lightsaber wrote:

Aesma wrote:

c933103 wrote:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/12/14/who-omicron-spreading-at-unprecedented-rate
WHO Tedros: "WHO is not against boosters. We’re against inequity." in comment against countries launched booster program for their entire adult population

The WHO could do something for a change, like vaccination missions to countries where governments are inept.

This has nothing to do with rich countries hoarding vaccines.

I agree it is inept governments. They seem to be trying to blame anyone but themselves, but that is just my opinion.

descl wrote:

If you look at the figures for Chile, boosted are 84% less likely to get covid, compared to 2 dose people, and 90% compared to non vaccinated, so yes, boosters do help cutting transmission, and that´s probably the main reason why Delta wave in Chile was so soft.
Regarding its effect on severe covid, it does help a lot in preventing hospital saturation:
ICU in Chile (+5 years old):
- 62% are non-vaccinated, out of 11%
- 27% are 2 doses, out of 40%
- 11% are boosted, out of 49%

lightsaber wrote:

If they are not taken, that is on them at this point.

Francoflier wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

If they are not taken, that is on them at this point.

I also wish that was the case. But that's the thing. It's not just on them, it's on everyone. We're all paying the price for the vast majority of unvaccinated crowding hospitals, either through taxes, insurance premiums, the inability to obtain lesser medical care and the endless cycle of constraints on our lives.

I would have no problem with the unvaccinated if they were made to pay fully out of pocket for their Covid care and were given lower priority for hospital admission.

Francoflier wrote:

I would have no problem with the unvaccinated if they were made to pay fully out of pocket for their Covid care and were given lower priority for hospital admission.

c933103 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-59615005

a third booster prevents around 75% of people getting any Covid symptoms.

Good, not great news. To myself, this means the vaccines are now a 3 dose course.

With SII with 500 million doses on hand and looking to cut production by 125 million doses, there is supply, not demand:
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/india ... 1.html/amp

Lightsaber

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ing_31.pdf
Relevant paragraphs:

o There is currently no evidence of increased reinfection risk at the population
level, but preliminary analyses indicate approximately three- to eight-fold
increased risk of reinfection with the Omicron variant.

o The Variant Technical Group reviewed the available neutralisation data from
published international and internal UK studies (UK Health Security Agency,
University of Oxford). UK data will be published as soon as possible and cited
here when available. Across 5 preliminary live virus studies (3 international
and 2 UK), there was a 20- to 40-fold reduction in neutralising activity by
Pfizer 2-dose vaccinee sera for Omicron compared to early pandemic viruses.
There was at least 10 fold loss of activity when compared to Delta; in both UK
studies this was over 20 fold. A greater reduction in activity was seen for AZ 2-
dose sera, and for a high proportion of such sera, neutralising activity fell
below the limit of quantification in the assay. An mRNA booster dose resulted
in an increase in neutralising activity irrespective of primary vaccination type,
including an increase in the proportion of samples that were above the limit of
quantification. This is true regardless of which vaccine was used for the
primary course. These data are from the early period after the booster and
data are urgently required on the durability of neutralising activity

o early estimates of vaccine effectiveness (VE) against symptomatic infection
find a significantly lower VE for against Omicron infection compared to Delta
infection. Nevertheless, a moderate to high vaccine effectiveness of 70 to 75%
is seen in the early period after a booster dose. With previous variants,
vaccine effectiveness against severe disease, including hospitalisation and
death, has been higher than effectiveness against mild disease. It will be a
few weeks before effectiveness against severe disease with Omicron can be
estimated, however based on this experience, this is likely to be substantially
higher than the estimates against symptomatic disease. The duration of
restored protection after mRNA boosting is not known at this juncture

The 70-75% efficiency against symptomatic infection is based on mRNA vaccine booster. Didn't include data of AZ/J&J booster.
Also, the report now say there are 5 different studies all showing the antibody from current vaccines are 20-40 times weaker against Omicron.
And 2-dose AZ's performance against Omicron fell below quantifiable lower bound.
----
Edit: The report also mentioned "If Omicron continues to grow at the present rate, Omicron is projected to reach parity with Delta
(equal proportion of cases) in mid-December." The estimation was apparently being made earlier this week
Given almost all the cases in the UK recently were Delta, that would mean Omicron is expected to reach half of all UK case in this coming week.
And they are using an effective reproduction number of 3.7 (95%CI 3.3-4.2), as in after taken into account the current social restriction and vaccination situation.

Aesma wrote:

Belgian guy got 8 shots, I hope they test his immunity : https://www.latestly.com/world/covid-19 ... 84580.html

I heard on the France Info radio that some scientists (didn't catch which group exactly) was recommending shortening the eligibility delay for the 3rd dose to 3 months.

If so, should I be looking for a 4th dose 3 months after the third ?

The research undertaken at the NIH in Bethesda, Maryland, is based on extensive sampling and analysis of tissues taken during autopsies on 44 patients who died after contracting the coronavirus during the first year of the pandemic in the U.S.

lightsaber wrote:

Aesma wrote:

Belgian guy got 8 shots, I hope they test his immunity : https://www.latestly.com/world/covid-19 ... 84580.html

I heard on the France Info radio that some scientists (didn't catch which group exactly) was recommending shortening the eligibility delay for the 3rd dose to 3 months.

If so, should I be looking for a 4th dose 3 months after the third ?

One study says the booster is only effective for 10 weeks.
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-lon ... dy-2021-12

The UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) said protection against symptomatic COVID-19 caused by the variant dropped from 70% to 45% after a Pfizer booster for those initially vaccinated with the shot developed by Pfizer with BioNTech.

In the same analysis published Thursday, the agency found the effectiveness of Moderna's booster paired with two doses of the Pfizer vaccine held at 70 to 75% for up to 9 weeks, though not many people in the study received this regimen, which could affect the accuracy of the finding.

This isn't good news. Errr... My booster was 11 weeks ago.

Lightsaber

yonahleung wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Aesma wrote:

Belgian guy got 8 shots, I hope they test his immunity : https://www.latestly.com/world/covid-19 ... 84580.html

I heard on the France Info radio that some scientists (didn't catch which group exactly) was recommending shortening the eligibility delay for the 3rd dose to 3 months.

If so, should I be looking for a 4th dose 3 months after the third ?

One study says the booster is only effective for 10 weeks.
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-lon ... dy-2021-12

The UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) said protection against symptomatic COVID-19 caused by the variant dropped from 70% to 45% after a Pfizer booster for those initially vaccinated with the shot developed by Pfizer with BioNTech.

In the same analysis published Thursday, the agency found the effectiveness of Moderna's booster paired with two doses of the Pfizer vaccine held at 70 to 75% for up to 9 weeks, though not many people in the study received this regimen, which could affect the accuracy of the finding.

This isn't good news. Errr... My booster was 11 weeks ago.

Lightsaber

That means that everyone should just hold the fire on the booster until there is an active Omicron outbreak...

yonahleung wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Aesma wrote:

Belgian guy got 8 shots, I hope they test his immunity : https://www.latestly.com/world/covid-19 ... 84580.html

I heard on the France Info radio that some scientists (didn't catch which group exactly) was recommending shortening the eligibility delay for the 3rd dose to 3 months.

If so, should I be looking for a 4th dose 3 months after the third ?

One study says the booster is only effective for 10 weeks.
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-lon ... dy-2021-12

The UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) said protection against symptomatic COVID-19 caused by the variant dropped from 70% to 45% after a Pfizer booster for those initially vaccinated with the shot developed by Pfizer with BioNTech.

In the same analysis published Thursday, the agency found the effectiveness of Moderna's booster paired with two doses of the Pfizer vaccine held at 70 to 75% for up to 9 weeks, though not many people in the study received this regimen, which could affect the accuracy of the finding.

This isn't good news. Errr... My booster was 11 weeks ago.

Lightsaber

That means that everyone should just hold the fire on the booster until there is an active Omicron outbreak..

.

That means that everyone should just hold the fire on the booster until there is an active Omicron outbreak..

Francoflier wrote:

I would have no problem with the unvaccinated if they were made to pay fully out of pocket for their Covid care and were given lower priority for hospital admission.

lightsaber wrote:

The UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) said protection against symptomatic COVID-19 caused by the variant dropped from 70% to 45% after a Pfizer booster for those initially vaccinated with the shot developed by Pfizer with BioNTech.

Aesma wrote:

Francoflier is in France, here by default people are insured and won't pay anything for hospitalization. The threat of having to pay might work on some, if the bill appears hefty enough, but it's very unlikely to be legal. What happens when/if hospitals are full is another story, the usual plan is to prioritize people who have better chances of making it. Clearly now with the vaccine having been available to all, this poses a dilemma : should a triple vaccinated 70yo or an unvaccinated 40yo be prioritized for the few remaining resources ?

DocLightning wrote:

Francoflier wrote:

I would have no problem with the unvaccinated if they were made to pay fully out of pocket for their Covid care and were given lower priority for hospital admission.

For the first part of your proposal, I'm afraid I have to disagree. You're dealing with a group of people who believe that it won't happen to them. The threat of death after prolonged suffering hasn't convinced them, so why do you think that the additional threat of bankruptcy will?

Aesma wrote:

Francoflier is in France...

lightsaber wrote:

Aesma wrote:

Francoflier is in France, here by default people are insured and won't pay anything for hospitalization. The threat of having to pay might work on some, if the bill appears hefty enough, but it's very unlikely to be legal. What happens when/if hospitals are full is another story, the usual plan is to prioritize people who have better chances of making it. Clearly now with the vaccine having been available to all, this poses a dilemma : should a triple vaccinated 70yo or an unvaccinated 40yo be prioritized for the few remaining resources ?

The US has a triage point system that has been around for decades with a few changes.
Points are bad. I had an uncle kicked out of the hospital as he had too many points (5 points for age and heart issues and that day everyone who had been in the hospital 3+ days with 5+ points went home).
So your example is a 70 year old or 4 points for age. Since no other heath conditions, 4 points.
There is talk of adding the unvaccinated at 3 points, one dose as 2, and unboosted as 1 point. In your hypothetical scenario, both these people would likely remain in the hospital unless they had other points.
Heart trouble 1 to 5 points
Obesity 1 point, Morbid obesity another point, One more point for every 5 BMI higher
Waist size over 94 cm (37 inches for those of us on Imperial) adds one more point
HIV 1 to 9 points
I already noted age which is 1 point at 50, 1 more point at 60, and then an added point for every 5 more years of age
Cancer is 1 to 7 points
Kidney disease is 1 to 7 points
Diabetes is 1 to 5 points
There are other points (honestly, I didn't remember all of them).

It would be very dire to get down to kicking people out of the hospital at 4 points. Before then they send people who can care for themselves home with oxygen and medicine to reduce the workload. My uncle survived, but wasn't expected to, but the hospital supported with everything needed. My cousins just had to help a lot (coronavirus patients are labor intensive).

I think the unvaccinated should get some points. That only seems fair. But not anything automatic. Also, US law requires the patient be stabilized before discharge.

Unfortunately ECMO machines are in short supply. One patient in Arizona died while waiting for an ECMO machine:
https://news.yahoo.com/clock-ticking-ar ... 40962.html
https://www.stripes.com/covid/2021-12-2 ... 90294.html

From my doctor friends, ECMO is almost guaranteed with multiple infections with Covid19. Long time on the machines. Here is an example of a young person on ECMO for 65 days:
https://www.newindianexpress.com/good-n ... 99474.html

This link says 9 of 10 in ICU in London unvaccinated:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/1711069 ... sive-care/

Well, that means most of those competing for ECMO will be unvaccinated. I'd like to just avoid that competition.

Lightsaber

Aesma wrote:

c933103 : these pills are quite rare and expensive (in fact I don't think they're available yet, there is remdesivir though but it's not a pill), the idea is to give them early, to people who are most at risk of faring badly : old, comorbidities, unvaccinated...

c933103 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Aesma wrote:

Francoflier is in France, here by default people are insured and won't pay anything for hospitalization. The threat of having to pay might work on some, if the bill appears hefty enough, but it's very unlikely to be legal. What happens when/if hospitals are full is another story, the usual plan is to prioritize people who have better chances of making it. Clearly now with the vaccine having been available to all, this poses a dilemma : should a triple vaccinated 70yo or an unvaccinated 40yo be prioritized for the few remaining resources ?

The US has a triage point system that has been around for decades with a few changes.
Points are bad. I had an uncle kicked out of the hospital as he had too many points (5 points for age and heart issues and that day everyone who had been in the hospital 3+ days with 5+ points went home).
So your example is a 70 year old or 4 points for age. Since no other heath conditions, 4 points.
There is talk of adding the unvaccinated at 3 points, one dose as 2, and unboosted as 1 point. In your hypothetical scenario, both these people would likely remain in the hospital unless they had other points.
Heart trouble 1 to 5 points
Obesity 1 point, Morbid obesity another point, One more point for every 5 BMI higher
Waist size over 94 cm (37 inches for those of us on Imperial) adds one more point
HIV 1 to 9 points
I already noted age which is 1 point at 50, 1 more point at 60, and then an added point for every 5 more years of age
Cancer is 1 to 7 points
Kidney disease is 1 to 7 points
Diabetes is 1 to 5 points
There are other points (honestly, I didn't remember all of them).

It would be very dire to get down to kicking people out of the hospital at 4 points. Before then they send people who can care for themselves home with oxygen and medicine to reduce the workload. My uncle survived, but wasn't expected to, but the hospital supported with everything needed. My cousins just had to help a lot (coronavirus patients are labor intensive).

I think the unvaccinated should get some points. That only seems fair. But not anything automatic. Also, US law requires the patient be stabilized before discharge.

Unfortunately ECMO machines are in short supply. One patient in Arizona died while waiting for an ECMO machine:
https://news.yahoo.com/clock-ticking-ar ... 40962.html
https://www.stripes.com/covid/2021-12-2 ... 90294.html

From my doctor friends, ECMO is almost guaranteed with multiple infections with Covid19. Long time on the machines. Here is an example of a young person on ECMO for 65 days:
https://www.newindianexpress.com/good-n ... 99474.html

This link says 9 of 10 in ICU in London unvaccinated:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/health/1711069 ... sive-care/

Well, that means most of those competing for ECMO will be unvaccinated. I'd like to just avoid that competition.

Lightsaber

It have been a while ago that I read Japan have been trying to lower hospitalization rate, thus the burden on hospital system, by offering coronavirus pills to mild/asymptomatic patients, especially at-risk groups and unvaccinated groups, hoping that doing so will lower their chance of being hospitalized.

Francoflier wrote:

Well, the idea is not for it to be a threat, but simply a way for them to pay for what they are costing society in quite a literal way. They've got me jaded enough that I don't care that they are dying by the hundreds in ICUs, I just don't want to be paying for it.

Aesma wrote:

c933103 : these pills are quite rare and expensive (in fact I don't think they're available yet, there is remdesivir though but it's not a pill), the idea is to give them early, to people who are most at risk of faring badly : old, comorbidities, unvaccinated...

c933103 wrote:

Aesma wrote:

c933103 : these pills are quite rare and expensive (in fact I don't think they're available yet, there is remdesivir though but it's not a pill), the idea is to give them early, to people who are most at risk of faring badly : old, comorbidities, unvaccinated...

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/202111 ... 21000.html
What I read a while ago was the preventive administration of antibody cocktail to those who range from moderate to mild, and then also those who are still asymptomatic, or just close contact of positive patients, to reduce their chance of becoming severe. Yes those aren't pill form either
.... Given some regions in other developed countries are now haveing difficulty to secure enough antibody treatment to just those who are severe, I guess such preventive measure to reduce severe case hospitalization is not logistically possible in those places...

lightsaber wrote:

My favorite dashboard just added more detail:
https://health.mesacounty.us/covid19/datadashboard/

92.5% of currently hospitalized patients are unvaccinated.
85% of hospital admissions were unvaccinated

In other words, the bulk of the bad, long term, hospital stays are unvaccinated. Fascinating.

Oh well, everyone has become set in their opinion. At this point, except for children who haven't been given the opportunity for a vaccine, everyone who will get vaccinated is vaccinated.

Lightsaber

art wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

My favorite dashboard just added more detail:
https://health.mesacounty.us/covid19/datadashboard/

92.5% of currently hospitalized patients are unvaccinated.
85% of hospital admissions were unvaccinated

In other words, the bulk of the bad, long term, hospital stays are unvaccinated. Fascinating.

Oh well, everyone has become set in their opinion. At this point, except for children who haven't been given the opportunity for a vaccine, everyone who will get vaccinated is vaccinated.

Lightsaber

USA is 60ish% per cent vaccinated? Roll on everyone gets infected by a fairly benign version of COVID-19. Vaccinated people will likely not become very sick; unvaccinated people will be likely to become ill... but may stand a better chance of survival medium term/long term than if they miss omicron and are hit by a future, more virulent version.

lightsaber wrote:

art wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

My favorite dashboard just added more detail:
https://health.mesacounty.us/covid19/datadashboard/

92.5% of currently hospitalized patients are unvaccinated.
85% of hospital admissions were unvaccinated

In other words, the bulk of the bad, long term, hospital stays are unvaccinated. Fascinating.

Oh well, everyone has become set in their opinion. At this point, except for children who haven't been given the opportunity for a vaccine, everyone who will get vaccinated is vaccinated.

Lightsaber

USA is 60ish% per cent vaccinated? Roll on everyone gets infected by a fairly benign version of COVID-19. Vaccinated people will likely not become very sick; unvaccinated people will be likely to become ill... but may stand a better chance of survival medium term/long term than if they miss omicron and are hit by a future, more virulent version.

https://www.newscentermaine.com/article ... b8ac777402
"Generally speaking, COVID infection's immunity doesn't last as long as the vaccine and does not lead to as robust immunity as the vaccine, which is why people who've had the infection still need to get vaccinated," she wrote.


We must hope they develop good immunity. However, I was taught in high school health class "hope is not a method."

The few unvaccinated I know who had Omicron all had bad nausea and diarrhea. Nothing life threatening, but I wouldn't want that.

I posted above how everyone can now be boosted 5 months after the last dose and 12+ now qualify. I wish younger kids could be vaccinated. I posted in the non-av covid thread how a few hospital systems are being overloaded:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1468417&p=23110147#p23110147

This has, unfortunately transitioned from a possible problem to a real problem. Most of the US nation is two or three weeks behind the UK and they are 50% boosted. Hospitalizations happen well after infection too. How many weeks after infection is in debate, my opinion is Omicron trails cases by 3 weeks.
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Winter is here.

Lightsaber

c933103 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

art wrote:

USA is 60ish% per cent vaccinated? Roll on everyone gets infected by a fairly benign version of COVID-19. Vaccinated people will likely not become very sick; unvaccinated people will be likely to become ill... but may stand a better chance of survival medium term/long term than if they miss omicron and are hit by a future, more virulent version.

https://www.newscentermaine.com/article ... b8ac777402
"Generally speaking, COVID infection's immunity doesn't last as long as the vaccine and does not lead to as robust immunity as the vaccine, which is why people who've had the infection still need to get vaccinated," she wrote.


We must hope they develop good immunity. However, I was taught in high school health class "hope is not a method."

The few unvaccinated I know who had Omicron all had bad nausea and diarrhea. Nothing life threatening, but I wouldn't want that.

I posted above how everyone can now be boosted 5 months after the last dose and 12+ now qualify. I wish younger kids could be vaccinated. I posted in the non-av covid thread how a few hospital systems are being overloaded:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1468417&p=23110147#p23110147

This has, unfortunately transitioned from a possible problem to a real problem. Most of the US nation is two or three weeks behind the UK and they are 50% boosted. Hospitalizations happen well after infection too. How many weeks after infection is in debate, my opinion is Omicron trails cases by 3 weeks.
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Winter is here.

Lightsaber

If the goal is to keep the antibody level high, then down the road maybe a booster will be needed every ~10 weeks? But is antibody level the only thing that need to be concerned when making booster decisions? Can't it be left to memory T cells to deal with them as we accept the virus is endemic?

c933103 wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

art wrote:

USA is 60ish% per cent vaccinated? Roll on everyone gets infected by a fairly benign version of COVID-19. Vaccinated people will likely not become very sick; unvaccinated people will be likely to become ill... but may stand a better chance of survival medium term/long term than if they miss omicron and are hit by a future, more virulent version.

https://www.newscentermaine.com/article ... b8ac777402
"Generally speaking, COVID infection's immunity doesn't last as long as the vaccine and does not lead to as robust immunity as the vaccine, which is why people who've had the infection still need to get vaccinated," she wrote.


We must hope they develop good immunity. However, I was taught in high school health class "hope is not a method."

The few unvaccinated I know who had Omicron all had bad nausea and diarrhea. Nothing life threatening, but I wouldn't want that.

I posted above how everyone can now be boosted 5 months after the last dose and 12+ now qualify. I wish younger kids could be vaccinated. I posted in the non-av covid thread how a few hospital systems are being overloaded:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1468417&p=23110147#p23110147

This has, unfortunately transitioned from a possible problem to a real problem. Most of the US nation is two or three weeks behind the UK and they are 50% boosted. Hospitalizations happen well after infection too. How many weeks after infection is in debate, my opinion is Omicron trails cases by 3 weeks.
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Winter is here.

Lightsaber

If the goal is to keep the antibody level high, then down the road maybe a booster will be needed every ~10 weeks? But is antibody level the only thing that need to be concerned when making booster decisions? Can't it be left to memory T cells to deal with them as we accept the virus is endemic?

lightsaber wrote:

Oh, it is getting really bad in the hospitals in the UK:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-59866650
[i]At least seven trusts have announced the move in the past week.

Critical incidents are declared when health bosses are concerned they cannot provide priority services, like treatment for cancer or heart disease.
...
Lightsaber

Covid infections have risen to unprecedented levels in recent weeks because of the Omicron variant.

But, as early evidence suggested it would, this variant is causing milder illness, for now at least.

A fall in the proportion of detected cases ending in hospital, shows this. It is now five times lower than it was a year ago.

art wrote:

I am intrigued about vaccination levels.

In England vaccination levels against various diseases are:

Diptheria 90%+
Tetanus 90%+
Polio 90%+
COVID-19 71%+

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resour ... background

Why do so many people decline vaccination against COVID-19?

Is it because whereas nobody talks of polio vaccination involving secret microchips being injected to take control of people, they do where COVID-19 is concerned? It is bizarre that people decline vaccination against a disease that is causing an epidemic yet accept vaccination against other diseases where the case numbers are small.

art wrote:

I am intrigued about vaccination levels.

In England vaccination levels against various diseases are:

Diptheria 90%+
Tetanus 90%+
Polio 90%+
COVID-19 71%+

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resour ... background

Why do so many people decline vaccination against COVID-19?

Is it because whereas nobody talks of polio vaccination involving secret microchips being injected to take control of people, they do where COVID-19 is concerned? It is bizarre that people decline vaccination against a disease that is causing an epidemic yet accept vaccination against other diseases where the case numbers are small.

T4thH wrote:

Just for information. The first long time data regarding the booster vaccination are now availbale. What I have seen, seems to be, that after the booster, the antibody level seems to stay high for around 10 to 11 month. Interestingly it seems, that these, who had no sufficient immune answer after the first two vaccinations, seems all to get an excellent immune answer and antibody level after the booster; this was not expected. The mRNA vaccines provide by far the best answer after the booster vaccination, the Johnson and Johnson just did not work as booster (and also the Chinese one are failing).
The sources/link shall have already be posted here somewhere in this thread? (Else, I can/have to search).

c933103 wrote:

Hong Kong.
Personal Experience.
As I mentioned in the thread a while ago, Hong Kong now have ~70% population vaccinated, but only ~1X% elderly are vaccinated. Hence Hong Kong government have mentioned they will implement vaccine mandate at restaurants and public facilities, hoping to force the elderly getting the vaccine
According to some family members with wide connection with many older population in the city, they apparently decided that it is a good idea for them to get the "most useless one" so as to bypass the vaccine mandate, as they think a weaker vaccine mean lower chance of side effect and thus fewer risk.
Currently there are two vaccines available in Hong Kong, SinoVac's and Pfizer's.

yonahleung wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Hong Kong.
Personal Experience.
As I mentioned in the thread a while ago, Hong Kong now have ~70% population vaccinated, but only ~1X% elderly are vaccinated. Hence Hong Kong government have mentioned they will implement vaccine mandate at restaurants and public facilities, hoping to force the elderly getting the vaccine
According to some family members with wide connection with many older population in the city, they apparently decided that it is a good idea for them to get the "most useless one" so as to bypass the vaccine mandate, as they think a weaker vaccine mean lower chance of side effect and thus fewer risk.
Currently there are two vaccines available in Hong Kong, SinoVac's and Pfizer's.

This is exactly the curse of a successful zero-covid policy. People (very reasonably) perceive an absolute zero risk of getting Covid and as there is a non-zero risk of suffering the side-effects of a vaccine, they do the perfectly rational thing of not getting a vaccine/ getting the most useless vaccine to get on with their lives as the only motivation to get vaccinated is governmental restrictions.
To break out of this cycle the only way out is to open up, the calculation will be wholly different when there are more than 10,000 cases each day.

China’s race to develop its own messenger RNA vaccine has gained greater urgency as Beijing struggles to rein in an outbreak of the Omicron coronavirus variant that is threatening its zero-Covid policy.

....

Progress towards a domestic mRNA vaccine in China has been slow, as the country’s pharmaceutical companies opted initially to use traditional inactivated virus technology in vaccines.

In November, Chinese biotech company Suzhou Abogen Biosciences and its partner Walvax Biotechnology received regulatory approval to test their mRNA vaccine candidate in a booster trial. Their vaccine deploys the same type of technology used in the Moderna and BioNTech/Pfizer jabs, which provide higher levels of protection against the Omicron variant than existing Chinese-made shots.

ThePointblank wrote:

China is now fast tracking development of their own domestic mRNA vaccine, due to issues with efficacy with their domestic inactivated virus vaccines:

https://www.ft.com/content/5213b69e-607 ... 9302eb390d

China’s race to develop its own messenger RNA vaccine has gained greater urgency as Beijing struggles to rein in an outbreak of the Omicron coronavirus variant that is threatening its zero-Covid policy.

....

Progress towards a domestic mRNA vaccine in China has been slow, as the country’s pharmaceutical companies opted initially to use traditional inactivated virus technology in vaccines.

In November, Chinese biotech company Suzhou Abogen Biosciences and its partner Walvax Biotechnology received regulatory approval to test their mRNA vaccine candidate in a booster trial. Their vaccine deploys the same type of technology used in the Moderna and BioNTech/Pfizer jabs, which provide higher levels of protection against the Omicron variant than existing Chinese-made shots.