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pune
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Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Fri Oct 01, 2021 6:53 pm

A few weeks back, a friend of mine who is in Delhi bought a four-wheeler, and he recently shared the whole experience with me which I am sharing with numbers and everything, so people know -

Yesterday on a vehicle with basic value of Rs. 12.06 Lakhs, I have paid GST of Rs. 5.43 Lakhs — a whopping 45%.

Add to that RTO Tax of Rs. 73,410/-.

Now the highest tax chargeable under present norms is 28% hence I asked him how come it is so much.

His answer -

The govt has a fooling device — called Cess. Cess technically it is not tax. So they say that max. tax is 28% (14% SGST + 14% CGST). But on cars they charge Cess 17%, too. To add insult to the injury, they compute 17% Cess on the price. Usually, Cess is computed on the tax amount.

Now to add fuel to the fire, India made a scrappage policy

https://www.timesnownews.com/auto/featu ... ari/729464

The above basically makes any investment in any vehicle a dis-investment as there will be no second sale for the owner or whatever will be, it will be 'illegal' or black money.
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Fri Oct 01, 2021 7:01 pm

Just to add two years before tha pandemic the present Finance Minister had shared that people were not buying cars due to ola and uber.

https://indianexpress.com/article/busin ... b-5983608/

And this was rejected by one of the biggest players in the market -

https://yourstory.com/2019/09/millennia ... suzuki/amp

The sad part is Lakhs of workers are employed by car manufacturers, by auto-ancillaries, by dealers, by car repair workshops, by petroleum refining and marketing companies. If the automobile sector sinks, they all sink with it. Automobiles and auto spares are major exports too.And this actually has been happening. And unlike in other countries where EV's have been taking a slack, that is also not being done as there has been almost no investment either public or private in charging infrastructure and some recent examples have led a bad taste in the mouth

This is from my own city unfortunately -

https://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.c ... d/86611862

The reasons of the same have been shared above. The technology is sound if done by proper people. An e.g. of the same -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSGESKhtZD0

But as shared in the article, most companies prefer to use shortcuts rather than understand how it is to be done.

One of the biggest names in the business, Tesla has made an entire system around it.

https://tesla-info.com/guide/tesla-bms-calibration.php

Of course, a few years down the line when either solid or semi=solid batteries are on the scene, the whole thing will disappear automatically. Toyota has been showing some. Quantumscape is another name we often hear in that space. And there are plenty others and other battery chemistries, who knows which will win.
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:23 pm

This is the story across industry. For e.g.

https://www.cnbctv18.com/business/marut ... 962122.htm

And the idea about chip shortage is a lie. Because on all models, they are giving a discount of INR 50k in Delhi and Pune. I wish there was a way to share pictures of the same, would have shared it. There is basically no footfall for this. The same sadly is in two-wheeler market.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:35 pm

"Lakhs" is a bit of Chinese for most of us.

From what I'm getting 12 Lakhs rupees is about 16000$.

Isn't there a "green" reason for this tax ? Or maybe it's that high because it's a "luxury" car ? Or imported ?

Here in France there is a car worth the same amount or thereabout, the Dacia Duster, it's an SUV. As I can see it's sold as the Renault Duster in India.

Well for 2020 Dacia/Renault had to stop selling the version with a 1.6 petrol engine, because it emitted too much CO2 and would attract a 20000€ gas guzzler tax, more than the price of the car. That was a 115hp engine, not a sport version.

The base price of 14500€ includes a 20% tax (most goods in France include a 20% VAT).

Now about the scrappage tax, it seems to apply to 20 years old cars, it seems reasonable to me and shouldn't affect the resale value of much younger cars. Here we have a scrappage tax for diesel cars older than 2006 and gas cars older than 2002. But these dates are some years old, so when it started it applied to cars that were about 11-12 years for diesel cars, they had plenty of life in them yet. However since the goal is to reduce city pollution it was done (these same cars had had incentives to be bought in the first place...).
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:54 pm

Aesma wrote:
"Lakhs" is a bit of Chinese for most of us.

From what I'm getting 12 Lakhs rupees is about 16000$.

Isn't there a "green" reason for this tax ? Or maybe it's that high because it's a "luxury" car ? Or imported ?

Here in France there is a car worth the same amount or thereabout, the Dacia Duster, it's an SUV. As I can see it's sold as the Renault Duster in India.

Well for 2020 Dacia/Renault had to stop selling the version with a 1.6 petrol engine, because it emitted too much CO2 and would attract a 20000€ gas guzzler tax, more than the price of the car. That was a 115hp engine, not a sport version.

The base price of 14500€ includes a 20% tax (most goods in France include a 20% VAT).

Now about the scrappage tax, it seems to apply to 20 years old cars, it seems reasonable to me and shouldn't affect the resale value of much younger cars. Here we have a scrappage tax for diesel cars older than 2006 and gas cars older than 2002. But these dates are some years old, so when it started it applied to cars that were about 11-12 years for diesel cars, they had plenty of life in them yet. However since the goal is to reduce city pollution it was done (these same cars had had incentives to be bought in the first place...).


In India it doesn't work like that. In India, 2-3 years ago, the cess was completely revamped, so depending on the length of the car the cess is charged. As far the other taxes is concerned, it doesn't matter if the car is a Maruti Suzuki or a Maruti 800 (these are local manufactured cars made in India) For any car, you would have to pay 28% GST.

https://www.paisabazaar.com/tax/gst-on-cars/

The scrappage policy is not for 20 years but for 10 years. There is a hidden bit that people have not got. By 2030, all petrol and diesel cars are supposed to go to scrapyard. There is also the whole BS-4 vehicles who were stopped from being sold last year. BS-6 was supposed to come out in 2022 but for some reason it was pushed earlier in 2020. So within couple of months lot of new BS-4 vehicles were sold, this was before the pandemic stuck. They got a good bargain as vehicles were sold at 50% off the sticker prices. Lot of people around me including me got the messages on Whatsapp and people did buy them.

When this whole thing was happening the scrappage policy was nowhere in the horizon. This was introduced only a few months back. Now legally you cannot sell your old BS-4 either in primary or secondary market.

https://www.zigwheels.com/news-features ... try/38847/
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:02 pm

Now taxation on both 2-wheelers and 4-wheelers has been such that people are avoiding buying the vehicles -

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 687831.cms

https://m.economictimes.com/industry/au ... 688112.cms?

One part of that is also that GOI has been that they have been levying heavy taxes on all petroleum products and soon supposed to go even further. The central taxation is almost 60% and the excuse given is we need the money to run developmental schemes.

https://auto.economictimes.indiatimes.c ... l/84781960

A good read on the scrappage policy which actually goes a bit into the nauances of things. -

https://vivekkaul.com/2021/03/23/vehicl ... narrative/
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Fri Oct 01, 2021 9:31 pm

All petroleum products at their highest and still going to be higher.

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 455_1.html

https://www.livemint.com/news/india/dom ... 47629.html

While admittedly, there is some pressure from outside, GOI has been taking undue advantage of the same. And while comparing prices, please also compare purchasing power parity that will tell you where we are and where you are.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:24 pm

Yes of course most Indians probably can't afford any kind of car. Which is why it might be easy to tax them.

I think 2030 for an end to the sale/manufacturing of electric car is quite realistic, it is the date some countries have chosen, other have 2035 or 2040, but in practice car manufacturers are already saying they will stop investing in internal combustion engines, so in 2030 most cars available new will probably be electric.

However banning ICE cars altogether is another thing and not realistic at that date. 5-10 more years should be given for people to replace their cars.
 
M564038
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:54 pm

No reason to make fossil cars after 2025.
EVs have currently passed fossils in capability and quality, it is now only a question of production capability.

Aesma wrote:
Yes of course most Indians probably can't afford any kind of car. Which is why it might be easy to tax them.

I think 2030 for an end to the sale/manufacturing of electric car is quite realistic, it is the date some countries have chosen, other have 2035 or 2040, but in practice car manufacturers are already saying they will stop investing in internal combustion engines, so in 2030 most cars available new will probably be electric.

However banning ICE cars altogether is another thing and not realistic at that date. 5-10 more years should be given for people to replace their cars.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:54 pm

You should try buying a car in Malaysia. We pay 10% sales tax, 30% import tax AND excise duty ranging from 75% to 105%, depending on engine capacity. And it's not like Malaysia's purchasing power is any stronger than India. I had to take up a 9 year loan to fund my car purchase. The only way you can buy a "reasonably priced" car is to stick with local brands. But the most popular local brand sucks.

I've compared prices & basically Malaysian car prices are on par with Denmark, though Malaysian average salaries lags behind Denmark.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:25 pm

M564038 wrote:
No reason to make fossil cars after 2025.
EVs have currently passed fossils in capability and quality, it is now only a question of production capability.

Aesma wrote:
Yes of course most Indians probably can't afford any kind of car. Which is why it might be easy to tax them.

I think 2030 for an end to the sale/manufacturing of electric car is quite realistic, it is the date some countries have chosen, other have 2035 or 2040, but in practice car manufacturers are already saying they will stop investing in internal combustion engines, so in 2030 most cars available new will probably be electric.

However banning ICE cars altogether is another thing and not realistic at that date. 5-10 more years should be given for people to replace their cars.


Ok, I just did 870 miles, timed my two fuel stops at 4m43s total elapsed time, no waiting, can any EV recharge three times in 4+43sec? I didn’t think so. I’ve ridden in Tesla’s—junk compared to my Mercedes in fit and finish. I’m not giving up petroleum’s energy content willingly and will restore old gas or diesel cars, if there are no new gas ones.
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:34 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
M564038 wrote:
No reason to make fossil cars after 2025.
EVs have currently passed fossils in capability and quality, it is now only a question of production capability.

Aesma wrote:
Yes of course most Indians probably can't afford any kind of car. Which is why it might be easy to tax them.

I think 2030 for an end to the sale/manufacturing of electric car is quite realistic, it is the date some countries have chosen, other have 2035 or 2040, but in practice car manufacturers are already saying they will stop investing in internal combustion engines, so in 2030 most cars available new will probably be electric.

However banning ICE cars altogether is another thing and not realistic at that date. 5-10 more years should be given for people to replace their cars.


Ok, I just did 870 miles, timed my two fuel stops at 4m43s total elapsed time, no waiting, can any EV recharge three times in 4+43sec? I didn’t think so. I’ve ridden in Tesla’s—junk compared to my Mercedes in fit and finish. I’m not giving up petroleum’s energy content willingly and will restore old gas or diesel cars, if there are no new gas ones.


The problem for you my dear sir is that sooner or later there won't be enough petrol pumps to service the majority as more and more as recently experienced in UK. This sooner or later would be the thing everywhere

https://electrek.co/2021/09/29/the-brit ... ike-crazy/

In many countries, especially in China and Europe, EV has become king of the hill.

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-norway- ... urths-evs/

https://evsandbeyond.co.nz/tesla-model- ... ord-month/

I could give many more links but it would be repeat of the same thing the only difference would be the country.
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:48 am

Aesma wrote:
Yes of course most Indians probably can't afford any kind of car. Which is why it might be easy to tax them.

I think 2030 for an end to the sale/manufacturing of electric car is quite realistic, it is the date some countries have chosen, others have 2035 or 2040, but in practice car manufacturers are already saying they will stop investing in internal combustion engines, so in 2030 most cars available new will probably be electric.

However, banning ICE cars altogether is another thing and not realistic at that date. 5-10 more years should be given for people to replace their cars.


Not really, the Indian car market till 2018 was having 9% CAGR YoY growth till 2018. It is only after that it has stopped growing, and all due to taxes and changes in labor law.

Theoretically, it is still one of the bigger markets but sales have dropped off a cliff since the last few years, Most of it due to Govt. policies, whether it is taxation or labor.

https://www.ibef.org/industry/india-automobiles.aspx


https://www.thehindu.com/business/Econo ... 379174.ece

This was in 2017, when it was 6.1, now it is 10% +

https://www.bloombergquint.com/economy- ... -ceda-cmie

https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/19 ... id/1829312

While part of the blame can be given to the pandemic, but not all. For e.g. in the last couple of years, the top companies have fired a lot of their staff and have given dividends to shareholders. Nobody is putting any new money as existing capacities in companies is not being utilized even 50%.

Even tractor sales which normally are stable have also fallen quite a bit due to rising oil prices, and probably financing issues, as most NBFC's have also burned a lot of fingers.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 679615.cms

In my hometown, even before the pandemic, quite a few Ola and Uber drivers gave their car or was repossessed because they were unable to make the loan repayments to service the machine/s and still make a profit.

Of course the pandemic and the resultant lockdown ensured the last nail in the coffin. Many of them left for villages and haven't returned.
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:49 am

@Aesma, about labor laws, this tells you the story. -

https://www.theweek.in/news/biz-tech/20 ... m-ilo.html
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:08 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
You should try buying a car in Malaysia. We pay 10% sales tax, 30% import tax AND excise duty ranging from 75% to 105%, depending on engine capacity. And it's not like Malaysia's purchasing power is any stronger than India. I had to take up a 9 year loan to fund my car purchase. The only way you can buy a "reasonably priced" car is to stick with local brands. But the most popular local brand sucks.

I've compared prices & basically Malaysian car prices are on par with Denmark, though Malaysian average salaries lags behind Denmark.


What you are talking are imported cars, if it were imported cars, then I would have agreed, but what I am sharing about are not cars but bikes and all of them made in India. Maruti for e.g. has two manufacturing plants in India, The same about the bikes I have shared, all of them manufactured in India.

https://www.marutisuzuki.com/corporate/ ... ll-offices

I have a friend who used to work there, he had worked there almost for a decade. The factory used to work 24x7 25 days a month or sometimes even beyond that. Whatever time was left was just due for maintenance of machines on factory floor and whatever downtime they had to give to people according to Factories Act, 1948.

https://labour.gov.in/sites/default/fil ... t_1948.pdf

Now since last 2-3 years, both the factories worked sometimes 3 or 4 days in a week. The rest of the time was forced holidays for the employees/labor without pay. Headcount at both the factories fell over time as many people could not handle the uncertainty day in and day out. And still the situation has not improved. If you look above, I have shared the statistics about what was supposed to happen, or what was happening before Govt. introduced all these new taxes. The Indian market was growing CAGR at 9% YoY. That should have been music to years for all, but now since the last few years, all are down in the dumps.

I know of a showroom which specialized both in cars and scooters and I had seen that place since say last 30-35 years, The place was 35,000 ft. showroom in one of the poshest areas of the town. They closed down 4 years ago. Till date, nobody has come to occupy that place. While this is anecdotal, but it does exemplify what I mean. And they had at least 100 odd people on the rolls on the showroom. This included drivers, security people, mechanics, sales staff, kitchen people and so on and so forth. I know and knew the manager of that showroom and had visited his place a couple of times.

Few months back, ran into him, he is now living in a 1 RK apartment, selling papad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papadam, no sign of wife or the child. Haven't dared ask him about it till date. :(
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:30 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
M564038 wrote:
No reason to make fossil cars after 2025.
EVs have currently passed fossils in capability and quality, it is now only a question of production capability.

Aesma wrote:
Yes of course most Indians probably can't afford any kind of car. Which is why it might be easy to tax them.

I think 2030 for an end to the sale/manufacturing of electric car is quite realistic, it is the date some countries have chosen, other have 2035 or 2040, but in practice car manufacturers are already saying they will stop investing in internal combustion engines, so in 2030 most cars available new will probably be electric.

However, banning ICE cars altogether is another thing and not realistic at that date. 5-10 more years should be given for people to replace their cars.


Ok, I just did 870 miles, timed my two fuel stops at 4m43s total elapsed time, no waiting, can any EV recharge three times in 4+43sec? I didn’t think so. I’ve ridden in Tesla’s—junk compared to my Mercedes in fit and finish. I’m not giving up petroleum’s energy content willingly and will restore old gas or diesel cars, if there are no new gas ones.


There is another aspect that you are not thinking about.

https://www.engadget.com/abb-claims-its ... 31643.html

Both the supercharging network and the battery chemistry is gonna go up on up only. For many car owners, access to cheap electricity either owned or from off-peak charging hours where that is available (not in India) but do know that is there in many countries makes it a much cheaper operation for people to make the decision. Quite a few also invest in solar wall chargers, which lessens not only the charges for the car but also lessens general utility bills. And again, that industry and technology is still a baby and has a lot of potential and would go only up. I was seeing a video just yesterday or the day before where one of the companies was giving 4-5 year charging free along with all the other subsidies State gives.

And whatever subsidies they receive is a just a bucket compared to what the Oil and gas industry has been receiving for decades. https://www.fuelfreedom.org/oil-company-subsidies/

And this is when these fuels are harmful both for people and the environment. https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-ca ... ancer.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5800116/

This happened last year in UK

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-55330945

Now if you are still willing to die for your belief, or endanger your family for the same, be my guest, I have absolutely no issues on the same.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:38 am

US oil industry has about $181 billion in revenues, the “subsidies” which are arguably tax deductions available to any industry, are $10 billion, pretty small potatoes. Oil powers the world, we wouldn’t have our modern society without it and that’s not changing nearly as fast as you hope. In any case, EVs aren’t pollution-free.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:08 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
US oil industry has about $181 billion in revenues, the “subsidies” which are arguably tax deductions available to any industry, are $10 billion, pretty small potatoes. Oil powers the world, we wouldn’t have our modern society without it and that’s not changing nearly as fast as you hope. In any case, EVs aren’t pollution-free.


Developing countries are trying to spur that change along for their own sake - that's not something to poo-poo or discourage. As many on the right argue, the more they do so, the less hurry for people in the US to come into the fold.
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:46 am

US and UK are two countries which have been known for being the worst offenders when it comes to pollution -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg-ZH4-iFYE

Even if one goes back in history in 17th and 18th century in so many books especially for UK, you find descriptions of soot-filled air. That is because they were using wood. Then they shifted to coal. UK had a lot of forest which they themselves deforested in greed for power. Ship-building, one of the greatest polluters, was done by UK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IDN9gTAtjg also shares a lot about that era.

Ironically that same country is gonna be the host for Cop26

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/wh ... ar-AAOFOO9

And while Europe and China have been racing ahead with conversion to EV, US has been a willful laggard. Although some points to Biden for the infrastructure plan, although it is till too little, too late. And till date, they haven't made any overtures of sharing either battery technology or anything with India or any other nation that I know of. :(

2 people from U.S. had shown what was possible. See Long Way up. https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/c ... ay-up.html And this was few years back when there wasn't either enough awareness nor arguably will to invest. In some places, they still don't as they never had any plans for EV.

China meanwhile, has been racing ahead in the game. The number 1 and number 4 battery markers, both of them vertically integrated, are from China. CATL and BYD. And probably in few years, it would be number three battery maker.

BYD history - https://insideevs.com/news/342760/byd-p ... ine-years/
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:01 am

Some people did share what is possible. For e.g. https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/c ... ay-up.html . This is story of two people who have a sense of adventure and travel the whole of South America (beautiful places) and are on modified EV bikes (Harley Davidson). That benefited the company a lot as they got lot of real world experience in for their bikes. Even Rivian, the trucks which were used got lot of benefits. Now Rivian is there for sale, as well as livewire from Harley Davidson .

https://rivian.com/
https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/m ... ctric.html

Of course, many companies and countries which have huge legacies are uncomfortable from this change. Toyota being a prime example and the ads they produced. Most of them they had to take take off the air as people responded negatively. How does a company which makes plans for 50-100 years is unable to see this is beyond me.
 
B777LRF
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:26 am

Well, look at it this way: As a developing nation with a booming economy, and being the biggest recipient of foreign aid in the world, India obviously needs to scrape together all the money it can, in order to fund vital projects. Such as, you know, a space program, a nuclear missile program, and a naval program including aircraft carriers in order to protect against the proud seafaring nation of ...... Pakistan.

Kind regards from a bloke who lives in a country with a car tax of 105% + 25% VAT on top of that. EV cars exempt from the 105% tax; guess what's selling like hot cakes. Or, rather, would sell like hot cakes if it wasn't for a pandemic and a water shortage in Taiwan.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:51 pm

Funny about China, all hat and no cattle on coal,

https://e360.yale.edu/features/despite- ... coal-spree

Or,

https://time.com/6090732/china-coal-pow ... emissions/

Energy, more accurately power, makes the global economy. Petroleum is so energy-dense, in most applications it’ll be hard to beat for a long time.

Asia, including China and India, are the major polluters, not the EU, UK or US.

https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:15 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Asia, including China and India, are the major polluters, not the EU, UK or US.

https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions


They are, but the worst climate damage is done by Indonesia and Brazil - clearcutting irreplaceable rainforest on a vast scale for short term palm oil and cattle raising gain.
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:26 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Well, look at it this way: As a developing nation with a booming economy, and being the biggest recipient of foreign aid in the world, India obviously needs to scrape together all the money it can, in order to fund vital projects. Such as, you know, a space program, a nuclear missile program, and a naval program including aircraft carriers in order to protect against the proud seafaring nation of ...... Pakistan.

Kind regards from a bloke who lives in a country with a car tax of 105% + 25% VAT on top of that. EV cars exempt from the 105% tax; guess what's selling like hot cakes. Or, rather, would sell like hot cakes if it wasn't for a pandemic and a water shortage in Taiwan.


You have put too many unrelated questions in one single post, so let me take them apart one by one in multiple posts.

As far as the foreign aid position is concerned, it has been more than a decade that we stopped using foreign aid from other countries. Some gestures of good will do happen between countries, but this is much different from what you want to imply. You also seem to either not know or willfully not share that India had loans from IMF and World Bank at exorbitant rates. And the reason they did that was only for American interests, not India's. There is a whole history of American intervention in different countries. A partial list can be found here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_i ... ted_States

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhZfQLsxj6g - This also tells why other countries are choosing China over U.S. even though they know that they may become Chinese thumb.
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:34 pm

Now as far as Nuclear Missile program is concerned, can you name India as having used it on any other nation. The only nation that we know that used such Weapons of Mass destruction is again United States and that was against Japan. Please have a look at these documentaries and then tell me about India.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibakusha#Documentaries

The above tells how the Japanese survivors were treated by the American doctors. Their aim was not to ease the suffering of the many, but to see how much they had suffered and share the results back home (U.S.). They gave placebos to the victims instead of medicine. And they fooled the Japanese Govt. for years. It is only after the American doctors left that the Japanese started looking after their own and trying to fix the unfixable :(
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:49 pm

Now coming to the aircraft carrier issue, dunno when you last saw the map of India. Here let me make a bit easier for you.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3hYpHVUdr48/ ... eanmap.gif

As even a fourth-standard child can see the more than 2/3rd of the borders in India are facing the sea than the land. If anything, I would argue that India does not spend enough on her naval assets or air instead of Army. The Army gets the biggest piece of the defence pie. And not to forget that we are next to one of the biggest commercial shipping lanes in the world. And how you can forget the 2008 Mumbai attacks, the attackers came through sea.

https://www.andrewerickson.com/2021/07/ ... the-world/?

The above long read tells you how the Chinese are now kind of the hill. The Japanese at one time had superior naval presence, which was destroyed due to American intervention. I am sure many Americans today would be wishing that they had not destroyed Japan as much as they did in multiple areas, but that probably is another discussion altogether.
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:58 pm

Now coming to the assertion about Taiwan, most EV cars are being sold in China, made fully in China, Taiwan has no role to play in it.

https://ibb.co/RSKHttp

BYD and Toyota are the only two car manufacturers who have their own chip fabrication plants. Tesla is apparently going to be the third to have its own. As the data shows in the above picture, the Chinese are moving briskly. If anything as this oil and gas article shows they are scared of what the Chinese are doing and hence putting all sorts of misinformation in order to scare the people.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-Gene ... -Fast.html
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:03 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Funny about China, all hat and no cattle on coal,

https://e360.yale.edu/features/despite- ... coal-spree

Or,

https://time.com/6090732/china-coal-pow ... emissions/

Energy, more accurately power, makes the global economy. Petroleum is so energy-dense, in most applications it’ll be hard to beat for a long time.

Asia, including China and India, are the major polluters, not the EU, UK or US.

https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions


I think I have shared this, have you gone through it.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... -Document3

Please go through this document first, and then we can talk which country has been more polluting or not. And this is by Royal Shell own scientists, not anybody else's.
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:07 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Asia, including China and India, are the major polluters, not the EU, UK or US.

https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions


They are, but the worst climate damage is done by Indonesia and Brazil - clearcutting irreplaceable rainforest on a vast scale for short term palm oil and cattle raising gain.


This I happen to agree with. Especially the bit about palm oil as the current Indian Govt. also has some plans about the same. And this is when we know that palm oil needs gallons of water. And similarly to Brazil, they also want to cut down the forests which are lungs of nature.

https://askinglot.com/what-crops-requir ... t-of-water
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:11 pm

pune wrote:
Now coming to the assertion about Taiwan, most EV cars are being sold in China, made fully in China, Taiwan has no role to play in it.

https://ibb.co/RSKHttp

BYD and Toyota are the only two car manufacturers who have their own chip fabrication plants. Tesla is apparently going to be the third to have its own. As the data shows in the above picture, the Chinese are moving briskly. If anything as this oil and gas article shows they are scared of what the Chinese are doing and hence putting all sorts of misinformation in order to scare the people.

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-Gene ... -Fast.html


In fact, from what the latest I have been reading, all the Japanese giants, Honda, Toyota and Nissan best automobile engineers are being poached by the Chinese and being given far better opportunities to work on EV's than the Japanese. Of course, all the three giants above are anti-EV so they are losing some of their best people and probably writing their own death warrants in the process. :(

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Automo ... automakers
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:27 pm

This was from Nissan about couple of years back.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/busi ... 18361.html

And the Sunderland factory did go kaput the last I heard.
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:39 pm

Interest in EV from UK reported just 4 days ago -

https://countryask.com/investing/online ... ic-buying/
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:44 pm

Just saw this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5LKU6bWScc

If the price was right, this would sell by boatloads for sure in Asia and Africa as well and all places where sun is high. All those people who moan about range, that is finished. And I'm sure such concepts are just gonna grow more and more.
 
M564038
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 6:53 pm

The thing is that people very rarely drives 870 Miles, even fewer expecting to have no breaks. I would say close to 0%

As for your Tesla hate: Maybe you should just buy the new EQS, then? It is looking good! No one forces you to buy Tesla. Everyone will go EV only within very few years so, you’ll have a lot to choose from.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
M564038 wrote:
No reason to make fossil cars after 2025.
EVs have currently passed fossils in capability and quality, it is now only a question of production capability.

Aesma wrote:
Yes of course most Indians probably can't afford any kind of car. Which is why it might be easy to tax them.

I think 2030 for an end to the sale/manufacturing of electric car is quite realistic, it is the date some countries have chosen, other have 2035 or 2040, but in practice car manufacturers are already saying they will stop investing in internal combustion engines, so in 2030 most cars available new will probably be electric.

However banning ICE cars altogether is another thing and not realistic at that date. 5-10 more years should be given for people to replace their cars.


Ok, I just did 870 miles, timed my two fuel stops at 4m43s total elapsed time, no waiting, can any EV recharge three times in 4+43sec? I didn’t think so. I’ve ridden in Tesla’s—junk compared to my Mercedes in fit and finish. I’m not giving up petroleum’s energy content willingly and will restore old gas or diesel cars, if there are no new gas ones.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:28 pm

M564038 wrote:
The thing is that people very rarely drives 870 Miles, even fewer expecting to have no breaks. I would say close to 0%

As for your Tesla hate: Maybe you should just buy the new EQS, then? It is looking good! No one forces you to buy Tesla. Everyone will go EV only within very few years so, you’ll have a lot to choose from.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
M564038 wrote:
No reason to make fossil cars after 2025.
EVs have currently passed fossils in capability and quality, it is now only a question of production capability.



Ok, I just did 870 miles, timed my two fuel stops at 4m43s total elapsed time, no waiting, can any EV recharge three times in 4+43sec? I didn’t think so. I’ve ridden in Tesla’s—junk compared to my Mercedes in fit and finish. I’m not giving up petroleum’s energy content willingly and will restore old gas or diesel cars, if there are no new gas ones.


That 870 miles was over 3 days, I don’t want to waste an hour or two finding a charger, waiting for it to available for me and sitting during the charging. I’ve seen this act a lot at Tesla sites. Stupid waste of time when there are better options. It’s a whole lot more than 0% of driving done like that; I do it every month or two and know dozens of similar people. I do a 325 mile one-day round trip monthly, in winter or summer.

As I said, lots of restorers and gasoline will be available for a long time.
 
M564038
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:18 pm

1340km over 3 days? Thats nothing. Not only can you recharge at every hotel during the night, making most new EVs handsomely having enough range your daily leg, but the new cars also charges at 250-350Kw, which means that your 4 minute break will give you about a quarter of your daily need.

The new Mercedes S series could do your trip with about 1 charge-up.

We are down to 3% and 2% for newpure petrol and diesel cars respectively now in our long, wintery, dark, cold country with bad roads. There are a lot of people that was thinking like you 3 years ago, laughing of their former self right now, I can assure you.
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
M564038 wrote:
The thing is that people very rarely drives 870 Miles, even fewer expecting to have no breaks. I would say close to 0%

As for your Tesla hate: Maybe you should just buy the new EQS, then? It is looking good! No one forces you to buy Tesla. Everyone will go EV only within very few years so, you’ll have a lot to choose from.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Ok, I just did 870 miles, timed my two fuel stops at 4m43s total elapsed time, no waiting, can any EV recharge three times in 4+43sec? I didn’t think so. I’ve ridden in Tesla’s—junk compared to my Mercedes in fit and finish. I’m not giving up petroleum’s energy content willingly and will restore old gas or diesel cars, if there are no new gas ones.


That 870 miles was over 3 days, I don’t want to waste an hour or two finding a charger, waiting for it to available for me and sitting during the charging. I’ve seen this act a lot at Tesla sites. Stupid waste of time when there are better options. It’s a whole lot more than 0% of driving done like that; I do it every month or two and know dozens of similar people. I do a 325 mile one-day round trip monthly, in winter or summer.

As I said, lots of restorers and gasoline will be available for a long time.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:44 am

Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:40 pm

M564038 wrote:
1340km over 3 days? Thats nothing. Not only can you recharge at every hotel during the night, making most new EVs handsomely having enough range your daily leg, but the new cars also charges at 250-350Kw, which means that your 4 minute break will give you about a quarter of your daily need.

The new Mercedes S series could do your trip with about 1 charge-up.

We are down to 3% and 2% for newpure petrol and diesel cars respectively now in our long, wintery, dark, cold country with bad roads. There are a lot of people that was thinking like you 3 years ago, laughing of their former self right now, I can assure you.
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
M564038 wrote:
The thing is that people very rarely drives 870 Miles, even fewer expecting to have no breaks. I would say close to 0%

As for your Tesla hate: Maybe you should just buy the new EQS, then? It is looking good! No one forces you to buy Tesla. Everyone will go EV only within very few years so, you’ll have a lot to choose from.



That 870 miles was over 3 days, I don’t want to waste an hour or two finding a charger, waiting for it to available for me and sitting during the charging. I’ve seen this act a lot at Tesla sites. Stupid waste of time when there are better options. It’s a whole lot more than 0% of driving done like that; I do it every month or two and know dozens of similar people. I do a 325 mile one-day round trip monthly, in winter or summer.

As I said, lots of restorers and gasoline will be available for a long time.


Not a charger near my hotel, but I’m not changing anyway.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:10 pm

M564038 wrote:
No reason to make fossil cars after 2025.
EVs have currently passed fossils in capability and quality, it is now only a question of production capability.


There is no cheap, capable electric car. By capable I mean decently sized and ranged. Something like a 15000$ Nissan Versa.

And in other parts of the world there are much cheaper gas cars than that.
 
M564038
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:10 pm

It will be a charger at your hotel in about 2.5seconds, and yes, you will be using it;-)
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
M564038 wrote:
1340km over 3 days? Thats nothing. Not only can you recharge at every hotel during the night, making most new EVs handsomely having enough range your daily leg, but the new cars also charges at 250-350Kw, which means that your 4 minute break will give you about a quarter of your daily need.

The new Mercedes S series could do your trip with about 1 charge-up.

We are down to 3% and 2% for newpure petrol and diesel cars respectively now in our long, wintery, dark, cold country with bad roads. There are a lot of people that was thinking like you 3 years ago, laughing of their former self right now, I can assure you.
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

That 870 miles was over 3 days, I don’t want to waste an hour or two finding a charger, waiting for it to available for me and sitting during the charging. I’ve seen this act a lot at Tesla sites. Stupid waste of time when there are better options. It’s a whole lot more than 0% of driving done like that; I do it every month or two and know dozens of similar people. I do a 325 mile one-day round trip monthly, in winter or summer.

As I said, lots of restorers and gasoline will be available for a long time.


Not a charger near my hotel, but I’m not changing anyway.
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:31 pm

Aesma wrote:
M564038 wrote:
No reason to make fossil cars after 2025.
EVs have currently passed fossils in capability and quality, it is now only a question of production capability.


There is no cheap, capable electric car. By capable I mean decently sized and ranged. Something like a 15000$ Nissan Versa.

And in other parts of the world there are much cheaper gas cars than that.


By beginning of next year or at the most in the middle of next year, you should get a flood of Chinese cars which hit that price point and even lower. Of course, the moment they hit that, your expectations will be higher. But that is human nature, the better we have, the better we want. As far as superchargers are concerned, I just read today of a few coming up with 450 KW and on LFP. The upside of LFP is you can charge from 0-80 % without any battery degradation, the downside is the density. But again, work on both is going on. And even Elon Musk tweeted just a few days back that the future is LFP rather than the in-house solution they have Li-on. I am sure he has got quite a number of researchers researching into various battery technologies, both short-term and long-term.

For the gentleman above, you can look at all the markets around the world, the car market is shrinking, the trend is unmistakable but EV in a shrinking market they are going up. Just read about Germany today, last to last year it was 3% of the market, last year it jumped to 7% and this year almost 21% and this is when the rest of the car market is on downhill. Tells you something, whether you want to hear it or not.

https://news.yahoo.com/vw-labour-boss-w ... 10665.html

The above itself should tell you something. But if you wanna remain deaf, as the gentleman above shared, be our guest, nobody is forcing you.
 
M564038
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:39 am

Yes, The chinese have about 30-40 models for the export market already. The Norwegian market, which hadn’t seen a chinese car 2 years ago, now have a considerable chinese marketshare. And what does the US have on the market outside Tesla? The Chevrolet Bolt?
EV-denial isn’t good for the US ! The american Fossil Lobby is hurting their own country badly.

pune wrote:
Aesma wrote:
M564038 wrote:
No reason to make fossil cars after 2025.
EVs have currently passed fossils in capability and quality, it is now only a question of production capability.


There is no cheap, capable electric car. By capable I mean decently sized and ranged. Something like a 15000$ Nissan Versa.

And in other parts of the world there are much cheaper gas cars than that.


By beginning of next year or at the most in the middle of next year, you should get a flood of Chinese cars which hit that price point and even lower. Of course, the moment they hit that, your expectations will be higher. But that is human nature, the better we have, the better we want. As far as superchargers are concerned, I just read today of a few coming up with 450 KW and on LFP. The upside of LFP is you can charge from 0-80 % without any battery degradation, the downside is the density. But again, work on both is going on. And even Elon Musk tweeted just a few days back that the future is LFP rather than the in-house solution they have Li-on. I am sure he has got quite a number of researchers researching into various battery technologies, both short-term and long-term.

For the gentleman above, you can look at all the markets around the world, the car market is shrinking, the trend is unmistakable but EV in a shrinking market they are going up. Just read about Germany today, last to last year it was 3% of the market, last year it jumped to 7% and this year almost 21% and this is when the rest of the car market is on downhill. Tells you something, whether you want to hear it or not.

https://news.yahoo.com/vw-labour-boss-w ... 10665.html

The above itself should tell you something. But if you wanna remain deaf, as the gentleman above shared, be our guest, nobody is forcing you.
 
pune
Topic Author
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:49 am

We would continue on this topic for sure, but could some or all of you also share your experience or what you know of business people experience as per taxation law in your country. I have made a topic for the same at viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1465461
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:02 am

M564038 wrote:
Yes, The chinese have about 30-40 models for the export market already. The Norwegian market, which hadn’t seen a chinese car 2 years ago, now have a considerable chinese marketshare. And what does the US have on the market outside Tesla? The Chevrolet Bolt?
EV-denial isn’t good for the US ! The american Fossil Lobby is hurting their own country badly.

pune wrote:
Aesma wrote:

There is no cheap, capable electric car. By capable I mean decently sized and ranged. Something like a 15000$ Nissan Versa.

And in other parts of the world there are much cheaper gas cars than that.


By beginning of next year or at the most in the middle of next year, you should get a flood of Chinese cars which hit that price point and even lower. Of course, the moment they hit that, your expectations will be higher. But that is human nature, the better we have, the better we want. As far as superchargers are concerned, I just read today of a few coming up with 450 KW and on LFP. The upside of LFP is you can charge from 0-80 % without any battery degradation, the downside is the density. But again, work on both is going on. And even Elon Musk tweeted just a few days back that the future is LFP rather than the in-house solution they have Li-on. I am sure he has got quite a number of researchers researching into various battery technologies, both short-term and long-term.

For the gentleman above, you can look at all the markets around the world, the car market is shrinking, the trend is unmistakable but EV in a shrinking market they are going up. Just read about Germany today, last to last year it was 3% of the market, last year it jumped to 7% and this year almost 21% and this is when the rest of the car market is on downhill. Tells you something, whether you want to hear it or not.

https://news.yahoo.com/vw-labour-boss-w ... 10665.html

The above itself should tell you something. But if you wanna remain deaf, as the gentleman above shared, be our guest, nobody is forcing you.


China has almost 400 odd companies who are in the whole range of services for EV manufacturing. While it probably will be a long task, there are at least 4-5 that we know would be making sizeable impact on western markets like Europe and even States. BYD, Great Wall Motor, GAC, Nio, Xpeng, SAIC, MG at least these are known brands that I know. And each of them have either 4-5 models right now or will be launching 4-5 models by early next year. So competition will be intense and there will be pressure on prices.
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:04 am

Now for the gentleman/lady of them wwho was curious and wanted know about battery prices and battery packs, een that has declined and will continue to decline over the next few years.

https://news.mit.edu/2021/lithium-ion-b ... costs-0323

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/12 ... st-decade/
 
pune
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:17 am

pune wrote:
Now for the gentleman/lady of them wwho was curious and wanted know about battery prices and battery packs, een that has declined and will continue to decline over the next few years.

https://news.mit.edu/2021/lithium-ion-b ... costs-0323

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/12 ... st-decade/


Same, similar data by another source -

https://ourworldindata.org/battery-price-decline

So battery packs will continue to decline but there is a caveat, but this caveat applies to capitalism itself.

The reason they have declined and are declining is due to competition. But if there is consolidation in the market then it may go up. This has already happened in case of CPU and memory market (RAM) . In the CPU market, we have only Intel and AMD with Intel having more problems than AMD on their SOC. There was a time when Via was also there. Now it's no more. This has resulted in less-efficient chips and higher prices. Even motherboard vendors who at one time were dime-a-dozen are now only 3-4. The same consolidation has happened in memory markets. The so-called chip shortage. Both Intel and AMD have been investing less in making new fabs. If the pandemic hadn't put up the demand, they were expecting demand to grow between 5-8% and till 2025 had no plans of manufacturing new fabs except one or two. Now due to the pandemic lot of annoucements have been made, but we will have to see how many of those announcements become reality. Meanwhile, both motherboard and memory vendors have kept strategic silence over such issues. They are the ones who will benefit the most.
 
M564038
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:35 am

Yes, I can look out my window and see numerous MG, Xpeng and Nio EVs on the parking lot outside my building. Behind that I see BYD electric city busses.
2 years ago I hadn’t ever seen a chinese car.

pune wrote:
M564038 wrote:
Yes, The chinese have about 30-40 models for the export market already. The Norwegian market, which hadn’t seen a chinese car 2 years ago, now have a considerable chinese marketshare. And what does the US have on the market outside Tesla? The Chevrolet Bolt?
EV-denial isn’t good for the US ! The american Fossil Lobby is hurting their own country badly.

pune wrote:

By beginning of next year or at the most in the middle of next year, you should get a flood of Chinese cars which hit that price point and even lower. Of course, the moment they hit that, your expectations will be higher. But that is human nature, the better we have, the better we want. As far as superchargers are concerned, I just read today of a few coming up with 450 KW and on LFP. The upside of LFP is you can charge from 0-80 % without any battery degradation, the downside is the density. But again, work on both is going on. And even Elon Musk tweeted just a few days back that the future is LFP rather than the in-house solution they have Li-on. I am sure he has got quite a number of researchers researching into various battery technologies, both short-term and long-term.

For the gentleman above, you can look at all the markets around the world, the car market is shrinking, the trend is unmistakable but EV in a shrinking market they are going up. Just read about Germany today, last to last year it was 3% of the market, last year it jumped to 7% and this year almost 21% and this is when the rest of the car market is on downhill. Tells you something, whether you want to hear it or not.

https://news.yahoo.com/vw-labour-boss-w ... 10665.html

The above itself should tell you something. But if you wanna remain deaf, as the gentleman above shared, be our guest, nobody is forcing you.


China has almost 400 odd companies who are in the whole range of services for EV manufacturing. While it probably will be a long task, there are at least 4-5 that we know would be making sizeable impact on western markets like Europe and even States. BYD, Great Wall Motor, GAC, Nio, Xpeng, SAIC, MG at least these are known brands that I know. And each of them have either 4-5 models right now or will be launching 4-5 models by early next year. So competition will be intense and there will be pressure on prices.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:35 am

Any of them cost 15000$/€ ?

We have an MG here, Xpeng and Nio I don't think so yet.

The only cheap electric is the Dacia Spring, made in China, and based on the made in India Renault Kwid. The Kwid was launched at 2.57 lakh rupees ($3,884). The Spring is sold at 17000€. You can get it at 12600€ thanks to the incentive for electric cars.

It's ultra slow, ultra cheap inside, bad at everything, doesn't go far, doesn't have fast charging... If you go on the highway with it you start sweating in fear. Basically it's only for the city or going from one village to the next in the countryside. And even then, at least change the original chinese tires that are an abomination.
 
M564038
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:50 am

I was about to mention the Dacia spring. The Dacia brand is Rumenian, owned by Renault.
It is comming onto the market here for $15,000, it has been delayed on the nothern european market because they wanted to test it in real winter conditions and be transparent about it’s limited heater and range.

It has a 28kWh hour battery, which is the same as the 2015 to 2019 era Leafs, Ioniqs, egolfs etc. which at that time cost $30-35,000. So prices are going doooown.
This’ll give a practical winter range of 170Km(comparing with the old Ioniq), 30kW fast charging is low, but for a local daily driver with home charging, it is more than enough and an excellent offering. At the same time the range is enough You could take it long distance if you really had to. You’ll spend some time charging, but you’ll get there.

Another example of prices dropping relative to capability, is the Ioniq 5. it is a much more capable car than the 2018 Jaguar iPace, and also half the price. The Ioniq 5 has almost as much luggage space as the Tesla X. (Check out Bjørn Nyland’s «banana box test» on YouTube)
Aesma wrote:
Any of them cost 15000$/€ ?

We have an MG here, Xpeng and Nio I don't think so yet.

The only cheap electric is the Dacia Spring, made in China, and based on the made in India Renault Kwid. The Kwid was launched at 2.57 lakh rupees ($3,884). The Spring is sold at 17000€. You can get it at 12600€ thanks to the incentive for electric cars.

It's ultra slow, ultra cheap inside, bad at everything, doesn't go far, doesn't have fast charging... If you go on the highway with it you start sweating in fear. Basically it's only for the city or going from one village to the next in the countryside. And even then, at least change the original chinese tires that are an abomination.
 
M564038
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Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:40 am

And BTW. Try to avoid the expression «Lakh», it is indian only and not used in international english.
You should write is as INR 500,000 to be understood on an international web-forum.

Aesma wrote:
Any of them cost 15000$/€ ?

We have an MG here, Xpeng and Nio I don't think so yet.

The only cheap electric is the Dacia Spring, made in China, and based on the made in India Renault Kwid. The Kwid was launched at 2.57 lakh rupees ($3,884). The Spring is sold at 17000€. You can get it at 12600€ thanks to the incentive for electric cars.

It's ultra slow, ultra cheap inside, bad at everything, doesn't go far, doesn't have fast charging... If you go on the highway with it you start sweating in fear. Basically it's only for the city or going from one village to the next in the countryside. And even then, at least change the original chinese tires that are an abomination.
 
pune
Topic Author
Posts: 834
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Four wheelers and taxation in India.

Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:47 pm

Aesma wrote:
Any of them cost 15000$/€ ?

We have an MG here, Xpeng and Nio I don't think so yet.

The only cheap electric is the Dacia Spring, made in China, and based on the made in India Renault Kwid. The Kwid was launched at 2.57 lakh rupees ($3,884). The Spring is sold at 17000€. You can get it at 12600€ thanks to the incentive for electric cars.

It's ultra slow, ultra cheap inside, bad at everything, doesn't go far, doesn't have fast charging... If you go on the highway with it you start sweating in fear. Basically it's only for the city or going from one village to the next in the countryside. And even then, at least change the original chinese tires that are an abomination.


In India, it is hopeless to think of any outside brand surviving. When Maruti itself can't survive then don't have hopes for others.

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