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Kiwirob
Posts: 13704
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Re: Taxes abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:35 am

par13del wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
The Supreme Court early Wednesday let a Texas state law take effect that allows private citizens to sue to uphold a ban on the procedure after six weeks of pregnancy.


Link to politico article

Two things seem very odd to me:
1. 6 weeks limit
2. private citizens can sue

1. 6 weeks limit is absurd, it effectively means, no abortions because many women don't even know they are pregnant and a decision to have an abortion isn't taken lightly. So time for the mother to (not) be is essential to make a decision like that.

Since Roe v Wade is essentially still in effect, this is the best that can be done.....
Dutchy wrote:
2. Private citizens can sue other citizens? Really? What kind of society do you want? Another private citizen has nothing to do with what another citizen does, or doesn't do. What kind of a society do you get? Kind of society that spies on each other, mistrusting each other. Not unlike the. former DDR.

It is so simple: if you do not want an abortion, don't have one, your choice. But don't interfere in another person's life like that. In my view, this extreme Christian believes, should have no place in politics. The will of these Christians can't be put on society at large. Anyhow, those are my beliefs. I am curious if someone could explain this in more detail, why this is a good idea.

Governments use all manner of means to control peoples lives, once we allow those tools to be used, they are available to all sides, economic sanctions, taxes to stimulate certain behaviours, and on and on it goes.


The way I read your comments is you agree with what's been passed into law.

What I don't understand is women make up 50% of the electorate why are they voting for politicians who aren't working in there best interests, are Texan women little more than turkeys voting for Christmas?
 
petertenthije
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Re: Texas abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:41 am

par13del wrote:
Question, on what basis would the SCOTUS rule on this law which has not yet been challenged at the state or federal level, I know there are exceptions which is what I am inquiring about, but the SCOTUS usually accepts cases that have already been challenged within the state then referred.

So does that mean that when a state passes a law that goes against the constitution or federal law, that the supreme court can't do anything about it till an official complaint is made? Even though the supreme court know of the existence of said law? I can see how this would have worked back in the day of the telegraph, but with today's instant communication it should not be necessary for the supreme court to wait for the damage to be done?
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Taxes abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:07 pm

seb146 wrote:
Out of all the pregnancies, abortion accounts for very, very few of them. Republicans and the "right to birth" crowd don't care that abortion for birth control accounts for so few abortions. This is another excuse for right wing evangelicals to control women. They are all outraged over how Taliban treats women but gladly do the same to women here.


I'm pro abortion, but your comment isn't that accurate. There's about 900k abortions performed in the US per year, compared to an average of 3.5m births. During Reagans administration which was the highpoint for abortion in the US, a third of all pregnancies were aborted, 1.6m per year, it's now 20%.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Texas abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:11 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
At last, Texas is doing it right. About time to challenge the fallacy that an abortion is a 'constitutional right'.

If Democrats believe abortion should be federally protected, they can if they wish enact federal legislation protecting it. Not hiding under the false pretense that this is in the constitution.

Won't get my hopes up expecting the Supreme Court will overturn Roe, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with hoping.


Unless you're a pregnant female what right do you have to even participate in the discussion? This has nothing to do with men, god, flying spaghetti monsters, the lock ness monster, or any other entity on this planet, it's absolutely 100% women's business.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Texas abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:15 pm

johns624 wrote:
Texas had to ban abortions because they have to replace all of the people who were too stupid to get vaccinated, who are dying of Covid down there.


I wish this forum had a like button!
 
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casinterest
Posts: 14155
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Re: Texas abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:07 pm

The decision last night by the Supreme Court has created a very interesting issue. I wonder how this will play out.
Women's rights have been pushed right into the forefront of the cultural battle issues, along with religion.

Immediately, it may change the dynamics of the California Recall. It may also completely solidify the VA and NJ races for the year.


In Texas, I have to wonder what health insurance and company policies are going to be in the wake of these new laws. Will we see the same travel bans that were issued over the bathroom cases?
Will we see companies charge more for health insurance due to the guns and reproductive issue?
Will we see companies change hiring policies?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Texas abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:10 pm

casinterest wrote:
The decision last night by the Supreme Court has created a very interesting issue. I wonder how this will play out.
Women's rights have been pushed right into the forefront of the cultural battle issues, along with religion.

Immediately, it may change the dynamics of the California Recall. It may also completely solidify the VA and NJ races for the year.


In Texas, I have to wonder what health insurance and company policies are going to be in the wake of these new laws. Will we see the same travel bans that were issued over the bathroom cases?
Will we see companies charge more for health insurance due to the guns and reproductive issue?
Will we see companies change hiring policies?


Lots of potential backfire in many ways - as I said, HR talk is already centering on whether or not it's worth moving to TX if it will enrage female employees. Best to find a more friendly state.

And certainly any hopes of turning blue states back to purple or purple to red are being shot by this. Women are not going to allow a clawback of their liberties, and men who care about them same. Many GOP commentators who do not prioritize abortion are already rolling their eyes at what this may do to 2022 races.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Texas abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:30 pm

par13del wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
The other danger from this law and the US Supreme Court's decision not to prevent the Texas law from going into effect is to eviscerate the 4th and 14th Amendment (4th - right to not be subject to illegal search and seizures, 14th power of the Federal government over the states, originally to enforce the ban on slavery). This could destroy a lot of reasonable Federal regulations, including civil rights, voting rights, GLTBQ+ rights and so on.

Question, on what basis would the SCOTUS rule on this law which has not yet been challenged at the state or federal level, I know there are exceptions which is what I am inquiring about, but the SCOTUS usually accepts cases that have already been challenged within the state then referred.

This case to the Supreme Court was brought by groups for one or more abortion clinics who are pretty much out of business with the courts ruling, individuals and support groups as to abortion access, ACLU chapters and others who will be in legal jeporady by the Texas Law. https://reproductiverights.org/supreme- ... -in-texas/
 
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casinterest
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Re: Texas abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 3:39 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The decision last night by the Supreme Court has created a very interesting issue. I wonder how this will play out.
Women's rights have been pushed right into the forefront of the cultural battle issues, along with religion.

Immediately, it may change the dynamics of the California Recall. It may also completely solidify the VA and NJ races for the year.


In Texas, I have to wonder what health insurance and company policies are going to be in the wake of these new laws. Will we see the same travel bans that were issued over the bathroom cases?
Will we see companies charge more for health insurance due to the guns and reproductive issue?
Will we see companies change hiring policies?


Lots of potential backfire in many ways - as I said, HR talk is already centering on whether or not it's worth moving to TX if it will enrage female employees. Best to find a more friendly state.

And certainly any hopes of turning blue states back to purple or purple to red are being shot by this. Women are not going to allow a clawback of their liberties, and men who care about them same. Many GOP commentators who do not prioritize abortion are already rolling their eyes at what this may do to 2022 races.



Looks like the Executive Branch will look to act where the Judicial Branch failed, and where the Legislative Branch can't maneuver.


https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... s-law-sb8/

While the Chief Justice was clear to stress that the action by the Supreme Court is not a final ruling on the future of Roe, the impact of last night’s decision will be immediate and requires an immediate response. One reason I became the first president in history to create a Gender Policy Council was to be prepared to react to such assaults on women’s rights. Hence, I am directing that Council and the Office of the White House Counsel to launch a whole-of-government effort to respond to this decision, looking specifically to the Department of Health and Human Services and the Department of Justice to see what steps the Federal Government can take to ensure that women in Texas have access to safe and legal abortions as protected by Roe, and what legal tools we have to insulate women and providers from the impact of Texas’ bizarre scheme of outsourced enforcement to private parties.
 
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Tugger
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Re: Texas abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:11 pm

Honestly if I had the wealth and mobility, I would want to "Knowingly transport a woman to have an abortion past 6 weeks". I would publicize it and make it clear what I was doing. Sue me. Begin the court process and watch the law fail on its face.

Tugg
 
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casinterest
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Re: Texas abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:35 pm

The one thing that gets me mad, and it should really make everyone mad is that we ask the Judges to rule based on what the law says and what the current spirit of the law is.
Five supreme court justices completely failed in this regard, and put thousands of people in jeopardy because of a "procedural quirk" in application of punishment. Those five justices should resign in disgrace.
 
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seb146
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Re: Taxes abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:57 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Out of all the pregnancies, abortion accounts for very, very few of them. Republicans and the "right to birth" crowd don't care that abortion for birth control accounts for so few abortions. This is another excuse for right wing evangelicals to control women. They are all outraged over how Taliban treats women but gladly do the same to women here.


I'm pro abortion, but your comment isn't that accurate. There's about 900k abortions performed in the US per year, compared to an average of 3.5m births. During Reagans administration which was the highpoint for abortion in the US, a third of all pregnancies were aborted, 1.6m per year, it's now 20%.


And out of those 900,000 how many are for birth control and how many were medically necessary and how many saved the life of the mother? Out of those 900,000, how many are you willing to pay more in taxes and fees to care for the baby and parents? Again: people who want to ban all abortion are not "pro-life" but, rather, "pro-birth".

EDIT FOR STATS:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/ss/ss6907a1.htm

In 2018, CDC reported that just over 600,000 abortions were performed across the country, which was down.
Last edited by seb146 on Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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par13del
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Re: Taxes abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:05 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
The way I read your comments is you agree with what's been passed into law.

In all my post I have expressed no opinion on the actual law, what I have stated is that the republican party is using the legal means available to them at the state level to implement their policies while the democrats continue to try to effect change at the federal level, which in recent times has not been working, Washington is too polarized and available to the highest bidder. Unlike a lot of other countries, the majority of things that affect everyday life is controlled by the state legislatures versus the federal government, look at the 4 major examples in the USA during the height of the pandemic last year, New York and California versus Texas and Florida, all doing their own thing but falling along party lines.

Those against the law or in a macro sense against the republican party have to take the fight to where the republicans reside, at the state level. The House and the Senate along with the administration are all under democratic leadership, let's see how fast they can kill this Texas law, if they cannot - which I suspect they cannot - the challenge will have to come from one of the number of legal challenges going to the Texas Supreme court then on to the SCOTUS, unless they can initiate shut downs of the state of Texas to force the politicians to rethink.
 
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par13del
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Re: Texas abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:15 pm

petertenthije wrote:
par13del wrote:
Question, on what basis would the SCOTUS rule on this law which has not yet been challenged at the state or federal level, I know there are exceptions which is what I am inquiring about, but the SCOTUS usually accepts cases that have already been challenged within the state then referred.

So does that mean that when a state passes a law that goes against the constitution or federal law, that the supreme court can't do anything about it till an official complaint is made? Even though the supreme court know of the existence of said law? I can see how this would have worked back in the day of the telegraph, but with today's instant communication it should not be necessary for the supreme court to wait for the damage to be done?

Mu understanding is that there is a process that has to be followed, there are very few cases that go to the supreme court without going through the state then federal court system, so far this is a state law for which I think no ruling has been made locally (in Texas), so my question was on what basis did it actually get to the SCOTUS for a ruling. I honestly do not know, and reading their half ass response, they seem to be saying that until it is challenged - which has to be done in Texas - there is nothing they can do.
Based on past history, I think the opponents of the law stand a better chance getting a state judge (in Texas) or a federal judge (who presides over the region encompassing Texas) to initiate a stay. Just my opinion, but since this is being done "legally" by the elected legislature it has to be fought there or in the courts, or as a last resort, in the street.
 
skyservice_330
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Re: Texas abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:19 pm

This just further demonstrates the absolute hypocrisy and ideological hollowness of the political right at the moment.

In one breath, they pearl clutch and put on a big show about their supposed concern for the women and girls of Afghanistan, as a means to criticize the current POTUS (concern which is superficial and tactical at best) while at the same time supporting regressive laws related to reproductive rights for women in the USA.

Similarly, any anti-masker, anti-vaxxer that is bleating about government intrusion on their body and health should STFU and sit down if they are simultaneously supporting measures such as this.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Texas abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 8:57 pm

I wonder if the Federal Government will have to open Clinics on Federal Lands to allow women to have their Constitutional rights restored. Seeing as Texas has started supporting Domestic terrorism.
 
bhill
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Re: Texas abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:34 pm

I was always to understand that to bring suit against another party, actual damages did or will occur against the plaintiff. So how is exercising ones' legal activity, an abortion, actionable by filing a lawsuit? I think this law will be thrown out when someone attempts to sue for damages they have not or will not suffer.
 
bhill
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Re: Texas abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:39 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
At last, Texas is doing it right. About time to challenge the fallacy that an abortion is a 'constitutional right'.

If Democrats believe abortion should be federally protected, they can if they wish enact federal legislation protecting it. Not hiding under the false pretense that this is in the constitution.

Won't get my hopes up expecting the Supreme Court will overturn Roe, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with hoping.


Time for Texas to fashion a law that men can only have sex to procreate, because per Leviticus you are just wasting sperm....right? Lets see how far THAT goes.
 
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jbpdx
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Re: Texas abortion law

Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:21 pm

Get ready for boycotts. And Texas-based airlines will be in the crosshairs.
 
Kent350787
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:54 am

Based on decades of evidence from other advanced nations, the best way to reduce the abortion rate (and teen pregnancies) is to improve education and access to contraception - the legality or otherwise is almost immaterial. The Netherlands, for example, has both a very low a abortion rate and a very low rate of teen pregnancies. Other countries in Western Europe, and even Oceania are similar.

Or could it be that these laws are about control and coercion rather than any real concern about the rate of abortions?
 
emperortk
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:11 am

Kent350787 wrote:
Or could it be that these laws are about control and coercion rather than any real concern about the rate of abortions?


It's pretty clear these laws are primarily about punishing women for having sex.

Conservatives are a strange breed. Many seem to feel that on the one hand government doesn't have the power to compel people to wear a mask for public health, but on the other, government does have the power to force a women to carry a fetus to term, which will likely alter her body drastically for life. Wearing a mask is a tad bit less intrusive than pregnancy and giving birth, but consistency be damned.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:31 am

emperortk wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
Or could it be that these laws are about control and coercion rather than any real concern about the rate of abortions?


It's pretty clear these laws are primarily about punishing women for having sex.

Conservatives are a strange breed. Many seem to feel that on the one hand government doesn't have the power to compel people to wear a mask for public health, but on the other, government does have the power to force a women to carry a fetus to term, which will likely alter her body drastically for life. Wearing a mask is a tad bit less intrusive than pregnancy and giving birth, but consistency be damned.


They also believe a baker should not have to make cakes for someone offensive to them - which is totally reasonable - yet they also believe ALL women should have to comply with faith-based healthcare decisions regardless of beliefs. The dissonance is amazing.
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Taxes abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:25 am

seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Out of all the pregnancies, abortion accounts for very, very few of them. Republicans and the "right to birth" crowd don't care that abortion for birth control accounts for so few abortions. This is another excuse for right wing evangelicals to control women. They are all outraged over how Taliban treats women but gladly do the same to women here.


I'm pro abortion, but your comment isn't that accurate. There's about 900k abortions performed in the US per year, compared to an average of 3.5m births. During Reagans administration which was the highpoint for abortion in the US, a third of all pregnancies were aborted, 1.6m per year, it's now 20%.


And out of those 900,000 how many are for birth control and how many were medically necessary and how many saved the life of the mother? Out of those 900,000, how many are you willing to pay more in taxes and fees to care for the baby and parents? Again: people who want to ban all abortion are not "pro-life" but, rather, "pro-birth".

EDIT FOR STATS:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/ss/ss6907a1.htm

In 2018, CDC reported that just over 600,000 abortions were performed across the country, which was down.


I only know a single women who had an abortion for medical reasons, I know a lot of women whoi have had them to terminate unwanted babies.

The numbers I got were from https://www.guttmacher.org/

Either way I don't care why someone wants to abort a baby, it's just that they have the right to do it if they want to. I will preface this with if the pregnancy is near term and baby is without defects then I don't believe an abortion should be legal.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:36 am

The outcry about this on National liberal boards is in the thousands of posts. Yet many of those people do not live in Texas. Why are people so upset about laws in a state they don't live in?? People are free to move to a State they feel good in. Will they like --every-- law in a state they feel good in. Probably not. But you have life, and you have liberty. Go and pusue your happiness somewhere in one of our 50 states.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:46 am

Not everyone commenting here is even a US citizen, ever heard of empathy ? You're not a woman I gather, why are you commenting on the subject ?

Also this strategy will be followed in every state if it's allowed, just like voting suppression laws have been proposed or passed en masse recently.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:20 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The outcry about this on National liberal boards is in the thousands of posts. Yet many of those people do not live in Texas. Why are people so upset about laws in a state they don't live in?? People are free to move to a State they feel good in. Will they like --every-- law in a state they feel good in. Probably not. But you have life, and you have liberty. Go and pusue your happiness somewhere in one of our 50 states.


Because as Americans with sisters, mothers, cousins, wives, girlfriends, colleagues, friends - ALL women who matter and are of concern to us - this is ridiculous and we wish to defend their rights and honor, no matter where they live. This is not about like/dislike for a law, it's about standing against a petty legislative action that encourages citizens to butt into the private/personal business of others and judge them.

If you don't like abortions for a moral or religious reason, you don't have to get one. Easy. Life is not black and white, and abortion is an unfortunate necessity as a last resort in a country where depression, drug abuse, family/relationship abuse, neglect, poverty, sex crime, and many other ills continue unabated - all of which can contribute to strife in personal lives and bad relationship choices.
 
N867DA
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 10:50 am

Sometimes it seems Republicans and the Taliban aren't that different at all. The means are different but the policy goals sure do seem the same. Texas is going to keep on Texasing until a new generation comes along and realizes all their laws made sense in another century.

Imagine similar laws applied to any other "crime". Why can't I sue speeders on the freeway based on dashcam footage get a payout?
 
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par13del
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:34 am

N867DA wrote:
Sometimes it seems Republicans and the Taliban aren't that different at all. The means are different but the policy goals sure do seem the same. Texas is going to keep on Texasing until a new generation comes along and realizes all their laws made sense in another century.

Imagine similar laws applied to any other "crime". Why can't I sue speeders on the freeway based on dashcam footage get a payout?

So how exactly did these Taliban thinking republicans get into positions of power in the state of Texas to pass these type laws, did the voters run away during elections?
Methinks we need to look at the voters.....
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:53 am

bhill wrote:
I was always to understand that to bring suit against another party, actual damages did or will occur against the plaintiff. So how is exercising ones' legal activity, an abortion, actionable by filing a lawsuit? I think this law will be thrown out when someone attempts to sue for damages they have not or will not suffer.


I bet the first people that will take this law out for a spin will be the god fearing, GOP supporting parents of boy knocked who up is girlfriend, and she aborted it. All rather hypocritical because the son of god fearing, GOP supporting parents shouldn't be impregnating anyone until they are married.
 
CometII
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 1:16 pm

Wait, are these self-purported "baby lovers" the same "individuals" who, the second the fetus becomes a real citizen of their state will fight tooth and nail to DENY him or her of a good nutrition (by cutting unemployment and poverty benefits), to DENY him or her of having the full focus of the parents (by denying actual, real, civilized world maternity and paternity leaves), to DENY him or her of the chance of affordable healthcare (by opposing any and all kinds of heathcare reform and expansion), to DENY him or her of a good education (by gutting public school funding), to DENY him or her of a welcoming, non-threatening environment (by allowing the dogma of 2nd amendment worship to completely gut common sense)?

Are these "individuals" the same ones that, once this new citizen they "love and want to protect" so much, not having had proper nutrition, not having had a proper home environment due to the horrible state of employee rights in their state, not having had proper healthcare or access to mental health services, having attended terrible school districts, having lived in an environment over-saturated with guns and glorification of violence... want to put this child to the DEATH penalty as young as 16 and less even if they could get away wit it, because of a crime they committed which was the epilogue to a poor life in their state?

This is what happens when the political class gets completely taken over by the cult of ideological tribalism. Make no mistake, they don't have a damn about the babies, they only wanted a "win" for their tribe, anything else be damned.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:42 pm

Another law to subjugate women - and especially the less well-off women.

With enough money, any woman can travel to a place where a safe and medically supervised abortion is legal. If the wife of a Republican lawmaker needs an abortion, she will prolly seek one and medical privacy will take care of the publicity (or lack thereof).

Some political parties love to terrorize parts of the population. If the there was any notion to "save lives", then that notion is curiously absent when it comes to single-payer healthcare, controlling guns, environmental protection or meaningful efforts to stem the obesity epidemic. Or even the nasty little viruses, for that matter.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:48 pm

Looks like the Supreme Court may be getting some well deserved scrutiny.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... w-n1278460

“This anti-choice law is a devastating blow to Americans' constitutional rights — and the Court allowed it to see the light of day without public deliberation or transparency,” Durbin said in a statement.

He added, “At a time when public confidence in government institutions has greatly eroded, we must examine not just the constitutional impact of allowing the Texas law to take effect, but also the conservative Court’s abuse of the shadow docket.”


Abbot and the Texas GOP have created a Gold mine for democratic campaigns.
 
M564038
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 4:17 pm

Exactly. You cannot try to legislate yourself around this.
This is happening INSIDE the female body. This is no one else’s business

Kiwirob wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
At last, Texas is doing it right. About time to challenge the fallacy that an abortion is a 'constitutional right'.

If Democrats believe abortion should be federally protected, they can if they wish enact federal legislation protecting it. Not hiding under the false pretense that this is in the constitution.

Won't get my hopes up expecting the Supreme Court will overturn Roe, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with hoping.


Unless you're a pregnant female what right do you have to even participate in the discussion? This has nothing to do with men, god, flying spaghetti monsters, the lock ness monster, or any other entity on this planet, it's absolutely 100% women's business.
 
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par13del
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 4:28 pm

casinterest wrote:
Looks like the Supreme Court may be getting some well deserved scrutiny.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... w-n1278460

“This anti-choice law is a devastating blow to Americans' constitutional rights — and the Court allowed it to see the light of day without public deliberation or transparency,” Durbin said in a statement.

He added, “At a time when public confidence in government institutions has greatly eroded, we must examine not just the constitutional impact of allowing the Texas law to take effect, but also the conservative Court’s abuse of the shadow docket.”


Abbot and the Texas GOP have created a Gold mine for democratic campaigns.

Where, in Washington where nothing is being done, or at the state level where these restrictions are being put in place, including those restricting votes via redistricting and other means?
We have been hearing this talk about campaigns fodder for years, yet republican's continue to win the bulk of the state legislatures, something does not add up.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 4:33 pm

par13del wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Looks like the Supreme Court may be getting some well deserved scrutiny.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... w-n1278460

“This anti-choice law is a devastating blow to Americans' constitutional rights — and the Court allowed it to see the light of day without public deliberation or transparency,” Durbin said in a statement.

He added, “At a time when public confidence in government institutions has greatly eroded, we must examine not just the constitutional impact of allowing the Texas law to take effect, but also the conservative Court’s abuse of the shadow docket.”


Abbot and the Texas GOP have created a Gold mine for democratic campaigns.

Where, in Washington where nothing is being done, or at the state level where these restrictions are being put in place, including those restricting votes via redistricting and other means?
We have been hearing this talk about campaigns fodder for years, yet republican's continue to win the bulk of the state legislatures, something does not add up.



Due to the magically vanishing posts you missed my earlier post, but the gist of it is here.

https://thehill.com/homenews/the-memo/5 ... -haunt-gop


It is rather telling that the GOP keeps the Afghanistan non story rolling when they should be swinging from the Church bells proclaiming the abortion victory.
 
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par13del
Posts: 10993
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 4:54 pm

casinterest wrote:
Due to the magically vanishing posts you missed my earlier post, but the gist of it is here.

https://thehill.com/homenews/the-memo/5 ... -haunt-gop


It is rather telling that the GOP keeps the Afghanistan non story rolling when they should be swinging from the Church bells proclaiming the abortion victory.

Most likely because a number of them are intelligent enough to know that this law will not survive legal challenges, and no, in my opinion the SCOTUS did not render a legal opinion, they just kicked it down to the lower courts first, both state and federal.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 14155
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 4:57 pm

par13del wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Due to the magically vanishing posts you missed my earlier post, but the gist of it is here.

https://thehill.com/homenews/the-memo/5 ... -haunt-gop


It is rather telling that the GOP keeps the Afghanistan non story rolling when they should be swinging from the Church bells proclaiming the abortion victory.

Most likely because a number of them are intelligent enough to know that this law will not survive legal challenges, and no, in my opinion the SCOTUS did not render a legal opinion, they just kicked it down to the lower courts first, both state and federal.


But in the balance for now are real people's lives and real jeopardy. That is something the Supreme Court never should have allowed to happen even when kicking it to the lower court. There is a certain lack of concern for citizens in the current Supreme Court.
 
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seb146
Posts: 24076
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:19 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The outcry about this on National liberal boards is in the thousands of posts. Yet many of those people do not live in Texas. Why are people so upset about laws in a state they don't live in?? People are free to move to a State they feel good in. Will they like --every-- law in a state they feel good in. Probably not. But you have life, and you have liberty. Go and pusue your happiness somewhere in one of our 50 states.


This was handed down from the FEDERAL Supreme Court by a group of right wing extremist judges legislating from the bench. This ruling is a bellweather for other right wing extremist states who have passed similar laws. This is heading us down the path to reverse already settled law. Roe v. Wade was already decided. It is the law of the land. And these right wing extremists want to undo settled law. THAT is why people all across the country are upset.

kiwirob wrote:
Either way I don't care why someone wants to abort a baby, it's just that they have the right to do it if they want to. I will preface this with if the pregnancy is near term and baby is without defects then I don't believe an abortion should be legal


And they have already discussed late term abortion. It is not ever "oh, well, whatever, I don't want to be pregnant any more" but, rather, something horrific. The parents have already picked out clothes and a crib and probably even a name when a late term abortion has to be performed. It is never what someone wants and hopes for, like right wingers think. It is awful.
 
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par13del
Posts: 10993
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:22 pm

seb146 wrote:
This was handed down from the FEDERAL Supreme Court by a group of right wing extremist judges legislating from the bench. This ruling is a bellweather for other right wing extremist states who have passed similar laws.

Technically they did not make a ruling, existing legal challenges are allowed to continue thru the court system, when it does arrive at the SCOTUS the next time a legal ruling will be required.
"The majority stressed that it was not ruling on the constitutionality of the Texas law and did not mean to limit “procedurally proper challenges” to it."
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/01/us/s ... rtion.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/02/texas-a ... uling.html
Will people be hurt in the interim, possible, but the Texas legislature has been at this for years, somehow this does not seem to have been a major factor in local elections.
http://sites.utexas.edu/txpep/files/202 ... e-2021.pdf
 
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casinterest
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:34 pm

par13del wrote:
seb146 wrote:
This was handed down from the FEDERAL Supreme Court by a group of right wing extremist judges legislating from the bench. This ruling is a bellweather for other right wing extremist states who have passed similar laws.

Technically they did not make a ruling, existing legal challenges are allowed to continue thru the court system, when it does arrive at the SCOTUS the next time a legal ruling will be required.
"The majority stressed that it was not ruling on the constitutionality of the Texas law and did not mean to limit “procedurally proper challenges” to it."
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/01/us/s ... rtion.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/02/texas-a ... uling.html
Will people be hurt in the interim, possible, but the Texas legislature has been at this for years, somehow this does not seem to have been a major factor in local elections.
http://sites.utexas.edu/txpep/files/202 ... e-2021.pdf



The ruling to be clear , was an injunction. A way to stop the enforcement of the law prior to going into effect. A law that upends 50 years of precedent. They have put millions at health risk, and they gave the go ahead to other states to pull the same stunt.
This is giving your friend the key to the car, even though you think they are drunk levels of incompetence.
 
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par13del
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Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:56 pm

casinterest wrote:
The ruling to be clear , was an injunction. A way to stop the enforcement of the law prior to going into effect.

I think what you are saying is an injunction was requested and the SCOTUS declined.
I have been doing searches to see if said injunction was also requested at the state level, but no joy so far, perhaps that is among the existing legal challenges already filed. I wouldthink it would be easier to fast tract a state appeal versus a federal one.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 14155
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:59 pm

par13del wrote:
casinterest wrote:
The ruling to be clear , was an injunction. A way to stop the enforcement of the law prior to going into effect.

I think what you are saying is an injunction was requested and the SCOTUS declined.
I have been doing searches to see if said injunction was also requested at the state level, but no joy so far, perhaps that is among the existing legal challenges already filed. I wouldthink it would be easier to fast tract a state appeal versus a federal one.



Why would you got to a state court for a law that violates Federal law?
 
Newark727
Posts: 2605
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:49 pm

One one side of the country, historic flooding; on the other, record-breaking wildfires. And in the middle, as represented by Texas? Well, they're banning abortion. Again. Thanks guys you're swell.
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 2037
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:57 pm

Something tells me that after removing CRT from public school curriculum, technology and computer programming courses in Texas may be next:

TikTokers flood Texas abortion whistleblower site with Shrek memes, fake reports and porn

Source: The Guardian
 
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CitizenJustin
Posts: 869
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:12 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:00 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
When the National News is crying about something going on in Texas, then, I know we must be doing the right thing.


International news even. Strange criteria though. You must be sarcastic about this one, But you think it is a good idea for private citizens to sue each other. As others have said: this opens a can of worms. But then again, perhaps you were just trolling and I took the bate, shame on me.


I meant what I said...




Trust you to support a puritanical modern day witch hunt. You’ll support any draconian law as long as it pisses off the left. No surprise here.
 
Newark727
Posts: 2605
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:04 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
Something tells me that after removing CRT from public school curriculum, technology and computer programming courses in Texas may be next:

TikTokers flood Texas abortion whistleblower site with Shrek memes, fake reports and porn

Source: The Guardian


Given what happened with the voter fraud report lines last year, they really ought to have expected this.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 14155
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Fri Sep 03, 2021 9:04 pm

phatfarmlines wrote:
Something tells me that after removing CRT from public school curriculum, technology and computer programming courses in Texas may be next:

TikTokers flood Texas abortion whistleblower site with Shrek memes, fake reports and porn

Source: The Guardian



Next? They already did it. It was part of the this week's 600+ new laws. \



casinterest wrote:
Why would you got to a state court for a law that violates Federal law?


Also.. Texas never repealed it's state statutes banning abortion. A lot of the southern states still have them on the books awaiting a Roe v wade repeal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Texas
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 642
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:22 am

casinterest wrote:
It is rather telling that the GOP keeps the Afghanistan non story rolling when they should be swinging from the Church bells proclaiming the abortion victory.


Here’s a Fox News article attacking MSNBC for, wait for it, COVERING the Texas Abortion Law story. Their opinion is that they should be still talking about Afghanistan, a week after the last pullout occurred:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/msnbc-rac ... ortion-law

The MSNBC hosts collectively spent a whopping 64 minutes on the abortion law

Less than one week after the horrific Kabul terrorist attack that left 13 U.S. servicemen dead, MSNBC's liberal primetime lineup appears ready to move on from covering the dramatic fallout from President Biden's withdrawal from Afghanistan.

Rachel Maddow, MSNBC's biggest star, completely avoided the subject of Afghanistan despite several controversies that are plaguing the Biden administration from the hundreds of Americans and Afghan allies who were left stranded, the growing terror threat as the Taliban has taken over the country, to the controversial July phone call Biden had pressuring then-Afghan President Ashraf Ghani to push a "perception" of stability in the country.

Instead, "The Rachel Maddow Show" spent a whopping 36 minutes and 50 seconds sounding the alarm of the Texas abortion law that bans pregnancy terminations after six weeks, which has sparked an intense backlash among liberals.

Maddow's colleague, "All In" host Chris Hayes, similarly avoided the subject of Afghanistan and chose to dedicate nearly 20 minutes of his show to panic about the GOP-backed abortion law.


They’re painting the left as lunatics and irrational for even talking about it.

There is a reason why Fox and the GOP are downplaying the abortion law. They know it’s overall bad optics on a National level, but it excites their base.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 5143
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Texas abortion law

Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:59 am

We have to remember that Republican protection for life ends at birth.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 14155
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:43 am

sierrakilo44 wrote:

There is a reason why Fox and the GOP are downplaying the abortion law. They know it’s overall bad optics on a National level, but it excites their base.


This is the problem thought. The GOP's base has become an irrational collection of folks not rooted in reality. The fact that they won something big for their cause, and their leaders are not celebrating should five them pause as to what they are pursuing.
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