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lightsaber
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:27 pm

The deadline for 1st Moderna, per my interpretation of the contractor guidelines, is October 27th.

My employer is setting up a *huge* vaccine clinic before then (mandatory, per the company, to have 1st jab by October 29th). By huge, they are clearing out the largest parking lot and shutting down a road to make this happen with large, open sided tents set up for days before. This parking lot is big enough to throw a carnival, most years, for family day with multiple rides (e.g., those big slides), game booths, and a booth for every club on campus, 10 food trucks (complimentary meals) and two big dinning tents. So this is a setup to serve the campus.

All three FDA approved vaccines are promised (Moderna, Pfizer, J&J). Boosters will be given too and all family age 12+ are invited. This is clinic #6 or #7 on site. Our neighboring site get a clinic the workday before. Prior clinics were tiny in comparison. (perhaps closed off 5% of the same lot).

Has anyone heard of what all the big companies are doing to help employees?

Lightsaber
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:28 pm

Here in the UK cases are rising again as we move towards winter and the Flu season.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/20/uk/u ... index.html

"The UK has more new Covid-19 cases than France, Germany, Italy and Spain combined."

I feel that we need to go back to facemask wearing in any public space as soon as possible. :box:
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:14 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Here in the UK cases are rising again as we move towards winter and the Flu season.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/20/uk/u ... index.html

"The UK has more new Covid-19 cases than France, Germany, Italy and Spain combined."

I feel that we need to go back to facemask wearing in any public space as soon as possible. :box:

As much as I am a fan of booster shots, I'm a bigger fan of the "swiss cheese model."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_cheese_model

Image

I'll be making my kids wear masks all winter in public...

Lightsaber
 
Chemist
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:20 am

Boosters now approved in the United States for J&J and Moderna, also mixed boosters, for certain eligible groups (65+, special health conditions if younger, high public contact professions).
I'm eligible and although my first doses were Pfizer, I think I'll try for Moderna boost over the next week or so.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:39 am

Chemist wrote:
Boosters now approved in the United States for J&J and Moderna, also mixed boosters, for certain eligible groups (65+, special health conditions if younger, high public contact professions).
I'm eligible and although my first doses were Pfizer, I think I'll try for Moderna boost over the next week or so.

Please post a link:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fda-a ... NewsSearch


Now the race for boosters...

Lightsaber

Late edit: The boosters aren't available yet. But soon.

Next up to review vaccines for 5-11 then boosters for age 40+.

I personally like the mix and match. My local pharmacy has a choice of Moderna. J&J is available only at my employer on site vaccination clinics or at Costco. Pfizer is at a few pharmacies, but not the 3 closest. I can imagine in rural areas this will make boosters far easier. We have brand X, take it or drive to the big city...
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:32 pm

I found a link for a small (I must emphasize small) study on Pfizer booster effectiveness.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2113468

If you look at Beta, 18-55 year olds were dropping below their minimum line. Age 65+ had half below the line for enough immunity. The boosters tremendously increased protection vs Beta by 3.65x multiple for young, 4.36 for elderly.

They only have data for protection vs. Delta at 1 month after 2nd jab. This data shows, to me, we must have boosters to slow the spread.

Lightsaber
 
art
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:38 pm

What strategy is required to suppress COVID-19 in a country with a reasonably high rate of full vaccination?

Here in the UK 68% of the population has been fully vaccinated yet the infection rate has increased considerably from Aug 21 when 62% were fully vaccinated (infection 7 day average Aug 21 being 31K; infection 7 day average Oct 21 being 46K). So we have increased protection on the one hand but have increased infection on the other. Can anyone offer an explanation?

I have my ideas but would be interested in the views of others.

By the way, I sought data under the UK Freedom of Information Act. The response (frustratingly):

Thank you for your communication dated 4 October 2021.

NHS England has assessed your communication as a request under the Freedom of Information (FOI) Act 2000. As such, your request is being dealt with under the terms of the FOI Act, and has been allocated the following reference number: FOI-2110-1579224.

Your exact request was:

“ I would like to know the breakdown of cases and deaths with regard to vaccination status. Please furnish the following information:

a) percentage breakdown of people admitted to hospital

1 with no vaccination
2 with 1 dose of vaccination (of 2 required)
3 fully vaccinated (1 of 1 dose required or 2 of 2 doses required)

b) percentage breakdown of people who die with COVID-19 diagnosed with 28 days

1 with no vaccination
2 with 1 dose of vaccination (of 2 required)
3 fully vaccinated (1 of 1 dose required or 2 of 2 doses required)”


Hospital admissions by vaccine status:


NHS England does not hold this data.


Nonsense, I think. When the worst epidemic since 1917-1920 hits the country, data as I requested is not stored! A John MacInroe response would be apt here, I think!
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:41 pm

Valid epidemiology information is surprisingly difficult and expensive to gather, process, and validate. Our county and state have been required by these limitations to repeatedly recast their published results. Central governments hopefully will spend some time and money on better and more consistent reporting and processing of this information. Also up to date pandemic supplies and a strategy for alloting and delivering them was lacking. That information is essential for putting in place a strategy for dealing with epidemics.
 
StarAC17
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Fri Oct 22, 2021 5:23 pm

art wrote:
What strategy is required to suppress COVID-19 in a country with a reasonably high rate of full vaccination?

Here in the UK 68% of the population has been fully vaccinated yet the infection rate has increased considerably from Aug 21 when 62% were fully vaccinated (infection 7 day average Aug 21 being 31K; infection 7 day average Oct 21 being 46K). So we have increased protection on the one hand but have increased infection on the other. Can anyone offer an explanation?

I have my ideas but would be interested in the views of others.

By the way, I sought data under the UK Freedom of Information Act. The response (frustratingly):

Thank you for your communication dated 4 October 2021.

NHS England has assessed your communication as a request under the Freedom of Information (FOI) Act 2000. As such, your request is being dealt with under the terms of the FOI Act, and has been allocated the following reference number: FOI-2110-1579224.

Your exact request was:

“ I would like to know the breakdown of cases and deaths with regard to vaccination status. Please furnish the following information:

a) percentage breakdown of people admitted to hospital

1 with no vaccination
2 with 1 dose of vaccination (of 2 required)
3 fully vaccinated (1 of 1 dose required or 2 of 2 doses required)

b) percentage breakdown of people who die with COVID-19 diagnosed with 28 days

1 with no vaccination
2 with 1 dose of vaccination (of 2 required)
3 fully vaccinated (1 of 1 dose required or 2 of 2 doses required)”


Hospital admissions by vaccine status:


NHS England does not hold this data.


Nonsense, I think. When the worst epidemic since 1917-1920 hits the country, data as I requested is not stored! A John MacInroe response would be apt here, I think!


So 68% is actually quite low in terms of developed nations today and probably not enough to prevent a run on hospitals from yes primarily unvaccinated and immunocompromised people but if that happens the vaccinated will have to pay for it unfortunately. In Canada where were are in the mid 80% of 12+ vaccinations we are still in most places using the swiss cheese model that Lightsaber has a diagram for in reply 153 and its working in most places. What really gets us out is not 3rd doses (unless for vulnerable people, variant targeted, or that 80-90% are fully vaccinated), its vaccinated kids, and a very reliable therapeutic or ideally a few of them.

What I do see is that its very hard to let go with what is working even when the evidence suggests that a region is ready. In Ontario they are looking at removing all capacity restrictions and faced some serious backlash for letting sports and concert venues not have restrictions (besides masking, easy loophole out, nurse your beer) and not doing it for gyms and restaurants. I have heard some doctors try to spin this but at the end money talks and this decision was political. On top of this we have indoor masking and a vaccine passport for non-essential activities.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/editoria ... l-business

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/ ... -on-friday

As to your last point. Just because someone is a medical official or in politics doesn't make them smarter than the average person, or a better communicator.
As I have gotten older I have realized that just because someone like Fauci has an expertise in infectious disease doesn't mean he is effective in navigating public health policy and even those who run the CDC have been pretty dismal in communicating policy guidelines.

Someone who is generally good at both is a rare finds and IIRC Portugal has been very successful at vaccinating had actual communicators (PR, marketing people) present the why behind vaccination.
In the case of Portugal it was a general who did the talking and usually they don't spin anything because they are there not to.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/202 ... ffort.html

When the fools who run the CDC are talking (at least the ones talking to the media, obviously the entire CDC isn't stupid) and saying nothing will change even when vaccinated, the incentive is lost
 
StarAC17
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:31 pm

When the fools who run the CDC are talking (at least the ones talking to the media, obviously the entire CDC isn't stupid) and saying nothing will change even when vaccinated, the incentive is lost


I am clarifying that the CDC are fools in the methods of their communication. I am not attacking their competence as doctors or epidemiologists, just their ability to communicate with the public.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Fri Oct 22, 2021 8:04 pm

Looking at the Washington Post US map, toggles between cases and deaths per 100K, I see in Washington state that cases are more evenly spread throughout the state than are deaths. My reading of that is in any group of more than a several dozen people there is a fair possibility of at least 1 person active with Covid. Counties with more vaccinated and more careful people, especially those who are vulnerable, are less likely to contract an infection. My own county which did so well for so long is now doing poorly. Our major defense industry is seeing only 50% or so vaccinated. The mandate shortly goes into effect. If my reading is correct we should be seeing a drop in case and death rate in another several weeks.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:08 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
art wrote:
What strategy is required to suppress COVID-19 in a country with a reasonably high rate of full vaccination?

Here in the UK 68% of the population has been fully vaccinated yet the infection rate has increased considerably from Aug 21 when 62% were fully vaccinated (infection 7 day average Aug 21 being 31K; infection 7 day average Oct 21 being 46K). So we have increased protection on the one hand but have increased infection on the other. Can anyone offer an explanation?

I have my ideas but would be interested in the views of others.

By the way, I sought data under the UK Freedom of Information Act. The response (frustratingly):

Thank you for your communication dated 4 October 2021.

NHS England has assessed your communication as a request under the Freedom of Information (FOI) Act 2000. As such, your request is being dealt with under the terms of the FOI Act, and has been allocated the following reference number: FOI-2110-1579224.

Your exact request was:

“ I would like to know the breakdown of cases and deaths with regard to vaccination status. Please furnish the following information:

a) percentage breakdown of people admitted to hospital

1 with no vaccination
2 with 1 dose of vaccination (of 2 required)
3 fully vaccinated (1 of 1 dose required or 2 of 2 doses required)

b) percentage breakdown of people who die with COVID-19 diagnosed with 28 days

1 with no vaccination
2 with 1 dose of vaccination (of 2 required)
3 fully vaccinated (1 of 1 dose required or 2 of 2 doses required)”


Hospital admissions by vaccine status:


NHS England does not hold this data.


Nonsense, I think. When the worst epidemic since 1917-1920 hits the country, data as I requested is not stored! A John MacInroe response would be apt here, I think!


So 68% is actually quite low in terms of developed nations today and probably not enough to prevent a run on hospitals from yes primarily unvaccinated and immunocompromised people but if that happens the vaccinated will have to pay for it unfortunately. In Canada where were are in the mid 80% of 12+ vaccinations we are still in most places using the swiss cheese model that Lightsaber has a diagram for in reply 153 and its working in most places. What really gets us out is not 3rd doses (unless for vulnerable people, variant targeted, or that 80-90% are fully vaccinated), its vaccinated kids, and a very reliable therapeutic or ideally a few of them.

What I do see is that its very hard to let go with what is working even when the evidence suggests that a region is ready. In Ontario they are looking at removing all capacity restrictions and faced some serious backlash for letting sports and concert venues not have restrictions (besides masking, easy loophole out, nurse your beer) and not doing it for gyms and restaurants. I have heard some doctors try to spin this but at the end money talks and this decision was political. On top of this we have indoor masking and a vaccine passport for non-essential activities.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/editoria ... l-business

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/ ... -on-friday

As to your last point. Just because someone is a medical official or in politics doesn't make them smarter than the average person, or a better communicator.
As I have gotten older I have realized that just because someone like Fauci has an expertise in infectious disease doesn't mean he is effective in navigating public health policy and even those who run the CDC have been pretty dismal in communicating policy guidelines.

Someone who is generally good at both is a rare finds and IIRC Portugal has been very successful at vaccinating had actual communicators (PR, marketing people) present the why behind vaccination.
In the case of Portugal it was a general who did the talking and usually they don't spin anything because they are there not to.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/202 ... ffort.html

When the fools who run the CDC are talking (at least the ones talking to the media, obviously the entire CDC isn't stupid) and saying nothing will change even when vaccinated, the incentive is lost

My math says 80% to 92% must be fully vaccinated before we have the what strategy will work. Not 80%+ of adults, but 80%+ of the total population.

Masks slow spread. Social distancing works.

I agree, the communication has be inconsistent and comes across as motivated... poorly. The CDC has great researchers and accountants to crunch numbers and suggest policy. After reading various medical journal papers, I do a better job communicating to those I know. Don't worry, you do not want an engineer communicating national health.

E.g., the booster communication is bad at all angles. A simple "we learned J&J is a two dose vaccine and others a three dose" is so much clearer than the current muck.

Graphs, were are the easy graphics? Long cover your... presentations take away. Short simple messaging gains trust with long discussion on CSPAN. The on/off masking is taking away from vaccination drives.

KISS isn't just for engineers.

Lightsaber
 
Toenga
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:55 pm

New Zealand is transitioning away from it' current 3 level covid alert system to a three colour traffic light system once 90% vaccination levels of eligible people, are reached in local district health boards. (NZ has age 12 and over eligible for vaccination)
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/454 ... -framework
So continuing a very conservative strategy and really the mechanics of not opening up until everybody in NZ has had reasonable opportunity to receive both doses.

Notable also is that the criteria is wider then merely vaccination levels alone. Case numbers, and trends are considered, as is hospital and isolation capacities.

We are still some distance from achieving the required vaccination levels.
Currently for eligible people at 69% fully vaccinated and 86% one dose. The big split is indicative of the late vaccine supply.
Unlimited vaccine supply was not achieved until mid September with the delivery of surplus doses from Spain and Denmark ahead of the very large scheduled deliveries from Pfizer in October. This delayed the commencement of the outreach programs to remote areas that already suffered from poor access to medical services, high levels of deprivation, and unfortunately also often poor engagement with officialdom.

Currently NZ has Auckland, and the area immediatly south of Auckland, in covid level 3, "lockdown with takeaways" with the rest of the country in level 2, open but with restrictions on gathering sizes , mandatory masks outdoors.
A delta outbreak is in the level 3 areas currently with case numbers doubling about every 12 days but modest by world standards, even Australasian standards, at 129 new cases yesterday and 51people in hospital, 5 in ICU.
https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/m ... ministered.

So we still have a way to go in getting to that 90%.
https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/dis ... ccine-data.
A third primary dose of Pfizer is available to severly immunocompromised people. This is different from the proposed booster shot program yet to be announced.
https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/m ... ompromised
Only 28 people have died of covid in NZ, and only 2 in the delta outbreak since mid August.
Estimated population of NZ 5.1 million.

A priority is opening the covid containment border between Auckland and the rest of NZ before Christmas, perhaps with both a requirement for both a negative covid test result and double vaccination.

Next priority will be relaxation of border control measures to allow stranded NZ'rs a path home without mandatory 14 day quarantine.
perhaps early in the New Year depending on how things go.

A general relaxation of border restrictions is later still. Perhaps Q2 next year?
 
StarAC17
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:59 pm

lightsaber wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
art wrote:
What strategy is required to suppress COVID-19 in a country with a reasonably high rate of full vaccination?

Here in the UK 68% of the population has been fully vaccinated yet the infection rate has increased considerably from Aug 21 when 62% were fully vaccinated (infection 7 day average Aug 21 being 31K; infection 7 day average Oct 21 being 46K). So we have increased protection on the one hand but have increased infection on the other. Can anyone offer an explanation?

I have my ideas but would be interested in the views of others.

By the way, I sought data under the UK Freedom of Information Act. The response (frustratingly):



Nonsense, I think. When the worst epidemic since 1917-1920 hits the country, data as I requested is not stored! A John MacInroe response would be apt here, I think!


So 68% is actually quite low in terms of developed nations today and probably not enough to prevent a run on hospitals from yes primarily unvaccinated and immunocompromised people but if that happens the vaccinated will have to pay for it unfortunately. In Canada where were are in the mid 80% of 12+ vaccinations we are still in most places using the swiss cheese model that Lightsaber has a diagram for in reply 153 and its working in most places. What really gets us out is not 3rd doses (unless for vulnerable people, variant targeted, or that 80-90% are fully vaccinated), its vaccinated kids, and a very reliable therapeutic or ideally a few of them.

What I do see is that its very hard to let go with what is working even when the evidence suggests that a region is ready. In Ontario they are looking at removing all capacity restrictions and faced some serious backlash for letting sports and concert venues not have restrictions (besides masking, easy loophole out, nurse your beer) and not doing it for gyms and restaurants. I have heard some doctors try to spin this but at the end money talks and this decision was political. On top of this we have indoor masking and a vaccine passport for non-essential activities.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/editoria ... l-business

https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/ ... -on-friday

As to your last point. Just because someone is a medical official or in politics doesn't make them smarter than the average person, or a better communicator.
As I have gotten older I have realized that just because someone like Fauci has an expertise in infectious disease doesn't mean he is effective in navigating public health policy and even those who run the CDC have been pretty dismal in communicating policy guidelines.

Someone who is generally good at both is a rare finds and IIRC Portugal has been very successful at vaccinating had actual communicators (PR, marketing people) present the why behind vaccination.
In the case of Portugal it was a general who did the talking and usually they don't spin anything because they are there not to.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/202 ... ffort.html

When the fools who run the CDC are talking (at least the ones talking to the media, obviously the entire CDC isn't stupid) and saying nothing will change even when vaccinated, the incentive is lost

My math says 80% to 92% must be fully vaccinated before we have the what strategy will work. Not 80%+ of adults, but 80%+ of the total population.

Masks slow spread. Social distancing works.

I agree, the communication has be inconsistent and comes across as motivated... poorly. The CDC has great researchers and accountants to crunch numbers and suggest policy. After reading various medical journal papers, I do a better job communicating to those I know. Don't worry, you do not want an engineer communicating national health.

E.g., the booster communication is bad at all angles. A simple "we learned J&J is a two dose vaccine and others a three dose" is so much clearer than the current muck.

Graphs, were are the easy graphics? Long cover your... presentations take away. Short simple messaging gains trust with long discussion on CSPAN. The on/off masking is taking away from vaccination drives.

KISS isn't just for engineers.

Lightsaber


Your math is probably right and these goalposts have moved given the Delta variant. Public health officials in Ontario are stating that 90% is the target under Delta, at this point it is eligible people but I think as it becomes eligible for 5-11 in the next month or so we will keep masking indoors until they reach this threshold also.

Ontario averages 500 daily cases with a 1.5% positivity rate and population of 15 million. These are official tests and not rapid tests done and usually 25,000 per day are completed.

https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-repor ... -1.5634042

More than likely the kids will be vaccinated in the same proportion as the parents so if supply is available it can be done quickly.

We will agree to disagree on the boosters (for healthy people) and I am suspect if the companies are advocating them because to them that means $$$ in their pockets.

I think we can wait until there is one that actually targets Delta or a few of the variants. The vaccines do have a strong Cell mediated (T-cell) response and that will keep illness largely mild even if antibody levels drop.

I would rather the surplus shots go to places that are under vaccinated through COVAX for the time being.
 
Dupli
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:30 am

lightsaber wrote:
My math says 80% to 92% must be fully vaccinated before we have the what strategy will work. Not 80%+ of adults, but 80%+ of the total population.



80% is not enough. I live in a region with 80% of the population vaccinated. Almost all restrictions are gone, no more Swiss cheese currently. Cases have started shooting up, hospitalisations following.

There is no herd immunity through natural immunity with this virus. Some regions in Iran apparently have estimated case numbers >200% of the population. And previous infection didn't prevent a bad outcome: the last wave was the deadliest.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Mahan_Ghafar ... 66092?s=20 (Twitter thread from the scientist who did the research)
If this translates to immunity from vaccines, we will need very frequent boosters, and the immunity compromised in society have a serious problem.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:00 pm

Dupli wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
My math says 80% to 92% must be fully vaccinated before we have the what strategy will work. Not 80%+ of adults, but 80%+ of the total population.



80% is not enough. I live in a region with 80% of the population vaccinated. Almost all restrictions are gone, no more Swiss cheese currently. Cases have started shooting up, hospitalisations following.

There is no herd immunity through natural immunity with this virus. Some regions in Iran apparently have estimated case numbers >200% of the population. And previous infection didn't prevent a bad outcome: the last wave was the deadliest.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Mahan_Ghafar ... 66092?s=20 (Twitter thread from the scientist who did the research)
If this translates to immunity from vaccines, we will need very frequent boosters, and the immunity compromised in society have a serious problem.

Then the next step is to keep vaccinating more people as that implies the 92% level is required, which none have achieved. This paper noted just vaccinating adolescents reduces hospitalizations 60% and deaths 57% for the UK thanks to reduced transmission (no one expects that many hospitalized adolescents).
https://www.news-medical.net/amp/news/2 ... study.aspx

What is the vaccine? As much as Pfizer gets beat up needing a booster, I am of the opinion:
J&J must be a two dose
All inactivated virus vaccines need 3 doses
All mRNA need a booster by 5 months

I use the terms from this list of approved vaccines:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... orizations

We'll get through this. Israel's booster campaign brought their rate below Germany.
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/co ... EU~JPN~ISR

Obviously we need to stop the spread in schools. That means getting very young vaccinated. It also means practicing the swiss cheese model:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_c ... ver3.0.png

Image

Lightsaber
 
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scbriml
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:52 pm

GDB wrote:
scbriml wrote:
GDB wrote:
Had the booster yesterday, Pfizer, as before no ill effects, nor from my annual flu vaccine last week.


I had my flu jab last week, but haven’t been called for my Covid booster yet.


Likely due to me listed as taking immune suppressants, same reason with the flu one since 2000.


I asked about the booster at a pop-up vaccination site and was told boosters were not being scheduled until six months and one week after second vaccination. That's first week of November for me.
 
art
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:55 pm

scbriml wrote:
I asked about the booster at a pop-up vaccination site and was told boosters were not being scheduled until six months and one week after second vaccination. That's first week of November for me.


December for me.

I see a late, large government reaction to the rising infection rate looming. The rise in the English population being vaccinated - currently at 74% first dosed, 68% fully dosed - is petering out at a level too low to stop the epidemic spiralling upwards without behavioural changes.

I think we are condemned to the prospect of intermittent lockdowns unless the government mandates vaccine passports for the use of shops, public transport and enclosed public spaces (pubs, theatres, night clubs etc). Currently there are millions of people here who have chosen to be petri dishes for COVID-19 or for their children to be petri dishes for the disease. The situation produced by giving the same access to services to people who decline vaccination as to those who accept is absurd.

Astonishingly on BBC news I have just heard a doctor saying that 7% of health workers are not vaccinated.

PS figures for % of population that had received 1st jab at the start of the following months

Mar 30%
Apr 47%
May 51%
Jun 59%
Jul 67%
Aug 70%
Sep 72%
Oct 73%
 
pune
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:35 am

Does anybody have any views or ideas about the new delta-plus variant. Been reading it about but at the moment in time, seems restricted to UK only but in this day and age with civil aviation who knows :(

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58965650.amp

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59009293
 
StarAC17
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:32 am

pune wrote:
Does anybody have any views or ideas about the new delta-plus variant. Been reading it about but at the moment in time, seems restricted to UK only but in this day and age with civil aviation who knows :(

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58965650.amp

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59009293


10% is not a big deal in terms of contagiousness. Considering that Alpha was about double the contagiousness of the native virus and Delta double that. That in itself is a factor of 4x. Adding 10% to that is minor, probably within any margin of error.

It will spread regardless of air travel. The black plague and Spanish Flu spread far without air travel. I honestly laugh that we think that some pathogens can be stopped. Humans think we have far more control than we actually have.

There is nothing we could have done to stop Covid in its initial tracks. This thing was spreading globally well before it was figured out.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 185328.htm
 
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scbriml
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:38 pm

art wrote:
I see a late, large government reaction to the rising infection rate looming. The rise in the English population being vaccinated - currently at 74% first dosed, 68% fully dosed - is petering out at a level too low to stop the epidemic spiralling upwards without behavioural changes.


Where did you get those figures?

Per the government’s own site, the rates for England are: 1st dose 86.1% and 2nd dose 78.9% (both numbers based on over 12 population).
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details ... %20Kingdom

[quote=“art”]I think we are condemned to the prospect of intermittent lockdowns unless the government mandates vaccine passports for the use of shops, public transport and enclosed public spaces (pubs, theatres, night clubs etc). Currently there are millions of people here who have chosen to be petri dishes for COVID-19 or for their children to be petri dishes for the disease. The situation produced by giving the same access to services to people who decline vaccination as to those who accept is absurd.

Astonishingly on BBC news I have just heard a doctor saying that 7% of health workers are not vaccinated.[/quote]

Personally, I’ll be amazed if we get through winter without another lockdown. To say my wife is excited at the prospect of our daughter and 18 month granddaughter spending Christmas with us is a massive understatement. But apparently, urging caution and restraint make me a bad person! Said daughter’s best friend is a GP and refuses to be vaccinated! She’s caught COVID twice now.

I’m in France for a few days and I have to say, they seem to be taking everything more seriously than we are in the UK (in my experience). Just about everyone wears a mask and you have to show your vaccination certificate to get into most places.
 
Toenga
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:50 pm

scbriml wrote:
art wrote:
I see a late, large government reaction to the rising infection rate looming. The rise in the English population being vaccinated - currently at 74% first dosed, 68% fully dosed - is petering out at a level too low to stop the epidemic spiralling upwards without behavioural changes.


Where did you get those figures?

Per the government’s own site, the rates for England are: 1st dose 86.1% and 2nd dose 78.9% (both numbers based on over 12 population).
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details ... %20Kingdom
.


The Guardian publishes figures as a percentage of the entire population, not eligible population, which allows true comparison between countries, removing the considerable variation of age of eligibility.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... ions-today
This is particularily relevant due to the high infection rates in children, which although do not suffer the consequences of covid to the same extent as older people, their high levels of mobility have a disparate effect on overall transmission.
 
art
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:16 pm

@scrimbl

I take my data re:vaccination in England from the vaccination data published daily by NHS England. Any calculations done by me are based on the population of England. So if I say that 80% of the population... whatever, it refers to 80% of the entire population, not 80% those who qualify for vaccination.

I don't think that calculating figures based on those qualifying for vaccination is very useful.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:05 pm

art wrote:
@scrimbl

I take my data re:vaccination in England from the vaccination data published daily by NHS England. Any calculations done by me are based on the population of England. So if I say that 80% of the population... whatever, it refers to 80% of the entire population, not 80% those who qualify for vaccination.

I don't think that calculating figures based on those qualifying for vaccination is very useful.


I'm not defending the government in any way, but if you're going to exclude a certain age group from being vaccinated, why would you include that age group in a measure of who's vaccinated?
 
Toenga
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:23 pm

scbriml wrote:
art wrote:
@scrimbl

I take my data re:vaccination in England from the vaccination data published daily by NHS England. Any calculations done by me are based on the population of England. So if I say that 80% of the population... whatever, it refers to 80% of the entire population, not 80% those who qualify for vaccination.

I don't think that calculating figures based on those qualifying for vaccination is very useful.


I'm not defending the government in any way, but if you're going to exclude a certain age group from being vaccinated, why would you include that age group in a measure of who's vaccinated?


They are two different measures with different applications.
The percentage vaccinated against the whole population really determines the risk reduction, how close to that aspirational "herd immunity" where outbreaks are largely self extinguishing without additional measures.
And this is the only measure to consider when making comparisons between countries, and their relative effectiveness of control measures.
It also saves the appearance of moving goal posts, if age of eligibility alters.
Australia officially now bizarrely uses percentages of over 16s vaccinated, when everybody over the age of 11 is eligible for and is being encouraged to get vaccinated and has been for over a month now.
The percentage of eligible people vaccinated though is the local measure of penetration of the country's vaccination program.
Even the UK is a bit fuzzy in this respect with younger people now being vaccinated.
 
cskok8
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:37 am

The virus does not know or care who is eligible for vaccination
 
Kent350787
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:52 am

cskok8 wrote:
The virus does not know or care who is eligible for vaccination


Although appears to present a lower risk in the young than in adults, even with Delta variant.

In my state (NSW Australia), 83.1% of 12yo+ are fully vaccinated. Approx. 5.6% of almost 59,000 cases since 16 June have been fully vaccinated. Only 2.9% of people admitted to ICU in that period have been fully vaccinated. The fully vaxxed rate has increased from 56% to 83.1% in the last month, while daily new cases have decreased by 2/3 in the same period.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:59 am

lightsaber wrote:
Now the race for boosters...

Lightsaber

Late edit: The boosters aren't available yet. But soon.

Next up to review vaccines for 5-11 then boosters for age 40+.

I personally like the mix and match. My local pharmacy has a choice of Moderna. J&J is available only at my employer on site vaccination clinics or at Costco. Pfizer is at a few pharmacies, but not the 3 closest. I can imagine in rural areas this will make boosters far easimer. We have brand X, take it or drive to the big city...


I like mix and match too, but as one who is in a phase 3 Moderna trial, I can't do that and remain in the trial. If there is ever any reason for a 4th shot, I'll probably go for the J&J, because it uses a different mechanism than the mRNA vaccines. I definitely want my wife's parents who got the CoviShield vaccine which is an Indian manufactured version of the AstraZeneca vaccine to get Moderna boosters the next time they visit the US.
 
Toenga
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:32 am

Kent350787 wrote:
cskok8 wrote:
The virus does not know or care who is eligible for vaccination


Although appears to present a lower risk in the young than in adults, even with Delta variant.

In my state (NSW Australia), 83.1% of 12yo+ are fully vaccinated. Approx. 5.6% of almost 59,000 cases since 16 June have been fully vaccinated. Only 2.9% of people admitted to ICU in that period have been fully vaccinated. The fully vaxxed rate has increased from 56% to 83.1% in the last month, while daily new cases have decreased by 2/3 in the same period.


It looks like NZ is running about a month behind NSW, and perhaps 10 days behind VIC. Auckland is about 10 days ahead of the rest of the country.
We are taking a very conservative path on opening up. Indicative not to start until the whole country is at 90% of 12yo+ fully vaccinated.
This should be sometime early to mid December just after the vaccination passport scheduled to be functional late November.
It is great to see how the case numbers in NSW have rapidly subsided with these levels of vaccination.. Hopefully our currently growing outbreak mirrors this and peaks out very shortly too, limiting further damage.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:38 pm

cskok8 wrote:
The virus does not know or care who is eligible for vaccination

This is true. Schools in particular spread the virus:
To others:

https://gazette.com/news/us-world/child ... c.amp.html

The UK tends to have the accurate numbers:

On Friday one survey suggested prevalence was at its highest level since January, with 8% of secondary school children infected.


Any parent knows schools are germ factories.

China is now vaccinating age 3+
https://www.voanews.com/amp/china-to-va ... 84287.html
Local city and provincial level governments in at least five provinces issued notices in recent days announcing that children ages 3-11 will be required to get their vaccinations.

I personally dislike numbers manipulated other than total population. In my opinion when people hear above 70%, they relax their efforts.


Lightsaber
 
art
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:16 pm

lightsaber wrote:
cskok8 wrote:
I personally dislike numbers manipulated other than total population

So do I.

lightsaber wrote:
cskok8 wrote:
In my opinion when people hear above 70%, they relax their efforts.


I think that the figures reported showing very high percentages of the elegible being vaccinated encourage people to think that the COVID-19 problem has pretty much been been fixed. Those who have declined vaccination feel confident that they will not be infected now. In their minds the chance of becoming infected has almost disappeared since nearly everyone else has been vaccinated - and they consequently dismiss any concerns they might have had due to being unvaccinated.

Like you, I also think that people take fewer steps to avoid infection when they hear of 80% or 90% of people being vaccinated.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:26 pm

cskok8 wrote:
The virus does not know or care who is eligible for vaccination


It doesn't know or care who's vaccinated, either!
 
Toenga
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Mon Oct 25, 2021 9:59 pm

lightsaber wrote:
cskok8 wrote:
The virus does not know or care who is eligible for vaccination

This is true. Schools in particular spread the virus:
To others:

https://gazette.com/news/us-world/child ... c.amp.html

The UK tends to have the accurate numbers:

On Friday one survey suggested prevalence was at its highest level since January, with 8% of secondary school children infected.




Lightsaber


The current NZ outbreak is more or less confined to Auckland and an area immediatly south of the city, these are the only areas in the country currently in lockdown. Here vaccination levels of 12yo+ have now reached 90% first dose 77% second.
Because vaccinations were originally prioritised by age, the younger age groups have marketably relitively lower vaccination rates.
This is then reflected in infection rates and even hospitalisation rates.
Yesterday the average age of the 35 people hospitalised with covid in NZ is a mere 42 years of age.
https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/m ... ccine-dose

As a first stage of exiting lockdown secondary schools are reopening today, with mandatory masks and social distancing
Nationally about 50% of the 12-19 year olds have received their first dose, and about 75% their second. Auckland is probably up to 5% higher on both measures.
The big split is indicative of how recently vaccines have become available to this group.

Secondary school students are mostly mature enough to grasp the need for the additional restrictions. With important year end assessments there is a lot at stake.

Primary schools will however remain closed until the new academic year, early in the new year. This age group being entirely unvaccinated and highly social, with mask wearing and social distancing of limited practicality.
It is feared that primary schools would create a huge pool of infection to spread onward until our vaccination program has had the more time to advance further.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health ... ols-reopen
 
Kent350787
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:00 pm

In NSW, all students are now back at school, with over 50% of 12-15yo fully vaxxed. 18 of 2220 government schools were closed due to Covid cases yesterday.

Kids in Victoria are also heading back to school now
 
Dupli
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:41 pm

scbriml wrote:
cskok8 wrote:
The virus does not know or care who is eligible for vaccination


It doesn't know or care who's vaccinated, either!


Confirming what we already know: vaccinated transmit:
A substantial proportion of asymptomatic, fully vaccinated individuals in our study had
low Ct-values, indicative of high viral loads.

And
ere were no statistically significant differences in mean Ct-values of vaccinated (UeS:
23.1; HYT: 25.5) vs. unvaccinated (UeS: 23.4; HYT: 25.4) samples.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 2.full.pdf

Makes me wonder what the sense behind a COVID safe pass really is, especially the requirement to show a negative test if not vaccinated.

Is there someone here who has data on long COVID in vaccinated? Seems the more relevant data for the moment, both from a personal perspective as a public health perspective.
Last edited by Dupli on Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:10 pm

Dupli wrote:
scbriml wrote:
cskok8 wrote:
The virus does not know or care who is eligible for vaccination


It doesn't know or care who's vaccinated, either!


Confirming what we already know: vaccinated transmit:
A substantial proportion of asymptomatic, fully vaccinated individuals in our study had
low Ct-values, indicative of high viral loads.

And
ere were no statistically significant differences in mean Ct-values of vaccinated (UeS:
23.1; HYT: 25.5) vs. unvaccinated (UeS: 23.4; HYT: 25.4) samples.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 2.full.pdf

Makes me wonder what the sense behind a COVID safe pass really is, especially the requirement to show a negative test if not vaccinated.

Is there someone here who has data on long COVID in vaccinated? Seems the more relevant data for the moment, both from a personal perspective as a public health perspective.

Survey after survey shows that vaccines reduce transmission:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-n ... s-n1280583

This latest, really definitive survey of 150,000 infections shows
Pfizer fully vaccinated 65% less likely to infect another person.
AZ 36% less likely to infect another person.

This is for Delta.
So your pass shows you are a third as likely to infect someone if you had Pfizer. Your pass does two things:
1. Shows reduced chance of infecting others
2. For vaccinated, reduced impact when the virus is caught.

My relative is a doctor in a coronavirus ward. They are full and their allocation for coronavirus patients in the ICU is full. This is in Colorado:

ICU: 12, 2 are elderly vaccinated
Main coronavirus ward: 36, 2 vaccinated (will be out soon), currently 9 unvaccinated would have been in ICU, but the ongoing surge prevents that.
At home or a rented hotel, 16 active patients, all unvaccinated, (plus many more discharged from hospital, but possibly contagious who cannot safely isolate from family at home).

Long haul:
7 of 10 hospitalized patients will have long haul symptoms:
https://myhealth.ucsd.edu/library/preve ... 1653101686

54% of long haulers have symptoms six+ months later
79% of long haulers were hospitalized

https://www.mclaren.org/macomb/blog/cov ... dated-1669

Now, I have long haul Covid19 after a trivial case.

I've heard about 5% of unhospitalized cases get long haul, but that is verbal from my doctors (I have an active treatment plan, step 1, get vaccinated to remove live virus that survives in pockets in the body, in particular testes). Somehow the doctor recommended change in diet... somehow returned most of my taste and smell: I followed the advice thinking it was bunk, but as it is working, so I will keep following: low fat, low sugar, no alcohol until I am back to my high school weight (or for others to lose 20% of mass, but I do not have that much to lose). Seriously, I cheated (barely) on the diet and I was so excited to taste bacon again!!! (I had lost the taste and smell of fats).

So statistically, unvacvinated are far more likely to be hospitalized 29 times more likely than unvaccinated:
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cdc-stu ... covid.html

Since the vast majority of long haul is the hospitalized, it looks like unvaccinated are about 30 times more likely to get long haul symptoms.

I feel for those that have the brain fog or nerve pain.
One of my uncles can no longer taste grains, he has lost 30 pounds as he gave up alcohol as it turned out, he was really drinking a lot for the taste of beer! (I thought for another reason he drank a bit too much...)

Lightsaber
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Tue Oct 26, 2021 11:44 pm

Comparable rates of vaccinations are 73% Seattle, King County and 53% Kitsap County. Death rates are .2 per 100K and 1.1 per 100K. I suspect that is closely related to vaccination rates.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:55 pm

Some numbers, and remember hospitalized are 29X more likely to have long haul symptoms.
See 10:45 in this video, data from CDC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EGtmPU ... _tP-nI6em_

Unvaccinated are 5X more likely to test positive
10X more likely to be hospitalized
10X+ more likely to die

So taking my above link where hospitalized are 29X more likely to get long haul, that means unvaccinated should be 290X more likely to get long haul symptoms (give or take, lots of estimates).

Unfortunately, it looks like Global wave #6 has started (we are off minimum cases). As the above video is about India's holy season, we'll see just how long natural immunity lasts. This virus is exceptional at finding pockets to grow in. frmrCapCadet has a good point, case rates are far higher in unvaccinated areas (he used counties). My math, using Ro of 5, vaccine effectiveness of 70%, vaccine reduction in transmission of 65%, gives only a 1.6X difference in transmission rate between 53% and 73%. But since transmission is exponential... the vaccination rates really matter. We need to get well over 80% (which requires a younger kids vaccine, which is soon, but not yet).
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:44 pm

FDA approves Pfizer age 5+. For some reason the CDC, who must vote on this, doesn't meet until next week (I suspect to give time to distribute the smaller syringes and protocols).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... uxbndlbing
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:01 pm

Novavax has applied for UK approval:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/no ... NewsSearch

Technically, Novavax seems great, but it also always seems two months away from greatness. I wish them luck. As I personally believe everyone needs a booster and we still need to vaccinate the world, this should help if production volumes get up there.

Lightsaber
 
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BaconButty
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:54 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Novavax has applied for UK approval:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/no ... NewsSearch

Technically, Novavax seems great, but it also always seems two months away from greatness. I wish them luck. As I personally believe everyone needs a booster and we still need to vaccinate the world, this should help if production volumes get up there.

Lightsaber


Interesting

"The submission to MHRA leverages our manufacturing partnership with the Serum Institute of India, the world's largest supplier of COVID-19 vaccines," said Rick Crowley, Executive Vice President, Chief Operations Officer, Novavax. "In the near future, we expect to supplement this filing with supply from our global supply chain."


Their issues were batch to batch consistency, so I guess in aviation terms, type certificate no problem, production certificate the blocker. So it seems like they've opted to work with SI first to get that sorted, rather than the much smaller and less experienced UK supply chain, or the US one for that matter. Which makes sense. Hopefully the MHRA can turn this around pronto, it will help with the WHO approval. There has been a rolling review, so you would hope so.

Interesting to see if we get supply from India. There's a lot of noise from the vaccine hesitant on social media, who would refuse mRNA vaccines but take this. Would be good if it drives out a few more, however irrational it seems.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Wed Oct 27, 2021 5:46 pm

BaconButty wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Novavax has applied for UK approval:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/no ... NewsSearch

Technically, Novavax seems great, but it also always seems two months away from greatness. I wish them luck. As I personally believe everyone needs a booster and we still need to vaccinate the world, this should help if production volumes get up there.

Lightsaber


Interesting

"The submission to MHRA leverages our manufacturing partnership with the Serum Institute of India, the world's largest supplier of COVID-19 vaccines," said Rick Crowley, Executive Vice President, Chief Operations Officer, Novavax. "In the near future, we expect to supplement this filing with supply from our global supply chain."


Their issues were batch to batch consistency, so I guess in aviation terms, type certificate no problem, production certificate the blocker. So it seems like they've opted to work with SI first to get that sorted, rather than the much smaller and less experienced UK supply chain, or the US one for that matter. Which makes sense. Hopefully the MHRA can turn this around pronto, it will help with the WHO approval. There has been a rolling review, so you would hope so.

Interesting to see if we get supply from India. There's a lot of noise from the vaccine hesitant on social media, who would refuse mRNA vaccines but take this. Would be good if it drives out a few more, however irrational it seems.

First, thanks for the information. Yea, the production certification seems to not be meeting consistency.

I personally would like a dose of Novavax as it seems like it would get into more areas of the body, but just my uninformed opinion. But to hold off vaccination?!? Pfizer, AZ, J&J, Moderna, Covaxin, Sinovac, and Sinopharm have proven safe and effective. We can debate how many doses and how often... but to wait for the next vaccine? Safety starts with a vaccine in the blood.

Right now I have two relatives (vaccinated) and their two friends going through a saga.
Relative with Moderna, tested negative, never a symptom, slept next to:
Relative with J&J. Tested positive, one week of flu like symptoms, some loss if taste (persisting, but getting better).
Two friends unvaccinated: Tested positive, never hospitalized, 8 weeks of hell and both have long haul symptoms.

Oh, Covaxin's WHO application needs more time:
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/cov ... 22270.html

We need more easy to store vaccines. Hopefully Novavax gets their act together.

Lightsaber
 
cskok8
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:47 am

lightsaber wrote:
FDA approves Pfizer age 5+. For some reason the CDC, who must vote on this, doesn't meet until next week (I suspect to give time to distribute the smaller syringes and protocols).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... uxbndlbing


Not yet. FDA Advisory panel has recommended approval
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:49 pm

cskok8 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
FDA approves Pfizer age 5+. For some reason the CDC, who must vote on this, doesn't meet until next week (I suspect to give time to distribute the smaller syringes and protocols).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... uxbndlbing


Not yet. FDA Advisory panel has recommended approval

You're right, I misread, it was only the advisory panel. Do you know when the FDA committee meets? The CDC always waits for the final FDA decision. I would hope today and tomorrow, but I couldn't find a source.

Lightsaber
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:15 pm

Maybe someone needs to come up with a flow chart. There are a variety of agencies and other committees who must approve of a drug before that person with a syringe pokes it in an arm.

Research
Decision to manufacture
Regulatory oversight of the above
At least two or three testing in various populations
Regulatory oversight of the testing
Several regulatory assessment of the results of that testing before the 'go ahead'
Packaging, critical supply chain management, delivery

Some of these can proceed simultaneously. Wikipedia probably has all of this, but one would need an entire page length of links to list them all. I think here we are looking at the last two of the above. Each needs its own chart.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Thu Oct 28, 2021 2:51 pm

States preparing to start kids' vaccines next week (Pfizer age 5-11):
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... NewsSearch

Locally, I only know of one pharmacy that stocks Pfizer (most stock Moderna, I also only know one with J&J). Possibly as early as Wednesday or as late as Saturday. I'm not quoting sources because all are educated guesses.

Lightsaber
Late edit: I should note many local employers are doing on site clinics that somehow have all 3 vaccines for employees and families (including children), not just my employer. Those clinics are happening often due to the various mandates. I noted our clinic was empty at lunch, but multiple coworkers noted it was too long a line at the end of the manufacturing shop's day (they vaccinated at walk in pharmacies) and it started before 2nd shift as those workers were in line due to the mandate. Tomorrow is the deadline for employees to apply for an exemption or show proof of (1st dose or full) vaccination at my work site or termination process starts.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Sun Oct 31, 2021 4:13 pm

Dupli wrote:
Confirming what we already know: vaccinated transmit:


Yes, and people wearing seatbelts die. I'm getting tired of posting the same studies over and over again showing the faster fall-off for vaccinated breakthrough cases
Image
source: CDC

Or the continued reduced risk of infection:
Image
source: CDC

Or the reduced risk of secondary transmission.

So the vaccines aren't perfect, but don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.
 
leader1
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:51 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Dupli wrote:
Confirming what we already know: vaccinated transmit:


Yes, and people wearing seatbelts die. I'm getting tired of posting the same studies over and over again showing the faster fall-off for vaccinated breakthrough cases
Image
source: CDC

Or the continued reduced risk of infection:
Image
source: CDC

Or the reduced risk of secondary transmission.

So the vaccines aren't perfect, but don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.


Interesting that partial vaccination provides as much, if not more, protection against the virus. Any reason as to why?
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:47 pm

leader1 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:
Dupli wrote:
Confirming what we already know: vaccinated transmit:


Yes, and people wearing seatbelts die. I'm getting tired of posting the same studies over and over again showing the faster fall-off for vaccinated breakthrough cases
Image
source: CDC

Or the continued reduced risk of infection:
Image
source: CDC

Or the reduced risk of secondary transmission.

So the vaccines aren't perfect, but don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.


Interesting that partial vaccination provides as much, if not more, protection against the virus. Any reason as to why?


My guess is that it doesn't differentiate between those who are freshly vaccinated and those who got fully vaccinated 6+ months ago.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Covid19 - Vaccine News and discussion thread

Mon Nov 01, 2021 12:29 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
leader1 wrote:
DocLightning wrote:

Yes, and people wearing seatbelts die. I'm getting tired of posting the same studies over and over again showing the faster fall-off for vaccinated breakthrough cases
Image
source: CDC

Or the continued reduced risk of infection:
Image
source: CDC

Or the reduced risk of secondary transmission.

So the vaccines aren't perfect, but don't let perfect be the enemy of the good.


Interesting that partial vaccination provides as much, if not more, protection against the virus. Any reason as to why?


My guess is that it doesn't differentiate between those who are freshly vaccinated and those who got fully vaccinated 6+ months ago.


May also include behaviour effects from knowing that they are not protected yet.

Best regards
Thomas

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