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MaverickM11
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TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:45 pm

Texas Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That Ku Klux Klan Is ‘Morally Wrong’

...because it's synonymous with the country's GOP:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/texas-se ... 5b2dc3?05e

"In a new political low in Texas, the Republican-dominated state Senate has passed a bill to eliminate a requirement that public schools teach that the Ku Klux Klan and its white supremacist campaign of terror are “morally wrong.”

The cut is among some two dozen curriculum requirements dropped in the measure, along with studying Martin Luther King Jr.’s “I Have a Dream” speech, the works of United Farm Workers leader Cesar Chavez, Susan B. Anthony’s writings about the women’s suffragist movement, and Native American history."
 
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Aaron747
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:59 pm

It’s like they’re trying to turn public education into a safe space for the children of Ben Shapiro and Charlie Kirk.
 
Kent350787
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Wed Jul 21, 2021 12:16 am

Fox on the GOP trying to defend the changes https://www.foxnews.com/media/media-and ... ation-bill
 
wingman
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:59 am

I usually can’t resist myself but get so dumbfounded I can’t believe it’s not bots. Then you read some of the anti science/factoid reality right here in the forum and you realize that a lot of Americans are just straight up elementary drop out KKK. At least 40-50M Americans fall into that combined bucket. Competing in the 21st Century is a daunting challenge for this country. We used to be a nation that craved improvement. Now a major section of society revels in ignorance. It’s bigly sad as their party leader would say.
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:14 pm

Kent350787 wrote:
Fox on the GOP trying to defend the changes https://www.foxnews.com/media/media-and ... ation-bill


Even by their own words it’s not that the Bill bans the teaching of the fact the KKK was bad, it’s that it allows individual schools to choose to teach that the KKK was not bad, which is really just the same thing
 
LCDFlight
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:22 pm

Are schools in the business of teaching what is morally wrong? I cannot recall being taught what was "morally right and wrong" in school or university. Instead, we were taught knowledge. We covered the holocaust of jewish people in WWII, slavery, and many other disturbing topics, as facts about human history and the dangers of extremism. If public schools start a litany of what is "right and wrong," where does it stop? Is that even the role of a public school? It sounds like a church topic.
 
afcjets
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:48 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Are schools in the business of teaching what is morally wrong? I cannot recall being taught what was "morally right and wrong" in school or university. Instead, we were taught knowledge. We covered the holocaust of jewish people in WWII, slavery, and many other disturbing topics, as facts about human history and the dangers of extremism. If public schools start a litany of what is "right and wrong," where does it stop? Is that even the role of a public school? It sounds like a church topic.


I can't either, except for the issue of cheating in school.
 
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seb146
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:10 pm

afcjets wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Are schools in the business of teaching what is morally wrong? I cannot recall being taught what was "morally right and wrong" in school or university. Instead, we were taught knowledge. We covered the holocaust of jewish people in WWII, slavery, and many other disturbing topics, as facts about human history and the dangers of extremism. If public schools start a litany of what is "right and wrong," where does it stop? Is that even the role of a public school? It sounds like a church topic.


I can't either, except for the issue of cheating in school.


From the article, it sounds like Texas schools had been teaching KKK campaigns of terror were taught to be morally wrong up to now. But, no outrage about "schools should not teach morality" until now?
 
sierrakilo44
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Wed Jul 21, 2021 2:28 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Are schools in the business of teaching what is morally wrong? I cannot recall being taught what was "morally right and wrong" in school or university. Instead, we were taught knowledge. We covered the holocaust of jewish people in WWII, slavery, and many other disturbing topics, as facts about human history and the dangers of extremism. If public schools start a litany of what is "right and wrong," where does it stop? Is that even the role of a public school? It sounds like a church topic.


Teaching isn’t just about straight data but also the reasons why things happened, and discussions.

None of the discussions would’ve involved a teacher asking “Ok class, can you give me reasons why you think the Holocaust was justified, or why Blacks should’ve been kept as slaves?”

What the Texas Bill means is a school or teacher CAN ask a class “Ok class, can you give me reasons why the KKK’s philosophy was justified? Why the KKK may have had some good points and did some good things? And why they should have a legitimate role in society?”

I mean you even said you were taught about the dangers of extremism, how can you discern those dangers if you don’t know they’re morally wrong?
 
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Aesma
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:04 pm

In France schools teach morals and civics (since more than a century).

examples of the topics :

good and bad
right and wrong
dignity
individual freedom and its limits
politeness
fraternity
solidarity
justice
 
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mbmbos
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:43 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Are schools in the business of teaching what is morally wrong? I cannot recall being taught what was "morally right and wrong" in school or university. Instead, we were taught knowledge. We covered the holocaust of jewish people in WWII, slavery, and many other disturbing topics, as facts about human history and the dangers of extremism. If public schools start a litany of what is "right and wrong," where does it stop? Is that even the role of a public school? It sounds like a church topic.


Yes they are. And they have done so forever. Our school systems have taught the horror of the Holocaust and the horrors of U.S. slavery and they have certainly supported their accounts in moral terms. Let's not be simplistic here. Most civilizations teach that murder is morally wrong, that stealing is morally wrong, etc. Many of our public schools have taught that slavery is morally wrong and they should continue to do so.
 
wingman
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:21 pm

In the US some people, including some on this forum, just want to present slavery and the holocaust with facts and pictures and then instruct the children to go to their parents and churches to find out if any of those practices/events were negative in any way. Or you could take the Vegas shooting and say "look, this guy shot 50+ people from his hotel room but it's hard to say if there might've been some justification. One could argue that country music is crap and maybe he had a good reason to shut down the event by doing what he did..is there a right or wrong here? For that answer children, please ask your preacher next Sunday". Hell, why even discipline kids, just let them go full Lord of the Flies and the parents can sort it out on their own.
 
bennett123
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:51 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws

All this was legal, does that mean it was OK?.
 
afcjets
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:52 pm

afcjets wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Are schools in the business of teaching what is morally wrong? I cannot recall being taught what was "morally right and wrong" in school or university. Instead, we were taught knowledge. We covered the holocaust of jewish people in WWII, slavery, and many other disturbing topics, as facts about human history and the dangers of extremism. If public schools start a litany of what is "right and wrong," where does it stop? Is that even the role of a public school? It sounds like a church topic.


I can't either, except for the issue of cheating in school.


I actually have thought of some more. Schools taught and should continue to teach lying, stealing, cheating and violence (outside acts of war) are morally wrong. You couldn't maintain order in a classroom without observing these universal basic principles of right and wrong. I would consider any form of slavery or keeping someone against their will as a form of violence. So if kidnapping isn't considered violence add that to the list. Teaching those basic principles of right and wrong clearly shows slavery and the KKK are morally wrong. I would also add vandalism or destruction of property if they're not considered acts of violence.

When I was in first grade everyone was taught what I have since heard is a fable. It involves George Washington as a kid, his dad and a cherry tree and the virtue of always telling the truth. Just curious, is that story still taught today?
 
wingman
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:36 am

If it is Donald Trump and 70M Americans must’ve missed school that day with some ailment or other. The fortunate ones probably got a doctor’s note.
 
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seb146
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Thu Jul 22, 2021 2:05 am

I am still doing research but I heard an interview this afternoon that many "regular" Southerners didn't want or approve of the Civil War because many lower and middle class White people did not own slaves. The Civil War was mainly for plantation owners to keep owning people. Also, the Confederacy had a draft and executed deserters regularly. From what I have read so far, executions for desertion was rare and was handed down as punishment just because.

https://encyclopediavirginia.org/entrie ... civil-war/

It was another "rich man's war, poor man's fight". Like with so many conflicts, the very wealthy did not have to worry about them or their children actually seeing any service.

https://www.fords.org/blog/post/civil-w ... ans-fight/

Edit for link
 
afcjets
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:46 am

wingman wrote:
If it is Donald Trump and 70M Americans must’ve missed school that day with some ailment or other. The fortunate ones probably got a doctor’s note.


Like I said, it helps maintain order in a classroom. It kept me as a first grader from lying. It wore off by high school when we would skip school and go out to lunch. Maybe it's not a good idea to teach kids to not lie by telling them one ;)
 
alfa164
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Thu Jul 22, 2021 3:57 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Are schools in the business of teaching what is morally wrong? I cannot recall being taught what was "morally right and wrong" in school or university. Instead, we were taught knowledge. We covered the holocaust of jewish people in WWII, slavery, and many other disturbing topics, as facts about human history and the dangers of extremism. If public schools start a litany of what is "right and wrong," where does it stop? Is that even the role of a public school? It sounds like a church topic.


Aren't these the same people who threw a hissy fit when they discovered the First Amendment prevented them from imposing prayer in public schools... placing the ten commandments (now that's supposed to be a "moral teaching"!) in public places... and allowing bible studies on school property?

Me thinks they have become very selective in their disgust at schools teaching what is "right and wrong".

:roll:
 
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CitizenJustin
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:31 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Are schools in the business of teaching what is morally wrong? I cannot recall being taught what was "morally right and wrong" in school or university. Instead, we were taught knowledge. We covered the holocaust of jewish people in WWII, slavery, and many other disturbing topics, as facts about human history and the dangers of extremism. If public schools start a litany of what is "right and wrong," where does it stop? Is that even the role of a public school? It sounds like a church topic.



So you have a problem with a teacher telling students that slavery and racism are immoral? We know for a fact that murder is immoral so would you also have a problem with them teaching that? The immorality of slavery/racism should be just as obvious as murder.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:43 pm

CitizenJustin wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Are schools in the business of teaching what is morally wrong? I cannot recall being taught what was "morally right and wrong" in school or university. Instead, we were taught knowledge. We covered the holocaust of jewish people in WWII, slavery, and many other disturbing topics, as facts about human history and the dangers of extremism. If public schools start a litany of what is "right and wrong," where does it stop? Is that even the role of a public school? It sounds like a church topic.



So you have a problem with a teacher telling students that slavery and racism are immoral? We know for a fact that murder is immoral so would you also have a problem with them teaching that? The immorality of slavery/racism should be just as obvious as murder.


Good example. Do public schools teach that murder is immoral? What class? That’s what I was getting at. I think teachers do make well intentioned moral speeches from time to time. But that can be a slippery slope, getting for example if the teacher is a political nut, a Qanon person, super pro-life, or NAMBLA or whatever lol.
 
Ken777
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:56 am

Ban MLK's "I have a dream" speech turns Texas into a Nightmare.

The Texas GOP is totally out of morals.
 
T4thH
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:14 am

Still a fascists' or already far beyond? It is a good question...isn't it?
 
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seb146
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Re: TX Senate Bill Drops Teaching Requirement That KKK Is ‘Morally Wrong’

Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:41 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
CitizenJustin wrote:
LCDFlight wrote:
Are schools in the business of teaching what is morally wrong? I cannot recall being taught what was "morally right and wrong" in school or university. Instead, we were taught knowledge. We covered the holocaust of jewish people in WWII, slavery, and many other disturbing topics, as facts about human history and the dangers of extremism. If public schools start a litany of what is "right and wrong," where does it stop? Is that even the role of a public school? It sounds like a church topic.



So you have a problem with a teacher telling students that slavery and racism are immoral? We know for a fact that murder is immoral so would you also have a problem with them teaching that? The immorality of slavery/racism should be just as obvious as murder.


Good example. Do public schools teach that murder is immoral? What class? That’s what I was getting at. I think teachers do make well intentioned moral speeches from time to time. But that can be a slippery slope, getting for example if the teacher is a political nut, a Qanon person, super pro-life, or NAMBLA or whatever lol.


I had a civics-type class my junior year of high school. The teacher taught basic Constitutional history and basic law and critical thinking. Nothing deep like critical race theory but just general things like "this amendment was passed because...." and "these laws were put in place because...." Every Friday, he let us debate a specific topic. The two I remember were abortion and gay equality. He only inserted himself in the debate when class ended. Never did those debates ever come to blows, nor was any foul language used. That was really the only time the "slippery slope" happened in our school was with that class.

I would also think that open members of NAMBLA would not be in any kind of position of power anyway...

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