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Aaron747
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America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 7:37 am

So earlier in the year, we had an interesting discussion about whether or not the behavior seen on the daily over the last year and a half constitutes mental illness. Opinions were shared and there were some interesting perspectives on whether the divisions and issues people were dealing with justified their behavior or not.

Now, commentators on both left and right opposed to some of this behavior have been terming the issue as America becoming a nation lacking seriousness, whether the issue is calling for defunding police (police are obviously necessary) or opposing masks/vaccines (these are obviously necessary to curtail the pandemic). The issue is that large numbers of people are taking highly emotional positions on things that are both illogical and unreasonable, from a big picture view. There are just too many examples of adults letting these beliefs get the better of them in recent months, and behaving irrationally whether at the bank, at work, at stores, or at school board meetings.

This one in particular caught my attention and is a good example of this. Several nurses were recently dismissed from a hospital in Kentucky for missing a deadline to be vaccinated. One of them recorded her interactions with HR and then a management nurse and security officer the next day. Of course, she posted them online to garner sympathy. The episode can be seen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUEw0L8VC7o

Video from the Daily Caller.

A couple things, if a serious person were preparing for this possible outcome, they would have consulted an attorney or checked their state laws regarding termination. Kentucky is an at-will state, and termination letters are not required by law. She also denies that the security officer has the authority to limit the dismissed nurses' access to the building, when they naturally do. These are simply irrational actions we would not expect from reasonable adults who have been in well-paid occupations requiring high professionalism.

I am not sure how long these attitudes can prevail and things still function properly. It seems like there needs to be more public discussion of what to do about this kind of behavior - it also sets a terrible example for kids.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:05 am

Aaron747 wrote:
I am not sure how long these attitudes can prevail and things still function properly. It seems like there needs to be more public discussion of what to do about this kind of behavior - it also sets a terrible example for kids.


That is a bit over-dramatization on your part, don't you think. And besides, if you don't want that kind of behavior, perhaps you should look at the root cause, not the expression in behavior.
 
jetwet1
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:12 am

Jump on YouTube, search for "Sovereign Citizen police stop".

There are a large number of people who think they know the law and end up surprised when reality runs up and punches them in the face.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:28 am

Dutchy wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
I am not sure how long these attitudes can prevail and things still function properly. It seems like there needs to be more public discussion of what to do about this kind of behavior - it also sets a terrible example for kids.


That is a bit over-dramatization on your part, don't you think. And besides, if you don't want that kind of behavior, perhaps you should look at the root cause, not the expression in behavior.


I don't think so at all. This is a hot topic right now - moms in our circle are PO'd that other anti-mask/vaccine mothers shouting obscenities at school board members all over TV are showing kids it's okay to throw tantrums to get people to buckle. I mean the folks involved claim they are fighting against tyranny, but they have obviously never been exposed to the real thing.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:30 am

jetwet1 wrote:
Jump on YouTube, search for "Sovereign Citizen police stop".

There are a large number of people who think they know the law and end up surprised when reality runs up and punches them in the face.


Yeah that's another good example. The cop in this video did a particularly good job shutting down this woman who thought his traffic stop was out of line:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZCyUYanGBY
 
LabQuest
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:33 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
These are simply irrational actions we would not expect from reasonable adults who have been in well-paid occupations requiring high professionalism.



Oh you sweet summer child.

I've seen Doctors, pilots, lawyers, etc act a fool. One Delta pilot I drove to the airport had an info wars sticker on his luggage.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:51 pm

LabQuest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
These are simply irrational actions we would not expect from reasonable adults who have been in well-paid occupations requiring high professionalism.


Oh you sweet summer child.

I've seen Doctors, pilots, lawyers, etc act a fool. One Delta pilot I drove to the airport had an info wars sticker on his luggage.


So have I - but those are one-offs. Now you have multiple professionals in the same communities/states acting this way. This stuff is like a cancer that's growing. It's not like before where we wouldn't know about it - it's on TV often enough that if it keeps up, it just becomes a new normal.
 
LabQuest
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:10 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
These are simply irrational actions we would not expect from reasonable adults who have been in well-paid occupations requiring high professionalism.


Oh you sweet summer child.

I've seen Doctors, pilots, lawyers, etc act a fool. One Delta pilot I drove to the airport had an info wars sticker on his luggage.


So have I - but those are one-offs. Now you have multiple professionals in the same communities/states acting this way. This stuff is like a cancer that's growing. It's not like before where we wouldn't know about it - it's on TV often enough that if it keeps up, it just becomes a new normal.


I think its always been going on. The main difference is now everyone has a camera in their pocket so we see more day to day life around the world and mistake it for something unusual.
 
Virtual737
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:28 pm

LabQuest wrote:

I think its always been going on. The main difference is now everyone has a camera in their pocket so we see more day to day life around the world and mistake it for something unusual.


Even if accurate, that is exactly what makes it different, and dangerous..

A million loonies wandering aimlessly alone in a nation of 300 million don't really get heard. Allow them a platform (the internet) to find each other, promoted by a charlatan such as Alex Jones who is in it for nothing more than the money and celebrity and you have a group that is far more powerful and dangerous than they ever would have been in my youth.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:32 pm

Virtual737 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:

I think its always been going on. The main difference is now everyone has a camera in their pocket so we see more day to day life around the world and mistake it for something unusual.


Even if accurate, that is exactly what makes it different, and dangerous..

A million loonies wandering aimlessly alone in a nation of 300 million don't really get heard. Allow them a platform (the internet) to find each other, promoted by a charlatan such as Alex Jones who is in it for nothing more than the money and celebrity and you have a group that is far more powerful and dangerous than they ever would have been in my youth.


Promote critical thinking and empathy in the school system. Both skills seem to be getting less and less. Not only in the US.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 1:38 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:

I think its always been going on. The main difference is now everyone has a camera in their pocket so we see more day to day life around the world and mistake it for something unusual.


Even if accurate, that is exactly what makes it different, and dangerous..

A million loonies wandering aimlessly alone in a nation of 300 million don't really get heard. Allow them a platform (the internet) to find each other, promoted by a charlatan such as Alex Jones who is in it for nothing more than the money and celebrity and you have a group that is far more powerful and dangerous than they ever would have been in my youth.


Promote critical thinking and empathy in the school system. Both skills seem to be getting less and less. Not only in the US.


What would that have done to solve the entitled attitude of the woman in the OP video? Just curious. She believes she knows the law better than the hospital, and she believes she should be able to keep her job because THEY 'forced' her to choose between vaccine and no vaccine. She does not recognize the authority of the security manager to declare her a trespasser and toss them from the building.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:46 pm

Look up Lord Moulton and his speech on “Obedience to the Unenforceable”, great read and explains a lot about today’s “culture “. People now believe if it’s unenforceable it must legal, moral and proper. You see wackos who think they’re untouchable everywhere and, unfortunately, they’re too often right. Rich, poor, white, black, purple, old, young, they are all entitled according to them.
 
MohawkWeekend
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:15 pm

[twoid][/twoid]Sovereign Citizen videos on Youtube are just wild. Stalking United Parcel Service warehouses. And making Police Officers lives miserable. Yikes.

I have 2 friends who have literally gone off the deep end espousing far right wing politics. Someone has broken the code on how to use social media to drive normal people to levels of anger and hate I could not imagine.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:56 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Look up Lord Moulton and his speech on “Obedience to the Unenforceable”, great read and explains a lot about today’s “culture “. People now believe if it’s unenforceable it must legal, moral and proper. You see wackos who think they’re untouchable everywhere and, unfortunately, they’re too often right. Rich, poor, white, black, purple, old, young, they are all entitled according to them.


While that is indeed a great read, I’m not sure its the kind of hearty topic that will find its way into years of dedicated discussion between parents and their offspring.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:21 pm

And that’s what we need and won’t get— bracing discussions from parents on civic responsibility. Victorian virtues
 
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Dutchy
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:03 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
What would that have done to solve the entitled attitude of the woman in the OP video? Just curious. She believes she knows the law better than the hospital, and she believes she should be able to keep her job because THEY 'forced' her to choose between vaccine and no vaccine. She does not recognize the authority of the security manager to declare her a trespasser and toss them from the building.


She is what we call 'unconsciously incompetent', with critical thinking, she might have been more critical of her own abilities and thus gone-up to consciously incompetent - level and might have behaved more according to her level of knowledge and thus differently.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:06 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Victorian virtues


Victorian? uhmmm, no thanks.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:52 pm

Dutchy wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Victorian virtues


Victorian? uhmmm, no thanks.


Absolutely, no thrift, self-respect, prudence, hard work ethic, self-discipline for the Modern Man. Be profligate, drunk or stoned, lazy, spendthrift, disheveled, like we see everyday.
 
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T18
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:22 pm

MohawkWeekend wrote:
Someone has broken the code on how to use social media to drive normal people to levels of anger and hate I could not imagine.


No one broke it, that is the sites worked as intended. The KGB or Goebbels wish they could have spread outright lies and misinformation the way social media does.

These sites may talk about fighting the misinformation but the truth is they make far too much money off the clicks a lie makes vs the truth to really want to change anything. I doubt anything will get better until the EU or US Gov. legislate it and force them to be accountable for the harm they can cause by allowing lies to run side by side with truth.
 
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:21 pm

T18 wrote:
MohawkWeekend wrote:
Someone has broken the code on how to use social media to drive normal people to levels of anger and hate I could not imagine.


No one broke it, that is the sites worked as intended. The KGB or Goebbels wish they could have spread outright lies and misinformation the way social media does.

These sites may talk about fighting the misinformation but the truth is they make far too much money off the clicks a lie makes vs the truth to really want to change anything. I doubt anything will get better until the EU or US Gov. legislate it and force them to be accountable for the harm they can cause by allowing lies to run side by side with truth.


Couldn't agree more - but I do wonder who is behind all the hateful and deceitful things posted.
 
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:26 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Victorian virtues


Victorian? uhmmm, no thanks.


Absolutely, no thrift, self-respect, prudence, hard work ethic, self-discipline for the Modern Man. Be profligate, drunk or stoned, lazy, spendthrift, disheveled, like we see everyday.


Rose tinted much? I guess to a certain ring wing demographic Victorian morals of profiting of other peoples hard work and misery whilst not allowing women control over their own bodies or lives whilst almost no thrift whatsoever! I mean you do know that the victorians who built the railways in the UK made absolutely 0 money from it right? I guess the Victorian model of using your own resources with thrift but using others doesn’t count.

Sounds to me like the problem with modern society is those who promote those values that you suggested only want it for others. A right wing wet dream…

The thing that Victorian society didn’t have was freedom for all, I guess freedom isn’t that important as long as folks do as the man tells them (a white, overweight, slightly perverted, heterosexual, angry, middle aged man preferably but boy does he have good teeth and a catchy tag line!)

Fred


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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seb146
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:32 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Absolutely, no thrift, self-respect, prudence, hard work ethic, self-discipline for the Modern Man. Be profligate, drunk or stoned, lazy, spendthrift, disheveled, like we see everyday.


It could be said people do these things right now, every day. Working hard, spending on little to nothing selfish, but see very little in return. The only ones who really move forward are those with means.

Yes, I know..... "but the welfare queens!" I know... that one person seen that one time getting out of a Cadillac at the welfare office to get their cash welfare. Or whatever the story was that no one can ever back up....
 
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:44 pm

seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Absolutely, no thrift, self-respect, prudence, hard work ethic, self-discipline for the Modern Man. Be profligate, drunk or stoned, lazy, spendthrift, disheveled, like we see everyday.


It could be said people do these things right now, every day. Working hard, spending on little to nothing selfish, but see very little in return. The only ones who really move forward are those with means.

Yes, I know..... "but the welfare queens!" I know... that one person seen that one time getting out of a Cadillac at the welfare office to get their cash welfare. Or whatever the story was that no one can ever back up....


Slothy trust fund kids and white collar crooks are a real thing, but that doesn't mean welfare cheats aren't a real thing as well. When I lived in Hawaii, it was a regular occurrence at the supermarket to see people buying a full spread of meat for a weekend BBQ on their EBT cards - a spread few people in line could afford.
 
PhilBy
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:39 pm

I stand by the good old adage - Almost half the global population are below average intelligence.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:23 pm

Aaron747 wrote:

Slothy trust fund kids and white collar crooks are a real thing, but that doesn't mean welfare cheats aren't a real thing as well. When I lived in Hawaii, it was a regular occurrence at the supermarket to see people buying a full spread of meat for a weekend BBQ on their EBT cards - a spread few people in line could afford.



I never understood why that bothers anyone. EBT is a set amount each month. Use it all up straight away, and you are boned. Just like with money.

EBT exists as much to subsidize agriculture as it does for people. Personally, I would like to see that usage expanded for things like alcohol and entertainment venues as those are incredibly important employers as well.

In any case, worrying about Welfare Cheats betrays a certain level of financial illiteracy that, frankly, I am surprised anyone educated still has the patience to hear out at this point...
 
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:44 pm

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

Slothy trust fund kids and white collar crooks are a real thing, but that doesn't mean welfare cheats aren't a real thing as well. When I lived in Hawaii, it was a regular occurrence at the supermarket to see people buying a full spread of meat for a weekend BBQ on their EBT cards - a spread few people in line could afford.



I never understood why that bothers anyone. EBT is a set amount each month. Use it all up straight away, and you are boned. Just like with money.

EBT exists as much to subsidize agriculture as it does for people. Personally, I would like to see that usage expanded for things like alcohol and entertainment venues as those are incredibly important employers as well.

In any case, worrying about Welfare Cheats betrays a certain level of financial illiteracy that, frankly, I am surprised anyone educated still has the patience to hear out at this point...


It bothers people who make too much to qualify for EBT and not enough to afford the same purchase. Pretty simple. Was a common topic at the office at the time.
 
FGITD
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:13 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
….In any case, worrying about Welfare Cheats betrays a certain level of financial illiteracy that, frankly, I am surprised anyone educated still has the patience to hear out at this point...


It serves its purpose of pushing the crab bucket mentality.

The millionaire/billionaire who finds every loophole to pay as little tax and give back as little as possible points to the impoverished person taking more than they “deserve” and says “look! They’re cheating the system with your hard earned money!”

Look no further than wal-mart. Owned by one of the wealthiest families in the US, and yet also employs one of the highest number of govt aid beneficiaries. Maybe we the people should ask why taxpayers are subsidizing their full time employees, while their profits boom?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:28 am

FGITD wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
….In any case, worrying about Welfare Cheats betrays a certain level of financial illiteracy that, frankly, I am surprised anyone educated still has the patience to hear out at this point...


It serves its purpose of pushing the crab bucket mentality.

The millionaire/billionaire who finds every loophole to pay as little tax and give back as little as possible points to the impoverished person taking more than they “deserve” and says “look! They’re cheating the system with your hard earned money!”

Look no further than wal-mart. Owned by one of the wealthiest families in the US, and yet also employs one of the highest number of govt aid beneficiaries. Maybe we the people should ask why taxpayers are subsidizing their full time employees, while their profits boom?


Actually the billionaire doesn’t even have to say that themselves - lobbyists and the members of Congress beholden to them do it for them.

They key difference between the 0.1% and everyone else, even the 1%: any work the former does is entirely voluntary.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:55 am

Aaron747 wrote:

It bothers people who make too much to qualify for EBT and not enough to afford the same purchase. Pretty simple. Was a common topic at the office at the time.


I guess? Even if you are in that un-goldilox zone, however, you are very likely better off than an EBT recipient in almost every other aspect.

It translates poorly, but the best thing I have ever heard for things like this goes something like "It is ok to be envious of someone as long as you are envious of everything they have..." E.g., if you envy someone's wealth, you must envy their cancer too.

I would still rather not be the person on EBT.


FGITD wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
….In any case, worrying about Welfare Cheats betrays a certain level of financial illiteracy that, frankly, I am surprised anyone educated still has the patience to hear out at this point...


It serves its purpose of pushing the crab bucket mentality.

The millionaire/billionaire who finds every loophole to pay as little tax and give back as little as possible points to the impoverished person taking more than they “deserve” and says “look! They’re cheating the system with your hard earned money!”

Look no further than wal-mart. Owned by one of the wealthiest families in the US, and yet also employs one of the highest number of govt aid beneficiaries. Maybe we the people should ask why taxpayers are subsidizing their full time employees, while their profits boom?


Indeed. If people suddenly knew what they were talking about in these matters, a lot of things would change in ways not comfortable for a lot of the wrong people.

The worst part part of WalMart's case is how incestuous that relationship is. Not only do they cheat on labor costs, but most of that public assistance money comes back to them again as they are the primary beneficiary of their employee's welfare expenditures. Bet that makes your skin crawl, huh?


Aaron747 wrote:

Actually the billionaire doesn’t even have to say that themselves - lobbyists and the members of Congress beholden to them do it for them.

They key difference between the 0.1% and everyone else, even the 1%: any work the former does is entirely voluntary.


This is true, yes.
 
FGITD
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:11 am

DarkSnowyNight wrote:
The worst part part of WalMart's case is how incestuous that relationship is. Not only do they cheat on labor costs, but most of that public assistance money comes back to them again as they are the primary beneficiary of their employee's welfare expenditures. Bet that makes your skin crawl, huh?


This is the worst part of it all. Imagine. You work at a discount retailer, and make so little money that you have to get govt assistance, that you then use to shop at your own workplace. As you pointed out, it’s just an incestuous abuse of the system.

It’s absolutely horrific.

But of course, it’s that person buying “expensive” items on EBT that’s causing societal issues
 
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Aaron747
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:02 am

FGITD wrote:
DarkSnowyNight wrote:
The worst part part of WalMart's case is how incestuous that relationship is. Not only do they cheat on labor costs, but most of that public assistance money comes back to them again as they are the primary beneficiary of their employee's welfare expenditures. Bet that makes your skin crawl, huh?


This is the worst part of it all. Imagine. You work at a discount retailer, and make so little money that you have to get govt assistance, that you then use to shop at your own workplace. As you pointed out, it’s just an incestuous abuse of the system.

It’s absolutely horrific.

But of course, it’s that person buying “expensive” items on EBT that’s causing societal issues


And that’s after the fact of decimating small town family-run businesses for decades. It’s just a total merry go-round of despair.
 
LCDFlight
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:21 pm

The problem isn’t happening in the middle 50% of the political spectrum. Not even the middle 60%. The majority is being held hostage by brain damaged filth merchants on the extremes. People who don’t read books. People who think mob rule is acceptable and are willing to use weapons or firebombs against the majority.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:30 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
The problem isn’t happening in the middle 50% of the political spectrum. Not even the middle 60%. The majority is being held hostage by brain damaged filth merchants on the extremes. People who don’t read books. People who think mob rule is acceptable and are willing to use weapons or firebombs against the majority.


There's nothing to stop them though because the outrage grift is a proven business model now.
 
737307
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:24 pm

LabQuest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
LabQuest wrote:

Oh you sweet summer child.

I've seen Doctors, pilots, lawyers, etc act a fool. One Delta pilot I drove to the airport had an info wars sticker on his luggage.


So have I - but those are one-offs. Now you have multiple professionals in the same communities/states acting this way. This stuff is like a cancer that's growing. It's not like before where we wouldn't know about it - it's on TV often enough that if it keeps up, it just becomes a new normal.


I think its always been going on. The main difference is now everyone has a camera in their pocket so we see more day to day life around the world and mistake it for something unusual.


The main difference is not having a camera in your pocket, but by being a jerk harassing people and taping them.
 
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seb146
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:26 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Absolutely, no thrift, self-respect, prudence, hard work ethic, self-discipline for the Modern Man. Be profligate, drunk or stoned, lazy, spendthrift, disheveled, like we see everyday.


It could be said people do these things right now, every day. Working hard, spending on little to nothing selfish, but see very little in return. The only ones who really move forward are those with means.

Yes, I know..... "but the welfare queens!" I know... that one person seen that one time getting out of a Cadillac at the welfare office to get their cash welfare. Or whatever the story was that no one can ever back up....


Slothy trust fund kids and white collar crooks are a real thing, but that doesn't mean welfare cheats aren't a real thing as well. When I lived in Hawaii, it was a regular occurrence at the supermarket to see people buying a full spread of meat for a weekend BBQ on their EBT cards - a spread few people in line could afford.


Absolutely. But, what I am saying, is that people who want to completely do away with welfare because there are cheats are hurting a much larger majority who do not cheat. You bring up trust fund kids and white collar cheats. Let's enforce laws to hold them accountable. But, according to the right, that would not be fair.

It seems every time we talk about welfare, we hear the same tired story from years ago about that woman in her Cadillac collecting welfare or that woman in her Hummer collecting welfare or that illegal collecting welfare. There are welfare cheats, just like there are tax cheats. Why punish the many for the crimes of the few?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:18 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
LabQuest wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:

So have I - but those are one-offs. Now you have multiple professionals in the same communities/states acting this way. This stuff is like a cancer that's growing. It's not like before where we wouldn't know about it - it's on TV often enough that if it keeps up, it just becomes a new normal.


I think its always been going on. The main difference is now everyone has a camera in their pocket so we see more day to day life around the world and mistake it for something unusual.


The main difference is not having a camera in your pocket, but by being a jerk harassing people and taping them.


That was kind of my earlier point - these are not adults, they are babies. A large number of people acting that way cannot be taken seriously as a culture or society.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Tue Oct 05, 2021 1:26 am

Aaron747 wrote:
That was kind of my earlier point - these are not adults, they are babies. A large number of people acting that way cannot be taken seriously as a culture or society.


Yes. As with most people, my frustration is that we cannot just somehow deport those people to Antarctica where they belong. At a certain point we will have to take stock of just how useful it is to continue to suffer these fools.

People who are obsessed with imaginary rights —and similarly obsessed with ignoring social obligations— represent a very real hazard where public safety is concerned. We have no problem taking away all sorts of other rights and privileges with due process when similar recklessness is encountered.

I am done with feeling sorry for people who lose jobs because they refuse to get with program and stop hurting other people. Not that I ever really did, mind.

seb146 wrote:
There are welfare cheats, just like there are tax cheats. Why punish the many for the crimes of the few?


They do not want that. They only want poor people angry at poor people.

Cancelling welfare would be a devastating kick in the pants... to the business that depend on not paying adequate wages, businesses that sell agricultural products, etc. Any serious attempt to restructure or eliminate EBT and the like would be met with a veritable cannonade of lobbying firepower we seldom see even now. WalMart, Conagra, et al, would never allow anything like that to happen.

But... keeping the stupids mad at imaginary welfare cheats will ensure that just enough of the simples come out to vote to keep certain districts red.

The sad thing is how willfully the MAGAs buy into this. They know they are being lied to, and that they are being sold a bill of goods. But as long as such stories appeal to their base racism, they are happy to be fools.
 
stratosphere
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:27 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Absolutely, no thrift, self-respect, prudence, hard work ethic, self-discipline for the Modern Man. Be profligate, drunk or stoned, lazy, spendthrift, disheveled, like we see everyday.


It could be said people do these things right now, every day. Working hard, spending on little to nothing selfish, but see very little in return. The only ones who really move forward are those with means.

Yes, I know..... "but the welfare queens!" I know... that one person seen that one time getting out of a Cadillac at the welfare office to get their cash welfare. Or whatever the story was that no one can ever back up....


Slothy trust fund kids and white collar crooks are a real thing, but that doesn't mean welfare cheats aren't a real thing as well. When I lived in Hawaii, it was a regular occurrence at the supermarket to see people buying a full spread of meat for a weekend BBQ on their EBT cards - a spread few people in line could afford.


EBT is the most abused government program out there and Biden just doubled down on it. In addition to what you just said a lot of drug abusers sell their EBT for 50 cents on the dollar to get cash so they can get their drugs and or booze. If they are going to offer these programs they really need to tighten up the system to cut down on the fraud hell even the convenience store owners that accept EBT have been known to be in on the scam.
 
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seb146
Posts: 24076
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Re: America - Not A 'Serious' Nation, Part Deux

Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:11 am

stratosphere wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

It could be said people do these things right now, every day. Working hard, spending on little to nothing selfish, but see very little in return. The only ones who really move forward are those with means.

Yes, I know..... "but the welfare queens!" I know... that one person seen that one time getting out of a Cadillac at the welfare office to get their cash welfare. Or whatever the story was that no one can ever back up....


Slothy trust fund kids and white collar crooks are a real thing, but that doesn't mean welfare cheats aren't a real thing as well. When I lived in Hawaii, it was a regular occurrence at the supermarket to see people buying a full spread of meat for a weekend BBQ on their EBT cards - a spread few people in line could afford.


EBT is the most abused government program out there and Biden just doubled down on it. In addition to what you just said a lot of drug abusers sell their EBT for 50 cents on the dollar to get cash so they can get their drugs and or booze. If they are going to offer these programs they really need to tighten up the system to cut down on the fraud hell even the convenience store owners that accept EBT have been known to be in on the scam.


What is really criminal is that these people will go for a bag of chips or a bag of ramen just so their EBT can last longer instead of being given fruits and vegetables and proteins. I am sort of glad Republicans have started moving away from the "America is a Christian nation" schtick but in my copy of the Good Book, the hungry were fed.

When you see drug abusers and booze hounds selling their EBT cards for pennies on the dollar, call welfare.

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