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Aaron747
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The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:22 am

There are many pieces coming out this week on how analysts see the global terror landscape on the eve of America's significant commemoration. It's important to ask where we stand 20 years on with much treasure spent, blood spilled, and effort exerted. The consensus seems to be that the war on terror has yielded a mixed bag of results at best, and has indirectly expanded the reach of terror groups and given them new recruiting inspiration at worst. For Americans the prime threat concern was domestic, and that has been largely addressed via counterterror ops overseas and massively increased monitoring and disruption of communications.

In this analysis from the Wilson Center, one of the main concerns going forward is that conditions in countries conducive to producing active terror groups have basically not changed.

Twenty years after the 9/11 attacks, the global jihadist movement has more fighters in more countries than ever before..

...Salafi-jihadi groups globally have proven to be resilient since the Global War on Terrorism began in 2001. All groups have been able to recover from key leadership losses. They have increasingly embedded in local conflicts, which has required them to respond to shifting dynamics within insurgencies. This adaptation as well as the targeting of externally oriented terror cells by the United States and its partners has degraded the components of groups focused on the global jihad.

Salafi-jihadi groups have achieved some of their objectives despite pulling back from the far war. They have retained the ability to reconstitute even in theaters where counterterrorism campaigns have weakened them. Groups have held together because the political and socioeconomic conditions that originally drove recruitment remain in place. Moreover, they have capitalized on popular grievances and local instability worsened by the coronavirus pandemic.


https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/al ... -after-911

One example of this is that Al Qaeda has maintained a foothold in the Arabian peninsula thanks to the Yemen civil war:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/al-qaeda-2 ... threat-us/

Research on public opinion in the US now compared to the years just after 9/11 shows there is basically no further appetite for foreign interventions due to how Afghanistan and Iraq campaigns went.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/20 ... y-of-9-11/

Most interestingly, surveys say Americans want terrorism to continue to be a high priority for the US government, but they no longer see it as among significant problems of national focus.

Image

Image source: Pew Research

On the one hand this suggests the US government has been very effective at keeping the domestic population safe. On the other, it indicates a sense of complacency in the public may urge politicians to deprioritize prevention.

Where do we go from here? What do you think the next 20 years brings on this front?
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:36 am

Don't want to rile anyone up here, but I think security-wise, US aviation has somewhat lost its glamour from the post-911 security improvements. Take a look at all the bad behavior we get around us all the time. I seriously hope that someone (not specifically saying who or what) doesn't use that as an opportunity to ensue another tragedy... :banghead:

As for how I think we'll be in 20 years, we may end up back at square one because of the declining behavior of passengers. Maybe this time it could be internal (own citizens) rather than external forces. :crying:

Just my 2 cents though. Anyone else can elaborate/disagree with me.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:41 am

Boeing757100 wrote:
Don't want to rile anyone up here, but I think security-wise, US aviation has somewhat lost its glamour from the post-911 security improvements. Take a look at all the bad behavior we get around us all the time. I seriously hope that someone (not specifically saying who or what) doesn't use that as an opportunity to ensue another tragedy... :banghead:

As for how I think we'll be in 20 years, we may end up back at square one because of the declining behavior of passengers. Maybe this time it could be internal (own citizens) rather than external forces. :crying:

Just my 2 cents though. Anyone else can elaborate/disagree with me.


Are you suggesting someone so PO'd by their experience with airline policy/airport security will become a domestic terrorist? Have not considered that but it's certainly possible..
 
Newark727
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Sat Sep 11, 2021 1:48 am

In hindsight, I think there was something fundamentally absurd about the War on Terrorism, as a concept. I mean, no matter how it goes, Terrorism is never going to sign a surrender on the deck of the U.S.S. Missouri. It's hard to imagine any universe where an event as horrific as 9/11 goes without any military response, but perhaps we'd have been better served with a narrower set of objectives, things that could be accomplished beyond reasonable doubt by a non-open-ended use of military force. The Bush administration deserves some blame for listening to the ideological visions of the neoconservatives; they were a mere indulgence afforded by the illusion of U.S. preeminence after the fall of the Berlin wall, an illusion that was never going to last. But to leave it there is obviously incorrect - the American voting public gave our leadership a blank check in the name of safety, then lost interest when the longer-term consequences of our adventurism started coming due. Really, our whole political class shares some of the blame, for telling voters what they wanted to hear, and indulging in this whole "United States of Fighting Terrorism" paradigm for too long and with too little real introspection.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:00 am

Newark727 wrote:
In hindsight, I think there was something fundamentally absurd about the War on Terrorism, as a concept. I mean, no matter how it goes, Terrorism is never going to sign a surrender on the deck of the U.S.S. Missouri. It's hard to imagine any universe where an event as horrific as 9/11 goes without any military response, but perhaps we'd have been better served with a narrower set of objectives, things that could be accomplished beyond reasonable doubt by a non-open-ended use of military force. The Bush administration deserves some blame for listening to the ideological visions of the neoconservatives; they were a mere indulgence afforded by the illusion of U.S. preeminence after the fall of the Berlin wall, an illusion that was never going to last. But to leave it there is obviously incorrect - the American voting public gave our leadership a blank check in the name of safety, then lost interest when the longer-term consequences of our adventurism started coming due. Really, our whole political class shares some of the blame, for telling voters what they wanted to hear, and indulging in this whole "United States of Fighting Terrorism" paradigm for too long and with too little real introspection.


David French had an interesting take on that theme today: "We faced a challenge dangerous enough to command our attention, not existential enough to unite us, and complicated enough to defy easy, obvious answers."

https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status ... 59169?s=20
 
Newark727
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:58 am

The other thing that strikes me is that for all the loftiness of the goal of ending terrorism, the legacy of the post-9/11 world may well be profound cynicism. It feels like nothing anyone has done since has lived up to its own justifications, when they're even offered. The Bush administration promised the world justice, then started torturing prisoners in indefinite detention while fast-talking us into Iraq. The mission into Afghanistan to oust the Taliban depended on Pakistan's support - the Taliban that they were backing the entire time, for their own, equally short-sighted reasons. The world's fear of the jihadis was a huge gift for the Middle East's decrepit autocracies; they offered their citizens nothing but stale 1960s pan-Arabism and anti-Semitic conspiracies for decades, but we were all too happy to see them remain in power when ISIS and friends were the alternatives. One of the countries that aided 9/11, we invaded - but the other, we sold billions of dollars in weapons to, and the Sauds' own personal quagmire in Yemen is now a terrorist breeding ground of its own.

I said the American people were somewhat to blame in my first post, but in the face of this naked opportunism, it's rather unsurprising that we lost faith. And the world met cynicism with cynicism - China used Islamist terrorism a a paper-thin justification for an ethnic cleansing campaign, while Russia went on a blatant 19th-century land grab while bombing humanitarian aid convoys in Syria. It reminds me a little of the end of World War I - in their zeal to make all the wasted effort and lives mean something, the belligerents showed just how hollow the causes they fought for were in the first place, and the result was an entire generation disillusioned.
 
jetwet1
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:40 am

The one glaring issue to me is, we (The US and allies) did a great job of killing Joe terrorist, but never seemed to get around to the people that financed Joe and his pals.

If some middle eastern money men suddenly started dropping dead from the odd stray bullet we could have come close to the same results we have now, for a lot less money and lives lost
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Sat Sep 11, 2021 5:03 am

Boeing757100 wrote:
Don't want to rile anyone up here, but I think security-wise, US aviation has somewhat lost its glamour from the post-911 security improvements. Take a look at all the bad behavior we get around us all the time. I seriously hope that someone (not specifically saying who or what) doesn't use that as an opportunity to ensue another tragedy... :banghead:

As for how I think we'll be in 20 years, we may end up back at square one because of the declining behavior of passengers. Maybe this time it could be internal (own citizens) rather than external forces. :crying:

Just my 2 cents though. Anyone else can elaborate/disagree with me.

The US government is pretty inept at a lot of things, but finding and subduing terrorists isn't one of them post 9/11.y ex gf took an aviation security class as part of her criminal justice undergrad studies. She said that it is impossible to know how many, if any, terror attacks TSA has actually stopped. You will never be able to know at least up until the typing of this message because they either stop people with the guns, knives, etc... going through security whether or not they have malicious intent or not and nothing has happened since 9/11 so there's argument both for and against the effectiveness for TSA. But all it takes is one 9/11 documentary to be watched by a voting citizen age 25 years or older to keep TSA in place because I'm 28 and we all saw it on TV. Yeah flying is less fun and security can be a pain in the butt, but at the end of the day an extra layer of safety and security isn't a bad thing.

Plus terror attacks are a lot more organized and have a good level of support from backers, case in point, again, 9/11. That kind of build up will definitely cause alarm bells to go off on the FBI, CIA, etc... and it will be taken care of by anything ranging from an FBI raid to a tomahawk missile strike. Some angry guy flipping on an airplane for wearing a mask isn't going to cause an all out act of terrorism, those 25+ year old 9/11 TV witnesses and any able-bodied person younger than 25 plus flight crew awareness and training and procedures will severely diminish the risk of a terror attack happening again with an airplane in the US.
 
marcelh
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:50 am

jetwet1 wrote:
The one glaring issue to me is, we (The US and allies) did a great job of killing Joe terrorist, but never seemed to get around to the people that financed Joe and his pals.


A great job? The US has created in the Middle East a perfect storm and breeding ground for terrorists. Allies were drawn into it, first in Afghanistan, then Iraq because of the “weapons of mass destruction”. Ironically the US created a weapon of destruction, because ISIS only exists because of the war in Iraq. Those same Allies have taken the vast majority of all the terrorist attacks in the last two decades.

IMHO the US knows exactly who were financing them, but it has become much bigger to get them all. And a lot of people in the US have filled their pockets very well because of this “war on terror”….
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:01 pm

Terrorism is a tactic, not an enemy, we never stated who the enemy was. We’re gonna go through the cycle again, perhaps sooner than we think.
 
marcelh
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:05 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Terrorism is a tactic, not an enemy, we never stated who the enemy was. We’re gonna go through the cycle again, perhaps sooner than we think.


Wat against Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism, but the result is a perfect breeding ground (and Iran became much more powerful thanks to the USA)
 
jetwet1
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:33 pm

marcelh wrote:
jetwet1 wrote:
The one glaring issue to me is, we (The US and allies) did a great job of killing Joe terrorist, but never seemed to get around to the people that financed Joe and his pals.


A great job? The US has created in the Middle East a perfect storm and breeding ground for terrorists. Allies were drawn into it, first in Afghanistan, then Iraq because of the “weapons of mass destruction”. Ironically the US created a weapon of destruction, because ISIS only exists because of the war in Iraq. Those same Allies have taken the vast majority of all the terrorist attacks in the last two decades.

IMHO the US knows exactly who were financing them, but it has become much bigger to get them all. And a lot of people in the US have filled their pockets very well because of this “war on terror”….


Okay, Joe Terrorist may have been an incorrect name, but 271,000 dead is a high number. I stand by the rest of it, as always, follow the money.

Your last paragraph I agree with 100%
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:45 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Terrorism is a tactic, not an enemy, we never stated who the enemy was. We’re gonna go through the cycle again, perhaps sooner than we think.


It’s a tactic but the follow through requires a lot of money and sustained support. Follow the money
 
Dieuwer
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:17 pm

marcelh wrote:
IMHO the US knows exactly who were financing them, but it has become much bigger to get them all. And a lot of people in the US have filled their pockets very well because of this “war on terror”….


The gravy train of the Military-Industrial Complex had to be kept running after the USSR collapsed in the early 90's. The added "benefit" of the following "War on Terror" was to curtail even more civil liberties and make the oligarchs running the show (Wall Street) feel better and even more powerful.
Now that the "War on Terror" is diminishing in importance, I guess we can look forward to Cold War 2.0 with China.
 
marcelh
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:23 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
marcelh wrote:
IMHO the US knows exactly who were financing them, but it has become much bigger to get them all. And a lot of people in the US have filled their pockets very well because of this “war on terror”….


The gravy train of the Military-Industrial Complex had to be kept running after the USSR collapsed in the early 90's. The added "benefit" of the following "War on Terror" was to curtail even more civil liberties and make the oligarchs running the show (Wall Street) feel better and even more powerful.
Now that the "War on Terror" is diminishing in importance, I guess we can look forward to Cold War 2.0 with China.


Wat against drugs was also a huge success. /sarcasm

And Cold War 2.0 is the US already doing with Russia: Remember reluctance against Nordstream and the pressure the US used to certain European companies.
China is interesting because the US (Biden administration) wants to team up with Europe against China, but Europe (and especially the EU) has an own agenda. Europe isn’t a lapdog (or useful idiot) anymore. “Weapons of mass destruction” and the possibility that a few thousand voters in the US can make the difference in electing a Trump 2.0 has made clear we have to become less dependent..
 
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Kiwirob
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:56 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
Don't want to rile anyone up here, but I think security-wise, US aviation has somewhat lost its glamour from the post-911 security improvements. Take a look at all the bad behavior we get around us all the time. I seriously hope that someone (not specifically saying who or what) doesn't use that as an opportunity to ensue another tragedy... :banghead:

As for how I think we'll be in 20 years, we may end up back at square one because of the declining behavior of passengers. Maybe this time it could be internal (own citizens) rather than external forces. :crying:

Just my 2 cents though. Anyone else can elaborate/disagree with me.

The US government is pretty inept at a lot of things, but finding and subduing terrorists isn't one of them post 9/11.y ex gf took an aviation security class as part of her criminal justice undergrad studies. She said that it is impossible to know how many, if any, terror attacks TSA has actually stopped. You will never be able to know at least up until the typing of this message because they either stop people with the guns, knives, etc... going through security whether or not they have malicious intent or not and nothing has happened since 9/11 so there's argument both for and against the effectiveness for TSA. But all it takes is one 9/11 documentary to be watched by a voting citizen age 25 years or older to keep TSA in place because I'm 28 and we all saw it on TV. Yeah flying is less fun and security can be a pain in the butt, but at the end of the day an extra layer of safety and security isn't a bad thing.

Plus terror attacks are a lot more organized and have a good level of support from backers, case in point, again, 9/11. That kind of build up will definitely cause alarm bells to go off on the FBI, CIA, etc... and it will be taken care of by anything ranging from an FBI raid to a tomahawk missile strike. Some angry guy flipping on an airplane for wearing a mask isn't going to cause an all out act of terrorism, those 25+ year old 9/11 TV witnesses and any able-bodied person younger than 25 plus flight crew awareness and training and procedures will severely diminish the risk of a terror attack happening again with an airplane in the US.


To be fair before 9/11 nobody had hijacked and flown aircraft into buildings before 9/11.
 
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Boeing757100
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:33 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
To be fair before 9/11 nobody had hijacked and flown aircraft into buildings before 9/11.



What about the Bojinka Plot, where Ramzi Yousef and KSM planned to crash a Cessna full of explosives into the CIA headquarters. And the fact that planes weren't flown into buildings doesn't matter. There was still a plethora of other hijackings like the Indian Airlines flight near the millenium and Ethiopian 961, as well as the Air France plane in Algiers, if that counts.
 
petertenthije
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:42 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
To be fair before 9/11 nobody had hijacked and flown aircraft into buildings before 9/11.

Attempts where made though, fortunately the French authorities where able to take out the highjackers of AF8969.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_8969
 
FGITD
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Wed Sep 15, 2021 8:47 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
To be fair before 9/11 nobody had hijacked and flown aircraft into buildings before 9/11.



What about the Bojinka Plot, where Ramzi Yousef and KSM planned to crash a Cessna full of explosives into the CIA headquarters. And the fact that planes weren't flown into buildings doesn't matter. There was still a plethora of other hijackings like the Indian Airlines flight near the millenium and Ethiopian 961, as well as the Air France plane in Algiers, if that counts.


It’s not that hijackings didn’t result in deaths, more just that the general “agreement” of a hijacking was that you all sat back and went to Cuba or wherever. The plane and passengers were the bargaining tool. The idea of killing them all outright defeated the purpose.

Most of the crashed hijacked planes were the result of failed plans or running out of options (and fuel)

Bojinka was the warning that no one heeded.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:56 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
Don't want to rile anyone up here, but I think security-wise, US aviation has somewhat lost its glamour from the post-911 security improvements. Take a look at all the bad behavior we get around us all the time. I seriously hope that someone (not specifically saying who or what) doesn't use that as an opportunity to ensue another tragedy... :banghead:

As for how I think we'll be in 20 years, we may end up back at square one because of the declining behavior of passengers. Maybe this time it could be internal (own citizens) rather than external forces. :crying:

Just my 2 cents though. Anyone else can elaborate/disagree with me.

The US government is pretty inept at a lot of things, but finding and subduing terrorists isn't one of them post 9/11.y ex gf took an aviation security class as part of her criminal justice undergrad studies. She said that it is impossible to know how many, if any, terror attacks TSA has actually stopped. You will never be able to know at least up until the typing of this message because they either stop people with the guns, knives, etc... going through security whether or not they have malicious intent or not and nothing has happened since 9/11 so there's argument both for and against the effectiveness for TSA. But all it takes is one 9/11 documentary to be watched by a voting citizen age 25 years or older to keep TSA in place because I'm 28 and we all saw it on TV. Yeah flying is less fun and security can be a pain in the butt, but at the end of the day an extra layer of safety and security isn't a bad thing.

Plus terror attacks are a lot more organized and have a good level of support from backers, case in point, again, 9/11. That kind of build up will definitely cause alarm bells to go off on the FBI, CIA, etc... and it will be taken care of by anything ranging from an FBI raid to a tomahawk missile strike. Some angry guy flipping on an airplane for wearing a mask isn't going to cause an all out act of terrorism, those 25+ year old 9/11 TV witnesses and any able-bodied person younger than 25 plus flight crew awareness and training and procedures will severely diminish the risk of a terror attack happening again with an airplane in the US.


To be fair before 9/11 nobody had hijacked and flown aircraft into buildings before 9/11.


It was a failure of imagination and reading history, plenty of hijackings that were planned to use the planes in a kamikaze fashion. PSA and FDX, for two. An EAL DC-9 resulted in both crew being shot, one seriously, the other fatally. WN had an attempt at forcefully entering the cockpit, but the passengers got involved at killed the idiot. And that wasn’t that long before 9/11. The benign ride to Havana was long in the past.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Thu Sep 16, 2021 12:21 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
The US government is pretty inept at a lot of things, but finding and subduing terrorists isn't one of them post 9/11.y ex gf took an aviation security class as part of her criminal justice undergrad studies. She said that it is impossible to know how many, if any, terror attacks TSA has actually stopped. You will never be able to know at least up until the typing of this message because they either stop people with the guns, knives, etc... going through security whether or not they have malicious intent or not and nothing has happened since 9/11 so there's argument both for and against the effectiveness for TSA. But all it takes is one 9/11 documentary to be watched by a voting citizen age 25 years or older to keep TSA in place because I'm 28 and we all saw it on TV. Yeah flying is less fun and security can be a pain in the butt, but at the end of the day an extra layer of safety and security isn't a bad thing.

Plus terror attacks are a lot more organized and have a good level of support from backers, case in point, again, 9/11. That kind of build up will definitely cause alarm bells to go off on the FBI, CIA, etc... and it will be taken care of by anything ranging from an FBI raid to a tomahawk missile strike. Some angry guy flipping on an airplane for wearing a mask isn't going to cause an all out act of terrorism, those 25+ year old 9/11 TV witnesses and any able-bodied person younger than 25 plus flight crew awareness and training and procedures will severely diminish the risk of a terror attack happening again with an airplane in the US.


To be fair before 9/11 nobody had hijacked and flown aircraft into buildings before 9/11.


It was a failure of imagination and reading history, plenty of hijackings that were planned to use the planes in a kamikaze fashion. PSA and FDX, for two. An EAL DC-9 resulted in both crew being shot, one seriously, the other fatally. WN had an attempt at forcefully entering the cockpit, but the passengers got involved at killed the idiot. And that wasn’t that long before 9/11. The benign ride to Havana was long in the past.

And this one:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Byck
Which turns out was actually cited as an example of hijacked airliners in the 9/11 Commission Report.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:00 am

In business (as in life?), the definition of a "shock" or "crisis" is a problem you DID NOT ANTICIPATE and/or PREPARE FOR.

9/11 was an example. The 2008 housing bubble was another example. COVID-19 was another.

It would have been relatively easy to prevent 9/11, and find and kill Bin Laden. It was relatively easy not to allow so many subprime mortgages in early 2000s. But we didn't properly calculate the danger on these options.

The next 9/11 will occur in a different way. Using drones. Or using spyware. Or social media? Personally, if I hated the US, I would just buy a media outlet and pump out mind control garbage. But obviously, a whole litany of actors already do this on the regular.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Thu Sep 16, 2021 2:57 am

LCDFlight wrote:
In business (as in life?), the definition of a "shock" or "crisis" is a problem you DID NOT ANTICIPATE and/or PREPARE FOR.

9/11 was an example. The 2008 housing bubble was another example. COVID-19 was another.

It would have been relatively easy to prevent 9/11, and find and kill Bin Laden. It was relatively easy not to allow so many subprime mortgages in early 2000s. But we didn't properly calculate the danger on these options.

The next 9/11 will occur in a different way. Using drones. Or using spyware. Or social media? Personally, if I hated the US, I would just buy a media outlet and pump out mind control garbage. But obviously, a whole litany of actors already do this on the regular.


All good points with one minor caveat. Killing OBL was easy pre-9/11, but preventing AQ activities not so much. The see no evil mentality on Saudi funding of Salafi schools was one factor, another was the siloing of intel between federal agencies. Since 9/11 only one of those elements was fixed.
 
GDB
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Re: The State of Global Terror 20 Years After 9/11

Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:22 am

Kiwirob wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
Don't want to rile anyone up here, but I think security-wise, US aviation has somewhat lost its glamour from the post-911 security improvements. Take a look at all the bad behavior we get around us all the time. I seriously hope that someone (not specifically saying who or what) doesn't use that as an opportunity to ensue another tragedy... :banghead:

As for how I think we'll be in 20 years, we may end up back at square one because of the declining behavior of passengers. Maybe this time it could be internal (own citizens) rather than external forces. :crying:

Just my 2 cents though. Anyone else can elaborate/disagree with me.

The US government is pretty inept at a lot of things, but finding and subduing terrorists isn't one of them post 9/11.y ex gf took an aviation security class as part of her criminal justice undergrad studies. She said that it is impossible to know how many, if any, terror attacks TSA has actually stopped. You will never be able to know at least up until the typing of this message because they either stop people with the guns, knives, etc... going through security whether or not they have malicious intent or not and nothing has happened since 9/11 so there's argument both for and against the effectiveness for TSA. But all it takes is one 9/11 documentary to be watched by a voting citizen age 25 years or older to keep TSA in place because I'm 28 and we all saw it on TV. Yeah flying is less fun and security can be a pain in the butt, but at the end of the day an extra layer of safety and security isn't a bad thing.

Plus terror attacks are a lot more organized and have a good level of support from backers, case in point, again, 9/11. That kind of build up will definitely cause alarm bells to go off on the FBI, CIA, etc... and it will be taken care of by anything ranging from an FBI raid to a tomahawk missile strike. Some angry guy flipping on an airplane for wearing a mask isn't going to cause an all out act of terrorism, those 25+ year old 9/11 TV witnesses and any able-bodied person younger than 25 plus flight crew awareness and training and procedures will severely diminish the risk of a terror attack happening again with an airplane in the US.


To be fair before 9/11 nobody had hijacked and flown aircraft into buildings before 9/11.


Yes they had;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_8969

They learned from that, once airborne don't land, or you will get stormed.

Closer to home;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Byck
(I note TWA772LR found that too, the 2004 film about it isn't bad).

Which is of course a case of domestic terrorism, always even taking into account 9/11 the greatest threat to the US internally.
Just 6 years before though not with an aircraft, a Federal Building had already been destroyed in a mass casualty attack but I suspect many in the US have either forgotten it, or given the views of those who carried it out, would prefer it forgotten.

And as also noted further up, that PSA one and the whole 'take me to Cuba/Algeria' etc was long gone.

Interestingly, even in the USSR there were a surprising number of hijacks, largely covered up at the time of course, mostly of the older 'get me out of here' type but some thought to have more deadly intent, usually by members of various SSR states beyond Moscow.

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