing I remembered was this photo comparison going around a few years back. Basically an American woman standing in front of an American flag with a Bible and a gun, next to a Muslim woman with a gun and a Quran in an identical pose:

https://mobile.twitter.com/countonrodne ... 1633869824

It’s a bit like passionate followers of sports teams. The deck themselves out in the colours of their chosen team, hate supporters of the other team and think by supporting one team they’re so much better, but at the end of the day they’re watching the groups of players play the exact same sport.

For secularists and the non aligned it’s actually funny to watch.

seb146 · Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:47 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
santi319 wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:

This clip pretty much encapsulates the truth that when these bitter enemies get to know each other they realise they have far more in common than they realise and their “enemies” are one and the same, it should be the foundation for a life long relationship:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYV7KWQ-fY4

Exactly!!! I’ve been saying this all along.

Religion aside, imagine, a male dominated country, where minorities are not welcome, ruled by a homogeneous race, where women stick to being in the house, nature is disregarded, science is ignored and God’s book reigns school and society.

It could be Saudi, to some extent Iran, it could be China a bit, it could be a Republican Country.. you can’t make this up…

The other thing I remembered was this photo comparison going around a few years back. Basically an American woman standing in front of an American flag with a Bible and a gun, next to a Muslim woman with a gun and a Quran in an identical pose:

https://mobile.twitter.com/countonrodne ... 1633869824

It’s a bit like passionate followers of sports teams. The deck themselves out in the colours of their chosen team, hate supporters of the other team and think by supporting one team they’re so much better, but at the end of the day they’re watching the groups of players play the exact same sport.

For secularists and the non aligned it’s actually funny to watch.

GENERALLY your sports analogy is wrong. GENERALLY. There are instances, yes, but we get along for the most part. Even when the other team pays off the refs, we still appreciate great plays and good players. Even ones who do not deserve it. I have been to baseball and hockey games where I did not feel threatened at all by the opposing fans. The worst hockey match I went to ended up being a UFC brawl on ice. I think it was the Chiefs and Rockets playing at the old Barn in Spokane. Terrible game, too much blood, too many fights. The Chiefs fans were great. The first time my Bucs won the Super Bowl, I was working and keeping an eye on the score. My boss had money on the game and I just kept saying "game's not over yet..." until it was. He made some snide comment at the end and we laughed and life went on.

The difference is Republicans want a one party system where their "move the goal posts so we always win" is the law. They don't want compromise. They don't want "we are all in the same boat". They want to rule forever and always, no questions asked.

TWA772LR · Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:24 am

In my unexepert opinion the only states that can make a Supreme Court case for leaving the United States should be Texas (a sovereign nation admitted via treaty in 1845) and Hawaii (a sovereign nation that was admitted as a territory after a coup supported by mainlanders and field by corporate greed).

That said, no state should ever leave the Union. The Union should always be upheld and supported by anyone that chooses to identify as American. I grew up on and lived on Texas for almost 20 years and identify as a Texan and am even a son of the Texas Revolution, but I will turn my back on Texas if it secedes in my lifetime.

dtw2hyd · Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:44 am

Aaron747 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Not sure if 'better' is the right descriptor, but they certainly have more economic influence than states with low GDP.

When they get their wish, they don't. They cannot nurse on others' tax payments.

Too many pronouns - to what are you referring?

Let me clarify,

Once the big GDP state leaves the union, will no longer will access to other states' taxes, its economy will be right sized.

It is the concentrated spending of union's collective economic power made their GDP bigger, no on their own.

luckyone · Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:58 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:
santi319 wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:

This clip pretty much encapsulates the truth that when these bitter enemies get to know each other they realise they have far more in common than they realise and their “enemies” are one and the same, it should be the foundation for a life long relationship:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYV7KWQ-fY4

Exactly!!! I’ve been saying this all along.

Religion aside, imagine, a male dominated country, where minorities are not welcome, ruled by a homogeneous race, where women stick to being in the house, nature is disregarded, science is ignored and God’s book reigns school and society.

It could be Saudi, to some extent Iran, it could be China a bit, it could be a Republican Country.. you can’t make this up…

The other thing I remembered was this photo comparison going around a few years back. Basically an American woman standing in front of an American flag with a Bible and a gun, next to a Muslim woman with a gun and a Quran in an identical pose:

https://mobile.twitter.com/countonrodne ... 1633869824

It’s a bit like passionate followers of sports teams. The deck themselves out in the colours of their chosen team, hate supporters of the other team and think by supporting one team they’re so much better, but at the end of the day they’re watching the groups of players play the exact same sport.

For secularists and the non aligned it’s actually funny to watch.

Indeed. There’s a significant number of people who identify as conservative who are aligned with the things that we supposedly spent the second Bush presidency fighting. Ironic much?

Jalap · Sun Jul 18, 2021 1:23 pm

santi319 wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:
santi319 wrote:
The irony of a Republican Country being closer to Iran and Saudi Arabia in terms of freedom than those countries of the west is so priceless I would love to see it!

This clip pretty much encapsulates the truth that when these bitter enemies get to know each other they realise they have far more in common than they realise and their “enemies” are one and the same, it should be the foundation for a life long relationship:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYV7KWQ-fY4

Exactly!!! I’ve been saying this all along.

Religion aside, imagine, a male dominated country, where minorities are not welcome, ruled by a homogeneous race, where women stick to being in the house, nature is disregarded, science is ignored and God’s book reigns school and society.

It could be Saudi, to some extent Iran, it could be China a bit, it could be a Republican Country.. you can’t make this up…

It could be Gilead as pictured in the Handmaid's Tale. Probably without the ecological fundamentalism though.

seb146 · Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:28 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

When they get their wish, they don't. They cannot nurse on others' tax payments.

Too many pronouns - to what are you referring?

Let me clarify,

Once the big GDP state leaves the union, will no longer will access to other states' taxes, its economy will be right sized.

It is the concentrated spending of union's collective economic power made their GDP bigger, no on their own.

Doesn't Texas take more in federal money than it gives? Like much of the South? We hear all the time how the economy of California is much larger than the economies of so many nations but we never hear that about Texas. I wonder why?

Aaron747 · Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:30 pm

seb146 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Too many pronouns - to what are you referring?

Let me clarify,

Once the big GDP state leaves the union, will no longer will access to other states' taxes, its economy will be right sized.

It is the concentrated spending of union's collective economic power made their GDP bigger, no on their own.

Doesn't Texas take more in federal money than it gives? Like much of the South? We hear all the time how the economy of California is much larger than the economies of so many nations but we never hear that about Texas. I wonder why?

Texas would be roughly the 9th or 10th largest economy in the world if it were a country.

GDB · Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:30 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Let me clarify,

Once the big GDP state leaves the union, will no longer will access to other states' taxes, its economy will be right sized.

It is the concentrated spending of union's collective economic power made their GDP bigger, no on their own.

Doesn't Texas take more in federal money than it gives? Like much of the South? We hear all the time how the economy of California is much larger than the economies of so many nations but we never hear that about Texas. I wonder why?

Texas would be roughly the 9th or 10th largest economy in the world if it were a country.

Would that level stay if most US Federal Agencies left along presumably with a lot of business that relies on them, or just are helped to be kept afloat? Along with many of the best and brightest not necessarily directly employed by them.
But never mind league tables, they cannot run a power grid when it is hot, nor when it is cold, I think the real label for any independent Texas would not be this or that on the economic league table but 'failed state'.

petertenthije · Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:50 pm

seb146 wrote:
We hear all the time how the economy of California is much larger than the economies of so many nations but we never hear that about Texas. I wonder why?

Must be Texas's legendary humility. LOL

Okie · Sun Jul 18, 2021 4:52 pm

The replies indicate the Dunning-Kruger Club seems to prove that they don't know they are in the Dunning-Kruger Club. :bigthumbsup:

Okie

TWA772LR · Sun Jul 18, 2021 5:56 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Let me clarify,

Once the big GDP state leaves the union, will no longer will access to other states' taxes, its economy will be right sized.

It is the concentrated spending of union's collective economic power made their GDP bigger, no on their own.

Doesn't Texas take more in federal money than it gives? Like much of the South? We hear all the time how the economy of California is much larger than the economies of so many nations but we never hear that about Texas. I wonder why?

Texas would be roughly the 9th or 10th largest economy in the world if it were a country.

As of 2017, the Houston area alone would be 26. The US would hurt dearly if Texas were to leave. I'm against Texas secession as stated earlier, but if Houston went the Singapore route I'd be ok with that and move back! :biggrin:

LCDFlight · Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:33 pm

I believe that a good portion of these attitudes stem from disinformation campaigns and antagonism content sponsored by our counterparts in Russia and China. It is so valuable to their priorities that we be weakened. Potentially, we can vote ourselves out of existence, without Russia or China even firing a shot! Wouldn't that be amazing? Things are going really great for them.

wingman · Sun Jul 18, 2021 8:11 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
I believe that a good portion of these attitudes stem from disinformation campaigns and antagonism content sponsored by our counterparts in Russia and China. It is so valuable to their priorities that we be weakened. Potentially, we can vote ourselves out of existence, without Russia or China even firing a shot! Wouldn't that be amazing? Things are going really great for them.

The Republican base literally worships at the altar of disinformation. Trump did little more than spew utter garbage for 4 hears and counting and still they lap up his bullshit with feverish excitement. It's almost as if the dumber they get the prouder they become of their ignorance. I keep waiting for the GOP to wake up and start understanding that their support for mass disinformation is doing exactly what you say above. Trust me, when the Chinese and the Russians do their disinformation targeting selection they zero straight in on the GOP core. It's like toying with newborn kittens.

CitizenJustin · Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:43 pm

stl07 wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Flyover country would become real.

Oh it’s real. As a little boy in Kansas I’d lay on the lawn and watch the big transcon flights quickly pass by just miles above. I used to think about what New York and LA must be like when watching AA’s 767 JFK-LAX daily flyby. Two separate worlds, so close, but ohhhh so far.

Somehow you guys have a blue governor and your senate race was a tossup

Yah we’ve had quite a few Democratic governors in the past.

stl07 · Sun Jul 18, 2021 9:46 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
stl07 wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:

Oh it’s real. As a little boy in Kansas I’d lay on the lawn and watch the big transcon flights quickly pass by just miles above. I used to think about what New York and LA must be like when watching AA’s 767 JFK-LAX daily flyby. Two separate worlds, so close, but ohhhh so far.

Somehow you guys have a blue governor and your senate race was a tossup

Yah we’ve had quite a few Democratic governors in the past.

Which means that the people connect to the democratic party message, but dislike the national politics and other things. Which means the D party has to put in the work in red states, something they refuse to do. We saw this in MO, where weed and high minimum wage was passed, but Josh fucking Hawley, a seditionist, won the senate race

CitizenJustin · Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:12 pm

stl07 wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Somehow you guys have a blue governor and your senate race was a tossup

Yah we’ve had quite a few Democratic governors in the past.

Which means that the people connect to the democratic party message, but dislike the national politics and other things. Which means the D party has to put in the work in red states, something they refuse to do. We saw this in MO, where weed and high minimum wage was passed, but Josh fucking Hawley, a seditionist, won the senate race

Couldn’t agree more. However, I’m quite sure hell will freeze over before Kansas turns blue in a presidential election.

stl07 · Sun Jul 18, 2021 11:31 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
stl07 wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:

Yah we’ve had quite a few Democratic governors in the past.

Which means that the people connect to the democratic party message, but dislike the national politics and other things. Which means the D party has to put in the work in red states, something they refuse to do. We saw this in MO, where weed and high minimum wage was passed, but Josh fucking Hawley, a seditionist, won the senate race

Couldn’t agree more. However, I’m quite sure hell will freeze over before Kansas turns blue in a presidential election.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean that the party should give up on the midwest like it has been. Indiana, Missouri, Iowa, AK, and KS all have the potential to be competitive for senate races and governorships as we have seen in the past.

Aaron747 · Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:01 am

LCDFlight wrote:
I believe that a good portion of these attitudes stem from disinformation campaigns and antagonism content sponsored by our counterparts in Russia and China. It is so valuable to their priorities that we be weakened. Potentially, we can vote ourselves out of existence, without Russia or China even firing a shot! Wouldn't that be amazing? Things are going really great for them.

Hot take: the FSB fomented/enabled *both* Linda Sarsour and Steve Bannon. Everything else is history at this point

dtw2hyd · Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:09 am

Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Let me clarify,

Once the big GDP state leaves the union, will no longer will access to other states' taxes, its economy will be right sized.

It is the concentrated spending of union's collective economic power made their GDP bigger, no on their own.

Doesn't Texas take more in federal money than it gives? Like much of the South? We hear all the time how the economy of California is much larger than the economies of so many nations but we never hear that about Texas. I wonder why?

Texas would be roughly the 9th or 10th largest economy in the world if it were a country.

It won't be if it is a separate country. Reaping benefits of being part of the union and having wet dreams about being separate country.

If Texas is a separate country, Musk cannot spin that others are using Russian engines, NASA contract could go to any country, including Texas. Same goes for all federally funded programs and contracts. What happens to all private companies moved HQs to Texas and repeating tax incentives.

DFW cannot use FAA's funds to increase air service.

I can go on.

LCDFlight · Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:00 am

Absolutely, secession is really stupid talk. The US has done well because it is large and diverse. Some people are very humanities oriented, some people are very business oriented. Some people are very military oriented. The US benefitted by having many cultures within it. And multiple centers of gravity that compete within it. Texas is stronger because of California. California is stronger because of New York. New York is stronger because of Chicago. And so on.

seb146 · Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:12 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Doesn't Texas take more in federal money than it gives? Like much of the South? We hear all the time how the economy of California is much larger than the economies of so many nations but we never hear that about Texas. I wonder why?

Texas would be roughly the 9th or 10th largest economy in the world if it were a country.

It won't be if it is a separate country. Reaping benefits of being part of the union and having wet dreams about being separate country.

If Texas is a separate country, Musk cannot spin that others are using Russian engines, NASA contract could go to any country, including Texas. Same goes for all federally funded programs and contracts. What happens to all private companies moved HQs to Texas and repeating tax incentives.

DFW cannot use FAA's funds to increase air service.

I can go on.

This is a fantastic point. Five years, as I have suggested, may not be enough. ATC and transportation in general and maritime law and so many other things need to be worked out. I would love to see MAGAs strike out on their own but how? So much needs to be separated. Thank you, dtw, for pointing that out.

Iloveboeing · Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:15 am

santi319 wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:
santi319 wrote:
The irony of a Republican Country being closer to Iran and Saudi Arabia in terms of freedom than those countries of the west is so priceless I would love to see it!

This clip pretty much encapsulates the truth that when these bitter enemies get to know each other they realise they have far more in common than they realise and their “enemies” are one and the same, it should be the foundation for a life long relationship:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYV7KWQ-fY4

Exactly!!! I’ve been saying this all along.

Religion aside, imagine, a male dominated country, where minorities are not welcome, ruled by a homogeneous race, where women stick to being in the house, nature is disregarded, science is ignored and God’s book reigns school and society.

It could be Saudi, to some extent Iran, it could be China a bit, it could be a Republican Country.. you can’t make this up…

With the exception of religion, it sounds like you’re describing Japan.

seb146 · Mon Jul 19, 2021 4:38 am

Iloveboeing wrote:
santi319 wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:

This clip pretty much encapsulates the truth that when these bitter enemies get to know each other they realise they have far more in common than they realise and their “enemies” are one and the same, it should be the foundation for a life long relationship:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYV7KWQ-fY4

Exactly!!! I’ve been saying this all along.

Religion aside, imagine, a male dominated country, where minorities are not welcome, ruled by a homogeneous race, where women stick to being in the house, nature is disregarded, science is ignored and God’s book reigns school and society.

It could be Saudi, to some extent Iran, it could be China a bit, it could be a Republican Country.. you can’t make this up…

With the exception of religion, it sounds like you’re describing Japan.

Or North Korea

Kiwirob · Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:41 am

AirframeAS wrote:
Why do people even do these polls for, when we already have laws on the books prohibiting secession...namely the 14th amendment?

Just because a law is there doesn't mean it correct.

Some states are pretty dubious, for instance Hawaii should be an independent nation, it should never have been granted Statehood, it's entry into the US as a territory was a result of a coop, with the US attitude towards other countries having colonies you should be helping Hawaii towards independence.

santi319 · Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:06 am

Iloveboeing wrote:
santi319 wrote:
sierrakilo44 wrote:

This clip pretty much encapsulates the truth that when these bitter enemies get to know each other they realise they have far more in common than they realise and their “enemies” are one and the same, it should be the foundation for a life long relationship:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYV7KWQ-fY4

Exactly!!! I’ve been saying this all along.

Religion aside, imagine, a male dominated country, where minorities are not welcome, ruled by a homogeneous race, where women stick to being in the house, nature is disregarded, science is ignored and God’s book reigns school and society.

It could be Saudi, to some extent Iran, it could be China a bit, it could be a Republican Country.. you can’t make this up…

With the exception of religion, it sounds like you’re describing Japan.

And science is certainly not ignored in Japan…

N1120A · Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:44 am

I mean, please do. I'd be happy to stop supporting welfare states with my California tax dollars.

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