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MohawkWeekend
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US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:27 am

The European Energy Crisis Is About To Go Global
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-Gene ... lobal.html

Crude Stocks At Cushing Have Dropped By 42% So Far This Year
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/crude-st ... 00300.html

Robust Gasoline Consumption Fuels Record-High U.S. Oil Demand
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/R ... emand.html

In case you haven't been following it, European nat gas prices have skyrocketed recently and a real fear of shortages exists. In the US, nat gas prices are up and storage is down 16 percent from this time last year because the US is exporting record amounts of nat gas due to high worldwide demand.
OPEC has been remarkably united in not increasing production. BP and Shell have bowed to environmental activists and have left Alaska and Eagle Ford shale respectfully. US gasoline, diesel and jet fuel demand is up and is now around $2.20 at the rack - airlines were budgeting below $2.

Here is to hoping we have no ill placed hurricanes, pipeline hack, or a cold winter.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:15 pm

At least this story made the front page of the business section USA Today. If you are bored just Google " European energy crisis"
 
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Aaron747
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:53 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
At least this story made the front page of the business section USA Today. If you are bored just Google " European energy crisis"


I guess for a lot of us energy prices just feels like one of those things the consumer really has zero control over. No point getting into a fuss over them - just plan ahead.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:22 am

You are unfortunately right. My idea of posting was to try and get more people aware that it's policy decisions being made now which are leading us to this. We have groups and politicians actively telling the public that shutting down refineries, pipelines, oil and gas drilling will result in a magical quick and painless transformation to a clean green economy.
And the average American believes that Exxon bought the patent to the 100 mpg carburetor too. There is no free lunch. We were able to drill our way to a strong energy position. That may not be an option in the future.
 
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Aesma
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Sat Sep 25, 2021 11:56 am

I don't use gas, only electricity, the price in France isn't moving. Thanks to nuclear power of course. In fact even though the electricity market has been liberalized, meaning the spot price of electricity is the price of the latest plant that had to be put online (a gas or coal plant), that means the French electricity provider EDF is making more money selling surplus production to neighboring countries, with even less of a need to increase prices for French consumers.

Gas for cars is on the expensive side right now, I don't know if it will last. Time to buy that Tesla I guess. In truth I mostly use a company car and don't pay for the gas. A colleague of mine just ordered his new company car, it will be electric (Peugeot e208).
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Sat Sep 25, 2021 1:18 pm

France's nuclear investment looks good today with the decline in production from the North Sea fields (long term is another question due to waste storage). Our populations are growing and as most of Europe is finding out, renewables aren't ready to replace the fossil fuels. Look at the protests in France when they raised the motor fuel taxes. American's go nuts when gasoline goes over $3. The public doesn't want the change to hurt.

So the politicians and environmentalists figured out that limiting the ability of the firms that produce our existing sources of fossil fuels is a better approach. It's a smart move - everyone hates their utility or the oil companies. But as most of Europe is finding out now , it is going to hurt until renewables are cheaper than $3 gas.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Sat Sep 25, 2021 3:55 pm

With wind and solar effectively setting a cap on how high electricity can go I am expecting electric bills settling on about 7 cents for distribution and 3 cents for production. Nuclear theoretically could be a source - I have my doubts. An unseen thing with those sorts of prices is that the world around a fairly decent life can be lived - some air conditioning (increasingly needed just to live), some transportation (say an old 50 mile range Leaf or some interesting Chinese cars), cooking, entertainment, and most important communication. When what can be electrified is accomplished, then what cannot or is difficult can be 'fueled' by fossil fuels then offset.

The US frequently has excess electric power available - the problems is one of timing, because obviously there are times of shortage. Engineering, grid improvements, and smart metering are available technologies and slowly (too slowly) already being implemented. An interesting anecdote. In the Pacific Northwest dams produce the least power in the winter. I was switching over to a heat pump (with supplemental strip electric heat available) so called the utility engineer and asked if I should switch to using our propane fireplace on the coldest nights. Not at all he said, our contract with Bonneville required our utility to take a certain amount of power throughout the year, and the utility counted on those cold nights using a certain amount of power.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:31 pm

And since this is an airliner fan site, this approach of penalizing producers instead of consumers IMO has the potential to clobber the airline business. The airlines take green washing to a whole new level - e.g. Delta's ad saying that they are the first airline committed to carbon free this and carbon free that by such and such a date. What are they doing instead - buying used 737 that need to run how many years to pay off? Heck Delta has an oil refinery - why aren't they converting that to produce Sustainable Jet Fuel if SJF is going to be the savior the industry claims it will be?

Not just picking on DL - how about these announcements to buy electric aircraft or clean SST's from companies that haven't built anything. Do they think we think that Elon Musk can be cloned? Or is it Holmes and her blood testing machine? If it were so easy.....
 
Dieuwer
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Sat Sep 25, 2021 8:13 pm

Not sure what the problem is. I have a fix rate contract for 100% renewable energy and most of the time I let the car at home and walk to work (30 minutes walk).
 
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c933103
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:28 pm

China have been having natural gas insufficiency in supply over recent winters, and reportedly resulted in death due to Not enough heating
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Sat Sep 25, 2021 9:55 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Not sure what the problem is. I have a fix rate contract for 100% renewable energy and most of the time I let the car at home and walk to work (30 minutes walk).


Except of course its kinda nice to have water and sewage systems that work, food that's grown with fertilizer made from natural gas, heat/AC in public buildings, street and traffic lights too.
Hospitals maybe. Police and safety forces who can get to you in a hurry. And so on and so on.

But other than that, it's all good.
 
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Aesma
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Sat Sep 25, 2021 10:32 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
With wind and solar effectively setting a cap on how high electricity can go I am expecting electric bills settling on about 7 cents for distribution and 3 cents for production.


And how much for storage ?
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:47 pm

This mornings prices pre-trading US from OilPrice.com. Might start hearing more from the US Govt soon - probably about collusion, not supply and demand though. Heating oil price correlates to Aviation fuel.
All Prices
WTI CRUDE • 75.45 +1.47 +1.99%
BRENT CRUDE 79.56 +1.47 +1.88%
NATURAL GAS 5.427 +0.287 +5.58%
HEATING OIL 2.306 +0.039 +1.73%
 
Dieuwer
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Mon Sep 27, 2021 12:58 pm

Aesma wrote:
I don't use gas, only electricity, the price in France isn't moving. Thanks to nuclear power of course. In fact even though the electricity market has been liberalized, meaning the spot price of electricity is the price of the latest plant that had to be put online (a gas or coal plant), that means the French electricity provider EDF is making more money selling surplus production to neighboring countries, with even less of a need to increase prices for French consumers.


It seems to me that France is one of the few sane countries left in Europe with respect to energy policy.
If Germany thinks that they can have their cake and eat it too by shutting down ALL fossil fuel power plants, shutdown nuclear, and stop the Nordstream 2 Pipeline from operating, they will quickly learn what it means to "freeze to death". Not to mention receiving a massive blow to their economy.
 
GDB
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:36 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Aesma wrote:
I don't use gas, only electricity, the price in France isn't moving. Thanks to nuclear power of course. In fact even though the electricity market has been liberalized, meaning the spot price of electricity is the price of the latest plant that had to be put online (a gas or coal plant), that means the French electricity provider EDF is making more money selling surplus production to neighboring countries, with even less of a need to increase prices for French consumers.


It seems to me that France is one of the few sane countries left in Europe with respect to energy policy.
If Germany thinks that they can have their cake and eat it too by shutting down ALL fossil fuel power plants, shutdown nuclear, and stop the Nordstream 2 Pipeline from operating, they will quickly learn what it means to "freeze to death". Not to mention receiving a massive blow to their economy.


I am surprised by the seemingly myopic attitude with Nord Stream, true it would hurt Russia badly if they shut it off so it is not likely they would but far from impossible, it also fails to take into account that while fossil fuel exports are one of the few ways Russia can make its way in the world financially, an authoritarian government like that can contain the economic fall out in a way that a liberal democracy like Germany cannot.

Agreed on France, in the UK it’s like so much else been bedeviled by short terminism though in recent times renewables have become more standard, more reliable, now we need to ditch the vastly expensive plans for Sino-French ones, (EDF look set to buy out the Chinese part, for the one in an advanced state of construction). Adapt the RR Small Modular Reactors in numbers to provide base load and surge demand.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:09 pm

Well the Brit's energy crisis has hit critical mass - food subsidies and no gasoline. Will it migrate to America?
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:33 am

Oil spill offshore of Los Angeles coast has the potential to accelerate California's move away from petroleum. Political pressure may be to shut down off shore oil extraction at least on the West Coast. Might also embolden those who want to shut down other pipelines that run thru sensitive areas (e.g. Line 5 in Michigan).
 
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Aaron747
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:56 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Oil spill offshore of Los Angeles coast has the potential to accelerate California's move away from petroleum. Political pressure may be to shut down off shore oil extraction at least on the West Coast. Might also embolden those who want to shut down other pipelines that run thru sensitive areas (e.g. Line 5 in Michigan).


Not all that unexpected - coastal protection is taken very seriously by most Californians.

If your coastline looked like this, you'd want it protected too. It's one of the first things we want to show most visitors.

Image

San Luis Obispo County, by tripadvisor

Image

Leadbetter Beach, Santa Barbara by TravelGrom
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:48 pm

Nice shots.
California is the second largest consumer of fossil fuels in the US.
And since this is airliners.net, leads the nation in jet fuel consumption too.

I mention that not to say we should drill off shore California. But this State, our Country, and Europe struggles mightily with the transition away from fossil fuels. And no industry struggles more than aviation .
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:14 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Nice shots.
California is the second largest consumer of fossil fuels in the US.
And since this is airliners.net, leads the nation in jet fuel consumption too.

I mention that not to say we should drill off shore California. But this State, our Country, and Europe struggles mightily with the transition away from fossil fuels. And no industry struggles more than aviation .



That would caused by physics and the dreaded “science” in modern life. Our society runs on petroleum and that is near inescapable.
 
Dieuwer
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:20 pm

California could have invested in High Speed Rail (running on renewables) ages ago. But instead they prefer bickering and graft.
 
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casinterest
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:23 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
Nice shots.
California is the second largest consumer of fossil fuels in the US.
And since this is airliners.net, leads the nation in jet fuel consumption too.

I mention that not to say we should drill off shore California. But this State, our Country, and Europe struggles mightily with the transition away from fossil fuels. And no industry struggles more than aviation .



That would caused by physics and the dreaded “science” in modern life. Our society runs on petroleum and that is near inescapable.



The interesting item , if you look into it is that California is the #1 state in terms of populations by a large margin. Texas blows it away in energy consumption.

What should be looked at over time is how we are getting into more and more replacements for Fossil fuels.

Image

https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/mo ... y_2020.pdf

Coal is going away, and yes petroleum and natural gas are still high on the list, we are opening up for more alternatives daily.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Tue Oct 05, 2021 12:47 am

Dieuwer wrote:
California could have invested in High Speed Rail (running on renewables) ages ago. But instead they prefer bickering and graft.


The particulars of routing were always going to be a problem given where political power is concentrated in the state. Californians should have widely backed nuclear power decades ago, but NIMBYs with OTT arguments about earthquake dangers won out on that.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:12 am

Over on Twitter, someone is claiming crude options look like $200/barrel by Dec 2022
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:14 am

Texas and several smaller states consume large amounts of energy per capita because they have many energy intensive industries - Steel, refining, non-ferrous metal production, chemical plants, numerous assembly plants etc.

Texas is 6th highest per capita in industrial energy consumption, California 39th.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:19 am

In spite of what Greta thinks, the transition to a green economy will be painful for America. Someone buying a large truck, farm tractor, gasoline powered SUV, or 8 year old 737-900 is expecting to to run a least 10 more years.

Biden who is pushing the green agenda has also asked OPEC to produce more.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:27 am

MohawkWeekend wrote:
In spite of what Greta thinks, the transition to a green economy will be painful for America. Someone buying a large truck, farm tractor, gasoline powered SUV, or 8 year old 737-900 is expecting to to run a least 10 more years.

Biden who is pushing the green agenda has also asked OPEC to produce more.


You're talking about now versus later. Competent professional people can walk and chew gum at the same time - that's who is largely managing and dealing with these transitional challenges. Innovators in the green energy and engineering spheres are far more focused on solving problems and building PoCs than talking about why things can't be done.
 
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casinterest
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:42 am

Aaron747 wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
In spite of what Greta thinks, the transition to a green economy will be painful for America. Someone buying a large truck, farm tractor, gasoline powered SUV, or 8 year old 737-900 is expecting to to run a least 10 more years.

Biden who is pushing the green agenda has also asked OPEC to produce more.


You're talking about now versus later. Competent professional people can walk and chew gum at the same time - that's who is largely managing and dealing with these transitional challenges. Innovators in the green energy and engineering spheres are far more focused on solving problems and building PoCs than talking about why things can't be done.


There is also the fact that Oil will not end overnight. It is still needed. We don't have all the answers yet on how to get by without it. However as I have seen in my neighborhood, there are more solar panel roofs, more electric cars, more electric lawn equipment, and a bit more space at the local Hardware store for Battery powered equipment. I still also notice Natural gas being installed. But all of these things , in looking forward indicate more items will transition to Alternative Energy. The local power company installs Solar grids now. Solar roofs are being done at companies. It will be painful for many in the Fossil Fuel business for sure, but it will not be painful for America as a whole . Alternative Energy, and Battery storage/transport are a chance for engineers, technicians, and hard workers to excel.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:44 am

casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
In spite of what Greta thinks, the transition to a green economy will be painful for America. Someone buying a large truck, farm tractor, gasoline powered SUV, or 8 year old 737-900 is expecting to to run a least 10 more years.

Biden who is pushing the green agenda has also asked OPEC to produce more.


You're talking about now versus later. Competent professional people can walk and chew gum at the same time - that's who is largely managing and dealing with these transitional challenges. Innovators in the green energy and engineering spheres are far more focused on solving problems and building PoCs than talking about why things can't be done.


There is also the fact that Oil will not end overnight. It is still needed. We don't have all the answers yet on how to get by without it. However as I have seen in my neighborhood, there are more solar panel roofs, more electric cars, more electric lawn equipment, and a bit more space at the local Hardware store for Battery powered equipment. I still also notice Natural gas being installed. But all of these things , in looking forward indicate more items will transition to Alternative Energy. The local power company installs Solar grids now. Solar roofs are being done at companies. It will be painful for many in the Fossil Fuel business for sure, but it will not be painful for America as a whole . Alternative Energy, and Battery storage/transport are a chance for engineers, technicians, and hard workers to excel.


I still don't see the picture being complete without nuclear though. There needs to be more public and scientific pushback against the naysayers who think every plant built will be another Chernobyl or Fukushima.
 
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casinterest
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:51 am

Aaron747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

You're talking about now versus later. Competent professional people can walk and chew gum at the same time - that's who is largely managing and dealing with these transitional challenges. Innovators in the green energy and engineering spheres are far more focused on solving problems and building PoCs than talking about why things can't be done.


There is also the fact that Oil will not end overnight. It is still needed. We don't have all the answers yet on how to get by without it. However as I have seen in my neighborhood, there are more solar panel roofs, more electric cars, more electric lawn equipment, and a bit more space at the local Hardware store for Battery powered equipment. I still also notice Natural gas being installed. But all of these things , in looking forward indicate more items will transition to Alternative Energy. The local power company installs Solar grids now. Solar roofs are being done at companies. It will be painful for many in the Fossil Fuel business for sure, but it will not be painful for America as a whole . Alternative Energy, and Battery storage/transport are a chance for engineers, technicians, and hard workers to excel.


I still don't see the picture being complete without nuclear though. There needs to be more public and scientific pushback against the naysayers who think every plant built will be another Chernobyl or Fukushima.


I imagine we will see more talk of Nuclear again. Even Elon Musk has said that if everyone started driving Electric Cars, the US Grid would need twice the power generation to supply the electricity required.

https://www.barrons.com/amp/articles/te ... 1633202912

That amount of power will need many solutions to get there.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Tue Oct 05, 2021 8:04 am

I offer up the VC Summer nuclear plant and US ethanol as examples that this transition will not be smooth.

But I started this thread because I see a complacency in the near term on the part of consumers and the government. Recessions always follow run ups in energy costs. And folks, energy prices are doing that right now in spades.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:13 pm

I posted this a week ago, today's price in right column
All Prices
WTI CRUDE • 75.45 78.89
BRENT CRUDE 79.56 82.74
NATURAL GAS 5.427 6.17
HEATING OIL 2.306 2.49

China is buying cargoes left and right and OPEC isn't increasing production.
Expect the airlines to address this when they release their 3Q 2021 Earnings
 
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casinterest
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:28 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
I posted this a week ago, today's price in right column
All Prices
WTI CRUDE • 75.45 78.89
BRENT CRUDE 79.56 82.74
NATURAL GAS 5.427 6.17
HEATING OIL 2.306 2.49

China is buying cargoes left and right and OPEC isn't increasing production.
Expect the airlines to address this when they release their 3Q 2021 Earnings


These prices are historically not bad, especially for those of us that were on the site from 2004 -2014, and are actually not that high considering the prepandemic prices.

https://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude- ... tory-chart

OPEC will outwardly bluster that they won't increase production, but member states slowly will as demand goes up, as will the frackers. Money to be made has many fans.

The current prices are actually enough to get fracking moving again.

As for inflation, that is coming from the money supply, not so much from energy issues.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:01 am

Oil and its products has made 2 similar runs - 2008 and 2014. It hasn't been this high since 2014. In those 2 runs , it went over $100 per bbl. Not sure where it will end up this time.

But the demand for oil and gas is continuing to grow. In Europe, natural gas is selling for an equivalent of $195 a barrel (reuters). Since America now exports oil and gas, I expect prices to remain high
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:42 am

Inflation has two main components right now, neither of them is money supply. First is the general supply chain collapse, raw materials, manufacturing, and shipping. Second, and in the US is those sub minimum wage jobs is going up, and most of us don't thing that is a bad thing. Historically, economically advanced economies, starting with Japan in the 1990s, began experiencing deflation - regardless of how much deficit spending they did. Some economists call this generalized deflation the Japanese Disease. Cause are not well understood. Shrinking population is a major suspect, especially of the working age group, those from 15-64 years old.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:34 pm

Two news stories which will impact oil prices -
1) It appears that the Huntington Beach oil spill may have been caused by a ships anchor dragging the pipeline a hundred plus feet out of position. Why is this important? The State of Michigan has been arguing that this scenario could occur in the Straits of Mackinaw which has 2 large pipelines that run underwater. The State ordered the Canadian company to shut down that line earlier this month and they refused, claiming the State doesn't have the authority. This line supplies crude oil to the Canadian and US refineries which provide a substantial percentage of Ontario's and Michigan's energy needs. There is no real immediate replacement for that line and it's oil.
2) Governor Newsom gave an eloquent speech about banning oil drilling off-shore and if I heard him right onshore in California. Considering California will need oil and gas for probably 20 more years, this will be interesting. Never underestimate California's ability to shape policy. And gasoline is already $5 per gallon in San Diego.
 
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casinterest
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:47 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Oil and its products has made 2 similar runs - 2008 and 2014. It hasn't been this high since 2014. In those 2 runs , it went over $100 per bbl. Not sure where it will end up this time.

But the demand for oil and gas is continuing to grow. In Europe, natural gas is selling for an equivalent of $195 a barrel (reuters). Since America now exports oil and gas, I expect prices to remain high



Europe is forecasting a colder than usual winter, while in the US, it is actually looking warmer than normal in the East.

US oil production is still far below what it was in 2019 leading into the pandemic, so there is a bit more leeway in the production pipeline.

https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/production/#oil-tab

The big issue for oil companies is that they really want to see the demand there before they open up. Businesses are still not sending lots of travelers all over, and workers that can are still working from home.

Oil Consumption is still down, but forecast to rise

Image
https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/steo/report/global_oil.php

We will see oil companies opening up production as they see the prices increase as they see the demand there.

They are a bit wary though as well, as some of the consumption may not be as inelastic as it once was with alternative energy and electric vehicle competition.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:39 pm

All I see in the wealthier suburbs around me are black Suburban's with one passenger.
Suburban Sales numbers
2018 60,633
2019 51,928
2020 33,644
2021 71,128
Lexus LX sales
2018 4,753
2019 4,718
2020 4,512
2021 25,261
 
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Aaron747
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:20 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
All I see in the wealthier suburbs around me are black Suburban's with one passenger.
Suburban Sales numbers
2018 60,633
2019 51,928
2020 33,644
2021 71,128
Lexus LX sales
2018 4,753
2019 4,718
2020 4,512
2021 25,261


It’s probably important to remember that even with price spikes, the US enjoys some of the cheapest gas prices relative to GDP/capita than anywhere in the world:

https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/articles/85/
 
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par13del
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:58 pm

A lot of countries tax gas to obtain income and to drive consumer behaviour, example to support public transport, lately promoting a healthy environment has been added to the list.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:47 pm

A release of crude oil from the U.S. emergency reserve is one option the Department of Energy is considering in a bid to tame prices at the gas pump. Another is a ban on oil exports, Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm said, as quoted by the Financial Times. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/ ... t-Ban.html
Can you imagine if they ban nat gas and oil exports now? A reverse oil embargo - who would have thunk it?
We never should have allowed either but that genie is out of the bottle now. It only made the oil companies and traders more money. Think of the energy required to ship US oil out while shipping oil in from 5000 miles away.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:08 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Can you imagine if they ban nat gas and oil exports now? A reverse oil embargo - who would have thunk it?


It will certainly get the attention of the Gulf money grubbers. Riyadh has been way too big for their britches the last two decades, and no POTUS has come close to setting them straight.
 
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Mortyman
Posts: 6005
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Fri Oct 08, 2021 2:53 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
And gasoline is already $5 per gallon in San Diego.


You are lucky :-) Here in Norway it's over 8 USD pr. gallon


https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Norw ... ne_prices/


Norway Gasoline prices, 04-Oct-2021
Norway Gasoline prices
Litre Gallon
NOK 18.470 69.917
USD 2.155 8.158
EUR 1.854 7.018
U.S. Gallon
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:31 pm

Gasoline price depends on crude plus refining costs, variations among countries reflect taxes or subsidies. The price of gasoline in the US today (and most other locations) is about $2.41US. Your government is taking the difference.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/prices.php
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13927
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:15 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Gasoline price depends on crude plus refining costs, variations among countries reflect taxes or subsidies. The price of gasoline in the US today (and most other locations) is about $2.41US. Your government is taking the difference.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/prices.php


The government isn't taking the difference. They are putting it into the roads and infrastructure so you can use the Gas you purchases.
 
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Tugger
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:27 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
And gasoline is already $5 per gallon in San Diego.

This is why I appreciate Costco, I have not paid over $4 per gallon here in San Diego all year! (Then add in the additional 4% discount I get for using my Costco credit card and it gets even better.)

Tugg
 
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Aaron747
Posts: 15978
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:31 pm

casinterest wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Gasoline price depends on crude plus refining costs, variations among countries reflect taxes or subsidies. The price of gasoline in the US today (and most other locations) is about $2.41US. Your government is taking the difference.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/prices.php


The government isn't taking the difference. They are putting it into the roads and infrastructure so you can use the Gas you purchases.


Our government and some of the EU states are doing that. Doesn't explain why Senegalese pay 8x more than us.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 13927
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Fri Oct 08, 2021 4:34 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Gasoline price depends on crude plus refining costs, variations among countries reflect taxes or subsidies. The price of gasoline in the US today (and most other locations) is about $2.41US. Your government is taking the difference.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/prices.php


The government isn't taking the difference. They are putting it into the roads and infrastructure so you can use the Gas you purchases.


Our government and some of the EU states are doing that. Doesn't explain why Senegalese pay 8x more than us.


That is for them. At some point taxes deter use rather than facilitate it. Here in the US, though we have differences between states and counties on the levies that are faced.
 
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Aesma
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:27 pm

par13del wrote:
A lot of countries tax gas to obtain income and to drive consumer behaviour, example to support public transport, lately promoting a healthy environment has been added to the list.


The first reason to do it (and still relevant) is to reduce oil imports, helping the trade balance.
 
MohawkWeekend
Topic Author
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Re: US Energy Supply and Costs - 2022

Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:36 pm

American politicians are scared to death to raise taxes on fuel purchased by the average joe. Probably the quickest way to get voted out.
Cheap gas is a birth right in 48 states but not California and Hawaii.

They are also scared to raise fuel taxes on Jet Fuel which I cannot understand.

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