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New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:14 am

Documentary Filmmaker Blows The Lid Off Controversy In ‘The Boys In Red Hats’

https://www.forbes.com/sites/adawson/20 ... -red-hats/

No one was more embarrassed or angered by the footage than Jonathan Schroder, a filmmaker and graduate of the historic and prestigious all-boys school in Northern Kentucky. Schroder wasn’t an enthusiastic supporter of the school, having had a falling out with a teacher who allegedly struck him in class for talking during his senior year. But he was curious to find out what led up to the “smirk heard round the world,” so he sought out and found more than two hours of footage leading up to the Lincoln Memorial confrontation, which gave him a different perspective on the events of that day.

But the incident involving Sandmann and Phillips struck a chord with Schroder, who set out to make documentary that would enlighten viewers as to what really happened that winter day in Washington, how it was covered and why there is often more to a story than meets the eye.


It's the story that keep on giving... Enter Sandmann !!!

That was quite a day for America. But I believe all MSM news coverage is biased and agenda driven anyway, no matter what they claim, or tout, or insist otherwise.
 
NIKV69
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:38 pm

Interesting the "speed over accuracy" angle in the article. It rears it's ugly head a lot like the Olympic park bombing and Duke Lacrosse case. There is also the other motive when it comes to "white privilege" I am glad CNN and the WaPo had to pay Sandmann.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:09 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Interesting the "speed over accuracy" angle in the article. It rears it's ugly head a lot like the Olympic park bombing and Duke Lacrosse case. There is also the other motive when it comes to "white privilege" I am glad CNN and the WaPo had to pay Sandmann.


Anytime editorial rooms have to check their practices and refocus on accuracy is a good thing.

What was disturbing about the Sandmann incident and *didn’t* get enough press was that reactions to it revealed there was still a lot of anti-Indian sentiment out there, particularly in red states.

US media in general, whether left or right leaning, tend to largely ignore core native American issues.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:33 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Interesting the "speed over accuracy" angle in the article. It rears it's ugly head a lot like the Olympic park bombing and Duke Lacrosse case. There is also the other motive when it comes to "white privilege" I am glad CNN and the WaPo had to pay Sandmann.

They paid him a charitable pittance to go away. He had no case.
 
FGITD
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:24 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
They paid him a charitable pittance to go away. He had no case.


Not that I think there’s some greater scheme at play, and the networks deserved it…I did find it quite odd just how quickly everything played out in regards to the lawsuits.

And also the fact the kid ended up with a job on McConells re-election campaign. Granted it was probably some nonsense job for the publicity but the whole thing was a little suspect
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:32 am

FGITD wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
They paid him a charitable pittance to go away. He had no case.


Not that I think there’s some greater scheme at play, and the networks deserved it…I did find it quite odd just how quickly everything played out in regards to the lawsuits.

And also the fact the kid ended up with a job on McConells re-election campaign. Granted it was probably some nonsense job for the publicity but the whole thing was a little suspect


His parents definitely know how to work it. Also Mr. Phillips indicated in interviews after that he felt Sandmann's actions and performance were 'coached' afterward and that's why he forgave him.

https://www.today.com/news/nathan-phill ... al-t147369
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Wed Jul 28, 2021 1:15 am

Has the kid done anything positive towards native americans since then, to alleviate any doubts we might have ?
 
flyguy89
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:16 am

Aaron747 wrote:
FGITD wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
They paid him a charitable pittance to go away. He had no case.


Not that I think there’s some greater scheme at play, and the networks deserved it…I did find it quite odd just how quickly everything played out in regards to the lawsuits.

And also the fact the kid ended up with a job on McConells re-election campaign. Granted it was probably some nonsense job for the publicity but the whole thing was a little suspect


His parents definitely know how to work it. Also Mr. Phillips indicated in interviews after that he felt Sandmann's actions and performance were 'coached' afterward and that's why he forgave him.

https://www.today.com/news/nathan-phill ... al-t147369

Phillips was equally culpable in my view. Even after the facts came to light, he continued restating the same disproven mis-truths about it to every media outlet that stuck a mic in his face. Phillips himself misjudged and misinterpreted the situation which happens sometimes, we’re human…and I’m sure he never thought it would all blow up like it did, yet he never recalibrated his statements once the mitigating facts surfaced.
 
NIKV69
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:29 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Interesting the "speed over accuracy" angle in the article. It rears it's ugly head a lot like the Olympic park bombing and Duke Lacrosse case. There is also the other motive when it comes to "white privilege" I am glad CNN and the WaPo had to pay Sandmann.

They paid him a charitable pittance to go away. He had no case.


Any source on this? Or just sour grapes that CNN and WaPo got caught in one of their smear campaigns on a poor kid.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:22 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Interesting the "speed over accuracy" angle in the article. It rears it's ugly head a lot like the Olympic park bombing and Duke Lacrosse case. There is also the other motive when it comes to "white privilege" I am glad CNN and the WaPo had to pay Sandmann.

They paid him a charitable pittance to go away. He had no case.


Any source on this? Or just sour grapes that CNN and WaPo got caught in one of their smear campaigns on a poor kid.


https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2 ... 841278001/

The judge in the case ruled that Sandmann's basis for the suits were "not supported by the plain language in the article, which states none of these things" he ruled.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:32 pm

seb146 wrote:

The judge in the case ruled that Sandmann's basis for the suits were "not supported by the plain language in the article, which states none of these things" he ruled.


We know this already but they paid to settle after.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... story.html
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:37 pm

seb146 wrote:
https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2019/07/26/nick-sandmann-lawsuit-against-washington-post-dismissed-federal-judge-trump/1841278001/
The judge in the case ruled that Sandmann's basis for the suits were "not supported by the plain language in the article, which states none of these things" he ruled.


Thus the judge saw it as as a case with limited merit, giving the defendants an opportunity to buy their way out of it cheaply. I've seen many "nuisance" suits ending this way, and agreeing to keep the settlement sealed allows the plaintiff to crow about "winning" while, in fact, only barely saving face.


Aesma wrote:
Has the kid done anything positive towards native americans since then, to alleviate any doubts we might have ?


Well... of course not.

Doesn't Sandmann remind you of the smug little rich mama's boy we all hated in high school?
Last edited by alfa164 on Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Wed Jul 28, 2021 3:40 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

The judge in the case ruled that Sandmann's basis for the suits were "not supported by the plain language in the article, which states none of these things" he ruled.


We know this already but they paid to settle after.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... story.html


So it was charity on the part of WaPo. They gave money when they didn't have to. They went above and beyond. When you are told how hated and how you constantly lie, even though none of that is true, you have to work even harder. Spin it how you will, but WaPo didn't have to pay him anything. He lost.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Wed Jul 28, 2021 4:21 pm

seb146 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

The judge in the case ruled that Sandmann's basis for the suits were "not supported by the plain language in the article, which states none of these things" he ruled.


We know this already but they paid to settle after.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... story.html


So it was charity on the part of WaPo. They gave money when they didn't have to. They went above and beyond. When you are told how hated and how you constantly lie, even though none of that is true, you have to work even harder. Spin it how you will, but WaPo didn't have to pay him anything. He lost.

Also remember he was represented by Lin Wood, who is an idiot crackpot, even by MAGA standards
https://twitter.com/RespectableLaw/stat ... 9255710720
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Wed Jul 28, 2021 11:50 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

The judge in the case ruled that Sandmann's basis for the suits were "not supported by the plain language in the article, which states none of these things" he ruled.


We know this already but they paid to settle after.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... story.html


A standard legal maneuver to ward off future nuisance suit filings. Paid to go away, not because there was any merit. Companies do this more often than you think - they want attorneys spending their expensive time on cases that matter.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:02 am

Aesma wrote:
Has the kid done anything positive towards native americans since then, to alleviate any doubts we might have ?


You think the burden of proof is on this kid to prove to you he's not racist towards Native Americans? Some obnoxious grown man makes a bee line for him while banging drums and gets right up in his face. I agree though after getting an eight figure settlement (which might end up becoming nine figures), I would at least send the guy a thank you note and buy him a house or some other small gesture.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:05 am

alfa164 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Has the kid done anything positive towards native americans since then, to alleviate any doubts we might have ?


Well... of course not.

Doesn't Sandmann remind you of the smug little rich mama's boy we all hated in high school?


He's rich now that's for sure, but thanks for personifying social justice and showing why facts don't matter anymore to too many Americans.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:15 am

Aaron747 wrote:
A standard legal maneuver to ward off future nuisance suit filings. Paid to go away, not because there was any merit. Companies do this more often than you think - they want attorneys spending their expensive time on cases that matter.


Oh yes, the best way to deter future frivolous lawsuits is to settle lawsuits that have no merit. :rotfl:

This is the most high profile lawsuit in CNN's history, or at least tied with Richard Jewel. This case sorta mattered, trust me.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:22 am

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
A standard legal maneuver to ward off future nuisance suit filings. Paid to go away, not because there was any merit. Companies do this more often than you think - they want attorneys spending their expensive time on cases that matter.


Oh yes, the best way to deter future frivolous lawsuits is to settle lawsuits that have no merit. :rotfl:

This is the most high profile lawsuit in CNN's history, or at least tied with Richard Jewel. This case sorta mattered, trust me.


Frivolous and nuisance are not the same thing. It was clear the dude’s parents would attempt to sue multiple times for multiple assumed effects from the companies’ editorial errors. The latter did occur, that is also not in question.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:26 am

afcjets wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Has the kid done anything positive towards native americans since then, to alleviate any doubts we might have ?


You think the burden of proof is on this kid to prove to you he's not racist towards Native Americans? Some obnoxious grown man makes a bee line for him while banging drums and gets right up in his face. I agree though after getting an eight figure settlement (which might end up becoming nine figures), I would at least send the guy a thank you note and buy him a house or some other small gesture.


Curious why you characterize Mr. Phillips as ‘obnoxious grown man’? He stood up for his community’s future with Standing Rock, he organizes events for Indian veterans, and works to make his community’s social problems better mitigated and understood. That sounds like a bulwark of a man, hardly obnoxious.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:33 am

alfa164 wrote:

Doesn't Sandmann remind you of the smug little rich mama's boy we all hated in high school?


No he was just a kid that the media wanted to use the "white privilege" propaganda term to destroy him. It backfired on them with Duke Lacrosse and it backfired here yet they still run with stories that are complete crap.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:42 am

NIKV69 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

Doesn't Sandmann remind you of the smug little rich mama's boy we all hated in high school?


No he was just a kid that the media wanted to use the "white privilege" propaganda term to destroy him. It backfired on them with Duke Lacrosse and it backfired here yet they still run with stories that are complete crap.


I went to school with braggarts who paraded their 16th-birthday present BMW around the school parking lot. Guess you didn’t. I assure you, everyone hated them.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 2:31 am

Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

Doesn't Sandmann remind you of the smug little rich mama's boy we all hated in high school?


No he was just a kid that the media wanted to use the "white privilege" propaganda term to destroy him. It backfired on them with Duke Lacrosse and it backfired here yet they still run with stories that are complete crap.


I went to school with braggarts who paraded their 16th-birthday present BMW around the school parking lot. Guess you didn’t. I assure you, everyone hated them.

The point is, you don’t know the kid to be able to make those kinds of assertions about him. "He looks smug" or "looks like a rich mama’s boy" or "he’s the kind of jerk I hated in school," all completely baseless accusations. This "notoriety" was quite literally thrust upon him, and for what exactly? He did absolutely nothing in that situation to warrant the vitriol unleashed on him.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:13 am

flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

No he was just a kid that the media wanted to use the "white privilege" propaganda term to destroy him. It backfired on them with Duke Lacrosse and it backfired here yet they still run with stories that are complete crap.


I went to school with braggarts who paraded their 16th-birthday present BMW around the school parking lot. Guess you didn’t. I assure you, everyone hated them.

The point is, you don’t know the kid to be able to make those kinds of assertions about him. "He looks smug" or "looks like a rich mama’s boy" or "he’s the kind of jerk I hated in school," all completely baseless accusations. This "notoriety" was quite literally thrust upon him, and for what exactly? He did absolutely nothing in that situation to warrant the vitriol unleashed on him.


You are partially correct but we can extrapolate about his peer group and environment from the behavior on display that day:

https://twitter.com/rachbarnhart/status ... 91328?s=21

As many commented at the time, where were the adult chaperones? No Catholic school attendees I know would have been allowed to carry on and disrespect another culture so gleefully. Openly mocking native chants is not pious or respectful behavior.
Last edited by Aaron747 on Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:14 am

afcjets wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Has the kid done anything positive towards native americans since then, to alleviate any doubts we might have ?


Well... of course not.

Doesn't Sandmann remind you of the smug little rich mama's boy we all hated in high school?


He's rich now that's for sure, but thanks for personifying social justice and showing why facts don't matter anymore to too many Americans.

He's not rich. Did you not read the entire rest of this thread? He had no case and was represented by Lin Wood. He was paid a pittance to scram because it was cheaper than lighting him up.

flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

No he was just a kid that the media wanted to use the "white privilege" propaganda term to destroy him. It backfired on them with Duke Lacrosse and it backfired here yet they still run with stories that are complete crap.


I went to school with braggarts who paraded their 16th-birthday present BMW around the school parking lot. Guess you didn’t. I assure you, everyone hated them.

The point is, you don’t know the kid to be able to make those kinds of assertions about him. "He looks smug" or "looks like a rich mama’s boy" or "he’s the kind of jerk I hated in school," all completely baseless accusations. This "notoriety" was quite literally thrust upon him, and for what exactly? He did absolutely nothing in that situation to warrant the vitriol unleashed on him.

He's a MAGA chud from a catholic school. Turns out everything was pretty accurate but the MAGA swamp attracts a certain type.
 
flyguy89
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:18 am

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

I went to school with braggarts who paraded their 16th-birthday present BMW around the school parking lot. Guess you didn’t. I assure you, everyone hated them.

The point is, you don’t know the kid to be able to make those kinds of assertions about him. "He looks smug" or "looks like a rich mama’s boy" or "he’s the kind of jerk I hated in school," all completely baseless accusations. This "notoriety" was quite literally thrust upon him, and for what exactly? He did absolutely nothing in that situation to warrant the vitriol unleashed on him.


You are partially correct but we can extrapolate about his peer group and environment from the behavior on display that day:

https://twitter.com/rachbarnhart/status ... 91328?s=21

As many commented at the time, where were the adult chaperones? No Catholic school attendees I know would have been allowed to carry on and disrespect another culture so gleefully. Openly mocking native chants is not pious or respectful behavior.

I don’t exactly know what you expect a group of high school students to do in a situation where a stranger walks over in the middle of them chanting and beating a drum with no announced intentions. Were these adults I would be inclined to share your opinion, but alas teenage boys goofing off *the HORROR*. All I can say is that I’m certainly glad not to have grown up in an age where every buffoon thing I did as an immature teen didn’t blow up into this kind of tedious overreaching analysis. If that’s the most you can extrapolate…then throw every teen in the trash.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:22 am

flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
The point is, you don’t know the kid to be able to make those kinds of assertions about him. "He looks smug" or "looks like a rich mama’s boy" or "he’s the kind of jerk I hated in school," all completely baseless accusations. This "notoriety" was quite literally thrust upon him, and for what exactly? He did absolutely nothing in that situation to warrant the vitriol unleashed on him.


You are partially correct but we can extrapolate about his peer group and environment from the behavior on display that day:

https://twitter.com/rachbarnhart/status ... 91328?s=21

As many commented at the time, where were the adult chaperones? No Catholic school attendees I know would have been allowed to carry on and disrespect another culture so gleefully. Openly mocking native chants is not pious or respectful behavior.

I don’t exactly know what you expect a group of high school students to do in a situation where a stranger walks over in the middle of them chanting and beating a drum with no announced intentions. Were these adults I would be inclined to share your opinion, but alas teenage boys goofing off *the HORROR*. All I can say is that I’m certainly glad not to have grown up in an age where every buffoon thing I did as an immature teen didn’t blow up into this kind of tedious overreaching analysis. If that’s the most you can extrapolate…then throw every teen in the trash.


Speak for yourself - many of my peers were respectful and never would have treated a Native American man expressing their culture that way. Of course there were a few who would have reacted that way, but I attended a public high school. I think most of us expect for what parents pay and expect of private catholic institutions, the bar would supposedly be higher. It certainly was for relatives and friends of mine who attended such schools. Instead of 'tedious overreaching analysis', it's probably more accurate to say that public high schools in a place like Silicon Valley impart better standards for behavior than private schools in suburban KY. Based on observation, anyway. Interestingly in comparison on niche.com, my high school also ranks better in academics than CCHS.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:50 am

Aaron747 wrote:
Instead of 'tedious overreaching analysis', it's probably more accurate to say that public high schools in a place like Silicon Valley impart better standards for behavior than private schools in suburban KY.

I mean, sure…schools in the wealthiest zip codes of the country? Sure, higher standards, but that’s not where most people live.

Where I do agree with you however was the chaperone situation. Have no idea why they were absent. I actually grew up pretty much just down the street from CCHS…didn’t attend, but knew plenty who did, they were our HS football rivals. I do know a LOT of the parents were furious about the chaperones not being around to tone down the situation and keep their kids out of the thick of that craziness with the Black Hebrew Israelites and Phillips.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 5:59 am

flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Instead of 'tedious overreaching analysis', it's probably more accurate to say that public high schools in a place like Silicon Valley impart better standards for behavior than private schools in suburban KY.

I mean, sure…schools in the wealthiest zip codes of the country? Sure, higher standards, but that’s not where most people live.

Where I do agree with you however was the chaperone situation. Have no idea why they were absent. I actually grew up pretty much just down the street from CCHS…didn’t attend, but knew plenty who did, they were our HS football rivals. I do know a LOT of the parents were furious about the chaperones not being around to tone down the situation and keep their kids out of the thick of that craziness with the Black Hebrew Israelites and Phillips.


At the time I graduated (late 90s), the median household income in my town was $94K. Upper middle class, sure, but not one of the wealthiest zip codes of the country, much less the Bay Area. Just a few towns over there was a town where the median household income was $193K.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:26 am

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
Instead of 'tedious overreaching analysis', it's probably more accurate to say that public high schools in a place like Silicon Valley impart better standards for behavior than private schools in suburban KY.

I mean, sure…schools in the wealthiest zip codes of the country? Sure, higher standards, but that’s not where most people live.

Where I do agree with you however was the chaperone situation. Have no idea why they were absent. I actually grew up pretty much just down the street from CCHS…didn’t attend, but knew plenty who did, they were our HS football rivals. I do know a LOT of the parents were furious about the chaperones not being around to tone down the situation and keep their kids out of the thick of that craziness with the Black Hebrew Israelites and Phillips.


At the time I graduated (late 90s), the median household income in my town was $94K. Upper middle class, sure, but not one of the wealthiest zip codes of the country, much less the Bay Area. Just a few towns over there was a town where the median household income was $193K.

Assuming that’s inflation-adjusted, that’s nearly double the US median around that time.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:25 am

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Has the kid done anything positive towards native americans since then, to alleviate any doubts we might have ?


You think the burden of proof is on this kid to prove to you he's not racist towards Native Americans? Some obnoxious grown man makes a bee line for him while banging drums and gets right up in his face. I agree though after getting an eight figure settlement (which might end up becoming nine figures), I would at least send the guy a thank you note and buy him a house or some other small gesture.


Curious why you characterize Mr. Phillips as ‘obnoxious grown man’? He stood up for his community’s future with Standing Rock, he organizes events for Indian veterans, and works to make his community’s social problems better mitigated and understood. That sounds like a bulwark of a man, hardly obnoxious.


Because what he did was obnoxious. Even had it been to another adult instead of a minor.
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:00 am

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

You think the burden of proof is on this kid to prove to you he's not racist towards Native Americans? Some obnoxious grown man makes a bee line for him while banging drums and gets right up in his face. I agree though after getting an eight figure settlement (which might end up becoming nine figures), I would at least send the guy a thank you note and buy him a house or some other small gesture.


Curious why you characterize Mr. Phillips as ‘obnoxious grown man’? He stood up for his community’s future with Standing Rock, he organizes events for Indian veterans, and works to make his community’s social problems better mitigated and understood. That sounds like a bulwark of a man, hardly obnoxious.


Because what he did was obnoxious. Even had it been to another adult instead of a minor.


It's still very unclear as to how. Obnoxious is defined as 'extremely unpleasant'. By Phillips's telling he was trying to inject some spiritual meaning and healing to a situation he walked into where the CCHS and BHIs were going at it. Oh yes, that sounds incredibly unpleasant :boggled:
 
afcjets
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:59 am

Aaron747 wrote:

It's still very unclear as to how. Obnoxious is defined as 'extremely unpleasant'. By Phillips's telling he was trying to inject some spiritual meaning and healing to a situation he walked into where the CCHS and BHIs were going at it. Oh yes, that sounds incredibly unpleasant :boggled:


I am guessing if Paula Jones walked up to many of you in a similiar situation speaking in tongues and shaking tambourines and got right in your face and held a cross over your head you would find that obnoxious.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 3:26 pm

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

It's still very unclear as to how. Obnoxious is defined as 'extremely unpleasant'. By Phillips's telling he was trying to inject some spiritual meaning and healing to a situation he walked into where the CCHS and BHIs were going at it. Oh yes, that sounds incredibly unpleasant :boggled:


I am guessing if Paula Jones walked up to many of you in a similiar situation speaking in tongues and shaking tambourines and got right in your face and held a cross over your head you would find that obnoxious.

Tambourines and an old man = zomg scary!

Your "hang Mike Pence terrorist" buds wheeling in their portable noose and bludgeoning cops trying to murder them = peaceful tourists nothing 2 C here! :rotfl:
 
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:14 pm

afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

It's still very unclear as to how. Obnoxious is defined as 'extremely unpleasant'. By Phillips's telling he was trying to inject some spiritual meaning and healing to a situation he walked into where the CCHS and BHIs were going at it. Oh yes, that sounds incredibly unpleasant :boggled:


I am guessing if Paula Jones walked up to many of you in a similiar situation speaking in tongues and shaking tambourines and got right in your face and held a cross over your head you would find that obnoxious.


Because there’s no difference between a woman speaking in tongues for no reason and a Native American peace activist...riiiight. Try again?
 
flyguy89
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:29 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Curious why you characterize Mr. Phillips as ‘obnoxious grown man’? He stood up for his community’s future with Standing Rock, he organizes events for Indian veterans, and works to make his community’s social problems better mitigated and understood. That sounds like a bulwark of a man, hardly obnoxious.


Because what he did was obnoxious. Even had it been to another adult instead of a minor.


It's still very unclear as to how. Obnoxious is defined as 'extremely unpleasant'. By Phillips's telling he was trying to inject some spiritual meaning and healing to a situation he walked into where the CCHS and BHIs were going at it. Oh yes, that sounds incredibly unpleasant :boggled:

A grown adult approaching and inserting himself in the middle of a group of underage school kids without saying anything while loudly chanting and banging drums at them is not really normal behavior. It’s certainly bizarre.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:43 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
afcjets wrote:

Because what he did was obnoxious. Even had it been to another adult instead of a minor.


It's still very unclear as to how. Obnoxious is defined as 'extremely unpleasant'. By Phillips's telling he was trying to inject some spiritual meaning and healing to a situation he walked into where the CCHS and BHIs were going at it. Oh yes, that sounds incredibly unpleasant :boggled:

A grown adult approaching and inserting himself in the middle of a group of underage school kids without saying anything while loudly chanting and banging drums at them is not really normal behavior. It’s certainly bizarre.


If you know anything about NA culture, ethics, or spiritual values, it is not bizarre ‘behavior’ at all. I’m sure they find our land management and rampant food waste to be not at all normal behavior too, no?
 
alfa164
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:49 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
Because there’s no difference between a woman speaking in tongues for no reason and a Native American peace activist...riiiight. Try again?


It is important to keep in mind what was happening in Washington that day: an Indigenous Peoples March, of which Mr. Phillips was a part, bringing attention to the loss of right by native peoples all over the world - including our own native tribes - and a "March for Life", an anti-choice demonstration bankrolled by various right-wing groups and political committees (and which Sandman and his ilk were bussed-in to support). The incident happened near the end of the (much smaller) Indigenous group's march. As the New York Times reported, Indigenous Peoples March participants said they had interpreted the "loud chanting" and the size of the group, as well as their MAGA apparel, as "aggressive and disruptive to their demonstration".

Now we can all say, "boys will be boys", but a bigger question for me is why a tax-exempt, church-sponsored institution thought it was a good idea to send children - all under 18 - to any political rally, regardless of its nature. Indoctrinating impressionable minds to your dogma is one thing; sending kids to the front line is always considered to be a bad idea, until someone decides to send them to the front lines to fight the cause you support.

In my eye, Sandman is neither a hero nor a villain; he was a pawn in the debate between two political philosophies. His "education" is an example of the modern school (no pun intended) of thought: fill the children's minds, rather than opening them. In this case, the school bussed warm bodies to a MAGAstic march for a political cause - not to watch and learn, but to shout and participate. It is no wonder that, when they crossed paths with the indigenous rights supporters, there would be conflict. Dogma has no room for any other position.

Shame on the school, and adults who put them in that position - the adults who were nowhere to be found once the incident began.
 
flyguy89
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:50 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

It's still very unclear as to how. Obnoxious is defined as 'extremely unpleasant'. By Phillips's telling he was trying to inject some spiritual meaning and healing to a situation he walked into where the CCHS and BHIs were going at it. Oh yes, that sounds incredibly unpleasant :boggled:

A grown adult approaching and inserting himself in the middle of a group of underage school kids without saying anything while loudly chanting and banging drums at them is not really normal behavior. It’s certainly bizarre.


If you know anything about NA culture, ethics, or spiritual values, it is not bizarre ‘behavior’ at all. I’m sure they find our land management and rampant food waste to be not at all normal behavior too, no?

The vast majority of people are not intimately familiar with the nuances of culture, ethics, and religiosity of the hundreds of distinct NA tribes in the US.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:54 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
A grown adult approaching and inserting himself in the middle of a group of underage school kids without saying anything while loudly chanting and banging drums at them is not really normal behavior. It’s certainly bizarre.


If you know anything about NA culture, ethics, or spiritual values, it is not bizarre ‘behavior’ at all. I’m sure they find our land management and rampant food waste to be not at all normal behavior too, no?

The vast majority of people are not intimately familiar with the nuances of culture, ethics, and religiosity of the hundreds of distinct NA tribes in the US.


Sorry, my parents taught me ignorance is not an excuse for disrespect. And my favorite teachers taught me every new encounter with a different culture is a learning opportunity to engage with an open mind.
 
flyguy89
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:06 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

If you know anything about NA culture, ethics, or spiritual values, it is not bizarre ‘behavior’ at all. I’m sure they find our land management and rampant food waste to be not at all normal behavior too, no?

The vast majority of people are not intimately familiar with the nuances of culture, ethics, and religiosity of the hundreds of distinct NA tribes in the US.


Sorry, my parents taught me ignorance is not an excuse for disrespect. And my favorite teachers taught me every new encounter with a different culture is a learning opportunity to engage with an open mind.

The ignorance and disrespect runs both ways. When I go to another country or place myself among a different culture I don’t presume it to be incumbent upon them to assume or know things about my actions or react a certain way. Absent saying anything or making any verbal suggestions as to his intentions Phillips would have or should have known as a stranger his actions would have been perceived as bizarre/obnoxious/confrontational…Phillips was the instigator. Again, if the most you can extrapolate is that some teens were being rude or disrespectful…bravo, yes teens can be rude and disrespectful.
Last edited by flyguy89 on Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:16 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
The vast majority of people are not intimately familiar with the nuances of culture, ethics, and religiosity of the hundreds of distinct NA tribes in the US.


Sorry, my parents taught me ignorance is not an excuse for disrespect. And my favorite teachers taught me every new encounter with a different culture is a learning opportunity to engage with an open mind.

The ignorance and disrespect runs both ways. Absent saying anything or making any verbal suggestions as to his intentions Phillips would have or should have known as a stranger his actions would have been perceived as bizarre/obnoxious/confrontational…Phillips was the instigator. Again, if the most you can extrapolate is that some teens were being rude or disrespectful…bravo, yes teens can be rude and disrespectful.


Negative, the factual accounts clearly establish the CCHS kids and HBI shouters egging each other on were the instigators, *not* Phillips.

Some comments in this thread reek of otherization and common mischaracterizations of NA individuals. One would hope teenagers are being taught their cultural survival is in peril and fleeting chances to meet them are opportunities for dialogue and gaining off-page understanding of their ways and mindset. Evidently that was not the case at CCHS.
 
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seb146
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:22 pm

I think more what we need to focus on is the response by WaPo. The printed explanation which includes "we will be better in our journalism and reporting." I think we need to have a discussion on which outlets are going this route and which outlets are sticking to their senationalistic routes.

https://deadline.com/2019/03/washington ... 202568450/

I think it is refreshing that a news outlet that has tried to have some integrity actually tries to keep that integrity after a momentary lapse.
 
flyguy89
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:38 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Sorry, my parents taught me ignorance is not an excuse for disrespect. And my favorite teachers taught me every new encounter with a different culture is a learning opportunity to engage with an open mind.

The ignorance and disrespect runs both ways. Absent saying anything or making any verbal suggestions as to his intentions Phillips would have or should have known as a stranger his actions would have been perceived as bizarre/obnoxious/confrontational…Phillips was the instigator. Again, if the most you can extrapolate is that some teens were being rude or disrespectful…bravo, yes teens can be rude and disrespectful.


Negative, the factual accounts clearly establish the CCHS kids and HBI shouters egging each other on were the instigators, *not* Phillips.

Between Phillips and the kids. Phillips approached them.

By his own confessed misunderstanding of what was going on, he thought the kids were harassing some black protesters, that the kids were the aggressors, that he needed to protect the Black Hebrew Israelite crazies when in fact according to the factual accounts, it was the other way around. And none of the numerous videos that cropped up capturing the situation ever corroborated the notion that the kids shouted any racial epithets. Most you can say is the kids were being disrespectful in chanting.

https://youtu.be/CY9xOPTpk4o
 
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Aaron747
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:46 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
The ignorance and disrespect runs both ways. Absent saying anything or making any verbal suggestions as to his intentions Phillips would have or should have known as a stranger his actions would have been perceived as bizarre/obnoxious/confrontational…Phillips was the instigator. Again, if the most you can extrapolate is that some teens were being rude or disrespectful…bravo, yes teens can be rude and disrespectful.


Negative, the factual accounts clearly establish the CCHS kids and HBI shouters egging each other on were the instigators, *not* Phillips.

Between Phillips and the kids. Phillips approached them.

By his own confessed misunderstanding of what was going on, he thought the kids were harassing some black protesters, that the kids were the aggressors, that he needed to protect the Black Hebrew Israelite crazies when in fact according to the factual accounts, it was the other way around. And none of the numerous videos that cropped up capturing the situation ever corroborated the notion that the kids shouted any racial epithets. Most you can say is the kids were being disrespectful in chanting.

https://youtu.be/CY9xOPTpk4o


Well no, by his own account there was harassment back and forth between HBI and CCHS, stemming from an incident earlier in the day.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -covington
 
flyguy89
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:52 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Sorry, my parents taught me ignorance is not an excuse for disrespect. And my favorite teachers taught me every new encounter with a different culture is a learning opportunity to engage with an open mind.

The ignorance and disrespect runs both ways. Absent saying anything or making any verbal suggestions as to his intentions Phillips would have or should have known as a stranger his actions would have been perceived as bizarre/obnoxious/confrontational…Phillips was the instigator. Again, if the most you can extrapolate is that some teens were being rude or disrespectful…bravo, yes teens can be rude and disrespectful.

Some comments in this thread reek of otherization and common mischaracterizations of NA individuals. One would hope teenagers are being taught their cultural survival is in peril and fleeting chances to meet them are opportunities for dialogue and gaining off-page understanding of their ways and mindset. Evidently that was not the case at CCHS.

I mean, sure, I’m not going to disagree that we as Americans can and should do a better job instructing and diving deeper into the histories of the indigenous cultures, but that’s a different subject and not the fault of the kids that you think they should know and be more curious about native Americans. That also presupposes that Phillips would be similarly interested in a dialogue and instructive learning, his actions in that moment however suggest otherwise.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:01 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
The ignorance and disrespect runs both ways. Absent saying anything or making any verbal suggestions as to his intentions Phillips would have or should have known as a stranger his actions would have been perceived as bizarre/obnoxious/confrontational…Phillips was the instigator. Again, if the most you can extrapolate is that some teens were being rude or disrespectful…bravo, yes teens can be rude and disrespectful.

Some comments in this thread reek of otherization and common mischaracterizations of NA individuals. One would hope teenagers are being taught their cultural survival is in peril and fleeting chances to meet them are opportunities for dialogue and gaining off-page understanding of their ways and mindset. Evidently that was not the case at CCHS.

I mean, sure, I’m not going to disagree that we as Americans can and should do a better job instructing and diving deeper into the histories of the indigenous cultures, but that’s a different subject and not the fault of the kids that you think they should know and be more curious about native Americans. That also presupposes that Phillips would be similarly interested in a dialogue and instructive learning, his actions in that moment however suggest otherwise.


Not if you read his comments in the piece I posted above.
 
flyguy89
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:05 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Negative, the factual accounts clearly establish the CCHS kids and HBI shouters egging each other on were the instigators, *not* Phillips.

Between Phillips and the kids. Phillips approached them.

By his own confessed misunderstanding of what was going on, he thought the kids were harassing some black protesters, that the kids were the aggressors, that he needed to protect the Black Hebrew Israelite crazies when in fact according to the factual accounts, it was the other way around. And none of the numerous videos that cropped up capturing the situation ever corroborated the notion that the kids shouted any racial epithets. Most you can say is the kids were being disrespectful in chanting.

https://youtu.be/CY9xOPTpk4o


Well no, by his own account there was harassment back and forth between HBI and CCHS, stemming from an incident earlier in the day.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -covington

I’m sorry but where at all in the piece does it mention an earlier related incident beyond the confrontation with the BHIs captured on video? He has claimed there was racial harassment back and forth, but again none of the video evidence corroborates that.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:14 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Between Phillips and the kids. Phillips approached them.

By his own confessed misunderstanding of what was going on, he thought the kids were harassing some black protesters, that the kids were the aggressors, that he needed to protect the Black Hebrew Israelite crazies when in fact according to the factual accounts, it was the other way around. And none of the numerous videos that cropped up capturing the situation ever corroborated the notion that the kids shouted any racial epithets. Most you can say is the kids were being disrespectful in chanting.

https://youtu.be/CY9xOPTpk4o


Well no, by his own account there was harassment back and forth between HBI and CCHS, stemming from an incident earlier in the day.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -covington

I’m sorry but where at all in the piece does it mention an earlier related incident beyond the confrontation with the BHIs captured on video? He has claimed there was racial harassment back and forth, but again none of the video evidence corroborates that.


Strike that - sorry, one paragraph did a particularly bad job of setting time and place and I misread.

In any case, here was his comment I highlighted showing his actions were not to annoy or discourage dialogue:

... I was in prayer and the prayer was about what was happening to our country – to protect us, to look down on us. God, what is happening here between these two groups?”

“They are tearing the fabric of America apart right in front of me. That’s how I was praying, that’s how I was feeling. I’m not trying to be poetic or anything but, it was just – just what was happening in my country, right here on the National Mall: hatred, division. There’s so many words that I wish that I had.”


Out of everyone involved in that silly scene, he had the biggest heart.
 
NIKV69
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Re: New Documentary about the Nicholas Sandmann Confrontation in DC

Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:32 pm

Aaron747 wrote:

I went to school with braggarts who paraded their 16th-birthday present BMW around the school parking lot. Guess you didn’t. I assure you, everyone hated them.


So that isn't exclusive to white kids, all races of kids do that. Not to mention who cares? Some people have rich parents who spoil them some don't. Some rich parents don't spoil their kids etc. It all has nothing to do with how these news outlets behave and smear with no evidence.

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