Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
phatfarmlines wrote:Is an "alternative perspective" another term for........theory?
Aaron747 wrote:As was warned when HB3979 was passed by the Texas legislature last May, things have come to their logical conclusion in a school district in Southlake, TX. As the new law requires schools to promote 'balance' on supposedly controversial topics, one administrator offered that their interpretation includes topics like the Holocaust.
“Just try to remember the concepts of [House Bill] 3979,” Gina Peddy, a Carroll administrator, said in the recording obtained by NBC News. “And make sure that if you have a book on the Holocaust, that you have one that has an opposing, that has other perspectives.”
A teacher responded: “How do you oppose the Holocaust?”
According to the article in DMN, even local GOP leaders said that was a bridge way too far.
State Sen. Kelly Hancock, R-North Richland Hills, wrote on Twitter that “Southlake just got it wrong.”
“School administrators should know the difference between factual historical events and fiction,” Hancock wrote. “No legislation is suggesting the action this administrator is promoting.”
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/educati ... c-reports/
Extremists and supremacists have argued for years that traditional history curriculum in the US puts too much blind faith in the historic account of the Holocaust and should include so-called alternative perspectives popular in the domain of extremism. Such views are 100% antisemitic and cannot be pandered to, ever. It's pretty stunning that anyone in a school administrator position would fail to recognize that 1. this is a topic with clear historical facts to be reported in any curriculum and 2. pandering to calls for balance on this topic is dangerous and opens communities to future antisemitism. Also 3. there is simply no rational 'alternate' history of the Holocaust.
(2)AAteachers who choose to discuss current events or
widely debated and currently controversial issues of public policy
or social affairs shall, to the best of their ability, strive to
explore such issues from diverse and contending perspectives
without giving deference to any one perspective;
Athe structure, function, and processes of
government institutions at the federal, state, and local levels;
and
(3)AAthe founding documents of the United States,
including the Declaration of Independence, the United States
Constitution, the Federalist Papers (including but not limited to
Essays 10 and 51), excerpts from Alexis de Tocqueville ’s Democracy
in America, the first Lincoln-Douglas debate, and the writings of
the Founding Fathers of the United States.
FGITD wrote:Surprisingly-On a fundamental level, I can somewhat understand it. But given that this is Texas, I’m sure they don’t have the same reasoning that I do.
WesternDC6B wrote:FGITD wrote:Surprisingly-On a fundamental level, I can somewhat understand it. But given that this is Texas, I’m sure they don’t have the same reasoning that I do.
So I may gain some perspective on your comment, where are you?
FGITD wrote:Surprisingly-On a fundamental level, I can somewhat understand it. But given that this is Texas, I’m sure they don’t have the same reasoning that I do.
The issue with teaching history is that it’s very easy to just say “they were bad, they did bad things, so we went over and beat them and we’re the good guys “
It’s important to realize how things got to that point. How every day people tolerated it and how it escalated.
johns624 wrote:What's funny is that the Nazis never denied the Holocaust. In fact, they kept very good records of it.
Kiwirob wrote:So this would also apply to religious education?
Airstud wrote:Kiwirob wrote:So this would also apply to religious education?
Religious education isn't publicly funded in the U.S.
Airstud wrote:Kiwirob wrote:So this would also apply to religious education?
Religious education isn't publicly funded in the U.S.
Kiwirob wrote:Airstud wrote:Kiwirob wrote:So this would also apply to religious education?
Religious education isn't publicly funded in the U.S.
I thought in a lot of US schools creationism and abstinence were the norm as opposed to evolution and sex ed?
Kiwirob wrote:Airstud wrote:Kiwirob wrote:So this would also apply to religious education?
Religious education isn't publicly funded in the U.S.
I thought in a lot of US schools creationism and abstinence were the norm as opposed to evolution and sex ed?
Dieuwer wrote:What is the problem with Texas these days. First they want to control woman's bodies and now they want to deny the Holocaust?
WesternDC6B wrote:Dieuwer wrote:What is the problem with Texas these days. First they want to control woman's bodies and now they want to deny the Holocaust?
Where does it say they want to deny the holocaust? It leaves the topic open for discussion.
WesternDC6B wrote:Dieuwer wrote:What is the problem with Texas these days. First they want to control woman's bodies and now they want to deny the Holocaust?
Where does it say they want to deny the holocaust? It leaves the topic open for discussion.
WesternDC6B wrote:Dieuwer wrote:What is the problem with Texas these days. First they want to control woman's bodies and now they want to deny the Holocaust?
Where does it say they want to deny the holocaust? It leaves the topic open for discussion.
petertenthije wrote:WesternDC6B wrote:Dieuwer wrote:What is the problem with Texas these days. First they want to control woman's bodies and now they want to deny the Holocaust?
Where does it say they want to deny the holocaust? It leaves the topic open for discussion.
That's a bit semantic?
They don't want to deny it, but they want to option to deny it?
c933103 wrote:petertenthije wrote:WesternDC6B wrote:
Where does it say they want to deny the holocaust? It leaves the topic open for discussion.
That's a bit semantic?
They don't want to deny it, but they want to option to deny it?
https://www.salon.com/2021/10/17/texas- ... w_partner/
The Texas law reportedly try to ban teaching the idea of teaching one way is superior to another, and try to ban teaching the idea of anyone being inherently racist, according to my understanding of this report?
frmrCapCadet wrote:CRT, obviously written into the constitution. Blacks counted as 60% of a person, and white people got to vote for their share of the US congress. Now Texas has grown enough to get another representative (just about all minority growth), and Texas is redistricting so angry old white men get to elect that representative. CRT in display.
Aesma wrote:The US being built by slaves over the bodies of native americans is also a fact, but there is a Texas law saying it isn't really the case, that's why now facts are open to interpretation.
LCDFlight wrote:I don't think "the Holocaust" should be taught as a unique thing in history.
phatfarmlines wrote:LCDFlight wrote:I don't think "the Holocaust" should be taught as a unique thing in history.
It would be difficult to discuss WW2 in U.S. high school history classes without mentioning the Holocaust.
phatfarmlines wrote:LCDFlight wrote:I don't think "the Holocaust" should be taught as a unique thing in history.
It would be difficult to discuss WW2 in U.S. high school history classes without mentioning the Holocaust.
Aesma wrote:phatfarmlines wrote:LCDFlight wrote:I don't think "the Holocaust" should be taught as a unique thing in history.
It would be difficult to discuss WW2 in U.S. high school history classes without mentioning the Holocaust.
Do you learn that it was completely ignored during the war ? Or that the US didn't want to offer asylum to Jews during the 30's ?
Aaron747 wrote:Aesma wrote:phatfarmlines wrote:
It would be difficult to discuss WW2 in U.S. high school history classes without mentioning the Holocaust.
Do you learn that it was completely ignored during the war ? Or that the US didn't want to offer asylum to Jews during the 30's ?
I recall the California curriculum of the mid-90s taught us that the full extent of genocide in Europe was not known until latter stages of the war but reports were available. We had a yearlong course titled ‘20th century world history’ and that teacher was quite knowledgeable - she even mentioned the controversy around Henry Ford, and the fact both the US and UK resisted accepting refugees. We also did very interesting two day units on the Warsaw ghetto, French and Dutch resistance, and the role of clergy in trying to help Jews escape.
casinterest wrote:Aaron747 wrote:Aesma wrote:
Do you learn that it was completely ignored during the war ? Or that the US didn't want to offer asylum to Jews during the 30's ?
I recall the California curriculum of the mid-90s taught us that the full extent of genocide in Europe was not known until latter stages of the war but reports were available. We had a yearlong course titled ‘20th century world history’ and that teacher was quite knowledgeable - she even mentioned the controversy around Henry Ford, and the fact both the US and UK resisted accepting refugees. We also did very interesting two day units on the Warsaw ghetto, French and Dutch resistance, and the role of clergy in trying to help Jews escape.
I was in US History the year that Schindler's list came out. All the kids in the grade below me went on field trip's to see it. It is a very potent and powerful movie. In college I made a trip to the Holocaust museum in DC. Another very eye opening experience. The one thing everyone does forget about the holocaust, and other genocides is how the people get to that point. They believe a lie and have fervent faith that someone else is responsible for stopping the bad person from doing bad things.
Aaron747 wrote:casinterest wrote:Aaron747 wrote:
I recall the California curriculum of the mid-90s taught us that the full extent of genocide in Europe was not known until latter stages of the war but reports were available. We had a yearlong course titled ‘20th century world history’ and that teacher was quite knowledgeable - she even mentioned the controversy around Henry Ford, and the fact both the US and UK resisted accepting refugees. We also did very interesting two day units on the Warsaw ghetto, French and Dutch resistance, and the role of clergy in trying to help Jews escape.
I was in US History the year that Schindler's list came out. All the kids in the grade below me went on field trip's to see it. It is a very potent and powerful movie. In college I made a trip to the Holocaust museum in DC. Another very eye opening experience. The one thing everyone does forget about the holocaust, and other genocides is how the people get to that point. They believe a lie and have fervent faith that someone else is responsible for stopping the bad person from doing bad things.
By my time 'Schindler's List' was already on VHS, and I think it took us a few days to finish it in class. Although good for kids who had not seen it, I felt seeing it broken into segments kind of reduced its impact and the worksheets that accompanied it were useless (true of HS worksheets in general).
GDB wrote:Aesma wrote:FGITD wrote:Surprisingly-On a fundamental level, I can somewhat understand it. But given that this is Texas, I’m sure they don’t have the same reasoning that I do.
The issue with teaching history is that it’s very easy to just say “they were bad, they did bad things, so we went over and beat them and we’re the good guys “
It’s important to realize how things got to that point. How every day people tolerated it and how it escalated.
Fascist politicians not wanting to discuss fascism, not really surprising.
Yes, it’s also a myth that Mussolini got the trains to run on time, not a myth that these corrupt racists cannot keep the lights on in Texas, if it is too hot, or cold.
Isn’t there an old song, like ‘the lawmakers are full of shite, deep in the heart of Texas!
sccutler wrote:First of all, the school administrator at the outset (the subject of the thread) was not actually suggesting that an "opposing view" of the holocaust be taught;
Aaron747 wrote:sccutler wrote:First of all, the school administrator at the outset (the subject of the thread) was not actually suggesting that an "opposing view" of the holocaust be taught;
I thought her quote spoke for itself. I think I can speak for a lot of Jews in saying there is no acceptable 'other' or 'opposing' view of this history. Well there is, but only sickos go there.