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DIRECTFLT
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VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:44 am

Harris to California on Wednesday to campaign for Newsom

https://apnews.com/article/california-b ... 358932d40f

Vice President Kamala Harris will visit California’s Bay Area next week to campaign for Gov. Gavin Newsom, who faces possible removal from office in a Sept. 14 recall election. “Well, I would say, first, I can confirm the president does still plan to go and campaign for Gov. Newsom in California,” White House press secretary Jen Psaki told reporters at her Aug. 25 briefing. “I don’t have a date for you at this point in time, but that is still, certainly, his plan.”

The Biggest challenger to Newsom is R Larry Elder. Gloria Romero, a Democrat who served as Majority Leader of the California Senate, has endorsed GOP candidate Larry Elder for Governor in the recall election.

Here's a video of her endorsement: https://youtu.be/b_Ppmxwf7iw

So, we'll see if the "Harris" effect is enough to keep Newsom in office...
Last edited by DIRECTFLT on Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
NIKV69
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsome

Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:48 am

She isn't going to make a difference one way or the other. I find it incredible that Elder is polling better than Faulconer.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsome

Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:25 am

NIKV69 wrote:
She isn't going to make a difference one way or the other. I find it incredible that Elder is polling better than Faulconer.


It makes zero sense. Elder is a terrible candidate - his views on women and immigrants don't register with California centrists or independents, especially women. Faulconer would have had a much better shot but doesn't have Elder's funding.
 
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seb146
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:23 am

Harris was a senator from California as well as being the Secretary Of State for California. She is known around the state. IIRC, she is well liked in California still. This is a yuge nothingburger the right wants to blow out of proportion. As they do with anything they can.
 
ltbewr
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:14 pm

seb146 wrote:
Harris was a senator from California as well as being the Secretary Of State for California. She is known around the state. IIRC, she is well liked in California still. This is a yuge nothingburger the right wants to blow out of proportion. As they do with anything they can.

I think it will be a very close win for Newsom to stay in office. There are many voters in CA who are angry with high taxes, an inability to deal with the serous homeless problem in the cities, dumb personal behavior as to Covid-19 restrictions, the immigration issues, the handling of the fires, that will hurt him and in parts motivated this recall/removal process. Elder and the many other 'Republicans' are radicals that many voters don't want. The Legislature is controlled by Democrats. I suspect there will be a lot of pressure on elections officials by Trump supporters and Republicans to 'get the vote right' against Newsom. VP Harris is highly disliked for a variety of reasons by Republicans and likely add little to the voter turnout for Newsom.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:38 pm

ltbewr wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Harris was a senator from California as well as being the Secretary Of State for California. She is known around the state. IIRC, she is well liked in California still. This is a yuge nothingburger the right wants to blow out of proportion. As they do with anything they can.

I think it will be a very close win for Newsom to stay in office. There are many voters in CA who are angry with high taxes, an inability to deal with the serous homeless problem in the cities, dumb personal behavior as to Covid-19 restrictions, the immigration issues, the handling of the fires, that will hurt him and in parts motivated this recall/removal process. Elder and the many other 'Republicans' are radicals that many voters don't want. The Legislature is controlled by Democrats. I suspect there will be a lot of pressure on elections officials by Trump supporters and Republicans to 'get the vote right' against Newsom. VP Harris is highly disliked for a variety of reasons by Republicans and likely add little to the voter turnout for Newsom.


Cal Fire has received huge budget increases the last few years under Newsom and many Californians have been really impressed with their improved firefighting strategies and cautionary information to communities in interface zones. Dumb personal behavior is largely happening in 'red' counties in the state, at least that's the impression most urban Californians have. Newsom's two biggest failings in my estimation are the French Laundry hypocrisy and the state's VERY slow rollout of unemployment benefits in 2020.

The homeless issue is very complex and goes way beyond what anyone in Sacramento is doing. Various issues with homelessness are based mostly on local strategies and their success or failure. San Jose just came up with an inventive solution to house relocate a large homeless encampment to an RV park, and immediately they are running into opposition from an apartment community that will be able to see it. If Californians want someone to blame for homeless issues, they can reflect on their own NIMBYism.
 
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seb146
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:25 pm

ltbewr wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Harris was a senator from California as well as being the Secretary Of State for California. She is known around the state. IIRC, she is well liked in California still. This is a yuge nothingburger the right wants to blow out of proportion. As they do with anything they can.

I think it will be a very close win for Newsom to stay in office. There are many voters in CA who are angry with high taxes, an inability to deal with the serous homeless problem in the cities, dumb personal behavior as to Covid-19 restrictions, the immigration issues, the handling of the fires, that will hurt him and in parts motivated this recall/removal process. Elder and the many other 'Republicans' are radicals that many voters don't want. The Legislature is controlled by Democrats. I suspect there will be a lot of pressure on elections officials by Trump supporters and Republicans to 'get the vote right' against Newsom. VP Harris is highly disliked for a variety of reasons by Republicans and likely add little to the voter turnout for Newsom.


I think it is interesting that Republicans insist elections were rigged and stolen if they lose, but not if they win. They will lose this one, again. There will be a few more Republicans elected to the Assembly next year and the State Senate but Democrats will still control Sacramento. And MAGA Republicans will whine and complain and sue because they think the election is rigged.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:46 pm

Might help to have a view of current projections, which seem to indicate Newsom will be able to stay in office:

Latest Polls Of The California Recall Election

Source: FiveThirtyEight

DIRECTFLT wrote:
So, we'll see if the "Harris" effect is enough to keep Newsom in office...


I find it hard to believe that a place like California all of a sudden decides to adopt conservatism because of Newsom's "French Laundry" antics (amongst other things that are being discussed in this thread), which in of itself should serve as a wake-up call to Dems to correspond their own actions to implementation of policies that impact the general public.

Even Texas liberalism isn't going to all of a sudden switch overnight.

IMO I don't think the VP will influence whether Newsom stays or not.
 
NIKV69
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:03 pm

seb146 wrote:
Harris was a senator from California as well as being the Secretary Of State for California. She is known around the state. IIRC, she is well liked in California still. This is a yuge nothingburger the right wants to blow out of proportion. As they do with anything they can.


Nothingburger? You see the polling. Newsom may pull this out but it should have never have been this close. He is a terrible elected official as is Kamala but California is getting fed up if you can't see that you are being blinded buy identity politics.
 
737307
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:43 pm

Don't take poll results at face value. People should know better.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Mon Sep 06, 2021 2:09 am

Aaron747 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Harris was a senator from California as well as being the Secretary Of State for California. She is known around the state. IIRC, she is well liked in California still. This is a yuge nothingburger the right wants to blow out of proportion. As they do with anything they can.

I think it will be a very close win for Newsom to stay in office. There are many voters in CA who are angry with high taxes, an inability to deal with the serous homeless problem in the cities, dumb personal behavior as to Covid-19 restrictions, the immigration issues, the handling of the fires, that will hurt him and in parts motivated this recall/removal process. Elder and the many other 'Republicans' are radicals that many voters don't want. The Legislature is controlled by Democrats. I suspect there will be a lot of pressure on elections officials by Trump supporters and Republicans to 'get the vote right' against Newsom. VP Harris is highly disliked for a variety of reasons by Republicans and likely add little to the voter turnout for Newsom.


Cal Fire has received huge budget increases the last few years under Newsom and many Californians have been really impressed with their improved firefighting strategies and cautionary information to communities in interface zones. Dumb personal behavior is largely happening in 'red' counties in the state, at least that's the impression most urban Californians have. Newsom's two biggest failings in my estimation are the French Laundry hypocrisy and the state's VERY slow rollout of unemployment benefits in 2020.

The homeless issue is very complex and goes way beyond what anyone in Sacramento is doing. Various issues with homelessness are based mostly on local strategies and their success or failure. San Jose just came up with an inventive solution to house relocate a large homeless encampment to an RV park, and immediately they are running into opposition from an apartment community that will be able to see it. If Californians want someone to blame for homeless issues, they can reflect on their own NIMBYism.


Disagree that homelessness in the USA or California is all that complex. If you tolerate homelessness in a desirable place, you will be mobbed with homeless people, tents, heroin, crack etc. The reason homelessness isn’t tolerated by civilized people is because they know that enabling dysfunctional people to ruin society’s best places is bad for everyone.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Mon Sep 06, 2021 3:13 am

LCDFlight wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
I think it will be a very close win for Newsom to stay in office. There are many voters in CA who are angry with high taxes, an inability to deal with the serous homeless problem in the cities, dumb personal behavior as to Covid-19 restrictions, the immigration issues, the handling of the fires, that will hurt him and in parts motivated this recall/removal process. Elder and the many other 'Republicans' are radicals that many voters don't want. The Legislature is controlled by Democrats. I suspect there will be a lot of pressure on elections officials by Trump supporters and Republicans to 'get the vote right' against Newsom. VP Harris is highly disliked for a variety of reasons by Republicans and likely add little to the voter turnout for Newsom.


Cal Fire has received huge budget increases the last few years under Newsom and many Californians have been really impressed with their improved firefighting strategies and cautionary information to communities in interface zones. Dumb personal behavior is largely happening in 'red' counties in the state, at least that's the impression most urban Californians have. Newsom's two biggest failings in my estimation are the French Laundry hypocrisy and the state's VERY slow rollout of unemployment benefits in 2020.

The homeless issue is very complex and goes way beyond what anyone in Sacramento is doing. Various issues with homelessness are based mostly on local strategies and their success or failure. San Jose just came up with an inventive solution to house relocate a large homeless encampment to an RV park, and immediately they are running into opposition from an apartment community that will be able to see it. If Californians want someone to blame for homeless issues, they can reflect on their own NIMBYism.


Disagree that homelessness in the USA or California is all that complex. If you tolerate homelessness in a desirable place, you will be mobbed with homeless people, tents, heroin, crack etc. The reason homelessness isn’t tolerated by civilized people is because they know that enabling dysfunctional people to ruin society’s best places is bad for everyone.


It's incredibly complex - sorry it's just total denial to say otherwise. There is nobody experienced with the issue who categorizes it as simple.

If there was a magic housing, law enforcement, or healthcare bullet for it, it would have been discovered somewhere in the US by now.
 
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seb146
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:31 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Harris was a senator from California as well as being the Secretary Of State for California. She is known around the state. IIRC, she is well liked in California still. This is a yuge nothingburger the right wants to blow out of proportion. As they do with anything they can.


Nothingburger? You see the polling. Newsom may pull this out but it should have never have been this close. He is a terrible elected official as is Kamala but California is getting fed up if you can't see that you are being blinded buy identity politics.


One of the biggest reasons Newsom is polling so bad among Republicans is "HE IS FORCING US TO WEAR MASKS AND TAKING OUR FREEDOM!!!" the same as in Oregon with Gov. Brown and Washington with Gov. Inslee. Republicans are told wearing masks, getting vaccinated, limiting crowds is stripping us all of our rights. Safety and security of the population. These same people are perfectly fine with voting rights being taken away and LGBTQ people not being able to show their flags.

No, Newsom is not that great. But, he is looking out for the health and safety of all Californians with his fact based covid guidelines. He has not taken anyone's freedoms. But, please, show us which ones were taken.
 
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seb146
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Mon Sep 06, 2021 6:35 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
I think it will be a very close win for Newsom to stay in office. There are many voters in CA who are angry with high taxes, an inability to deal with the serous homeless problem in the cities, dumb personal behavior as to Covid-19 restrictions, the immigration issues, the handling of the fires, that will hurt him and in parts motivated this recall/removal process. Elder and the many other 'Republicans' are radicals that many voters don't want. The Legislature is controlled by Democrats. I suspect there will be a lot of pressure on elections officials by Trump supporters and Republicans to 'get the vote right' against Newsom. VP Harris is highly disliked for a variety of reasons by Republicans and likely add little to the voter turnout for Newsom.


Cal Fire has received huge budget increases the last few years under Newsom and many Californians have been really impressed with their improved firefighting strategies and cautionary information to communities in interface zones. Dumb personal behavior is largely happening in 'red' counties in the state, at least that's the impression most urban Californians have. Newsom's two biggest failings in my estimation are the French Laundry hypocrisy and the state's VERY slow rollout of unemployment benefits in 2020.

The homeless issue is very complex and goes way beyond what anyone in Sacramento is doing. Various issues with homelessness are based mostly on local strategies and their success or failure. San Jose just came up with an inventive solution to house relocate a large homeless encampment to an RV park, and immediately they are running into opposition from an apartment community that will be able to see it. If Californians want someone to blame for homeless issues, they can reflect on their own NIMBYism.


Disagree that homelessness in the USA or California is all that complex. If you tolerate homelessness in a desirable place, you will be mobbed with homeless people, tents, heroin, crack etc. The reason homelessness isn’t tolerated by civilized people is because they know that enabling dysfunctional people to ruin society’s best places is bad for everyone.


Homelessness is more than just crack and heroin. People are homeless for many reasons. They have no family to turn to, their job was taken out, they have severe health issues, and, yes, addiction among so many other reasons. Believe it or not, homelessness has been a thing for decades. With property owners wanting more and more for rent, it just gets worse and worse.
 
LovePlanes74
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:31 pm

@seb146, agreed homelessness is indeed a complex issue and certainly not confined to just addicts
 
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Aesma
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:35 pm

ltbewr wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Harris was a senator from California as well as being the Secretary Of State for California. She is known around the state. IIRC, she is well liked in California still. This is a yuge nothingburger the right wants to blow out of proportion. As they do with anything they can.

I think it will be a very close win for Newsom to stay in office. There are many voters in CA who are angry with high taxes, an inability to deal with the serous homeless problem in the cities, dumb personal behavior as to Covid-19 restrictions, the immigration issues, the handling of the fires, that will hurt him and in parts motivated this recall/removal process. Elder and the many other 'Republicans' are radicals that many voters don't want. The Legislature is controlled by Democrats. I suspect there will be a lot of pressure on elections officials by Trump supporters and Republicans to 'get the vote right' against Newsom. VP Harris is highly disliked for a variety of reasons by Republicans and likely add little to the voter turnout for Newsom.


Aren't the voters you're talking about not Democrats, so people who didn't vote and would never vote for Newsom anyway ?

Newsom doesn't care about them, if Harris is coming it's obviously not to appeal to them either, but instead to motivate Democrats to go and vote...
 
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seb146
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Mon Sep 06, 2021 8:32 pm

Aesma wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Harris was a senator from California as well as being the Secretary Of State for California. She is known around the state. IIRC, she is well liked in California still. This is a yuge nothingburger the right wants to blow out of proportion. As they do with anything they can.

I think it will be a very close win for Newsom to stay in office. There are many voters in CA who are angry with high taxes, an inability to deal with the serous homeless problem in the cities, dumb personal behavior as to Covid-19 restrictions, the immigration issues, the handling of the fires, that will hurt him and in parts motivated this recall/removal process. Elder and the many other 'Republicans' are radicals that many voters don't want. The Legislature is controlled by Democrats. I suspect there will be a lot of pressure on elections officials by Trump supporters and Republicans to 'get the vote right' against Newsom. VP Harris is highly disliked for a variety of reasons by Republicans and likely add little to the voter turnout for Newsom.


Aren't the voters you're talking about not Democrats, so people who didn't vote and would never vote for Newsom anyway ?

Newsom doesn't care about them, if Harris is coming it's obviously not to appeal to them either, but instead to motivate Democrats to go and vote...


Yes, she will be speaking to Democratic voters but, also, to those voters not living inside the right wing echo chamber. Another thing happening is this recall will be held by mail with postage paid return envelopes sent to every registered California voter. Republicans will cry foul and whine and complain when Newsom is retained. Republicans will insist this proves voting by mail does not work.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:59 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Harris was a senator from California as well as being the Secretary Of State for California. She is known around the state. IIRC, she is well liked in California still. This is a yuge nothingburger the right wants to blow out of proportion. As they do with anything they can.


Nothingburger? You see the polling. Newsom may pull this out but it should have never have been this close. He is a terrible elected official as is Kamala but California is getting fed up if you can't see that you are being blinded buy identity politics.



Interesting —and obviously selective— use of the word 'may'. The lead for 'keep' is broad and growing steadily, probably thanks to that horror show in TX. Newsome will win this, but it will not be 'close'. What you are either not seeing or just trying to wish away is the fact that this election is both primary and general. Newsome's lead is 53:42, but would be closer to 85:15 if not for all the other democratic entrants. As some more of these fall away, the lead for 'keep' will more accurately reflect the state's overwhelming modern democratic majority.

As for Harris, she will not help that much, but she also will not hurt. She is generally favored out here, and the types that are put off by her presence would not vote for Newsome anyway. There is no damage to be done there.
 
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casinterest
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:43 am

Harris will be used to motivate the base and remind everyone that the GOP is behind a cultural war that aims to to restrict voting, reduce access to abortion and women's health, and attempt to minimize discussions of racism and history.

Expect to see a lot more of Harris now that the GOP has shown it's true face throughout the country.
 
NIKV69
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:18 am

seb146 wrote:
One of the biggest reasons Newsom is polling so bad among Republicans is "HE IS FORCING US TO WEAR MASKS AND TAKING OUR FREEDOM!!!" the same as in Oregon with Gov. Brown and Washington with Gov. Inslee. Republicans are told wearing masks, getting vaccinated, limiting crowds is stripping us all of our rights. Safety and security of the population. These same people are perfectly fine with voting rights being taken away and LGBTQ people not being able to show their flags.

No, Newsom is not that great. But, he is looking out for the health and safety of all Californians with his fact based covid guidelines. He has not taken anyone's freedoms. But, please, show us which ones were taken.


This recall has nothing to do with masks, maybe his covid hypocrisy hurt him but the economy and people fleeing the state is killing the state. You can't live in CA if you are middle class anymore and instead of trying to help he just kept the progressive push going so now you have the uber rich living in the mountains and the cities being overrun with defecating in the street homeless. You been to SF? Come on stop with the CNN talking points already and see this recall for what it is.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:31 am

NIKV69 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
One of the biggest reasons Newsom is polling so bad among Republicans is "HE IS FORCING US TO WEAR MASKS AND TAKING OUR FREEDOM!!!" the same as in Oregon with Gov. Brown and Washington with Gov. Inslee. Republicans are told wearing masks, getting vaccinated, limiting crowds is stripping us all of our rights. Safety and security of the population. These same people are perfectly fine with voting rights being taken away and LGBTQ people not being able to show their flags.

No, Newsom is not that great. But, he is looking out for the health and safety of all Californians with his fact based covid guidelines. He has not taken anyone's freedoms. But, please, show us which ones were taken.


This recall has nothing to do with masks, maybe his covid hypocrisy hurt him but the economy and people fleeing the state is killing the state. You can't live in CA if you are middle class anymore and instead of trying to help he just kept the progressive push going so now you have the uber rich living in the mountains and the cities being overrun with defecating in the street homeless. You been to SF? Come on stop with the CNN talking points already and see this recall for what it is.


These claims are OTT hyperbole driven by right wing media misinformation. For example with homelessness: there are 101 cities and towns in the SF Bay Area but right wing media will have you believe they are ALL overrun like four blocks of SF’s Tenderloin. There are 19 million people in metro LA/OCo...are we to believe everyone there can see a meth-fueled tent city out their window? If that’s so why are home values in both places still explosive?

Yes, lower middle class residents have left the state, but they are replaced by educated people with skills in demand. ‘Exodus’ is only accurate if describing people who make under $65K. Right wing media makes it sound across the board because a handful of companies and investors have fled for more tax friendly environs.

Let’s see what’s happening with startups - surely nobody wants to open new ventures in a place they’ll have to pay high salaries and taxes, right? Oh no, what?

Telstra Ventures focused on the startups themselves, taking a look at about 35,000 venture-backed companies in 25 emerging tech hubs around the country plus established ones in the Bay Area and New York City. About 15,000 of the companies are in the Bay Area.

https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/new ... tayed.html
 
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Aesma
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:40 pm

The GDP of California is $2.72 trillion, highest in the nation, same as my country, France, but with 30 million less people to get there. Horrible economy indeed.
 
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mbmbos
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:06 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Newsom may pull this out but it should have never have been this close. He is a terrible elected official as is Kamala but California is getting fed up if you can't see that you are being blinded buy identity politics.


It's interesting you refer to a male politician by their last name but a female politician by their first.

Why is that?
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:09 pm

VP Harris won't add votes, but probably depress votes. She is highly unpopular even on her own state of California, where she dropped out of the Presidential nomination race there before any votes would be cast.

As for the recall race. Why can't we all celebrate the FACT that Larry Elder *MIGHT* become the first African American Governor of California. Aren't we supposed to celebrate this anymore?
 
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casinterest
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:21 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
VP Harris won't add votes, but probably depress votes. She is highly unpopular even on her own state of California, where she dropped out of the Presidential nomination race there before any votes would be cast.

As for the recall race. Why can't we all celebrate the FACT that Larry Elder *MIGHT* become the first African American Governor of California. Aren't we supposed to celebrate this anymore?


It would be worth celebrating if Larry Elder was a worthwhile candidate.

https://news.yahoo.com/larry-elder-argu ... 01872.html

Elder, however, argued that enslaved individuals were legally deemed “property” at the time. He noted that slave owners and their estates are owed compensation for the human property they lost following the end of the Civil War and the passage of the 13th amendment which partially abolished slavery after 1865.


“When people talk about reparations, do they really want to have that conversation? Like it or not, slavery was legal,” Elder said. “Their legal property was taken away from them after the Civil War, so you could make an argument that the people that are owed reparations are not only just Black people but also the people whose ‘property’ was taken away after the end of the Civil War.”


been in the news recently following accusations made by ex-fiancé Alexandra Datig who claimed Elder verbally and emotionally abused her.

In August, Datig told Politico about an alleged incident in 2015 where Elder took a .45 pistol out of a bedroom nightstand in an act of “silent scorn” and “anger” while the two were arguing.
 
apodino
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:59 pm

I have a lot of friends who are liberals, many are people of color and there is very little love among them for Kamala Harris. I even think Biden himself is regretting selecting her after seeing her in office. The presence of her on the campaign train in California will have absolutely no impact on the results of that race.

There isn't a lot of love on the left for Gavin Newsom either. I think Ana Kasparian at the Young Turks even said she signed the recall petition (she is from the Bernie wing). IMO, the reason he is likely to survive the recall effort isn't because he is doing a good job as governor (He isn't) but it's because based on Polling, if he were recalled Larry Elder would likely become governor. There are a lot of reasons not to like Larry Elder, and he would only get 29 percent of the vote. The reason he would get the most support is because the registered republicans who are actually left in California are very conservative and probably listen to talk shows like Elder's on the radio. Although this would fire up conservatives across the country, Elder is not a governor who actually fits the population of California. If republicans want a Governor who would actually work in California, they would need to find someone in the mold of a couple of Northeast governors, Charlie Baker and Larry Hogan. Elder is more in the mold of Kristi Noem, and that is why he doesnt work for CA and furthermore, he is the reason Newsom is going to survive this.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:39 pm

apodino wrote:
I have a lot of friends who are liberals, many are people of color and there is very little love among them for Kamala Harris. I even think Biden himself is regretting selecting her after seeing her in office. The presence of her on the campaign train in California will have absolutely no impact on the results of that race.

There isn't a lot of love on the left for Gavin Newsom either. I think Ana Kasparian at the Young Turks even said she signed the recall petition (she is from the Bernie wing). IMO, the reason he is likely to survive the recall effort isn't because he is doing a good job as governor (He isn't) but it's because based on Polling, if he were recalled Larry Elder would likely become governor. There are a lot of reasons not to like Larry Elder, and he would only get 29 percent of the vote. The reason he would get the most support is because the registered republicans who are actually left in California are very conservative and probably listen to talk shows like Elder's on the radio. Although this would fire up conservatives across the country, Elder is not a governor who actually fits the population of California. If republicans want a Governor who would actually work in California, they would need to find someone in the mold of a couple of Northeast governors, Charlie Baker and Larry Hogan. Elder is more in the mold of Kristi Noem, and that is why he doesnt work for CA and furthermore, he is the reason Newsom is going to survive this.


Spot on - your finger is very much on the pulse of this state.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1423
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:00 am

apodino wrote:
I have a lot of friends who are liberals, many are people of color and there is very little love among them for Kamala Harris. I even think Biden himself is regretting selecting her after seeing her in office. The presence of her on the campaign train in California will have absolutely no impact on the results of that race.

There isn't a lot of love on the left for Gavin Newsom either. I think Ana Kasparian at the Young Turks even said she signed the recall petition (she is from the Bernie wing). IMO, the reason he is likely to survive the recall effort isn't because he is doing a good job as governor (He isn't) but it's because based on Polling, if he were recalled Larry Elder would likely become governor. There are a lot of reasons not to like Larry Elder, and he would only get 29 percent of the vote. The reason he would get the most support is because the registered republicans who are actually left in California are very conservative and probably listen to talk shows like Elder's on the radio. Although this would fire up conservatives across the country, Elder is not a governor who actually fits the population of California. If republicans want a Governor who would actually work in California, they would need to find someone in the mold of a couple of Northeast governors, Charlie Baker and Larry Hogan. Elder is more in the mold of Kristi Noem, and that is why he doesnt work for CA and furthermore, he is the reason Newsom is going to survive this.


The bottom line question is, what do Californians have left to lose? An election will eventually come up and Elder might lose. So why don't you give this guy a chance and see what he does. California has serious issues and problems, not everyone is happy with how things are going over there, a change in leadership for at least some time to see if there is any change might do some good. That's the rationale some on the center might have.

Elder might not be the most popular politician in CA, but at least he looks like he is fighting and interested on the job, not taking it for granted because he has a D next to his name.

I am really looking forward to Elder winning, but I can't get my hopes up, Newsom has huge funding and support from public sector unions (what a conflict of interest, the people you are boss to, are funding you)

BTW, where is Dianne Feinstein? it seems that her seat may be at play and Elder might just change the power in Washington if he wins, making Biden lame duck effectively. Lets see!
 
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Aaron747
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:15 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
apodino wrote:
I have a lot of friends who are liberals, many are people of color and there is very little love among them for Kamala Harris. I even think Biden himself is regretting selecting her after seeing her in office. The presence of her on the campaign train in California will have absolutely no impact on the results of that race.

There isn't a lot of love on the left for Gavin Newsom either. I think Ana Kasparian at the Young Turks even said she signed the recall petition (she is from the Bernie wing). IMO, the reason he is likely to survive the recall effort isn't because he is doing a good job as governor (He isn't) but it's because based on Polling, if he were recalled Larry Elder would likely become governor. There are a lot of reasons not to like Larry Elder, and he would only get 29 percent of the vote. The reason he would get the most support is because the registered republicans who are actually left in California are very conservative and probably listen to talk shows like Elder's on the radio. Although this would fire up conservatives across the country, Elder is not a governor who actually fits the population of California. If republicans want a Governor who would actually work in California, they would need to find someone in the mold of a couple of Northeast governors, Charlie Baker and Larry Hogan. Elder is more in the mold of Kristi Noem, and that is why he doesnt work for CA and furthermore, he is the reason Newsom is going to survive this.


The bottom line question is, what do Californians have left to lose? An election will eventually come up and Elder might lose. So why don't you give this guy a chance and see what he does. California has serious issues and problems, not everyone is happy with how things are going over there, a change in leadership for at least some time to see if there is any change might do some good. That's the rationale some on the center might have.

Elder might not be the most popular politician in CA, but at least he looks like he is fighting and interested on the job, not taking it for granted because he has a D next to his name.

I am really looking forward to Elder winning, but I can't get my hopes up, Newsom has huge funding and support from public sector unions (what a conflict of interest, the people you are boss to, are funding you)

BTW, where is Dianne Feinstein? it seems that her seat may be at play and Elder might just change the power in Washington if he wins, making Biden lame duck effectively. Lets see!


Elder is out of step with the values of the center in CA, plain and simple. He has some points on failures to deliver state services, but so do the other candidates. Faulconer would be much more in tune with what we are looking for - a leader with a successful track record in a major CA city, and who talks economic policy without denigrating women and immigrants like Elder.
 
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stl07
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:44 am

I would have supported recall if the frontrunner wasn't Elder. Newsom is a screw-up, heck my local park is now a tent city and the schools and colleges just reopened this week after over a year (meaning students in other states, R and D, are a year smarter than here in CA) but Elder is on a psychedelic.
 
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seb146
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:59 am

stl07 wrote:
I would have supported recall if the frontrunner wasn't Elder. Newsom is a screw-up, heck my local park is now a tent city and the schools and colleges just reopened this week after over a year (meaning students in other states, R and D, are a year smarter than here in CA) but Elder is on a psychedelic.


People are homeless because of the housing market, property owners knowing they can get far more than spaces are worth; not much Gov. Newsom can do about that. Schools open when it is safe for students. There are some districts that are closed, like around right wing Lake Tahoe.

California should do what Oregon did with our schools and just get rid of graduation requirements so the rural areas don't have to compete with the urban and suburban areas.
 
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stl07
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:32 am

seb146 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
I would have supported recall if the frontrunner wasn't Elder. Newsom is a screw-up, heck my local park is now a tent city and the schools and colleges just reopened this week after over a year (meaning students in other states, R and D, are a year smarter than here in CA) but Elder is on a psychedelic.


People are homeless because of the housing market, property owners knowing they can get far more than spaces are worth; not much Gov. Newsom can do about that. Schools open when it is safe for students. There are some districts that are closed, like around right wing Lake Tahoe.

California should do what Oregon did with our schools and just get rid of graduation requirements so the rural areas don't have to compete with the urban and suburban areas.


While I will say you have a fair point on the housing market, you are not correct about the schools. The schools specifically made plans to be able to open all of last year and spent lots and lots of money on tests, outdoor classrooms, and other facilities, only to be given a 180 by Newsom during his tier reopening plan and told no despite having health code approved and reopening plans that followed CDC reopening guidelines. This was not a local school board or individual college deciding what was safe for the community. Sure, some schools, even in conservative areas, may freely choose to stay closed, but this was an executive decision and an abuse of power by the governor. Unless you are a student/parent, you will not be able to understand how much of a toll an entire year and a half of online education and isolation is, especially when safe reopening plans were made that other states followed and had no issues. Even in red MO, St. Louis University had fully in person classes and full capacity dorm life, and yet because they followed the CDC rules, they had no covid issues.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 12:58 pm

seb146 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
I would have supported recall if the frontrunner wasn't Elder. Newsom is a screw-up, heck my local park is now a tent city and the schools and colleges just reopened this week after over a year (meaning students in other states, R and D, are a year smarter than here in CA) but Elder is on a psychedelic.


People are homeless because of the housing market, property owners knowing they can get far more than spaces are worth; not much Gov. Newsom can do about that. Schools open when it is safe for students. There are some districts that are closed, like around right wing Lake Tahoe.

California should do what Oregon did with our schools and just get rid of graduation requirements so the rural areas don't have to compete with the urban and suburban areas.


While the cost of housing, particularly in CA, is high, I would like to see your evidence that it is a significant cause of the homeless problem. Especially since there has been an eviction moratorium for over a year and a half.
 
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seb146
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 2:22 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
I would have supported recall if the frontrunner wasn't Elder. Newsom is a screw-up, heck my local park is now a tent city and the schools and colleges just reopened this week after over a year (meaning students in other states, R and D, are a year smarter than here in CA) but Elder is on a psychedelic.


People are homeless because of the housing market, property owners knowing they can get far more than spaces are worth; not much Gov. Newsom can do about that. Schools open when it is safe for students. There are some districts that are closed, like around right wing Lake Tahoe.

California should do what Oregon did with our schools and just get rid of graduation requirements so the rural areas don't have to compete with the urban and suburban areas.


While the cost of housing, particularly in CA, is high, I would like to see your evidence that it is a significant cause of the homeless problem. Especially since there has been an eviction moratorium for over a year and a half.


And those high paying jobs that supposedly kept people barely hanging on are now gone. Again: homelessness is more than one thing.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14567
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:32 pm

stl07 wrote:
I would have supported recall if the frontrunner wasn't Elder. Newsom is a screw-up, heck my local park is now a tent city and the schools and colleges just reopened this week after over a year (meaning students in other states, R and D, are a year smarter than here in CA) but Elder is on a psychedelic.


I thought the stars were aligning for Faulconer but wow has Elder blown everything up. Shame that the closest we have come to getting rid of one of the worst elected officials in our life time is being torpedoed by a Radio guy.

bpatus297 wrote:

While the cost of housing, particularly in CA, is high, I would like to see your evidence that it is a significant cause of the homeless problem. Especially since there has been an eviction moratorium for over a year and a half.


I would too, it's getting old blaming the rich and people who are assumed just to be rich because they are land owners or land lords.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 329
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:34 pm

seb146 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

People are homeless because of the housing market, property owners knowing they can get far more than spaces are worth; not much Gov. Newsom can do about that. Schools open when it is safe for students. There are some districts that are closed, like around right wing Lake Tahoe.

California should do what Oregon did with our schools and just get rid of graduation requirements so the rural areas don't have to compete with the urban and suburban areas.


While the cost of housing, particularly in CA, is high, I would like to see your evidence that it is a significant cause of the homeless problem. Especially since there has been an eviction moratorium for over a year and a half.


And those high paying jobs that supposedly kept people barely hanging on are now gone. Again: homelessness is more than one thing.


So do you or don't you have evidence of your claim?
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 16540
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:41 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
I would have supported recall if the frontrunner wasn't Elder. Newsom is a screw-up, heck my local park is now a tent city and the schools and colleges just reopened this week after over a year (meaning students in other states, R and D, are a year smarter than here in CA) but Elder is on a psychedelic.


People are homeless because of the housing market, property owners knowing they can get far more than spaces are worth; not much Gov. Newsom can do about that. Schools open when it is safe for students. There are some districts that are closed, like around right wing Lake Tahoe.

California should do what Oregon did with our schools and just get rid of graduation requirements so the rural areas don't have to compete with the urban and suburban areas.


While the cost of housing, particularly in CA, is high, I would like to see your evidence that it is a significant cause of the homeless problem. Especially since there has been an eviction moratorium for over a year and a half.


Way more complex than one or two variables. It's a multivariate issue. California is at the intersection of social ills, good environment, and ironclad capitalism - this stuff takes on a life of its own. SF's Tenderloin has been a homeless hotspot since Vietnam, and LA's Skid Row has had a large homeless presence since the 1930s.
 
bpatus297
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:51 am

Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:47 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

People are homeless because of the housing market, property owners knowing they can get far more than spaces are worth; not much Gov. Newsom can do about that. Schools open when it is safe for students. There are some districts that are closed, like around right wing Lake Tahoe.

California should do what Oregon did with our schools and just get rid of graduation requirements so the rural areas don't have to compete with the urban and suburban areas.


While the cost of housing, particularly in CA, is high, I would like to see your evidence that it is a significant cause of the homeless problem. Especially since there has been an eviction moratorium for over a year and a half.


Way more complex than one or two variables. It's a multivariate issue. California is at the intersection of social ills, good environment, and ironclad capitalism - this stuff takes on a life of its own.


I doubt that any significant portion of the homeless in CA are because of the housing prices. I would venture a guess that the people who's only problem is the cost of housing, and not addiction or mental illness, have moved or found other ways to get a roof over their head.

I have had more than my fair share of encounters with homeless. The vast majority of them are either addicts or mentally ill. I have met an occasional "F the world" types that just hate modern society, and a few that are living out of a car or similar while between apartments etc. But they are far and away in the super small minority, And most of the living in the car types due to bad circumstances only tend to only stay that way for a very short period of time.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:51 pm

bpatus297 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
bpatus297 wrote:

While the cost of housing, particularly in CA, is high, I would like to see your evidence that it is a significant cause of the homeless problem. Especially since there has been an eviction moratorium for over a year and a half.


Way more complex than one or two variables. It's a multivariate issue. California is at the intersection of social ills, good environment, and ironclad capitalism - this stuff takes on a life of its own.


I doubt that any significant portion of the homeless in CA are because of the housing prices. I would venture a guess that the people who's only problem is the cost of housing, and not addiction or mental illness, have moved or found other ways to get a roof over their head.


Evictions and job loss are leading causes of temporary homelessness in CA, and yes, long term homelessness is often due to mental illness and addiction. For awhile there was a well known homeless encampment in San Diego of evictees with families and they had their own little community support network while people got on their feet.
 
Newark727
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:57 pm

Now's a good time to mention that Larry Elder endorsed a minimum wage of $0.00. I'm sure that would be great for keeping people in their homes.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-go ... 31758.html
 
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Aaron747
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:58 pm

Newark727 wrote:
Now's a good time to mention that Larry Elder endorsed a minimum wage of $0.00. I'm sure that would be great for keeping people in their homes.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-go ... 31758.html


Wow, it's like he suddenly decided he wants to tank and lose.
 
AirWorthy99
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 5:30 pm

Newark727 wrote:
Now's a good time to mention that Larry Elder endorsed a minimum wage of $0.00. I'm sure that would be great for keeping people in their homes.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-go ... 31758.html


Absolutely nothing controversial about that. In fact, Nobel prize winner in economics Professor Milton Friedman always proposed this, and many conservatives have supported this for decades.

Thomas Sowell another conservative believes the same. Turns out you will greatly reduce unemployment and increase participation of young minorities that otherwise spend their time on the street, often getting involved in crime. For many young minorities in this country their minimum wage is 0, because they can't find a job or get hired, due to the stupid minimum wage laws in the US.
 
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casinterest
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:04 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Now's a good time to mention that Larry Elder endorsed a minimum wage of $0.00. I'm sure that would be great for keeping people in their homes.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-go ... 31758.html


Absolutely nothing controversial about that. In fact, Nobel prize winner in economics Professor Milton Friedman always proposed this, and many conservatives have supported this for decades.

Thomas Sowell another conservative believes the same. Turns out you will greatly reduce unemployment and increase participation of young minorities that otherwise spend their time on the street, often getting involved in crime. For many young minorities in this country their minimum wage is 0, because they can't find a job or get hired, due to the stupid minimum wage laws in the US.



So These conservatives are trying to bring back slavery? That is what 0.00 means.
 
Newark727
Posts: 2613
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:40 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Now's a good time to mention that Larry Elder endorsed a minimum wage of $0.00. I'm sure that would be great for keeping people in their homes.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-go ... 31758.html


Absolutely nothing controversial about that. In fact, Nobel prize winner in economics Professor Milton Friedman always proposed this, and many conservatives have supported this for decades.

Thomas Sowell another conservative believes the same. Turns out you will greatly reduce unemployment and increase participation of young minorities that otherwise spend their time on the street, often getting involved in crime. For many young minorities in this country their minimum wage is 0, because they can't find a job or get hired, due to the stupid minimum wage laws in the US.


Crank supports other crank; film at 11. Ditch the minimum wage, and you're not increasing employment, you're increasing underemployment. The costs of living that employers don't pay just get foisted on the taxpayer in the form of more people needing food stamps and other forms of assistance to not starve or lose their homes - assistance which Elder brilliantly doesn't support either! The fact that this pattern is already taking place with the minimum wages we currently have suggests the minimum wage needs to go up, not down. There's a reason that the Larry Elders and Thomas Sowells of the world never seem to win much support from the people who actually work minimum wage jobs.
 
LOT767301ER
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:14 am

Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 7:59 pm

casinterest wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Newark727 wrote:
Now's a good time to mention that Larry Elder endorsed a minimum wage of $0.00. I'm sure that would be great for keeping people in their homes.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-go ... 31758.html


Absolutely nothing controversial about that. In fact, Nobel prize winner in economics Professor Milton Friedman always proposed this, and many conservatives have supported this for decades.

Thomas Sowell another conservative believes the same. Turns out you will greatly reduce unemployment and increase participation of young minorities that otherwise spend their time on the street, often getting involved in crime. For many young minorities in this country their minimum wage is 0, because they can't find a job or get hired, due to the stupid minimum wage laws in the US.



So These conservatives are trying to bring back slavery? That is what 0.00 means.


So you're saying that Italy, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland, Cyprus etc. are slave countries?
 
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Tugger
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Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:01 pm

And of course Milton Friedman also favored open, free immigration to go along with his other theories. (And illegal immigration if one didn't follow his theories).

Tugg
 
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casinterest
Posts: 14172
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:04 pm

LOT767301ER wrote:
casinterest wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:

Absolutely nothing controversial about that. In fact, Nobel prize winner in economics Professor Milton Friedman always proposed this, and many conservatives have supported this for decades.

Thomas Sowell another conservative believes the same. Turns out you will greatly reduce unemployment and increase participation of young minorities that otherwise spend their time on the street, often getting involved in crime. For many young minorities in this country their minimum wage is 0, because they can't find a job or get hired, due to the stupid minimum wage laws in the US.



So These conservatives are trying to bring back slavery? That is what 0.00 means.


So you're saying that Italy, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland, Cyprus etc. are slave countries?


Yes they would be ,except they have workers rights, and standard of living requirements from the government that take the place .

In the US, Right to work, there is no such safety net.
 
LOT767301ER
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:14 am

Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:21 pm

casinterest wrote:
LOT767301ER wrote:
casinterest wrote:


So These conservatives are trying to bring back slavery? That is what 0.00 means.


So you're saying that Italy, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland, Cyprus etc. are slave countries?


Yes they would be ,except they have workers rights, and standard of living requirements from the government that take the place .

In the US, Right to work, there is no such safety net.


The standard of living in the US any way you measure it whether it be HDI, PPP per capita or a number of factors intertwined is worse in some of the places I just mentioned than in the US. How do you reconcile that a country like Italy or Austria has a lower HDI number than the US, a metric that focuses not only on the economic factors but also on education and healthcare? Your titanic of an argument is sinking quickly.

You also seem sour that you can actually fire incompetent or not needed labor in the US or....?
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 14172
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:23 pm

LOT767301ER wrote:
casinterest wrote:
LOT767301ER wrote:

So you're saying that Italy, Sweden, Finland, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, Austria, Switzerland, Cyprus etc. are slave countries?


Yes they would be ,except they have workers rights, and standard of living requirements from the government that take the place .

In the US, Right to work, there is no such safety net.


The standard of living in the US any way you measure it whether it be HDI, PPP per capita or a number of factors intertwined is worse in some of the places I just mentioned than in the US. How do you reconcile that a country like Italy or Austria has a lower HDI number than the US, a metric that focuses not only on the economic factors but also on education and healthcare? Your titanic of an argument is sinking quickly.

You also seem sour that you can actually fire incompetent or not needed labor in the US or....?



I think you aren't representing my argument at all, but only gaslighting your own views unrelated to minimum wage arguments.
 
LOT767301ER
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:14 am

Re: VP Harris to California to campaign for Gavin Newsom

Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:45 pm

casinterest wrote:
LOT767301ER wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Yes they would be ,except they have workers rights, and standard of living requirements from the government that take the place .

In the US, Right to work, there is no such safety net.


The standard of living in the US any way you measure it whether it be HDI, PPP per capita or a number of factors intertwined is worse in some of the places I just mentioned than in the US. How do you reconcile that a country like Italy or Austria has a lower HDI number than the US, a metric that focuses not only on the economic factors but also on education and healthcare? Your titanic of an argument is sinking quickly.

You also seem sour that you can actually fire incompetent or not needed labor in the US or....?



I think you aren't representing my argument at all, but only gaslighting your own views unrelated to minimum wage arguments.


What is your view? That we should have a higher minimum wage and a bigger safety net? Why? France, Japan, Canada, South Korea, Spain and even the UK deploy the same or lower HDI than the US and all of them subscribe to that theory. That tells me that the non-economic factors are not better and the economic metric in the US crushes those countries.

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