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DIRECTFLT
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Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:28 am

According to highly reliable sources in the Vatican, Jorge Mario Bergoglio has expressed his decision to resign in December of 2021. The news broke this morning in Rome, on the front page of the Libero Newspaper, in an article written by Antonio Socci. The source cited is il Sismografo, the highly influential and authoritative blog which is published by anonymous members of the Secretary of State Department at the Vatican. While there is much speculation contain in the three page article at the Libero, the substance of the news is simply and only that: a voluntary resignation for reasons of health on his 85th birthday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMMDT-_99Yo
 
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seb146
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:07 pm

IF this happens, that would make two popes emeritus? The Vatican is large but does the church have plans for something like this?
 
marcelh
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:25 pm

Who cares?
Watch the news of Afghanistan and see the world is better of without worshiping and interpretation of some ancient books….
 
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casinterest
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Tue Aug 24, 2021 4:26 pm

I would have to assume something health related is occurring if this is the case.

That or Francis is sick of the conservative branch of the Church whining about everything.
 
AirbusCheerlead
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Tue Aug 24, 2021 5:57 pm

Being an atheist, I must confess that I don't follow the Roman catholic church much. But it seems to me pope Francis had some rather liberal views on faith, that on many points were in line with my own views on humanity.

Best regards and stay safe,
Jonas
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:37 pm

marcelh wrote:
Who cares?
Watch the news of Afghanistan and see the world is better of without worshiping and interpretation of some ancient books….


Amen to that!
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:01 pm

AirbusCheerlead wrote:
Being an atheist, I must confess that I don't follow the Roman catholic church much. But it seems to me pope Francis had some rather liberal views on faith, that on many points were in line with my own views on humanity.

Best regards and stay safe,
Jonas

Agreed, though I always liked how the philosophy of Papal Infallibility was modified anytime he spoke and said things that Catholics normally view as abhorrent.

Pope Francis said to love everyone, even the gays; the Vatican would release a statement insisting that homosexuality is a sin.

Pope Francis said that non-believers can go to heaven; the Vatican releases a statement insisting that salvation can only come by accepting Christ.
 
marcelh
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:04 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Who cares?
Watch the news of Afghanistan and see the world is better of without worshiping and interpretation of some ancient books….


Amen to that!

I see what you did there…… :checkmark:
 
Derico
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:12 pm

To be honest, the most dangerous part of Christendom currently, and it has been for 10 to 15 years now... is NOT Catholicism.

It's the fundamentalist, unsupervised, cult-like churches popping from the Protestant wing of the religion. They are the ones fomenting the most superstition, the most sectarianism, the most conspiratorial ideologies, and the most extremism and outright racial and cultural intolerance. They are the ones consistently fleecing their "members" while the cult leader builds palaces and jets for himself. These churches were the ones almost single-handedly responsible for kick-starting COVID 19 in dozens of countries because unlike Catholic churches, Anglican churches, Orthodox churches, or Mosques, Temples, or Buddhists or Hindus, they time and again defied the rules and earnest requests of authorities and held crowded meetings which lead to nationwide outbreaks and lockdowns from Korea to Brazil, United States to Tanzania.

Yeah, we know of the old shags running the Vatican and all its affiliates. But I can't say they are the biggest problem right now. Unhinged Protestantism is.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:49 pm

Major news sources in the US seem not to have picked up on this story. There are a lot of leaks out of the Vatican (and about every establishment) try to start or influence something.
 
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WesternDC6B
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:03 pm

marcelh wrote:
Who cares?
Watch the news of Afghanistan and see the world is better of without worshiping and interpretation of some ancient books….


^^^ This ^^^
 
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Aesma
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:53 pm

Even if he intended to resign, I'm not sure why he would say so to anyone. Popes have been replaced after their death for millenia, death that usually comes relatively suddenly. If one day he announces he resigns out of the blue, it won't cause any issue. And at least it gives less time to the worst bigots to foment the election of one of them next.

seb146 wrote:
IF this happens, that would make two popes emeritus? The Vatican is large but does the church have plans for something like this?


Francis lives in a small suite in an ugly modern building, not the Papal apartments. He won't even need to move.

marcelh wrote:
Who cares?
Watch the news of Afghanistan and see the world is better of without worshiping and interpretation of some ancient books….


The worst Catholic dominated country is quite far away from that shithole, though (and yeah, that has to be Venezuela, which isn't great at the moment).
 
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seb146
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:34 am

marcelh wrote:
Who cares?
Watch the news of Afghanistan and see the world is better of without worshiping and interpretation of some ancient books….


As a Protestant, I was raised to believe religion is very personal. We are all called as we find our way through life. The forcing of religion on others is wrong and horrific. THAT is the issue. Pope Frank is not the leader of my sect and has never been. He is the leader of a large number of religious people. Many of his edicts are progressive. And, at the same time, religion is deeply personal. But that is just me.

You want to be athiest? Good. Go for it. I do not agree with it but go on. You want to be Satanist? Good. Go for it. I do not agree but go on. You want to be Shia? Good. Go for it. I do not agree but go on. It is surprising how many people in the world think this way.
 
marcelh
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:06 am

seb146 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Who cares?
Watch the news of Afghanistan and see the world is better of without worshiping and interpretation of some ancient books….


As a Protestant, I was raised to believe religion is very personal. We are all called as we find our way through life. The forcing of religion on others is wrong and horrific. THAT is the issue. Pope Frank is not the leader of my sect and has never been. He is the leader of a large number of religious people. Many of his edicts are progressive. And, at the same time, religion is deeply personal. But that is just me.


Being born and raised in a Protestant culture I can assure you there are a lot of Protestants trying to forcing their religion and way how to live to others.
It won’t be enforced by an AK47, but exclusion is also very effective……
Watch history in the so called “progressive” leftist and liberal countries in the western world.

You want to be athiest? Good. Go for it. I do not agree with it but go on. You want to be Satanist? Good. Go for it. I do not agree but go on. You want to be Shia? Good. Go for it. I do not agree but go on. It is surprising how many people in the world think this way.


I’m not surprised. People tend to shut their eyes for the misbehavior of other religions, because it opens a can of worms about their own religion.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:34 am

marcelh wrote:
seb146 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Who cares?
Watch the news of Afghanistan and see the world is better of without worshiping and interpretation of some ancient books….


As a Protestant, I was raised to believe religion is very personal. We are all called as we find our way through life. The forcing of religion on others is wrong and horrific. THAT is the issue. Pope Frank is not the leader of my sect and has never been. He is the leader of a large number of religious people. Many of his edicts are progressive. And, at the same time, religion is deeply personal. But that is just me.



It won’t be enforced by an AK47, but exclusion is also very effective…….


Once you get to make the laws you don´t really need AKs anymore, you have regular law enforcement and courts for it. Bigamy/Polygamy can land you in prison in how many countries?

If Pope Francis resigns, the next one will very well be someone more "conservative".

best regards
Thomas
 
ltbewr
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:14 pm

Pope Francis has a long history of health problems. When younger he lost part of one of his lungs from disease. He has been hospitalized recently for another ailment. Those brushes with mortality, seeing at his age physical infirmity, perhaps mental frailty, he is considering abdication in the near future for the good of the Church.

He is not liked by some in the Church for his taking common sense and truly humane stands on critical social and religious issues. He has probably not done enough with the sexual abuses of ministers of the faith, but has done far more than those of past Popes. He has traveled to places never visited by past Popes. He has openly rejected the opulence of past Popes, following the teachings of St. Francis of Assisi from where he took his Papal name, of the Order he got his education to become a priest and that of the biblical Jesus Christ. He was also the first modern Pope to not be from Europe. It will be interesting to see who his successor will be. Perhaps a return to more traditional, conservative candidate, but perhaps choosing someone from the poorer 3rd World, a Black or Asian person and hopefully keep key day to day beliefs of Pope Francis.
 
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seb146
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:17 pm

How much influence will Francis and Benedict have on a new pope issuing laws and rules and papers and such?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:32 pm

seb146 wrote:
How much influence will Francis and Benedict have on a new pope issuing laws and rules and papers and such?


Usually he stays quiet, but not about something that Francis was considering, apparently : https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51086626
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Wed Aug 25, 2021 9:13 pm

Be respectful. Most bans occur in non-Av
 
chimborazo
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:35 pm

marcelh wrote:
Who cares?
Watch the news of Afghanistan and see the world is better of without worshiping and interpretation of some ancient books….


Indeed. This Pope (while possibly quite an honourable person in many ways) has blood on his hands and is directly responsible - just as his predecessors are - for still maintaining that condoms and non-barrier birth control are against god’s wishes. As a result of this, tens of thousands of people still die each year from contracting STIs such as HIV or have children they cannot look after (or both).

Most religious organisations are malevolent (there will be argument against this but it is irrefutable to some level in every institution) but at least the idiots using “Allah’s will” to blow you up are generally honest about it, ie: we will kill you if you don’t believe/act in such a way. Whereas the Catholic Church professes love and care etc but in reality your suffering doesn’t matter (or is even a sense of gratification - see: Agnes, Mother Theresa) as long as you are doing “what (they think) god says”.

Here endeth the sermon :roll:
 
L0VE2FLY
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:01 am

marcelh wrote:
Who cares?
Watch the news of Afghanistan and see the world is better of without worshiping and interpretation of some ancient books….


Doing away with religions will not make a huge difference, greed and the love of power are the sources of much of the world's problems, unfortunately these human qualities will continue to exist with or without religions.
 
johns624
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Fri Aug 27, 2021 1:03 am

L0VE2FLY wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Who cares?
Watch the news of Afghanistan and see the world is better of without worshiping and interpretation of some ancient books….


Doing away with religions will not make a huge difference, greed and the love of power are the sources of much of the world's problems, unfortunately these human qualities will continue to exist with or without religions.
It might slow things down a bit, though. It's harder to get the great unwashed masses to die for you if you can't invoke their God.
PS Religion also offers those killed in war "72 virgins", "everlasting life" or "reincarnation", among other things. Without religion, you're just DEAD.
 
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seb146
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Fri Aug 27, 2021 4:01 am

johns624 wrote:
L0VE2FLY wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Who cares?
Watch the news of Afghanistan and see the world is better of without worshiping and interpretation of some ancient books….


Doing away with religions will not make a huge difference, greed and the love of power are the sources of much of the world's problems, unfortunately these human qualities will continue to exist with or without religions.
It might slow things down a bit, though. It's harder to get the great unwashed masses to die for you if you can't invoke their God.
PS Religion also offers those killed in war "72 virgins", "everlasting life" or "reincarnation", among other things. Without religion, you're just DEAD.


Fables and tales of the afterlife are for the living and not the dead. Although, I have heard some interesting stories about reincarnation. I am not completely closed to the idea but, like you, I do not believe religion has anything to do with it.
 
chimborazo
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Fri Aug 27, 2021 5:59 am

L0VE2FLY wrote:
marcelh wrote:
Who cares?
Watch the news of Afghanistan and see the world is better of without worshiping and interpretation of some ancient books….


Doing away with religions will not make a huge difference, greed and the love of power are the sources of much of the world's problems, unfortunately these human qualities will continue to exist with or without religions.


Wanting to be happy in life and for people to get on and life to be good for everyone and to take care of other people, to live in understanding are the sources of much of the worlds good. Fortunately these human qualities will continue to exist with or without religions.
 
johns624
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:48 pm

chimborazo wrote:
Wanting to be happy in life and for people to get on and life to be good for everyone and to take care of other people, to live in understanding are the sources of much of the worlds good. Fortunately these human qualities will continue to exist with or without religions.
And then money gets involved and it's every man for himself...
 
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Phosphorus
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Sat Aug 28, 2021 6:47 pm

johns624 wrote:
chimborazo wrote:
Wanting to be happy in life and for people to get on and life to be good for everyone and to take care of other people, to live in understanding are the sources of much of the worlds good. Fortunately these human qualities will continue to exist with or without religions.
And then money gets involved and it's every man for himself...

And then some folks start screaming "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer!" and rolling their panzers around uninvited, trying to "overturn godless untermenschen, who hijack to manage the world by the yoke of money".
Until they run into fellows, who counterattack them with a bayonet charge, shouting "For Motherland! For Stalin!"

Nah, you don't need an "official religion" to do all those, if you can get around simply with ideology...
 
MEA-707
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Wed Sep 01, 2021 3:59 pm

In theory, Ratzinger can return as Pope after Francis resigns. Wouldn't that be interesting to have a Pope run two non consecutive terms?
 
johns624
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:11 pm

While there have always been liberal and conservative factions in the Church, it seems like there is a sizeable group that is emerging that I call Evangelical Catholics. They are the pro-Trump, anti-vax crowd who act more and more like Fundamentalist Christians.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:15 pm

johns624 wrote:
While there have always been liberal and conservative factions in the Church, it seems like there is a sizeable group that is emerging that I call Evangelical Catholics. They are the pro-Trump, anti-vax crowd who act more and more like Fundamentalist Christians.



I think the words you are searching for are Southern Baptists. And the truth is that I have seen many Catholics that would be more at home in a Southern Baptist church if not for their addiction to tradition.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:36 pm

Back to the subject though.
It doesn't look like Pope Francis is resigning.

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news ... esign.html

Does Your Holiness fear that one of the most insistent things with which the media, essentially Italian, distinguish you, Holy Father, is that when the Pope’s health is questioned, many think or insist on the old argument of resignation, the “I’m going home, I can’t take it anymore...”? It is a permanent theme, I believe, in your life as Pope, isn’t it?

Yes, they even told me that last week that was very popular. Eva [Fernández] told me that; she even said it with a very nice Argentine expression, and I told her that I had no idea because I read only one newspaper here in the morning, the newspaper of Rome. I read it because I like the way of its headline, I read it quickly and that’s it, I don’t get into the game. I don’t watch television. And I do receive the report about some of the news of the day, but I found out much later, a few days later, that there was something about me resigning. Whenever a Pope is ill, there is always a breeze or a hurricane of conclave. [Laughter.]
 
MEA-707
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Re: Pope Francis to resign ? ?

Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:38 pm

Anyway, more seriously; of course they deny it until the day he resigns, otherwise he would be a lame duck. It seems already that Francis is less active and outspoken in the last year or two, maybe he is becoming tired or ailing. And after Benedictus 8 years (2005-2013) and him now at 8 years too he might feel that's a proper period to round off his term. 8 Years is the maximum time for a US president too so maybe it's a recent internal rule of the Vatican to let popes retire after that. Also John Paul and Benedictus were both around 85 when they died or retired, Francis will be 85 soon.

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