Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
ArchGuy1
Topic Author
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:16 pm

A judge in North Carolina has blocked a voter ID law in North Carolina, saying that the law is racist. Will be interesting to see how this turns out.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.c ... eople.html
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13925
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:51 pm

Of course it was. The GOP , wants to take away the right to vote from anyone with out an ID. Voting is a right NC has and always will allow provisional ballots for those that they cannot verify.
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 2359
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:18 am

Personally, if Americans want voter ID to be used, it should be in a form of a nationally mandated ID card. India does this with a national voted ID card which doubles as an identity card.

But then there will be Americans who would decry it as giving up their freedom & liberties if they have a nationally mandated ID card...
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15968
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:28 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Personally, if Americans want voter ID to be used, it should be in a form of a nationally mandated ID card. India does this with a national voted ID card which doubles as an identity card.

But then there will be Americans who would decry it as giving up their freedom & liberties if they have a nationally mandated ID card...


Yup, free and distributed to all like an SSN. Time to put up or shut up. One can't whine about government tracking while insisting government check voter eligibility.
 
SoCalPilot
Posts: 154
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:37 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:34 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Personally, if Americans want voter ID to be used, it should be in a form of a nationally mandated ID card. India does this with a national voted ID card which doubles as an identity card.

But then there will be Americans who would decry it as giving up their freedom & liberties if they have a nationally mandated ID card...

Why not just use a state issued ID?

How is having to show an ID to vote racist but having to show an ID for a vaccine passport not? I suppose people who support vaccine passports don't want people of color around them at restaurants and bars?
 
User avatar
TheFlyingDisk
Posts: 2359
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:43 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:45 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
Why not just use a state issued ID?

How is having to show an ID to vote racist but having to show an ID for a vaccine passport not? I suppose people who support vaccine passports don't want people of color around them at restaurants and bars?


Such as? A driver's license is pointless for people who don't drive & not worth the hassles.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15968
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:10 am

SoCalPilot wrote:
having to show an ID for a vaccine passport not?


You're comparing a right granted to all citizens over 18 with entering restaurants, workplaces, and places of business - all of whom can make their own rules regarding health/safety? C'mon.
 
ArchGuy1
Topic Author
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:08 am

Aaron747 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
having to show an ID for a vaccine passport not?


You're comparing a right granted to all citizens over 18 with entering restaurants, workplaces, and places of business - all of whom can make their own rules regarding health/safety? C'mon.

What do you see with North Carolina's voting laws as common sense and what do you see as voter suppression.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15968
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:10 am

ArchGuy1 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
having to show an ID for a vaccine passport not?


You're comparing a right granted to all citizens over 18 with entering restaurants, workplaces, and places of business - all of whom can make their own rules regarding health/safety? C'mon.

What do you see with North Carolina's voting laws as common sense and what do you see as voter suppression.


Can't really say I'm familiar enough to have an opinion without looking into them a lot more.
 
ArchGuy1
Topic Author
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:40 am

Aaron747 wrote:
ArchGuy1 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

You're comparing a right granted to all citizens over 18 with entering restaurants, workplaces, and places of business - all of whom can make their own rules regarding health/safety? C'mon.

What do you see with North Carolina's voting laws as common sense and what do you see as voter suppression.


Can't really say I'm familiar enough to have an opinion without looking into them a lot more.

There is another thread in Non Aviation forum about the Texas voter law that you should chime in on though.
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2885
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:28 am

The US system and society, not just it's voting system, is complete and utter FUBAR'd. And there's no political will to do much about it, and whatever political will that is existing have neither the needed popular backing nor mandates behind it.

It really should be oh so simple; any eligible person who's old enough to vote should automatically be mailed a voting letter. A voter would then take that letter and a proof of identity to the nearest voting place, have the letter and ID validated and then cast their vote. End of story. That's how it's done in most civilised nations, but the US is not a civilised nation in this, and many other, senses. It's a deeply corrupt failed state, run solely for the benefit of the few to the detriment of the many.

Enjoy your guns.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 14738
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:07 am

Here in France we get a small paper card in the mail, every few years, that lasts for a number of elections. In small villages it's enough to vote as it's assumed "everyone knows everyone", however for cities you need a photo ID to go with it : National ID card, passport, driver's license... The National ID card is free, lasts 15 years, and you can't really live in France without one as it's needed for plenty of stuff. EU citizens are eligible to vote in local and european elections (they can also be elected locally, we even have a few foreign mayors), they can use their own national ID for that.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13925
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:38 pm

I am in NC, you go in state your name and address. If you are on the list in the computer, they give you a ballot with tags that trace back to who voted. If anyone else tries to vote as me, there will be consequences of fraud. I don't need the ID to vote.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10963
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:03 pm

B777LRF wrote:

It really should be oh so simple; any eligible person who's old enough to vote

That is the simple part????? when you have a nation built on immigrants who now want to protect their borders, exactly how or what is the definition of eligible?
Perhaps that is where the problem lies and everyone is just skirting around the issue?
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15803
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 1:54 pm

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
Why not just use a state issued ID?
How is having to show an ID to vote racist but having to show an ID for a vaccine passport not? I suppose people who support vaccine passports don't want people of color around them at restaurants and bars?

Such as? A driver's license is pointless for people who don't drive & not worth the hassles.


Almost all states motor vehicle agencies offer non-drivers ID although they require the same documents to verify citizenship and residency in the state to be issues. Problem is that, especially during the Pandemic, getting such new ID's has long waiting lists, require appointments and some have difficulty getting the necessary documents. Birth certificates may have got lost in fires, floods, other disasters, sudden moves or evictions, or just carelessness. Getting replacements may be time consuming and costly to get certified replacements, women who have been married will need certified copies of each marriage (if a change in last name). Some born in unusual circumstances where a birth certificate wasn't issued promptly will have even more issues. The use of one's Drivers License/Non-Driver's ID number on many documents can also lead to identity theft. That is some reasons many object to tight ID rules.

As to a National ID in the USA, that is something so politically unacceptable that it can't and won't happen. We don't like 'papers please' stuff. Still thre should be one national standard for ID to register and appear to vote.
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2885
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 2:43 pm

par13del wrote:
B777LRF wrote:

It really should be oh so simple; any eligible person who's old enough to vote

That is the simple part????? when you have a nation built on immigrants who now want to protect their borders, exactly how or what is the definition of eligible?
Perhaps that is where the problem lies and everyone is just skirting around the issue?


It is indeed the simple part. To be an eligible voter, first of all you have to be a legal resident and/or have legal citizenship. So the government will know who you are, have issued you with some sort of identification, and knows which address they're going to send your voting letter to.

What is so difficult about that?
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23951
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 3:20 pm

B777LRF wrote:
par13del wrote:
B777LRF wrote:

It really should be oh so simple; any eligible person who's old enough to vote

That is the simple part????? when you have a nation built on immigrants who now want to protect their borders, exactly how or what is the definition of eligible?
Perhaps that is where the problem lies and everyone is just skirting around the issue?


It is indeed the simple part. To be an eligible voter, first of all you have to be a legal resident and/or have legal citizenship. So the government will know who you are, have issued you with some sort of identification, and knows which address they're going to send your voting letter to.

What is so difficult about that?


Some people do not want any contact with the government at all. Some of them are called "off gridders" because they want to be completely off the grid of government control. There are "sovereign citizens" who believe government laws are not legal or something.

The newest voting restrictions, not just in NC but across the country, are directed at minorities and heavily Democratic areas. Republicans are trying desperately to cling to power. Not by actually passing any meaningful bills, but by throwing out voters who will vote against them.
 
NIKV69
Posts: 14425
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 4:00 pm

casinterest wrote:
Of course it was. The GOP , wants to take away the right to vote from anyone with out an ID. Voting is a right NC has and always will allow provisional ballots for those that they cannot verify.


I believe you have to show ID in Canada to vote. Does Canada want to take anyone rights away? Come on that line is old and so not true.
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 13925
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:58 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Of course it was. The GOP , wants to take away the right to vote from anyone with out an ID. Voting is a right NC has and always will allow provisional ballots for those that they cannot verify.


I believe you have to show ID in Canada to vote. Does Canada want to take anyone rights away? Come on that line is old and so not true.



it is true. If voter Photo ID was so important in the US, we would have free photo ID's.

Also, if voter fraud was so rampant, we would have millions of examples by now, as a name and address are still needed.
 
User avatar
CarlosSi
Posts: 813
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:29 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sat Sep 25, 2021 2:04 am

I'm two-sided on this issue.

On the one hand, it is by far a solution to a problem that does not exist, at least on the scale necessary to tip elections.

It is the equivalent of making aviation EVEN MORE SAFER in the US that any incident/accident is now zero percent for the next 100 years, but ticket prices go up 10x, people can't afford it, they drive, they DIE. Trying to fix a problem that does not exist only creates worse problems.

And second of all, I think a counter point needs to be addressed against republicans about this so called "integrity of the vote". To me it should mean more than keeping people from voting twice, but ensuring that everybody who does want to vote is able to vote /just once/. Where's the talk about that integrity? We are forced to be ruled under these politicians so anybody who wishes to have a say MUST be allowed to do so. Period.

On the other hand, voter ID does work in Canada and other countries, but there are alternatives available (and I think here in Texas as well actually...). Surely somebody can't get an ID card within 2 years and for free sometimes? C'mon..

That is about as far as I go with supporting voter ID. Unfortunately Republicans stop short of working out the kinks in voter ID. Because they. Don't. Care. They were ready to throw out a hundred thousand votes in Houston just because they were collected "illegally". Bogus. If they cared about the "integrity of the vote", they would have forced and fought TOOTH AND NAIL to get those people's votes recounted some legal way had the courts ruled in their favor, but they weren't, because they. Don't. Care.

I just don't want to listen to Republicans talking about securing they vote until they act to do more than just make it harder for all to vote, but also make sure no good citizen slips through the cracks.

I won't go at it with calling voter ID racist since that is sensationalist click-bait and leaves me open for attacks, but I will say I definitely don't really think Republicans care about minorities anyways considering their base thumps about white supremacy pretty often, and would not be surprised if a few of those politicians had some ulterior motive you can't prove, but for now, yeah, I won't call it racist without explaining the facts first.

I'll say it one more time. The integrity of the vote should mean not just a few people not voting twice or thrice, but many thousands more who would be unable to vote due to long work hours, inflexible schedule, other duties like children, disability, lack of transportation, CAN vote and DO vote. Period. And I wish more people would repeat this argument..
 
Jetty
Posts: 1393
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:29 am

Most of the first world countries demand and ID when you vote, many even wherever you go. How that is racist is beyond me. Nonsensical framing by the Democrats.
 
Newark727
Posts: 2538
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:46 am

Jetty wrote:
Most of the first world countries demand and ID when you vote, many even wherever you go. How that is racist is beyond me. Nonsensical framing by the Democrats.


Nobody would care if that was the whole scope of these laws. It's not. The forms of acceptable identification are simply one facet of a bigger program to shape who can vote, where they can vote, and how. North Carolina, the state behind this bill, is also the state behind this congressional map:
Image
This is politicians picking their voters instead of vice versa. Which voters do those politicians want? There's your racism. Simple.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23951
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:15 am

Jetty wrote:
Most of the first world countries demand and ID when you vote, many even wherever you go. How that is racist is beyond me. Nonsensical framing by the Democrats.


Here we go....

Democrats want voters to have ID too. But when Republicans make demands that hold back minorities, that is racist. Especially when those demands come days before registration closes. As Republicans do. Minorities who work two and three jobs just to scrape by have to drive here and there to get this piece of paperwork and pay this and that for that paperwork but a simple no photograph gun license is good enough for rural white evangelical areas.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14661
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sat Sep 25, 2021 6:32 am

Jetty wrote:
Most of the first world countries demand and ID when you vote, many even wherever you go. How that is racist is beyond me. Nonsensical framing by the Democrats.


And in how many of those doesn't each and every eligible voter have at least one of the usable IDs by law?

Best regards
Thomas
 
Redd
Posts: 1374
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:30 pm

seb146 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
Most of the first world countries demand and ID when you vote, many even wherever you go. How that is racist is beyond me. Nonsensical framing by the Democrats.


Here we go....

Democrats want voters to have ID too. But when Republicans make demands that hold back minorities, that is racist. Especially when those demands come days before registration closes. As Republicans do. Minorities who work two and three jobs just to scrape by have to drive here and there to get this piece of paperwork and pay this and that for that paperwork but a simple no photograph gun license is good enough for rural white evangelical areas.



How are they going to be working three jobs without an ID if you can't get one job without a valid ID? Also, how are they going to drive without an ID? A driver's license is necessary to drive, register a vehicle and to obtain vehicle insurance. In fact, I'm pretty sure there isn't much you can legally do in the USA without having at least one piece of valid ID.

So, if by your example, said person has 3 jobs and drives without having at least a driver's license (which is acceptable voter ID), He's/She's working illegally in three different places, and operating a motor vehicle illegally as well.
 
FGITD
Posts: 1741
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:58 pm

They got the job using their social security card/number, and they take the bus to work
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1425
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:02 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
having to show an ID for a vaccine passport not?


You're comparing a right granted to all citizens over 18 with entering restaurants, workplaces, and places of business - all of whom can make their own rules regarding health/safety? C'mon.


Since when voting is a right to all citizens in this country? You mean all convicted felons should be allowed to vote as well? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_di ... States.svg And how can you prove you are an eligible citizen if you can't show an ID. How about if I am from France and just show up saying I am a citizen, should they take my word for granted and allow me to vote?

OK, so I am going to show up in France one day (or any other of the dozens of 1st world countries) , say I am a French citizen, and vote on their elections, let see if they would allow me to cast a vote, just because I told them so. If I tell them they are racist for asking, would anyone support me?
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23951
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:21 pm

Redd wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Jetty wrote:
Most of the first world countries demand and ID when you vote, many even wherever you go. How that is racist is beyond me. Nonsensical framing by the Democrats.


Here we go....

Democrats want voters to have ID too. But when Republicans make demands that hold back minorities, that is racist. Especially when those demands come days before registration closes. As Republicans do. Minorities who work two and three jobs just to scrape by have to drive here and there to get this piece of paperwork and pay this and that for that paperwork but a simple no photograph gun license is good enough for rural white evangelical areas.



How are they going to be working three jobs without an ID if you can't get one job without a valid ID? Also, how are they going to drive without an ID? A driver's license is necessary to drive, register a vehicle and to obtain vehicle insurance. In fact, I'm pretty sure there isn't much you can legally do in the USA without having at least one piece of valid ID.

So, if by your example, said person has 3 jobs and drives without having at least a driver's license (which is acceptable voter ID), He's/She's working illegally in three different places, and operating a motor vehicle illegally as well.


The same way illegals get welfare. The right is always screaming about that.

People take the bus because not everyone drives a car. People walk because not everyone drives a car. When someone moves to a new area, they have a day or so to get an ID. After that, when they get a job, game over. They have bills to pay.

Besides, I thought no one had to have ID to vote? Which is it? With people working (because they don't want or don't qualify for any forms of government assistance) they have no time to vote. They can't get hours off to vote. People in rural areas have that luxury. In a town of 200, a person can go vote on their half hour lunch break. In a city, they don't have that. If they are lucky, the boss will understand if they are late or take a long break to go to the polling place.
 
Redd
Posts: 1374
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:37 pm

seb146 wrote:
Redd wrote:
seb146 wrote:

Here we go....

Democrats want voters to have ID too. But when Republicans make demands that hold back minorities, that is racist. Especially when those demands come days before registration closes. As Republicans do. Minorities who work two and three jobs just to scrape by have to drive here and there to get this piece of paperwork and pay this and that for that paperwork but a simple no photograph gun license is good enough for rural white evangelical areas.



How are they going to be working three jobs without an ID if you can't get one job without a valid ID? Also, how are they going to drive without an ID? A driver's license is necessary to drive, register a vehicle and to obtain vehicle insurance. In fact, I'm pretty sure there isn't much you can legally do in the USA without having at least one piece of valid ID.

So, if by your example, said person has 3 jobs and drives without having at least a driver's license (which is acceptable voter ID), He's/She's working illegally in three different places, and operating a motor vehicle illegally as well.



The same way illegals get welfare. The right is always screaming about that.

People take the bus because not everyone drives a car. People walk because not everyone drives a car. When someone moves to a new area, they have a day or so to get an ID. After that, when they get a job, game over. They have bills to pay.

Besides, I thought no one had to have ID to vote? Which is it? With people working (because they don't want or don't qualify for any forms of government assistance) they have no time to vote. They can't get hours off to vote. People in rural areas have that luxury. In a town of 200, a person can go vote on their half hour lunch break. In a city, they don't have that. If they are lucky, the boss will understand if they are late or take a long break to go to the polling place.



You can't get a job without an ID. A social security number/card needs to be matched to the applicant by an approved form of identification, to avoid identity fraud. So who are these people without ID? You can't work, can't drive, can't get social benefits, can't buy alcohol or tobacco, can't fly, can't enter establishments that require a vaccine passport, and many more things, unless you have an ID.

I'm just trying to picture a person who is incapable of obtaining a valid ID. That is a person that is literally incapable of doing anything legally, except voting. It doesn't make any sense. I think the USA is the only place in the 1st world where someone can vote without an ID.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3981
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:38 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
OK, so I am going to show up in France one day (or any other of the dozens of 1st world countries) , say I am a French citizen, and vote on their elections, let see if they would allow me to cast a vote, just because I told them so. If I tell them they are racist for asking, would anyone support me?


Are you capable of anything other than a straw-man argument. Obviously, if you showed up in France one day, you wouldn't be on the voter rolls. Case closed.


Redd wrote:
You can't get a job without an ID. A social security number/card needs to be matched to the applicant by an approved form of identification, to avoid identity fraud. So who are these people without ID? You can't work, can't drive, can't get social benefits, can't buy alcohol or tobacco, can't fly, can't enter establishments that require a vaccine passport, and many more things, unless you have an ID. I'm just trying to picture a person who is incapable of obtaining a valid ID. That is a person that is literally incapable of doing anything legally, except voting. It doesn't make any sense. I think the USA is the only place in the 1st world where someone can vote without an ID.


You are ignoring the fact than many of those roles accept an ID that, for reasons based on political reasons, are not accepted by states implementing these vote suppression laws. You certainly can work without an ID - otherwise there would be no 16-year-olds behind the counter at McDonalds; you certainly can get "social benefits" without the types of ID's these states are requiring for voting; you don't need a driver's license, gun permit, or paid-for-ID to get a vaccine passport... "and many more things..."

Explain why a state would allow someone with a gun permit to use that as an ID to vote, but would not allow someone with a student ID from the state university. Could it be that gun owners are more likely to support the party, while a student might lean towards a more progressive agenda? That seems obviously to any unjaundiced observer.

There is a reason why the Court took the case. That tells us all we need to know.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23951
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:52 am

Redd wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Redd wrote:


How are they going to be working three jobs without an ID if you can't get one job without a valid ID? Also, how are they going to drive without an ID? A driver's license is necessary to drive, register a vehicle and to obtain vehicle insurance. In fact, I'm pretty sure there isn't much you can legally do in the USA without having at least one piece of valid ID.

So, if by your example, said person has 3 jobs and drives without having at least a driver's license (which is acceptable voter ID), He's/She's working illegally in three different places, and operating a motor vehicle illegally as well.



The same way illegals get welfare. The right is always screaming about that.

People take the bus because not everyone drives a car. People walk because not everyone drives a car. When someone moves to a new area, they have a day or so to get an ID. After that, when they get a job, game over. They have bills to pay.

Besides, I thought no one had to have ID to vote? Which is it? With people working (because they don't want or don't qualify for any forms of government assistance) they have no time to vote. They can't get hours off to vote. People in rural areas have that luxury. In a town of 200, a person can go vote on their half hour lunch break. In a city, they don't have that. If they are lucky, the boss will understand if they are late or take a long break to go to the polling place.



You can't get a job without an ID. A social security number/card needs to be matched to the applicant by an approved form of identification, to avoid identity fraud. So who are these people without ID? You can't work, can't drive, can't get social benefits, can't buy alcohol or tobacco, can't fly, can't enter establishments that require a vaccine passport, and many more things, unless you have an ID.

I'm just trying to picture a person who is incapable of obtaining a valid ID. That is a person that is literally incapable of doing anything legally, except voting. It doesn't make any sense. I think the USA is the only place in the 1st world where someone can vote without an ID.


The point I was making is Republicans whining that we need to cut all welfare completely (Social Security, Medicare, food stamps, housing assistance, etc.) because people are streaming across the border and getting all this free government stuff. You have proven my point.

As far as getting an ID to vote, it needs to be renewed and updated when a person moves. That can take time. The closest DMV is not always right next door and never has no line. Oregon DMV is requiring appointments and issues temporary paper black-and-white IDs until the real one arrives weeks and weeks later. Even though we have automatic voter registration when a person gets an ID or license, other states are not that lucky. People have to wait to renew and update. And can't because they need a paycheck. And, yes, there are people who get their license for the first time at age 30 or 40 or 50 but need to spend days getting all the necessary legal documents. Which takes time they probably don't have. Especially in big cities where the majority of voters are Democrat or third party.
 
Redd
Posts: 1374
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:40 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:59 pm

alfa164 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
OK, so I am going to show up in France one day (or any other of the dozens of 1st world countries) , say I am a French citizen, and vote on their elections, let see if they would allow me to cast a vote, just because I told them so. If I tell them they are racist for asking, would anyone support me?


Are you capable of anything other than a straw-man argument. Obviously, if you showed up in France one day, you wouldn't be on the voter rolls. Case closed.


Redd wrote:
You can't get a job without an ID. A social security number/card needs to be matched to the applicant by an approved form of identification, to avoid identity fraud. So who are these people without ID? You can't work, can't drive, can't get social benefits, can't buy alcohol or tobacco, can't fly, can't enter establishments that require a vaccine passport, and many more things, unless you have an ID. I'm just trying to picture a person who is incapable of obtaining a valid ID. That is a person that is literally incapable of doing anything legally, except voting. It doesn't make any sense. I think the USA is the only place in the 1st world where someone can vote without an ID.


You are ignoring the fact than many of those roles accept an ID that, for reasons based on political reasons, are not accepted by states implementing these vote suppression laws. You certainly can work without an ID - otherwise there would be no 16-year-olds behind the counter at McDonalds; you certainly can get "social benefits" without the types of ID's these states are requiring for voting; you don't need a driver's license, gun permit, or paid-for-ID to get a vaccine passport... "and many more things..."

Explain why a state would allow someone with a gun permit to use that as an ID to vote, but would not allow someone with a student ID from the state university. Could it be that gun owners are more likely to support the party, while a student might lean towards a more progressive agenda? That seems obviously to any unjaundiced observer.

There is a reason why the Court took the case. That tells us all we need to know.


I'm looking through the internet, and it seems, that to be employed at McDonald's as a minor, you do indeed need a SSC and State ID. SS number is not enough. As for the vaccine passport, you don't need an ID to get the vaccine, but you need to show an ID when you present the passport at establishments, unless you have the electronic copy with your photo and information. And to get the electronic version, you need to verify your identity.

I'm not getting into the gun debate, or the dems vs. repubs, I'm not American and I don't really care. Just discussing the common sense aspect of requiring identification to be able to vote, because I find the topic interesting.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1425
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:56 pm

alfa164 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
OK, so I am going to show up in France one day (or any other of the dozens of 1st world countries) , say I am a French citizen, and vote on their elections, let see if they would allow me to cast a vote, just because I told them so. If I tell them they are racist for asking, would anyone support me?


Are you capable of anything other than a straw-man argument. Obviously, if you showed up in France one day, you wouldn't be on the voter rolls. Case closed.


Redd wrote:
You can't get a job without an ID. A social security number/card needs to be matched to the applicant by an approved form of identification, to avoid identity fraud. So who are these people without ID? You can't work, can't drive, can't get social benefits, can't buy alcohol or tobacco, can't fly, can't enter establishments that require a vaccine passport, and many more things, unless you have an ID. I'm just trying to picture a person who is incapable of obtaining a valid ID. That is a person that is literally incapable of doing anything legally, except voting. It doesn't make any sense. I think the USA is the only place in the 1st world where someone can vote without an ID.


You are ignoring the fact than many of those roles accept an ID that, for reasons based on political reasons, are not accepted by states implementing these vote suppression laws. You certainly can work without an ID - otherwise there would be no 16-year-olds behind the counter at McDonalds; you certainly can get "social benefits" without the types of ID's these states are requiring for voting; you don't need a driver's license, gun permit, or paid-for-ID to get a vaccine passport... "and many more things..."

Explain why a state would allow someone with a gun permit to use that as an ID to vote, but would not allow someone with a student ID from the state university. Could it be that gun owners are more likely to support the party, while a student might lean towards a more progressive agenda? That seems obviously to any unjaundiced observer.

There is a reason why the Court took the case. That tells us all we need to know.


Interesting, accuse someone of using a straw man, to then bring up the subject of guns on the same post.

I guess is 'cased closed' then, when we assume that voting and getting a gun aren't the same thing.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15968
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:12 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
SoCalPilot wrote:
having to show an ID for a vaccine passport not?


You're comparing a right granted to all citizens over 18 with entering restaurants, workplaces, and places of business - all of whom can make their own rules regarding health/safety? C'mon.


Since when voting is a right to all citizens in this country? You mean all convicted felons should be allowed to vote as well? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_di ... States.svg And how can you prove you are an eligible citizen if you can't show an ID. How about if I am from France and just show up saying I am a citizen, should they take my word for granted and allow me to vote?

OK, so I am going to show up in France one day (or any other of the dozens of 1st world countries) , say I am a French citizen, and vote on their elections, let see if they would allow me to cast a vote, just because I told them so. If I tell them they are racist for asking, would anyone support me?


I didn't say anything about whether or not IDs work. I said comparing basic rights like voting to the vaccine requirements is dumb and illogical. Nice straw man though.
 
User avatar
seb146
Posts: 23951
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:20 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
OK, so I am going to show up in France one day (or any other of the dozens of 1st world countries) , say I am a French citizen, and vote on their elections, let see if they would allow me to cast a vote, just because I told them so. If I tell them they are racist for asking, would anyone support me?


Are you capable of anything other than a straw-man argument. Obviously, if you showed up in France one day, you wouldn't be on the voter rolls. Case closed.


Redd wrote:
You can't get a job without an ID. A social security number/card needs to be matched to the applicant by an approved form of identification, to avoid identity fraud. So who are these people without ID? You can't work, can't drive, can't get social benefits, can't buy alcohol or tobacco, can't fly, can't enter establishments that require a vaccine passport, and many more things, unless you have an ID. I'm just trying to picture a person who is incapable of obtaining a valid ID. That is a person that is literally incapable of doing anything legally, except voting. It doesn't make any sense. I think the USA is the only place in the 1st world where someone can vote without an ID.


You are ignoring the fact than many of those roles accept an ID that, for reasons based on political reasons, are not accepted by states implementing these vote suppression laws. You certainly can work without an ID - otherwise there would be no 16-year-olds behind the counter at McDonalds; you certainly can get "social benefits" without the types of ID's these states are requiring for voting; you don't need a driver's license, gun permit, or paid-for-ID to get a vaccine passport... "and many more things..."

Explain why a state would allow someone with a gun permit to use that as an ID to vote, but would not allow someone with a student ID from the state university. Could it be that gun owners are more likely to support the party, while a student might lean towards a more progressive agenda? That seems obviously to any unjaundiced observer.

There is a reason why the Court took the case. That tells us all we need to know.


Interesting, accuse someone of using a straw man, to then bring up the subject of guns on the same post.

I guess is 'cased closed' then, when we assume that voting and getting a gun aren't the same thing.


I think s/he was talking about weapons ID is acceptable as a form of ID to vote but a student ID from a local college or university is not.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3981
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:31 pm

seb146 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
Are you capable of anything other than a straw-man argument. Obviously, if you showed up in France one day, you wouldn't be on the voter rolls. Case closed.

You are ignoring the fact than many of those roles accept an ID that, for reasons based on political reasons, are not accepted by states implementing these vote suppression laws. You certainly can work without an ID - otherwise there would be no 16-year-olds behind the counter at McDonalds; you certainly can get "social benefits" without the types of ID's these states are requiring for voting; you don't need a driver's license, gun permit, or paid-for-ID to get a vaccine passport... "and many more things..."

Explain why a state would allow someone with a gun permit to use that as an ID to vote, but would not allow someone with a student ID from the state university. Could it be that gun owners are more likely to support the party, while a student might lean towards a more progressive agenda? That seems obviously to any unjaundiced observer.

There is a reason why the Court took the case. That tells us all we need to know.


Interesting, accuse someone of using a straw man, to then bring up the subject of guns on the same post. I guess is 'cased closed' then, when we assume that voting and getting a gun aren't the same thing.


I think s/he was talking about weapons ID is acceptable as a form of ID to vote but a student ID from a local college or university is not.


:checkmark: Exactly. It is impossible to ignore the intent of these lawmakers trying to get "their" voters easy access to the polls, while putting more and more roadblocks in the way of voters they perceive to be from "the other side".
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1425
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 26, 2021 6:37 pm

seb146 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

Are you capable of anything other than a straw-man argument. Obviously, if you showed up in France one day, you wouldn't be on the voter rolls. Case closed.




You are ignoring the fact than many of those roles accept an ID that, for reasons based on political reasons, are not accepted by states implementing these vote suppression laws. You certainly can work without an ID - otherwise there would be no 16-year-olds behind the counter at McDonalds; you certainly can get "social benefits" without the types of ID's these states are requiring for voting; you don't need a driver's license, gun permit, or paid-for-ID to get a vaccine passport... "and many more things..."

Explain why a state would allow someone with a gun permit to use that as an ID to vote, but would not allow someone with a student ID from the state university. Could it be that gun owners are more likely to support the party, while a student might lean towards a more progressive agenda? That seems obviously to any unjaundiced observer.

There is a reason why the Court took the case. That tells us all we need to know.


Interesting, accuse someone of using a straw man, to then bring up the subject of guns on the same post.

I guess is 'cased closed' then, when we assume that voting and getting a gun aren't the same thing.


I think s/he was talking about weapons ID is acceptable as a form of ID to vote but a student ID from a local college or university is not.


Probably for the very simple reason a gun license or ID is a government or state issued form of Identification.

So a college or university issued ID does not fall under “government issued form of identification”

Very simple premise.
 
FGITD
Posts: 1741
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:12 pm

Go figure, some states the ID requirements can be waived if a poll worker can attest to knowing you. Makes sense in some communities where there’s 100 people. Still just interesting that some of these stringent requirements can be bypassed by “yea I know Doug”

I say let’s just be done with it all. Create a required ID for all Americans. Make it a form you get from the post office or website, fill it in and mail it with a photo of yourself and a few weeks later your USA ID shows up. You pay postage and the cost of the photo. It has your picture, your birth date, and, your state of residence. Valid for 10 years. Put a barcode on it, scan and bring up the info. Done.

Time for the US to stop pretending it’s 1880 and we’re living in the Wild West.
 
Newark727
Posts: 2538
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:15 pm

FGITD wrote:
Go figure, some states the ID requirements can be waived if a poll worker can attest to knowing you. Makes sense in some communities where there’s 100 people. Still just interesting that some of these stringent requirements can be bypassed by “yea I know Doug”


Also lets poll workers freely choose who the law applies to. Weird how people keep bringing up Jim Crow comparisons, right?
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8707
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:41 pm

CarlosSi wrote:
Surely somebody can't get an ID card within 2 years and for free sometimes? C'mon..

I think the main issues with this are:
1. Moving the goalposts every so often. Today, any kind of photo-ID works. Tomorrow, student IDs are not acceptable (but your hunting license is).
2. The total cost of going to get the ID. I am on the "you can still get an ID even if you don't drive" bandwagon. Many states offer a state ID that's not suitable for driving but still works out to the same concept. HOWEVER, what is the cost of getting it? Nominally, it may be free (some states charge, but it's a fraction of what a driver's license would cost), but what about the time to stand in line to get the ID in the first place? What if you need to go to other agencies to get the paperwork? What if you're from out of state and have to get your birth certificate in person in the state you were born (as my dad had to do a few years ago)? Then that ID is technically no longer free or easy to get.

I've said this before: I'm absolutely fine with the idea of an ID to vote. In PR, you need an electoral card to get a ballot; no card, no ballot. Not even your driver's license or passport will save you. But that electoral card is free, with the electoral commission going to malls and schools and events to sign people up. You're told what you need in preparation. If you can vouch for your SSN, you don't need to present the SS card. If you have a passport (book or card), that already serves as evidence of identity (no need to get a birth certificate). Bring a utility bill and that's all you need to confirm your address.

In the states, they need to make the ID easy to get. And if the goalposts are to be moved, they should come into effect AFTER the next general election (federal or state).

So yeah...I agree that people not getting an ID within 2 years is just pure laziness, but let's not pretend that goalposts aren't moved every so often and that IDs are a click away.
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 8707
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:46 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
So a college or university issued ID does not fall under “government issued form of identification”

A state-owned university would technically be a government institution. On top of that, before you can even enroll, you have to show evidence of who you are (I showed my birth certificate and gave my SSN to my undergrad university). What interest does the university have in providing me with a fake ID? And why would a poll worker think my ID is fake if I can correctly mention other aspects of my registration (like address and full name)?

If we're under the assumption that the ID office at a university can conspire to hand out fake IDs, what's to say that the ID offices at your local DMV wouldn't do the same thing?
 
alfa164
Posts: 3981
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:33 pm

AirWorthy99 wrote:
Probably for the very simple reason a gun license or ID is a government or state issued form of Identification. So a college or university issued ID does not fall under “government issued form of identification” Very simple premise.


Maybe your premise is simple... but it is simple wrong. I specifically stated "a student ID from a State University - which is very much a government-issued identification.
 
AirWorthy99
Posts: 1425
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:57 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:17 am

alfa164 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Probably for the very simple reason a gun license or ID is a government or state issued form of Identification. So a college or university issued ID does not fall under “government issued form of identification” Very simple premise.


Maybe your premise is simple... but it is simple wrong. I specifically stated "a student ID from a State University - which is very much a government-issued identification.


Let me see, so the government won't allow a State college ID to sell you liquor but you want them to accept it for voting.

California which is the most liberal state in the country, won't sell you liquor even if you show a school or college ID.

https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licens ... ification/

So there must be a reason for that, probably because that would lead to a massive issuance of fake college ID's that would allow many of them kids to drink before they are 21? wouldn't the government think the same that a school or college ID would make easier for voter fraud? you may not think that since you are all in for it, but that's a true possibility..

In any case, if you can get your self to school, you might as well be able to get to a DMV and get an official government issued ID, so you can vote.

I wonder how many fake gun license cards are out there. Since they are government issued, I am sure they are very hard to forge or fake.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15968
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:30 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
AirWorthy99 wrote:
Probably for the very simple reason a gun license or ID is a government or state issued form of Identification. So a college or university issued ID does not fall under “government issued form of identification” Very simple premise.


Maybe your premise is simple... but it is simple wrong. I specifically stated "a student ID from a State University - which is very much a government-issued identification.


Let me see, so the government won't allow a State college ID to sell you liquor but you want them to accept it for voting.

California which is the most liberal state in the country, won't sell you liquor even if you show a school or college ID.

https://www.abc.ca.gov/education/licens ... ification/

So there must be a reason for that, probably because that would lead to a massive issuance of fake college ID's that would allow many of them kids to drink before they are 21? wouldn't the government think the same that a school or college ID would make easier for voter fraud? you may not think that since you are all in for it, but that's a true possibility..

In any case, if you can get your self to school, you might as well be able to get to a DMV and get an official government issued ID, so you can vote.

I wonder how many fake gun license cards are out there. Since they are government issued, I am sure they are very hard to forge or fake.


Are you for a national standard or do you want state/local control over voter standards and processes?
 
User avatar
CarlosSi
Posts: 813
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:29 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:26 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Surely somebody can't get an ID card within 2 years and for free sometimes? C'mon..

I think the main issues with this are:
1. Moving the goalposts every so often. Today, any kind of photo-ID works. Tomorrow, student IDs are not acceptable (but your hunting license is).
2. The total cost of going to get the ID. I am on the "you can still get an ID even if you don't drive" bandwagon. Many states offer a state ID that's not suitable for driving but still works out to the same concept. HOWEVER, what is the cost of getting it? Nominally, it may be free (some states charge, but it's a fraction of what a driver's license would cost), but what about the time to stand in line to get the ID in the first place? What if you need to go to other agencies to get the paperwork? What if you're from out of state and have to get your birth certificate in person in the state you were born (as my dad had to do a few years ago)? Then that ID is technically no longer free or easy to get.

I've said this before: I'm absolutely fine with the idea of an ID to vote. In PR, you need an electoral card to get a ballot; no card, no ballot. Not even your driver's license or passport will save you. But that electoral card is free, with the electoral commission going to malls and schools and events to sign people up. You're told what you need in preparation. If you can vouch for your SSN, you don't need to present the SS card. If you have a passport (book or card), that already serves as evidence of identity (no need to get a birth certificate). Bring a utility bill and that's all you need to confirm your address.

In the states, they need to make the ID easy to get. And if the goalposts are to be moved, they should come into effect AFTER the next general election (federal or state).

So yeah...I agree that people not getting an ID within 2 years is just pure laziness, but let's not pretend that goalposts aren't moved every so often and that IDs are a click away.



Agreed. Or have everyone who at the time to register to vote creates a PIN like for SSN that they must provide with mail in or even at the polls (electronically too) in place of an ID.

Stuff like what you mention is why I know the GOP is just after suppressing votes they don’t like, even if at face value it might SEEM like they have a decent argument. The reality is that their arguments are weak or lack warrant to exist.

There is no mass voter fraud for one..
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15968
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:33 am

CarlosSi wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
Surely somebody can't get an ID card within 2 years and for free sometimes? C'mon..

I think the main issues with this are:
1. Moving the goalposts every so often. Today, any kind of photo-ID works. Tomorrow, student IDs are not acceptable (but your hunting license is).
2. The total cost of going to get the ID. I am on the "you can still get an ID even if you don't drive" bandwagon. Many states offer a state ID that's not suitable for driving but still works out to the same concept. HOWEVER, what is the cost of getting it? Nominally, it may be free (some states charge, but it's a fraction of what a driver's license would cost), but what about the time to stand in line to get the ID in the first place? What if you need to go to other agencies to get the paperwork? What if you're from out of state and have to get your birth certificate in person in the state you were born (as my dad had to do a few years ago)? Then that ID is technically no longer free or easy to get.

I've said this before: I'm absolutely fine with the idea of an ID to vote. In PR, you need an electoral card to get a ballot; no card, no ballot. Not even your driver's license or passport will save you. But that electoral card is free, with the electoral commission going to malls and schools and events to sign people up. You're told what you need in preparation. If you can vouch for your SSN, you don't need to present the SS card. If you have a passport (book or card), that already serves as evidence of identity (no need to get a birth certificate). Bring a utility bill and that's all you need to confirm your address.

In the states, they need to make the ID easy to get. And if the goalposts are to be moved, they should come into effect AFTER the next general election (federal or state).

So yeah...I agree that people not getting an ID within 2 years is just pure laziness, but let's not pretend that goalposts aren't moved every so often and that IDs are a click away.



Agreed. Or have everyone who at the time to register to vote creates a PIN like for SSN that they must provide with mail in or even at the polls (electronically too) in place of an ID.

Stuff like what you mention is why I know the GOP is just after suppressing votes they don’t like, even if at face value it might SEEM like they have a decent argument. The reality is that their arguments are weak or lack warrant to exist.

There is no mass voter fraud for one..


That may be true but Trump and his acolytes have muddied the water so much that millions BELIEVE fraud is everywhere despite no evidence.

As I said, Putin and Xi can just hang up their destabilization ops because these morons are doing it for them while wrapped in the flag.
 
User avatar
CarlosSi
Posts: 813
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:29 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Mon Sep 27, 2021 1:51 am

Aaron747 wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
I think the main issues with this are:
1. Moving the goalposts every so often. Today, any kind of photo-ID works. Tomorrow, student IDs are not acceptable (but your hunting license is).
2. The total cost of going to get the ID. I am on the "you can still get an ID even if you don't drive" bandwagon. Many states offer a state ID that's not suitable for driving but still works out to the same concept. HOWEVER, what is the cost of getting it? Nominally, it may be free (some states charge, but it's a fraction of what a driver's license would cost), but what about the time to stand in line to get the ID in the first place? What if you need to go to other agencies to get the paperwork? What if you're from out of state and have to get your birth certificate in person in the state you were born (as my dad had to do a few years ago)? Then that ID is technically no longer free or easy to get.

I've said this before: I'm absolutely fine with the idea of an ID to vote. In PR, you need an electoral card to get a ballot; no card, no ballot. Not even your driver's license or passport will save you. But that electoral card is free, with the electoral commission going to malls and schools and events to sign people up. You're told what you need in preparation. If you can vouch for your SSN, you don't need to present the SS card. If you have a passport (book or card), that already serves as evidence of identity (no need to get a birth certificate). Bring a utility bill and that's all you need to confirm your address.

In the states, they need to make the ID easy to get. And if the goalposts are to be moved, they should come into effect AFTER the next general election (federal or state).

So yeah...I agree that people not getting an ID within 2 years is just pure laziness, but let's not pretend that goalposts aren't moved every so often and that IDs are a click away.



Agreed. Or have everyone who at the time to register to vote creates a PIN like for SSN that they must provide with mail in or even at the polls (electronically too) in place of an ID.

Stuff like what you mention is why I know the GOP is just after suppressing votes they don’t like, even if at face value it might SEEM like they have a decent argument. The reality is that their arguments are weak or lack warrant to exist.

There is no mass voter fraud for one..


That may be true but Trump and his acolytes have muddied the water so much that millions BELIEVE fraud is everywhere despite no evidence.

As I said, Putin and Xi can just hang up their destabilization ops because these morons are doing it for them while wrapped in the flag.


True.

Unfortunately the way democrats are framing it only creates more negative reception. Sure it may discriminate after the fact on the basis of race, but in this day and age calling anything “racist” when it has little to do with race is going to look silly.

Just look at how democrats gave republicans an opening to look silly when they made the forefront of replacing RBG “it was her dying wish”. Stupid. The GOP focused on THIS to make democrats look silly, and deflect the fact that they blocked Obama on 2016. They should’ve focused on the GOP’s hypocriticism and Merrill Garland. The senate composition argument was just moving the goal post.

Keep it to the facts, avoid emotions, and people WILL change how they perceive their politicians
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 15968
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:40 am

CarlosSi wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:


Agreed. Or have everyone who at the time to register to vote creates a PIN like for SSN that they must provide with mail in or even at the polls (electronically too) in place of an ID.

Stuff like what you mention is why I know the GOP is just after suppressing votes they don’t like, even if at face value it might SEEM like they have a decent argument. The reality is that their arguments are weak or lack warrant to exist.

There is no mass voter fraud for one..


That may be true but Trump and his acolytes have muddied the water so much that millions BELIEVE fraud is everywhere despite no evidence.

As I said, Putin and Xi can just hang up their destabilization ops because these morons are doing it for them while wrapped in the flag.


True.

Unfortunately the way democrats are framing it only creates more negative reception. Sure it may discriminate after the fact on the basis of race, but in this day and age calling anything “racist” when it has little to do with race is going to look silly.

Just look at how democrats gave republicans an opening to look silly when they made the forefront of replacing RBG “it was her dying wish”. Stupid. The GOP focused on THIS to make democrats look silly, and deflect the fact that they blocked Obama on 2016. They should’ve focused on the GOP’s hypocriticism and Merrill Garland. The senate composition argument was just moving the goal post.

Keep it to the facts, avoid emotions, and people WILL change how they perceive their politicians


Agreed but it seems we’re way past that. It’s all hyperemotional now and nuance is dead. We are no longer a serious, adult country in terms of politics.
 
Newark727
Posts: 2538
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:42 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:17 am

CarlosSi wrote:
True.

Unfortunately the way democrats are framing it only creates more negative reception. Sure it may discriminate after the fact on the basis of race, but in this day and age calling anything “racist” when it has little to do with race is going to look silly.


That's how racism works, though. Take a look at the State of Louisiana's literacy test. Particularly what isn't in there - there's nothing about the race of the applicant. But everyone giving this test knew what it was used for - keeping black voters off the rolls. This was the bedrock of Jim Crow - without a single word about white supremacy, or keeping black people from voting. Just give a loophole, and let people's existing biases do the work. The outcome of "discriminating after the fact on the basis of race" becomes exactly the same as discriminating before the fact on the basis of race - so what is the purpose of making the distinction?
 
User avatar
CarlosSi
Posts: 813
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:29 pm

Re: Voter ID Law Blocked in North Carolina

Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:59 am

Newark727 wrote:
CarlosSi wrote:
True.

Unfortunately the way democrats are framing it only creates more negative reception. Sure it may discriminate after the fact on the basis of race, but in this day and age calling anything “racist” when it has little to do with race is going to look silly.


That's how racism works, though. Take a look at the State of Louisiana's literacy test. Particularly what isn't in there - there's nothing about the race of the applicant. But everyone giving this test knew what it was used for - keeping black voters off the rolls. This was the bedrock of Jim Crow - without a single word about white supremacy, or keeping black people from voting. Just give a loophole, and let people's existing biases do the work. The outcome of "discriminating after the fact on the basis of race" becomes exactly the same as discriminating before the fact on the basis of race - so what is the purpose of making the distinction?


I agree. That or the grandfather clause. I just think when it’s not so obvious we must stick to the facts and keep one’s composure so the other side won’t feel like we just have an agenda. Once that happens, the other side looks more and more childish. We don’t have to play their game of insults, even if they deserve them. What will they have to counter with? More insults and look even more ridiculous when we act professional?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 36 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos