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johns624 wrote:It doesn't make sense. So many gun rules were broken that it's not funny. All guns are loaded...don't point your gun at anyone...no live ammo on the set, etc. etc.
lightsaber wrote:I agree with johns624, the gun rules were not followed. I like to phrase:
1. Treat every gun as if it is loaded, until you verify yourself, because they are.
2. Only point a gun at a target you intend to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you intend to fire.
4. Be certain of your backstop as that is what stops the bullets.
This shows negligence. Live ammo on a set must be tightly controlled.
Seriously, I can watch a friend clear a gun and when handed to me, I cannot stop myself from verifying load status because that is so ingrained in me.
Serious question:
Was this a bodyguard's gun?
Lightsaber
Aesma wrote:I'm reading it was a single "live round". So one shot killed one and maimed another.
casinterest wrote:Aesma wrote:I'm reading it was a single "live round". So one shot killed one and maimed another.
Yeah, I am reading now that the propmaster was not "union". There is going to be hell to pay for a lot of people.
Aesma wrote:I'm reading it was a single "live round". So one shot killed one and maimed another.
System07 wrote:Aesma wrote:I'm reading it was a single "live round". So one shot killed one and maimed another.
Do you have any article saying this? “Live” could mean a blank still. Let’s leave guessing till more details are revealed. For all we know it was a blank with something stuck in the barrel that became a projectile
The prop gun that killed “Rust” cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounded director Joel Souza on during an on-set accident on Thursday contained a “live single round,” according to an email sent by IATSE Local 44 to its membership.
Additionally, the union says that New Mexico crew members staffed the props, set decoration, special effects and construction departments on “Rust,” not its members.
“A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor, hitting both the Director of Photography, Local 600 member Halyna Hutchins, and Director Joel Souza,” the union told members. “Both were rushed to the hospital. Unfortunately, we lost Sister Hutchins who passed from the wound.”
casinterest wrote:System07 wrote:Aesma wrote:I'm reading it was a single "live round". So one shot killed one and maimed another.
Do you have any article saying this? “Live” could mean a blank still. Let’s leave guessing till more details are revealed. For all we know it was a blank with something stuck in the barrel that became a projectile
https://variety.com/2021/film/news/alec ... 235095349/The prop gun that killed “Rust” cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounded director Joel Souza on during an on-set accident on Thursday contained a “live single round,” according to an email sent by IATSE Local 44 to its membership.
Additionally, the union says that New Mexico crew members staffed the props, set decoration, special effects and construction departments on “Rust,” not its members.
“A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor, hitting both the Director of Photography, Local 600 member Halyna Hutchins, and Director Joel Souza,” the union told members. “Both were rushed to the hospital. Unfortunately, we lost Sister Hutchins who passed from the wound.”
bpatus297 wrote:lightsaber wrote:I agree with johns624, the gun rules were not followed. I like to phrase:
1. Treat every gun as if it is loaded, until you verify yourself, because they are.
2. Only point a gun at a target you intend to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you intend to fire.
4. Be certain of your backstop as that is what stops the bullets.
This shows negligence. Live ammo on a set must be tightly controlled.
Seriously, I can watch a friend clear a gun and when handed to me, I cannot stop myself from verifying load status because that is so ingrained in me.
Serious question:
Was this a bodyguard's gun?
Lightsaber
How is live ammo even allowed anywhere close to a set? Boggles my mind.
System07 wrote:Aesma wrote:I'm reading it was a single "live round". So one shot killed one and maimed another.
Do you have any article saying this? “Live” could mean a blank still. Let’s leave guessing till more details are revealed. For all we know it was a blank with something stuck in the barrel that became a projectile
Aesma wrote:A live round implies there was a bullet. If it was a live round, it was not a blank round with just powder. Small arms cartridges don't have an explosive charge, just primer and powder.System07 wrote:Aesma wrote:I'm reading it was a single "live round". So one shot killed one and maimed another.
Do you have any article saying this? “Live” could mean a blank still. Let’s leave guessing till more details are revealed. For all we know it was a blank with something stuck in the barrel that became a projectile
Here is my source : https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/o ... n-film-set
I agree that live is ambiguous as what we want to know is if there was a bullet, not an explosive charge, which is expected. Seeing the result though it's almost certain the answer is yes.
Aesma wrote:System07 wrote:Aesma wrote:I'm reading it was a single "live round". So one shot killed one and maimed another.
Do you have any article saying this? “Live” could mean a blank still. Let’s leave guessing till more details are revealed. For all we know it was a blank with something stuck in the barrel that became a projectile
Here is my source : https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/o ... n-film-set
I agree that live is ambiguous as what we want to know is if there was a bullet, not an explosive charge, which is expected. Seeing the result though it's almost certain the answer is yes.
System07 wrote:Nothing other than a bullet could have the velocity and energy to pass through and kill one person and wound another.Aesma wrote:System07 wrote:
Do you have any article saying this? “Live” could mean a blank still. Let’s leave guessing till more details are revealed. For all we know it was a blank with something stuck in the barrel that became a projectile
Here is my source : https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/o ... n-film-set
I agree that live is ambiguous as what we want to know is if there was a bullet, not an explosive charge, which is expected. Seeing the result though it's almost certain the answer is yes.
Yeah it’s really ambiguous. They keep saying “struck fatally” but not “by a bullet”. It’s just interesting. We’ll find out soon enough I’m sure. But you’re right it seems obvious there was a primer and powder but the rest is vague in my opinion
johns624 wrote:System07 wrote:Nothing other than a bullet could have the velocity and energy to pass through and kill one person and wound another.Aesma wrote:
Here is my source : https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/o ... n-film-set
I agree that live is ambiguous as what we want to know is if there was a bullet, not an explosive charge, which is expected. Seeing the result though it's almost certain the answer is yes.
Yeah it’s really ambiguous. They keep saying “struck fatally” but not “by a bullet”. It’s just interesting. We’ll find out soon enough I’m sure. But you’re right it seems obvious there was a primer and powder but the rest is vague in my opinion
lightsaber wrote:I agree with johns624, the gun rules were not followed. I like to phrase:
1. Treat every gun as if it is loaded, until you verify yourself, because they are.
2. Only point a gun at a target you intend to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you intend to fire.
4. Be certain of your backstop as that is what stops the bullets.
This shows negligence. Live ammo on a set must be tightly controlled.
Seriously, I can watch a friend clear a gun and when handed to me, I cannot stop myself from verifying load status because that is so ingrained in me.
Serious question:
Was this a bodyguard's gun?
Lightsaber
LCDFlight wrote:Not to mention that he's another antigunner who uses guns in his movies to make his money.lightsaber wrote:I agree with johns624, the gun rules were not followed. I like to phrase:
1. Treat every gun as if it is loaded, until you verify yourself, because they are.
2. Only point a gun at a target you intend to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you intend to fire.
4. Be certain of your backstop as that is what stops the bullets.
This shows negligence. Live ammo on a set must be tightly controlled.
Seriously, I can watch a friend clear a gun and when handed to me, I cannot stop myself from verifying load status because that is so ingrained in me.
Serious question:
Was this a bodyguard's gun?
Lightsaber
I find it 98% probable that neither Alec Baldwin, nor the director of photography, nor the director, had the foggiest clue about gun safety. And yet, there they were, playing with a dangerous weapon like idiots.
Baldwin is a COMPLETE idiot, which is why he was so good at playing Trump.
johns624 wrote:Not to mention that he's another antigunner who uses guns in his movies to make his money.
Aesma wrote:System07 wrote:Aesma wrote:I'm reading it was a single "live round". So one shot killed one and maimed another.
Do you have any article saying this? “Live” could mean a blank still. Let’s leave guessing till more details are revealed. For all we know it was a blank with something stuck in the barrel that became a projectile
Here is my source : https://www.theguardian.com/film/2021/o ... n-film-set
I agree that live is ambiguous as what we want to know is if there was a bullet, not an explosive charge, which is expected. Seeing the result though it's almost certain the answer is yes.
Newark727 wrote:johns624 wrote:Not to mention that he's another antigunner who uses guns in his movies to make his money.
It's difficult to imagine a scenario where Baldwin isn't at fault. That said, it didn't take you long to climb up on your hobby horse, did it? Baldwin's politics aren't at issue here - only his (very likely) failings regarding safety. I'm pretty sure pro-2A people have had negligent discharges too.
LCDFlight wrote:Newark727 wrote:johns624 wrote:Not to mention that he's another antigunner who uses guns in his movies to make his money.
It's difficult to imagine a scenario where Baldwin isn't at fault. That said, it didn't take you long to climb up on your hobby horse, did it? Baldwin's politics aren't at issue here - only his (very likely) failings regarding safety. I'm pretty sure pro-2A people have had negligent discharges too.
It’s true this is about a shooting, not about politics. But this person is a prominent voice in politics. A stupid voice. Soon, he will be preaching to us all about gun safety, as if he is now an expert.
People are going to re-evaluate Baldwin for this. The guy has always been a toxic narcissist.
LCDFlight wrote:I find it 98% probable that neither Alec Baldwin, nor the director of photography, nor the director, had the foggiest clue about gun safety. And yet, there they were, playing with a dangerous weapon like idiots.
Baldwin is a COMPLETE idiot, which is why he was so good at playing Trump.
Aesma wrote:LCDFlight wrote:I find it 98% probable that neither Alec Baldwin, nor the director of photography, nor the director, had the foggiest clue about gun safety. And yet, there they were, playing with a dangerous weapon like idiots.
Baldwin is a COMPLETE idiot, which is why he was so good at playing Trump.
Why should they know about gun safety ? It's not their job, and if it's not their hobby, then no reason to know or care.
LCDFlight wrote:lightsaber wrote:I agree with johns624, the gun rules were not followed. I like to phrase:
1. Treat every gun as if it is loaded, until you verify yourself, because they are.
2. Only point a gun at a target you intend to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you intend to fire.
4. Be certain of your backstop as that is what stops the bullets.
This shows negligence. Live ammo on a set must be tightly controlled.
Seriously, I can watch a friend clear a gun and when handed to me, I cannot stop myself from verifying load status because that is so ingrained in me.
Serious question:
Was this a bodyguard's gun?
Lightsaber
I find it 98% probable that neither Alec Baldwin, nor the director of photography, nor the director, had the foggiest clue about gun safety. And yet, there they were, playing with a dangerous weapon like idiots.
Baldwin is a COMPLETE idiot, which is why he was so good at playing Trump.
FGITD wrote:It's more expensive then using real guns with blanks. Simple as that. Maybe this incident is going to change that (insurance premiums!), but that's something only time will tell.My question is why not just digitally add the effects? No one would notice
LCDFlight wrote:
People are going to re-evaluate Baldwin for this. The guy has always been a toxic narcissist.
GalaxyFlyer wrote:As some one said, politics is for ugly people who can’t act.
Aaron747 wrote:Dime a dozen in the industry. He is to the Hollywood left what James Woods is to the right - people just obsessed with hearing their own voice.
Newark727 wrote:If you're going to handle a gun on set, you should at least get the basics - treat every gun as if it's loaded, don't point it at anything you intend to shoot at, etc. (I mean, I've never even touched a gun, and I've got those two purely from cultural osmosis.) But then again, there's a difference between knowing safety rules and following them, and plenty of people who know but don't bother to follow. Often the pertinent question is finding out why they don't.
FGITD wrote:Agree on the gun safety principles, but the problem is that this is a movie. The gun is going to be pointed at people, and handled like a prop. There’s going to be take after take after take, and time in between. If you handle the weapons with every precaution you would at a range, you’ll never see another gun in television or movies.
Hand Baldwin (or most actors) a live weapon and I pretty much guarantee he handles it with care. Give him a prop gun that he’s most likely been using for days or weeks every day while filming…and it’s a different story. From his perspective as an actor, he had no reason to believe the gun would be capable of killing someone because there’s literally an entire department that’s supposed to be committed to making sure that doesn’t happen.
But given that there had been accidental discharges previously, it begs the question…who was in charge of set safety? Because they’re the ones that failed here.
My question is why not just digitally add the effects? No one would notice
Aaron747 wrote:
The director will have at least baseline knowledge of set safety and will consult SMEs when necessary on props, staging, driving, heat/electricity - any pertinent safety items. There are literally several union propmaster and safety officer positions on any large production for then to consult with.
petertenthije wrote:FGITD wrote:It's more expensive then using real guns with blanks. Simple as that. Maybe this incident is going to change that (insurance premiums!), but that's something only time will tell.My question is why not just digitally add the effects? No one would notice
FGITD wrote:The gun is going to be pointed at people, and handled like a prop. There’s going to be take after take after take, and time in between. If you handle the weapons with every precaution you would at a range, you’ll never see another gun in television or movies.
FGITD wrote:Hand Baldwin (or most actors) a live weapon and I pretty much guarantee he handles it with care. Give him a prop gun that he’s most likely been using for days or weeks every day while filming…and it’s a different story. From his perspective as an actor, he had no reason to believe the gun would be capable of killing someone because there’s literally an entire department that’s supposed to be committed to making sure that doesn’t happen.
StarAC17 wrote:bpatus297 wrote:lightsaber wrote:I agree with johns624, the gun rules were not followed. I like to phrase:
1. Treat every gun as if it is loaded, until you verify yourself, because they are.
2. Only point a gun at a target you intend to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until you intend to fire.
4. Be certain of your backstop as that is what stops the bullets.
This shows negligence. Live ammo on a set must be tightly controlled.
Seriously, I can watch a friend clear a gun and when handed to me, I cannot stop myself from verifying load status because that is so ingrained in me.
Serious question:
Was this a bodyguard's gun?
Lightsaber
How is live ammo even allowed anywhere close to a set? Boggles my mind.
Could this be a situation where (assuming it was a pistol) that there was a magazine full of blanks and there was a live round in the chamber.
Excuse my ignorance but I know next to nothing about guns.
Still its very much gross negligence and probably involuntary manslaughter. I don't think Baldwin will go to jail for this but will likely be on probation for some time.
bpatus297 wrote:StarAC17 wrote:bpatus297 wrote:
How is live ammo even allowed anywhere close to a set? Boggles my mind.
Could this be a situation where (assuming it was a pistol) that there was a magazine full of blanks and there was a live round in the chamber.
Excuse my ignorance but I know next to nothing about guns.
Still its very much gross negligence and probably involuntary manslaughter. I don't think Baldwin will go to jail for this but will likely be on probation for some time.
Could.be the situation, but live ammo shouldn't be anywhere near the set.
I don't see Baldwin being charged with anything, he wasn't necessarily negligent, he was acting and I assume pretending to shot somwone. The prop guy on the other hand.
DIRECTFLT wrote:Warrant: Baldwin didn’t know weapon contained live round
https://apnews.com/article/entertainmen ... 06cd3cbee9
An assistant director unwittingly handed Alec Baldwin a loaded weapon and told him it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fatally shot a cinematographer, court records released Friday show. The gun was one of three that the film’s armorer, Hannah Gutierrez, had set on a cart outside the wooden structure where a scene was being acted, according to the records.
Assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds, a detective wrote in the search warrant application. “Cold gun,” the assistant director announced, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe court.
----------------------------------------
Is a "live round" an actual round, or some kind of black or dummy round?? I'm confused about the terms used in the prop business.
StarAC17 wrote:Excuse my ignorance around guns. I'm assuming this is some kind of semi-automatic pistol like a cop would carry. Could it be possible that someone took this off the set to take to say a range. Loaded it will real ammo and left one in the chamber.
DIRECTFLT wrote:Is a "live round" an actual round, or some kind of black or dummy round?? I'm confused about the terms used in the prop business.
DIRECTFLT wrote:What exactly constitutes an "accidental discharge?"
Aaron747 wrote:DIRECTFLT wrote:Warrant: Baldwin didn’t know weapon contained live round
https://apnews.com/article/entertainmen ... 06cd3cbee9
An assistant director unwittingly handed Alec Baldwin a loaded weapon and told him it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fatally shot a cinematographer, court records released Friday show. The gun was one of three that the film’s armorer, Hannah Gutierrez, had set on a cart outside the wooden structure where a scene was being acted, according to the records.
Assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds, a detective wrote in the search warrant application. “Cold gun,” the assistant director announced, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe court.
----------------------------------------
Is a "live round" an actual round, or some kind of black or dummy round?? I'm confused about the terms used in the prop business.
Not a term used in the prop business. Reading comprehension: unaware that it was loaded with live rounds, a detective wrote in the search warrant application
'Live round' in that sentence is the term used by the detective who authored the warrant.
GalaxyFlyer wrote:Hand me an open gun and verify its status, hand me closed one, be it a derringer or a howitzer, I’m gonna instinctively open it and check. What are they these amateurs?
Aesma wrote:You're in the military.
He's an actor.