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The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:53 am

Recently, the controversy regarding Dave Chappelle's comic jabs at trans people has created a stir.

The Netflix CEO, Ted Sarandos sent an email to all the employees regarding the matter.

Link

Just an opinion, but a joke is a joke. It used to be Polish jokes, Puerto Rican Jokes, Hispanic jokes, black jokes are just humor. Who decides what humor and comedy are?
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:05 pm

All the SJWs criticizing have likely not seen Chappelle's show in full and have only absorbed selective quotes. The theme of Chappelle's show was complex and nuanced - that everyone out there has a story, and if you just listen, you might learn something. That theme is encased in a running commentary about people who criticize him without listening to the whole message or understanding what his satire is trying to get people to think about. The last half hour is devoted to a story about a trans friend of Dave's in SF who killed herself in part due to others' criticism.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:13 pm

I've never heard of this show. It'll be first on my list tonight! :D
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:13 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
All the SJWs criticizing have likely not seen Chappelle's show in full and have only absorbed selective quotes. The theme of Chappelle's show was complex and nuanced - that everyone out there has a story, and if you just listen, you might learn something. That theme is encased in a running commentary about people who criticize him without listening to the whole message or understanding what his satire is trying to get people to think about. The last half hour is devoted to a story about a trans friend of Dave's in SF who killed herself in part due to others' criticism.



:checkmark: :checkmark:
This is one of those chances, that when I agree with you, I will say it, and I totally agree with you here. I saw the show, and its exactly what you say.

BTW, this is art, people need to get over it and accept art is art, it may be offensive to others because its art. If you don't want to be offended, don't see it, that's all.
 
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seb146
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:51 pm

Why can't people have the reactions they have? I never thought Chapelle was that funny. And I am the bad guy. He has opinions on subjects but those who have opinions about him and his show are not allowed to or are bad for having them? I don't get it.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:08 pm

They're allowed to share their opinions and voice their displeasure regarding Dave. They're asking for him to be canceled, not just voicing their displeasure. However, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it needs to stop. There are certain things that Dave says that I can understand how people would be offended at first, but I agree with what others above said. He is more intelligent than most people give him credit for, and has a message to be heard that most people will fail to receive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKL8B09hiJA
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:17 pm

seb146 wrote:
Why can't people have the reactions they have? I never thought Chapelle was that funny. And I am the bad guy. He has opinions on subjects but those who have opinions about him and his show are not allowed to or are bad for having them? I don't get it.

Of course people can have the reactions they have. No one is trying to stop that. And it is of course impossible to stop "reactions" so not sure why you are thinking that is being sought.

In reality the opposite of what you are suggesting is happening.

The people with the reactions are trying to stop/end/remove what they are reacting too. They are doing, or attempting to cause, the "can't have" you are posting you are against.

I don't think I will watch the special, but I support Chappelle's right to make the social commentary he does. And of course people have the right to object to what is said. But to me it crosses a line when such commentary is attempted to be shut down, or forced to be removed (this isn't a law or threatening overthrow or violence or something similar).

Tugg
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:14 pm

My thoughts - when nobody is allowed to speak publicly except the most extreme 0.2% fringe, it leads to an illusion that "the majority of voices" support a particular viewpoint.

I think the viewpoint that there is no such thing as a male or female human being is a legitimate viewpoint. Just as some people believe humans are spiritually descended from an alien species who are comprised of pure consciousness. These are cool ideas, but they are not the ONLY legitimate viewpoints on reality. See the difference?
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:05 pm

When I decided to watch this, I did it thinking it will be pulled from Netflix. I still think it might, at the end the twitter mob will prevail and it will be pulled. If it doesn't, I will be surprised.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:46 am

AirWorthy99 wrote:
When I decided to watch this, I did it thinking it will be pulled from Netflix. I still think it might, at the end the twitter mob will prevail and it will be pulled. If it doesn't, I will be surprised.


What are your thoughts on his commentary about the contemporary black experience in America?
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:48 am

seb146 wrote:
Why can't people have the reactions they have? I never thought Chapelle was that funny. And I am the bad guy. He has opinions on subjects but those who have opinions about him and his show are not allowed to or are bad for having them? I don't get it.


Some people like acerbic wit, and other people don't. Dark humor appeals to me most, so Chappelle has always been hilarious to me. As for reactions, nobody said 'can't.' I just think people look ridiculous when they react without actually seeing the full context of what was said.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:09 pm

seb146 wrote:
Why can't people have the reactions they have? I never thought Chapelle was that funny. And I am the bad guy. He has opinions on subjects but those who have opinions about him and his show are not allowed to or are bad for having them? I don't get it.


It’s cancel culture, instead of watching and making your own opinions of it a few nutty peeps get upset and the rest of the sheep follow.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:48 pm

seb146 wrote:
Why can't people have the reactions they have? I never thought Chapelle was that funny. And I am the bad guy. He has opinions on subjects but those who have opinions about him and his show are not allowed to or are bad for having them? I don't get it.


People have to opt in to being exposed to his comedy. He isn't running up to trans people on the street and busting jokes at them unsolicited. As he said in a previous special "The only way you can hear my jokes is if you click on my face!" So if you don't want to hear someone who made a career off of poking fun at things poke fun at you, simply don't go out of your way to listen. Same way I do not like certain foods, I do not go to restaurants and complain that they don't make food that I like. I simply go to a restaurant that serves food I enjoy.

I guess overall, its really easy to take a shit on something, but difficult to actually create something, so I will tend to side with the person who has the balls to go onstage and say something controversial, rather than the safe person hiding behind twitter.

Edit: Ricky Gervais says it way better than me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3dxMGzt5mU
 
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seb146
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:18 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Why can't people have the reactions they have? I never thought Chapelle was that funny. And I am the bad guy. He has opinions on subjects but those who have opinions about him and his show are not allowed to or are bad for having them? I don't get it.


It’s cancel culture, instead of watching and making your own opinions of it a few nutty peeps get upset and the rest of the sheep follow.


But is it really consequence culture if people actually watched the entire show and were genuinely upset? If people were fans before but are now questioning that choice?
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:49 pm

seb146 wrote:
But is it really consequence culture if people actually watched the entire show and were genuinely upset? If people were fans before but are now questioning that choice?

It's fine to decide you don't like the guy or his comedy/commentary anymore. Great, stop watching him or supporting him. Tell your friends you thinks he's an ass. Post it online, wherever, say whatever you want. Be genuinely upset.

But when you turn to telling others they can't watch it, demanding that in fact or your will do something to harm them, financially or otherwise, that is where you cross a line. That is where you lose me.

Tugg
 
meecrob
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:07 pm

seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Why can't people have the reactions they have? I never thought Chapelle was that funny. And I am the bad guy. He has opinions on subjects but those who have opinions about him and his show are not allowed to or are bad for having them? I don't get it.


It’s cancel culture, instead of watching and making your own opinions of it a few nutty peeps get upset and the rest of the sheep follow.


But is it really consequence culture if people actually watched the entire show and were genuinely upset? If people were fans before but are now questioning that choice?


People have just as much a right to be upset as Dave Chappelle has a right to free speech. Nobody is saying you can't be upset. We are saying just because you are upset, does not mean that something should be censored. Its a pretty basic concept of the free world. If I had my way, there would be no fundamentalists, but I'm not a douchebag that forces my opinions on others. As I said before, everyone knows what Chappelles schtick is. If you don't like it, don't watch. Same way I don't watch reality TV. The world isn't a safe space. Grow a pair and deal with it.

Edit: I guess what is on my mind is why people think they are owed something because they are upset?
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:46 pm

Please refrain from posting blatantly racist comments.
 
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seb146
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:10 am

I guess all I am saying is: let people be offended. Let people quit their jobs or boycott streaming services if they want. I don't understand what the big deal is. I boycott Chick-Fil-A. People boycotted after seeing Janet Jackson's nipple for 3/10 of a second. People boycotted after Ellen came out. People get offended.

I have tried to watch Chapelle and can't. I don't find him entertaining. I do know he has made an effort to be an ally for LGBTQ people.

I guess what I ultimately don't understand is: why is it okay to be offended by only certain things that one group says should be offensive? We should be offended by VMA performances and nip slips and gay dating but not transphobic or homophobic comments even in context? Why can't we just let people be offended? What ever happened to "I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it"?
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:09 am

seb146 wrote:
What ever happened to "I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it"?


Nobody said other people don't have a right to say/feel anything else.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:53 am

Netflix has every right to cancel any of their shows. What happened to "but but bur private companies are not beholden to free speech laws"??
Nevertheless, I am 100% against this pathetic Cancel Culture where a loudmouth minority thinks they can bully the silent majority into compliance.

Tugger wrote:
But when you turn to telling others they can't watch it, demanding that in fact or your will do something to harm them, financially or otherwise, that is where you cross a line. That is where you lose me.
Tugg


Hear hear!
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:21 am

seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Why can't people have the reactions they have? I never thought Chapelle was that funny. And I am the bad guy. He has opinions on subjects but those who have opinions about him and his show are not allowed to or are bad for having them? I don't get it.


It’s cancel culture, instead of watching and making your own opinions of it a few nutty peeps get upset and the rest of the sheep follow.


But is it really consequence culture if people actually watched the entire show and were genuinely upset? If people were fans before but are now questioning that choice?


I’d question whether people who are upset were his fans to begin with or typically people jumping on the bandwagon, which is by definition cancel culture.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:11 am

All of these hyper-sensitive people out there, just LOOKING for a reason to be offended, or to complain about something, remind me of a panel cartoon I saw in, I think, Willamette Week several decades ago.

This huge, strikingly unattractive woman behind the counter of a book shop was sneering at a male customer. "We don't have a Humor Section; this is a feminist bookstore!"

I am in several of the classes on which much humor is based. My response to it is, "I am the same man I was before I heard the joke".
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:56 pm

seb146 wrote:
Why can't we just let people be offended? What ever happened to "I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it"?


In all fairness, this is all Chappelle is asking for. He never asked anyone to agree with him. He just got onstage and said "this is my opinion". I don't get why there is a question of if people are "allowed" to be offended. Of course they are, just the same way Chappelle has the right to say what amounts to free speech.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:07 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

It’s cancel culture, instead of watching and making your own opinions of it a few nutty peeps get upset and the rest of the sheep follow.


But is it really consequence culture if people actually watched the entire show and were genuinely upset? If people were fans before but are now questioning that choice?


I’d question whether people who are upset were his fans to begin with or typically people jumping on the bandwagon, which is by definition cancel culture.


In his comedy set, Chappelle has a 15-20 minute bit where he discusses that the backlash he receives is typically from people who did not actually see his show, but read about it through a review in the papers or online or on twitter, and they are just repeating someone else's talking points without forming their own opinion. I think you are spot on in asking if these people are fans or bandwagon jumpers!
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:22 pm

meecrob wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
seb146 wrote:

But is it really consequence culture if people actually watched the entire show and were genuinely upset? If people were fans before but are now questioning that choice?


I’d question whether people who are upset were his fans to begin with or typically people jumping on the bandwagon, which is by definition cancel culture.


In his comedy set, Chappelle has a 15-20 minute bit where he discusses that the backlash he receives is typically from people who did not actually see his show, but read about it through a review in the papers or online or on twitter, and they are just repeating someone else's talking points without forming their own opinion. I think you are spot on in asking if these people are fans or bandwagon jumpers!


Can we also put into perspective the number of people who are actually offended? It's like 10. Hardly consequence culture. But, right wing outlets need something to feed the base, so "woke mob cancelling" is perfect.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:09 pm

seb146 wrote:
meecrob wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

I’d question whether people who are upset were his fans to begin with or typically people jumping on the bandwagon, which is by definition cancel culture.


In his comedy set, Chappelle has a 15-20 minute bit where he discusses that the backlash he receives is typically from people who did not actually see his show, but read about it through a review in the papers or online or on twitter, and they are just repeating someone else's talking points without forming their own opinion. I think you are spot on in asking if these people are fans or bandwagon jumpers!


Can we also put into perspective the number of people who are actually offended? It's like 10. Hardly consequence culture. But, right wing outlets need something to feed the base, so "woke mob cancelling" is perfect.


On one hand, I agree. Oh the other hand, I think there is still a 20% chance Netflix will have to pull this. And there is an 80% chance they will not allow this type of thing again. The New Puritans are really on this one. It will reach Netflix corporate, it will come up at shareholder meetings in the future. Distribution deals with studios could be affected. Netflix is handling this well, but if they handle it badly? The Puritans can build power now, and use it to kill Netflix next time.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:36 pm

LCDFlight wrote:
seb146 wrote:
meecrob wrote:

In his comedy set, Chappelle has a 15-20 minute bit where he discusses that the backlash he receives is typically from people who did not actually see his show, but read about it through a review in the papers or online or on twitter, and they are just repeating someone else's talking points without forming their own opinion. I think you are spot on in asking if these people are fans or bandwagon jumpers!


Can we also put into perspective the number of people who are actually offended? It's like 10. Hardly consequence culture. But, right wing outlets need something to feed the base, so "woke mob cancelling" is perfect.


On one hand, I agree. Oh the other hand, I think there is still a 20% chance Netflix will have to pull this. And there is an 80% chance they will not allow this type of thing again. The New Puritans are really on this one. It will reach Netflix corporate, it will come up at shareholder meetings in the future. Distribution deals with studios could be affected. Netflix is handling this well, but if they handle it badly? The Puritans can build power now, and use it to kill Netflix next time.


Netflix has other, more popular content for the puritans to worry about. They have a multi-season series on the escapades of a pioneering Japanese porn director.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:22 pm

seb146 wrote:
meecrob wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

I’d question whether people who are upset were his fans to begin with or typically people jumping on the bandwagon, which is by definition cancel culture.


In his comedy set, Chappelle has a 15-20 minute bit where he discusses that the backlash he receives is typically from people who did not actually see his show, but read about it through a review in the papers or online or on twitter, and they are just repeating someone else's talking points without forming their own opinion. I think you are spot on in asking if these people are fans or bandwagon jumpers!


Can we also put into perspective the number of people who are actually offended? It's like 10. Hardly consequence culture. But, right wing outlets need something to feed the base, so "woke mob cancelling" is perfect.


OK, ok, I see where you are coming from. There is definitely an aspect of this that is being sensationalized for some rich guys to make a buck off of. There are some "less civilized" people on "my side" of the debate who are using this to grab onto their prejudices, but at least anecdotally from the people who I talk to, the issue is more "let me watch what I want to watch, and I'll extend you the same courtesy" I think the part where this issue breaks down is that some people see it as a trans issue and some that see it as a free speech issue, and trying to argue both at once will end up in spinning our wheels and a bunch of mud thrown everywhere. I'm guilty of it.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:26 pm

The most bizarre thing about this story is craven right media personalities suddenly coming to the defense of Netflix and Dave Chappelle. Truly bizarre...talk about people who would never get together. Chappelle wouldn't talk to Ben Shapiro or Laura Ingraham unless they let him dictate the discussion.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:04 pm

Aaron747 wrote:
The most bizarre thing about this story is craven right media personalities suddenly coming to the defense of Netflix and Dave Chappelle. Truly bizarre...talk about people who would never get together. Chappelle wouldn't talk to Ben Shapiro or Laura Ingraham unless they let him dictate the discussion.

Is it really that bizarre? If the Left hates something you know the Right will be there to champion it.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:05 pm

meecrob wrote:
seb146 wrote:
meecrob wrote:

In his comedy set, Chappelle has a 15-20 minute bit where he discusses that the backlash he receives is typically from people who did not actually see his show, but read about it through a review in the papers or online or on twitter, and they are just repeating someone else's talking points without forming their own opinion. I think you are spot on in asking if these people are fans or bandwagon jumpers!


Can we also put into perspective the number of people who are actually offended? It's like 10. Hardly consequence culture. But, right wing outlets need something to feed the base, so "woke mob cancelling" is perfect.


OK, ok, I see where you are coming from. There is definitely an aspect of this that is being sensationalized for some rich guys to make a buck off of. There are some "less civilized" people on "my side" of the debate who are using this to grab onto their prejudices, but at least anecdotally from the people who I talk to, the issue is more "let me watch what I want to watch, and I'll extend you the same courtesy" I think the part where this issue breaks down is that some people see it as a trans issue and some that see it as a free speech issue, and trying to argue both at once will end up in spinning our wheels and a bunch of mud thrown everywhere. I'm guilty of it.


That's where I am with this: let the trans people be offended but also let Chapelle speak. There are no winners here, but there are no losers either.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:07 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
The most bizarre thing about this story is craven right media personalities suddenly coming to the defense of Netflix and Dave Chappelle. Truly bizarre...talk about people who would never get together. Chappelle wouldn't talk to Ben Shapiro or Laura Ingraham unless they let him dictate the discussion.

Is it really that bizarre? If the Left hates something you know the Right will be there to champion it.


Explain how free speech is relevant to this? I listen to "left wing" hosts and they are not talking about this at all. I suppose you can scour the internet for some "left wing" creator no one has ever heard of who is passionate about this topic, but the main stream ones have not said anything. Maybe because they actually believe in free speech instead of "free speech only if you believe every letter of what I say"?
 
flyguy89
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:00 pm

seb146 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Aaron747 wrote:
The most bizarre thing about this story is craven right media personalities suddenly coming to the defense of Netflix and Dave Chappelle. Truly bizarre...talk about people who would never get together. Chappelle wouldn't talk to Ben Shapiro or Laura Ingraham unless they let him dictate the discussion.

Is it really that bizarre? If the Left hates something you know the Right will be there to champion it.


Explain how free speech is relevant to this? I listen to "left wing" hosts and they are not talking about this at all. I suppose you can scour the internet for some "left wing" creator no one has ever heard of who is passionate about this topic, but the main stream ones have not said anything. Maybe because they actually believe in free speech instead of "free speech only if you believe every letter of what I say"?

Are you saying there isn’t a current among the Twitterati of the Left to have the show removed? I’m confused as to what it is you’re upset about. There’s a small but vocal group trying to pressure Netflix into pulling the special. It is that to which many are opposing here.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Mon Oct 18, 2021 7:06 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Is it really that bizarre? If the Left hates something you know the Right will be there to champion it.


Explain how free speech is relevant to this? I listen to "left wing" hosts and they are not talking about this at all. I suppose you can scour the internet for some "left wing" creator no one has ever heard of who is passionate about this topic, but the main stream ones have not said anything. Maybe because they actually believe in free speech instead of "free speech only if you believe every letter of what I say"?

Are you saying there isn’t a current among the Twitterati of the Left to have the show removed? I’m confused as to what it is you’re upset about. There’s a small but vocal group trying to pressure Netflix into pulling the special. It is that to which many are opposing here.


Absolutely, and if it gets bad enough, Netflix will have to censor Dave Chappelle, who is a noted voice in comedy and on race relations. Because he's not liberal enough. He's a trans supporter, but he doesn't agree with re-defining the words man and woman. So, that's hate speech, and he has to be cancelled. Only a few voices can be allowed... special voices.
 
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ztarizona
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:38 pm

I do not advocate censorship. Unfunny people are going to sometimes produce content.

That being said - there is a distinction to make here.
I sold all my Netflix stock. It did pretty well as I was a long -termer. Ironically had been thinking of doing it for a while. The prior CEOs missteps on the physical DVD business "Qwikster" and then this 'about face' and 'equivocation' on the Chapelle issue really rubbed me the wrong way, as if Netflix still haven't figured out their 'hapless management' issue. They can post the comedy video for his fans but there is no reason they need to use my shareholder or subscriber dollars to financially bankroll and back the production of whatever this 'I'm back' (READ: I'm still relevant. LOOK AT HOW RELEVANT I AM!) splash was. And yes, the CEO is a total moron if he thinks that crude innuendos about trans people don't lead to physical violence against them or could at the very least insult his own employees. Another moron in a position of power who doesn't deserve my dollars bankrolling his bad decisions and judgements.
 
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:01 pm

I just went on twitter and a lot of this controversy is sparked by the fact that Fox "commentary" is supporting Chappelle. So basically I don't agree, but I can totally see a bunch of trans people being like "If Kellyanne Conway supports it, I'm automatically 180* to it!!" Like I get it. But its a bit more nuanced than flame-baiting, and thats what I hope this thread has allowed us to think. Like its not black and white. Free speech is a sacred thing that can be used to say things you fucking hate to hear, but to everyone who dislikes Dave Chappelle's jokes, I have to say, I hope collectively, we do not endorse the right wing bashing anyone who is different. We just wanted to hear the issues of the day, brought to us through a comedian's lens. We did not resort to Fox or other less reputable "news"organizations for our opinion on trans people. We didn't resort to Dave fucking Chappelle to make our minds up over trans people. We already made our mind up...usually..."You do you, does it affect me? No? Do what you wanna do!"
 
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seb146
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:40 pm

meecrob wrote:
I just went on twitter and a lot of this controversy is sparked by the fact that Fox "commentary" is supporting Chappelle. So basically I don't agree, but I can totally see a bunch of trans people being like "If Kellyanne Conway supports it, I'm automatically 180* to it!!" Like I get it. But its a bit more nuanced than flame-baiting, and thats what I hope this thread has allowed us to think. Like its not black and white. Free speech is a sacred thing that can be used to say things you fucking hate to hear, but to everyone who dislikes Dave Chappelle's jokes, I have to say, I hope collectively, we do not endorse the right wing bashing anyone who is different. We just wanted to hear the issues of the day, brought to us through a comedian's lens. We did not resort to Fox or other less reputable "news"organizations for our opinion on trans people. We didn't resort to Dave fucking Chappelle to make our minds up over trans people. We already made our mind up...usually..."You do you, does it affect me? No? Do what you wanna do!"


I think the right wing media blowing this up larger than it really is is what the real issue is. I am pretty sure Chapelle is an LGBTQ ally but right wing media probably wanted to hold this guy up and get clicks by talking about "the woke mob" and how Chapelle is a hero to the right and another negative for the "woke mob" and such. Right wing media simply wanted traffic and knows how to give red meat to it's base.
 
meecrob
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:01 am

I think thats the scary part of this...the "retard mob" is blowing this up into something it wouldn't normally be. We have morons watching this on fox going "Yeah! fuck dem trying to take my dick away!!" And now its fucking political! I dunno, in the last decade, everyone and their family is somehow a political expert behind a keyboard now
 
flyguy89
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:24 am

meecrob wrote:
I think thats the scary part of this...the "retard mob" is blowing this up into something it wouldn't normally be. We have morons watching this on fox going "Yeah! fuck dem trying to take my dick away!!" And now its fucking political! I dunno, in the last decade, everyone and their family is somehow a political expert behind a keyboard now

That’s more than a bit simplistic. It’s not all just Fox, there were/are numerous outlets all over the political spectrum whipping this story up.
 
vikkyvik
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:52 pm

Finally watched the special last night.

There were some pretty controversial jokes in there (many of them had nothing to do with trans people), but that's perfectly fine. Chappelle has definitely pushed the envelope more and more as his career has progressed. Really, this special was less "stand-up comedy" and more "social commentary in a humorous way".

Of course, I find his earlier stand-up funnier, but his goal has obviously shifted.

There are certainly those who will watch it and immediately say "he went too far" and not give it a second thought.

Then there are those who will watch it, and will ponder it for hours/days. I think this is probably his goal. And it worked for me - I'm still thinking about it the next morning.

I think the whole special can be summed up in what his trans friend shouted at him when he said he didn't understand her. She said (paraphrasing): "You don't need to understand me! But I'm a human being going through life!"

We all come at things from our own unique points of view, informed by our own life experiences. We certainly don't all need to understand each other. But as long as you're not trying to hurt me or change how I live my life, I'm happy to try and see you as a human being who is trying to navigate life, same as me.

The only thing I would say he really "got wrong" is when he said "gender is a fact" or whatever. Sex is a fact; gender doesn't have to be. Maybe an opportunity for him to learn, right there.
 
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alberchico
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:23 pm

https://deadline.com/2021/10/dave-chapp ... 234862068/

Dave Chapelle responds to the controversy. I like that he took a swipe at Hannah Gadsby, she had been attacking him long before this special, and to be honest, she isn't all that funny.
 
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seb146
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:42 am

alberchico wrote:
https://deadline.com/2021/10/dave-chappelle-controversy-reaction-video-trans-netflix-hannah-gadsby-1234862068/

Dave Chapelle responds to the controversy. I like that he took a swipe at Hannah Gadsby, she had been attacking him long before this special, and to be honest, she isn't all that funny.


Neither are particularly funny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuoTAkn-0DQ

but they both have opinions.

I just wonder.... Did Chapelle, early in his career, have a "relationship" with a trans woman and he is still angry about it? Because we could not have those conversations then like we can now?

Someone brought up a point on a talk show:

Chapelle saying "I have a trans friend so I can say this" is the equivalent of "I have a Black friend so I can be racist".
 
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alberchico
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:21 am

seb146 wrote:
alberchico wrote:
https://deadline.com/2021/10/dave-chappelle-controversy-reaction-video-trans-netflix-hannah-gadsby-1234862068/

Dave Chapelle responds to the controversy. I like that he took a swipe at Hannah Gadsby, she had been attacking him long before this special, and to be honest, she isn't all that funny.


Neither are particularly funny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuoTAkn-0DQ

but they both have opinions.

I just wonder.... Did Chapelle, early in his career, have a "relationship" with a trans woman and he is still angry about it? Because we could not have those conversations then like we can now?

Someone brought up a point on a talk show:

Chapelle saying "I have a trans friend so I can say this" is the equivalent of "I have a Black friend so I can be racist".


A comedians job is to poke fun at the issues of the day. Right now, trans rights issues are front page news. The truth ,in my opinion, is that there is a very small but vocal minority group of trans activists that takes any joke towards their community as a personal attack against them. The guy in my opinion, did not say anything that could be construed as hate speech or a call to violence. But yet, those were the charges many of the people protesting outside Netflix's offices were leveling at Chapelle.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:25 am

seb146 wrote:
Someone brought up a point on a talk show:

Chapelle saying "I have a trans friend so I can say this" is the equivalent of "I have a Black friend so I can be racist".


Whoever said that on the talk show does not understand sarcasm, much less how Chappelle uses it to highlight the stupidity of such statements.
 
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seb146
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:59 am

Aaron747 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Someone brought up a point on a talk show:

Chapelle saying "I have a trans friend so I can say this" is the equivalent of "I have a Black friend so I can be racist".


Whoever said that on the talk show does not understand sarcasm, much less how Chappelle uses it to highlight the stupidity of such statements.


They have a point, though. Just because you have a friend from one group does not mean you can speak for every person in that group. I have trans and non-binary friends. I can not speak for every one of them. Same with you and same with Chapelle. You and he both get that they are people with valid feelings and want to be treated as people. But only they can speak for themselves.

I, personally, have a problem with the whole "it gets better" thing that was popular a few years back. That is not my story and is not the story of many of us. I am glad they have a voice and have resources but they do not speak for me and I will not pretend to speak for them.
 
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seb146
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Wed Oct 27, 2021 4:02 am

alberchico wrote:
seb146 wrote:
alberchico wrote:
https://deadline.com/2021/10/dave-chappelle-controversy-reaction-video-trans-netflix-hannah-gadsby-1234862068/

Dave Chapelle responds to the controversy. I like that he took a swipe at Hannah Gadsby, she had been attacking him long before this special, and to be honest, she isn't all that funny.


Neither are particularly funny

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuoTAkn-0DQ

but they both have opinions.

I just wonder.... Did Chapelle, early in his career, have a "relationship" with a trans woman and he is still angry about it? Because we could not have those conversations then like we can now?

Someone brought up a point on a talk show:

Chapelle saying "I have a trans friend so I can say this" is the equivalent of "I have a Black friend so I can be racist".


A comedians job is to poke fun at the issues of the day. Right now, trans rights issues are front page news.


And one issue Hannah Gadsby spoke of is she is not a "stereotypical" lesbian that heteros are comfortable with. Long blonde hair, small, nails perfect, dress or skirt, heels... female by their standards. THAT is an issue. Guess what? Gays come in all shapes and sizes! Get over it! Don't beat them. That is what she is saying.
 
vikkyvik
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:27 pm

seb146 wrote:
I just wonder.... Did Chapelle, early in his career, have a "relationship" with a trans woman and he is still angry about it?


Outside of the fact that that is a pretty stupid question to ask (it's always been a stupid question), Chappelle seems pretty happy to me. He feels certain ways about things and doesn't apologize for it. And he makes his feelings seem way more controversial than they likely are, in the name of comedy and provoking thought.

seb146 wrote:
Chapelle saying "I have a trans friend so I can say this" is the equivalent of "I have a Black friend so I can be racist".


I'm assuming that since you don't like Chappelle's comedy, you didn't watch the show. Because that's quite clearly not what he was doing.

seb146 wrote:
They have a point, though.


They really don't, though, which they would probably realize if they actually watched the show.
 
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seb146
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:18 pm

vikkyvik wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I just wonder.... Did Chapelle, early in his career, have a "relationship" with a trans woman and he is still angry about it?


Outside of the fact that that is a pretty stupid question to ask (it's always been a stupid question), Chappelle seems pretty happy to me. He feels certain ways about things and doesn't apologize for it. And he makes his feelings seem way more controversial than they likely are, in the name of comedy and provoking thought.

seb146 wrote:
Chapelle saying "I have a trans friend so I can say this" is the equivalent of "I have a Black friend so I can be racist".


I'm assuming that since you don't like Chappelle's comedy, you didn't watch the show. Because that's quite clearly not what he was doing.

seb146 wrote:
They have a point, though.


They really don't, though, which they would probably realize if they actually watched the show.


I did not watch. I find his stand up boring and his show punching down.

https://www.vox.com/culture/22738500/da ... rsy-comedy

There are some statistics in this article about violence and suicide in the trans community and why what he has been saying is not funny.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:14 pm

seb146 wrote:
vikkyvik wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I just wonder.... Did Chapelle, early in his career, have a "relationship" with a trans woman and he is still angry about it?


Outside of the fact that that is a pretty stupid question to ask (it's always been a stupid question), Chappelle seems pretty happy to me. He feels certain ways about things and doesn't apologize for it. And he makes his feelings seem way more controversial than they likely are, in the name of comedy and provoking thought.

seb146 wrote:
Chapelle saying "I have a trans friend so I can say this" is the equivalent of "I have a Black friend so I can be racist".


I'm assuming that since you don't like Chappelle's comedy, you didn't watch the show. Because that's quite clearly not what he was doing.

seb146 wrote:
They have a point, though.


They really don't, though, which they would probably realize if they actually watched the show.


I did not watch. I find his stand up boring and his show punching down.

https://www.vox.com/culture/22738500/da ... rsy-comedy

There are some statistics in this article about violence and suicide in the trans community and why what he has been saying is not funny.


The first paragraph of the Vox piece, unsurprisingly, is completely misleading and uses loaded language about the special that indicates the writer hasn't actually seen it. Total garbage.
 
FGITD
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Re: The Netflix - Sarandos/Chappelle Issue

Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:37 pm

Love it. “I have a preconceived bias against this person and have not watched the material in question…but it’s bad and should be removed”

Chappelles comedy is meant to create discomfort. It always has been. If you want a fun family friendly evening that will leave you feeling good about yourself, go watch Jerry Seinfeld make the same airplane jokes and observational comedy from 1988 when he last updated his material.

Whether or not you agree with him, Dave has been proven right. The basic premise was that you can’t say anything remotely negative about this group without immediate outcry and attempts to cancel. Lo and behold, he says some negative things and here we are…people from that group who haven’t watched the special and don’t even like the rest of his comedy are crying out to cancel him.

Hard to disagree with one of his other comments. Everything is funny until it happens to you.

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