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seb146
Posts: 23962
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:01 am

par13del wrote:
seb146 wrote:
This was handed down from the FEDERAL Supreme Court by a group of right wing extremist judges legislating from the bench. This ruling is a bellweather for other right wing extremist states who have passed similar laws.

Technically they did not make a ruling, existing legal challenges are allowed to continue thru the court system, when it does arrive at the SCOTUS the next time a legal ruling will be required.
"The majority stressed that it was not ruling on the constitutionality of the Texas law and did not mean to limit “procedurally proper challenges” to it."
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/01/us/s ... rtion.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/02/texas-a ... uling.html
Will people be hurt in the interim, possible, but the Texas legislature has been at this for years, somehow this does not seem to have been a major factor in local elections.
http://sites.utexas.edu/txpep/files/202 ... e-2021.pdf


So they just punted. They are waiting out the clock. The justice who lied under oath (Kavanaugh) and the justice who refused to recuse himself (Thomas) and the justice that was rammed through (Coney) when people had already cast their votes. Three justices need to be removed from the bench because of these reasons. But they will not because reasons. We can't seat a justice nine months before an election (ironic, isn't it?) but we MUST comply with three illegal justices? Okay....
 
apodino
Posts: 4092
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:07 am

As someone who identifies as Pro-Life I have been thinking a lot about this issue, and I am seriously beginning to question the tactics used by the pro-life side. On the surface, this law would seem to look good for our cause, but I have a hard time celebrating this law. I don't like the thought of Vigilante justice, and I could seriously see this issue being used in many fraudulent ways that have nothing to do with the intent of the law. But beyond that, it seems like that pro-lifers care about eliminating abortions strictly through legislation and not by actually changing hearts and actually meeting women where they are at.

As for Roe Vs Wade....I do believe it was wrongly decided back in 1973 as there is no mention of Abortion or Health Care anywhere in the constitution. Many on this thread have said it is settled law, which to me applies the legal concept of Stare decisis. I get the concept but I have issues with it personally, as IMO people are humans and humans make mistakes and to me I believe there are situations where the court should have a means to decide that they screwed up and ruled to fix the screw up. If every ruling was settled law, Citizens United (Which I believe was legally correct but using it as an example) is on the books for good and is also settled law. But this also shows the danger of relying on the Supreme court to keep things in place rather than change the law so the Courts cannot get involved. Remember, in the Obama Administration, the Democrats had a filibuster Proof majority in the Senate and a majority in the House. They could have easily passed laws to deal with Abortion and stuff so that they would be protected in case of Roe being overturned. They chose not too. And here is a list of other things that they didnt pass when they had that supermajority.

1. Higher Minimum Wage
2. Medicare for All
3. Free College
4. Paid Family Leave
5. Childcare
6. More Labor Friendly policies

The list goes on. I do expect the dems to run on this issue and Fundraise off of it. Here is my concern though. The Democrats are going to use this as a sleight of hand. They are going to get people to laser focus on this issue with the candidates they run, all the while these candidates will take corporate money and please their corporate donors when they get into office. You arent going to get Bernie Sanders type Democrats, you are going to end up with Bill Clinton type democrats. Which means all of those things I just mentioned. Forget about them.

And the GOP is a master of this sleight of hand. People who vote for the GOP are so passionate about this issue that they believe all the other stuff that the GOP tells them, while the GOP really does nothing constructive to help anyone but their own corporate donors. And it really makes me sad because I support a Higher Minimum Wage, I support Infrastructure, I support medicare for All. A lot of pro-life Voters actually do as well. But because of the abortion issue, they run like droves to vote for the GOP. While a guy like me sits here politically homeless.
 
Max Q
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Re: Texas abortion law

Sat Sep 04, 2021 7:27 am

It’s time to build a wall around Texas

Let them be the third world they want to be
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:10 am

jbpdx wrote:
American and Southwest are on the #boycottTexas companies lists.


Here’s a thought.

All major airlines have hubs in Texas and two (AA and WN) are based there.

All airlines create a new policy where they provide free return flights from Texas to any state with more sensible abortion laws for any Texas woman seeking an abortion. Evidence can be provided with a confidential medical certificate from the doctor.

Call them “freedom flights” or similar. It’ll piss off the GOP no doubt, but if the Republicans move to legislate against this the airlines simply threaten to leave.

There’s about 50,000 abortions carried out in Texas per year. Say 30,000 can’t access it anymore due the new laws. That’s only 600 women per week to move outside the state it’s be a drop in the ocean with overall passenger numbers but it’s bring in a lot of positive publicity.
 
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Classa64
Posts: 338
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Re: Texas abortion law

Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:09 pm

This is the dumbest thing I have read about this week.
Why was making this law even a thought in someones head?
Sad part is what will this do to young, or any women for that matter that end up pregnant and end up committing suicide knowing it may well be there only way out now.
The mental health for all of us since covid is fragile as it is and for some more than others, this may push them to do such a thing.
 
dmg626
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:47 pm

Re: Texas abortion law

Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:35 pm

2 things I’ll never understand
The rights obsession with abortion
The lefts obsession with abortion
 
Ken777
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Re: Texas abortion law

Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:28 pm

I'm far from being a lawyer, but I keep thinking of the impact that HIPPA might have on folks that want to sue a mother or doctor. If a mother who had an abortion declares it then 30% of Texans (the abortion supporters) can file suit. Otherwise the mother is protected by HIPPA and her privacy might be protected from the holy rollers who try to sue. Their case would be based on illegal information and I don't know if many judges would grant them standing. Doctors cannot legally provide medical information on a patient without a HIPPA release.

HIPPA provides a great foundation for attacking the holy rollers - I hope it is used with vigor.
 
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jbpdx
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Re: Texas abortion law

Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:35 pm

BoycottTexas movement targeting Lone Star State companies grows over Abbott’s abortion ban

https://www.alternet.org/2021/09/greg-abbott/



Image

Companies on the #boycottTexas list.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: Texas abortion law

Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:27 pm

If you can sue someone for having an abortion, how about suing somebody for being unvaccinated and therefore being bio-terrorist?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:03 am

Ken777 wrote:
I'm far from being a lawyer, but I keep thinking of the impact that HIPPA might have on folks that want to sue a mother or doctor. If a mother who had an abortion declares it then 30% of Texans (the abortion supporters) can file suit. Otherwise the mother is protected by HIPPA and her privacy might be protected from the holy rollers who try to sue. Their case would be based on illegal information and I don't know if many judges would grant them standing. Doctors cannot legally provide medical information on a patient without a HIPPA release.

HIPPA provides a great foundation for attacking the holy rollers - I hope it is used with vigor.


Another interesting proposal I saw from a lawyer's commentary was the federal government hiring doctors devoted to womens' health who could be dispatched to clinics in states with laws like this. It would be pretty easy to recruit for, and these doctors could not be sued or interfered with because of qualified immunity.
 
johns624
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Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:16 am

Max Q wrote:
It’s time to build a wall around Texas

Let them be the third world they want to be
And have them pay for it... Better yet, just build the wall around 3 sides. Leave the Mexican side open.
 
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par13del
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Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:41 am

Dieuwer wrote:
If you can sue someone for having an abortion, how about suing somebody for being unvaccinated and therefore being bio-terrorist?

How about passing a law allowing citizens to sue folks who block access to women's clinics?
Laws can be used both ways...
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:51 am

par13del wrote:
How about passing a law allowing citizens to sue folks who block access to women's clinics?
Laws can be used both ways...


Unfortunately with the gerrymandered GOP control of Texas and the Supreme Court laws passed in Texas are only going to favour one side for the foreseeable future.
 
sierrakilo44
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Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:04 am

And it isn’t even this Texas law which is the worst.

The upcoming Mississippi case could be the one which actually destroys Roe vs Wade (likely now with the conservative domination of the court)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/i ... rtion-law/

It looks like it’s going to be Mississippi that sets back women’s rights 50 years.

The same state that provided the strongest fight against civil rights in the 60s, the murder of Emmett Till, the murder of Medgar Evers, the Freedom Summer murders, the obvious setting for movies like Mississippi Burning or a Time to Kill.

It’s the state that’s last in High School Graduation but first in teen pregnancy is about to dictate on reproductive rights to the rest of the nation.
 
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seb146
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Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:24 am

And let's not forget the government handouts. All that government money for reporting on women doing whatever they want to do. Free government money. So now Republicans love government hand outs? okay.....
 
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Dutchy
Topic Author
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Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 6:32 am

seb146 wrote:
And let's not forget the government handouts. All that government money for reporting on women doing whatever they want to do. Free government money. So now Republicans love government hand outs? okay.....


Is it government money? I thought it was money from the women and people involved.
 
JayinKitsap
Posts: 2625
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:55 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:10 am

Everyone is missing the big thing here. Some talented lawyers looked at how the federal judiciary has blocked most state laws on abortion and other hot buttons because the federal court has jurisdiction over states actions. By not having a state action but allow for civil lawsuits is a States issue, no federal involvement can occur until actual cases work up thru the system. Quite clever as it squashed the injunctions. We will be seeing this approach on many areas if it works, the national injunctions all over the place had gone too far.

Each state should decide what its laws are, just as they do on murder, assault, rape, robbery, driver's licenses, business, and so on. Personally, I feel a woman should have a choice possibly out to 4 months, knocking off a baby after it comes out doesn't seem right.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:36 am

JayinKitsap wrote:
knocking off a baby after it comes out doesn't seem right.


This is not advocated for, or legal, in any state. Any procedures later than 20-21 weeks are extremely rare, and are limited to cases where doctors believe the mother's health or viability of the fetus are at risk.

https://www.kff.org/womens-health-polic ... pregnancy/
 
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par13del
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Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:09 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
par13del wrote:
How about passing a law allowing citizens to sue folks who block access to women's clinics?
Laws can be used both ways...


Unfortunately with the gerrymandered GOP control of Texas and the Supreme Court laws passed in Texas are only going to favour one side for the foreseeable future.

Yeah, but there are states that are controlled by democrats where such laws can be passed to protect those women who have to run the gauntlet to obtain medical care.
Action has to follow outrage and so far, the GOP appears to be the one taking all the action on the political stage.
 
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par13del
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Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:11 pm

To add to my last post, is it any coincidence that violence against clinics has gone down as more states go GOP?
 
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seb146
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:21 pm

par13del wrote:
To add to my last post, is it any coincidence that violence against clinics has gone down as more states go GOP?


Because clinics are forced to close. Republicans are fed the tired lie that Planned Parenthood only performs abortions and performs them on-demand. None of that is true. PP helps with reproductive health as well as mammograms, prenatal care, STI testing, but abortions are not performed at any PP clinic anywhere because of federal law.
 
alfa164
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Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:06 pm

seb146 wrote:
par13del wrote:
Republicans are fed the tired lie that Planned Parenthood only performs abortions and performs them on-demand.


Lies are something too many Republicans are believing - or want to believe - these days. Politicians are taking advantage of the "we-only-want-to-hear-what-we-already-believe" phenomenon.
 
johns624
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Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:21 pm

alfa164 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
par13del wrote:
Republicans are fed the tired lie that Planned Parenthood only performs abortions and performs them on-demand.


Lies are something too many Republicans are believing - or want to believe - these days. Politicians are taking advantage of the "we-only-want-to-hear-what-we-already-believe" phenomenon.
Ignorance is bliss. I'm on one "conservative" outdoor website where people are constantly talking down a college education. They think it's just liberal brainwashing.
 
SL1200MK2
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 11:00 pm

Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:59 pm

johns624 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
seb146 wrote:


Lies are something too many Republicans are believing - or want to believe - these days. Politicians are taking advantage of the "we-only-want-to-hear-what-we-already-believe" phenomenon.
Ignorance is bliss. I'm on one "conservative" outdoor website where people are constantly talking down a college education. They think it's just liberal brainwashing.


Oh I see that too a lot. It’s a formal education is too “elite” so they’ll listen to the pillow guy.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:12 pm

https://www.politicalorphans.com/i-chose-an-abortion/

She makes the point that this should also apply to guys masturbating in the shower. Those sperm are alive and capable (mostly) of starting a human life

Also, Jewish/Christian scriptures do not address this problem ever (except in the case of lying conservatives who have re-written a few verses of the Torah) ((which can be summarized under the category if only God knew as much as I do he would have gotten it right))

The Torah is considered by Jews to teach that human life begins with the first breath. (god formed man from the clay, and THEN breathed a life giving spirit into him). Of course most wacky conservative christians don't think Jews have the standing to interpret Jewish scripture. Go figure!
 
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par13del
Posts: 10965
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:14 pm

seb146 wrote:
par13del wrote:
To add to my last post, is it any coincidence that violence against clinics has gone down as more states go GOP?


Because clinics are forced to close. Republicans are fed the tired lie that Planned Parenthood only performs abortions and performs them on-demand. None of that is true. PP helps with reproductive health as well as mammograms, prenatal care, STI testing, but abortions are not performed at any PP clinic anywhere because of federal law.

Whether true or not, the GOP are taking over more and more state assemblies and are passing more and more laws to their ideology, perhaps they are doing this while all other eyes are focused on Washington. The battle is being fought in the states and so far, compared to what is taking place in Washington, their agenda is being implemented, time for folks tp awake from their slumber.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Texas abortion law

Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:53 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... al-rights/

This seems to gives the right to abortion providers, assisters, and women to sue in federal court if they constitutional rights have been abridged by state law persons, whether state employees or not. Very interesting. This may give the supreme court the backbone (boner anybody LOL) to find the Texas law unworkable.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Texas abortion law

Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:44 pm

Women are now host bodies...
 
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Tugger
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Re: Texas abortion law

Tue Sep 07, 2021 3:37 pm

It seems some business people still don't get the need to stay PUBLICLY neutral on hot-button issues like abortion.
https://kotaku.com/tripwire-ceo-steps-d ... 1847626560
John Gibson, the CEO of Tripwire Interactive—the studio behind Maneater and Killing Floor—has “stepped down.” This follows the enormous public and internal backlash over his support for Texas’ recent decision to strip women of a basic human right.
[...]
On September 5, Gibson tweeted:

Proud of #USSupremeCourt affirming the Texas law banning abortion for babies with a heartbeat. As an entertainer I don’t get political often. Yet with so many vocal peers on the other side of this issue, I felt it was important to go on the record as a pro-life game developer.


Yeah, ooops!

Tugg
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Texas abortion law

Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:02 pm

Tugger wrote:
It seems some business people still don't get the need to stay PUBLICLY neutral on hot-button issues like abortion.
https://kotaku.com/tripwire-ceo-steps-d ... 1847626560
John Gibson, the CEO of Tripwire Interactive—the studio behind Maneater and Killing Floor—has “stepped down.” This follows the enormous public and internal backlash over his support for Texas’ recent decision to strip women of a basic human right.
[...]
On September 5, Gibson tweeted:

Proud of #USSupremeCourt affirming the Texas law banning abortion for babies with a heartbeat. As an entertainer I don’t get political often. Yet with so many vocal peers on the other side of this issue, I felt it was important to go on the record as a pro-life game developer.


Yeah, ooops!

Tugg


BODs move at lightning speed these days. That was certainly next-level dumb.
 
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seb146
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Re: Texas abortion law

Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:56 pm

Where are companion health care bills? Women who need to abort a fetus because of ectopic pregnancy or woman who decide that a fetus developing only half a brain or one lung is just not viable will now have to pay how much in medical expenses? Mental health treatment for women and girls who are raped and forced to carry their attackers child to term?

Also, I have not seen any peer reviewed research as to why banning abortion after six weeks is medically necessary.
 
apodino
Posts: 4092
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:50 pm

seb146 wrote:
par13del wrote:
To add to my last post, is it any coincidence that violence against clinics has gone down as more states go GOP?


Because clinics are forced to close. Republicans are fed the tired lie that Planned Parenthood only performs abortions and performs them on-demand. None of that is true. PP helps with reproductive health as well as mammograms, prenatal care, STI testing, but abortions are not performed at any PP clinic anywhere because of federal law.


This is a classic example of the PP Kool Aid being drank again. No Planned Parenthood clinic does mammograms, only breast screenings. Planned Parenthood likes to trot out the 97 percent number, but the way they get to it is misleading, as lets say a woman is pregnant. The same woman will get a pregnancy test, prenatal care, and an abortion for the same pregnancy. They will break these out separately so that it looks like abortion is only 33 percent, but it was the treatment of the same pregnancy.

Be that as it may though, the real thing that shows what they are all about was the Dr. Leana Wen firing. For those of you who don't know, Dr. Leana Wen was named PP president after Cecile Richards (who interestingly enough is the daughter of the last Democratic governor in Texas, before she lost and unleashed George W. Bush on us) retired. As president, Dr. Wen wanted to lead Planned Parenthood into a more broad based healthcare network where they truly did provide and focus on a variety of health care options for Women. Because she wanted Planned Parenthood to go in this direction, with less emphasis on Abortion, a lot of times she didnt even mention abortion when she did interviews. This really angered the Planned Parenthood BOD, who's number one goal is for their clinics to perform more abortions (there is a big money element to this). Therefore Dr. Wen was told to pursue other interests, and to counter the narrative that PP is a racist organization (Which it originally was because Margaret Sanger was herself a racist and wanted to eliminate the black population), they hired the current president. Here are a couple of articles from non partisan sources, including from Dr. Wen herself on this.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/07/17/leana-wen-planned-parenthood-227400/
https://www.yahoo.com/news/planned-parenthoods-former-president-says-040100112.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAA_Unth7KKRre7J-ECPLhiQ4i-jRtg5-Obo6LLcS4CTyE4RJ5AklV_dwTAj3rg4AsFvvtUEGwuvkMV5UYCni0GqvXYno-ZkBw5tWOVCyukpFVMkhVDtActtT5qtGQ46_PFBO-c7WALcKaWEC3nbwnRmq_9dnw_KL31XZBdbtK64I
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/opinion/sunday/leana-wen-planned-parenthood.html

I have also heard from many Planned Parenthood workers that the more abortions they do, the higher the bonuses are, and if you don't perform enough abortions, you are fired. It is blatantly obvious where this organizations priorities are. And they don't even have the guts to tell Dr. Wen to her face that she was fired (She read about it in a WSJ article I believe)

I don't care where you stand on the abortion issue, but the PP gaslighting really bothers me. We can debate the merits of Roe V Wade and the Texas law, and we should be having those debates. But I do not believe that PP is an organization that acts in the best interest of women, and I believe they are very deceptive in what they offer and everyone just buys it hook line and sinker. In fact...I just went to their website and for an organization that is about health care, to only have one MD on the board of directors is very telling.

That being said, I have a lot of issues with the Texas law as is written, and even Trump says its not going to be on the books for long.

Not related to this issue, but since her firing Dr. Wen imo has been doing an outstanding job with the Pandemic, and it is my opinion that she, not Dr. Fauci, should be leading te governments efforts on this. That is an issue for a different thread though.
 
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par13del
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Re: Texas abortion law

Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:28 pm

So now that I have put on my tin foil hat, this is all about closing the borders. Once the Texas citizens start crossing the border, if NAFTA does not allow Texans to sue the returning residents for procedures done internationally, NAFTA will have Texas as a major enemy, and making it more difficult for US citizens to go south is next on the agenda. Throw in the trucking industry and you got extras.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-58482850
 
Dogman
Posts: 157
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:47 pm

Re: Texas abortion law

Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:05 pm

apodino wrote:
I have also heard from many Planned Parenthood workers that the more abortions they do, the higher the bonuses are, and if you don't perform enough abortions, you are fired. It is blatantly obvious where this organizations priorities are. And they don't even have the guts to tell Dr. Wen to her face that she was fired (She read about it in a WSJ article I believe)


A statement like this requires more proof than just "I've heard..."

par13del wrote:
So now that I have put on my tin foil hat, this is all about closing the borders. Once the Texas citizens start crossing the border, if NAFTA does not allow Texans to sue the returning residents for procedures done internationally, NAFTA will have Texas as a major enemy, and making it more difficult for US citizens to go south is next on the agenda. Throw in the trucking industry and you got extras.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-58482850


Maybe Mexico just saw a business opportunity. Americans already travel to Mexico for medical treatment, just add abortion to the list.
 
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Tugger
Posts: 11480
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Re: Texas abortion law

Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:20 am

Interesting writing on how the Texas law will fall.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/09/07/ ... rtion-law/

I'll be interested to here what our more legally capable posters think of what it suggests.

Tugg
 
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seb146
Posts: 23962
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:31 am

apodino wrote:
seb146 wrote:
par13del wrote:
To add to my last post, is it any coincidence that violence against clinics has gone down as more states go GOP?


Because clinics are forced to close. Republicans are fed the tired lie that Planned Parenthood only performs abortions and performs them on-demand. None of that is true. PP helps with reproductive health as well as mammograms, prenatal care, STI testing, but abortions are not performed at any PP clinic anywhere because of federal law.


This is a classic example of the PP Kool Aid being drank again. No Planned Parenthood clinic does mammograms, only breast screenings. Planned Parenthood likes to trot out the 97 percent number, but the way they get to it is misleading, as lets say a woman is pregnant. The same woman will get a pregnancy test, prenatal care, and an abortion for the same pregnancy. They will break these out separately so that it looks like abortion is only 33 percent, but it was the treatment of the same pregnancy.

Be that as it may though, the real thing that shows what they are all about was the Dr. Leana Wen firing. For those of you who don't know, Dr. Leana Wen was named PP president after Cecile Richards (who interestingly enough is the daughter of the last Democratic governor in Texas, before she lost and unleashed George W. Bush on us) retired. As president, Dr. Wen wanted to lead Planned Parenthood into a more broad based healthcare network where they truly did provide and focus on a variety of health care options for Women. Because she wanted Planned Parenthood to go in this direction, with less emphasis on Abortion, a lot of times she didnt even mention abortion when she did interviews. This really angered the Planned Parenthood BOD, who's number one goal is for their clinics to perform more abortions (there is a big money element to this). Therefore Dr. Wen was told to pursue other interests, and to counter the narrative that PP is a racist organization (Which it originally was because Margaret Sanger was herself a racist and wanted to eliminate the black population), they hired the current president. Here are a couple of articles from non partisan sources, including from Dr. Wen herself on this.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/07/17/leana-wen-planned-parenthood-227400/
https://www.yahoo.com/news/planned-parenthoods-former-president-says-040100112.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAA_Unth7KKRre7J-ECPLhiQ4i-jRtg5-Obo6LLcS4CTyE4RJ5AklV_dwTAj3rg4AsFvvtUEGwuvkMV5UYCni0GqvXYno-ZkBw5tWOVCyukpFVMkhVDtActtT5qtGQ46_PFBO-c7WALcKaWEC3nbwnRmq_9dnw_KL31XZBdbtK64I
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/opinion/sunday/leana-wen-planned-parenthood.html

I have also heard from many Planned Parenthood workers that the more abortions they do, the higher the bonuses are, and if you don't perform enough abortions, you are fired. It is blatantly obvious where this organizations priorities are. And they don't even have the guts to tell Dr. Wen to her face that she was fired (She read about it in a WSJ article I believe)

I don't care where you stand on the abortion issue, but the PP gaslighting really bothers me. We can debate the merits of Roe V Wade and the Texas law, and we should be having those debates. But I do not believe that PP is an organization that acts in the best interest of women, and I believe they are very deceptive in what they offer and everyone just buys it hook line and sinker. In fact...I just went to their website and for an organization that is about health care, to only have one MD on the board of directors is very telling.

That being said, I have a lot of issues with the Texas law as is written, and even Trump says its not going to be on the books for long.

Not related to this issue, but since her firing Dr. Wen imo has been doing an outstanding job with the Pandemic, and it is my opinion that she, not Dr. Fauci, should be leading te governments efforts on this. That is an issue for a different thread though.


Planned Parenthood does more than perform abortions. They also have STI testing and prenatal care (which means the fetus will be carried to term).

Abortion quotas? Unproven

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/plann ... on-quotas/

According to right wing anti-choice/pro-birth sites, yes they do. According to "unnamed sources" yes they do. But it has not been proven by PP or PP supporters.

What is the medical reason abortions can not be performed after six weeks? These male law makers in Texas must know something medical that women do not. So, let's hear it. Peer reviewed studies only, please.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13932
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Wed Sep 08, 2021 1:55 am

Tugger wrote:
Interesting writing on how the Texas law will fall.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/09/07/ ... rtion-law/

I'll be interested to here what our more legally capable posters think of what it suggests.

Tugg




I always wondered from the start about a countersuit. At the reading of the bounty, a civil lawsuit indicates that the second this winds up in a court of law, then the government is actually involved in abridging someone's constitutional right to have an abortion. Therefore the person bringing the suit, and the judge hearing the case would be denying someone's constitutional rights through undo burden.



This never should have made it past the Supreme Court's first case,
 
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DarkSnowyNight
Posts: 2912
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:59 pm

Re: Texas abortion law

Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:34 am

apodino wrote:

I have also heard from many Planned Parenthood workers that the more abortions they do, the higher the bonuses are, and if you don't perform enough abortions, you are fired. It is blatantly obvious where this organizations priorities are. And they don't even have the guts to tell Dr. Wen to her face that she was fired (She read about it in a WSJ article I believe)



Extraordinary claims... you know the rest.
 
Ken777
Posts: 10194
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:39 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:46 am

Just watched an interesting news story on MSNBC (Rachel, no less) and there was a powerful comment by a well known Constitutional Attorney named Laurence H. Tribe, the Carl M. Loeb University Professor and Professor of Constitutional Law Emeritus at Harvard and the Justice Department’s first head of the Office of Access to Justice. Mr. Tribe's letter to the Boston Globe can be found at https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/09/07/ ... rtion-law/

The interesting point is that Mr. Lobe represented a local pub wanting to get a liquor license, but was banned because a church that was across the alley from it - too close - and had the right (as a close church) to ban granting of the license.

The USSC found for the pub because it said that the state could not delegate a state's authority to a private organization,

Interesting read as - it may well be the killer for the Texas law. Even tossing in the KKK Law is interesting as it brings in KKK type threats, with significant damages.
 
apodino
Posts: 4092
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:11 am

There are a couple of people questioning my statement about quotas. I do believe they exist and I do believe the claims of many former PP workers on this. I will leave you guys with a link to this article from the San Francisco Examiner. Basically it says that a south Texas affiliate of Planned Parenthood actually left PP and went independent because PP wanted them to perform abortions and they wouldn’t do it. Despite what this organization claims, I truly believe they are first and foremost an abortion business.

https://www.sfexaminer.com/national-news/planned-parenthood-severs-ties-to-texas-affiliate-for-planning-parenthood-instead-of-performing-abortions/
 
Kent350787
Posts: 2037
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 12:06 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:21 am

apodino wrote:
There are a couple of people questioning my statement about quotas. I do believe they exist and I do believe the claims of many former PP workers on this. I will leave you guys with a link to this article from the San Francisco Examiner. Basically it says that a south Texas affiliate of Planned Parenthood actually left PP and went independent because PP wanted them to perform abortions and they wouldn’t do it. Despite what this organization claims, I truly believe they are first and foremost an abortion business.

https://www.sfexaminer.com/national-news/planned-parenthood-severs-ties-to-texas-affiliate-for-planning-parenthood-instead-of-performing-abortions/


One article from 11 years ago where every single source including the so-called Corpus Christi Caller Times links back to the explicitly pro-birth Life Issues Institute. Seriously?

Your belief without evidence doesn't make the claim true.
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:33 pm

apodino wrote:
There are a couple of people questioning my statement about quotas. I do believe they exist and I do believe the claims of many former PP workers on this. I will leave you guys with a link to this article from the San Francisco Examiner. Basically it says that a south Texas affiliate of Planned Parenthood actually left PP and went independent because PP wanted them to perform abortions and they wouldn’t do it. Despite what this organization claims, I truly believe they are first and foremost an abortion business.


That would be solved if, in line with the other thread on this forum, the US adopted universal government funded healthcare.

Then there wouldn’t be a problem with a private company trying to perform as many abortions as possible for profit would there? All abortions would be fully free, fully taxpayer funded and available in as many locations as possible?

But of course the GOP is almost as anti-healthcare as they are anti-abortion so no chance.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Texas abortion law

Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:46 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
apodino wrote:
There are a couple of people questioning my statement about quotas. I do believe they exist and I do believe the claims of many former PP workers on this. I will leave you guys with a link to this article from the San Francisco Examiner. Basically it says that a south Texas affiliate of Planned Parenthood actually left PP and went independent because PP wanted them to perform abortions and they wouldn’t do it. Despite what this organization claims, I truly believe they are first and foremost an abortion business.


That would be solved if, in line with the other thread on this forum, the US adopted universal government funded healthcare.

Then there wouldn’t be a problem with a private company trying to perform as many abortions as possible for profit would there? All abortions would be fully free, fully taxpayer funded and available in as many locations as possible?

But of course the GOP is almost as anti-healthcare as they are anti-abortion so no chance.


The problem would be solved?... PP already receives public funding more than 500 million in 2015.
Image
https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpoli ... ment-money
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13932
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:53 pm

Can't wait to see if someone sues HP over this.

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/ ... ortion-law

Hewlett Packard Enterprise told me that it’s “not taking a position on this legislation” but observed that its employee health plan covers abortions, allows members to go out of state for care and covers some lodging expenses if they do so.


The businesses are quiet on it , as they have heavy capital invested in the economy, but i wonder if growth plans will be stifled going forward?
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14749
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:43 pm

Planned parenthood, as the name suggests, helps having planned children. Educating girls and boys, yes, about contraception, something often badly done by parents or schools. Ideally there should never be an unplanned pregnancy to abort, yet here we are. What is the GOP doing about unplanned pregnancies ?

Tugger wrote:
It seems some business people still don't get the need to stay PUBLICLY neutral on hot-button issues like abortion.
https://kotaku.com/tripwire-ceo-steps-d ... 1847626560
John Gibson, the CEO of Tripwire Interactive—the studio behind Maneater and Killing Floor—has “stepped down.” This follows the enormous public and internal backlash over his support for Texas’ recent decision to strip women of a basic human right.
[...]
On September 5, Gibson tweeted:

Proud of #USSupremeCourt affirming the Texas law banning abortion for babies with a heartbeat. As an entertainer I don’t get political often. Yet with so many vocal peers on the other side of this issue, I felt it was important to go on the record as a pro-life game developer.


Yeah, ooops!

Tugg


Also the Supreme Court didn't say that.
 
apodino
Posts: 4092
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:11 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:23 pm

sierrakilo44 wrote:
apodino wrote:
There are a couple of people questioning my statement about quotas. I do believe they exist and I do believe the claims of many former PP workers on this. I will leave you guys with a link to this article from the San Francisco Examiner. Basically it says that a south Texas affiliate of Planned Parenthood actually left PP and went independent because PP wanted them to perform abortions and they wouldn’t do it. Despite what this organization claims, I truly believe they are first and foremost an abortion business.


That would be solved if, in line with the other thread on this forum, the US adopted universal government funded healthcare.

Then there wouldn’t be a problem with a private company trying to perform as many abortions as possible for profit would there? All abortions would be fully free, fully taxpayer funded and available in as many locations as possible?

But of course the GOP is almost as anti-healthcare as they are anti-abortion so no chance.


If you read my post on that thread you know that universal healthcare is a position I support. Interestingly enough Universal healthcare came up as a ballot initiative in Colorado a few years ago, a proposal that was endorsed by Bernie Sanders. Amendment 69 went down in flames, and one of the key groups that opposed it, was Planned Parenthood.

The issue with Abortion is many people on both the left and the right believe, as I do, that because Abortion takes the life of an unborn child, it always results in the death of a human being and that Unborn child should have the right to life. Many would argue its not a person until birth. I disagree with that. If someone came up with a way to terminate a pregnancy that did not result in the death of the unborn child, I would be all for it. We aren't there yet unfortunately, and until then, there will be no end to this debate.
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2895
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Texas abortion law

Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:26 pm

Simple solution would be for all those people claiming "Right of Life" to be held liable for the costs incurred after birth.
Show us you really care by adopting the child, instead of being a bunch of hypocrites.
 
User avatar
Tugger
Posts: 11480
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:38 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:31 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Simple solution would be for all those people claiming "Right of Life" to be held liable for the costs incurred after birth.
Show us you really care by adopting the child, instead of being a bunch of hypocrites.

You know I thought of that as an option, however I do not think it would not work. I want it to work. Just pay all expenses for a woman to have a baby. What could go wrong with that? But I think you would be accused still of forcing a woman to carry a baby they do not want and have freeloaders that "work the system" and still not solve the debate.

If you can tell me how your plan would work, 100%, I want to hear it.

Tugg
 
Dieuwer
Posts: 2895
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Texas abortion law

Wed Sep 08, 2021 9:47 pm

Are there any statistics related to the reasons for abortion? For example, 50% of the abortions are due to medical necessity, or 20% are related to rape.
 
wingman
Posts: 4171
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Texas abortion law

Wed Sep 08, 2021 10:41 pm

I'd guess at least 95% are unwanted and due to lack of contraception or education. Even then though, that's a woman's body and woman's choice. It's an incredible thing to allow a small group of white men with an average age of 65 dictate what women can choose to do, or not in this case, with something happening inside of them. Maybe it's a rallying cry but at least 30M women voted for Trump and he liked to choose what to do with womens' bodies too, so hard to say what'll rally the better half in 2022.
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