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Toenga
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:56 am

Kent350787 wrote:
We also saw in Australia that the delta strain is so infectious that contact tracing finds it extremely difficult to catch up when it falls behind, even fomr a zero caseload starting point. The Victorian outbreak started via a superspreader event in NSW, where the householders failed to advise tracers for two days after the outbreak was discovered that the grandfather had attended (quite legally) from Melbourne and returned home.

Sydney's outbreak continues to decline, but remains stubbornly over 150 new cases a day. For most of the last week, over half of new cases have been from outside Sydney, even though only around 20% of the state population is outside Sydney.


We are waiting, and waiting and waiting...... for our current vaccination effort to replicate the effects that high vaccination rates have had in progress of the outbreak firstly in Sydney, and now less convincingly in Melbourne.
In Auckland where the vast majority of the cases are current vaccination rates for 12+ are 92% 1st dose 83% 2nd dose which by my reckoning is about the same level as when things peaked in Sydney, and ahead of when Melbourne peaked.
The better Sydney result may be down to better targeting of the vaccination program there, concentrating on the most vulnerable area first, where here vulnerable South Auckland has only just broken 90% first dose, whereas the more affluent Central area has surpassed 95% first dosed.and 87% second.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:00 am

November 3, 2021, San Diego, County Board of Supervisors meeting. Dr. Scott Youngblood MD discusses vaccine efficacy. His presentation is unique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD0nwFHJPuw
 
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Aaron747
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:31 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
November 3, 2021, San Diego, County Board of Supervisors meeting. Dr. Scott Youngblood MD discusses vaccine efficacy. His presentation is unique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hD0nwFHJPuw


Dr. Youngblood is not an immunologist - he specializes in orthopedic surgery. That was a purely political presentation. Scientific presentations do not use emotional loading of language and terms like 'nonsensical' on slides. Also his claim that the spike proteins generated by the vaccines are 'toxic' is absurd and has been roundly debunked.

https://www.aap.com.au/factcheck/toxic- ... ine-study/

https://doctor.webmd.com/doctor/scot-yo ... f-overview

Efficacy is born out by the percentage of unvaccinated persons comprising serious hospitalizations, longitudinal data from Israel, the UK, etc. and cohort studies such as NEJM's evaluation of vaccinated healthcare worker families in the UK:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2106757
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:31 pm

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/dd9ef ... d561a3b297
Keidanren, Japan's largest business association, urge government to review work from home policy. They claim there are no indication that amount of population going outdoor have any link with the virus reproduction number, urge the government review its policy from the perspective of science.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:42 pm

c933103 wrote:
https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/dd9eff9e1bdb231b1ea90944e85986d561a3b297
Keidanren, Japan's largest business association, urge government to review work from home policy. They claim there are no indication that amount of population going outdoor have any link with the virus reproduction number, urge the government review its policy from the perspective of science.


This will be very unpopular, especially in the Kanto and Kansai areas. People are really liking the hybrid model where they only come to the office 1-2x a week, and don't have to stay for hours after 5 pm to satisfy the ego of their boss.
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:08 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
c933103 wrote:
https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/dd9eff9e1bdb231b1ea90944e85986d561a3b297
Keidanren, Japan's largest business association, urge government to review work from home policy. They claim there are no indication that amount of population going outdoor have any link with the virus reproduction number, urge the government review its policy from the perspective of science.


This will be very unpopular, especially in the Kanto and Kansai areas. People are really liking the hybrid model where they only come to the office 1-2x a week, and don't have to stay for hours after 5 pm to satisfy the ego of their boss.

But I think data shows that even at the peak of pandemic those Japanese companies still only manages to get 30% workforce to work from home, as opposed to the government's 70% target, and there are also survey indicating there are much higher portion of people feeling anxious of work from home than other countries due to lack of face to face communication and confirmation
 
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casinterest
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 08, 2021 6:42 pm

In a sad political note, the death rate in "red" counties is over 3 times that in "blue" counties in the US since the vaccine came out.

https://news.yahoo.com/red-america-now- ... 40335.html

Residents of heavily Trump counties were more than three times likelier to die from COVID in October than those in heavily Biden countries — 25 per 100,000 versus 7.8 per 100,000 — Leonhardt reports. "Some conservative writers have tried to claim that the gap may stem from regional differences in weather or age, but those arguments fall apart under scrutiny." In fact, he argues, the "straightforward" explanation is that "the vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing severe COVID, and almost 40 percent of Republican adults remain unvaccinated, compared with about 10 percent of Democratic adults."
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:27 pm

https://www.baha.com/Regenerons-drug-re ... internal=1
>Regeneron's drug reduces COVID risk by 81.6% - study
Its effect appears to last quite a long times and also work on immunosuppressed people.
Probably also helpful to those who're avoiding the vaccination due to the needle.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:38 pm

Colorado discussing going to crisis of care:
https://coloradosun.com/2021/11/09/colo ... are-covid/

This is officially stating the hospitals are overwhelmed. While services will be provided, it will be at a reduced service level. My relative's hospital has asked for this as normally they are the overflow center, designed to massively surge capacity in a crisis. However, too many staff are burned out or have coronavirus sniffles (breakthrough cases not of concern, but that prohibits them from working in a hospital).

Colorado has hospitalized 2,000 kids with coronavirus and the vaccine trials were 100% effective stopping kids from being hospitalized (no severe cases):
https://www.rmpbs.org/blogs/news/childr ... o-5-to-11/

Although 11,000 of 480,000 is a drop in the bucket (2.2% started):
https://denver.cbslocal.com/video/61555 ... ccine/?amp
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Wed Nov 10, 2021 3:05 am

They have gone to crisis standards of care, including allowances to ration care and all adults now qualify for the booster:

https://www.greeleytribune.com/2021/11/ ... ility/amp/

Lightsaber
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:45 am

Saw News Flash saying, as Hong Kong government remove New Zealand from list of Low Risk countries, there will be no countries in the world being considered low risk by Hong Kong government, and as a result all inbound travelers even if vaccinated need to be quarantine 14 days, other than travelers from China.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:26 pm

Mesa county Colorado is publicly noting they are diverting patients and hospitals are under surge plans:
https://health.mesacounty.us/covid19/datadashboard/

This means reduced staffing per patient that always has worse outcomes. Apparently, the number of parents getting "sniffles covid" is increasing. Unfortunately, that means once again holiday plans are scrapped for medical staff. I wish more people would realize the impact they have on others.

Lightsaber
 
Kent350787
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:06 pm

In NSW, Australia, daily new cases seem to have plateaued in the 200-300 per day range. Victoria is stubbornly around the 1000 cases per day mark. These states make up approx. 60% of the national population. A quirk in NSW is that around half of the cases across the last week are from outside Sydney, even though less than 20% of the population lives there.

But, while ther are new cases daily, hospitalisations have been falling in both states for several weeks. NSW is now 94% of 16+ population first dose, 90% second dose, and Vcitoria will hit simlar figures next week. 12-15yo are now around 70% fully vaxxed and continuing to increase.

High vax rates appear to have an impact.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:09 pm

NFL stepping up testing of players and family.

Did I read that right that all family and friends must be tested before visiting players (NFL setting up sites for testing)?

Also two days of extra testing for players. That should help. In particular since the days are back to back.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nf ... NewsSearch
 
flyguy89
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:14 pm

Pretty dizzying case numbers coming in from the Netherlands, Czech Republic, and Belgium…so far the vaccines seem to be doing a good job suppressing deaths but anyone know how hospitalizations are holding up there?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:10 pm

Estimate that a million people have lost their sense of smell due to Covid19.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... NewsSearch

I care as my sense of smell was greatly reduced by Covid19, but I do not count as part of the million as I kept most of smell and taste. I had a reduced sense for both.

Both are coming back and I credit a brutal diet my doctor put me on to see if it helps.
1. No alcohol
2. Very low fat
3. Low sugar/carbs, but do not go so low to go into Ketosis
4. High on a variety of veggies

I've cheated ever few weeks and I'm amazed how foods I couldn't taste before are wonderful again, but not as wonderful as before.

My doctor noted verbally weight loss is important.
Some success if you lose 5% of weight (I agree!)
More successful if you lose 10% of your weight
Even higher success if you can lose 20% of your weight (err... thankfully I cannot lose that much).

Lightsaber
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Thu Nov 18, 2021 6:46 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Estimate that a million people have lost their sense of smell due to Covid19.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... NewsSearch

And that's only in the US
 
stratosphere
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:03 pm

casinterest wrote:
In a sad political note, the death rate in "red" counties is over 3 times that in "blue" counties in the US since the vaccine came out.

https://news.yahoo.com/red-america-now- ... 40335.html

Residents of heavily Trump counties were more than three times likelier to die from COVID in October than those in heavily Biden countries — 25 per 100,000 versus 7.8 per 100,000 — Leonhardt reports. "Some conservative writers have tried to claim that the gap may stem from regional differences in weather or age, but those arguments fall apart under scrutiny." In fact, he argues, the "straightforward" explanation is that "the vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing severe COVID, and almost 40 percent of Republican adults remain unvaccinated, compared with about 10 percent of Democratic adults."


Why don't you stop pushing that narrative. I have been watching this and this virus rises and falls in every state despite mitigation measures. Every state has spikes right now the northern states are in a spike and southern states are falling. Over the pond in Amsterdam Covid and hospitalizations are exploding despite 85% of the country vaccinated...Now Fauci is pushing the booster for everyone because hospitalizations in this country are rising for VACCINATED people. .So what now? We have to boost every 6 months? I don't really think pumping vaccines into our bodies every 6 months is a good idea. Bottom line is these vaccines at the very least have a short duration and in my opinion are not providing the robust protections that were sold to us at the beginning. Lets stop forcing a less than effective new vaccine on the general public and start really going gangbusters on therapeutics and getting them into people early at the first signs of infection and also keeping our distances from others and yes maybe a mask in crowded venues and even though I hate it keep it on during flights and in airports.
 
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casinterest
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:28 pm

stratosphere wrote:
casinterest wrote:
In a sad political note, the death rate in "red" counties is over 3 times that in "blue" counties in the US since the vaccine came out.

https://news.yahoo.com/red-america-now- ... 40335.html

Residents of heavily Trump counties were more than three times likelier to die from COVID in October than those in heavily Biden countries — 25 per 100,000 versus 7.8 per 100,000 — Leonhardt reports. "Some conservative writers have tried to claim that the gap may stem from regional differences in weather or age, but those arguments fall apart under scrutiny." In fact, he argues, the "straightforward" explanation is that "the vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing severe COVID, and almost 40 percent of Republican adults remain unvaccinated, compared with about 10 percent of Democratic adults."


Why don't you stop pushing that narrative. I have been watching this and this virus rises and falls in every state despite mitigation measures. Every state has spikes right now the northern states are in a spike and southern states are falling. Over the pond in Amsterdam Covid and hospitalizations are exploding despite 85% of the country vaccinated...Now Fauci is pushing the booster for everyone because hospitalizations in this country are rising for VACCINATED people. .So what now? We have to boost every 6 months? I don't really think pumping vaccines into our bodies every 6 months is a good idea. Bottom line is these vaccines at the very least have a short duration and in my opinion are not providing the robust protections that were sold to us at the beginning. Lets stop forcing a less than effective new vaccine on the general public and start really going gangbusters on therapeutics and getting them into people early at the first signs of infection and also keeping our distances from others and yes maybe a mask in crowded venues and even though I hate it keep it on during flights and in airports.


What narrative. I posted real facts and data Something that is eluding you.

Let's start with the Netherlands

https://nltimes.nl/2021/10/26/covid-inf ... ths-rising

About one in five Dutch people aged 12 years and older have not been vaccinated, or have not yet been fully vaccinated. But, according to the RIVM, they constitute more than half of all positive tests.


So if 80% of the population is vaccinated, but they make up less than half of the folks in the ER, yet 20% of the unvaccinated make up more than half in the ER. You just told me that the vaccines are well over 80% effective.


As for booster shots.

Do we boost the flu shot that is far less deadly? Yes we do. once a year, and specifically in the fall it is recommended.

We have to force the vaccine on the uneducated and math challenged because at the end of the day they are killing themselves.

But now that the vaccines are available widely for kids, I am fully ready to give a 10-12 week window where we finally kick off the mask mandates, raise insurance prices on the unvaccinated, and see where the chips fall.
 
Zeppi
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:04 pm

casinterest wrote:
We have to force the vaccine on the uneducated and math challenged because at the end of the day they are killing themselves.


I fail to see why that would be a bad thing. Darwin would be so proud.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:27 am

Zeppi wrote:
casinterest wrote:
We have to force the vaccine on the uneducated and math challenged because at the end of the day they are killing themselves.


I fail to see why that would be a bad thing. Darwin would be so proud.


I don't disagree...
Covid is turning into a crisis mostly for the unvaccinated.
Why should we care about them when they've made their own choice?
It is indeed a rather striking example of natural selection.

It's just that the medical system needs to treat them for what they are and stop spending too many resources and exhausted staff on them.
(I know, I know... ethics)
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:56 am

Francoflier wrote:
Zeppi wrote:
casinterest wrote:
We have to force the vaccine on the uneducated and math challenged because at the end of the day they are killing themselves.


I fail to see why that would be a bad thing. Darwin would be so proud.


I don't disagree...
Covid is turning into a crisis mostly for the unvaccinated.
Why should we care about them when they've made their own choice?
It is indeed a rather striking example of natural selection.

It's just that the medical system needs to treat them for what they are and stop spending too many resources and exhausted staff on them.
(I know, I know... ethics)

This has become a crisis for the unboosted, unvaccinated and the 3% of the population who cannot build immunity (cancer patients, very elderly, HIV, kidney patients).

The medical staff are so past burnout. I predict the system is going to break. This is just too much. When is the question.

Note forcing nurses to be vaccinated stops the #1 source of hospital transfer, so that actually seems to reduce the workload per the coronavirus doctors I know.

Note: I am going out more. Every adult I interact with is boosted, one kid fully vaccinated, one with one jab, but my reading tells me one dose probably is (temporarily) enough, as long as I still wear a mask.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/16/young-k ... -safe.html

7% to 8% of kids have symptoms for over 12 weeks?!? Holy cow!

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/cov ... -questions

Lightsaber
 
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casinterest
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:27 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
Zeppi wrote:

I fail to see why that would be a bad thing. Darwin would be so proud.


I don't disagree...
Covid is turning into a crisis mostly for the unvaccinated.
Why should we care about them when they've made their own choice?
It is indeed a rather striking example of natural selection.

It's just that the medical system needs to treat them for what they are and stop spending too many resources and exhausted staff on them.
(I know, I know... ethics)

This has become a crisis for the unboosted, unvaccinated and the 3% of the population who cannot build immunity (cancer patients, very elderly, HIV, kidney patients).

The medical staff are so past burnout. I predict the system is going to break. This is just too much. When is the question.

Note forcing nurses to be vaccinated stops the #1 source of hospital transfer, so that actually seems to reduce the workload per the coronavirus doctors I know.

Note: I am going out more. Every adult I interact with is boosted, one kid fully vaccinated, one with one jab, but my reading tells me one dose probably is (temporarily) enough, as long as I still wear a mask.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/16/young-k ... -safe.html

7% to 8% of kids have symptoms for over 12 weeks?!? Holy cow!

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/cov ... -questions

Lightsaber



We need the shots required. Kids are required to get certain vaccines before they go to school Covid shots should be part of that list.

I don't think the system will break. I think we are going to go into the wave i predicted in the wrong thread for one of the mods. It will be the holiday oriented one. Too many people want to travel this time. Most are vaccinated, but the stubborn ones will bear the brunt again. My hopes is that it won't be a big wave, as hopefully the vaccinated will far outnumber the unvaccinated this time.
 
stratosphere
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:03 pm

casinterest wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
casinterest wrote:
In a sad political note, the death rate in "red" counties is over 3 times that in "blue" counties in the US since the vaccine came out.

https://news.yahoo.com/red-america-now- ... 40335.html



Why don't you stop pushing that narrative. I have been watching this and this virus rises and falls in every state despite mitigation measures. Every state has spikes right now the northern states are in a spike and southern states are falling. Over the pond in Amsterdam Covid and hospitalizations are exploding despite 85% of the country vaccinated...Now Fauci is pushing the booster for everyone because hospitalizations in this country are rising for VACCINATED people. .So what now? We have to boost every 6 months? I don't really think pumping vaccines into our bodies every 6 months is a good idea. Bottom line is these vaccines at the very least have a short duration and in my opinion are not providing the robust protections that were sold to us at the beginning. Lets stop forcing a less than effective new vaccine on the general public and start really going gangbusters on therapeutics and getting them into people early at the first signs of infection and also keeping our distances from others and yes maybe a mask in crowded venues and even though I hate it keep it on during flights and in airports.


What narrative. I posted real facts and data Something that is eluding you.

Let's start with the Netherlands

https://nltimes.nl/2021/10/26/covid-inf ... ths-rising

About one in five Dutch people aged 12 years and older have not been vaccinated, or have not yet been fully vaccinated. But, according to the RIVM, they constitute more than half of all positive tests.


So if 80% of the population is vaccinated, but they make up less than half of the folks in the ER, yet 20% of the unvaccinated make up more than half in the ER. You just told me that the vaccines are well over 80% effective.


As for booster shots.

Do we boost the flu shot that is far less deadly? Yes we do. once a year, and specifically in the fall it is recommended.

We have to force the vaccine on the uneducated and math challenged because at the end of the day they are killing themselves.

But now that the vaccines are available widely for kids, I am fully ready to give a 10-12 week window where we finally kick off the mask mandates, raise insurance prices on the unvaccinated, and see where the chips fall.


This vaccine is not time tested it has already fallen short of expectations. So what other surprises are awaiting us in the future for those of us vaccinated over time? How many commercials do you see on TV for drugs years later from law firms asking "have you taken drug X" ? You may be entitled to compensation. We are MANDATING this new technology and people are losing their jobs over it and these people have valid concerns for the safety of it and a good number of them are not anti vax. The way the government and MSM are pushing the vaccine a vaccine that does not keep you from catching or spreading COVID and only lasts at best 6 months. It also does not give any option for people who have had COVID and have natural immunity and downplays therapeutics as an option makes me highly suspect of motives.
 
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casinterest
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 5:09 pm

stratosphere wrote:
casinterest wrote:
stratosphere wrote:

Why don't you stop pushing that narrative. I have been watching this and this virus rises and falls in every state despite mitigation measures. Every state has spikes right now the northern states are in a spike and southern states are falling. Over the pond in Amsterdam Covid and hospitalizations are exploding despite 85% of the country vaccinated...Now Fauci is pushing the booster for everyone because hospitalizations in this country are rising for VACCINATED people. .So what now? We have to boost every 6 months? I don't really think pumping vaccines into our bodies every 6 months is a good idea. Bottom line is these vaccines at the very least have a short duration and in my opinion are not providing the robust protections that were sold to us at the beginning. Lets stop forcing a less than effective new vaccine on the general public and start really going gangbusters on therapeutics and getting them into people early at the first signs of infection and also keeping our distances from others and yes maybe a mask in crowded venues and even though I hate it keep it on during flights and in airports.


What narrative. I posted real facts and data Something that is eluding you.

Let's start with the Netherlands

https://nltimes.nl/2021/10/26/covid-inf ... ths-rising

About one in five Dutch people aged 12 years and older have not been vaccinated, or have not yet been fully vaccinated. But, according to the RIVM, they constitute more than half of all positive tests.


So if 80% of the population is vaccinated, but they make up less than half of the folks in the ER, yet 20% of the unvaccinated make up more than half in the ER. You just told me that the vaccines are well over 80% effective.


As for booster shots.

Do we boost the flu shot that is far less deadly? Yes we do. once a year, and specifically in the fall it is recommended.

We have to force the vaccine on the uneducated and math challenged because at the end of the day they are killing themselves.

But now that the vaccines are available widely for kids, I am fully ready to give a 10-12 week window where we finally kick off the mask mandates, raise insurance prices on the unvaccinated, and see where the chips fall.


This vaccine is not time tested it has already fallen short of expectations. So what other surprises are awaiting us in the future for those of us vaccinated over time? How many commercials do you see on TV for drugs years later from law firms asking "have you taken drug X" ? You may be entitled to compensation. We are MANDATING this new technology and people are losing their jobs over it and these people have valid concerns for the safety of it and a good number of them are not anti vax. The way the government and MSM are pushing the vaccine a vaccine that does not keep you from catching or spreading COVID and only lasts at best 6 months. It also does not give any option for people who have had COVID and have natural immunity and downplays therapeutics as an option makes me highly suspect of motives.





The science is in , and the vaccines work. If you are vaccinated You don't have to worry about therapeutics and natural immunity, and you avoid playing Russian roulette like you media sources want you to.

Whatever you are wasting your time on to get these horrible unscientific points of view from., you need to really stop. There are far better pursuits in your life than worrying about commercials you see from ambulance chasing lawyers, on networks with fear mongering liars as hosts.
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:46 pm

casinterest wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Francoflier wrote:

I don't disagree...
Covid is turning into a crisis mostly for the unvaccinated.
Why should we care about them when they've made their own choice?
It is indeed a rather striking example of natural selection.

It's just that the medical system needs to treat them for what they are and stop spending too many resources and exhausted staff on them.
(I know, I know... ethics)

This has become a crisis for the unboosted, unvaccinated and the 3% of the population who cannot build immunity (cancer patients, very elderly, HIV, kidney patients).

The medical staff are so past burnout. I predict the system is going to break. This is just too much. When is the question.

Note forcing nurses to be vaccinated stops the #1 source of hospital transfer, so that actually seems to reduce the workload per the coronavirus doctors I know.

Note: I am going out more. Every adult I interact with is boosted, one kid fully vaccinated, one with one jab, but my reading tells me one dose probably is (temporarily) enough, as long as I still wear a mask.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/16/young-k ... -safe.html

7% to 8% of kids have symptoms for over 12 weeks?!? Holy cow!

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/cov ... -questions

Lightsaber



We need the shots required. Kids are required to get certain vaccines before they go to school Covid shots should be part of that list.

I don't think the system will break. I think we are going to go into the wave i predicted in the wrong thread for one of the mods. It will be the holiday oriented one. Too many people want to travel this time. Most are vaccinated, but the stubborn ones will bear the brunt again. My hopes is that it won't be a big wave, as hopefully the vaccinated will far outnumber the unvaccinated this time.

Problem is they haven't tested the vaccine on newborn yet, unlike other vaccines meant for newborns
 
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casinterest
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:39 pm

c933103 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
This has become a crisis for the unboosted, unvaccinated and the 3% of the population who cannot build immunity (cancer patients, very elderly, HIV, kidney patients).

The medical staff are so past burnout. I predict the system is going to break. This is just too much. When is the question.

Note forcing nurses to be vaccinated stops the #1 source of hospital transfer, so that actually seems to reduce the workload per the coronavirus doctors I know.

Note: I am going out more. Every adult I interact with is boosted, one kid fully vaccinated, one with one jab, but my reading tells me one dose probably is (temporarily) enough, as long as I still wear a mask.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/16/young-k ... -safe.html

7% to 8% of kids have symptoms for over 12 weeks?!? Holy cow!

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/cov ... -questions

Lightsaber



We need the shots required. Kids are required to get certain vaccines before they go to school Covid shots should be part of that list.

I don't think the system will break. I think we are going to go into the wave i predicted in the wrong thread for one of the mods. It will be the holiday oriented one. Too many people want to travel this time. Most are vaccinated, but the stubborn ones will bear the brunt again. My hopes is that it won't be a big wave, as hopefully the vaccinated will far outnumber the unvaccinated this time.

Problem is they haven't tested the vaccine on newborn yet, unlike other vaccines meant for newborns


Newborns aren't a big problem, in terms of their ability to handle the virus. . Their immune system is rather strong, and the parents themselves are much more responsible for their social interactions than others are. So the 5-12 was the last real dosage we need to start getting ready to open up. 2-4 year olds should only be a few months further behind us right now.
 
flyguy89
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:01 pm

stratosphere wrote:
casinterest wrote:
stratosphere wrote:

Why don't you stop pushing that narrative. I have been watching this and this virus rises and falls in every state despite mitigation measures. Every state has spikes right now the northern states are in a spike and southern states are falling. Over the pond in Amsterdam Covid and hospitalizations are exploding despite 85% of the country vaccinated...Now Fauci is pushing the booster for everyone because hospitalizations in this country are rising for VACCINATED people. .So what now? We have to boost every 6 months? I don't really think pumping vaccines into our bodies every 6 months is a good idea. Bottom line is these vaccines at the very least have a short duration and in my opinion are not providing the robust protections that were sold to us at the beginning. Lets stop forcing a less than effective new vaccine on the general public and start really going gangbusters on therapeutics and getting them into people early at the first signs of infection and also keeping our distances from others and yes maybe a mask in crowded venues and even though I hate it keep it on during flights and in airports.


What narrative. I posted real facts and data Something that is eluding you.

Let's start with the Netherlands

https://nltimes.nl/2021/10/26/covid-inf ... ths-rising

About one in five Dutch people aged 12 years and older have not been vaccinated, or have not yet been fully vaccinated. But, according to the RIVM, they constitute more than half of all positive tests.


So if 80% of the population is vaccinated, but they make up less than half of the folks in the ER, yet 20% of the unvaccinated make up more than half in the ER. You just told me that the vaccines are well over 80% effective.


As for booster shots.

Do we boost the flu shot that is far less deadly? Yes we do. once a year, and specifically in the fall it is recommended.

We have to force the vaccine on the uneducated and math challenged because at the end of the day they are killing themselves.

But now that the vaccines are available widely for kids, I am fully ready to give a 10-12 week window where we finally kick off the mask mandates, raise insurance prices on the unvaccinated, and see where the chips fall.


This vaccine is not time tested it has already fallen short of expectations. So what other surprises are awaiting us in the future for those of us vaccinated over time? How many commercials do you see on TV for drugs years later from law firms asking "have you taken drug X" ? You may be entitled to compensation. We are MANDATING this new technology and people are losing their jobs over it and these people have valid concerns for the safety of it and a good number of them are not anti vax. The way the government and MSM are pushing the vaccine a vaccine that does not keep you from catching or spreading COVID and only lasts at best 6 months. It also does not give any option for people who have had COVID and have natural immunity and downplays therapeutics as an option makes me highly suspect of motives.

I don’t know where this notion comes from that therapeutics are being “downplayed.” There have now been several recent breakthroughs for therapeutics…but therapeutics require you to actually believe the virus is real and take it seriously since they usually need to be administered early on during the infection (I.e. you need to get tested). I don’t happen to agree with the mandates either, but strongly believe in the vaccines. The problem on the right is that those are not mutually exclusive distinctions for them at the moment. Vaccine refusal seems to be more about “resisting” and “owning the libs,” which is why they need to go down these obscure rabbit holes to trawl out the most sketchy and ludicrous “evidence” and conspiracy theories to at all substantiate their reluctance as any but political.
 
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casinterest
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:10 pm

Interesting charts from Michigan on the recent surge.

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/coro ... 1480_7.pdf

They reinforce that the unvaccinated are still at the most risk.

It comes from the below article.
https://www.michiganradio.org/health/20 ... s-show-how


The interesting item for me is how the school aged children in the slide marked "Case Rate Trends by Age" pretty much puts away the argument about school transmission.
The 0-9 is only mitigated by the fact that about 50 % of them aren't school aged. They destroyed the 20-29 year groups that lead the previous waves.
 
StarAC17
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:33 pm

casinterest wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
casinterest wrote:

What narrative. I posted real facts and data Something that is eluding you.

Let's start with the Netherlands

https://nltimes.nl/2021/10/26/covid-inf ... ths-rising



So if 80% of the population is vaccinated, but they make up less than half of the folks in the ER, yet 20% of the unvaccinated make up more than half in the ER. You just told me that the vaccines are well over 80% effective.


As for booster shots.

Do we boost the flu shot that is far less deadly? Yes we do. once a year, and specifically in the fall it is recommended.

We have to force the vaccine on the uneducated and math challenged because at the end of the day they are killing themselves.

But now that the vaccines are available widely for kids, I am fully ready to give a 10-12 week window where we finally kick off the mask mandates, raise insurance prices on the unvaccinated, and see where the chips fall.


This vaccine is not time tested it has already fallen short of expectations. So what other surprises are awaiting us in the future for those of us vaccinated over time? How many commercials do you see on TV for drugs years later from law firms asking "have you taken drug X" ? You may be entitled to compensation. We are MANDATING this new technology and people are losing their jobs over it and these people have valid concerns for the safety of it and a good number of them are not anti vax. The way the government and MSM are pushing the vaccine a vaccine that does not keep you from catching or spreading COVID and only lasts at best 6 months. It also does not give any option for people who have had COVID and have natural immunity and downplays therapeutics as an option makes me highly suspect of motives.





The science is in , and the vaccines work. If you are vaccinated You don't have to worry about therapeutics and natural immunity, and you avoid playing Russian roulette like you media sources want you to.

Whatever you are wasting your time on to get these horrible unscientific points of view from., you need to really stop. There are far better pursuits in your life than worrying about commercials you see from ambulance chasing lawyers, on networks with fear mongering liars as hosts.


I agree that they work at preventing severe illness and death but there is still some doubt that they can do this long term or at least enough to satisfy what the goal is because that is unclear at the moment.

I agree with boosters for everyone over 65 and those who are immunocompromised. However for everyone doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense. Furthermore if you get a breakthrough infection you are going to be given the therapeutics anyways.

The one thing I would say in the US and even Israel is you are still woefully under vaccinated to the point that you can still have a clear hospital problem even with the vaccination levels being what they are. Both countries hover just under 70% fully vaccinated. Canada is just under 80% and we still have indoor masking and are seeing a slow uptick with about 50% of the cases being fully vaccinated.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

90% double dosed is the minimum level to achieve enough protection that the virus will be largely defanged to the point that hospitals won't be overrun as we have therapeutics now. Its going to be here for life but as Doc has said the virus can't change all of the spike protein all at once so we will for life have some degree of protection as Covid circulates.

art wrote:
Austria to introduce compulsory vaccination in February.

Source: BBC TV news

It will be interesting to see if COVID-19 disease ceases to constitute a crisis in Austria in the months following February 2022.


It will. Perhaps in February we will be at a low point in cases as winter is beginning to end but this thing is a going to be a seasonal infection like the flu and the other endemic coronaviruses.
 
flyguy89
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:09 pm

StarAC17 wrote:
90% double dosed is the minimum level to achieve enough protection that the virus will be largely defanged

That is just a guess. Again, I believe in the vaccines but the above has yet to be born out or proven anywhere for a sustained period of time.
 
StarAC17
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:21 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
90% double dosed is the minimum level to achieve enough protection that the virus will be largely defanged

That is just a guess. Again, I believe in the vaccines but the above has yet to be born out or proven anywhere for a sustained period of time.


It hasn't been reached anywhere yet outside of individual municipalities. But most medical experts and epidemiologists say that's the target. Also other diseases we vaccinate for such as polio and measles we have nearly 100% vaccination rates.

It is New Zealand's goal.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavir ... -1.5633694

Canadian experts opinion from July.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/c ... -1.6113769

Its not going to be gone but basically nobody who is generally healthy will be seriously sick from Covid.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:56 am

StarAC17 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
StarAC17 wrote:
90% double dosed is the minimum level to achieve enough protection that the virus will be largely defanged

That is just a guess. Again, I believe in the vaccines but the above has yet to be born out or proven anywhere for a sustained period of time.


It hasn't been reached anywhere yet outside of individual municipalities. But most medical experts and epidemiologists say that's the target. Also other diseases we vaccinate for such as polio and measles we have nearly 100% vaccination rates.

It is New Zealand's goal.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavir ... -1.5633694

Canadian experts opinion from July.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/c ... -1.6113769

Its not going to be gone but basically nobody who is generally healthy will be seriously sick from Covid.

Just to clarify, no one generally heathy and vaccinated will get seriously sick. I know healthy people with lung scaring, all unvaccinated. Never hospitalized, but they will suffer.

Lightsaber
 
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c933103
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:24 am

casinterest wrote:
c933103 wrote:
casinterest wrote:


We need the shots required. Kids are required to get certain vaccines before they go to school Covid shots should be part of that list.

I don't think the system will break. I think we are going to go into the wave i predicted in the wrong thread for one of the mods. It will be the holiday oriented one. Too many people want to travel this time. Most are vaccinated, but the stubborn ones will bear the brunt again. My hopes is that it won't be a big wave, as hopefully the vaccinated will far outnumber the unvaccinated this time.

Problem is they haven't tested the vaccine on newborn yet, unlike other vaccines meant for newborns


Newborns aren't a big problem, in terms of their ability to handle the virus. . Their immune system is rather strong, and the parents themselves are much more responsible for their social interactions than others are. So the 5-12 was the last real dosage we need to start getting ready to open up. 2-4 year olds should only be a few months further behind us right now.

isn't there also Kawasaki-disease-like-inflammation?
 
af773atmsp
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Sun Nov 21, 2021 5:51 am

I'm fully vaccinated plus got a booster shot a week ago. Too bad cases are on the rise in the Netherlands since I'll be flying there in just over a week. It definitely won't be like my travels in the good old pre-COVID days, and I'm going to have zero expectations in terms of freedom to travel and visiting places. Even if the Netherlands tells me to stay home right before I'm supposed to leave I'll just shake off the disappointment (as long as I either get my money back from KLM or they let me rebook it at a future time that's 100% flexible).
 
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fallap
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:27 am

casinterest wrote:

We have to force the vaccine on the uneducated and math challenged because at the end of the day they are killing themselves.


It's a good rule of thumb not to demonize the people you disagree with, calling unvaccinated people uneducated and math challenged will hardly win them over. The vaccine ought to be completely voluntary, forcing it in people would be a gross violation of the individual right over our own bodies. Lastly, it is painful to watch governments worldwide enact policies meant to encourage vaccinations by making life as difficult and miserable for those who aren't vaccinated. This will hardly decrease the growing vaccine scepticism.
 
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Francoflier
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:45 am

fallap wrote:
casinterest wrote:

We have to force the vaccine on the uneducated and math challenged because at the end of the day they are killing themselves.


It's a good rule of thumb not to demonize the people you disagree with, calling unvaccinated people uneducated and math challenged will hardly win them over. The vaccine ought to be completely voluntary, forcing it in people would be a gross violation of the individual right over our own bodies. Lastly, it is painful to watch governments worldwide enact policies meant to encourage vaccinations by making life as difficult and miserable for those who aren't vaccinated. This will hardly decrease the growing vaccine scepticism.


That would be great if that decision only affected them. Unfortunately it doesn't.
The current healthcare crisis mostly stems from the inflow of unvaccinated people flooding into hospitals.
Because of them, hospitals are stretched to the limit and are devoting their resources to treat unnecessary illnesses, which has the nasty consequence of delaying or denying important healthcare for patients awaiting treatment for other diseases...
Not to mention the fact that they are not likely to sort the disease when sick.

I'd have no problem with people not vaccinating if they accepted the consequences of their decision. That would mean de-prioritizing Covid treatment to the unvaxxed (triage), and letting health insurance companies (public or private) not cover Covid hospital treatment for them either.
Only then would the decision to not vaccinate truly be one's own.

Unfortunately (and as much as I'd love to see them crying and whining when being turned away from hospitals as they die of Covid) because we live in a society and a thing called ethics, we can't easily do that, meaning that said society now has to makes sacrifices to cater for the whim of those who want to claim their 'personal freedoms'...

As for calling them uneducated and math-challenged, we can't stop saying the truth because it hurts some people.
 
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casinterest
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:53 pm

fallap wrote:
casinterest wrote:

We have to force the vaccine on the uneducated and math challenged because at the end of the day they are killing themselves.


It's a good rule of thumb not to demonize the people you disagree with, calling unvaccinated people uneducated and math challenged will hardly win them over. The vaccine ought to be completely voluntary, forcing it in people would be a gross violation of the individual right over our own bodies. Lastly, it is painful to watch governments worldwide enact policies meant to encourage vaccinations by making life as difficult and miserable for those who aren't vaccinated. This will hardly decrease the growing vaccine scepticism.



Not trying to win them over anymore. No vaccine is entirely voluntary when you want to participate in society. This is why in the US all kids going to school are required to have a series of vaccinations. You go into the Military, you are required to submit to whatever they want. You go into a private company, you submit to random screenings Those that don't want to be vaccinated can go sit on their own island of incompetence..
 
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fallap
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:05 pm

Francoflier wrote:
fallap wrote:
casinterest wrote:

We have to force the vaccine on the uneducated and math challenged because at the end of the day they are killing themselves.


It's a good rule of thumb not to demonize the people you disagree with, calling unvaccinated people uneducated and math challenged will hardly win them over. The vaccine ought to be completely voluntary, forcing it in people would be a gross violation of the individual right over our own bodies. Lastly, it is painful to watch governments worldwide enact policies meant to encourage vaccinations by making life as difficult and miserable for those who aren't vaccinated. This will hardly decrease the growing vaccine scepticism.


That would be great if that decision only affected them. Unfortunately it doesn't.
The current healthcare crisis mostly stems from the inflow of unvaccinated people flooding into hospitals.
Because of them, hospitals are stretched to the limit and are devoting their resources to treat unnecessary illnesses, which has the nasty consequence of delaying or denying important healthcare for patients awaiting treatment for other diseases...
Not to mention the fact that they are not likely to sort the disease when sick.

I'd have no problem with people not vaccinating if they accepted the consequences of their decision. That would mean de-prioritizing Covid treatment to the unvaxxed (triage), and letting health insurance companies (public or private) not cover Covid hospital treatment for them either.
Only then would the decision to not vaccinate truly be one's own.

Unfortunately (and as much as I'd love to see them crying and whining when being turned away from hospitals as they die of Covid) because we live in a society and a thing called ethics, we can't easily do that, meaning that said society now has to makes sacrifices to cater for the whim of those who want to claim their 'personal freedoms'...

As for calling them uneducated and math-challenged, we can't stop saying the truth because it hurts some people.


The current health crisis stems from unvaccinated people. Question remains how we manage to to vaccinate the majority of the population? Coercion, bullying, and damnation are not the first methods to apply in my book as it will only fan the flames of the growing scepticism to the vaccines (it is in fact possible to be pro-vaccine and anti-Covid-vaccine at the same time) and do little to build trust between the population and the state. Here in Denmark we have always had a unique high level of trust in our state, and for that reason vaccination rates are fairly high which means we get to avoid the most draconian of measures. If anything, I would suggest finding long term solutions and policy proposals that would serve to increase trust in the government as a high correlation exist between vaccinations and trust.

I would hate to live in a society where your access to health care is governed by your choice of vaccinations etc. We also treat victims of car crashes who didn't wear seatbelts, and I find it worrying that you would love to see people turned away and die because they didn't get the vaccine - this isn't a society we ought to strive for.

Calling unvaccinated people uneducated and math-challenged will not improve anything but your ego at best, and most likely carve the ditch deeper and only add more frustration. Remember people voting for Trump? This is the behavior we risk seeing in the future if the "deplorables" are treated as such. :)

On a final note, being vaccinated against diseases not Covid-19 is not forced upon people, yet those diseases also pose a risk against the rest of the community.

To summarize; creating trust between the state and the people will be far more beneficial in the long run compared to coersion, and at this point in the pandemic people are starting to lose patience with lock-downs etc.

Best wishes, Fallap <3
 
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casinterest
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:24 pm

fallap wrote:
Francoflier wrote:
fallap wrote:

It's a good rule of thumb not to demonize the people you disagree with, calling unvaccinated people uneducated and math challenged will hardly win them over. The vaccine ought to be completely voluntary, forcing it in people would be a gross violation of the individual right over our own bodies. Lastly, it is painful to watch governments worldwide enact policies meant to encourage vaccinations by making life as difficult and miserable for those who aren't vaccinated. This will hardly decrease the growing vaccine scepticism.


That would be great if that decision only affected them. Unfortunately it doesn't.
The current healthcare crisis mostly stems from the inflow of unvaccinated people flooding into hospitals.
Because of them, hospitals are stretched to the limit and are devoting their resources to treat unnecessary illnesses, which has the nasty consequence of delaying or denying important healthcare for patients awaiting treatment for other diseases...
Not to mention the fact that they are not likely to sort the disease when sick.

I'd have no problem with people not vaccinating if they accepted the consequences of their decision. That would mean de-prioritizing Covid treatment to the unvaxxed (triage), and letting health insurance companies (public or private) not cover Covid hospital treatment for them either.
Only then would the decision to not vaccinate truly be one's own.

Unfortunately (and as much as I'd love to see them crying and whining when being turned away from hospitals as they die of Covid) because we live in a society and a thing called ethics, we can't easily do that, meaning that said society now has to makes sacrifices to cater for the whim of those who want to claim their 'personal freedoms'...

As for calling them uneducated and math-challenged, we can't stop saying the truth because it hurts some people.


The current health crisis stems from unvaccinated people. Question remains how we manage to to vaccinate the majority of the population? Coercion, bullying, and damnation are not the first methods to apply in my book as it will only fan the flames of the growing scepticism to the vaccines (it is in fact possible to be pro-vaccine and anti-Covid-vaccine at the same time) and do little to build trust between the population and the state. Here in Denmark we have always had a unique high level of trust in our state, and for that reason vaccination rates are fairly high which means we get to avoid the most draconian of measures. If anything, I would suggest finding long term solutions and policy proposals that would serve to increase trust in the government as a high correlation exist between vaccinations and trust.

I would hate to live in a society where your access to health care is governed by your choice of vaccinations etc. We also treat victims of car crashes who didn't wear seatbelts, and I find it worrying that you would love to see people turned away and die because they didn't get the vaccine - this isn't a society we ought to strive for.

Calling unvaccinated people uneducated and math-challenged will not improve anything but your ego at best, and most likely carve the ditch deeper and only add more frustration. Remember people voting for Trump? This is the behavior we risk seeing in the future if the "deplorables" are treated as such. :)

On a final note, being vaccinated against diseases not Covid-19 is not forced upon people, yet those diseases also pose a risk against the rest of the community.

To summarize; creating trust between the state and the people will be far more beneficial in the long run compared to coersion, and at this point in the pandemic people are starting to lose patience with lock-downs etc.

Best wishes, Fallap <3


In this case ,I think people need to be forced through coercion. you want the job, you get the vaccine. you don't want the vaccine, you pay more for insurance since your actions will result in more strain on healthcare.
I am not in favor of tying people down and administering it, but I am also not in favor of having my neighbor overworked by dumb people that show up sick, and say they thought it was all a joke.
Here in the US it is not about distrust between the state and the public, It is about dishonorable and unqualified people lying to the uneducated and working in a feedback loop. Everyone was coddled for over 18 months. Now it is about getting on with our lives in a vaccinated state, and to stop overworking the health professionals.

If they are stuck in their feedback loop of ignorance that affects others that can't get the shot, or have to deal with the consequences of them winding up in the hospital., the only way out is to mandate the shots.
Just watch the US numbers coming in the next two -four weeks to see how big an issue the Northeast will go into with the Holiday explosion of cases in the states. We may get a gimpse of how bad it will get tomorrow or Wednesday, but the numbers roiling in from Nov-30 forward will probably be showing highly escalated numbers of cases.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:25 pm

Sarcasm alert: Perhaps we could allow the unvaccinated their own hospitals and clinics, fund them per capita the same as any one else. They could use whatever medicines they want, and hire medical people who also don't want to be vaccinated.
 
stratosphere
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 4:43 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Sarcasm alert: Perhaps we could allow the unvaccinated their own hospitals and clinics, fund them per capita the same as any one else. They could use whatever medicines they want, and hire medical people who also don't want to be vaccinated.


I was more of a believer in the vaccine before Delta came along and also how fast the protections are evaporating despite what the so called science said in the beginning. I know a few that died of Covid despite being fully vaccinated my aunt being one of them. There are long term unknowns with these vaccines 2 of the 3 are still under an EUA and the Pfizer looks like it was rushed to approval so they could mandate this across the board. All of it makes a lot of people uneasy. I got the vaccine (moderna) I will probably get the booster since the first two didn't kill me. But I can see why people do not trust it I am far from an anti- vaxer and even I almost drove off when I was in line waiting for my first shot. I know plenty of people down here in the south who are scared to death of the vaccines even more than getting the virus. Too much politics surrounding it and ever changing messages.
 
Kent350787
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:45 pm

stratosphere wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
Sarcasm alert: Perhaps we could allow the unvaccinated their own hospitals and clinics, fund them per capita the same as any one else. They could use whatever medicines they want, and hire medical people who also don't want to be vaccinated.


I was more of a believer in the vaccine before Delta came along and also how fast the protections are evaporating despite what the so called science said in the beginning. I know a few that died of Covid despite being fully vaccinated my aunt being one of them. There are long term unknowns with these vaccines 2 of the 3 are still under an EUA and the Pfizer looks like it was rushed to approval so they could mandate this across the board. All of it makes a lot of people uneasy. I got the vaccine (moderna) I will probably get the booster since the first two didn't kill me. But I can see why people do not trust it I am far from an anti- vaxer and even I almost drove off when I was in line waiting for my first shot. I know plenty of people down here in the south who are scared to death of the vaccines even more than getting the virus. Too much politics surrounding it and ever changing messages.


But it’s not about belief, it’s about evidence.

Vaccination is working big time in my country because, apart from the perverse and the stupid, people can see the absolute benefit as individuals and as a society.
 
Toenga
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:01 pm

Well here is one completly out of left field.
Japan which had a serious delta outbreak in October, has now had a spectacular decline in case numbers, from 26000 per day to 200 per day
Yesterday was the first day in 15months not to record a covid death.
Vaccination rates are good but not spectacular.

A theory is that delta has mutated to self extinction!!!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid- ... QYC4BGDOA/
 
Newark727
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:02 pm

Toenga wrote:
A theory is that delta has mutated to self extinction!!!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid- ... QYC4BGDOA/


Well that sure would be nice.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:46 am

Israel just starts vaccinating kids as half the cases are now in 5 to 11 year olds:
https://news.yahoo.com/israel-starts-va ... 15647.html

Cases are low.
 
Kent350787
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:10 am

lightsaber wrote:
Israel just starts vaccinating kids as half the cases are now in 5 to 11 year olds:
https://news.yahoo.com/israel-starts-va ... 15647.html

Cases are low.


Australia is waiting until the new year to start 5-11yo vaccination. 12+ fully vaccinated is now over 90%.in my state of NSW, with close to 95% having had at least a first dose. The booster program has also started.

Of the 1,601 cases reported for the week ending 13 November, just over a third were in the 0-11 age group, who cannot yet be vaccinated. Just under a third were from the 90%+ of 12+ population fully vaccinated. Roughly a third of the cases were reported from amongst the fewer than 10% of the 12+ population not fully vaccinated.

Hopefully 5-11yo vax in the new year will address the infection in that age group.
 
Toenga
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:04 am

Kent350787 wrote:

Australia is waiting until the new year to start 5-11yo vaccination. 12+ fully vaccinated is now over 90%.in my state of NSW, with close to 95% having had at least a first dose. The booster program has also started.

Of the 1,601 cases reported for the week ending 13 November, just over a third were in the 0-11 age group, who cannot yet be vaccinated. Just under a third were from the 90%+ of 12+ population fully vaccinated. Roughly a third of the cases were reported from amongst the fewer than 10% of the 12+ population not fully vaccinated.

Hopefully 5-11yo vax in the new year will address the infection in that age group.


NZ intends to vaccinate this group as soon as possible with the Pfizer pediatric formulation vaccine that Pfizer have used for trials, and submitted for NZ approval.
New Zealand recently placed a further Pfiizer order on the basis that some, or all , of the order, could be changed to any new formulation, if and when they became available. They are confident that approvals will be in place before any supply eventuates early next year.
Let's hope so, as the about 15% of currently ineligible population has been a very significant portion of current cases, and onward infection.
90% of 93% of the population is a lot better then 90% of 85% of the population in suppressing onward infection and reducing demands on our hospitals.
 
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:55 am

Newark727 wrote:
Toenga wrote:
A theory is that delta has mutated to self extinction!!!
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid- ... QYC4BGDOA/


Well that sure would be nice.

that's the report I posted sone weeks ago
But it rely on an enzyme that's much more active among East Asian and Oceanian than other populations.
 
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Re: COVID-19 Non Aviation Thread - Q4 2021

Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:58 am

casinterest wrote:
fallap wrote:
Francoflier wrote:

That would be great if that decision only affected them. Unfortunately it doesn't.
The current healthcare crisis mostly stems from the inflow of unvaccinated people flooding into hospitals.
Because of them, hospitals are stretched to the limit and are devoting their resources to treat unnecessary illnesses, which has the nasty consequence of delaying or denying important healthcare for patients awaiting treatment for other diseases...
Not to mention the fact that they are not likely to sort the disease when sick.

I'd have no problem with people not vaccinating if they accepted the consequences of their decision. That would mean de-prioritizing Covid treatment to the unvaxxed (triage), and letting health insurance companies (public or private) not cover Covid hospital treatment for them either.
Only then would the decision to not vaccinate truly be one's own.

Unfortunately (and as much as I'd love to see them crying and whining when being turned away from hospitals as they die of Covid) because we live in a society and a thing called ethics, we can't easily do that, meaning that said society now has to makes sacrifices to cater for the whim of those who want to claim their 'personal freedoms'...

As for calling them uneducated and math-challenged, we can't stop saying the truth because it hurts some people.


The current health crisis stems from unvaccinated people. Question remains how we manage to to vaccinate the majority of the population? Coercion, bullying, and damnation are not the first methods to apply in my book as it will only fan the flames of the growing scepticism to the vaccines (it is in fact possible to be pro-vaccine and anti-Covid-vaccine at the same time) and do little to build trust between the population and the state. Here in Denmark we have always had a unique high level of trust in our state, and for that reason vaccination rates are fairly high which means we get to avoid the most draconian of measures. If anything, I would suggest finding long term solutions and policy proposals that would serve to increase trust in the government as a high correlation exist between vaccinations and trust.

I would hate to live in a society where your access to health care is governed by your choice of vaccinations etc. We also treat victims of car crashes who didn't wear seatbelts, and I find it worrying that you would love to see people turned away and die because they didn't get the vaccine - this isn't a society we ought to strive for.

Calling unvaccinated people uneducated and math-challenged will not improve anything but your ego at best, and most likely carve the ditch deeper and only add more frustration. Remember people voting for Trump? This is the behavior we risk seeing in the future if the "deplorables" are treated as such. :)

On a final note, being vaccinated against diseases not Covid-19 is not forced upon people, yet those diseases also pose a risk against the rest of the community.

To summarize; creating trust between the state and the people will be far more beneficial in the long run compared to coersion, and at this point in the pandemic people are starting to lose patience with lock-downs etc.

Best wishes, Fallap <3


In this case ,I think people need to be forced through coercion. you want the job, you get the vaccine. you don't want the vaccine, you pay more for insurance since your actions will result in more strain on healthcare.
I am not in favor of tying people down and administering it, but I am also not in favor of having my neighbor overworked by dumb people that show up sick, and say they thought it was all a joke.
Here in the US it is not about distrust between the state and the public, It is about dishonorable and unqualified people lying to the uneducated and working in a feedback loop. Everyone was coddled for over 18 months. Now it is about getting on with our lives in a vaccinated state, and to stop overworking the health professionals.

If they are stuck in their feedback loop of ignorance that affects others that can't get the shot, or have to deal with the consequences of them winding up in the hospital., the only way out is to mandate the shots.
Just watch the US numbers coming in the next two -four weeks to see how big an issue the Northeast will go into with the Holiday explosion of cases in the states. We may get a gimpse of how bad it will get tomorrow or Wednesday, but the numbers roiling in from Nov-30 forward will probably be showing highly escalated numbers of cases.

Are you in favor of banning the sale of coca cola and alcohol for their negative health effect? As stores selling alcohol or cocacola help worsen the community's condition and thus damaging the soxiety for rheir profits
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