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Aesma
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French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:57 pm

To vary a bit from US politics, we can talk about French politics !

For almost 5 years now, since the 2017 election of Emmanuel Macron, the 2022 one seemed set for a rematch, with Marine Le Pen getting to the second round again.

Polls are now showing for the first time an alternative duel, with yet another surprise candidate (Macron was the one last time) : Eric Zemmour, a far right political commentator.

Not all candidates are declared, some parties are still running primaries or even wondering how they will nominate a candidate. Some declared candidates might not make it to the election, as you need signatures from 500 "great electors" (mayors, typically) across France to get a valid candidacy, so fringe candidates have trouble meeting that bar.

Polls are conducted with between 14 and 17 potential candidates, and the mainstream right wing party (Les Républicains) has 3 potential candidates so pollsters are doing the polls 3 times with either of them.

You can see here that the Harris-Interactive poll from 1-4 Oct 2021 (in green : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_p ... l_election) gives Emmanuel Macron first with 24-27%, and Eric Zemmour second with 17-18%.

In the runoff, Macron would win 55% vs 45% for Zemmour according to the same poll.

Eric Zemmour is a very controversial figure, who has been convicted for racist incitment, and everyone (including him) is very surprised at his rise in the polls, considering he's not even a candidate yet. He has some similarities with Trump and says so himself, they're nothing alike though, he's very smart, articulate, he writes in newspapers and books, and he has strong convictions, he doesn't go with the wind. He sticks to some of his pet issues that are ridiculous or that no one cares about but him, like his defense of Pétain, or his idea of banning foreign first names for kids born in France.

Here is a decent article about him, a few days old, when he was polling lower : From TV to the French Presidency? A Right-Wing Star Is Inspired by Trump

I'm a Macron supporter, although I agree our immigration rules need fixing, in particular regarding the Maghreb countries. It's just not my number one priority.
 
ltbewr
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Sat Oct 09, 2021 9:07 am

We have seen over the last 5-10 years a shift to more 'conservative'. right wing, authoritarian political and governmental policy around the world. Like many other countries, France has been seeing that movement. For the USA, UK, EU countries, a lot has to center, depending on the individual country or region, on several critical issues that many believe politicians are not dealing with. immigration from poorer countries to them, especially from the Islamic world. Reducing access to legal abortions. Increased fear and desire to limit 'diversity' of minority ethnic, racial or religious groups as to jobs, education practices and what is taught. Objections to high taxes on the working and middle class. Lack of affordable housing. High crime, in particular violent crime. Corruption of those in politics and government. Too many decent paying industrial jobs shipped off to Asia. Not wanting higher motor vehicle or heating fuels or have tighter regulations to deal with climate change.

The 'Right' seems to offer simple and popular answers to deal with the above listed issues and others. Those on the right figured out how to use social and other web based media better than the 'left' or centrists to get their views out with little or no checks that used to be done by traditional media (newspapers in particular). Likely and hopefully the right wing candidates won't win, but those in the left or center will as has happened in the USA have to shift to a center-right position if they have any hope to be elected or re-elected.
 
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Aesma
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:30 am

1st round results of 2017 for reference :

Image

Macron is centrist, Le Pen far right, Fillon traditional right/conservative, Mélenchon far left, Hamon social democrat, Dupont-Aignan far right, Lassalle is drunk right, Poutou is far far left, Asselineau is far right (for Frexit), Arthaud is far far left, Cheminade wants to colonize Mars.
 
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saleya22r
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:13 am

his defense of Pétain

A bit strange for a man with a Jewish background don't you think?

1st round results of 2017 for reference

In October 2016, Juppé and Le Pen got 28% (intention to vote) in one poll followed by Macron with 14%, Mélenchon 13%. So it's a bit early to draw any conclusions yet. Now the popular ex PM Eduard Philippe has established a new party named Horizons, but he seems to support Macron in 2022, waiting for 2027..Not good news for LR I suppose! Zemmour will obviously divide the RN (Le Pen) and other extreme right voters if becoming a candidate.
 
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Aesma
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:34 am

Yeah a lot can happen. There is talk of Le Pen giving up in favor of Zemmour. If she was sincere in her beliefs she would do it, but since her party is her job, her business, I doubt it.

Then there is Hidalgo, she's so bad and polling so low, I can't believe she'll make it. I see the socialists getting behind the green Jadot.

Jadot is banging on about stopping nuclear and putting up wind turbines just when there is so little wind that old coal plants have to be turned on. Also his main argument that nuclear is very dangerous clashes with the idea of taking 20 years to stop using it...
 
737307
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:23 pm

I thought Barnier would run too?
 
Olddog
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:27 pm

Barnier needs to win his party primary to go further.
 
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Oct 11, 2021 4:37 pm

Please provide a link to your source when stating facts, if not posts will be deleted.
 
 
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Aesma
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:04 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
I thought Barnier would run too?


He doesn't have much name recognition and isn't exactly charismatic so I'm not sure what he's hoping to achieve, I guess he goes by "you have to be in it to win it".

The "Les Républicains" party, LR for short, has had a vote of party members, who decided against a primary : https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2021 ... ntial-poll

You have all the details in the link, but basically there will be an internal party vote for members only, Michel Barnier will run against Eric Ciotti, Philippe Juvin and Valérie Pécresse (who left the party but will still be admitted). The hope was that Xavier Bertrand, who also left the party, would accept this format, but it turns out he was only OK with it if he was the only candidate...

OK just as I was looking for a link about that, Xavier Bertrand has actually announced that he would participate in the internal LR vote ! https://goodwordnews.com/xavier-bertran ... -congress/

So on the 4th of December (still far away) we will know who it is. It's almost impossible to poll internal party members so I won't speculate too much about the result.
 
737307
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:47 pm

It's getting confusing. So, Macron is not from "LR"? He has his own party?
 
Olddog
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Wed Oct 13, 2021 5:03 am

Yes and yes.
 
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Aesma
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:07 am

Emmanuel Macron created a "movement" called "En Marche" at first (yes, his initials), in 2016, while still economy minister under president Hollande. After he won the presidential election it was renamed "La République En Marche !" as a party (frequently abbreviated LREM, LaREM, REM or LRM; translatable as The Republic On The Move, Republic Forward, or The Working Republic. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_R%C3%A ... _En_Marche!)

Image

It's a centrist, liberal party. Liberal not as "left wing" but as liberal economically and socially. He liberalized the economy, and also made some progressive changes to laws regarding abortion or homoparentality, for example.

It's still mainly Macron's party, it might not survive beyond his presidency.

Eric Zemmour is rumoured to be following the same pattern and is in the process of creating his own party to run in the presidential election.
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:26 am

Aesma wrote:
Liberal not as "left wing" but as liberal economically and socially. He liberalized the economy, and also made some progressive changes to laws regarding abortion or homoparentality, for example.


It's economically "liberal" in a very specific French understanding of that word. Nominally left or right, French politicans always push for more regulation, more taxes, competition is a dirty word, etc. etc. Even Renew Europe is having major problems with incompatibility of French and ALDE views on what it means to be economically liberal. French nomination of an ex-socialist for the leadership of Renew is a nice illustration of the above.
 
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Aesma
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Sun Nov 07, 2021 9:27 pm

Yes liberal is a dirty word in France, however if you look at Macron's policies (excluding COVID related ones) he went towards liberalization and less taxes. For example he revamped the wealth tax so it only applies to real estate and not shares or cash, and lowered capital gains taxes from as high as 60,5% to a flat 30%. He also lowered various taxes on businesses, the payroll tax paid by employees for the unemployment insurance, and abolished one of the two property taxes we pay.

Right wing parties claim he didn't do enough even though they were unable to do as much in 10 years of power 2002-2012, and the left wants to undo everything, of course.

Here is the latest poll, representative of several I've seen (from several pollsters), putting Eric Zemmour at the same level or ahead of Marine Le Pen :

Image

It seems Michel Barnier is making some inroads, as the only "loyal" candidate to his party. I guess for LR he wouldn't be too bad a candidate, as at least he's different from Emmanuel Macron, a lot older and calmer.

At the top is the first round and at the bottom the second round, testing some candidates against Macron even if they aren't in reach of the second round.
 
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Aesma
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:54 pm

Today the results of the first round of Les Républicains closed primary were announced. The first 4 candidates have between 22% and 25.5% so it's very close, with the 5th having the remainder couple %.

In a quite sensational result, although expected by some considering his good performances during the TV debates, Eric Ciotti came first, with Valérie Pécresse second. Michel Barnier, 3rd, and Xavier Bertrand, 4th, are out.

As you can see from the previous post, Ciotti would seem to be a poor choice for the actual election !

The 3 losing candidates have immediately announced their support for Valérie Pécresse, barring any more surprises she should win the designation of the LR party by Sunday.

Image
 
Olddog
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:15 pm

As history proves time and time, members of a party are a bad gauge to chose a candidate that needs to reach the whole population. Christmas gift for Macron.
 
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Aesma
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:52 pm

Pécresse is basically Macron in woman form politically, so her campaign will be quite complicated.
 
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Tugger
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:51 pm

How does all the current "events" in Europe affect the election and Macron in particular?

(And no, I don't want to make this a thread about something else, there are already threads for that. Just curious how such things affect the french election. What do the candidate need to show or avoid regarding it.)

Tugg
 
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Aesma
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Fri Feb 25, 2022 11:19 pm

Macron postponed entering the campaign saying he wants the Ukraine situation stabilized first. Now with the invasion, that's unlikely to happen, and he has one week left to declare his candidacy. In the poll above he's rising slightly so at least what he's doing isn't hurting him. Consequently we still don't have his platform, aside from a few things he announced that he can't technically do before the election (no more time to pass new laws). The main one surely is a plan to build 6 new nuclear reactors, then 8 more.

Zemmour and Le Pen are Putin admirers, seeking his support. Le Pen met him before the last election, a russian bank was bankrolling her campaign, now she found a hungarian bank for this one. Zemmour said many nice things about Putin when he was a political commentator, wishing France to have such a leader. They're backpedaling and condemning the invasion, while still bashing NATO and the US.

Political commentators think this could hurt both of them but I'm not so sure, the people I know who vote that way are also admirers of Putin, so... It will clearly help Macron in the second round debate, though, pointing out that people presenting themselves are "sovereignists" admire a man who doesn't care about the sovereignty of other countries.

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2022 ... ntial-race
 
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eastafspot
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Fri Apr 08, 2022 6:44 am

Last day of the campaign.
Zemmour is no more.
Macron in trouble due to the retirement age or the Mackinsey affair ?
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Sun Apr 10, 2022 5:14 pm

At 5 pm local time, participation is estimated to be around 65% of the voting population.

Apparently, both Le Pen and Macron are at 24%, based on polls of people having voted.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:12 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
At 5 pm local time, participation is estimated to be around 65% of the voting population.

Apparently, both Le Pen and Macron are at 24%, based on polls of people having voted.


Macron at 28% and Le Pen at 23 will go to the next round, like in 2017!
No one between 10% and 20%.
 
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IceCream
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Sun Apr 10, 2022 10:40 pm

Is there any chance Le Pen will win the election (in your guys' opinion)? It looks like it'll be hard for her.
 
Bricktop
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Sun Apr 10, 2022 11:38 pm

IceCream wrote:
Is there any chance Le Pen will win the election (in your guys' opinion)? It looks like it'll be hard for her.

Take Macron and give the points.
 
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:47 am

eastafspot wrote:
Macron at 28% and Le Pen at 23 will go to the next round, like in 2017!
No one between 10% and 20%.


But Melenchon came third with 22% just behind Le Pen.

Just now Melenchon has called on his voters to vote for Macron in the second round to keep Le Pen out. The same as 2017 when all the non Le Pen voters aligned behind Macron. In 2017 it was Macron 24 to Le Pen 21 in the first round. In the second round it was Macron 66-34.
 
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Aesma
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:52 am

I wanted to wait for the final results tomorrow morning as the numbers keep evolving, with Mélenchon catching up to Le Pen. But he should stay behind, just close enough to rant about it for the next 5 years.

I heard about the 24%/24% prediction for Macron/Le Pen and had a bit of a worry as it was my fear, with Le Pen having a good dynamic and Macron a bad one, but it seems he benefited from a "useful vote", as well as Le Pen, with the result being a good 4-5 points lead for Macron.

Mélenchon didn't call for a Macron vote, but asked not to vote for Le Pen, it's not the same thing. He said likewise in 2017. In practice some of his voters will vote for Le Pen anyway, and a good chunk will not vote at all.
 
ltbewr
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:36 am

Macron, as in his previous contest, will be the 'lesser of 2 evils' in the runoff vote vs. LePen. France, like many countries (including the USA), has seen a polarization of voters over a number of issues. What may be key is which candidate will be more effective to motivate voter turnout for them.
 
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Aesma
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Apr 11, 2022 12:59 pm

First round final results :

Image

It was quite close between Le Pen and Mélenchon in the end, 400 000 votes separates them, but since the gap was wider earlier in the evening, it's as if nobody noticed, and Le Pen is treated as if she made it comfortably.

Now both Macron and Le Pen have to cater to Mélenchon's voters, which isn't an easy task !

For US members, look at his program if you want to really see what "far left" is, and realize Biden is as far away from that as anyone : https://melenchon2022.fr/programme/version-courte/ (use google translate, it works OK).
 
ReverseFlow
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:09 pm

I did read somewhere that Mélenchon has told his supporters to vote Macron.

As a French colleague once told me - a lot of the time you don't vote (in the second round) for who you want but for the lesser of 2 evils.
 
Jalap
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:35 pm

It is remarkable that an open admiration for Putin doesn't seem to affect electoral success.
It's like this all over Europe :(

Image
 
SpaceshipDC10
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:38 pm

ReverseFlow wrote:
I did read somewhere that Mélenchon has told his supporters to vote Macron.


All I've heard so far, in his own words, not a single for Ms. Le Pen. That doesn't mean he supports Macron, unless he has changed his mind.

For Pecresse and her party, it's truly the Berezina.
 
ReverseFlow
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Apr 11, 2022 1:49 pm

SpaceshipDC10 wrote:
ReverseFlow wrote:
I did read somewhere that Mélenchon has told his supporters to vote Macron.


All I've heard so far, in his own words, not a single for Ms. Le Pen. That doesn't mean he supports Macron, unless he has changed his mind.

For Pecresse and her party, it's truly the Berezina.
Sorry yes, my mistake. He said not a single vote for LePen. I sort of deducted that it would be a vote fir Macron.
 
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eastafspot
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Apr 11, 2022 2:53 pm

Aesma wrote:
First round final results :

Image

It was quite close between Le Pen and Mélenchon in the end, 400 000 votes separates them, but since the gap was wider earlier in the evening, it's as if nobody noticed, and Le Pen is treated as if she made it comfortably.

Now both Macron and Le Pen have to cater to Mélenchon's voters, which isn't an easy task !

For US members, look at his program if you want to really see what "far left" is, and realize Biden is as far away from that as anyone : https://melenchon2022.fr/programme/version-courte/ (use google translate, it works OK).


Too bad JLM will not go to the final round due to those who did not vote or the hardcore fan base voters of Poutou/Lasalle...

What is funny on Twitter is those who insult the 28% who voted for Macron, saying they are retarded/drugged with covid-19 3rd or 4th boosters/live in caves... Etc etc.

No one sane should expect Mrs Le Pen to govern the country better than now.
 
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Aesma
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:21 pm

All the left candidates combined (left of Macron) take less than 32% of the vote so there was no way for Mélenchon to win. If the other left-wing candidates dropped out, then Zemmour and NDA could drop out too, and Le Pen would be on more than that.

Furthermore these left-wing candidates are fundamentally incompatible with JLM, so the voters they got wouldn't have voted for him. He's a Putin lover, also a big fan of Maduro, Fidel Castro... All because of an irrational anti-US stance.

Jalap wrote:
It is remarkable that an open admiration for Putin doesn't seem to affect electoral success.
It's like this all over Europe :(

Image


She stills owes 8 million euros to the Russian bank which lent her money for her 2017 campaign.

She said a couple days ago that Putin (not Russia, Putin) can be an ally after the war is over...
 
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:12 pm

Aesma wrote:
She said a couple days ago that Putin (not Russia, Putin) can be an ally after the war is over...


She is firmly in Putin's bag. Once you take money from an autocrat, you will be his into eternity. Good to keep reminding people about that.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Mon Apr 11, 2022 6:23 pm

Jalap wrote:
It is remarkable that an open admiration for Putin doesn't seem to affect electoral success.
It's like this all over Europe :(


Well, I guess that some people feel that a strong man is better for their country. Just like the US elections 2016, two yours after Russia took Crimea and some pieces of eastern Ukraine. ;)
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Tue Apr 12, 2022 4:24 am

Aesma wrote:
For US members, look at his program if you want to really see what "far left" is, and realize Biden is as far away from that as anyone : https://melenchon2022.fr/programme/version-courte/ (use google translate, it works OK).


I always consider myself to be a conservative but reading through JLM's manifesto I can safely say that I'd vote for him.
 
SEAorPWM
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Tue Apr 12, 2022 4:34 am

Dutchy wrote:
Jalap wrote:
It is remarkable that an open admiration for Putin doesn't seem to affect electoral success.
It's like this all over Europe :(


Well, I guess that some people feel that a strong man is better for their country. Just like the US elections 2016, two yours after Russia took Crimea and some pieces of eastern Ukraine. ;)


...and it continues in certain factions of the US Congress... :cry2:

It's very disturbing all around.
 
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Tue Apr 12, 2022 8:52 am

https://www.newstatesman.com/internatio ... al-victory

In 2017, 52% left wing voters said they will vote for Macron and just single digit percent point said they will vote Le Pen
But now, the figure apparently changed with just 36% said they will vote Macron, and 27% said they will vote Le Pen
 
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Aesma
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:49 am

Le Pen is or rather was until recently a proponent of the 60 years retirement age, a stereotypical left-wing policy, when Macron announced we had to go from the current 62 years to 65 years.

She's also promising to reduce gas taxes, increase salaries, etc.

So it's not too surprising. In fact her party has long been the party of the working class. Not sure they would fare any better under her, though, a bit like with Trump.
 
cpd
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Wed Apr 13, 2022 9:50 am

Aesma wrote:
Le Pen is or rather was until recently a proponent of the 60 years retirement age, a stereotypical left-wing policy, when Macron announced we had to go from the current 62 years to 65 years.

She's also promising to reduce gas taxes, increase salaries, etc.

So it's not too surprising. In fact her party has long been the party of the working class. Not sure they would fare any better under her, though, a bit like with Trump.



Sounds like snake oil sales person.

It’s all very well promising all these nice things, but it has to be budgeted for somehow. If you retire early, you still have to be financially secure for your next step of life.

My retirement age is 65. We put a certain portion of our income into a fund for our retirement- superannuation. You can also contribute extra if you want to. That’s for after we retire. Sure you get a pension, but it’s not that much so you have to be largely self funded. The amount you need is actually quite a lot, a very serious chunk of money.

Looks like there is a similar scheme in France for pension but it’s more than what we get I guess (at the maximum amount).


These radical candidates I’m sorry to say are just pulling off a scam and unfortunately some people believe it because it is sold convincingly.
 
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Aesma
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:15 pm

In France the pension system is basically a tax that you can't not pay, that pays the pensions of current pensioners, no significant money is put aside/invested. So if the system collapses, we're all screwed.
 
ReverseFlow
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Wed Apr 13, 2022 12:29 pm

Aesma wrote:
In France the pension system is basically a tax that you can't not pay, that pays the pensions of current pensioners, no significant money is put aside/invested. So if the system collapses, we're all screwed.
That's the general way a public pension system works surely.
The current taxpayers are paying for the current pensioners pension.
And then hopefully the children will pay for the taxpayers pension when they are pensioners.
So the problem with a declining/ageing population is there aren't enough taxpayers to pay for the current pensioners.

Isn't the French caveat that to retire at 60 or 62 you have to have paid in for 42 years?
Probably more complicated than that but that is my general knowlegde of it.
 
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:02 pm

ReverseFlow wrote:
Aesma wrote:
In France the pension system is basically a tax that you can't not pay, that pays the pensions of current pensioners, no significant money is put aside/invested. So if the system collapses, we're all screwed.
That's the general way a public pension system works surely.
The current taxpayers are paying for the current pensioners pension.
And then hopefully the children will pay for the taxpayers pension when they are pensioners.
So the problem with a declining/ageing population is there aren't enough taxpayers to pay for the current pensioners.

Isn't the French caveat that to retire at 60 or 62 you have to have paid in for 42 years?
Probably more complicated than that but that is my general knowlegde of it.

Isn't there at least some places where each workers have their own individual pension accounts?
 
ReverseFlow
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Wed Apr 13, 2022 3:59 pm

c933103 wrote:
ReverseFlow wrote:
Aesma wrote:
In France the pension system is basically a tax that you can't not pay, that pays the pensions of current pensioners, no significant money is put aside/invested. So if the system collapses, we're all screwed.
That's the general way a public pension system works surely.
The current taxpayers are paying for the current pensioners pension.
And then hopefully the children will pay for the taxpayers pension when they are pensioners.
So the problem with a declining/ageing population is there aren't enough taxpayers to pay for the current pensioners.

Isn't the French caveat that to retire at 60 or 62 you have to have paid in for 42 years?
Probably more complicated than that but that is my general knowlegde of it.

Isn't there at least some places where each workers have their own individual pension accounts?
That too, but I was more refering to state pensions.
 
ReverseFlow
Posts: 324
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Wed Apr 13, 2022 7:34 pm

And it seems that LePen is now wanting to cuddle up with Vladimir again once this bother in the Ukraine is over...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... dApp_Other

""As soon as the Russian-Ukrainian war is over and has been settled by a peace treaty, I will call for the implementation of a strategic rapprochement between Nato and Russia,” she said at a press conference."

Perhaps she feels jilted because Vlad is best buddies with Xi now.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:20 am

I read that she also wants to stop all French-German defense projects. I didn’t get the justification…

Anyhow, I really hope she doesn’t win. Isn’t it obvious that we need a strong EU and a strong NATO?
 
ReverseFlow
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2022 4:40 pm

Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Thu Apr 14, 2022 8:32 am

N14AZ wrote:
I read that she also wants to stop all French-German defense projects. I didn’t get the justification…

Anyhow, I really hope she doesn’t win. Isn’t it obvious that we need a strong EU and a strong NATO?
Nationalism.
Les Boches = bad.
 
GDB
Posts: 15160
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Re: French presidential election : 1st round on Sunday, April 10th 2022

Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:07 am

N14AZ wrote:
I read that she also wants to stop all French-German defense projects. I didn’t get the justification…

Anyhow, I really hope she doesn’t win. Isn’t it obvious that we need a strong EU and a strong NATO?


Her party is essentially Vichy 2.0
Foundered by her mad father, an ex paratrooper embittered by the loss of French Indo China and Algeria, So also OAS 2.0 without the bank raids and attempts on the life of the President.
All the fault of the Jews in his and her mind, though she has toned that down.
Dreyfus Affair not gone away either then.

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