Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
NIKV69 wrote:Interesting the "speed over accuracy" angle in the article. It rears it's ugly head a lot like the Olympic park bombing and Duke Lacrosse case. There is also the other motive when it comes to "white privilege" I am glad CNN and the WaPo had to pay Sandmann.
NIKV69 wrote:Interesting the "speed over accuracy" angle in the article. It rears it's ugly head a lot like the Olympic park bombing and Duke Lacrosse case. There is also the other motive when it comes to "white privilege" I am glad CNN and the WaPo had to pay Sandmann.
MaverickM11 wrote:They paid him a charitable pittance to go away. He had no case.
FGITD wrote:MaverickM11 wrote:They paid him a charitable pittance to go away. He had no case.
Not that I think there’s some greater scheme at play, and the networks deserved it…I did find it quite odd just how quickly everything played out in regards to the lawsuits.
And also the fact the kid ended up with a job on McConells re-election campaign. Granted it was probably some nonsense job for the publicity but the whole thing was a little suspect
Aaron747 wrote:FGITD wrote:MaverickM11 wrote:They paid him a charitable pittance to go away. He had no case.
Not that I think there’s some greater scheme at play, and the networks deserved it…I did find it quite odd just how quickly everything played out in regards to the lawsuits.
And also the fact the kid ended up with a job on McConells re-election campaign. Granted it was probably some nonsense job for the publicity but the whole thing was a little suspect
His parents definitely know how to work it. Also Mr. Phillips indicated in interviews after that he felt Sandmann's actions and performance were 'coached' afterward and that's why he forgave him.
https://www.today.com/news/nathan-phill ... al-t147369
MaverickM11 wrote:NIKV69 wrote:Interesting the "speed over accuracy" angle in the article. It rears it's ugly head a lot like the Olympic park bombing and Duke Lacrosse case. There is also the other motive when it comes to "white privilege" I am glad CNN and the WaPo had to pay Sandmann.
They paid him a charitable pittance to go away. He had no case.
NIKV69 wrote:MaverickM11 wrote:NIKV69 wrote:Interesting the "speed over accuracy" angle in the article. It rears it's ugly head a lot like the Olympic park bombing and Duke Lacrosse case. There is also the other motive when it comes to "white privilege" I am glad CNN and the WaPo had to pay Sandmann.
They paid him a charitable pittance to go away. He had no case.
Any source on this? Or just sour grapes that CNN and WaPo got caught in one of their smear campaigns on a poor kid.
seb146 wrote:
The judge in the case ruled that Sandmann's basis for the suits were "not supported by the plain language in the article, which states none of these things" he ruled.
seb146 wrote:https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2019/07/26/nick-sandmann-lawsuit-against-washington-post-dismissed-federal-judge-trump/1841278001/
The judge in the case ruled that Sandmann's basis for the suits were "not supported by the plain language in the article, which states none of these things" he ruled.
Aesma wrote:Has the kid done anything positive towards native americans since then, to alleviate any doubts we might have ?
NIKV69 wrote:seb146 wrote:
The judge in the case ruled that Sandmann's basis for the suits were "not supported by the plain language in the article, which states none of these things" he ruled.
We know this already but they paid to settle after.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... story.html
seb146 wrote:NIKV69 wrote:seb146 wrote:
The judge in the case ruled that Sandmann's basis for the suits were "not supported by the plain language in the article, which states none of these things" he ruled.
We know this already but they paid to settle after.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... story.html
So it was charity on the part of WaPo. They gave money when they didn't have to. They went above and beyond. When you are told how hated and how you constantly lie, even though none of that is true, you have to work even harder. Spin it how you will, but WaPo didn't have to pay him anything. He lost.
NIKV69 wrote:seb146 wrote:
The judge in the case ruled that Sandmann's basis for the suits were "not supported by the plain language in the article, which states none of these things" he ruled.
We know this already but they paid to settle after.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyl ... story.html
Aesma wrote:Has the kid done anything positive towards native americans since then, to alleviate any doubts we might have ?
alfa164 wrote:Aesma wrote:Has the kid done anything positive towards native americans since then, to alleviate any doubts we might have ?
Well... of course not.
Doesn't Sandmann remind you of the smug little rich mama's boy we all hated in high school?
Aaron747 wrote:A standard legal maneuver to ward off future nuisance suit filings. Paid to go away, not because there was any merit. Companies do this more often than you think - they want attorneys spending their expensive time on cases that matter.
afcjets wrote:Aaron747 wrote:A standard legal maneuver to ward off future nuisance suit filings. Paid to go away, not because there was any merit. Companies do this more often than you think - they want attorneys spending their expensive time on cases that matter.
Oh yes, the best way to deter future frivolous lawsuits is to settle lawsuits that have no merit.
This is the most high profile lawsuit in CNN's history, or at least tied with Richard Jewel. This case sorta mattered, trust me.
afcjets wrote:Aesma wrote:Has the kid done anything positive towards native americans since then, to alleviate any doubts we might have ?
You think the burden of proof is on this kid to prove to you he's not racist towards Native Americans? Some obnoxious grown man makes a bee line for him while banging drums and gets right up in his face. I agree though after getting an eight figure settlement (which might end up becoming nine figures), I would at least send the guy a thank you note and buy him a house or some other small gesture.
alfa164 wrote:
Doesn't Sandmann remind you of the smug little rich mama's boy we all hated in high school?
NIKV69 wrote:alfa164 wrote:
Doesn't Sandmann remind you of the smug little rich mama's boy we all hated in high school?
No he was just a kid that the media wanted to use the "white privilege" propaganda term to destroy him. It backfired on them with Duke Lacrosse and it backfired here yet they still run with stories that are complete crap.
Aaron747 wrote:NIKV69 wrote:alfa164 wrote:
Doesn't Sandmann remind you of the smug little rich mama's boy we all hated in high school?
No he was just a kid that the media wanted to use the "white privilege" propaganda term to destroy him. It backfired on them with Duke Lacrosse and it backfired here yet they still run with stories that are complete crap.
I went to school with braggarts who paraded their 16th-birthday present BMW around the school parking lot. Guess you didn’t. I assure you, everyone hated them.
flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:NIKV69 wrote:
No he was just a kid that the media wanted to use the "white privilege" propaganda term to destroy him. It backfired on them with Duke Lacrosse and it backfired here yet they still run with stories that are complete crap.
I went to school with braggarts who paraded their 16th-birthday present BMW around the school parking lot. Guess you didn’t. I assure you, everyone hated them.
The point is, you don’t know the kid to be able to make those kinds of assertions about him. "He looks smug" or "looks like a rich mama’s boy" or "he’s the kind of jerk I hated in school," all completely baseless accusations. This "notoriety" was quite literally thrust upon him, and for what exactly? He did absolutely nothing in that situation to warrant the vitriol unleashed on him.
afcjets wrote:alfa164 wrote:Aesma wrote:Has the kid done anything positive towards native americans since then, to alleviate any doubts we might have ?
Well... of course not.
Doesn't Sandmann remind you of the smug little rich mama's boy we all hated in high school?
He's rich now that's for sure, but thanks for personifying social justice and showing why facts don't matter anymore to too many Americans.
flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:NIKV69 wrote:
No he was just a kid that the media wanted to use the "white privilege" propaganda term to destroy him. It backfired on them with Duke Lacrosse and it backfired here yet they still run with stories that are complete crap.
I went to school with braggarts who paraded their 16th-birthday present BMW around the school parking lot. Guess you didn’t. I assure you, everyone hated them.
The point is, you don’t know the kid to be able to make those kinds of assertions about him. "He looks smug" or "looks like a rich mama’s boy" or "he’s the kind of jerk I hated in school," all completely baseless accusations. This "notoriety" was quite literally thrust upon him, and for what exactly? He did absolutely nothing in that situation to warrant the vitriol unleashed on him.
Aaron747 wrote:flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:
I went to school with braggarts who paraded their 16th-birthday present BMW around the school parking lot. Guess you didn’t. I assure you, everyone hated them.
The point is, you don’t know the kid to be able to make those kinds of assertions about him. "He looks smug" or "looks like a rich mama’s boy" or "he’s the kind of jerk I hated in school," all completely baseless accusations. This "notoriety" was quite literally thrust upon him, and for what exactly? He did absolutely nothing in that situation to warrant the vitriol unleashed on him.
You are partially correct but we can extrapolate about his peer group and environment from the behavior on display that day:
https://twitter.com/rachbarnhart/status ... 91328?s=21
As many commented at the time, where were the adult chaperones? No Catholic school attendees I know would have been allowed to carry on and disrespect another culture so gleefully. Openly mocking native chants is not pious or respectful behavior.
flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:flyguy89 wrote:The point is, you don’t know the kid to be able to make those kinds of assertions about him. "He looks smug" or "looks like a rich mama’s boy" or "he’s the kind of jerk I hated in school," all completely baseless accusations. This "notoriety" was quite literally thrust upon him, and for what exactly? He did absolutely nothing in that situation to warrant the vitriol unleashed on him.
You are partially correct but we can extrapolate about his peer group and environment from the behavior on display that day:
https://twitter.com/rachbarnhart/status ... 91328?s=21
As many commented at the time, where were the adult chaperones? No Catholic school attendees I know would have been allowed to carry on and disrespect another culture so gleefully. Openly mocking native chants is not pious or respectful behavior.
I don’t exactly know what you expect a group of high school students to do in a situation where a stranger walks over in the middle of them chanting and beating a drum with no announced intentions. Were these adults I would be inclined to share your opinion, but alas teenage boys goofing off *the HORROR*. All I can say is that I’m certainly glad not to have grown up in an age where every buffoon thing I did as an immature teen didn’t blow up into this kind of tedious overreaching analysis. If that’s the most you can extrapolate…then throw every teen in the trash.
Aaron747 wrote:Instead of 'tedious overreaching analysis', it's probably more accurate to say that public high schools in a place like Silicon Valley impart better standards for behavior than private schools in suburban KY.
flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:Instead of 'tedious overreaching analysis', it's probably more accurate to say that public high schools in a place like Silicon Valley impart better standards for behavior than private schools in suburban KY.
I mean, sure…schools in the wealthiest zip codes of the country? Sure, higher standards, but that’s not where most people live.
Where I do agree with you however was the chaperone situation. Have no idea why they were absent. I actually grew up pretty much just down the street from CCHS…didn’t attend, but knew plenty who did, they were our HS football rivals. I do know a LOT of the parents were furious about the chaperones not being around to tone down the situation and keep their kids out of the thick of that craziness with the Black Hebrew Israelites and Phillips.
Aaron747 wrote:flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:Instead of 'tedious overreaching analysis', it's probably more accurate to say that public high schools in a place like Silicon Valley impart better standards for behavior than private schools in suburban KY.
I mean, sure…schools in the wealthiest zip codes of the country? Sure, higher standards, but that’s not where most people live.
Where I do agree with you however was the chaperone situation. Have no idea why they were absent. I actually grew up pretty much just down the street from CCHS…didn’t attend, but knew plenty who did, they were our HS football rivals. I do know a LOT of the parents were furious about the chaperones not being around to tone down the situation and keep their kids out of the thick of that craziness with the Black Hebrew Israelites and Phillips.
At the time I graduated (late 90s), the median household income in my town was $94K. Upper middle class, sure, but not one of the wealthiest zip codes of the country, much less the Bay Area. Just a few towns over there was a town where the median household income was $193K.
Aaron747 wrote:afcjets wrote:Aesma wrote:Has the kid done anything positive towards native americans since then, to alleviate any doubts we might have ?
You think the burden of proof is on this kid to prove to you he's not racist towards Native Americans? Some obnoxious grown man makes a bee line for him while banging drums and gets right up in his face. I agree though after getting an eight figure settlement (which might end up becoming nine figures), I would at least send the guy a thank you note and buy him a house or some other small gesture.
Curious why you characterize Mr. Phillips as ‘obnoxious grown man’? He stood up for his community’s future with Standing Rock, he organizes events for Indian veterans, and works to make his community’s social problems better mitigated and understood. That sounds like a bulwark of a man, hardly obnoxious.
afcjets wrote:Aaron747 wrote:afcjets wrote:
You think the burden of proof is on this kid to prove to you he's not racist towards Native Americans? Some obnoxious grown man makes a bee line for him while banging drums and gets right up in his face. I agree though after getting an eight figure settlement (which might end up becoming nine figures), I would at least send the guy a thank you note and buy him a house or some other small gesture.
Curious why you characterize Mr. Phillips as ‘obnoxious grown man’? He stood up for his community’s future with Standing Rock, he organizes events for Indian veterans, and works to make his community’s social problems better mitigated and understood. That sounds like a bulwark of a man, hardly obnoxious.
Because what he did was obnoxious. Even had it been to another adult instead of a minor.
Aaron747 wrote:
It's still very unclear as to how. Obnoxious is defined as 'extremely unpleasant'. By Phillips's telling he was trying to inject some spiritual meaning and healing to a situation he walked into where the CCHS and BHIs were going at it. Oh yes, that sounds incredibly unpleasant
afcjets wrote:Aaron747 wrote:
It's still very unclear as to how. Obnoxious is defined as 'extremely unpleasant'. By Phillips's telling he was trying to inject some spiritual meaning and healing to a situation he walked into where the CCHS and BHIs were going at it. Oh yes, that sounds incredibly unpleasant
I am guessing if Paula Jones walked up to many of you in a similiar situation speaking in tongues and shaking tambourines and got right in your face and held a cross over your head you would find that obnoxious.
afcjets wrote:Aaron747 wrote:
It's still very unclear as to how. Obnoxious is defined as 'extremely unpleasant'. By Phillips's telling he was trying to inject some spiritual meaning and healing to a situation he walked into where the CCHS and BHIs were going at it. Oh yes, that sounds incredibly unpleasant
I am guessing if Paula Jones walked up to many of you in a similiar situation speaking in tongues and shaking tambourines and got right in your face and held a cross over your head you would find that obnoxious.
Aaron747 wrote:afcjets wrote:Aaron747 wrote:
Curious why you characterize Mr. Phillips as ‘obnoxious grown man’? He stood up for his community’s future with Standing Rock, he organizes events for Indian veterans, and works to make his community’s social problems better mitigated and understood. That sounds like a bulwark of a man, hardly obnoxious.
Because what he did was obnoxious. Even had it been to another adult instead of a minor.
It's still very unclear as to how. Obnoxious is defined as 'extremely unpleasant'. By Phillips's telling he was trying to inject some spiritual meaning and healing to a situation he walked into where the CCHS and BHIs were going at it. Oh yes, that sounds incredibly unpleasant
flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:afcjets wrote:
Because what he did was obnoxious. Even had it been to another adult instead of a minor.
It's still very unclear as to how. Obnoxious is defined as 'extremely unpleasant'. By Phillips's telling he was trying to inject some spiritual meaning and healing to a situation he walked into where the CCHS and BHIs were going at it. Oh yes, that sounds incredibly unpleasant
A grown adult approaching and inserting himself in the middle of a group of underage school kids without saying anything while loudly chanting and banging drums at them is not really normal behavior. It’s certainly bizarre.
Aaron747 wrote:Because there’s no difference between a woman speaking in tongues for no reason and a Native American peace activist...riiiight. Try again?
Aaron747 wrote:flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:
It's still very unclear as to how. Obnoxious is defined as 'extremely unpleasant'. By Phillips's telling he was trying to inject some spiritual meaning and healing to a situation he walked into where the CCHS and BHIs were going at it. Oh yes, that sounds incredibly unpleasant
A grown adult approaching and inserting himself in the middle of a group of underage school kids without saying anything while loudly chanting and banging drums at them is not really normal behavior. It’s certainly bizarre.
If you know anything about NA culture, ethics, or spiritual values, it is not bizarre ‘behavior’ at all. I’m sure they find our land management and rampant food waste to be not at all normal behavior too, no?
flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:flyguy89 wrote:A grown adult approaching and inserting himself in the middle of a group of underage school kids without saying anything while loudly chanting and banging drums at them is not really normal behavior. It’s certainly bizarre.
If you know anything about NA culture, ethics, or spiritual values, it is not bizarre ‘behavior’ at all. I’m sure they find our land management and rampant food waste to be not at all normal behavior too, no?
The vast majority of people are not intimately familiar with the nuances of culture, ethics, and religiosity of the hundreds of distinct NA tribes in the US.
Aaron747 wrote:flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:
If you know anything about NA culture, ethics, or spiritual values, it is not bizarre ‘behavior’ at all. I’m sure they find our land management and rampant food waste to be not at all normal behavior too, no?
The vast majority of people are not intimately familiar with the nuances of culture, ethics, and religiosity of the hundreds of distinct NA tribes in the US.
Sorry, my parents taught me ignorance is not an excuse for disrespect. And my favorite teachers taught me every new encounter with a different culture is a learning opportunity to engage with an open mind.
flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:flyguy89 wrote:The vast majority of people are not intimately familiar with the nuances of culture, ethics, and religiosity of the hundreds of distinct NA tribes in the US.
Sorry, my parents taught me ignorance is not an excuse for disrespect. And my favorite teachers taught me every new encounter with a different culture is a learning opportunity to engage with an open mind.
The ignorance and disrespect runs both ways. Absent saying anything or making any verbal suggestions as to his intentions Phillips would have or should have known as a stranger his actions would have been perceived as bizarre/obnoxious/confrontational…Phillips was the instigator. Again, if the most you can extrapolate is that some teens were being rude or disrespectful…bravo, yes teens can be rude and disrespectful.
Aaron747 wrote:flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:
Sorry, my parents taught me ignorance is not an excuse for disrespect. And my favorite teachers taught me every new encounter with a different culture is a learning opportunity to engage with an open mind.
The ignorance and disrespect runs both ways. Absent saying anything or making any verbal suggestions as to his intentions Phillips would have or should have known as a stranger his actions would have been perceived as bizarre/obnoxious/confrontational…Phillips was the instigator. Again, if the most you can extrapolate is that some teens were being rude or disrespectful…bravo, yes teens can be rude and disrespectful.
Negative, the factual accounts clearly establish the CCHS kids and HBI shouters egging each other on were the instigators, *not* Phillips.
flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:flyguy89 wrote:The ignorance and disrespect runs both ways. Absent saying anything or making any verbal suggestions as to his intentions Phillips would have or should have known as a stranger his actions would have been perceived as bizarre/obnoxious/confrontational…Phillips was the instigator. Again, if the most you can extrapolate is that some teens were being rude or disrespectful…bravo, yes teens can be rude and disrespectful.
Negative, the factual accounts clearly establish the CCHS kids and HBI shouters egging each other on were the instigators, *not* Phillips.
Between Phillips and the kids. Phillips approached them.
By his own confessed misunderstanding of what was going on, he thought the kids were harassing some black protesters, that the kids were the aggressors, that he needed to protect the Black Hebrew Israelite crazies when in fact according to the factual accounts, it was the other way around. And none of the numerous videos that cropped up capturing the situation ever corroborated the notion that the kids shouted any racial epithets. Most you can say is the kids were being disrespectful in chanting.
https://youtu.be/CY9xOPTpk4o
Aaron747 wrote:flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:
Sorry, my parents taught me ignorance is not an excuse for disrespect. And my favorite teachers taught me every new encounter with a different culture is a learning opportunity to engage with an open mind.
The ignorance and disrespect runs both ways. Absent saying anything or making any verbal suggestions as to his intentions Phillips would have or should have known as a stranger his actions would have been perceived as bizarre/obnoxious/confrontational…Phillips was the instigator. Again, if the most you can extrapolate is that some teens were being rude or disrespectful…bravo, yes teens can be rude and disrespectful.
Some comments in this thread reek of otherization and common mischaracterizations of NA individuals. One would hope teenagers are being taught their cultural survival is in peril and fleeting chances to meet them are opportunities for dialogue and gaining off-page understanding of their ways and mindset. Evidently that was not the case at CCHS.
flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:flyguy89 wrote:The ignorance and disrespect runs both ways. Absent saying anything or making any verbal suggestions as to his intentions Phillips would have or should have known as a stranger his actions would have been perceived as bizarre/obnoxious/confrontational…Phillips was the instigator. Again, if the most you can extrapolate is that some teens were being rude or disrespectful…bravo, yes teens can be rude and disrespectful.
Some comments in this thread reek of otherization and common mischaracterizations of NA individuals. One would hope teenagers are being taught their cultural survival is in peril and fleeting chances to meet them are opportunities for dialogue and gaining off-page understanding of their ways and mindset. Evidently that was not the case at CCHS.
I mean, sure, I’m not going to disagree that we as Americans can and should do a better job instructing and diving deeper into the histories of the indigenous cultures, but that’s a different subject and not the fault of the kids that you think they should know and be more curious about native Americans. That also presupposes that Phillips would be similarly interested in a dialogue and instructive learning, his actions in that moment however suggest otherwise.
Aaron747 wrote:flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:
Negative, the factual accounts clearly establish the CCHS kids and HBI shouters egging each other on were the instigators, *not* Phillips.
Between Phillips and the kids. Phillips approached them.
By his own confessed misunderstanding of what was going on, he thought the kids were harassing some black protesters, that the kids were the aggressors, that he needed to protect the Black Hebrew Israelite crazies when in fact according to the factual accounts, it was the other way around. And none of the numerous videos that cropped up capturing the situation ever corroborated the notion that the kids shouted any racial epithets. Most you can say is the kids were being disrespectful in chanting.
https://youtu.be/CY9xOPTpk4o
Well no, by his own account there was harassment back and forth between HBI and CCHS, stemming from an incident earlier in the day.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -covington
flyguy89 wrote:Aaron747 wrote:flyguy89 wrote:Between Phillips and the kids. Phillips approached them.
By his own confessed misunderstanding of what was going on, he thought the kids were harassing some black protesters, that the kids were the aggressors, that he needed to protect the Black Hebrew Israelite crazies when in fact according to the factual accounts, it was the other way around. And none of the numerous videos that cropped up capturing the situation ever corroborated the notion that the kids shouted any racial epithets. Most you can say is the kids were being disrespectful in chanting.
https://youtu.be/CY9xOPTpk4o
Well no, by his own account there was harassment back and forth between HBI and CCHS, stemming from an incident earlier in the day.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -covington
I’m sorry but where at all in the piece does it mention an earlier related incident beyond the confrontation with the BHIs captured on video? He has claimed there was racial harassment back and forth, but again none of the video evidence corroborates that.
Aaron747 wrote:
I went to school with braggarts who paraded their 16th-birthday present BMW around the school parking lot. Guess you didn’t. I assure you, everyone hated them.