I don't know where I was reading, but was reading on the fact that in the 1950s when we know lot of people were slandered as communists and the same happened with American artists who appeared on cinema too. I read Charlie Chaplin was also part of those blacklisted artists. Furthermore, I do know that in part or whole it was Senator McCarthy, who was later found for grifting and other things. But besides that, can somebody share how the artists responded and how they became politically mature. I do know that nowadays you have artists on both sides and whether you or I like it or not, that is ok. If somebody can share a link or walkthrough that journey, it will be good to know. Indian artists are going through some similar pains, atm. Any help will be welcome.

https://millercenter.org/the-presidency ... -red-scare
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist

Here are some good articles. It took Eisenhower telling officials to ignore McCarthy in official circles, and then it took years of lawsuits to put the Hollywood private society on notice that they were financially liable for lies and slander.,

One of the first instances in the modern era of a Senator using a hot-button issue to spread misinformation and grandstand. When he was defeated and disgraced, this bullheaded man became a pathetic wreck of himself, drunk at work and dying of hepatic cirrhosis. It's a major stain in an otherwise engaged and interesting political era in the first 20 years of the postwar period.

Freedom of speech and thought wasn't that important back then it seems.

Aesma wrote:

Freedom of speech and thought wasn't that important back then it seems.

MAGA

Wasn't Cliff Robertson blacklisted also? He made a comeback of sorts, IIRC, after the "red scare". Female actors did not fare as well after the "red scare" died down.

https://www.insidehook.com/article/hist ... -red-scare

Lena Horne and Gypsy Rose Lee among others.

No, I don’t think so on Robertson, no mention on Wiki. He was just a little late for it.

casinterest wrote:

https://millercenter.org/the-presidency/educational-resources/age-of-eisenhower/mcarthyism-red-scare
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist

Here are some good articles. It took Eisenhower telling officials to ignore McCarthy in official circles, and then it took years of lawsuits to put the Hollywood private society on notice that they were financially liable for lies and slander.,

Could you elaborate a bit more on the last part as I didn't understand it or maybe didn't get the nuance.

' it took years of lawsuits to put the Hollywood private society on notice that they were financially liable for lies and slander' - quote What do you mean by that, what sort of lawsuits are you talking about. If you could share a bit about that then I would get perhaps a bit more context about the same, thank you.

It was called "McCarthyism". You can read about it here.

pune wrote:

Indian artists are going through some similar pains, atm. Any help will be welcome.

The situation in India right now is more like what we saw in Mussolini's Italy and especially Nazi Germany. Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebels was effectively like the I&B minister and in charge of films and media. Actors who didnt fall in line with Nazi ideology or didnt fit the Nazi model of "ideal German" were persecuted and hounded out. Some fought back but most surrendered. German films of the 30's were all about promoting the Nazi idea of German Nationalism. Much like Canada Kumar or Ajay Devgun films in India today!

The RSS is seeking to replicate the Nazi model in India. The 3 biggest stars in India are all Khans - 2 of Pathan genetic stock and 1 of Arabic stock. And this has bugged them for long. When Hrithik Roshan's first film came out in 2000, LK Advani and Sushma Swaraj said publicly that finally Bollywood has a "Hindu" star! The shirtless (and pantless) wonder at #4 position is the son of a Malayalee Christian father and a Irish-Jewish mother. And we know what the RSS feels about people of "Abrahamic faiths". Go through the Twitter TLs of BJP MPs like Tejasvi Surya, Piyush Goyal and others.

To make it worse, 2 of the 3 Khans and the Malayalee Christian-Jew stud have married upper caste Hindu girls. The 3rd Khan is a confirmed bachelor who prefers hanging out with muscled dudes. The Nazis had problems with marriages outside of German stock. The RSS has similar problems with good Aryan girls marrying folks of "Abrahamic faiths" and polluting our Aryan genetic pool!

This is the ultimate sacrilege in their world! "Love Jihad" they call it - Christian and Muslim men seducing sweet, innocent Aryan stock girls! Why did the Fascists pick SRK as a target now? Because there is a Mannat sized hole in their Love Jihad hearts!

Arresting them or their children on frivolous charges, sending out the Income Tax/Enforcement Directorate to conduct raids are all designed to harass and intimidate the Stars to fall in line with their Fascist ideology while reinforcing Modi's "strong man" image in keeping Muslims and Christians "in line"!

I believe there is a scientific name for this syndrome that affects Fascists around the world - "Small nunnu syndrome". No cure found yet though!

While McCarthyism did have some limited effect in the US, America was largely saved because of its institutions. American judiciary and media stood up to this nonsense in the 50's just like they stood up to Trump. McCarthyism was beaten back and Trump was beaten back because America had institutions that protected their citizens from the whims of wannabe dictators.

This is in sharp contrast to what happened in India where the Judiciary and Media have surrendered to the RSS-BJP. That is why there is no hope for India making a quick recovery any time soon!

Aaron747 wrote:

One of the first instances in the modern era of a Senator using a hot-button issue to spread misinformation and grandstand. When he was defeated and disgraced, this bullheaded man became a pathetic wreck of himself, drunk at work and dying of hepatic cirrhosis. It's a major stain in an otherwise engaged and interesting political era in the first 20 years of the postwar period.

Reasonable point, but I wonder if it is correct. We think toxic political grandstanding is new now, or that muckraking journalism is new. Is it? Has anything really changed?

In McCarthy's era, there was radio, instant nationwide print, and the start of television. That changed politics. So, maybe it really it really was the start of something new, as you suggest.

I tend to think human behavior is has not changed over at least several thousand years. But technology has changed. I think social media and smartphones caused deep political and global changes that will play out over this entire century.

Aesma wrote:

Freedom of speech and thought wasn't that important back then it seems.

The Soviet Union was funding dozens of wars of revolution, and in-country movements. In the USA, many movements were funded by the USSR, such as the Weather Underground. The Soviet Union wanted to destabilize not only the USA, but the West in general. The IRA even received support from the USSR/

But this was political grandstanding to advance his own career (McCarthy) mostly, playing on current (at that time) fears. Nixon joined that bandwagon as well, and went after communists hard way before he was president.

The fear of communism at the time could easily be justified at the time. McCarthy was an over reaction to a very real threat to the United States.

For those who haven't registered this tidbit, McCarthy's right hand man during those proceedings, were later a mentor for Donald Trump. You can't make these things up.

BawliBooch wrote:

It was called "McCarthyism". You can read about it here.

pune wrote:

Indian artists are going through some similar pains, atm. Any help will be welcome.

The situation in India right now is more like what we saw in Mussolini's Italy and especially Nazi Germany. Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebels was effectively like the I&B minister and in charge of films and media. Actors who didnt fall in line with Nazi ideology or didnt fit the Nazi model of "ideal German" were persecuted and hounded out. Some fought back but most surrendered. German films of the 30's were all about promoting the Nazi idea of German Nationalism. Much like Canada Kumar or Ajay Devgun films in India today!

A similar thing is happening in the US. If you don't tout the party line and parrot what the Twitter and Facebook mob want you to say, you get de-platformed and cancelled.

Dieuwer wrote:

BawliBooch wrote:

It was called "McCarthyism". You can read about it here.

pune wrote:

Indian artists are going through some similar pains, atm. Any help will be welcome.

The situation in India right now is more like what we saw in Mussolini's Italy and especially Nazi Germany. Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebels was effectively like the I&B minister and in charge of films and media. Actors who didnt fall in line with Nazi ideology or didnt fit the Nazi model of "ideal German" were persecuted and hounded out. Some fought back but most surrendered. German films of the 30's were all about promoting the Nazi idea of German Nationalism. Much like Canada Kumar or Ajay Devgun films in India today!

A similar thing is happening in the US. If you don't tout the party line and parrot what the Twitter and Facebook mob want you to say, you get de-platformed and cancelled.

Both Facebook and Twitter has been party to RW at least in India.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-s ... 1635016354

https://i.postimg.cc/hj5w70g4/twitter-algo-RW.jpg

And now there is Facebook stories -

https://www.protocol.com/facebook-papers

It tells all there is to it.

M564038 wrote:

For those who haven't registered this tidbit, McCarthy's right hand man during those proceedings, were later a mentor for Donald Trump. You can't make these things up.

Yes, Roy Cohn was a prominent legal figure for years, not just to McCarthy and Trump.

pune wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

BawliBooch wrote:

It was called "McCarthyism". You can read about it here.



The situation in India right now is more like what we saw in Mussolini's Italy and especially Nazi Germany. Nazi propagandist Joseph Goebels was effectively like the I&B minister and in charge of films and media. Actors who didnt fall in line with Nazi ideology or didnt fit the Nazi model of "ideal German" were persecuted and hounded out. Some fought back but most surrendered. German films of the 30's were all about promoting the Nazi idea of German Nationalism. Much like Canada Kumar or Ajay Devgun films in India today!

A similar thing is happening in the US. If you don't tout the party line and parrot what the Twitter and Facebook mob want you to say, you get de-platformed and cancelled.

Both Facebook and Twitter has been party to RW at least in India.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/facebook-s ... 1635016354

https://i.postimg.cc/hj5w70g4/twitter-algo-RW.jpg

Corporations have decided to do the bidding of those in power. Whether it is Mody in India, Xi in China, or Biden in the USA.
It's called Fascism.
That's why people get cancelled or banned if they disagree with any party line.
That's why schools are indoctrinating kids with hateful racial theories.
That's why politicians gaslight everything in sight.

And then there is this -

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/2 ... ims-516997

pune wrote:

And then there is this -

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/2 ... ims-516997

I suggest you read up on the "Reichstag Fire" of Monday 27 February 1933.

I know about the 'false flag operation' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_fire It's the same thing we have been seeing in my country. And Trump was no different. I did see this -

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/22/nyre ... wsuit.html

When he was in power, he consistently lied to people. Now while suing his neice he had to admit that he didn't pay any taxes or paid something $750 in something like 14 odd years. How does it make him any different than anybody else who is corrupt ???

Dieuwer wrote:

pune wrote:

And then there is this -

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/2 ... ims-516997

I suggest you read up on the "Reichstag Fire" of Monday 27 February 1933.

Read up on why Friday the 13th is unlucky. Goes back to 1307 and Phillip the “Fair”. Gaslighting, fake news and politicians practicing envy and theft politics are part of the human condition.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

pune wrote:

And then there is this -

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/2 ... ims-516997

I suggest you read up on the "Reichstag Fire" of Monday 27 February 1933.

Read up on why Friday the 13th is unlucky. Goes back to 1307 and Phillip the “Fair”. Gaslighting, fake news and politicians practicing envy and theft politics are part of the human condition.

Of course. But nowadays it seem blatantly "in-your-face".

This is neither productive, nor will go anywhere. It is all about whataboutism and that game can be played n number of times, it doesn't result into any learning for anybody at all. Even this term came as Trump came to power. But I digress, can we go back to where I asked the answers for.

This is happening in India, neither of you gentleman above can do anything about it.

https://mattersindia.com/2021/10/cathol ... indu-idol/

Dieuwer wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

I suggest you read up on the "Reichstag Fire" of Monday 27 February 1933.

Read up on why Friday the 13th is unlucky. Goes back to 1307 and Phillip the “Fair”. Gaslighting, fake news and politicians practicing envy and theft politics are part of the human condition.

Of course. But nowadays it seem blatantly "in-your-face".

Nobody’s been put to the stake! I’d say being set alight in front of Norte Dame is pretty “in your face”.

pune wrote:

This is neither productive, nor will go anywhere. It is all about whataboutism and that game can be played n number of times, it doesn't result into any learning for anybody at all. Even this term came as Trump came to power. But I digress, can we go back to where I asked the answers for.

This is happening in India, neither of you gentleman above can do anything about it.

https://mattersindia.com/2021/10/cathol ... indu-idol/

Hardly surprising!

Ever since they gained power in 2014, the RSS has been steadily ramping up their Hindutva (fascist) agenda one notch at a time. Calibrated attacks by lynch mobs against Muslims and Christians on one hand. Attacks of places of worship like Mosques and Churches and installing idols of Hindu deities in their place and so on. In MP, A group of Indian Christians out caroling last Christmas were attacked by a RSS-Bajrang Dal mob. The State police filed cases not against the lynch mob but against the group of Christians for singing carols!

They have state power now. And the power of the state has now come down on India's minorities.

What I find surprising is how the American media has fallen silent against the excesses of the Indian regime. Perhaps out of greed of access to the Indian market?

BawliBooch wrote:

pune wrote:

This is neither productive, nor will go anywhere. It is all about whataboutism and that game can be played n number of times, it doesn't result into any learning for anybody at all. Even this term came as Trump came to power. But I digress, can we go back to where I asked the answers for.

This is happening in India, neither of you gentleman above can do anything about it.

https://mattersindia.com/2021/10/cathol ... indu-idol/

Hardly surprising!

Ever since they gained power in 2014, the RSS has been steadily ramping up their Hindutva (fascist) agenda one notch at a time. Calibrated attacks by lynch mobs against Muslims and Christians on one hand. Attacks of places of worship like Mosques and Churches and installing idols of Hindu deities in their place and so on. In MP, A group of Indian Christians out caroling last Christmas were attacked by a RSS-Bajrang Dal mob. The State police filed cases not against the lynch mob but against the group of Christians for singing carols!

They have state power now. And the power of the state has now come down on India's minorities.

What I find surprising is how the American media has fallen silent against the excesses of the Indian regime. Perhaps out of greed of access to the Indian market?

And this is when the market itself instead of growing has been contracting. They have been selling everything in the name of 'remonetization' and even screwed over RBI.

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/mo ... 837103.ece

Stats. from September 2021.

https://www.livemint.com/economy/indias ... 77407.html

And this from now hunting for a new Economic Adviser -

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 28481.html

The gentleman who left after 3 years, every couple of months was telling us green shoots are available and V recovery will happen. After 3 years of lying, had to leave the job. How much one can lie. Hence now hunt for the next liar -

In the 1930's, during the deprivations of the Great Depression, a number of actors and others in the entertainment business got involved or became members of the US version of the Communist Party as believed in a fairer economic and social life. Some also joined for food, shelter and something to be involved with. The general public was not told of the horrors of Stalin's USSR, they made sure that didn't get out, only phony propaganda phony of everyone having a job and enough food (unless from the Ukraine, etc). Many were only in the party for a short time, realizing that it wasn't an answer. Problem is that it would haunt them 15-20 years later.

After WW II, there was great anger toward the USSR as had taken Eastern Europe and forced a division of the former Nazi Germany (and its then capitol Berlin). Mao's leading China into Communist was along with the USSR seen as a threat to the USA and Western Capitalism. We needed someone to hate, an enemy to replace Nazism. Before Sen. McCarthy, others including then Senator and later US President Nixon, were on anti-communist witch hunts to get votes as being a strong anti-Communism was a winning issue. Sen. McCarthy and others turned to those in the entertainment industry as like even today, using (and abusing) celebrities gets you attention for your cause and votes. It was impossible to oppose these witch hunts, indeed the big movie studios went along with it to protect their business and in part as a few years before had been forced to divest their ownership of movie theaters in a major government anti-trust action. McCarthy and others used brutal and unethical tactics, loaded questioning to destroy people and their ability to work. Some script writers used front persons to keep making money. Some actors and directors were able to return to entertainment, sometimes into TV but too many died, took their own lives, had difficult lives due to the ugly actions of the anti-Communists politicians. Our anti-Communist policies continued all over the world, murdering political leaders, using our military, the Vietnam War, various military actions, economic sanctions to try to quash Communism and support Capitalism. This was further compounded by the Civil Rights movement and on Black persons, immigrants from other than Europe, often tied to being 'Communists'. A lot of it died off in the early 1990's as the USSR collapsed and became a country of oligarchs and a despotic society.

Even today we have 'Conservatives' who use the terms socialists or communists as a slur on a number of progressive Democrats, current President Biden and VP Harris for their political gains, yet support the obscenity of Trumpism.

And the above are the same people who would be silent about things such as these -

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/10/maga ... tmare.html

From what I know, there are now hundreds and thousands of PFOA and similar chemicals and the American EPA neither has the money nor the power to do anything about them, And just like here in India, the important questions are left behind.

This is the sort of hate that is engulfing India, and this is in my neighboring state -

https://www.vibesofindia.com/no-muslim- ... rify-area/

pune wrote:

casinterest wrote:

https://millercenter.org/the-presidency/educational-resources/age-of-eisenhower/mcarthyism-red-scare
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist

Here are some good articles. It took Eisenhower telling officials to ignore McCarthy in official circles, and then it took years of lawsuits to put the Hollywood private society on notice that they were financially liable for lies and slander.,

Could you elaborate a bit more on the last part as I didn't understand it or maybe didn't get the nuance.

' it took years of lawsuits to put the Hollywood private society on notice that they were financially liable for lies and slander' - quote What do you mean by that, what sort of lawsuits are you talking about. If you could share a bit about that then I would get perhaps a bit more context about the same, thank you.

People that get "blacklisted" do not have an easy way back , even if the practice was prejudiced. It took years of financial lawsuits to bring accountability to the parties that had blacklisted innocent people.

Some never got justice other than some of the directors started to hire them back,

It was a nasty process.

Aha, now I understood what you meant, thank you for clearing that up. This all would depend on the person's own financial and mental, emotional state of mind. If you are in the state to fight, then only you will fight, whether it is in court of law or in street. I do agree, that many might not have got justice at all. That is sadly the way world works atm.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Dieuwer wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Read up on why Friday the 13th is unlucky. Goes back to 1307 and Phillip the “Fair”. Gaslighting, fake news and politicians practicing envy and theft politics are part of the human condition.

Of course. But nowadays it seem blatantly "in-your-face".

Nobody’s been put to the stake! I’d say being set alight in front of Norte Dame is pretty “in your face”.

Touche!

Look up 2002 Gujarat violence. You can also look up what happened In Odisha just couple of years back -

https://barnabasfund.org/en/news/christ ... naxalites/

https://www.barnabastoday.com/2021/01/g ... rnt-alive/

When you start excusing murdering people of one community, than it will happen to others also. Sadly, it is the way the world works.

And this happens in India a lot more than you may think -

https://www.persecution.org/2021/07/06/ ... ten-death/

I just don't want to fill the whole thing with hate, many Indians are being made to hate both people of all religions except 'Hindutva' as they like to call it.

casinterest wrote:

People that get "blacklisted" do not have an easy way back , even if the practice was prejudiced. It took years of financial lawsuits to bring accountability to the parties that had blacklisted innocent people.

Some never got justice other than some of the directors started to hire them back,

It was a nasty process.

That is true.

To be fair to the studios though, they have a lot of money riding on each project and 100s of people to feed. A Fascist Govt takes advantage of this to put pressure on the studios to fall in line. People lower down in the chain who speak up run the risk of being blacklisted as well which is why so few speak up against this.

pune wrote:

I just don't want to fill the whole thing with hate, many Indians are being made to hate both people of all religions except 'Hindutva' as they like to call it.

Hindutva is NOT a religion.

Hinduism is our religion. Hindutva is a word first defined by ideologue Vinayak "I am Sorry" Savarkar which means Political Hinduism - an ideology that gives primacy to followers of one particular religion and exploitation/subjugation of citizens who follow Abrahamic Faiths. An ideology that defends the use of state power and terrorism to intimidate religious minorities.

A well written article on the topic -
Berkeley Forum - Hindutva and the Meaning of Modernity

It is important to educate the Western audience about this key difference. The RSS uses the lack of knowledge of Hindu religion and Sanatan Dharma to escape scrutiny and spread their vicious ideology.

There have been farmers in India (Sikhs primarily) who seem to now have been promoted to be enemies of the state. The reason, they don't want the three farm laws that is being imposed by the center. The three farm laws give all the power from A to Z in the hands of the corporates, and the independent farmer will be made powerless. So the state narrative is they are all Khalistanis and commission agents and a mixture of the two. And they tried their best using all sorts of goodaism that is possible but couldn't break farmer's unity.

A month back, a minister's son drove a car into a crowd of peaceful farmers who were protesting. This was widely known and shared with the public.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/was-at- ... se-2570158

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-2ihLpiNEY (trigger warning - it does have some violent images or can be harmful so please apply discretion.)

In U.S. when a similar incident occurred, it was classified as terrorism, but here nothing happened. The Minister son has been charged, but the Minister is occupying his chair. In other cases, not so serious, they say that the accused can influence the investigation, but here even though the father is a Minister, somehow he wouldn't influence the investigation.

The reason I shared above is another similar incident happened today itself. Seems the Govt. wants to normalize this sort of violence as well -

https://www.freepressjournal.in/viral/d ... kri-border

And now a Hindu priest calls for beheading of Christians. So much for peacefulness -

https://thewire.in/communalism/chhattis ... hate-watch

pune wrote:

And now a Hindu priest calls for beheading of Christians. So much for peacefulness -

https://thewire.in/communalism/chhattis ... hate-watch

What would we do without religion? It’s just here to help…