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Airstud
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CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:19 am

I remember one poster here years ago saying he would never put CITGO gasoline in his car, on account of it's not Top Tier.

Well here I am back in New England for a bit (no CITGO in Minnesota) and I stopped at the CITGO in Seabrook, New Hampshire and the pump said it is Top Tier gasoline.

What does any of this crap mean, anyway? Is it a matter of time, like CITGO had applied for their Top-Tier card years ago and it just finally came through?

(Also, the pumps are not stocked with paper, mail-in application forms for the CITGO credit card, like BP and Phillips66 pumps are. I don't want to apply online; I want I should apply by mail.)
 
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Aesma
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:27 am

Apparently it's Venezuelan gas.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:35 am

Airstud wrote:
What does any of this crap mean, anyway?


Good question, gas = gas. Or are there different standards in the US?
 
LCDFlight
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:15 am

I think the gas business is regional (trucking distance from refineries). As a result, gas stations in a region tend to use the same refinery.
 
jetwet1
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:21 am

Dutchy wrote:
Airstud wrote:
What does any of this crap mean, anyway?


Good question, gas = gas. Or are there different standards in the US?


Yes, there are different standards, it's all down to the number and amount of detergents in the gas.

To be licensed as "Top Tier" the gas has to meet these standards which CITGO does.
 
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WesternDC6B
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:46 am

Dutchy wrote:
Airstud wrote:
What does any of this crap mean, anyway?


Good question, gas = gas. Or are there different standards in the US?

"Top Tier" just indicates the gas has particular additives and methods of refinement that some vehicle manufacturers want in order to keep the fuel systems happy.

As for "gas = gas", not always. I don't know about today, but, when I was a teen in Los Angeles (1960s), the fastest way to destroy sxhaust valves in a Simca 1000 was using Shell gas. If you had a car that used high octane, virtually ANY premium fuel worked fine except Chevron. Your engine would ping like man unless you spent an extra six cents per gallon for their "Custom Supreme". For context, six cents bought a Hershey bar, with a penny left over.
 
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Aesma
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:12 pm

What was a Simca 1000 doing in the US ? I think our "regular" in France is equivalent to the "premium" in the US, and our "premium" is better than that. Due to smaller engines with higher compressions being the norm, not huge engines with low compressions.
 
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WesternDC6B
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:26 pm

Aesma wrote:
What was a Simca 1000 doing in the US ? I think our "regular" in France is equivalent to the "premium" in the US, and our "premium" is better than that. Due to smaller engines with higher compressions being the norm, not huge engines with low compressions.


It was selling reasonably well is wat it was doing. Chrysler brought them over, and at least in Southern California they sold in pretty good quantities. We even got a few of the Bertones. Back in the 50s, the Aronde and the Beauleau (sp?) sold in reasonable numbers.
 
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fr8mech
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:43 pm

Here’s the dirty secret, that we intuitively know is not a secret, but the oil companies/distributors/gas stations don’t want you to “know”; gasoline is a commodity. So long as the gasoline meets the minimum standards for the octane rating posted, it will perform the same as the gasoline from the gas station down the road…with little if any variation.

There are regional blends based on local regulations, but gasoline is gasoline.

Put only the octane rating your engine is designed for in your car.
 
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casinterest
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:47 pm

fr8mech wrote:
Here’s the dirty secret, that we intuitively know is not a secret, but the oil companies/distributors/gas stations don’t want you to “know”; gasoline is a commodity. So long as the gasoline meets the minimum standards for the octane rating posted, it will perform the same as the gasoline from the gas station down the road…with little if any variation.

There are regional blends based on local regulations, but gasoline is gasoline.

Put only the octane rating your engine is designed for in your car.



Anyone that lives on the Colonial pipeline could tell you this :)
 
NIKV69
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:10 pm

Costco up there too was a surprise.
 
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Tugger
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:20 pm

Gotta admit I always thought "Top Tier" gasoline was just marketing really. But I guess it can have an effect, a good one.

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-mai ... tra-price/

Tugg
 
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Tugger
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:21 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
Costco up there too was a surprise.

Costco gas is great (except for the lines during the day), only stuff I get.

Tugg
 
Daysleeper
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:50 pm

fr8mech wrote:
Here’s the dirty secret, that we intuitively know is not a secret, but the oil companies/distributors/gas stations don’t want you to “know”; gasoline is a commodity. So long as the gasoline meets the minimum standards for the octane rating posted, it will perform the same as the gasoline from the gas station down the road…with little if any variation.

There are regional blends based on local regulations, but gasoline is gasoline.



Well, it is and it isn't. Yes, there should be a standard by which it complies to be sold as a fuel but "Gas" or "Petrol" has no definition within chemistry. It is predominantly hexane but is always a blend of distillates whose exact concentrations often depend on the source of the crude feedstock being used at that time. Additives are another big differentiator, they really aren't just marketing and can actually make a big differance to both how well and how long an engine will run.

fr8mech wrote:
Put only the octane rating your engine is designed for in your car.


This is important, many assume a higher octane means more performance - it doesn't at all. It actually defines how much a given fuel can be compressed before ignition. Low octane fuels tend to suffer with pre-ignition in high compression engines causing it to "knock" but the vast majority of road cars do not have an engine anywhere near capable of reaching the compression needed to require high octane. So for the vast majority if a complete waste of money.

PS. Sorry to the original poster, but despite having worked my entire adult life within this industry, I have never actually come across CITGO as a brand - So dunno? But if I should happen upon a sample of it, I know where there is a lab which can test to what tier it belongs :)
 
N1120A
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:43 pm

There's a website that tracks which stations and brands are certified Top Tier. Historic bargain brand ARCO is Top Tier, as is Costco. In reality, some of the cheaper stations that are off brand or branded as a known bargain brand, are getting the same blends, but they can't advertise as Top Tier because they don't pay.
 
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STT757
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:19 pm

Speaking as someone who pumped gas throughout College, Shell station and Gulf stations, Shell is the best gas in my opinion. I usually buy Wawa gas because there are so many of them here in New Jersey, which is just distributed from an independent refinery.

About a month ago I was coming back from Hershey and got gas at a Getty Station, I thought they were all gone. Getty used to be big in New Jersey growing up. I kind of dig Getty:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getty_Oil

The other brand I miss is Hess, while the company still exists I miss their service stations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hess_Corporation

I've also seen Mobil stations making a comeback, not sure who is behind that. Mobil 1 Synthetic oil is the best oil in my opinion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobil

My Grandfather swore by Amoco,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amoco

Other honorable mentions, Texaco and Sunoco. Once upon a time Sunoco used to sell Ultra 94, now Ultra is 93 octane.
 
Airstud
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:46 pm

Daysleeper wrote:
PS. Sorry to the original poster, but despite having worked my entire adult life within this industry, I have never actually come across CITGO as a brand - So dunno? But if I should happen upon a sample of it, I know where there is a lab which can test to what tier it belongs :)


Ahem.
 
NIKV69
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:58 pm

Tugger wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Costco up there too was a surprise.

Costco gas is great (except for the lines during the day), only stuff I get.

Tugg


Where I am in NY during the summer it's hard for me to get there so I just stay on my route home and get gas in town. When I am in Nevada we have Sams and I love their gas sometimes having to fight the long lines as well since it sits on the AZ side of the river and NV gas is so much more expensive.
 
PPVRA
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:11 pm

https://www.toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/

Race Trac is the large brand around my area that’s not on the list.
 
Daysleeper
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:30 pm

Airstud wrote:
Daysleeper wrote:
PS. Sorry to the original poster, but despite having worked my entire adult life within this industry, I have never actually come across CITGO as a brand - So dunno? But if I should happen upon a sample of it, I know where there is a lab which can test to what tier it belongs :)


Ahem.


Heh I feel a little foolish given how much time I have spent in New England. I’m my defence I was usually working, and when you work for a Petro-Chemical company – your fuel card for the pool car is very specific on what stations you can use, So I was never shopping around for gas :) Or on the rare occasion you got an “Adibis” (a division of Chemical side of the company specialising in fuel additives) car then you were not allowed to fill up at all.

I’m curious though, are they in Jersey? I’m going to Newark in November for work. I could certainly ask some of my colleagues in their QA labs what their opinion is.
 
LabQuest
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:38 pm

Am I the only one who's never had "bad gas" in the thousands of times they've filled up? I've never even heard of bad gasoline in the developed world.
 
Daysleeper
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:07 am

LabQuest wrote:
Am I the only one who's never had "bad gas" in the thousands of times they've filled up? I've never even heard of bad gasoline in the developed world.


No, 99% of people and their cars would not be able to tell the difference between brands or even the grades on sale, but for that 1% who can tell it can be important, especially with modern engines using direct HP injection systems. A brand with a bad detergent, or little detergent can cause some very expensive issues by degrading or damaging such systems. I also heard of problems with some of the older anti-foam agents causing issues with newer fuel pumps that use plastic-based seals.

But yeah, for almost everyone just putting in a fuel with a suitable octane rating for the car is enough.
 
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fr8mech
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:41 am

LabQuest wrote:
Am I the only one who's never had "bad gas" in the thousands of times they've filled up? I've never even heard of bad gasoline in the developed world.


Been putting gasoline in my cars since 1985. Been putting it in yard equipment since 1996.

Never had a "bad batch of gas".

I buy my gas where it's the cheapest at the time I need to fill up. Like I said, it's a commodity.
 
M564038
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:26 am

Gas? Brings back old memories of the old days when cars ran on dino-juice! Glad those days are over!
 
M564038
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Fri Oct 01, 2021 4:59 pm

I thought of this thread when I read the monthly statistics for New Car sales in this country:

Pure gas/petrol cars are now down to 3% of sales.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:15 pm

Daysleeper wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Am I the only one who's never had "bad gas" in the thousands of times they've filled up? I've never even heard of bad gasoline in the developed world.


No, 99% of people and their cars would not be able to tell the difference between brands or even the grades on sale, but for that 1% who can tell it can be important, especially with modern engines using direct HP injection systems. A brand with a bad detergent, or little detergent can cause some very expensive issues by degrading or damaging such systems. I also heard of problems with some of the older anti-foam agents causing issues with newer fuel pumps that use plastic-based seals.

But yeah, for almost everyone just putting in a fuel with a suitable octane rating for the car is enough.


I have a car with a small turbo motor. It can tell if poor quality summer blend gas is being used. The horsepower difference is considerable. IIRC, Ford publishes separate horsepower ratings with and without premium fuel. But modern engine management can adjust timing to operate on different gasoline without damage.
 
jetwet1
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:32 am

Tugger wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
Costco up there too was a surprise.

Costco gas is great (except for the lines during the day), only stuff I get.

Tugg


Costco really isn't its own blend, they just buy in huge amounts from regional suppliers, in Vegas right now it's Chevron, at the start of the year it was Shell.
 
Airstud
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:00 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
Shell


Gross.
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:10 pm

Something like 75% of gasoline in New England comes from the Irving refinery in New Brunswick. Doesn’t matter which branded stations you buy it at, it’s likely from the Irving refinery in Canada. It’s then shipped to local termininals such as Portland, Maine Portsmouth, NH, Revere, Mass. by ship and additives are then added to the gasoline so that it meets the standard of whichever brand it’s being sold as. Even though when it came in on the ship from Irving, it was all the same bulk gasoline even though you’ll be buying it at Citgo, Mobile, Irving,Shell, Valero, etc.
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:34 pm

‘Generic vs. Brand-Name Gas: Are They Different?’

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Business/sto ... 563&page=1

“ When gasoline arrives at regional distribution centers, it's all the same. Different gas station chains then buy the raw fuel and add their own blend of detergents. In the past, there might have been more of a difference between different brands of regular unleaded, but these days the EPA requires that all gas contain a minimum amount of detergent to keep car engines clean.”
 
N1120A
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:51 am

Detergents are an interesting topic. I remember when the GM Vortec engines had major problems with Chevron's Techron additive.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:55 pm

pwm2txlhopper wrote:
Something like 75% of gasoline in New England comes from the Irving refinery in New Brunswick. Doesn’t matter which branded stations you buy it at, it’s likely from the Irving refinery in Canada. It’s then shipped to local termininals such as Portland, Maine Portsmouth, NH, Revere, Mass. by ship and additives are then added to the gasoline so that it meets the standard of whichever brand it’s being sold as. Even though when it came in on the ship from Irving, it was all the same bulk gasoline even though you’ll be buying it at Citgo, Mobile, Irving,Shell, Valero, etc.


Based on actual experience, that’s not true. I’ve used Irving branded gas in Maine and it clearly didn’t have the posted octane—lots of knocking under load. Next day, after returning from KPWM, near empty tank, Shell regular performed just fine, no knocking at all. My wife refuses to use Irving “crap gas”.
 
B777LRF
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:13 am

Can someone please explain why a liquid is referred to as "gas", and if petrol is gas, what is gas (aerosol) then called?
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:36 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
pwm2txlhopper wrote:
Something like 75% of gasoline in New England comes from the Irving refinery in New Brunswick. Doesn’t matter which branded stations you buy it at, it’s likely from the Irving refinery in Canada. It’s then shipped to local termininals such as Portland, Maine Portsmouth, NH, Revere, Mass. by ship and additives are then added to the gasoline so that it meets the standard of whichever brand it’s being sold as. Even though when it came in on the ship from Irving, it was all the same bulk gasoline even though you’ll be buying it at Citgo, Mobile, Irving,Shell, Valero, etc.


Based on actual experience, that’s not true. I’ve used Irving branded gas in Maine and it clearly didn’t have the posted octane—lots of knocking under load. Next day, after returning from KPWM, near empty tank, Shell regular performed just fine, no knocking at all. My wife refuses to use Irving “crap gas”.


We have no Shell branded gasoline in Maine. It all comes in as bulk gasoline to the Portland terminal and then Shell, Irving, Mobile, Valero, etc. required additives are added to meet that brands standards before being delivered to a local station which is paying to use the Shell name, or whichever brands name it’s being sold as. Shell has no corporate owned stores in Maine. Just local gas stations paying to use the Shell name. Same with all the other brands. It’s all the same gas when it comes in on the Tanker ships to Portland Harbors gasoline terminal.

Perhaps your gasoline was contaminated with water? These days, even if you have a higher end car suggested to burn 93 Octane, 87 will work fine. I have a turbocharged Volvo and notice almost no difference whether I use to 93 or 87, and doesn’t matter which brand either.

Branded vs Unbranded bulk gasoline


https://kendrickoil.com/branding/the-di ... nded-fuel/


https://www.pressherald.com/2018/10/09/ ... nery-fire/

“The Canadian facility is the largest supplier of Maine’s gasoline, diesel fuel and heating oil”

“The Irving doesn’t publicly release shipping information, but has in the past estimated that three out of five vehicles in Boston run on Irving gasoline. Five years ago, the New England Petroleum Council said 70 percent of Maine’s gasoline comes from the Saint John refinery, he New Brunswick Irving facility supplies the majority of the state's gas and heating oil.”

“ Irving’s Saint John refinery produces 320,000 barrels a day of gasoline, heating oil and jet fuel, exporting half of it to the Northeast through terminals that include Searsport, Portland and Portsmouth, New Hampshire.”
Last edited by pwm2txlhopper on Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
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Tugger
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Sat Oct 09, 2021 4:55 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Can someone please explain why a liquid is referred to as "gas", and if petrol is gas, what is gas (aerosol) then called?

Because the liquid is actually "gasoline" and people have just shortened it to gas for the sake of daily use.

Tugg
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Sat Oct 09, 2021 11:00 pm

pwm2txlhopper wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
pwm2txlhopper wrote:
Something like 75% of gasoline in New England comes from the Irving refinery in New Brunswick. Doesn’t matter which branded stations you buy it at, it’s likely from the Irving refinery in Canada. It’s then shipped to local termininals such as Portland, Maine Portsmouth, NH, Revere, Mass. by ship and additives are then added to the gasoline so that it meets the standard of whichever brand it’s being sold as. Even though when it came in on the ship from Irving, it was all the same bulk gasoline even though you’ll be buying it at Citgo, Mobile, Irving,Shell, Valero, etc.


Based on actual experience, that’s not true. I’ve used Irving branded gas in Maine and it clearly didn’t have the posted octane—lots of knocking under load. Next day, after returning from KPWM, near empty tank, Shell regular performed just fine, no knocking at all. My wife refuses to use Irving “crap gas”.


We have no Shell branded gasoline in Maine. It all comes in as bulk gasoline to the Portland terminal and then Shell, Irving, Mobile, Valero, etc. required additives are added to meet that brands standards before being delivered to a local station which is paying to use the Shell name, or whichever brands name it’s being sold as. Shell has no corporate owned stores in Maine. Just local gas stations paying to use the Shell name. Same with all the other brands. It’s all the same gas when it comes in on the Tanker ships to Portland Harbors gasoline terminal.

Perhaps your gasoline was contaminated with water? These days, even if you have a higher end car suggested to burn 93 Octane, 87 will work fine. I have a turbocharged Volvo and notice almost no difference whether I use to 93 or 87, and doesn’t matter which brand either.

Branded vs Unbranded bulk gasoline


https://kendrickoil.com/branding/the-di ... nded-fuel/


https://www.pressherald.com/2018/10/09/ ... nery-fire/

“The Canadian facility is the largest supplier of Maine’s gasoline, diesel fuel and heating oil”

“The Irving doesn’t publicly release shipping information, but has in the past estimated that three out of five vehicles in Boston run on Irving gasoline. Five years ago, the New England Petroleum Council said 70 percent of Maine’s gasoline comes from the Saint John refinery, he New Brunswick Irving facility supplies the majority of the state's gas and heating oil.”

“ Irving’s Saint John refinery produces 320,000 barrels a day of gasoline, heating oil and jet fuel, exporting half of it to the Northeast through terminals that include Searsport, Portland and Portsmouth, New Hampshire.”


Maybe, but multiple times Irving gas purchased in Maine failed to perform without knocking and noticeable power loss while Shell gas purchased in Mass worked fine and as expected. We’d do this, in years past, two or three times a year.
 
IADCA
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:23 am

LCDFlight wrote:
I think the gas business is regional (trucking distance from refineries). As a result, gas stations in a region tend to use the same refinery.


No. There are long-distance refined products pipelines and also ship-based transport. Trucks are generally only hauling gasoline from the one of the nearest fuel terminals to the retail side.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Maybe, but multiple times Irving gas purchased in Maine failed to perform without knocking and noticeable power loss while Shell gas purchased in Mass worked fine and as expected. We’d do this, in years past, two or three times a year.


Believe it or not, there's likely to be a big difference in where the fuel's coming from in Massachusetts versus Maine. For problems like the ones you're noting, the consumer-facing brand isn't as important as which refinery and terminal it's coming from. Shipments that come from the terminals in Boston will have much more diverse feedstock than stuff coming through Portland (or even Portsmouth). That's more likely your issue than the consumer brand.
 
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WesternDC6B
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Sun Oct 10, 2021 11:49 am

"Maybe, but multiple times Irving gas purchased in Maine failed to perform without knocking and noticeable power loss while Shell gas purchased in Mass worked fine and as expected. We’d do this, in years past, two or three times a year."

This can be explained - at least in some cases - as follows. Yes. Most gasoline sold is bought in bulk, then goes to Chevron, Irving, Shell, Marathon, Exxon-Mobil, and the pumps at your local Food City or Costco. The difference is the additive packages.

For the sake of conversation, I will make up fake names for the retailers. Ajax Oil has a particular set of standards for their fuel. They then get a particular blend of detergents and additives. Acme Petroleum has another, so their package of detergents and additives are used. The same for Stop-N-Go, Fred's, and whoever. That is why that "same bulk gas" may not be good when bought at Irving, but IS good at another station.

Here is a rather drastic example of different additive packages causing issues. My brother was part owner of a small import car showroom in the Los Angeles area back in the 1960s. They sold - among other things - the Simca 1000 cars. Some were coming in with badly fried exhaust valves, others were running reliably mile after mile after mile. In surveying the owners, the valve-fryers were running Shell regular. The reliable cars were fueled with every other brand you could think of. Chevron, Richfield, Flying A, Mobil, others. At that time, the oil companies were experimenting with all manner of additive packages for pollution mitigation due to the smog conditions in the Los Angeles Basin.
 
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Tugger
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:52 pm

GF, from you post in the F104 thread I found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZMKcbC0rTs

Now I am not one to use fuel additives often but I might actually now if I feel something is off.

Tugg
 
Airstud
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:13 pm

Airstud wrote:
Also, the pumps are not stocked with paper, mail-in application forms for the CITGO credit card, like BP and Phillips66 pumps are. I don't want to apply online; I want I should apply by mail.


For all the talk of additives and detergents n stuff, no one has contributated anything to this component of the discussion.

It ought to go without saying that the pumps should have displays stocked with paper application forms, as these would occasion trips to architecturally significant post offices.

But furthermore, don't the franchisees have an incentive for this? Isn't their "site ID" or something like that stamped on the paper app forms so that when a new account gets opened, the franchisee gets a little sugar for being the place that spurred the app?

I had thought that there was a incentive for that.
: /
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:40 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
pwm2txlhopper wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Based on actual experience, that’s not true. I’ve used Irving branded gas in Maine and it clearly didn’t have the posted octane—lots of knocking under load. Next day, after returning from KPWM, near empty tank, Shell regular performed just fine, no knocking at all. My wife refuses to use Irving “crap gas”.


We have no Shell branded gasoline in Maine. It all comes in as bulk gasoline to the Portland terminal and then Shell, Irving, Mobile, Valero, etc. required additives are added to meet that brands standards before being delivered to a local station which is paying to use the Shell name, or whichever brands name it’s being sold as. Shell has no corporate owned stores in Maine. Just local gas stations paying to use the Shell name. Same with all the other brands. It’s all the same gas when it comes in on the Tanker ships to Portland Harbors gasoline terminal.

Perhaps your gasoline was contaminated with water? These days, even if you have a higher end car suggested to burn 93 Octane, 87 will work fine. I have a turbocharged Volvo and notice almost no difference whether I use to 93 or 87, and doesn’t matter which brand either.

Branded vs Unbranded bulk gasoline


https://kendrickoil.com/branding/the-di ... nded-fuel/


https://www.pressherald.com/2018/10/09/ ... nery-fire/

“The Canadian facility is the largest supplier of Maine’s gasoline, diesel fuel and heating oil”

“The Irving doesn’t publicly release shipping information, but has in the past estimated that three out of five vehicles in Boston run on Irving gasoline. Five years ago, the New England Petroleum Council said 70 percent of Maine’s gasoline comes from the Saint John refinery, he New Brunswick Irving facility supplies the majority of the state's gas and heating oil.”

“ Irving’s Saint John refinery produces 320,000 barrels a day of gasoline, heating oil and jet fuel, exporting half of it to the Northeast through terminals that include Searsport, Portland and Portsmouth, New Hampshire.”


Maybe, but multiple times Irving gas purchased in Maine failed to perform without knocking and noticeable power loss while Shell gas purchased in Mass worked fine and as expected. We’d do this, in years past, two or three times a year.



Sorry this is late reply, I’ve been out of town. There is real Shell brand gas in Boston. There are pipelines and refineries to the South that feed Boston and NYC. Any Shell sold in Maine is just bulk gas with Shell mandated additives required to be sold under Shell brand with somebody paying Shell to use their logo on their gas station, It all came in on the same Irving Ship from the Irving refinery as bulk unbranded gas to the Portland Harbors terminals. (Boston and NYC get more gas from New Jersey and Philly refineries, pipelines from the gulf) Maine’s gasol8ne comes from Irving refinery for the most part. Regardless which logo a local station is paying to sell gas under that brand. Valero, unbranded, Mobile, Shell, Citgo, etc. It all was refined by Irving if you’re buying it in northern New England.
 
cairns
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:12 pm

Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:51 pm

As for "gas = gas", not always. I don't know about today, but, when I was a teen in Los Angeles (1960s), the fastest way to destroy sxhaust valves in a Simca 1000 was using Shell gas.

Damn dude. My first car was a Simca 1000. Ugly as sin but it got me there.
 
Airstud
Topic Author
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:47 am

cairns wrote:
As for "gas = gas", not always. I don't know about today, but, when I was a teen in Los Angeles (1960s), the fastest way to destroy exhaust valves in a Simca 1000 was using Shell gas.


It's also a good way to destroy your soul. Shell Oil is the evilest corporation on the planet.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Mon Nov 01, 2021 2:19 am

Airstud wrote:
I remember one poster here years ago saying he would never put CITGO gasoline in his car, on account of it's not Top Tier.

Well here I am back in New England for a bit (no CITGO in Minnesota) and I stopped at the CITGO in Seabrook, New Hampshire and the pump said it is Top Tier gasoline.

What does any of this crap mean, anyway? Is it a matter of time, like CITGO had applied for their Top-Tier card years ago and it just finally came through?

(Also, the pumps are not stocked with paper, mail-in application forms for the CITGO credit card, like BP and Phillips66 pumps are. I don't want to apply online; I want I should apply by mail.)



I wouldn't put it in my car, because it's Venezuelan. The Venezuelan government threatened to expropriate the property of foreign oil companies in Venezuela. The US government counter threatened to allow US companies to take over CITGO assets including their refineries. It turns out the Venezuelans need their overseas refineries a lot more. Venezuelan crude is rather sour (has high sulphur content). CITGO refineries have lots of expensive equipment to properly refine sour crude. The problem is that the refineries could just as easily refine sweeter crude from elsewhere. The Venezuelan government backed down.
 
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DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2718
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: CITGO is Top Tier gasoline?

Mon Nov 01, 2021 5:37 am

I drove an older car awhile back, and I wanted to put the cheapest Regular Unleaded gas I could find in it. But a lot of gas I put in the car, made the old car knock. But Shell id not make the car knock, so I have stuck with Shell ever since.

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