So, as I was reviewing my checking account for the last month, I found a deposit from the IRS that I wasn’t expecting.

Knowing that the US government would not send someone like us…an actual tax paying family…free money, I quickly found that it was the Advanced Child Tax Credit.

So, we decided that we did not want this advance. Why? Because we have structured our tax strategy to pay a small amount on April 15th, vs. receiving a refund. Taking this advance would just increase the size of check I would be writing in April.

So, opting out, my wife and I, each, had to open an IRS account using the ID.me service. Wow.

User name and password. Not too onerous.
Verify with an email.
Select a multi-factor authorization method.
Confirm that.
Upload an image of an ID…passport or drivers license. Hmmmm, that’s strange.
Take a freaking selfie so the system can compare the selfie to your submitted ID. What?!
Then submit your SSN in order to verify…what?

Then you can opt out for your half of the credit. Then the spouse has to do the same. Oh, by the way, are you absolutely sure you want to opt-out…really?

How about we make everyone have to OPT-IN instead of having to OPT-OUT.

Freaking ridiculous.

Life's a real bitch, but when you compound the issue with the burdens of the First World it becomes almost unbearable.

Heads up - document verification is the next big fraud prevention thing, get used to it. If it's a requirement for voting it's going to be a requirement to fart in your own bed pretty soon.

wingman wrote:

Life's a real bitch, but when you compound the issue with the burdens of the First World it becomes almost unbearable.

Heads up - document verification is the next big fraud prevention thing, get used to it. If it's a requirement for voting it's going to be a requirement to fart in your own bed pretty soon.

My actual point, wasn’t so much the verification, it was the fact that I had to opt-out. With stuff that is out of the norm…such as these advances…we should have to opt-in.

I guarantee that folks that don’t pay attention will be in for quite the surprise in April.

And, I’d be a fan of online voting if the process was at least this onerous…every time you want to vote.

fr8mech wrote:

wingman wrote:

Life's a real bitch, but when you compound the issue with the burdens of the First World it becomes almost unbearable.

Heads up - document verification is the next big fraud prevention thing, get used to it. If it's a requirement for voting it's going to be a requirement to fart in your own bed pretty soon.

My actual point, wasn’t so much the verification, it was the fact that I had to opt-out. With stuff that is out of the norm…such as these advances…we should have to opt-in.

I guarantee that folks that don’t pay attention will be in for quite the surprise in April.

And, I’d be a fan of online voting if the process was at least this onerous…every time you want to vote.

The credit payout is designed so that next April’s filing is not affected unless household size and income change substantially.

fr8mech wrote:

My actual point, wasn’t so much the verification, it was the fact that I had to opt-out. With stuff that is out of the norm…such as these advances…we should have to opt-in.

I guarantee that folks that don’t pay attention will be in for quite the surprise in April.

And, I’d be a fan of online voting if the process was at least this onerous…every time you want to vote.

I'm with you there. I think the vast majority of Americans are in favor of verified, fraud-free voting. If it takes proving your ID with verified ID then so be it. So long as legitimate Americans that don't drive or travel can easily obtain the ID and then easily and safely make it to a voting place that is as convenient for them as it is for everyone else in their state.

As to these credits, I live in a world of heavily regulated consumer protection rights. Opt in and opt out strategies always have their pros and cons. I'd argue that opt in is nice in this case where many people may need the money to put food in the mouths of their children. Their burden is greater than yours and so it should be "automatic" for them to get the money they need. Be thankful you don't need the help! Any joking aside, I'm glad to see that you're well enough to gripe about the small things.

So are you saying you're getting a tax credit that you're not eligible for ?

Aesma wrote:

So are you saying you're getting a tax credit that you're not eligible for ?

The way I read it is he’s getting a tax credit he’s eligible for but doesn’t want it because he thinks it will increase what he has to pay back in April. This is then refuted by Aaron747 who say not correct, Aaron is a knows everything so he’s probably correct.

In France we just have transitioned to a similar way to pay income tax (through the paycheck) when before we paid manually and a year later, so we have now potential refunds, and tax credits that are credited in advance, more helpful that getting them a year later. One very big tax credit is when you employ a nanny for small kids, it can be something like 6000€, so you must be careful to notify the taxman when your kids go to school instead, otherwise you end up with receiving that amount in January, then owing it back a few months later.

Aesma wrote:

So are you saying you're getting a tax credit that you're not eligible for ?

No, I am eligible, I just don’t want it right now. We structure our tax strategy very carefully.

Edit: we’re probably no longer eligible based on our new income. So, we don’t need this money, both in the short term, nor as part of our tax strategy.

This year, my wife received a big promotion which has changed our situation a bit. This advance money would just make it more messy (messier?)

My point, and I stand by it, when there is a change from the norm, the affected folks should have to opt-in, not opt-out.

I’ll add, that it should be harder to get [free] money from the government than it is to refuse it.

I am not sure I understand the issue here. The Child Tax Credit has always resulted in larger withholdings while doing taxes. The IRS is just prepaying half the money back that is usually refunded at the end of the year. Rather than an issue with having the government keep too much of your money for too long, we are in fact getting half the money back early. The downside is that we may have to write a check in April of next year, but for now, I just put it into my bank account.

wingman wrote:

fr8mech wrote:

And, I’d be a fan of online voting if the process was at least this onerous…every time you want to vote.

I'm with you there. I think the vast majority of Americans are in favor of verified, fraud-free voting. If it takes proving your ID with verified ID then so be it. So long as legitimate Americans that don't drive or travel can easily obtain the ID and then easily and safely make it to a voting place that is as convenient for them as it is for everyone else in their state.

As to these credits, I live in a world of heavily regulated consumer protection rights. Opt in and opt out strategies always have their pros and cons. I'd argue that opt in is nice in this case where many people may need the money to put food in the mouths of their children. Their burden is greater than yours and so it should be "automatic" for them to get the money they need. Be thankful you don't need the help! Any joking aside, I'm glad to see that you're well enough to gripe about the small things.

I've always thought that conservatives loves to make voting "onerous" for folks of color - it's a generational obsession and the GOP is outdoing themselves this year because their "God" lost the election by 7,000,000 votes.

Amazing that I can walk in to vote, show this card that is easy to duplicate on an inkjet printer and immediately get a ballot. But then I'm white so tasty is normal.

Maybe we need data on every voter and every applicant to become a voter, Publish information on what colors get to vote snd which don't. Racism is a national disgrace and I am basically ashamed of my country because of this abuse by the racists.

They are vote buying / breeding payments. And they are being given in an all time high income year. This is completely ludicrous and cuckoo. It is setting us up for disaster as soon as 2022.

Let’s just say a lot of bass boats will be repossessed in 2022. Private security teams relating to eviction will be a growth industry. Even the liquor industry will be feeling the pinch in 2022. Those huge tax refunds that usually come in April? They won’t be there unless they are replaced (that money will have already been spent on bass boats and whiskey).

LCDFlight wrote:

They are vote buying / breeding payments. And they are being given in an all time high income year. This is completely ludicrous and cuckoo. It is setting us up for disaster as soon as 2022.

Let’s just say a lot of bass boats will be repossessed in 2022. Private security teams relating to eviction will be a growth industry. Even the liquor industry will be feeling the pinch in 2022. Those huge tax refunds that usually come in April? They won’t be there unless they are replaced (that money will have already been spent on bass boats and whiskey).

Well, if you go with the logic of some Conservatives, it would be their goal to have vote buying and breeding payments. They are the ones that claim democrats are not family oriented.

As for the other items, these are things higher minimum wages can take care of, and a growing economy.

casinterest wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

They are vote buying / breeding payments. And they are being given in an all time high income year. This is completely ludicrous and cuckoo. It is setting us up for disaster as soon as 2022.

Let’s just say a lot of bass boats will be repossessed in 2022. Private security teams relating to eviction will be a growth industry. Even the liquor industry will be feeling the pinch in 2022. Those huge tax refunds that usually come in April? They won’t be there unless they are replaced (that money will have already been spent on bass boats and whiskey).

Well, if you go with the logic of some Conservatives, it would be their goal to have vote buying and breeding payments. They are the ones that claim democrats are not family oriented.

As for the other items, these are things higher minimum wages can take care of, and a growing economy.

Higher minimum wages mostly help privileged people by guaranteeing low skilled people are illegal to employ in a low wage setting. The theory is just like “Fair trade.” Avoid doing business with poor people. Just do business with the affluent people like us. Right?

LCDFlight wrote:

casinterest wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

They are vote buying / breeding payments. And they are being given in an all time high income year. This is completely ludicrous and cuckoo. It is setting us up for disaster as soon as 2022.

Let’s just say a lot of bass boats will be repossessed in 2022. Private security teams relating to eviction will be a growth industry. Even the liquor industry will be feeling the pinch in 2022. Those huge tax refunds that usually come in April? They won’t be there unless they are replaced (that money will have already been spent on bass boats and whiskey).

Well, if you go with the logic of some Conservatives, it would be their goal to have vote buying and breeding payments. They are the ones that claim democrats are not family oriented.

As for the other items, these are things higher minimum wages can take care of, and a growing economy.

Higher minimum wages mostly help privileged people by guaranteeing low skilled people are illegal to employ in a low wage setting. The theory is just like “Fair trade.” Avoid doing business with poor people. Just do business with the affluent people like us. Right?

No , A higher minimum wage is needed to keep the tax code equal. When we pay people below living wages, we have to keep on giving out tax breaks and social programs. Livable wages would reduce the overhead of people gaming the system in poverty.

casinterest wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Well, if you go with the logic of some Conservatives, it would be their goal to have vote buying and breeding payments. They are the ones that claim democrats are not family oriented.

As for the other items, these are things higher minimum wages can take care of, and a growing economy.

Higher minimum wages mostly help privileged people by guaranteeing low skilled people are illegal to employ in a low wage setting. The theory is just like “Fair trade.” Avoid doing business with poor people. Just do business with the affluent people like us. Right?

No , A higher minimum wage is needed to keep the tax code equal. When we pay people below living wages, we have to keep on giving out tax breaks and social programs. Livable wages would reduce the overhead of people gaming the system in poverty.

It's rather incredible how such simple macroeconomic points are lost on so many. While small businesses often worry about whether they can afford to pay higher wages, increasing consumption and discretionary spending power can benefit small businesses a lot if increases impact many in their local community.

LCDFlight wrote:

They are vote buying / breeding payments. And they are being given in an all time high income year. This is completely ludicrous and cuckoo. It is setting us up for disaster as soon as 2022.

Let’s just say a lot of bass boats will be repossessed in 2022. Private security teams relating to eviction will be a growth industry. Even the liquor industry will be feeling the pinch in 2022. Those huge tax refunds that usually come in April? They won’t be there unless they are replaced (that money will have already been spent on bass boats and whiskey).

You do know the birth rate is declining because people can not afford to raise children, right?

seb146 wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

They are vote buying / breeding payments. And they are being given in an all time high income year. This is completely ludicrous and cuckoo. It is setting us up for disaster as soon as 2022.

Let’s just say a lot of bass boats will be repossessed in 2022. Private security teams relating to eviction will be a growth industry. Even the liquor industry will be feeling the pinch in 2022. Those huge tax refunds that usually come in April? They won’t be there unless they are replaced (that money will have already been spent on bass boats and whiskey).

You do know the birth rate is declining because people can not afford to raise children, right?

It's a bit more complicated than that. Women having careers and putting off having kids is another major reason.

Kiwirob wrote:

seb146 wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

They are vote buying / breeding payments. And they are being given in an all time high income year. This is completely ludicrous and cuckoo. It is setting us up for disaster as soon as 2022.

Let’s just say a lot of bass boats will be repossessed in 2022. Private security teams relating to eviction will be a growth industry. Even the liquor industry will be feeling the pinch in 2022. Those huge tax refunds that usually come in April? They won’t be there unless they are replaced (that money will have already been spent on bass boats and whiskey).

You do know the birth rate is declining because people can not afford to raise children, right?

It's a bit more complicated than that. Women having careers and putting off having kids is another major reason.

Yea i was gonna say, pretty sure women being in the workforce has something to do with it as well

stl07 wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

seb146 wrote:

You do know the birth rate is declining because people can not afford to raise children, right?

It's a bit more complicated than that. Women having careers and putting off having kids is another major reason.

Yea i was gonna say, pretty sure women being in the workforce has something to do with it as well

Those darned women deciding what they can and can not do with their bodies.

So what? We have no kids. We think it is great that families with children get more money for things like food and housing. To raise children, it takes money that many people simply do not have even working two or three jobs. Why is it a bad thing to help people? Aren't we a Christian nation? That is the line the right loves to scream. We are a Christian nation and a nation of Biblical law, so let's start acting like it. That the poor are just as important as the rich. That the sick are just as important as the healthy. That the least are as important as the greatest.

But we can't because socialism or something.....

Kiwirob wrote:

seb146 wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

They are vote buying / breeding payments. And they are being given in an all time high income year. This is completely ludicrous and cuckoo. It is setting us up for disaster as soon as 2022.

Let’s just say a lot of bass boats will be repossessed in 2022. Private security teams relating to eviction will be a growth industry. Even the liquor industry will be feeling the pinch in 2022. Those huge tax refunds that usually come in April? They won’t be there unless they are replaced (that money will have already been spent on bass boats and whiskey).

You do know the birth rate is declining because people can not afford to raise children, right?

It's a bit more complicated than that. Women having careers and putting off having kids is another major reason.

Both are related.

Households gradually getting double income drives up housing and childcare costs.

Kiwirob wrote:

seb146 wrote:

LCDFlight wrote:

They are vote buying / breeding payments. And they are being given in an all time high income year. This is completely ludicrous and cuckoo. It is setting us up for disaster as soon as 2022.

Let’s just say a lot of bass boats will be repossessed in 2022. Private security teams relating to eviction will be a growth industry. Even the liquor industry will be feeling the pinch in 2022. Those huge tax refunds that usually come in April? They won’t be there unless they are replaced (that money will have already been spent on bass boats and whiskey).

You do know the birth rate is declining because people can not afford to raise children, right?

It's a bit more complicated than that. Women having careers and putting off having kids is another major reason.

IMO work-based tax credits for children are often a good idea. It depends on the total tax structure. People do what will get their basic needs met. If we make the welfare lifestyle workable, that is exactly what most people will do. And the results so far are just horrible.

In my town, the results of welfare are exceptionally bad. We need to evaluate the effects of welfare policy honestly. Many welfare programs are an absolute tragedy for children.

IMO various income distributions can be achieved via tax. But our system that rewards and celebrates tragedy, vice and blight is having bad results. We all want kids to have a healthy upbringing. According to the data, that generally means two married parents in the home, at least one of whom works full time and pays taxes.

LCDFlight wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

seb146 wrote:

You do know the birth rate is declining because people can not afford to raise children, right?

It's a bit more complicated than that. Women having careers and putting off having kids is another major reason.

IMO work-based tax credits for children are often a good idea. It depends on the total tax structure. People do what will get their basic needs met. If we make the welfare lifestyle workable, that is exactly what most people will do. And the results so far are just horrible.

In my town, the results of welfare are exceptionally bad. We need to evaluate the effects of welfare policy honestly. Many welfare programs are an absolute tragedy for children.

IMO various income distributions can be achieved via tax. But our system that rewards and celebrates tragedy, vice and blight is having bad results. We all want kids to have a healthy upbringing. According to the data, that generally means two married parents in the home, at least one of whom works full time and pays taxes.

Where is my eye roll emoji?

Growing up, both my parents worked full time and paid taxes and it was a toxic household. There were times when only one of my parents had a full time job and my brothers and I had to eat government food and government subsidized lunches and breakfasts at school. Thousands of kids a day do this. What a tragedy.

Parents are working right now and paying taxes and can not meet their basic needs for their family. But, because a small group of adults abuse the system, that means no one should have anything. There are plenty of wealthy people who squander their money on vices and ignore their children. So should we just take away their income? Or should we just not care because they are not on welfare?

seb146 wrote:

stl07 wrote:

Kiwirob wrote:

It's a bit more complicated than that. Women having careers and putting off having kids is another major reason.

Yea i was gonna say, pretty sure women being in the workforce has something to do with it as well

Those darned women deciding what they can and can not do with their bodies.

So what? We have no kids. We think it is great that families with children get more money for things like food and housing. To raise children, it takes money that many people simply do not have even working two or three jobs. Why is it a bad thing to help people? Aren't we a Christian nation? That is the line the right loves to scream. We are a Christian nation and a nation of Biblical law, so let's start acting like it. That the poor are just as important as the rich. That the sick are just as important as the healthy. That the least are as important as the greatest.

But we can't because socialism or something.....

I know how much kids cost we have three of them, the ginger ninja is 10, the mean one is 13 and mr muscles is 16.